Slashdot Mirror
Super Strength Substance Approaching Human Trials
kkleiner writes "You may remember Liam Hoekstra, the baby apparently born without the myostatin gene, and consequently sporting 40% more skeletal muscle than his peers. Using gene therapy, NCH scientists have been able to get follistatin (a myostatin blocker) to promote phenomenal muscle growth in macaque monkeys. NCH is now working with the FDA to perform the preliminary steps necessary for a human clinical trial. Is this the prelude to a super-strength gene therapy for all of us?"
Is this the prelude to a super-strength gene therapy for all of us?
No, the clinical trials will begin but one of the test subjects will realize that they are now stronger than his fellow man and the only thing keeping him a cut above the rest is the drug. So he (or she, both sexes are equally evil) will taint the other subjects' follistatin with cyanide, killing them all. Then the super villain transformation into The Sinister Strength will be complete and they will emerge from the carnage at the clinic to hoard all the remaining follistatin. We have only one hope, that our hero Liam Hoekstra arrives on the scene early enough to put an end to The Sinister Strength ... refresh Slashdot next week to find out.
My work here is dung.
Well damn, now no one will buy my super mutants if they can be one :(.
>MadDoc
-1 is for flame bait and trolls, not because you disagree with someone.
My dwarves are going to be 100% more terrified when the monkeys have super strength!
This is my reaction too. Also, what is the cost of having to maintain all these muscles? Do you have to eat more than the normal person? Do you lose all your fine motor control?
The human is the best animal in the brain department. Why don't they try to improve what we're good at? Why compete with the Gorilla?
No, not all of us.
Just soldiers and government agents.
Technoli
If you thought the German swimmers looked like men during the 80's and 90's just wait till this kicks for human use.
first off, you would have 40% more muscle with no effort. The ladies will be a callin'
Second off, you cold intimidate someone else to lift the DB server
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
It could cure obesity: more muscles increases your resting metabolic rate. Just increase muscle mass to the point where your digestive tract is overwhelmed, and you start burning fat, no matter what you eat. Kind of like the movie "thinner", but this one would be called "muscular". That brings up interesting questions about what happens when your musculo-skeletal system and your nervous system start fighting for calories. The stereotypical big dumb guy? And isn't this gene therapy, where one shot changes your DNA for life? Culturally, this will hit the fitness industry like a bombshell. Billions are spent annually on looking "ripped". Here's the real deal. Pretty soon, you won't get laid without it.
We would need to eat a lot more than the normal human needs to.
The diet of the average American should just about cover it.
Technoli
so is this the new diet drug? Americans already take in too many calories, it would be very trans-human and very cool if we just altered our muscle mass instead of shrinking our calorie intake.
We have a world food distribution/shortage problem as it is. Imagine SUPER STRONG STARVING Humans.
http://www.ashtreehill.com/the-hungry.html
Often wrong but never in doubt.
I am Jack9.
Everyone knows me.
Muscle burns more energy than fat, both at rest and during physical activity.
An effective oral myostatic blocker would enable a lot of people to reduce their body fat levels with minimal lifestyle change.
For those who are severely obese, this would be a godsend since for many of them they weigh so much and have such small muscle mass that physical activity can be dangerous.
You can't legislate goodness. Let each to his own destiny, by will of his freely made choices.
The human is the best animal in the brain department
Which we are using to (attempt to) become better than everything at everything.
upon the advice of my lawyer, i have no sig at this time
For some reason I was really hoping to see some pictures of buff Monkeys.
Take what ye can. Give nothing back!
Pretty soon, you won't get laid without it. I think I speak for many slashdotters when I ask, "how is that any different from my current situation?"
I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
I would imagine that this would be incredibly useful to those with muscle wasting diseases.
Sigs are too short to say anything truly profound so read the above post instead.
The same thing we do every night Pinky; try to take over the World!
May the Maths Be with you!
I would guess the researchers are interested in the multi-billion-dollar weight-lifting supplement market.
There...
THL phish sticks
Seems like there is probably a reason we have myostatin and if you disable it, other health problems may result. We're just don't know what they are yet.
Further, it seems like the people most interested in taking this drug would be bodybuilders who already have a low body fat percentage...they have little fat to burn and now this reduces the ability to metabolize their muscle tissue. I could foresee that a small medical problem involving the digestive tract could turn into a complete crisis if they cannot get the energy they need to fight an infection from their own tissues when they need it most.
Hoekstra SMASH!!!!
Science advances one funeral at a time- Max Planck
And astronauts: the muscular atrophy they experience at zero gee is quite profound, and is a real risk to extended space station or possible Mars missions.
Seriously, if we had soldiers that were 40% stronger, that would be a huge advantage. They could carry more gear, or more powerful weapons, and be considerably more effective than "normal" soldiers. The Air Force already has done trials on drugs that allow pilots to stay awake for days without side effect(a little tangent here - I'm surprised IT departments have not done this yet for Admins and programmers). You have got to think the Army and Marines would be VERY interested in this if it is viable.
One group of people that might take advantage of this treatment would be the elderly. Diminishing muscle mass is a major issue. I use to joke about my Mother-In-Law being mean enough to hunt Bear with a Switch; some how that doesn't seem funny any more.
No need to guess, from TFA:
"The National Children's Hospital interest in myostatin is not to create super strong children, but to help those children whose muscles have already atrophied. Muscular Dystrophy (MD) affects thousands of children in the US who slowly lose muscle and rarely survive into adulthood. Follistatin gene therapy could serve as a method to extend their lives or perhaps even reverse the symptoms of their conditions. Likewise, the eldery are susceptible to several diseases that lead to a loss of muscle strength and coordination. By blocking myostatin, we may all be able to live with the strength of our youth even as we age into our 80s."
I'm sure you're right, but I'll bet the main commercial application will be found in super-meaty chickens and cows.
While true that muscle burns more calories at rest and that a more heavier, more muscular person needs more calories than a lighter, thinner person I think most slashdotters are overestimating the effects. I mean the little hulk kid is growing too. All toddlers eat like little monsters. Anyway, a pound of muscle at rest burns 35 to 50 calories a day, so up to 500 calories for ten pounds of new muscle per day. So lets do some quick math. The average American male is made up of about 42% skeletal muscle, which at 185 lbs that is roughly 75 pounds of muscle. If you increase the muscle mass by 40% (Yes, I RTFA) that is about 30 lbs of new muscle. Pretty awesome when you think about it, but that still only burns an extra 1500 calories a day max. Most Americans overeat that amount anyway. I don't think anyone would be starving, they would just be harder and fitter. A big mac has over 500 calories to put that into perspective.
I think a more interesting question is what do you do if this is readily available, cheap and easy to use? Would you do it? What if you are an active amateur cyclist working your way up the local ranks? They guys are gonna love you coming in with your extra 30 lbs of muscle and storm by them up the local hill. Do we start over with all the record books? This isn't exactly roids but it isn't exactly a tough training plan that you earned your fitness with either.
It is not enough to succeed, others must fail. - Gore Vidal
How the apes got the upper hand.
If you could reason with religious people, there would be no religious people
When everyone is super - no one will be.
-ted
That's true but unfortunately you would probably have to eat a lot more protein. The diet of the average American is heavily weighted towards sugars, fats and starches since that's what our overdeveloped brains tell us we need. So we have naturally used those brains to develop mechanized agriculture that can produce those foods most efficiently. This has basically turned us into highly-intelligent blobs.
"I assumed blithely that there were no elves out there in the darkness"
And if this promotes muscle growth where it is used most, most of us Slashdotters will end up with just one Superhuman Arm.
"Hello, I am the Mega-Baiter!!"
Disclaimer: I am married, so my arms would remain the same, but my wife would (through associated absorption) develop some massive jaw and tongue muscles......
I love her....
How amazed would you be to suddenly find that you just forgot what I wrote and you needed to reread my post.... again.
For endurance sports, I suspect your performance is limited by your bodies ability to remove lactic acid from your system, in which case having 40% more muscle mass wouldn't help -- there would be 40% more lactic acid. For pure strength sports such as weightlifting this would be an advantage -- up until your muscles become strong enough to break your own bones or tear your own tendons. For body builders, using this would be a no-brainer. I've always advocated that, like snowmobile racing, all sports should have "unmodified" classes where enhancements are banned and "supermodified" classes where anything goes. Get caught doping, you (and your records) just get automatically moved into the supermod class.
I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
... until the joint and bone strengthening pills are also available.
To a Lisp hacker, XML is S-expressions in drag.
Are you entirely sure about that? I've been home a couple of weeks from a trip to a country with a much healthier diet than that of the USA, and I've been craving their food (mostly vegetables, beans, and wholeish grains) ever since I got back.
Only poor people would be weak any more... especially considering that 20 micrograms cost $200 or so: http://www.biotangusa.com/bt/product.php?productid=1424
My blog. Good stuff (when I remember to update it). Read it.
Funny? Yes, but it's actually insightful / informative. God, I think this post just made us aware that we need to improve the mod system to more accurately reflect a post's content......
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." ~Thomas Jefferson
beans, grains = sugar/starch
The reason you crave those foods over our refined foods is that your body detected that that form of sugar/starch also contained more vitamins and was tastier.
Here's an executive summary as it seems few people read the article before posting:
1. Gene therapy increases muscle development
2. It is speculated that this will decrease life span because lung capacity is not increased to match the heightened oxygen requirements.
3. As such it will probably not be commercially available.
4. It will be used mainly to treat kids with MD and old people with degenerative muscle disorder (read: people who would die without it).
5. It also has use in the livestock industry as the animals are not only super-meaty but also super-lean.
6. Whether or not the military will use it to make super soldiers ala Fallout even though it might kill them early depends on your particular political leanings.
I hope this is helpful.
One of the details I recall from the story and discussion about super-baby was that if there was a way to make this happen in normal people, that it would be a bad idea because there is a limit to the amount of muscular growth possible and would result in a premature exhaustion of that potential. And I don't recall what the consensus actually was on the effects it could have on bone development and maintenance, but I can't imagine it would be good either.
The body is the way it is for good reasons. You can thank "god" for it or you can thank evolutionary forces. Whatever the case, I can't imagine that this is a favorable mutation to induce.
On the other hand, if it helps muscular dystrophy kids, I'm completely for it being tested on humans.
Big muscles used to be considered undesirable, since they were an indication of low social status. If it gets cheap and commonplace to get big muscles, they'll go out of fashion again. Their value as a signal is that they require dedication, time, and resources.
My career in the Army left me with a damaged back and knees, making it difficult for me to engage in meaningful exercise (or even stand for more than fifteen minutes). Among other complications, like joint stability, this also leave me fighting to control my weight.
Anything that can give me a leg-up on overcoming these problems would be welcome.
Regards;
Yeah, the problem is that now you would need to bring home two tonnes of groceries.
Laissez lire, et laissez danser; ces deux amusements ne feront jamais de mal au monde. - Voltaire
Bingo, this exactly. If this drug hit the mainstream, we'd end up with a couple billion ripped, status-obsessed douchebags. Some would begin spiking their hair and frosting the tips. It'd be like Jersey guidos, but worldwide. (In other words, it would be Hell on Earth.)
End result: Women stop liking big muscles. Slashdotters become the most desirable men on the planet. Cowboy Neal ends up on the cover of "Playgirl". Geeks begin outbreeding other social groups. They ultimately inherit the Earth.
I, for one, welcome the very brief reign of our muscly overlords.
Just because you named your computer does not make it your wife, and I don't even want to know what you consider to be its jaw and tongue muscles. This drug will not work on your computer.
Those already exist, just google "belgium cows".
Conceptually the thing as the kid, cows born without the gene so they basically are giant masses of muscle.
Yours never shuts up either, eh?
Ah, the old 'lactic acid' canard. Lactic acid as a cause of muscle fatigue was debunked years ago. Get with the program people.
http://www.mensfitness.com/fitness/203
Lactic acid does not cause muscle fatigue.
"How It Started: Research conducted nearly 100 years ago (on frog muscles, no less) suggested that lactic-acid levels within muscles increased with fatigue.
The Truth: "Lactic acid increases with fatigue because it's fueling your muscle contractions," says Chad Waterbury, a strength coach in Los Angeles. It causes the painful burning sensation in your muscles that makes you want to stop lifting, but your liver is also converting lactic acid into more energy, so it's actually helping to offset fatigue. Muscle fatigue is prompted by an accumulation of protons within the muscles, which is caused by the breakdown of glycogen, the stored carbohydrate that helps to fuel exercise."
In one study, animal muscles were injected with lactic acid and actually performed longer with less fatigue, thoroughly and forever debunking the idea.
Fat people mostly have quite a bit of muscle in the legs and lower torso, because they have been building it moving their mass around, even if they are not very active. They don't tend towards muscle in the upper torso and arms. Going on a diet to lose weight usually results in loss of both fat and muscle mass. I've seem a few cases where a fat person managed to lose weight mostly by exercise, and it can be remarkable - i.e. a sedentary 260 lb. middle aged woman who could do 320 on the leg press machine from her first day at the gym. She didn't have a lot of endurance, dexterity, or upper body strength when she started, but legs? Yeah, she had those, and after eight months, she was down to 180, and could leg press over twice her weight, and kick higher than her head. I hope she's kept up with it since I saw her last, but even in the still chunky range, I'd estimate she was seriously lethal with those kicks if she ever needed to be.
Who is John Cabal?
Ligaments will usually thicken up if you use the muscles, but there's a lag of about 4 to 9 months. The point where a ligament attaches to bone actually has to gain cross sectional area more than the rest of the ligament does. That will grow in most young adults, and probably grow somewhat even in older persons with the right exercise. Jack Lalanne claimed ligament growth eventually caught up even for people who started serious exercise in their 70's. So, my guess would be that this treatment could put people in a temporarily vulnerable zone, but with good sports medicine, that risk would be reasonable and eventually pass. Incidentally, there's some evidence even bone will thicken to match after about 2 to 3 years with the same exercise load. That's been reported by some bodybuilders including Frank Zane and Aaahnold, but is still controversial.
Who is John Cabal?
My research focuses almost exclusively on muscular dystrophy(MD) and I can tell you, with near certainty, that this approach will not help these patients. The problem with MD is that the whole regenerative process breaks down. Follistatin only acts within the framework of normal muscle regeneration. The problem is that these kids exhaust their normal regeneration abilities at an early age.
Muscle has remarkable regenerative potential due to a population of muscle stem cells. Follistatin enhances the regenerative response of these cells. The problem with MD is that these cells lose their regenerative potential as these patients approach adulthood. Instead of differentiating into muscle tissue, muscle stem cells turn into fibrotic scar tissue. These patients don't need an exaggerated stem cell response, they need something that promotes the normal regenerative process. On that front, therapies that antagonize TGF signalling are showing far more promise.
So your argument boils down to "I worked hard and now there's an easy solution, it should be banned to make me feel superior."? I guess your really hate that using a computer no longer requires programming knowledge as well?
Also, what about the kid who grew up with parents who fed him/her shitty fast food every day and by the time he/she was old enough to realize it was the crappy diet turning him/her into a fatty he/she was already at that point where exercise was a lot harder than it would've been for someone who grew up in a family where mommy and daddy made sure they ate only healthy food, where monday, wednesday, friday and weekends were "hockey practice days" or "soccer practice days", where daddy would stand by the side of the rink screaming at them to perform better? How is the latter not an "unfair" advantage compared in regard to physical fitness?
/Mikael
Greylisting is to SMTP as NAT is to IPv4
In order to work, the spacecraft needs a radius of rotation of at least tens of meters, otherwise the term "vomit comet" gets a whole new meaning. You also need some way to keep the thing balanced as people move around. Finally, all that rotation induces stress on the structure, so it needs to be thicker and heavier to withstand it.
In other words: not anytime soon.
Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.
I'm probably not explaining my thought process very well. Here's another shot at it...
Have you ever seen the episode of Futurama where Fry starts dating a Lucy Liu robot? They show an educational film titled "Don't Date Robots!" that explains if you could just hook up with a beautiful robot woman all day who didn't care what you looked like, what your personality was like, how smart or successful you were, or what your hygiene habits were like, you wouldn't be motivated to ever do anything else. Hell, if I could be a fat slob and buy myself a pair of Carmen Electra robots who didn't care if I brushed my teeth or not, I'd be one happy guy. When things that used to take effort to achieve are suddenly handed out, people become lazy and sedentary.
I know that's probably very abstract, I hope I'm getting my point across effectively.
Hard work is good, effort is good, trying to succeed and surpass is good. Expecting others to figure out solutions for you to avoid all of this is bad. But that's just my opinion.
Name...That...Autocomplete!
Well also consider this. What happens when everyone is either nice and skinny or super ripped? Our human nature is still to be competitive, so there will be plenty of us still striving to be physically better than the guy standing next to you. When does it end?
Another possibility is that when/if it becomes easy for anyone to be healthy and fit it will no longer be a major source of "competition" and people will focus on other factors (although the initial reaction will probably be that some people will take the fitness thing too far in order to outdo everyone else).
Your argument about how children are raised is pretty weak. There was always junk food available in my home growing up, and I turned out fine. My brothers on the other hand are morbidly obese. I chose to ask my parents to let me play ice hockey, and they did. Several players from my team came from the forceful parents who only served healthy food types of homes, and they all turned into fat slobs when they left for college. I know dozens of people who were terribly fat as children, and made the conscious choice to change themselves for the better. It's all about personal choice once you become an adult. Blaming your parents for making you fat once you've passed the age of 25 is complete and utter BS.
No, it's not weak. Research has shown that obese children are a lot more likely to end up as obese adults, and a lot of obese children are obese because of their parents (what five year-old knows enough about nutrition to understand that candy bars are unhealthy if no one tells him/her this?).
And an individual with parents who made him/her stay fit up to age 18 has a "running start" compared to someone who was always "that fat kid", staying fit is a lot easier than becoming fit, so most likely there are lots of fat people out there who are a lot more motivated and try a lot harder to get into shape than you think, especially compared to those who were basically forced to stay super-fit by parents dreaming of their child becoming a world-class athlete.
I suppose I just don't like the idea of fat, lazy people sitting around thinking "Oh I can have another dozen donuts, it's ok, smart scientists will figure out a way to make me skinny." It's like not working because you know you can get welfare from the taxes of the people who do.
The "oh I can just get welfare" attitude is a lot less common than you think, and it's not like most of those with that attitude started out with it, from what I've seen it's something that comes with the 100th or so rejected job application, people just give up and say "fuck it, if no one wants me to work then I'll just sit here and watch TV".
/Mikael
Greylisting is to SMTP as NAT is to IPv4
Likewise, the eldery are susceptible to several diseases that lead to a loss of muscle strength and coordination. By blocking myostatin, we may all be able to live with the strength of our youth even as we age into our 80s."
Get off my lawn or I'll THROW you off!
I am anarch of all I survey.
A better question would be: what about your tendons and all the other moving parts? Having super strong muscles doesn't do you a whole lot of good if your tendons can't support the extra load. Imagine shoving a heavy-duty diesel engine into a Honda Civic. The extra power is only useful until it starts to rip apart the chassis.
The article also stated that Liam had to have a lot of protien, which makes sense if you are building excess muscle mass. Unfortunately your dream of converting Big Macs to bulging biceps is only 1/2 complete unless you can get extra beef rather than special sauce as part of your calorie intake. Empty calories alone probably aren't going to work.
Now then, your Whopper with a Protein Shake rather than that chocolate shake may do the trick.
Beefcake. BeefCake! BEEEEEEF CAKE!
- Sig
Syndrome used technology, but his tech could be easily compared to this therapy.
His classic line delivered to Mr. Incredible seems most appropriate here: "...and when everyone is 'Super'... No-one will be."
It seems that once this is widely available, it won't really matter all that much as everyone will be 'Super'. We'll end up right back where we started, only more muscly.
Actually, what concerns me more is that we have become so good at making nutrient dense food that even if we completely stop producing myostatin we will STILL have Obese people. Just really strong Obese people.
Official Heretic from the "Church of Global Warming". Proven right thanks to whistle blowers. AGW = Flat Earth Theory
don't move it... just smash it.. until it fits in one space...
Who is general failure, and why is he reading my hard drive?
I hope mass-production never becomes available to normal people.
Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see it available for people with a legitimate medical need. I would just hate to see just anyone get things.
I'm probably going to get modded flamebait for this one, but here goes...
I work hard to make everything in my house. I practice carpentry and woodworking every day. I choose how I spend my time very carefully, and I don't give in when I'd rather do something else, like work on my physique. I have earned the right to live the way I do.
Far, far too many people in this country just want something for nothing. They want the instant fix without any hard work, and this isn't limited to having nice furniture. The idea that someone could pop down to a store and suddenly have their home look like a their furniture was made by a master craftsman makes me angry. It's like those damn "do it yourself kits" you see everywhere. When the day finally comes that a "do it yourself kit" can actually be assembled into really nice furniture, I'll be furious.
Maybe I'm being too critical, but my opinion boils down to this: If you work hard at something, you deserve to reap the benefits. If you do not work hard at something, you deserve nothing.
Some bring out the best in others, some the worst. Some bring out far more.