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Microsoft Fined In India For Using "Money Power" Against Pirates

bhagwad writes "The Delhi High Court has found Microsoft guilty of using money and influence to make it expensive to defend against piracy cases. According to the judge, 'When the constitution of India provides equality before law, this equality has to be all pervasive and cannot be allowed to be diluted because of money power or lobbying power.' Furthermore, the judge said that Microsoft had to deposit a certain amount of money beforehand, and, if they lost the case, the money would go to the defendants for their legal and travel expenses. For icing on the cake, the court also appointed a commissioner to probe the matter further and ordered Microsoft to pay the costs. In an age where muscled corporations harass the ordinary person through expensive litigation, it's highly pleasurable to see them rapped for it by a judge."

18 of 204 comments (clear)

  1. Too bad the US can't comprehend this concept by fdrebin · · Score: 4, Insightful
    In theory that's the way it is, but in practice, most of the time you need a lot of money to deal with legal matters.

    Too bad that lawsuits and prosecutions are about winning and losing, not about finding out the truth.

    /F

    --
    Stupidity... has a habit of getting its way.
    1. Re:Too bad the US can't comprehend this concept by L0rdJedi · · Score: 4, Interesting

      This sounds like "loser pays" which is similar to the UK. The concept being that the entity bringing the lawsuit ends up paying all court fees if they lose the battle. It has less to do with India being more Democratic and more to do with India setting up their system to keep people from bringing frivolous lawsuits. "Loser pays" keeps people from suing about every little thing since they end up having to pay if the suit is found to be without merit and hence they "lose".

    2. Re:Too bad the US can't comprehend this concept by paiute · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "Loser pays" also gives large corporations carte blanche to screw individuals.

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    3. Re:Too bad the US can't comprehend this concept by NoYob · · Score: 5, Insightful

      "Loser pays" also gives large corporations carte blanche to screw individuals.

      Did your boss walk by or something? Please expand on that a little.

      I'll try.

      In a nutshell, big corp, no matter how much in the wrong the are, can wave in front of the 'little guy's" face that they'll keep him in court for years and if he loses, he'll be on the hook for millions of dollars in legal fees. I don't care how sure you are about your case, that's a huge disincentive to stick up for one's self. Now, add in the fact that the laws are skewed in the corporation's favor, it's a system that's ripe for even more abuse than we have now.

      Imagine the RIAA going after folks and saying that they could fight and not only have to pay their own legal bills but also the RIAA's if they lose. No one would even think about it. The EFF would have to become very selective of the cases it took - even more than they are now.

      And one last thing: there's a huge difference with an individual being stuck with the legal bills as opposed to a corporation. With a corporation, at least the big ones, they lose a lawsuit it's not a big deal - any legal costs an individual runs up they can pay out of their toilet paper budget. An individual loses and they're ruined.

      For a loser pays system, I would want restrictions placed on what a corporation can do - maybe even preventing them from collecting legal fees when litigating against an individual in a "loser pays" system.

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    4. Re:Too bad the US can't comprehend this concept by AndersOSU · · Score: 4, Interesting

      not the OP

      But imagine you sue Microsoft for a small amount of money for, say, voiding your registration after updating a graphics card. MS, in their defense spends tens of thousands of dollars preparing to defend the case (this is not unrealistic, their corporate lawyers are already collecting a salary, now they're just billing their time against your case. Microsoft parades a few expert witnesses in front of the judge (or jury) and successfully confuses them. They rule against you - now you're on the hook for a huge legal bill.

      Loser pays disincentivizes bringing law suits against big players. That is not to say our system is necessarily preferable, both systems have their pros and cons.

    5. Re:Too bad the US can't comprehend this concept by uglyduckling · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Way to miss the point! On a 'both parties pay' system, the little guy loses even when he/she wins - you can be sued for something completely unreasonable, and unless the court throws the case out summarily, it's going to cost a lot of money to defend yourself, so it's usually easier to settle. With a 'loser pays' system, well - obviously - the loser pays. That means that if the little guy is cetain he is right, it's worth giving it a shot if he thinks the court will understand the issue and he is likely to win. So if you win, you really win, unlike in the US system where you can win and still lose.

      Also, it's worth lawyers taking on cases which they think they are likely to win, because they know they will get their fees (which has led to a proliferation of "no win, no fee" lawyers in the UK). Presumably, under the US system, legal firms need to decide on the likelihood of their client being solvent, rather than the likelihood that they will win, again stacking the deck in favour of those with the money.

      Your issue about the restrictions on what a corporation can do - of course, in a 'loser pays' system, the opposition can't run up enormous legal bills and presume that the loser will pay them all. The court will award legal fees as part of the damages but that wouldn't mean covering the expenditure of the entire legal department of a big corporation for the duration of the case.

    6. Re:Too bad the US can't comprehend this concept by canajin56 · · Score: 4, Informative

      That's how it already works though. Judges can award attorneys fees, though they tend to reserve this for awarding large corporations their legal fees, not individuals. For example, a Fox reporter was fired because his boss told him "I like that bit about bovine growth hormones, but we're sponsored by Monsanto, so change your conclusion to say that it's perfectly harmless", and he refused to lie on TV. A judge held that not only does Fox have a right to fire for refusing to outright lie on TV, but he found the lawsuit so DISGUSTING of an assault on free speech that he awarded Fox 2 million to cover their legal fees.

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    7. Re:Too bad the US can't comprehend this concept by Bios_Hakr · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I like the idea of "loser pays" until you need to file a suit against someone with unlimited resources. Personally, I'd like to see the method amended to only cover the cost of the lowest fees.

      In other words, if you sue me and you spend $1000/hour on legal, but I only spend $100/hour, I only have to reimburse you for $100/hour. If your total fees were $100,000 and mine were only $10,000, I'd have to pay you $10,000 in "loser pays" fees.

      --
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    8. Re:Too bad the US can't comprehend this concept by shadowofwind · · Score: 4, Interesting

      "Loser pays" also gives large corporations carte blanche to screw individuals.

      Yes you are undoubtedly correct. Case in point: when my wife and I sued Paypal, and the judge threw it out based on jurisdiction and on our supposedly having given up our right to sue in under any circumstances by signing Paypal's user agreement. It cost us less than $100 to file the suit. Had we had to pay for Paypal's lawyer, that would have prevented us from suing. And this wasn't a frivolous lawsuit - even that judge agreed that Paypal had clearly stolen our money, and their lawyer didn't dispute that either.

      In theory a case like this one should have been a criminal case rather than civil, but there isn't always someone interested in prosecuting, even when a crime has clearly been committed. (Another anecdotal example, though not involving a corporation: my grandfather died of a head injury under very strange circumstances, and the DMV agreed that the person who wound up with most of his assets had forged the title on his sports car. But my grandmother was unable to get a criminal case opened, even for a crime of that severity.)

      When the perpetrator is a corporation that can afford gazillion dollar lawyers, loser pays protects the corporation even when they are clearly guilty.

    9. Re:Too bad the US can't comprehend this concept by morgen_m · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The chief justice of India is one of the so called 'untouchables'. The president is a woman. The prime minister is from a religious minory, which requires men to wear turbans. The head of the ruling party is a foreign born woman. Now show me how America matches this diversity?

  2. Jurisdictional Problem by phantomcircuit · · Score: 5, Informative

    This is entirely about jurisdiction. The copyright violations occurred in four cities, but microsoft filed suit in the capital. The judge is merely saying that if they insist on suing in the capital they must pay for the defendants travel expenses in the event microsoft loses.

  3. Re:Headline by CSHARP123 · · Score: 5, Informative

    Exactly, India adheres to principle of Innocent until proven Guilty. /. headline already calls the defendent Pirate. Judge Siding the pirate makes no sense. Judge has not ruled on the case yet. He is making an observation on the MS tactics of filing case in a different jurisdiction when they can file in the jurisdiction where the alleged infringment has happened. Commened the Judge for taking this stand. As usual, MS where ever they go, wouldn't change their lousy tactics.

  4. Re:Very Poor Taste by interkin3tic · · Score: 4, Funny

    Was using the term "rapped" in the summary of the article necessary? It gets rather old watching the word used so flippantly. Good Job bhagwad, you just surpassed Kdawson as the worse /. editor.

    Ooooh! You rapped kdawson AND bhagwad there! Niiiiice!

  5. Re:Very Poor Taste by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Was using the term "rapped" in the summary of the article necessary? It gets rather old watching the word used so flippantly. Good Job bhagwad, you just surpassed Kdawson as the worse /. editor.

    CS-

    This is why spelling and reading comprehension are important in school. It is not just so that others can understand you. It is so that you can understand others.

  6. Not as it seems... by clone53421 · · Score: 4, Informative

    They were not “fined”.

    Delhi High Court has asked Microsoft Corporation to shell out Rs 800,000 ($16,000) for choosing to
    fight four copyright violation cases in the Indian capital even though they originated in other cities.

    ...but if you read on...

    Microsoft said it was fighting the cases in Delhi as it has its office in the national capital.

    But the court told Microsoft if it wanted the cases to be heard here, it would have to deposit a sum of Rs 200,000 per case - as a cost security.

    The amount will be kept with the registrar general of the Delhi High Court till the final disposal of the four cases. It will be given to the defendants if the cases are found to be false.

    It’s merely a deposit. If Microsoft wins, they get the money back.

    Also... $16,000? That’s pocket change to Microsoft. They’re probably laughing right now.

    --
    Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
  7. Re:Headline by Maxo-Texas · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It's sad. They even view this as correct behavior in the U.S.

    It's a large part of the reason our justice system is broken with regard to the wealthy and powerful and corporations.
    It's a large part of how RIAA succeeds. They just sue you to death until you are out of money and can't defend yourself.

    --
    She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
  8. Re:Im torn by mea37 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I don't see anything in that to be torn over.

    The court's ruling does not prevent MS from pursuing its claims, particularly if they are legitimate. It does say that MS cannot try to deny the defendants their right to a fair trial. Even a guilty party has that right.

    There is only a dilema if you believe you have reason to choose sides between the alleged pirates or MS. Why do you think you need to choose sides? If the alleged pirates are guilty, but also MS is trying to bully them, then both are wrong. On the other hand, while there is piracy in India, you don't know that these particular allegations are true.

    That's the point of a fair trial. The rules shouldn't favor either side, so there is no need to take a side. All you have to decide to evaluate the merits of this ruling, is whether it makes the playing field more level or less so.

  9. Re:Very Poor Taste by sexconker · · Score: 5, Funny

    Was using the term "rapped" in the summary of the article necessary? It gets rather old watching the word used so flippantly.

    A friend of mine made the same mistake many years ago. It was an English Literature class, and we had a group project where we had to stand up and present about various poetry.

    When it was his group's turn, they stood in front of the class and began talking about and reading the same poetry that we had all been required to read and discuss - making the entire exercise completely pointless.

    My friend was simply reading the poem allowed, from a printed copy when he committed the error.

    The teacher heard it, I heard it, and a (different) friend heard it. My friend and I shot each other a glance - a terrible mistake, because I believe we now both got ulcers from containing our laughter.

    My friend at the front of the class continued, blissfully unaware of his mistake. The teacher made no attempt to correct him. She either felt it was a lost cause, or was putting all of her effort into squelching her laughter.

    The blank stares from the rest of his group, who were standing at his side waiting for their turn to be over, and from the rest of the class confirmed that they either didn't notice, or that they thought it was correct.

    After the group was finished, the teacher quietly explained to my friend (who had committed the error) why we had been smirking, squirming in our seats, and frantically biting our tongues.

    He was reading "The Raven", by Edgar Alan Poe.

    For those unfamiliar...

    Once upon a midnight dreary, while I pondered weak and weary,
    Over many a quaint and curious volume of forgotten lore,
    While I nodded, nearly napping, suddenly there came a tapping,
    As of some one gently raping, raping at my chamber door.
    `'Tis some visitor,' I muttered, `tapping at my chamber door -
    Only this, and nothing more.'