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When Developers Work Late, Should the Manager Stay?

Posted by Soulskill on from the stop-watching-me-think dept.

jammag writes "A veteran developer looks back — in irritation — at those times he had to work late and his unskilled manager stayed too, just to look over his shoulder and add worry and fret to the process. Now, that same developer is a manager himself — and recently stayed late to ride herd over late-working developers. 'And guess what? Yep, I hadn't coded in years and never in the language he had to work with.' Yet now he understood: his own butt was on the line, so he was staying put. Still, does it really help developers to have management hovering on a late evening, even if the boss handles pizza delivery?"

15 of 426 comments (clear)

  1. As long as he knows how to ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ... STFU, keeps the hell out of the way, and does nothing other than bring pizza (and a few beers later on towards the end of the shift), that's ok.

    Anything else is NOT HELPING!

    1. Re:As long as he knows how to ... by Hognoxious · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Many years ago a colleague told me a tale (with misty eyes) of a former boss who'd done exactly that - when everyone had to work through a weekend he came in first, left last and appointed himself as chief coffee maker and senior takeout waiter.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    2. Re:As long as he knows how to ... by nightgeometry · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Pretty much what I do. I try to be last to leave (and often first to arrive). Not some macho shit, just that if I expect my team to be in, I'll be in, I won't ask them to work hours I'm not willing to work. And if there isn't anything for me to do, yeah, I'm the tea boy. Weekends, I always go get lunch if we're in.

      --
      The best is the enemy of the good
    3. Re:As long as he knows how to ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Many years ago a colleague told me a tale (with misty eyes) of a former boss who'd done exactly that - when everyone had to work through a weekend he came in first, left last and appointed himself as chief coffee maker and senior takeout waiter.

      That kind of stuff breeds loyalty in employees. You'd think more managers would realize this. Especially if the manager's attitude is a humble one about clearing away problems and taking responsibility for issues and decisions. If you put that together in a positive work environment I'll stick around. Heck, I stuck around far too many years at one job that was a clear dead-end for me because I loved working with the team and my boss was a real mensch. Hard to find nice environments like that.

      Sadly, they took that boss out in a political coup. It seems he was too focused on doing a good job managing and building a great team to spend the necessary time on politics, back-stabbing, and subterfuge. The details involved having his IT department's budget gutted to buy a penthouse for the CFO.

    4. Re:As long as he knows how to ... by TapeCutter · · Score: 5, Interesting

      "Part of my job is clearing the BS that I have to deal with from my directs' path so that they can do their best work"

      Indeed, that is the most important part of the job.

      I've been a boss and found it wasn't worth the aggravation. The best boss I ever worked with (as opposed to for) had been in the business for 40yrs yet he could make you feel like you were telling him something new when you answered his "silly" questions. He was a cockney and tough as nails but only brought out that side when his considerable charm and patience didn't work. He's dead now and they just don't make gentlemen like that anymore.

      --
      And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
  2. It's called a team by furball · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If I'm in the shit, I want you in the shit with me. Though, being a manager and staying late with your developers, your first priority shouldn't be riding them but play a support role. What do they need to get the job done? What can you do to remove obstacles from their way? Food? Drinks? Problems come up. What can you as a manager do to resolve that problem?

    1. Re:It's called a team by furball · · Score: 5, Funny

      A blow job would be nice, thanks.

      This is a good time to go over sexual harassment laws. A blow job may not be sexual harassment. Your standard sexual harassment training may have taught you that it is and it may be for your particular business. However, the laws on sexual harassment is a little bit more complex than that.

      It all has to do with the context of the action and the nature of the business. For example, if you work in a finance company walking up to someone and asking, "Her breasts look wrong. Can you review it?" That's sexual harassment. If you work in publishing and are dealing with models and your role in the company is related to photography walking up and asking an editor "Her breasts look wrong. Can you review it?" is not sexual harassment.

      So in review, I can't tell you if a blow job is sexual harassment or not. Chances are that it is. However, it all depends on the context of your business. I mean if you're working in a brothel and there's 30 dudes wanting blow jobs asking a manager to help out by giving someone a blow job so that the dudes waiting for a blow job can be serviced and get on with their way would not be sexual harassment.

      As they say, "And knowing's half the battle."

    2. Re:It's called a team by DreamsAreOkToo · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Let me second this. Managers should add to the efficiency of a team. Make it clear that you're staying to support them, not harass them. Stay out of sight, but make it clear that they can call on you for communication with the rest of the team, as well as keeping people refreshed. Something that may be effective is for them to reason through a problem with you. You may not be able to code in their language, but often times, if they talk through the problem with you, they themselves will have an epiphany. If they're staying late, they're obviously already dedicated to seeing the task through to completion, there's no need to ride them.

      And while you're sitting there, unable to help, I'd pick up a book on the programming language they're using to code. Even if you never put your fingers to the keyboard, it will gain you credibility, which will make you, as a manager, a thousand times more effective.

    3. Re:It's called a team by HiVizDiver · · Score: 5, Insightful

      In the Army, we had a saying that the officers/senior staff's job, in addition to things like battle planning during exercises/times of conflict, was to be "in charge of the beans and the bullets". Meaning, keep the resources flowing that the team needs to keep working as efficiently as possible.

      It's no different with management - as a manager of a staff of 11, my job is to keep them working as best they can but STAY OUT OF THEIR WAY. I don't have to know the absolute minute details of how/why their doing something, as long as the project stays on track. If it means making sure a delivery of materials is ready so they can start the project on time, it means that. If it means making sure we have proper drawings/documentation before we start the project, it means that. If it means running out to a vendor to resupply something when the shit hits the fan, it means that. If it means buying pizza because we had to work late, it means that. Keep them working and focused on the task, not the support needs. But it does NOT mean I get in their way and hover over them, constantly checking their work. Most managers that I've met who know every specific detail about how to do the job their employees are doing aren't actually good "people" managers - they're micromanagers who usually suffer from a variety of social disorders, shall we say, and couldn't "manage" their way out of a paper bag.

      Good management is as much about knowing what NOT to do as knowing what TO do.

      Obviously, if your team actually ARE a bunch of idiots, you have to change your tactics a bit, but in this economy, why do you have idiots working for you? ;-)

    4. Re:It's called a team by iocat · · Score: 5, Insightful
      Agree completely. When I was managing developers, I felt I had to be first in and last out. Not hovering (although, I confess, that happened occaisionally -- maybe six times in a brutal 8 month crunch, when we were getting close to a breathrough), but making sure everyone had everything they needed, whether it was food, laundry, software, dev support services, live rats for their pet snakes, or just someone to bitch to. No one likes putting in long hours when the "boss" is off golfing. If you're interfering with the team you're slowing them down, but you have to be there, even if you're just in your office miserably surfing the web (or sleeping -- I've had "first in, last out" schedules that kept me in the office from 8am to 4am for weeks, so sleeping under the desk was the only way to cope).

      There's always something you can do, whether it's streamlining HR administrivia for people, hunting down the latest versions of SDKs and stuff, or whatever. When there was nothing I could do on the project (not testing or feedback or whatever), I just focused on quality of life issues. My big tip: buy a barbeque grill and cook for your team. Not only is it cheaper than any pre-cooked alternative, it tastes better and people seem to really like the fact that the producer is personally cooking for them. You can buy steaks and potatoes for less than the cost of pizza, and burgers and stuff trend towards less than $3 a person (versus ~$8 for pizza or ~$20 for Indian). A 10pm or 11pm run for ice cream, slim jims, fresh coffee, and cigarettes is also usually appreciated!

      Bottom line, if you can't change the schedule so people can live normal lives, my feeling is you have a firm responsibility to share the pain and enable people to get the task at hand done as easily as possible. But, don't get in the way, don't micromanage, and DO NOT CHAT. If there are two producers there, bored, chewing the fat while they are "there with the team" they may as well go home. Everyone else is concentrating. Pretend you are too! And don't chat with the people doing the heavy lifting unless they are clearly in break mode! You cannot be a tool of procrastination!

      --

      Dude, I think I can see my house from here.

  3. depends by unformed · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If the developers are staying late because the manager messed up, it doesn't hurt to stay late (but stay out of the way and order them food)

    If the developers are staying late because they come in late or they messed up, no, the manager doesn't need to stay.

  4. Yes...but by voss · · Score: 5, Informative

    Dont be a micromanager. Just be there for the employees and let them know that its okay to ask for help.

  5. Yes. by 4iedBandit · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I don't develop. I sysadmin. Recently I was asked to build out 15 new servers. At 5:30pm. It was an emergency and had to be done ASAP, oddly enough because the coders wrote a crappy code release that required a threefold increase in horsepower just to handle the normal load and the companies QA process never picked up on this highly important fact and the code was pushed to production where it ground things to a standstill. I know the company isn't going to do squat for me. I don't get overtime. I won't get a bonus. I won't get comp time.

    For my managers manager to stay the night was a show of solidarity. He doesn't know how to build the systems, but at least he was there. Now the important thing is that he wasn't watching over my shoulder every step of the way. He'd ask for updates every couple of hours and he went out and brought me dinner so I could stay working, but otherwise stayed out of the way and let me do the work.

    Psychologically it helped to know that he also missed playing with his kids and putting them to bed that night. Sometimes inspiring your employees is as simple as demonstrating that you share their pain, even if you can't share the workload.

    Now if this behavior becomes the norm, it doesn't matter what management does. People will soon be burnt out and will leave.

    --
    "The avalanch has already started, it is too late for the pebbles to vote." -Kosh
  6. Re:Yes by Hurricane78 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Fuck pizza! There is little worse than pizza if you need to work hard. It makes you tired and sweaty, you suddenly wonder why you have to read things twice, slowly, before you understand them, and your cardiovascular system is basically “sparks and explosions”.

    The best thing to make your brain work? Sleep, air, sleep, water, healthy food and sleep!
    Taking pride in lack of sleep is like taking pride in hitting yourself with a hammer.
    Taking pride in living on coffee, mountain dew and pizza, is like taking pride in drinking a shot glass of poison once a day.
    It is not cool, it is not “manly”, it is not hackerish, is is not geeky.
    It”s Joe-Lower-Class-level retard-“coolness”.

    Real hackers know that the body is the most impressive machine known to man. And that the only thing cooler than having a well set-up, impressive, high-performance computer do what you want, is having a well set-up, impressive, high-performance body/brain do what you want.

    Healthy food is part of a healthy, collaborative effort.

    P.S.: And I don’t mean hippie food that tastes like crap, either. :) I mean a large perfectly slow-oven-cooked steak, some good salad, tasty potatoes with some spring onions and parsley. That’s healthy *and* incredibly tasty. :)

    --
    Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
  7. 40 hours by QuoteMstr · · Score: 5, Insightful

    In this country, our work-week is 40 hours. Our ancestors fought hard and made great sacrifices to win this right and pass it down to us, and I'll be damned if I'll see it steadily erode. Routine unpaid overtime is harmful not only to ourselves individually, but to the entire social contract we've managed to hammer out between capital and labor.

    Respect yourself. Do not work more than 40 hours without getting the same time and a half premium someone in any other field would earn. If a project is late, that's not your fault. It's management's, and management ought to pay for the mistake.