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Music While Programming?

BubbaDoom writes "In our cubicle-ville, we have programmers intermixed with accounting, customer support and marketing. As programmers, it is our habit to put on our headphones and listen to our portable music players to drown out all of the noise from everyone else. The boss recently sent an email just to the programmers demanding that we do not use our music players at work because he thinks it distracts us from our jobs and causes us to make mistakes. Of course, we've explained to him that prattle from the other people is much, much more distracting, but he insists his policy is the right one. What is the Slashdot community's experience with music at work for programmers?"

124 of 1,019 comments (clear)

  1. Programming without music? by javaguy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Without music at work there won't be any more programmers, the issue will be moot

    1. Re:Programming without music? by otravi · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Working without music is fine, as long as there isn't any noise to avert your concentration. The easiest way to solve this little issue it just go to work with a pair of earmuffs. Your argument for using them should be obvious.

    2. Re:Programming without music? by beelsebob · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Surprisingly insightful comment... If you don't like the terms imposed upon you by your boss, you have very little choice.

      1) Agree to his terms and get on with your job
      1a) (in parallel) search for a new job.
      2) When he complains that you're code quality has gone down in a review say "yeh, I can't concentrate without music to drown out the noise, can we change that policy please".
      3) Leave the company to your now found new job.
      4) ...
      5) Profit.

    3. Re:Programming without music? by meerling · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Too much silence if even more distracting for some people, myself included.

      Music makes good background, and can be easily tuned out.
      On the other hand, conversations are something I can't help but respond to, especially when it's a question.
      Even worse, a questions of a technical nature regarding computers.

    4. Re:Programming without music? by sg_oneill · · Score: 5, Insightful

      This attitude sucks, "If you dont like it, then get another job" roughly paraphrased.

      Bullshit.

      People seem to forget that without workers, the value of a company is nothing. Trying to hand-wave away problems on the premise stated above forgets that the most socially valuable part of a business isn't the product, nor is it the employer or shareholders, but the employees , the value they bring to society and the fair reward they get for their labor.

      We SHOULD be discussing what makes a pleasant workplace, because the fair alternative is we all stop working.

      But that isn't going to happen.

      My alternative: Bosses: If you don't like the employees simple requests that make the day pleasant and productive, [i]get the hell out of business and hand management over to someone who will[/i].

      Putting up with injustice , even by just walking away , makes you complicit in that injustice.

      --
      Excuse the Unicode crap in my posts. That's an apostrophe, and slashdot is busted.
    5. Re:Programming without music? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      By walking away you are in no way "putting up with injustice".

      As you rightly point out, employees are the most valuable part of a business... You are punishing them, by removing a valued employee. This is the way capitalism (should) work, the companies compete for employees, if they don't offer good terms, they don't get them. Through this process, the terms on offer improve.

      As I said above, you can quite reasonably approach your boss and say "hey, this really isn't making my day either pleasant or productive... change it, or I'll go". If he doesn't, then do the right thing, and punish him for it.

    6. Re:Programming without music? by nvivo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Working without music is fine, as long as there isn't any noise to avert your concentration.

      That may work for you, but not for me. I MUST listen to something when I'm doing something serious. And by that I mean that project I really enjoy working on, that code I want finish. Otherwise I can't concentrate. For regular boring work, I don't mind silence... but I tend to forget about the rest of the world easier when I don't hear the sound of phones, keyboards, people talking...And silence won't help. I tend to keep remembering guitar solos during the day that if I don't listen to then I guarantee I won't be able to focus enough to do something really good.

      Different people focus in different ways. This manager is just crazy to think he will see any good outcome from this. The only thing that will happen is he will get a lot of unsatisfied employees and less work done.

    7. Re:Programming without music? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Maybe you were DISTRACTED by the MUSIC.

    8. Re:Programming without music? by manicb · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Of course this affects everyone differently. (I'm an engineer, not a programmer, but much the same issues should apply.) I actually can't really 'tune out' music any more: maybe I could in the past, but since I started writing and producing in my spare time I can't help but analyse EVERY piece of music I hear. Regardless of its actual merit. One long day of working in a lab with Radio 1 on in the background pretty much made me hate the world. Even at my desk where I can listen to my own choice of music, I only listen to music if doing something repetitive and mundane - I can't solve problems when I'm thinking about how well the bass part fits around the drums. It's a bit of a curse: similarly, I know enough about the art of magic that I don't enjoy bad magicians any more, but enjoy the good ones all the more!

      That said, I think I can make my own decisions about what will distract me and what won't, and be responsible for the quality of my work. Some people will be more distracted than they think - I guess the danger is that it's difficult to tell if this is the cause of somebody's poor productivity. Tricky one.

    9. Re:Programming without music? by zippthorne · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I would avoid making any ultimatums. The problem with ultimatums is that you have to follow through, and that puts the other party in charge of your actions.

      --
      Can you be Even More Awesome?!
    10. Re:Programming without music? by andi75 · · Score: 4, Funny

      If you're unhappy with your boss, you can always go to his boss and complain.

      And if your boss is the company's owner, then you'll have to go to his wife to complain.

    11. Re:Programming without music? by b4dc0d3r · · Score: 2, Interesting

      To paraphrase my AC post elsewhere, let the employer choose if they want to keep you. If they want unhappy employees they can make that choice.

      It doesn't give the employer power over you. You can choose to continue working there or quit. If you work there without complaining, that's when you give the company power over you. If you complain, or quit, or do anything else other than simply follow orders, you are taking charge. Giving an ultimatum gives the employer warning that they can choose, while quitting is kind of a passive-aggressive way of dealing with it. Quitting just allows management to say it was a personality conflict, and the new guy will be fine, so no need to change things. High numbers of quitters (attrition) will raise eyebrows, but not until long after you're gone.

      Given the above, the only reasonable response is an ultimatum. You need to change things, so let me know if you're going to, or if I'm going to have to leave.

      The only down side is giving warning like this gives them a heads up to avoid having you on the layoff list, because contesting unemployment benefits is a lot easier with someone who doesn't want to work there anyway. So it isn't a bargaining chip - it's potentially a life-changing declaration.

    12. Re:Programming without music? by supernova_hq · · Score: 3, Interesting

      As someone with moderate OCD, I can tell you that silence is one of the most disrupting things I can endure.

      Moderate silence, such as you would find in an empty office building, is full of small, repetitive noises and visuals such as fans, air conditioning, blinking router lights, analog (face) clocks ticking, etc. To this day I am unable to work, concentrate, watch television or even sleep in the same room as an analog clock that ticks. Even if the ticking is so faint you can barely hear it.

      Complete silence (isolation room quiet) is a little better, but at that volume I start counting my own hearbeats, breathing, the number of times my teeth touch each other. As many people here can probably contest, the smallest things can cause the biggest distraction. I can hear a CRT television (as rare as they may be now-a-days) turn on through 3 walls and a server clicking from a floor away.

      I have found that some music, particularly "house" or "trance" music (without vocals) to be very calming by covering up those subtle distractions while not supplying a new one. The only thing I have EVER found to be more effective than music is a real water fountain. I have tried simulated and even recorded water, but only real water (my previous workplace co-worker had a real miniature one on a table) will work.

      Not everyone fits the general results of a widespread "experimental study" and the sooner people start to both understand their own bodies and more importantly the fact that not everyone's is equal, the sooner we can get some real work done.


      If a boss ever told me to not use my headphones because they distract me, I would ask him to first turn off the AC, heating and the noisy computer next door that is clicking.

    13. Re:Programming without music? by paganizer · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Sort of different, sort of similar.
      I was working doing CAD at a place called Campbell-Rhea in the mid 80's. My habit at the time was when i got to work, I would grab a bottle of Pepsi from the machine in the breakroom, go to my cube, and review what I had to do for the day, what I did yesterday, while sipping Pepsi.
      One day, the owner was walking by in the hall as I was walking out of the breakroom, trying to dodge the various people grabbing their morning coffee; when I got to my cube, my department head told me the boss wanted to see me. went to his office, and he started asking why I was taking a break before I even got to work. I told him that I didn't like coffee, so unlike everyone else, I grabbed a Pepsi when I first got in.
      long story short, Coffee was perfectly acceptable 1st thing at the job drink, but soft drinks were only for breaks.
      I was still sort of caffeine shy, and very confused; I kept thinking he was trying to haze me in some way, so i tried to get him to explain it.
      10 minutes after I walked into his office, he was nice enough to give me the option of quitting, or being fired.
      BTW, I was his fastest, most accurate CAD guy out of 7. got a raise 2 weeks before this for productivity.
      The Moral: The Boss is the Boss. sometimes they do stupid shit. either live with it, or leave.

      --
      Why, yes, I AM a Pagan Libertarian.
    14. Re:Programming without music? by Ash+Vince · · Score: 4, Insightful

      On the other hand, conversations are something I can't help but respond to, especially when it's a question.
      Even worse, a questions of a technical nature regarding computers.

      Learn to concentrate, its a valuable skill. I know it is incredibly hard at first, but it can be done. The first step is to not respond unless someone asks you a direct question. If someone in your vicinity just asks a general question, then ignore them and carry on with your work. You might have already been distracted and listened to the question, but this is the first step and you have to not answer. This is about breaking the habit of responding to things you do not need to and the first bit is the hardest. Once you start viewing these things as annoying distractions from your work rather than welcome distractions you will find blocking them out easy.

      I used to always be the first to answer the phone in our team, and the first to answer general questions to the room. Nowadays you can ask me a direct question and I can still tune it out and not actually hear what you said if I was not looking at you right at the start. It is truly amazing how nice it is to be able to just block out all background noise unless I want to hear it. It also helps you tollerate annoying co-workers much more easily, you simply forget they are next to you in no time.

      As to original topic of programmers all being forced to not wear headphones, that is just something we all have to deal with. There are so many development houses where this is not allowed that you just have to deal with it unless you are going to spend your entire life at one company under one boss (not realistic). I suppose you could always ask the question at the end of an interview but that might come across as a little bit petty.

      I personally would never like to work for a cubicle style company where there is no interpersonal contact. I like being able to talk to another human being occasionally. Sometimes when a colleague talks to me, i have to politely say I really need to concentrate, but sometimes it is nice to spend a few seconds reminding myself that I am a human being not a coding machine. The recommendation for people working in front of computers all day long is that you do take regular breaks and stand up periodically so why not also walk across to one of you colleagues who also looks like he is doing the same thing and have a quick conversation.

      --
      I dont read /. to RTFA, I read /. to offend people in ignorance.
    15. Re:Programming without music? by awyeah · · Score: 4, Insightful

      What AC is saying - let me say it a little differently - is that labor can be thought of as a market, just like the market for beer, the market for butter, and the market for whatever product or service your company produces. We'll call it the "labor market."

      I'm going to over-simplify this, but hopefully not to the point where it no longer applies ;) Also, anyone more well-versed in economics, feel free to jump in here.

      There are a lot of companies that produce butter that goes on your grocer's shelf. They're all in competition for your business - they all want you, the butter consumer, to buy their butter, and not anybody else's, because that's how they will make more money. stay in business, and succeed in the market place. How do they do it? They sell their product at the highest price the consumers are willing to pay - although they may try to undercut their competitors' prices. And they try to make a better product than their competitor (or at least convince the consumer that their product is better).

      If you think of the labor market in those terms, it's easy to see. Think of your career as if you're competing in a market. Your product is code, and you get paid per unit of time. Your competitors are other laborers, and your consumers are companies that pay for your time and code. The difference here, IMO, is that you want not only to produce better "product" than your competitors and make as much money as you can doing it, but you also want to have all the "perks" and benefits that you can. At least, that's what it is for me - money is important, but it's not everything.

      And one of the biggest "perks" I can think of is to be able to do your job in whatever manner you please - within reason (no nude programming in your cube, nobody wants to see that) - assuming you're outputting the quality of work that's expected of you.

      I think you should try to have the policy changed, first and foremost. I don't think it's appropriate or professional to just quit immediately over something like this. It's not like it's some kind of human rights violation.

      If you do decide to leave, I don't think you should flat out say "change it or I'll go" - you'll have more luck if you're more tactful about it.

      Ultimately it's up to you to decide whether you want your company's business or not.

      --
      Why, no, I haven't meta-moderated lately. Thanks for asking!
    16. Re:Programming without music? by MrNaz · · Score: 5, Insightful

      While I can accept that music would be less distracting that office chatter, I simply don't understand the concept that music is better than silence. I can work with music, but if I need to concentrate on something intensely, like a complex coding problem or making decisions based on a large amount of data, I need silence.

      I blame life in a modern city causing people to hardly ever hear silence, which makes them uncomfortable with it. I grew up on a small country town, and silence was just something I got used to when walking in the bush or playing in the yard. Even traffic noise was not present. I remember finding the constant sound of cars going past when we moved to the city to be a novelty, and soon an annoyance for many years after moving to the city. To this day, 22 years later, I still find my trips to the country a relief from the sensory barrage that is life in a city.

      --
      I hate printers.
    17. Re:Programming without music? by JWSmythe · · Score: 4, Informative

          I've used music at work. Sometimes I've left my headphones on with no music, since they're noise cancelling. It just depends on what mood I'm in. Either way, it removes my outside distractions, and I can focus on my work, rather than idle conversation around me, and random noises. Sometimes, even the noise cancelling headphones by themselves aren't enough to keep the outside distractions away.

          Myself, I listen to a good bit of techno/electronica. Something decent and repetitive keeps my rhythm going. But sometimes I listen to classic rock, because I already know all the words and there are no surprises. With the electronica, people have noticed that I type and move (mouse movements, etc) to the rhythm. I guess years of marching band did something for me. :) I can sit for hours on end without stopping with the proper audio environment.

          I was told at one place that people knew not to bother me if my headphones were on, because I was concentrating. That was an added bonus. I could work solid on what I needed to, without people coming up asking for a one-off unscheduled task. They'd put it through the normal scheduling channels, so I could take it in turn with all my other tasks.

      --
      Serious? Seriousness is well above my pay grade.
    18. Re:Programming without music? by Kreigaffe · · Score: 5, Informative

      Hahaha.. you're suggesting that you confront your boss with evidence that he made a wrong decision, and that that evidence is your poor work? That might work, but more likely your boss will see "My policy is working, and this jagoff is sandbagging and throwing a tantrum to get his way, so I'll just have a talk about his dropping work quality and tell him we're concerned about his future with the company if it continues. I AM FUCKING GOD HERE!!"!1!!"

      yeah, bosses be crazy, yo.

      --
      ... still waiting for this free-as-in-beer free beer I keep hearing about. :|
    19. Re:Programming without music? by WuphonsReach · · Score: 4, Insightful

      While I can accept that music would be less distracting that office chatter, I simply don't understand the concept that music is better than silence. I can work with music, but if I need to concentrate on something intensely, like a complex coding problem or making decisions based on a large amount of data, I need silence.

      Music without vocals is a lot easier to concentrate to. It also needs to be non-novel, where you've listened to it enough that it is familiar to the brain.

      My personal favorite for getting into the zone is either pure classical symphonies or 1-2 hour long dance (house/techno/etc) mixes (sans vocals). Because the pieces last for at least 45 minutes before switching to another track/style, you can get deep into the flow with music that is familiar.

      (It's why I categorize my dance tracks by vocal / no-vocal along with approximate energy level of low/med/hi.)

      --
      Wolde you bothe eate your cake, and have your cake?
    20. Re:Programming without music? by nine-times · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I hesitate to acknowledge something like this as "injustice". Not allowing employees to listen to music is a dumb policy, but it's not really persecution.

      Not that it's not important. I think that you could trace some of our social and economic problems back to our latent view as employers/executives as creatures of massive genius who must be coddled and rewarded at every turn, but common employees as tools. There's even a bit of an assumption that workers are all lazy and stupid, since "if they were smart and hardworking, they'd have someone working for them!" Still, even when employees are viewed as good, hard workers, there's still the viewpoint that they're no more than tools to be used and manipulated by master craftsmen (the craftsmen being employers and executives).

      This sort of viewpoint adds to a sense of entitlement among the rich and successful, and it also is used to justify a million small abuses of power.

    21. Re:Programming without music? by patiodragon · · Score: 4, Funny

      "While I can accept that music would be less distracting that office chatter, I simply don't understand the concept that music is better than silence."

      Dude, you have not heard the voices inside my head. Otherwise, you would see clearly the point being made.

      BTW, here's my fave: http://somafm.com/

    22. Re:Programming without music? by rah1420 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I've used music at work. Sometimes I've left my headphones on with no music, since they're noise cancelling.

      In our office they got us all Plantronics phone headsets. It ain't music, but I can put them on, take the phone off the hook (and hit 'Goodbye' so it goes back on-hook again) and work in relative silence, and everyone thinks I'm on a conference call.

      I don't need music, I just need to blank out the ladies in the next cube talking while they're working.

      --
      Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens.
    23. Re:Programming without music? by nulldaemon · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I would avoid making any ultimatums. The problem with ultimatums is that you have to follow through, and that puts the other party in charge of your actions.

      It's not very often that I read something which, as simple and obvious as it may be, makes me feel wiser for having read it. Thank you.

    24. Re:Programming without music? by tomhudson · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Too much silence if even more distracting for some people, myself included.

      That depends on how used to silence you are, silence being a rarity today.

      So what we need to do is

      1. get rid of cubicle farms.
      2. give people doors to their offices
      3. have management get a clue as to how to measure performance, rather than thinking "warm body sitting in chair that I can see" when I walk around the office

      Then again, if they were able to implement #3, most of us could work from home, saving fuel, energy, office space, time, our sanity ...

    25. Re:Programming without music? by Ash+Vince · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You have to remember programming involves quite a bit of personal thought and some people are more efficient when there is a stability in terms of ambient sound.

      And you have to remember that if you are going to do something professionally for 30 years you are sometimes going to have to do it in conditions that are not your ideal. The people who do best are the people who can maintain long term productivity regardless of the office next door having builders in, the person who normally answers the phone is off sick and you still have to get the project out the door as a team.

      I know you might prefer to listen to music, but remember that is only a preference. If it becomes an essential part of your daily routine then you are not doing yourself any favours.

      --
      I dont read /. to RTFA, I read /. to offend people in ignorance.
    26. Re:Programming without music? by cayenne8 · · Score: 2, Interesting
      "While I can accept that music would be less distracting that office chatter, I simply don't understand the concept that music is better than silence. I can work with music, but if I need to concentrate on something intensely, like a complex coding problem or making decisions based on a large amount of data, I need silence."

      I guess it has to do with everyone's brain being wired differently.

      Personally, I can hardly get anything done in silence, hell, I can't even get to sleep easily at night without something in the background. I go to sleep with my tv on as my 'nightlight'...it is at a low level, and I set the timer to turn off in about 1.5 hours. I drop right off to sleep it if it on, but, will toss and turn usually taking longer to crash in a totally dark room that is quiet.

      I've almost always been this way, even in school, especially cramming for tests in college, I had to have my CD's playing in the background and/or the tv on. I would load up the changer with 6 disks....and it would play and I'd study...tapping my pen while reading, studying and writing...and a few hours later, I'd pause and notice the room had gotten quiet, and go throw more music on. Often if not music, the tv was on....if I had a quiet room with no distractions, I'd find my mind would wander from the task at hand...I'd start daydreaming or doodling or finding something else to do like learning to juggle (literally happened).

      While I'm not quite as bad that way at work any more as I've gotten a bit older, it still goes with work. Heck, in years past, I used to joke that the reason people working around me wore headphones was because "I" did not...hehe...I prefer to play through speakers, it makes it easier for me to concentrate than with earphones in/on. I currently don't have speakers at work (hey, they used to give them out and I used them)...but, now I use my iPods...and have a pair of the high end Shure earphones I use. It helps me tune out things....even the phone ringing, which is nice...I can just periodically check the messages on the phone, get it done at once, and then go back to uninterrupted work.

      I find people interrupting my concentration is the biggest distraction....I mean, I'm social and I love to talk with co-workers, and find it hard not to stop and join in when I hear interesting topics (which is most anything with me). I have to plug up and tune out to avoid that...

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    27. Re:Programming without music? by pdp1144 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I've been doing SA work for 15 years. Only once did I see a director realize a decision was dumb and reverse it. Fire your boss and get out of there.

    28. Re:Programming without music? by Mr.+Freeman · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "While I can accept that music would be less distracting that office chatter, I simply don't understand the concept that music is better than silence. I can work with music, but if I need to concentrate on something intensely, like a complex coding problem or making decisions based on a large amount of data, I need silence."

      Well, you answered your own confusion. YOU are comfortable with silence. OTHER people are not. It's not a big mystery.

      --
      -1 disagree is not a modifier for a reason. -1 troll, flaimbait, redundant, overrated are NOT acceptable substitutes.
    29. Re:Programming without music? by Hognoxious · · Score: 2, Funny

      have management get a clue

      You were doing so well until that point...

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    30. Re:Programming without music? by naz404 · · Score: 4, Funny

      I find that coding/hacking becomes more awesome while listening to techno music. It is essential when you are trying to pwn Gibson Supercomputers.

    31. Re:Programming without music? by easyTree · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I've found the second half of this to be persuasive in the past:
        * http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000068.html

      --
      Here's the trouble. We all know that knowledge workers work best by getting into "flow", also known as being "in the zone", where they are fully concentrated on their work and fully tuned out of their environment. They lose track of time and produce great stuff through absolute concentration. This is when they get all of their productive work done. Writers, programmers, scientists, and even basketball players will tell you about being in the zone.

      The trouble is, getting into "the zone" is not easy. When you try to measure it, it looks like it takes an average of 15 minutes to start working at maximum productivity. Sometimes, if you're tired or have already done a lot of creative work that day, you just can't get into the zone and you spend the rest of your work day fiddling around, reading the web, playing Tetris.

      The other trouble is that it's so easy to get knocked out of the zone. Noise, phone calls, going out for lunch, having to drive 5 minutes to Starbucks for coffee, and interruptions by coworkers -- ESPECIALLY interruptions by coworkers -- all knock you out of the zone. If you take a 1 minute interruption by a coworker asking you a question, and this knocks out your concentration enough that it takes you half an hour to get productive again, your overall productivity is in serious trouble. If you're in a noisy bullpen environment like the type that caffinated dotcoms love to create, with marketing guys screaming on the phone next to programmers, your productivity will plunge as knowledge workers get interrupted time after time and never get into the zone.

      With programmers, it's especially hard. Productivity depends on being able to juggle a lot of little details in short term memory all at once. Any kind of interruption can cause these details to come crashing down. When you resume work, you can't remember any of the details (like local variable names you were using, or where you were up to in implementing that search algorithm) and you have to keep looking these things up, which slows you down a lot until you get back up to speed.

      Here's the simple algebra. Let's say (as the evidence seems to suggest) that if we interrupt a programmer, even for a minute, we're really blowing away 15 minutes of productivity. For this example, lets put two programmers, Jeff and Mutt, in open cubicles next to each other in a standard Dilbert veal-fattening farm. Mutt can't remember the name of the Unicode version of the strcpy function. He could look it up, which takes 30 seconds, or he could ask Jeff, which takes 15 seconds. Since he's sitting right next to Jeff, he asks Jeff. Jeff gets distracted and loses 15 minutes of productivity (to save Mutt 15 seconds).

      Now let's move them into separate offices with walls and doors. Now when Mutt can't remember the name of that function, he could look it up, which still takes 30 seconds, or he could ask Jeff, which now takes 45 seconds and involves standing up (not an easy task given the average physical fitness of programmers!). So he looks it up. So now Mutt loses 30 seconds of productivity, but we save 15 minutes for Jeff.

      Anyway, I fully expect that most of you, reading this, will write to say, "what the heck are you doing reading Upside anyway? You get what you deserve". How true. Serves me right.
      --

    32. Re:Programming without music? by bzipitidoo · · Score: 2, Informative

      I'd take a softer line. Don't quit, at least until you have another job lined up, and until you see how your boss handles a tiny bit of low grade defiance. Just ignore the directive and keep listening to music. Dare the boss to fire you if he's that anal about it, and be prepared in case that does happen. More often the boss will growl and froth and foam about insubordination, maybe make a few threats, and finally, grudgingly let the issue drop, without admitting that he let it drop or was in any way wrong. If you reach this point, DON'T rub it in, heck don't even so much as remind anyone that you made the boss back down, and don't start feeling like you can push him around on a host of other issues. And you still have to watch your back. If the Man shows by his behavior that he won't forgive and forget, that he continues to feel humiliation and anger and won't get over it, then, yes, time to move on.

      --
      Intellectual Property is a monopolistic, selfish, and defective concept. It is "tyranny over the mind of man"
    33. Re:Programming without music? by HeronBlademaster · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Music without vocals is a lot easier to concentrate to. It also needs to be non-novel, where you've listened to it enough that it is familiar to the brain.

      Agreed. I tend to listen to video game soundtracks (usually C&C: Red Alert and Total Annihilation) or sometimes the Star Wars or Lord of the Rings movie soundtracks.

    34. Re:Programming without music? by Machtyn · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It does depend on the situation. I'm not going to give my employer the heads up that I'm looking, because they'll likely kick me out the door the same day (unwise on their part, but it has been the way they've done this kind of thing.) And, while there are jobs out there, the job market is not that great for job seekers (there are more of them at the moment than there are jobs.)

      In any case, I want to have a backup plan before I jump ship, or indicate that I'm standing at the edge.

    35. Re:Programming without music? by Bozzio · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I'm glad I'm not the only one!

      I found a few years ago that VG soundtracks were the best coding music for me. It makes sense, though, since VG music is by design not meant to grab your attention but to be a pleasant background layer.

      --
      I just pooped your party.
    36. Re:Programming without music? by Corporate+Troll · · Score: 2, Interesting

      no nude programming in your cube, nobody wants to see that

      Why not? If it's that what makes you productive it's only benefit to the company... That's real Free Market.

      If you're the best, you can get away with many things. Back a few years, I witnessed a (female) customer kneeling down to my supervisor and begging him to fix a bug. I turned around and said: "David, this is your chance to get a blowjob". Oh, sure she became a red like a tomato... Nothing ever happened to me. Seriously.... Falling on your knees before a coworker isn't professional either. But from the talks I heard, what really happened is that she raised some shit and she went nowhere because I was too good to be fired.

      Rememeber: if you're good at what you do, you can get away with anything on the workplace.... You just need to know first you're good, that's the tricky part.

    37. Re:Programming without music? by martin-boundary · · Score: 3, Funny

      And blowjobs. I find blowjobs help, too. But guns to the temple don't help. I find that guns to the temple just make me nervous. YMMV.

    38. Re:Programming without music? by Lord+Kano · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I would avoid making any ultimatums. The problem with ultimatums is that you have to follow through, and that puts the other party in charge of your actions.

      I kind of agree with this, but at the same time if you are looking to leave your job because of an assholeish decision on the part of management, some other party is in charge of your actions too. I'm currently seeking new employment because the owner where I work is all about doing it her way without any consideration of how it affects the little people that work for her. I haven't made an ultimatum, but nonetheless my actions are influenced by someone else's decisions.

      When I get a job offer that I decide to take, I'll put in my notice and if they care enough to ask why I'll explain.

      LK

      --
      "Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
    39. Re:Programming without music? by lazybeam · · Score: 2

      di.fm is my friend.

      --
      --
      no sig for you. come back one year.
    40. Re:Programming without music? by cayenne8 · · Score: 2, Funny
      "How is it to talk to another human? It's been so long that I can't remember."

      Well, you kind of have to talk to them if you wanna get laid any.

      I mean, as much as I long for the good old days when you could just pick out the one you wanted, club her over the head, drag her back and do your thing...today, that will likely land you in jail.

      So, yeah, in this say in age, you really do have to talk to people...you now have to use your tongue as the metaphorical 'club' to hit them over the head with so you can get laid without getting arrested.

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
  2. Answer by KefabiMe · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Your boss is a retard.

  3. Ah, good by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 3, Interesting
    I like working in a nice quiet office where I don't have to listen to the noise leak out of someone else's tinny speakers. It is especially irritating when the person in question has a questionable taste in music. Makes me put on my own headphones, and those give me an earache after a couple of hours. Plus, I run out of music to listen to. I just plain don't like listening to music while working, and I don't like listening to your music, either. I suppose this makes me a obviously wrong and evil person.

    Yeah, sure your headphones don't leak, but other people's do. And I'm not running around buying headphones for everyone. Why should I change, they're the ones who suck!

    --
    Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
    1. Re:Ah, good by Bigbutt · · Score: 3, Insightful

      How do you feel about listening to sales calls and marketing speak when you're programming?

      [John]

      --
      Shit better not happen!
  4. track the difference by Cederic · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Find a way to measure relative productivity, and relative error rates, for before and after you had to stop using music.

    Use objective facts to show your boss what a twat he is.

    1. Re:track the difference by AmiMoJo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Or just start goofing off right now and watch productivity nose-dive, then blame it all on not having your tunes.

      Why bother gathering scientific data when your boss clearly hasn't. This is classic boss behaviour - trying to justify his existence by imposing rules that make it look like he is improving things. The only way to communicate with him is through productivity stats.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
  5. office space by wmaker · · Score: 3, Funny

    MILTON I, I told Bill that if Sandra's going to listen to her headphones while she' working, I can listen to the radio while I'm collating - MILTON I enjoy listening to the radio at a reasonable volume from nine to eleven.

  6. Re:Fire your boss for overstepping his authority by synthesizerpatel · · Score: 2, Informative

    Actually, your boss has the right to tell you what you can or can't listen to at work. More importantly, if your boss doesn't want you to do something -- it's not a matter of raging against the machine for your 'human rights'. Either you can perform your job to your superiors' requirements or you can't. If you work somewhere that says what you can or can't listen to, odds are the path that led you there wasn't a happy one to begin with.

    You have no right to listen to music, just as you have no privacy in your email.. When someone's paying you to be somewhere to do something -- you do it to their (legal) specifications or they can fire you for not performing. Happily never had that situation myself, but.. in this economy you'd have to be insane to pick a fight over something this trivial.

    Do what olden times people did, whistle. If people complain, _whistle in your mind_.

  7. Other reason by mseeger · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I am pretty sure, that the official reason is not the real reason. My best guess is that other employees have complained about the privilege of the programmers (listening music while working). Since your boss knows that giving this reason would create dissent, he has choosen the quality issue as official reason. That is the reason why discussing the pretended reason will not make him change his mind. I have seen this happening a hundred times... humans are so petty. CU, Martin

    1. Re:Other reason by darf · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I need mod points. I predict there is a 99.95% chance that mseeger is spot on. This was the first thing I thought of. For those of you who think "The Man" is just a control freak - he probably couldn't care less if you wear headphones or stuffed bananas in your ears. All he cares about is productivity and his bonus and probably not in that order. If some weenie in another cube is bitching that they can't listen to music because they are tied to a phone and "it's unfair, whaaaaaa" then he'll do whatever he thinks will create the least friction in getting his bonus. Apparently dealing with your programming group bitching about not being able to listen to music is the path of less frustration.

    2. Re:Other reason by cffrost · · Score: 4, Funny

      If "fairness" is the real reason, or if the policy is "no headphones," then just bring in a boom box so everyone can enjoy the music.

      --
      Thank you, Edward Snowden.

      "Arguments from authority are worthless." —Carl Sagan
    3. Re:Other reason by mseeger · · Score: 2, Funny

      You're right, but this is Spaaaartaaa ... i mean the real world.

    4. Re:Other reason by mseeger · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Sometimes frustration is included in all choices the menu offers. This is why the term "lesser of two evils" was invented. The boss may even hate his own decision but perhaps he just ran out of alternatives. There is still the chance that he was just plain stupid, but from the amount of information available, i would not place any money on that bet.

  8. my experience by yanyan · · Score: 2, Interesting

    My experience with listening to music at the workplace has been more positive than negative. Only one employer (NEC) actively prohibited listening to personal music, while others allowed it. One other employer in particular (Epson) even had music streamed non-stop over a PA. (Granted, when management realized more people were listening to personal players instead, they discontinued the use of the PA.)

  9. you're always going to have noise by squidgit · · Score: 2, Interesting

    surely you're going to code better if what ever you do hear is pleasing to you.. Throw in a pair of noise-cancelling headphones so you can have the music on whisper-quiet and you're set.

  10. Re:music as a distraction? depends by Undead+NDR · · Score: 3, Interesting

    music is also a distraction; you should be thinking about the problems and coding rather than focusing on the deep beats of the music

    That just depends on how much you concentrate on the music: if you really listen to it, it can be distracting. If you merely hear it, that shouldn't be detrimental.

    Personally, I find the best music to code to - if any - is either ambient music or "smooth jazz", genres that are mostly made for staying in the background and not claiming too much attention.

  11. Constant Noise by adamchou · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I've heard bosses and professors before say that if you're listening to music, then you're not 100% focusing on your studying/work. In an environment where its perfectly silent, then I can see how music can be distracting. However, most of us work in an office where there are cubicles with people within earshot talking about work or talking to other people on the phone. The problem with that is that people talking is very erratic. Pitch and volume changes unpredictably and those unpredictable changes suddenly distract me from my work. On the other hand, the music I have playing is, for the most part, music that I've heard numerous times. On top of that, there's a consistent "flow" to the music. It drowns out the distracting random noise and provides some constant noise that lets me focus on my work.

    1. Re:Constant Noise by adamchou · · Score: 2, Interesting

      A human being CAN NOT EVER focus 100% on a single thing for a prolonged time!

      A list of people that concentrate 100% for a prolonged period of time (4 hours at a time)... because their lives count on it.

      But apparently, you are very far from knowing how to use it.

      I don't know how you came to that conclusion. Your rant was all over the place. It didn't even seem like you could focus on one concept in just writing a single post

    2. Re:Constant Noise by Jesus_666 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Exactly. Very repetitive music that covers much of the spectrum can be seen as a more enjoyable form of pink noise. The effect is to mask all other sounds you receive and to create an environment where no aural cues interrupt your attention. Once your brain has realized it's not going to receive interesting data from your ears it stops wasting focus on interpreting it.

      There are very good reasons why people would need this. The "uniform noise environment" point has already been made. One poster noted that tinnitus sufferers need some kind of aural stimulus or they get hit by a distracting high-pitched squeal. Then there's a condition called hyperacusis - the sufferer is overly sensitive to sound, being easily distracted or perceiving sound as too loud earlier than most. A variant of this makes it hard to ignore any sound, even quiet ones - they automatically command the sufferer's attention. You can imagine what this does to the sufferer's concentration when someone nearby talks.

      Developers need to dedicate as much mental capacity as possible to a given task, especially since they need to keep many different bits of information in their head at any time. This makes noise insulation a good idea. Noise-dampening headphones (in-ear phones or the big earmuff-types) can reduce reasonable external noise to a point where music or white noise at a sane volume will completely cancel most of it.

      If music privileges are to be taken away, I recommend issuing passive noise-canceling gear to focus-oriented workers or installing pink noise generators to provide at least some form of noise suppression.

      --
      USE HOT GRITS WITH STATUE OF NATALIE PORTMAN (NAKED AND PETRIFIED)
  12. insists he is right? by X0563511 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I think you should man up and tell your boss that no, he is NOT correct. I think any given person is usually in a better position to know what distracts them.

    --
    For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
  13. I can't work with music by slim · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I like music, and when it's on, I can't help but listen to it. That means that while music is playing, I can't concentrate on reading a book, let alone write code. This applies to all but the most ambient styles of music. And a drone doesn't help me work either. If I thought all programmers were like me, I'd ban headphones too.

    But, we're all different, and I know some people do their best work when zoned out behind their headphones.

    It sounds like this management decision comes from someone who doesn't realise how much people vary.

    It would make sense to provide programmers with an environment where they can escape prattle when they need to, as well.

  14. Micromanagement by nahdude812 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    For your boss to try to dictate how you work like this is a form of micromanagement which demonstrates distrust.

    Brush up your resume, in my experience managers who act in this fashion tend to get worse, not better. Working there is going to be an exercise in frustration. That said, a company is wholly within its rights to expect something like this of you. But by doing so they make themselves less competitive and attractive. Maybe they can get away with that for now, but in doing so they're destroying loyalty and directly contributing to a Dead Sea Effect - when the economy picks up the decent developers are going to evaporate, and the company will be left with a brackish collection of sub-par developers.

    As to the original question, I find that the right music selection can really help with my code quality and speed. If I'm really ramped up on what I'm working on, a good fast paced techno, industrial, or otherwise highly rhythmic repetitious and fast paced music can contribute to a mental wave to surf. If I feel like my project pace is overly frenetic, there are too many expectations, and there's just really no way I'll meet all the obligations in the time allowed, something slow and soothing can bring down the blood pressure levels and let me concentrate on my work better.

    1. Re:Micromanagement by Skapare · · Score: 3, Interesting

      It would be even better if every programmer sent out their updated resumes, and those that can find jobs coordinated their start dates for maximum impact. It might send an important message.

      Where I work, we still have a couple openings for Java, Python, and/or C++ programmers. Programming experience counts well for lack of the exact language experience. Search skills, like figuring out how to get the resume to me, counts well, too.

      --
      now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
  15. Foam earplugs by jdigriz · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Ask him if foam earplugs (nonmusical, just noise-dampening) are acceptable. I know music helps achieve flow state, but even the reduction in noise level might help somewhat. This is a good test also, if he says no to foam earplugs then you know it wasn't really about the music. And it may penetrate his pointy-haired mind that the surrounding noise level is really a problem.

  16. Earplugs by javax · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I never had any problems regarding this issue. What might be a solution is to use earplugs. A colleague of mine uses earplugs when he is doing "serious" work (as he says) and he seems to do just fine. It's just a little bit funny that you have to ask him everything twice, as he won't hear it the first time and first has to remove the earplugs -- ad you don't know beforehand if he is currently wearing his earplugs as you can't see them (at least not from two meters away). The earplugs have the psychological advantage of making other people disrupt you less often: It takes some time till you remove the earplugs and they have to ask their question twice, so they think twice if the effort of this is worth the answer -- Dummy-questions good-bye!

    1. Re:Earplugs by denalione · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Earplugs give me a headache. Music is as distracting as the accounting group sitting all around me. What saved me were white noise mp3s. I put on noise reducing headphones and pipe ocean or rain sounds through them. My productivity went way up. At the end of the day I wasn't completely wiped from trying to focus on my work so I was able to have a social life. I am also much less irritable during the day.

      Many people have auditory processing and other disorders that cause them to react strongly to distracting noises.

      In the end it should be up the to profession programmer to decide what makes him most productive.

      Your manager is an idiot.

  17. be constructive by obarthelemy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I assume, since he's a boss, that he has a private office ? If that's the case, offer him to come do some cerebral, non-social work (not on the phone, more like writing a report or something) for a half day in one of your cubicles, and judge for himself if he really thinks he wouldn't have worked better being isolated from the chatter.

    Stress out to him that it's not like you're buying 10 new CDs a day and listening intently to them while on the company's time, but just whiting out very distracting noises so that you can focus on your job.

    Show him how you come to work with your music already chosen, and spend 0 time on it (I can spend hours building a playlist :-p )

    Be careful to NOT discuss music with you coworkers for a while, nor visit any music sites...

    Try and find examples of companies that he will judge well-run (not geeky nerdy ones, more in his frame of reference - Google, MS... don't count) that do allow music for programmers.

    If all that doesn't work, try and work out an agreed playlist / music genre, or just wear earplugs/muffs ? That would suck, though.

    --
    The Cloud - because you don't care if your apps and data are up in the air.
    1. Re:be constructive by petes_PoV · · Score: 2, Insightful

      People don't have offices for quiet environments. They have offices either as a status symbol or as a means of controlling access to themselves - either because they are dealing in confidential matters that the drones should not see/hear or in order to reduce the number of interruptions.

      --
      politicians are like babies' nappies: they should both be changed regularly and for the same reasons
    2. Re:be constructive by mopower70 · · Score: 5, Funny

      I assume, since he's a boss, that he has a private office ? If that's the case, offer him to come do some cerebral, non-social work (not on the phone, more like writing a report or something) for a half day in one of your cubicles, and judge for himself if he really thinks he wouldn't have worked better being isolated from the chatter.

      No kidding! My company refused to move me until I made the facilities woman come over and stand in my cube and listen to Chatty McSnotsucker gabbing about her latest cleansing diet and the quality of her shits when the laxatives kick in, all the while trying to clear her sinuses from a chronic post-nasal drip evidently made of horse-glue. She lasted three minutes before she left my cube gagging. I got my transfer.

  18. Well, don't listen... by StupiderThanYou · · Score: 3, Funny

    ...sing. Loudly.

  19. Re:Def better with music by DangerFace · · Score: 5, Insightful

    While I agree that music is much less annoying than the noise of other people trying to get their jobs done, sometimes when I'm coding alone in my house I need to crank some Aphex Twin or other discordant mentalism just for a base level of distraction - I find if 10% of my mind is trying not to get distracted it helps the other 90% just get on with the job in hand.

    I suppose it's sort of like chewing gum or fiddling with stationary - there's just a bit of your mind dedicated to looking out for tigers, and if you're confident there are no tigers in your office you need to give it something else to do.

  20. Music is a stimulator by tomatensaft · · Score: 2, Interesting

    When working with music on, I've found that whatever the style of music I listen to (from ambient to afrobeat to folk rock to heavy metal), it tends to put me into a trance-like state, where I am able to do good designing or a lot of routine coding work, or debugging, which makes me much more productive. But what I've also noticed is that every kind of music sets a different working rhythm, so different kinds of programming work need a different type of music for the best results.

    Nice ambient, lounge, trance for example, tend to be somewhat good for designing and implementing new stuff, or cracking hard debugging issues (i.e. they stimulate abstract thinking and imagination). Hard rock, afrobeat, drum'n'bass make it easier doing some routine coding (I mean, coding which is routine) and simple routine debugging and testing, increasing your raw productivity.

    I have also found, that just putting on big noise-cancelling headphones decreases the amount of effort needed to concentrate, while still allowing you to quickly respond to anyone asking you about anything. This is detrimental though, since closed earphones tend to make your ears more susceptible to catching cold, when you're using such headphones too much, something I have found out myself the hard way.

  21. How to spell incompetent ... by whpsh · · Score: 2, Insightful

    When a manager is intimidated by his/her direct reports, they often focus on trivial and insignificant issues. It allows them to boost their egos while exerting their dominance over you without actually making the wrong decision on things that are actually important. And, unless you work for the military, there is a very heavy line drawn between what a manager can and can't tell you to do if it isn't already in your employee handbook. A vegetarian boss couldn't make all his/her employees eat only vegetables at work, the same can be applied to music. Particularly in this case where you've got a tradition of acceptance and so long as it doesn't interfere with anyone's work. You could also throw a passive strike and have everyone call in sick during crunch/deadline time. But that would require a solidarity that most IT folks don't share (unfortunately, as an IT union would rule the world, literally, in about 24 hours).

  22. I can't work with music, but I can work with noise by Tei · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I have programmed drunk, with not enough sleep, in my dreams (thats code that always run but is written in the most volatile material), angry, happy, hot, ...everything. I have programmed in enviroments with HEAVY noise around, not problem. But I can't work with music, and much less with radio of people talking. My mind is distracted by sound (information) that has a message. To be honest, I like programming in the night, with zero sounds. I like the silence much more than music.

    --

    -Woof woof woof!

  23. Headphones & Music by Phlatline_ATL · · Score: 2, Interesting

    My position on this is that the manager is a troll and is a control freak.

    I listen to a very large collection of music & podcasts at work.

    If I had a manager actually state that as a position with the particular environs you mentioned I would be demanding a number of things:
    1) segregation of the programmers to a more isolated area
    2) segregation of anyone who is in sales to a basement office with sound proofing
    3) scientific studies that the manager in question was not beaten up and stuffed in lockers in high school

    Now while much of what I'm writing above may be construed as flame bait, I just posit it for laughs.

    Seriously though, music and/or podcasts are some of the mechanisms I was using to deal with either utter silence (because my dev team was fairly isolated) or high volume sales people (after consolidation of the office employees after 1st round of layoffs).

  24. Don't hear the music. by metalmonkey · · Score: 2, Funny

    When I'm really coding I don't hear the music.

    A few weeks ago I had album shuffle on, using laptop speakers in office when someone came in.
    It was half way through my child's nursery rhymes and I hadn't even noticed.

    I quickly shut it off - I guess my guest thought my taste in music was a little strange.

  25. Then play fair but play to win - ask for data by Eternal+Vigilance · · Score: 5, Interesting

    It sounds like your boss isn't a programmer, otherwise they wouldn't even be making their assertion. sigh...

    So your boss claims when you listen to music you're collectively distracted and you make more mistakes. You should then, since you take anything that can improve the quality of the code seriously, hold this meta-contribution to the corporate codebase to the same standard as anything else - in other words, require it be tested and verified before committing it.

    While from your standpoint this is likely to get you what you want, since it's very unlikely that your boss has anything factual to back up their position, it's also the most respectful way of considering your boss' potential contribution. "OK, even though you're not a skilled programmer, we'll still accept and treat your contribution just as if you were. Now here's the level of quality we all expect and demand from everything we put in our product - does what you intend to add actually meet the standards our company requires?"

    And this also gives them the possibility of showing you how they're right, and for whatever reason the programming group is distracted and error-prone. Even if music isn't the immediate cause (perhaps more of a late-stage symptom of some other systemic problem), that would still be very helpful to know.

    Of course, if you're just a bunch guys sitting around slinging code, you're gonna be SOL in this if you don't have any structure, testing and metrics to your development - and if you don't then your boss might strictly speaking be mistaken but indirectly be life's way of helpfully prompting you to get your act together. :-)

    Good luck improving your work environment. Rock out with your awk out!

  26. Re:Def better with music by Hognoxious · · Score: 2, Funny

    I'll bet it's one of the people making the noise that's behind the complaint. Probably somebody who, for sound[1] reasons, can't listen to music while working.

    Yes, since you ask, I did just glance over at sales.

    [1] sorry

    --
    Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  27. Robert M. Pirsig's advice by thegoldenear · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Robert M. Pirsig in Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance said very clearly that seeing mechanics work with music in the background was the sound of a poor quality workshop. I've thought about this with regard to programming and I sway between needing total silence and needing music.

    Pete Boyd

  28. So... by tomstorey · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Start making lots of mistakes to prove your point. :-) I personally find that sometimes, when the right song or songs are on, I get into a groove and do much more work. As for accuracy, its probably about the same. Music more so helps with my productivity.

  29. Re:Your boss is... by AGMW · · Score: 2, Insightful

    ... it can be necessary when you hit the zone.

    Yep! It never ceases to amaze me how the upper echelons of management can be so utterly clueless about how their companies work! Time after time I've worked in places where stupid decisions such as these are made - such as changing from different office space for the Sales/Marketing type folks and the Programmers/Developers to lumping them all in the same open plan office so we can all be "one big team"! 'Cos that's just what I like when I'm trying to code - sales and marketing buffoons talking too damn loud on the 'phone etc! Other 'funny' decisions is stuff like insisting that Programmers/Developers must all wear suits and ties because if you look smart you will work smart. Programmers often have their little foibles and management will ALWAYS be trying to shoe-horn them (us!) into their view of how Programmers should be! It's laughable really - I thought this sort of thing would stop happening once the IT people started to rise up through management and get to the top, but it still seems to be mostly the accountant types who get the top jobs (and they still cut pencils in half to save money!).

    Being in The Zone is such a great feeling too, then some numbnuts manager will come over and ask for a progress report and blow it all away!

    --
    Eclectic beats from Leeds, UK
    handmadehands.co.uk
  30. Re:Def better with music by Rakshasa+Taisab · · Score: 5, Funny

    So what you're saying is that the OP should get the boss to add free-roaming tigers to the cubicle landscape to provide the 10% distraction?

    --
    - These characters were randomly selected.
  31. Re:music as a distraction? depends by Hal_Porter · · Score: 3, Funny

    There are two ways to listen to music.

    1. Passive ... this is what MOST people do when they listen to music as they do things.
    2. Active ... this is where you pay active attention to the music.

    3. Passive Aggressive. This is listening to Lynch The Man by Rage Against The Machine while writing accounts tracking software unenthusiastically.

    --
    echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
  32. Re:music as a distraction? depends by something_wicked_thi · · Score: 5, Funny

    however i don't think slapping on headphones is the solution; music is also a distraction

    Huh?

    as a technical manager myself

    Ah.

  33. Re:Def better with music by lavaboy · · Score: 3, Funny

    sombody refer this man to the Fast Track CEO Program, STAT!

    --
    Steve -- If you have to call it a system, you don't know what it is.
  34. White Noise by martijnd · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I do a lot of work next to the sales team -- mostly that is not a problem as I am fairly able to tune out their prattle.

    But something I really NEED to concentrate on something. I find that listening to white noise (ocean waves or something) quickly filters out the conversations around me.

    I am completely unable to work with music on -- my preferred working environment is one of pure silence.

    1. Re:White Noise by chipschap · · Score: 2, Interesting

      During a recent stint in cube-land, I did the same. I ran an actual white noise generator (your choice of freeware is available) into headphones, and made it just loud enough to wash out the noise the idiots around me made all day long, but not so loud as to cause hearing damage.

  35. Your duty is to the shareholders not the bosses by ph1ll · · Score: 2, Insightful
    You don't have a duty to your boss, you have a duty to the company's shareholders. They are the people paying your wages, not the bosses.

    If the boss makes idiotic decisions that destroy productivity, I think it is reasonable to be insubordinate.

    [Without wishing to start a flame war, I've noticed that this blind allegiance to one's boss is very common in America. I have no idea why a people that so value their independence is so supine in the work place.]

    As for music while coding, I've found dance music (or anything without lyrics - jazz or classical, but especially high energy dance) helps me concentrate.

    --
    --- "We've always been at war with Eastasia."
  36. Re:Fire your boss for overstepping his authority by gander666 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    In every company that I have worked for, they have explicitly made me sign an agreement that anything I type (paraphrasing slightly) on the keyboard of my computer is subject to them reading and using in any context which they see fit. I have no expectations of privacy, and I suspect that they even track instant messaging in and out.

    If you are in the US, the odds are very high that you have a similar set of rights. It is just the way that it is. Don't like it? Go freelance, or start your own operation. But I guarantee you that after you add a few employees, you will probably adopt a similar privacy policy.

    I know that most of Europe has much moe expectation of privacy, and also other rights, but here in the USA, not so much.

    --
    Suppose you were an idiot and suppose you were a member of Congress ... but I repeat myself. - Mark T
  37. Re:Fire your boss for overstepping his authority by gander666 · · Score: 2, Funny

    Did the boss take your red stapler too?

    --
    Suppose you were an idiot and suppose you were a member of Congress ... but I repeat myself. - Mark T
  38. Re:What music? by gander666 · · Score: 2, Informative

    If you are going to do that, you should go to an Audiologist, and get custom fit earplugs. I have a couple of pairs, one for motorcycle riding which blocks about 90% of the sound (and are most helpful for sleeping in LOUD hotel rooms) and a set of musicians ear plugs for when i am playing guitar with friends.

    Not too expensive, and the custom fit makes them effortless to wear for long periods of times.

    --
    Suppose you were an idiot and suppose you were a member of Congress ... but I repeat myself. - Mark T
  39. Lyrics distract by Xenna · · Score: 3, Informative

    I think I read somewhere that music is OK, but lyrics basically have the same effect as chatting people, some part of your brain listens to and interprets the words. Unfortunately that uses language and logic skills that you also need while programming. So, stick to classical and other instrumental music and you should be OK. MUch better than chatting people in the background. Here in Europe, at least we have doors that can be closed :)

    1. Re:Lyrics distract by dgym · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Or listen to swedish death metal, there might be lyrics at some imaginary level, but nothing I can discern. Literally something to scream along to.

      One place I worked had a guitar we could use when we wanted. Again, no lyrics, just people quietly playing away to the best of their ability, easily drowned out by headphones if necessary.

      There is something about the rhythm, pace and harmony of playing on a guitar for half an hour that seemed to help me make the right changes to the code when I went back to the computer. This was a place where the importance of making the right changes (and preferably only the right changes) was well understood.

  40. Re:Your boss is... by tsm_sf · · Score: 5, Insightful

    One of the best moments of my programming career was when my boss came over and said he hated to see me with my feet up and hands interlaced behind my head (the classic 'kicking back' pose). My manager interjected with "right now he is earning the money you pay him".

    So rare to get a manager that understands the process.

    --
    Literalism isn't a form of humor, it's you being irritating.
  41. A serious suggestion by bradley13 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Assuming that all of the programmers are in agreement, here is what you should do:

    • Choose a time when you know that your boss has no appointments. Do not make an appointment yourselves - just walk in and say that you need to talk.
    • It is essential that you go as a group - all of you physically present. This shows that it is a real problem, and not just one or two disgrunted individuals.
    • Choose your spokesperson in advance - best is a senior developer who carries a lot of responsibility.
    • Do not make this an issue about listening to music - that is entirely irrelevant. The problem is the office chatter and the ability to concentrate. The real solution is to isolate the programmers from the chatter.

    Let me emphasize that last point: the problem is not the lack of music. The problem is the noise. The solution you want is a separate room, or else a sound-proof partition in the current room. As you point out, the music is mainly to drown out the chatter. Get rid of the chatter, and the music is a non-issue.

    --
    Enjoy life! This is not a dress rehearsal.
  42. Re:Just following orders by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    My goal at work is to get fired for bringing things to people's attention.

    We got a 5% pay cut because of financial performance, but I don't have anyone under me - I just follow orders. So following orders like a good worker resulted in a pay cut.

    We also took a survey to represent the supposed Voice Of the Workforce, and a major action item is to improve things. Like 'management makes good decisions' type questions and 'Id recommend this place to a friend'. We're supposed to fix things because the responses are negative at this point.

    The only way is to stand your ground. I have survey results and a pay cut as my explanation if my manager wants to question why I'm causing problems. Following orders got me a pay cut, exposing stupidity will get me either smart coworkers at my current job, or smart coworkers at a job I'll be forced to look for when I get fired. Either way, I'm not going to be responsible for other peoples' decisions. If they don't want you to be a happy employee, you probably don't want to work there anyway.

    I'm 0 for 2 on getting fired, meaning I complained enough that I feared getting fired, twice, and they fixed things instead. I'm currently working on a third complaint, will let you know how it goes on Monday.

  43. Re:Def better with music by PopeRatzo · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I'm a musician, and when I compose music I like to listen to people write code.

    Actually, since I do a lot of my work in Cycling 74 MAXdsp, which is not unlike working in a visual development system for software or IDE for music and sound, you could say that when I compose music I listen to myself program. Or when I program, I listen to myself write music.

    But I absolutely must have a TV on with the sound turned down.

    --
    You are welcome on my lawn.
  44. White noise by jbohumil · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Get a white noise generator. I have an ancient one that sits in the corner of my office. It helps drown out the background chit chat and definitely helps me focus my attention without distraction. No one notices that is is on but if I ever turn it off you suddenly become aware of just how noisy everyone is, you can hear every sniffle and word spoken and you realize just how distracting that really is. Maybe stage such a demo, have your noise generator running for a couple of weeks, then one day when your boss is in your cube, just reach over casually and turn it off. When he suddenly becomes aware of all the distracting chit chat pouring in, point out how much more productive you have been since you got the white noise generator and how it serves the same purpose for you music used to do when it was allowed. It might open his mind a little. Or not. But the main thing is you can concentrate.

  45. This is like sociology.... by Joce640k · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ...and the only conclusion ever reached by sociologists is: "Some do, some don't!"

    --
    No sig today...
  46. Need headphones even in full offices by cruff · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I have a full office (walls, door) where I work, and I still need to use headphones because of the sound conduction through the wall and suspended tile ceiling, and I only have to deal with one person in the adjacent office, but sometimes it is due to people blabbing out in the hallway. I find that certain types of music are conducive to my concentration if I am programming, and if I am not programming, more types of music are also acceptable.

  47. White noise by Balau · · Score: 2, Insightful

    If the goal is to filter out noise, then the simples solution is to put on your headphones or ear buds and listen to white noise. Your body is programmed to give "attention" to the white noise, and you won't add possible distractions in the form of lyrics, solos... That said, regarding to music everyone is different. If you see a programmer with headphones furiously typing on a code file, it's ok. If you see a programmer with headphones furiously playing an air guitar, on the other hand...

    --
    Working to work less.
  48. Been there by Captain+CowHeart · · Score: 2, Interesting

    In my previous job, like 7 years ago, I used headphones too and my boss once called me to his office and forbidden listening to music explicitly. I tried to explain and ask for reasons and he just told me he didn't have to explain anything. A couple months after I applied for a new job and entered an environment where everyone used headphones to keep them concentrated to their work and the company even bought the headphones on request. And guess what, all the good developers left sooner and later too. Managers like this are just morons, get off if you can.

  49. Show this thread to your boss by jtollefson · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I work at a huge credit card company, they allow all of us programmers to listen to music. They actually encourage it, there's no way we could drown out all the other noise of the cubicle farm. They gave us Microsoft Communicator so we could still communicate while we had headphones on. I would probably quit if I couldn't listen to music to drown out all the shit in the background.

  50. Re:Productivity by Yvan256 · · Score: 3, Funny

    Well of course. Your code is digital and so is your music. Digital + digital = twice as much digital!

  51. Re:Programming without music? Listen Up Cog by Casualposter · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Forget you. You are not valuable. You are an expense. You are a necessary evil that cuts into the profits. Why do you think the company stock goes up when a bunch of you are laid off? If you were valuable assets, then the company could borrow against your value like it can against inventory and accounts receivable. You could be sold or traded like inventory or the old company car.

    Right now there are fifty guys in line for your job. Your manager can replace you with another monkey in clothing faster than you can say "But I like music." IT does not matter what your experience or your skills or education, you are a cog in a machine and when you squeak you get replaced with some less squeaky cog.

    That's the nature of companies in our day in age.

    --
    Creative Spelling Copyright (2002). May use without Persimmons
  52. Re:music as a distraction? depends by slarrg · · Score: 2, Informative

    I often find myself slapping on headphones even when I'm not listening to music to keep people from randomly popping into my cubicle to talk about meaningless drivel which is the most distracting thing. When I do listen to music, I prefer something that moves quickly without distracting vocals. Look, good programmers are exceedingly good at optimizing their own productivity and do not need bosses who've read the study du jour and decided that they know what's happening inside the heads of their programmers. The current study was conducted with pop music which any programmer would already have told you is too distracting for them. Of course there were the previous studies that showed classical music increased memory and cognition in students which the marketing wonks decide it made babies into Einstein even though the study did not apply to babies nor were the effects long-lasting. If you want the project done, you can at least allow me to manipulate the environment surrounding my own head since I have much more experience in achieving my own highest productivity than any manager ever will.

  53. Just sing instead... by gillbates · · Score: 4, Funny

    After a few bars of Oklahoma! ... you'll get your music players back.

    When questioned, explain that it helps you concentrate on the task at hand. Remind him that IBM hired musicians for the first programmers.

    --
    The society for a thought-free internet welcomes you.
  54. 8-bit mix by FlyByPC · · Score: 3, Funny

    I enjoy what I call my "8-bit mix" -- various songs, each with some kind of "8-bit" flavor to them. Some are old Nintendo themes (Tetris for the GB had great music for looping), some are simple classical instrumentals (pieces by Rameau, The Harmonious Blacksmith, etc.)

    But then again, my programming tends to be very procedural (and often 8-bit assembly). YMMV.

    About the only common theme seems to be order, as opposed to chaos.

    --
    Paleotechnologist and connoisseur of pretty shiny things.
  55. Re:Music is bad...sorta by Skapare · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I've found that vocal music is just as detrimental as voices chatting. So now I have yet another reason to not play country music. Instrumental music, most classical music, vocal-free electronica, and even heavy metal that manages to drown own their own vocals, works to boost the creative process ... at least for me. I code to everything from Beethoven to Burzum.

    --
    now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
  56. Re:They do tend to hinders communication by Skapare · · Score: 2, Interesting

    We get around this with IM, Email, and PostIt notes.

    --
    now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
  57. Re:Use ear protection by Skapare · · Score: 2, Funny

    How about a set of really big ear covering protectors that have "Smith & Wesson" printed on each side, with a picture of a pistol. Or maybe the "Glock" ones.

    --
    now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
  58. Re:Programming without music? Listen Up Cog by dkleinsc · · Score: 2, Insightful

    How right you are.

    The interesting thing is that an environment like that, there are 2 political messages that become a lot more appealing:
    1) blame some minority group of people for all your woes: Mexican immigrants, black people, communists, Jews, Muslims, etc. In short, fascism.
    2) band together with the other exploited workers to put a stop to oppressive management. Workers of the world, unite! In short, communism.

    And when you look for the last time both of those messages really took hold, you get Europe in the early 20th century.

    --
    I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
  59. Better Answer by mikelieman · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Fire off a memo/email to the boss and HR every time you're distracted by the ambient noise.

    Guy comes to fill the vending machines? That's a memo.

    Someone in a nearby cube on the phone? That's a memo.

    Boss walks through the cubes talking to someone else? That's a memo.

    Make the point that unless you either have a private office with a door, OR SOME METHOD OF ISOLATING THE AMBIENT DISTRACTIONS IN YOUR CUBE, you're going to continue documenting every time you're distracted due to his stupidity.

    --
    Technology -- No Place For Wimps! Grateful Dead and Jerry Garcia Chatroom -- http://www.wemissjerry.org
  60. Concentration by __aalruu9610 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    For me, complete silence is the best way to program. At work, that's impossible and the people I work around practically yell pointless chatter all day, so music becomes the best second choice.

    I have noticed that music actually hinders my ability to program slightly. I am not as "in the zone" with music playing, but it is MUCH easier to concentrate with a song you can tune out than with people laughing and talking about their weekends (or even work related talk).

    People that don't require that level of concentration at work don't (and can't) understand...scheduling meetings, talking on the phone, writing emails, and multitasking is much easier to do without concentration compared to wrapping your head around hundreds of lines or thousands of code and how they all interact. I think programming without concentration would be nearly impossible for me, and more importantly would be dangerous...music avoids that. :)

  61. Option 1c - ADA request by Kagato · · Score: 2, Insightful

    If the boss wants to be a dick then throw it back at him with an official ADA request at HR for a reasonable accommodation of a white noise system to block out the office conversations that are triggering your ADD. I've actually worked at places that use white noise systems to create privacy, and the ones that actually work are quite expensive and have to be installed in the entire work area. Add a footnote to the request that if only your dickhead boss would let you use your iPod they wouldn't have to go through the expense.

    1. Re:Option 1c - ADA request by binaryspiral · · Score: 3, Funny

      I worked in a place that used a whitenoise system that utilized ceiling mounted speakers. The unix folks disconnected it in their area and hooked it up to their own amp and music player. The programmers didn't notice - they were all using headphones. The sales guys didn't care - they weren't in the office. And the managers had no clue - they had their own offices.

      The windows guys still suffered through it but were on the phone so much it really didn't matter.

  62. Re:Programming without music? Listen Up Cog by Sxooter · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This is an extreme, and inaccurate oversimplification. There are thousands of unemployed programmers, but honestly most of them are shitty and I would never hire them. During this current downturn we interviewed about 25 developers for an open position and found 2 acceptable candidates.

    Plus, you invest a lot of time and effort training someone in how to work at your company with your development process. It takes them time to become familiar with the code they're working on. Employees in general, and coders in particular are not simple cookie cutter replacements and your boss knows this. The average cost to bring a new coder up to speed measures in the 10s of thousands of dollars.

    --

    --- It is not the things we do which we regret the most, but the things which we don't do.
  63. I bet you didn't know by OldProgrammerDude · · Score: 2, Interesting

    For the last two years of my bachelors and all of my MBA, when ever I studied, read, wrote papers, I always had music in the background. I went from and average GPA of 2.1 to 3.75 for that period. Many years later I would read a study that tested the effect on learning and listening to music. Consistently, students who listened to music while reading retained more then students that did not. The reasoning is that while concentrating on something technical the music engages the creative, thus making for connections in the brain and thus easier to recall. So your programmers are in a problem solving mode, listening to music, doesn't this apply as well. Making each programmer a better problem solver, better analyst...etc? Concentrating and listening to music makes you a better programmer!

  64. Good call on symphonies. Ballets are even better. by Xocet_00 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I listen to classical symphonies, but I also find that listening to ballet (Swan Lake is a perfect, classic example) is even better than symphonies, because while there are technically more breaks in the music than a symphony, there tends to be a single narrative flow in a ballet.

    What I mean is that in a symphony each movement has its own underlying theme, upon which variations are built. Ballet, on the other hand, tends to carry the same themes through the entire work (although often more than one - usually one for each major character).

    I'm very easily distracted by sound and need to choose very carefully what I listen to when I need to concentrate. I always seem to come back to ballet.

  65. Re:Programming without music? Listen Up Cog by Hognoxious · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Employees in general, and coders in particular are not simple cookie cutter replacements

    True.

    and your boss knows this.

    You do, I do, and most people here do. But the boss? Nope.

    The average cost to bring a new coder up to speed measures in the 10s of thousands of dollars.

    Your typical PHB doesn't even understand that. He'll probably think it means you hired someone who can't type very fast.

    --
    Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  66. Boss' perception of unproductivity or poor quality by Dr_Art · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The big issue here is the boss' PERCEPTION that developers are not producing at a level he expects or that the code being produced is crappy. The music edict is just a proxy for his real concern. It is critical for you to make sure the boss doesn't have this perception about YOU specifically. If so, you need to either find a way to change the boss' perception of you, or find another job. Most likely the boss' perception is general, and is not based on any real metrics of productivity or quality. What might help is suggesting to the boss how to collect such metrics, and more importantly how to present to his management that his team is very productive and has the highest quality work. It's very likely that the boss is being pressured by his management, so giving him the tools to fight back will help your teams' chance of avoiding the next round of layoffs. This is good for everyone: the boss gets credit, you are adding value, and everyone is aligned with the company's goals.

  67. Re:White noise / surf ? by PaladinAlpha · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Not all background noise is from outside the ears. I have a condition (tinnitus? sp?) whereby there is a constant ringing in my ears, and so silence has the ability to drive me absolutely batty. I have to run a fan when I sleep, and any time I'm trying to work music is my constant companion. More than that, though, the music keeps me motivated -- I take a lot of energy from the music I listen to.

  68. Re:Wear earmuffs. by bezenek · · Score: 2, Interesting

    A research lab at one of the big chip makers issued me earmuffs, as they did to all employees. Note: This is a research lab, which looks a lot like any cubicle environment at a company like Google, Microsoft, etc. This worked very well, and to this day, I consider noise-blocking earmuffs to be part of my office supplies.

    Good noise-blocking earmuffs are better than earplugs. If they are of good quality, they will be more comfortable than all but the best headphones. Be careful, because many of these earmuffs are designed to block loud noises like jet engines, while letting in conversations. You do not want something that lets conversations in, but instead, muffs that block everything.

    The best set I have found (other than very expensive examples) are the Bilsom Viking V3 earmuffs. See http://earplugstore.stores.yahoo.net/bilsom-viking-v3-1.html as one example.

    When I am wearing my earmuffs, I can barely hear my phone ring. If someone walks up behind me and talks to me, I do not know they are there.

    -Todd

    P.s. One more important consideration is one way to block noise is to block air movement. Some inexpensive earmuffs do this, but it causes pressure issues in your ears, similar to pushing your hands against your ears (painful!).

    You can tell whether a set of earmuffs is good by putting them on and then pressing the muffs tighter into your head. If the pressure goes up like you are in an airplane, these are cheap. The Vikings will NOT do this.

    --
    Omne ignotum pro magnifico.
  69. Re:Programming without music? Listen Up Cog by dkleinsc · · Score: 2, Informative

    In case you hadn't picked up on it, "Workers of the world, unite!" is a direct quote from the Communist Manifesto. The folks I was referring to were most definitely Communists: The Republican side of the Spanish Civil War, the Red side of the Russian Revolution being the two most prominent examples.

    --
    I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/