CherryPal's $99 "Odd Lots" Netbook

Robotech_Master writes "CherryPal, which Slashdot last covered back in 2008, has released a $99 netbook, the Africa, aimed at the developing world but (unlike the OLPC) available for sale to the consumer. But unlike most netbooks, the Africa is not actually made to a set design. Instead, it uses a hacker-like approach similar to the way home PC builders build their cheap beige boxes. CherryPal purchases odd lots of whatever components are available most inexpensively, builds netbooks out of them, and calls them Africas. The resulting machines will at least meet and may exceed the minimum specs given on CherryPal's website, and may be built around an ARM, MIPS, or X86-based CPU depending on what parts CherryPal has on hand at the time. The device ships with 'at least' Windows CE or CherryPal's custom 'Green Maraschino' Debian-based Linux distro."

Comments

In other words

[jyoull]

they're using the "Dell Method"

Re:In other words

[Anonymous Coward]

Exactly. I don't think we can even buy beige boxes anymore...

Re:In other words

[chill]

Dell has NOTHING on Packard Bell. I'm not sure what happened to them, but their equipment was shit and totally random. There are a few differences with CherryPal, though.

Since CP has their own Debian distro, people won't have to wonder if their are Linux drivers for the hardware found in the system. If it ships, it works and has drivers. Packard Bell was a challenge. "Oh. They shipped one of THOSE parts this time!"

PB wasn't guaranteeing minimum specs, they were saying exact specs on CPU, RAM and HD. CP's "at least this" is an interesting idea.

Re:In other words

[RMH101]

it's because they're *cheap* - if you want guaranteed hardware for 3 years, you buy corporate desktops and laptops: case in point - Dell have the inspiron and lattitude range of laptops. Pretty much the same thing inside usually - but the latt's are slightly better at taking abuse, fit docking stations, and *guarantee hardware for a set period*. All big vendors do this: IBM, Fujitsu, etc.

Re:In other words

[rainmaestro]

PB is still around in Europe. Last year they were acquired by Acer as a ride-along from the Acer buyout of Gateway.

And yeah, their machines were the pinnacle of shittiness.

Re:In other words

[Drummergeek0]

Oh god, the night mares, WHY DID YOU REMIND ME.

I remember fixing PBs back in the late 90's, one simple upgrade lasted over a year because the computer decided to stop working, then work again, then stop working, etc. Thank god those machines are no longer available.

Re:In other words

[chill]

Yeah, I know. With two major exceptions, I've had fairly good luck with Dell desktops, laptops and servers.

The first they fixed, after lots and lots of threats to pull my business. It only worked because I had a $20,000+ order pending that they made good on swapping out a defective system. I wasn't interested in yet another repair.

The second is a laptop with the same issue (nVidia graphics chipset that had substrate issues and fried itself) that I just gave up on and purchased a replacement motherboard variant with the Intel chipset. Dell just insisted on sending out repair techs every month when it fried itself again. After the third time I told them never mind and purchased a motherboard from Ebay. I just won't but laptops or desktops from them ever again. Servers, okay. Other PCs, no way.

Re:In other words

[jyoull]

Wow. I had forgotten all about Packard Bell. OMG. The pain. The paaaaaaaaiiiiinnnnnnnnn.

Re:In other words

[MBGMorden]

As a former Packard Bell owner, I must agree. My Packard Bell (originally a 486 SX 20Mhz with 2MB of RAM and an 80MB hard drive) was the most non-standard thing I'd ever seen.

Motherboard form factor? Completely made up by them. It had 2 PS/2 ports in the back, a serial port, and a parallel port. It had 4 ISA slots but they were on a riser card. Not reusing this case for anything else.

Power supply? It was reminiscent of the standard AT power supply in that it was hard on/off, but that too was custom. Instead of cables attached to a switch which completed the circuit (or a switch actually on the box), this thing had a giant plastic arm that ran the length of the case from front to back and into the power supply to toggle on and off.

The memory expansion slots? It had 4 empty ones - the base 2MB of memory was soldered straight onto the board. To upgrade the thing you had to fill all 4 slots - all or nothing.

Processor upgrade? They made it an option in the stupidest way. The CPU was soldered straight into the board much like the memory was. If you wanted to upgrade the processor, they provided a SECOND CPU socket that shipped empty. You want to upgrade you had to plug a new CPU into the replacement socket and then use a jumper to tell the board to use that socket instead of the built in CPU.

I did eventually do some upgrades on it. The 80MB hard drive got moved to 800MB. I bumped the RAM from 2MB to 6MB. Put in a sound card and CD-ROM drive. I also eventually got an Intel Overdrive chip for that extra socket and moved from the 486 SX 20Mhz to a 486 DX 75Mhz (strange that a 55Mhz increase in clock speed made such a difference - back then the machine was several times faster - these days 55Mhz isn't even noticeable :)).

Still, upgrading that system always was a hassle to find things that worked. Aside from laptops, that was the last mass produced system I ever owned. I just like having the freedom to mix and match parts as I see fit.

Re:In other words

[rubycodez]

aw yeah, baby, I had gig in place standardized on 8088 Packard Bell, 10mb disk, 512k ram with Hercules graphics cards (with CGA emulator, run full color apps, in the color amber which was standard monitor's)

graphics card *had* to be plugged into slot furthest from the processor or thing would go apeshit at random times. bios would run software it liked. and if bios was cranky would overwrite portions of hard disk

Re:In other words

[Anonymous Coward]

Thank you for your anecdotal evidence, it's completely useless.

Re:In other words

[red_dragon]

Processor upgrade? They made it an option in the stupidest way. The CPU was soldered straight into the board much like the memory was. If you wanted to upgrade the processor, they provided a SECOND CPU socket that shipped empty. You want to upgrade you had to plug a new CPU into the replacement socket and then use a jumper to tell the board to use that socket instead of the built in CPU.

Packard Bell was not alone in that, though. A friend on mine had an IBM PS/ValuePoint 486SX PC with the same arrangement: processor soldered on motherboard, empty Overdrive socket for upgrades. I think Intel was to blame for that as I saw many other vendors doing the same thing, probably to sell the pricey Overdrive upgrades. It turns out that the Overdrive processors weren't any more special, though: we put a regular 486DX2 in the empty socket and the BIOS recognized it right away.

Re:In other words

[asdf7890]

It was similar with 487 maths co-processors and their sockets.

The 486DX has a built-in co-pro, but the 486SX lines "didn't". Well they did, but it was disabled.

Boards would have 486SX (soldered on usually, but not always) and a co-pro sockets which was actually just a normal 486 socket. When you bought a 487 math co-pro unit it was actually a full 486DX - it didn't just take on the extra job like the 387 and 287 chips did, it actually took over from the 486SX chip completely. Overdrive sockets and chips were the same thing: just a standard socket and 486DX with a different label - plug it in and the motherboard turns the other processor off.

Re:In other words

[10101001 10101001]

The CPU was soldered straight into the board much like the memory was. If you wanted to upgrade the processor, they provided a SECOND CPU socket that shipped empty. You want to upgrade you had to plug a new CPU into the replacement socket and then use a jumper to tell the board to use that socket instead of the built in CPU.

Well, the 486SX lacked an FPU (a functioning one, at least). The second socket on most 486SX boards was for the "i487", which was really a 486DX with an extra pin. Later, "Overdrive" processors could be used in the same slot because, as you note, it was just really just a special CPU socket. Since you had to use a jumper to use the second socket, I wonder if an i487 would have actually worked in the socket without the jumper and the jumper thing was just a hack by Packard Bell so you could upgrade using probably cheaper 486DX processors.

Re:In other words

[Schnapple]

The 486DX has a built-in co-pro, but the 486SX lines "didn't". Well they did, but it was disabled.

Boards would have 486SX (soldered on usually, but not always) and a co-pro sockets which was actually just a normal 486 socket. When you bought a 487 math co-pro unit it was actually a full 486DX - it didn't just take on the extra job like the 387 and 287 chips did, it actually took over from the 486SX chip completely. Overdrive sockets and chips were the same thing: just a standard socket and 486DX with a different label - plug it in and the motherboard turns the other processor off.

I had this exact computer he's referring to and I remember all this. I had always heard conflicting stories - either they just went through and intentionally disabled the coprocessor so they could sell this for less money to a different market, or these were 486DX chips where the math coprocessor was broken (similar to how these days AMD will sell a "tri core" processor which is a quad core processor where one of the four cores is defective)

Either way it was asinine and brilliant - they sold less expensive processors to those who wanted them and then if they wanted an upgrade they sold them a second processor.

Re:In other words

[Anonymous Coward]

I just like having the freedom to mix and match parts as I see fit.

Apparently so did Packard Bell.

Re:In other words

[Vintermann]

...while anonymous comments in reply to them are not, or at least today's modders think so.

Re:In other words

[Anonymous Coward]

Is this netbook built in Africa?
Was it designed by Africans?

We all know the answer to that.

When your children are starving because your country has been destroyed by millions of hate-filled, selfish third world parasites, will you then admit that you were wrong all along? What will you tell your children?

Re:In other words

[oakgrove]

I also eventually got an Intel Overdrive chip for that extra socket and moved from the 486 SX 20Mhz to a 486 DX 75Mhz (strange that a 55Mhz increase in clock speed made such a difference - back then the machine was several times faster - these days 55Mhz isn't even noticeable :)).

Yes, that would have made a huge difference. Something like going from a 1.2 GHz Core2Duo to a 3.6 GHz Core2Duo (this is a simplified example for all of you pedants out there). You have to think of the new clock speed as relative to the old (assuming similar processor family), so going from 20 MHz to 75 would have definitely been over 3 times faster not to mention the addition of faster bus speed and a functional math co-processor.

Re:In other words

[camperdave]

The memory expansion slots? It had 4 empty ones [snip] To upgrade the thing you had to fill all 4 slots - all or nothing.

That's the way all memory was at the time: 30 pin SIMMs in banks of four.

Re:In other words

[Pathwalker]

I have to admit; I liked the ISA riser card in my ancient crappy Packard Bell 386sx.

When you wanted to swap cards, you just undid one screw, and the whole assembly (riser card, and the surrounding frame that the cards screwed into) came out. You had unobstructed access to all of the cards, and just plugged the riser card back in once you were done.

Re:In other words

[MBGMorden]

Thanks for the explanation, but I already knew that ;).

I was merely commenting on the fact that it was only a 55Mhz jump that did that. Kinda like old folks reminiscing about how sodas used to cost only a nickel :).

Re:In other words

[Anonymous Coward]

Sorry about that. Looks the pedant was me. :)

Re:In other words

[frosty_tsm]

Dell has NOTHING on Packard Bell. I'm not sure what happened to them,

Packard Bell was bought by Compaq (which became crap). Compaq was bought by HP (which became crap). It's like a virus.

Re:In other words

[WarlockD]

How about a 3 year working Dell Desktop/Laptop/Server tech with more than a thousand calls under my belt?

Their phone support for anything below Gold is bleh. You get four hour service though, your golden. While I can get to the second tier quickly, we will get that part out and fix that computer as quickly as we can. Baring parts not being local, I can usually get parts for any server under an hour here in the Metroplex.

When it works, it works good. When the only part in the nation is in Austin, then your down for a day:P

I can't answer for the front light tech support however. But Dell is trying to make all business class support, even low end, stay in the US.

Re:In other words

[AmberBlackCat]

My aunt got a Packard Bell computer in 1994. It's still working. She still uses it for work. I think she's still buying ink cartridges for the Canon BJ-100 connected to it.

Re:In other words

[WarlockD]

Yea, I remember reading a trade paper about this. The issue was the bus for the 486 was too slow. The original 8087, 287, 387 all just monitored the data bus and some signal pins. Once you sent a x87 op code, the co processor would kick in.

Intel, initaly, just wanted the 486 to be the high end replacement for the 386DX. Remember, the 386DX didn't have the co-processor, but the 486 did. When they were working on the SX chip in the late 90's they were also working on the ideas for the DX2. They concluded that they couldn't get a co-processor to work well with the 486 bus without changing the pin signaling. 486's were just starting to take off in a big way too and Intel didn't want to mess around with the socket till they finished Socket 4.

I was also told from an asside that while the technical reason was good enough, Intel didn't want to deal with the co-processor idea anymore because of support issues. Not to mention having to compete with cheaper co-processors from AMD.

Re:In other words

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm of the opinion that some of them are reasonable value for money: i.e. the cost is proportionate to the quality, yes. I've been involved in the purchase and TCO of a few thousand in my time.

Re:In other words

[petermgreen]

To upgrade the thing you had to fill all 4 slots
Were they 30 pin simm slots? on 486 boards and 386DX boards it was normal to have to fill such slots in groups of four since the bus was four times as wide as the modules.

Re:In other words

[rrohbeck]

If you wanted to upgrade the processor, they provided a SECOND CPU socket that shipped empty. You want to upgrade you had to plug a new CPU into the replacement socket and then use a jumper to tell the board to use that socket instead of the built in CPU.

That was standard Intel tech at the time. Just like you expanded a 386 with a 387, you expanded a 486SX (which didn't have a FPU) with a 487SX - except that the 487SX was a full 486 with one or two pins changed and the 486SX was disabled.

Re:In other words

[ricegf]

"Since CP has their own Debian distro, people won't have to wonder if their are Linux drivers for the hardware found in the system."

What a bizarre thing to say. Do you really think that if you buy an Ubuntu netbook from Dell, System76, or Zareason, that they won't include drivers for the hardware? Seriously??

Re:In other words

[jseale]

If Dell had their hands in the OLPC, it'd come out something like this. Now if somebody could market this kind of thing here in the States, that'd be wunderbar. Nice going CherryPal!

Re:In other words

[drinkypoo]

Dell has NOTHING on Packard Bell. I'm not sure what happened to them, but their equipment was shit and totally random.

Packard Bell had their own boards made in many cases, they discovered the idea of commodity hardware too late and died. I have a Gateway GT5475 here next to me with an ECS motherboard, it's even silkscreened as such, with no Gateway markings on the board at all. If P-B had done that, they might still be with us. Of course, the number on the front of a P-B was only a small part of the story. You have to look at the serial number sticker which also has the full model number.

Dell was the first big box computer manufacturer to be built completely out of COTS parts. As such they had to do zero hardware R&D. All they had to do to get a machine out of the door was to get the drivers ironed out. And I imagine that today they have deals where if they find out that a problem is based on the mainboard, that they get the redesign for free. The motherboard maker will want to do an up-rev anyway (There's already a version 1.1 of my Gigabyte MA770T-UD3P and it's a fairly new board) so it works out fine for everyone. P-B wanted to make all the profit, and ended up making an epitaph. (It's now just a marque of Acer.)

Re:In other words

[Eunuchswear]

I thought ROHS got rid of it all?

Re:In other words

[Anonymous Coward]

andy zebrowitz

Interesting

[stoolpigeon]

I first heard about these via the white African (a tech guy in Nairobi). There is some interesting discussion there that revolved around capabilities, how realistic the $99 price point is outside the developed world and durability.
 
Getting these in the U.S. at $99 is pretty easy, but could one get them into an African country at that price? Max Seybold says yes, but I'd like to see it first. Then the question is how well it will sell, even at that price point when up against used hardware with better specs.
 
I'm all for more choices at the lower end of things. And I think this product is great even if for nothing more than the conversations it can generate that will bring more awareness about the needs in developing countries. But ultimately I wonder if this kind of thing is just a stop gap anyway until cheap smart phones and reliable data access are global.

Re:Interesting

[harry666t]

> I think this product is great even if for nothing more
> than the conversations it can generate that will bring
> more awareness about the needs in developing countries.

These so-called "developing" countries were doing just fine, and had a lot less problems *before* we had *any* awareness of their existence.

Re:Interesting

[rpbird]

Outside the core cities, poverty is so intense in rural areas, I don't see this device getting to the people who could actually benefit from it.

Re:Interesting

[tverbeek]

These so-called "developing" countries were doing just fine, and had a lot less problems *before* we had *any* awareness of their existence.

Yes, but since then the damage has been done, and I think the "developed" world bears some responsibility for cleaning up the mess it created.

Re:Interesting

[Unequivocal]

You mean before the Romans and the Carthaginians had their little dust up? Africa and Europe have been interconnected for thousands of years.

Re:Interesting

[Darkness404]

Yeah, they were doing just fine with cannibalism, genocidal wars, civil wars, and general instability.

Re:Interesting

[Anonymous Coward]

Wich there was none of before they were "discovered"

Re:Interesting

[uglyduckling]

I'm not buying that this is a 'product' at all. They don't even guarantee what CPU architecture you will get. This isn't a frugal hardware company buying "odd lots" of components, this is a company taking $99 from people, then buying job lots of whatever cheap ready-built laptops they can get wholesale, kitting them out with an OS then shipping them. There's no way they're tooled out to build laptops with ARM, Intel, AMD, etc., different size screens (do they redesign the case each time??). It's a nice idea, but basically they're a computer reseller that guarantees low prices but not guaranteeing what you'll actually get.

Re:Interesting

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, it was all cake and ponies before the white man showed up. The intrinsic nature of mankind as a whole is pure and wholesome. Greed, war, slavery, and famine were new concepts originated by Europeans.

There may be truth in what you say, but if so, I think the underlying causes have to do with economics and technology. Basic human nature is roughly similar across cultures. Right?

Re:Interesting

[CAIMLAS]

If I were to buy a gun from my neighbor and shoot myself in the head, my neighbor would not be responsible for homicide. If my neighbor were to use the money from the gun sale to buy crack - get addicted and ruin his life - I would not be responsible.

What you are proposing is a world where such scenarios as noted above are true.

Re:Interesting

[stoolpigeon]

I think that it's difficult to discuss Africa as a whole sometimes, and there are a lot of places that are like you describe. Niger would be a good example. At the same time, a lot of Africa is not that bad off, and enabling people with technology is a big part of making it even better.

I think the largest advances in this regard have come via mobile, but I think devices like this may provide for some needs in niches that are not really being served right now.

The economic impact of cell phones alone has been huge in many poor nations. They have been described by some as a "ticket out of poverty". Having seen some of these great results I tend to err on the side of, "Let's get these out there and see how they do" rather than "That will never work."

Re:Interesting

[Robotech_Master]

They might simply be buying a lot of different-sized cases, different motherboards, and so on.

But I'll ask about that when I interview Max Seybold tomorrow.

Re:Interesting

[bhtooefr]

The Chinese manufacturers at the very least make ARM and MIPS 7" laptops in the same case design they've ripped off from each other, with varying designs.

Re:Interesting

[stoolpigeon]

And will the results of this interview be publicly available at some point? If so, where?

Re:Interesting

[Myopic]

What do you mean, before there were human beings? Yeah, okay, good point, but now that humans have evolved, we have human problems to solve. Not everyone can be a tree or a tiger.

Re:Interesting

[Robotech_Master]

I'll be writing them up for TeleRead.org. I may also post the audio of it as a podcast afterward if Seybold gives me permission.

Re:Interesting

[uglyduckling]

Please do. However, since most laptop/netbook designs have the case and motherboard designed for each other, I'd be amazed if they really are cobbling together laptops from spare parts. RAM, hard drives and optical drives maybe, but I suspect in general they're just shifting job lots of machines. Check out their flagship "Bing" laptop. Apart from giving the laptop the same name as the MS search engine (surely designed to attract controversy and hence publicity) if you click on the thumbnail you can see it's a rip-off of the polycarbonate MacBook, and not a very flattering photograph either. I can't help thinking this company is just a far-Eastern box shifter, maybe with some nice ideas at heart, but not a designer of original equipment. Maybe I'm just a cynic...

Re:Interesting

[Robotech_Master]

Well, I'm going to get my hands on review units of the Africa and the Bing so I'll see how they look in person. I can't speak to the Bing's similarity to the Mac, but I will note that I only heard of Bing a couple of months ago and I gather CherryPal was making its prior model of Bing earlier than that.

And I'll definitely be asking him about the components vs. job lots matter in the interview tomorrow. His blog post certainly makes it SOUND like components.

Of course, even if they are job lots and not hand-assembled, the Africa still looks a pretty good value. As I pointed out in my article linked from the OP, the closest thing to those basic specs is the Menq EasyPC (similar specs but less memory), and that normally wholesales at $80. Getting something at least slightly better for $99 retail seems reasonable by comparison.

Someone down-thread is talking about reconditioned Eee 7" models costing $100. I haven't been able to find anything like that for less than $250. And while my budget might stretch to a $99 Africa, it certainly won't stretch to a $250 Eee.

Re:Interesting

[Mr. Slippery]

Apart from giving the laptop the same name as the MS search engine (surely designed to attract controversy and hence publicity)

If you're going with a "cherry" theme, you're going to use the name "bing" at some point.. Cherrypal's site says they launched July 21, 2008, and Google shows hits on "cherrypal bing" that date to January 2009, well before MS rebranded its search engine. So if anything, it's MS who stole the name.

Re:Interesting

[tverbeek]

Which of these scenarios is analogous to when foreign military powers draw arbitrary lines on a map, divide societies and put unlike cultures together, disrupt established trade relationships, replace local leaders with clueless governors, take natural resources, then finally get tired of putting down local opposition, and leave the dysfunctional systems they imposed for the locals to try to make work? Is that "buying a gun" or "buying crack"? I'm having trouble oversimplifying the situation.

Re:Interesting

[Robotech_Master]

Here's my account of, excerpts from, and opinions about the interview.

It's 3,300 words long. (Yes, yes, I know, "TL; DR". :P )

seems a bit pricey

[castironpigeon]

Considering you can get legit hardware in a netbook now for around $200, getting what is essentially a bag o' crap for half that isn't much of deal.

Re:seems a bit pricey

[Yvan256]

Even worst, a bag o' random crap.

Re:seems a bit pricey

[killmenow]

A bag of random crap shouldn't cost more than a dollar. But at that price, I'd buy three.

Re:seems a bit pricey

[spike2131]

Depends on how easy the crap is to swap out of the bag.

$200 and no ability to fix things is way worse than $99 and an easy way to replace what breaks. Especially in Africa, where everything breaks, and jury-rigged fixes are the norm.

Re:seems a bit pricey

[Anonymous Coward]

Especially in Africa, where everything breaks...

Are you saying that out of any extensive experience or did you just pull that little factoid out of your bum?

Re:seems a bit pricey

[b0bby]

And you'd pay five bucks shipping...

Re:seems a bit pricey

[RMH101]

well, if you get consistent hardware at least you can cannibalise one machine that's died to fix a few others that have gone faulty. If you get random crap then you can't do this. $200 and standard hardware that you can swap out is probably better than $99 and you can't fix it.

Re:seems a bit pricey

[Yvan256]

It seems CherryPal's netbook kind of goes against that jury-rigging fact. If there's dozens of types of parts, you probably won't be able to make one working laptop from a few non-working ones. Unless CherryPal planned for that, of course.

Re:seems a bit pricey

[cerberusss]

Considering you can get legit hardware in a netbook now for around $200, getting what is essentially a bag o' crap for half that isn't much of deal.

It's half the price. I think that's a big deal, if the $100 hardware will service your needs.

Some people don't consider a $500 Apple Mac Mini a big deal. But sometimes, I buy one second hand for $250. Why? Because it's half the price.

You can also think of it some other way. Put the savings in your pension. You'll be glad when you're 80 and you can afford a beautiful blonde Swedish girl to wipe your ass.

Re:seems a bit pricey

[Robotech_Master]

And if all I want to do is surf the web, check e-mail, read e-books, and write, hell, a 2-pound Africa will be a hell of a lot better than the 8 pound Toshiba Satellite laptop I currently have. And at $100, it will be cheaper than even the cheapest iPod Touch. It's not like I'm going to be rendering Avatar on it or something.

Re:seems a bit pricey

[Anonymous Coward]

Let's see... the rare presence of air conditioning means fluctuates in temperature and humidity and virtually ensures high levels of particulates (dust, grit, etc). In addition to this, the spotty electrical service available outside of large cities is not particularly good for electronics.

Failure rates should be higher in the absence of any mitigating factors (e.g., the buyers being more careful than American consumers with their investment).

Re:seems a bit pricey

[Anonymous Coward]

Nice avoidance of the n word fellas.

Re:seems a bit pricey

[Archangel Michael]

Pay additional shippiing and processing, and they'll double your order!

Re:seems a bit pricey

[Anonymous Coward]

Sorry that everyone doesn't subscribe to the same vulgar colloquialisms as you.

Re:seems a bit pricey

[Anonymous Coward]

whoosh!

Re:seems a bit pricey

[wastedlife]

The most informative "whoosh" post I've seen, bravo!

Re:seems a bit pricey

[CAIMLAS]

"Everything breaks" in Africa not so much due to an inherent quality possessed by the continent, but by its people. It's difficult to 'have something nice' when doing so makes you a target for theft and murder pretty much anywhere on the continent.

Connectivity goes down because the power and communication lines are stolen for their value in raw materials.

Power goes down because transformers are stolen for their resale value. Or maybe some militant/rebel/whatever shot it for fun. The power then does not come up for weeks because the company responsible has to find someone capable of fixing it who isn't off somewhere drinking off his last pay check.

Then, someone tries to fix the mess and jury rigs it. The company 'representative' comes out to fix it, see that it was "fixed" and goes to find a bottle.

My aunt was a missionary to Togo, Africa. Not necessarily representative of the continent, but a part of Africa none the less. They had to live in a walled compound with its own dedicated generators due to the robber-barons who lived by. The generators were primarily for nighttime security lighting and indoor lighting/computer use for a couple hours. They had wired electricity only several times in the decade that they were there (due to the lines being constantly torn up for scrap). They finally did fibre a couple years ago and the area has had intermittent connectivity, but still no regular power.

They usually heard gunfire at night, and often found where the bullets impacted the walls.

Painting the residents of Africa as victims is foolish. It shows the people of Africa disrespect - as if they are unable to shape their own destiny. Africa is the way it is because the Africans living there refuse (or do not know how to) to make it better.

A $100 laptop won't make any difference, except maybe lead to a couple more thefts.

Re:seems a bit pricey

[LanMan04]

Assuming the website doesn't crash.

Oh BoC, why hast thou forsaken me?

Re:seems a bit pricey

[couchslug]

"Painting the residents of Africa as victims is foolish. It shows the people of Africa disrespect - as if they are unable to shape their own destiny."

Painting them as victims is delectable because it feeds the Cult of Universal White Guilt, and is also handy when shilling for "non-profit" charities (who still pay the staff...and leadership).

The people of Africa showed what they think of modern day colonials during the incident in Mogadishu made famous by the movie "Blackhawk Down". Leave Africa alone, buy what they have to sell when useful, arm the good guys when there are any, and they can solve their problems or not.

Meddling doesn't help. (For example, if we actually wanted to save the victims of the Janjaweed, we'd hand them Kalashnikovs so they could fight for their freedom. Instead, we sponsor ghettoization in refugee camps and maintain their victim status...)

Re:seems a bit pricey

[sunderland56]

Seems a *LOT* pricey for a computer you can't run any software on (other than what comes pre-packaged with the unit).

With a wide variety of operating systems, processors, and capabilities, who the heck would ever develop software for it?

Re:seems a bit pricey

[mechsoph]

debian (or netbsd)

Re:seems a bit pricey

[ushering05401]

Are you saying that out of any extensive experience or did you just pull that little factoid out of your bum?

I thought National Geographic did a report on the underground electronics trade thriving in parts of Africa, but am not finding a link. Here is something from a site I don't know much about, but it matches what I have heard elsewhere about the underground trade in product made from 100% salvage material: http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/ghana/090427/cell-phone-waste

The first time something breaks is just the beginning of the product life-cycle. The GP would have been better off with different phrasing, but I think this is what was being referenced. This African underground has been reported on television and the net.

Re:seems a bit pricey

[Carnildo]

Painting all of Africa with a single brush is just as foolish. This $100 laptop might not be such a hot idea in Zimbabwe, but I expect it will do just fine in Kenya or South Africa.

Re:seems a bit pricey

[CAIMLAS]

Yet, 25 years ago, South Africa was on par with much of the Western world - industrially, economically, and culturally. What happened?

Re:seems a bit pricey

[rrohbeck]

And they have your card number and will keep shipping you bags of crap - at a subscription rate of only $19.99 per month.

Re:seems a bit pricey

[cerberusss]

And at $100, it will be cheaper than even the cheapest iPod Touch

And a bigger screen to boot, and perhaps even better battery life. Because the iPod Touches are real juice guzzlers when using WiFi.

Re:seems a bit pricey

[MikeBabcock]

Seems half price to me. Most people will downgrade slightly to buy two for the price of one.

Hmm, I wonder if I can cherry-pick parts

[davidwr]

I wonder, if I'm willing to wait or pay extra, can I specify parts, like "any x86" or "anything but x86"?

Re:Hmm, I wonder if I can cherry-pick parts

[Anonymous Coward]

Cherry-pick your Cherry-pal? Genius!

Re:Hmm, I wonder if I can cherry-pick parts

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

Quantity 1? Probably not.

Quantity 100+ I suspect they'd be more than happy to talk.

Re:Hmm, I wonder if I can cherry-pick parts

[bhtooefr]

At quantity 100, though, you could get better machines for less money directly from China.

Just look on alibaba for ARM or MIPS, you'll find stuff.

Re:Hmm, I wonder if I can cherry-pick parts

[lawpoop]

Here's an idea: buy a bunch and re-sell specific configurations.

I can't wait to see this avaialble in the UK

[Chrisq]

I can't wait to see this avaialble in the UK just to see how much it will cost. I bet about £120 about $190.

Re:I can't wait to see this avaialble in the UK

[Robotech_Master]

Actually, according to their website, they'll ship anywhere in the world for $19 flat rate shipping. So it will cost whatever $119 comes out to in pounds whenever you order it.

Re:I can't wait to see this avaialble in the UK

[Maddog Batty]

plus 17.5% VAT (I doubt that they would be able to get one sent over before the new year).

£87 total http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=119%24+x+1.175+in+%C2%A3

Not bad. Might think about getting one.

Re:I can't wait to see this avaialble in the UK

[Anonymous Coward]

Plus customs/vat/wtfe else the govt wants to charge that day.

Re:I can't wait to see this avaialble in the UK

[danimrich]

Plus import taxes and duties. Maybe.

Re:I can't wait to see this avaialble in the UK

[petermgreen]

Coming into the UK it's value is low enough to avoid duty but (assuming the vendor doesn't lie on the customs form) it almost certainly will be hit for VAT and the carrier will almost certainly slap on a handling charge (this seems to vary a lot) for collecting that VAT.

cool

[Sir_Real]

That's not bad for an open device that will run hostap. At that price, these are essentially disposable. 1800mah is fully powerable by a 28 watt solar charger. You could build motion capture field cameras or something out of them. I love it when tech gets cheap.

Re:cool

[drinkypoo]

That's not bad for an open device that will run hostap.

Most NICs won't work in Master mode, only a couple of spendy intel NICs using ndiswrapper and a handful of the Atheros ones are really known to do it faithfully. That eliminates a lot of the value right there, if you don't know what you'll be getting. And no, USB to WiFi is not acceptable, especially with so little processor. On the other hand, they're still hitting a price point that nobody else seems to be covering yet, in spite of numerous promises to do so at various trade shows.

Re:cool

[technosnobbery]

They'd better be disposable - can you imagine repairs on a $99 grab-bag of parts? This is an excellent way to add to the piles of e-waste already streaming towards these same countries.

Re:cool

[Daengbo]

If you want known hardware (but no LCD) for $99, take a look at my sig and find Norhtec's Gecko Surfboard booth at CES in LV.

It's the anti-apple

[Overzeetop]

They're slogan should be "works with nothing." How can you develop much of anything with such a shotgun approach to hardware. It's more like a phone family than a computer. I'm sure it can be done, but nothing will run quickly (since everything has to be interpreted for the processor installed) unless it's compiled across all chipsets. Talk about a driver support nightmare.

This would be good for the hacker kids of the 1970s/1980s - lots of time to play around, no mature apps (that cost less than $1000), and no real expectation that you could get real work done on a small computer.

Re:It's the anti-apple

[tepples]

I'm sure it can be done, but nothing will run quickly (since everything has to be interpreted for the processor installed) unless it's compiled across all chipsets.

You can probably write the application in an interpreted dynamic language and make it fast enough if your interpreter and libraries are compiled for all chips. That's the point of developing in Python or JavaScript.

Re:It's the anti-apple

[Nursie]

Have you ever heard of linux?

Debian (the basis of Ubuntu and by the sounds of TFA the basis of the cherrypal distro) has most applications compiled across very many architectures. It's already in place, drivers for a lot of stuff will be in the kernel. No problem!

(well, not quite, but it does help).

Re:It's the anti-apple

[sandmaninator]

Nice sig. One who complains about stupid people ought to know how to spell...

Re:It's the anti-apple

[MonsterTrimble]

How can you develop much of anything with such a shotgun approach to hardware...This would be good for the hacker kids of the 1970s/1980s - lots of time to play around, no mature apps (that cost less than $1000), and no real expectation that you could get real work done on a small computer.

How do we develop programs for anything? We have OSes that run on LOTS of different sets of hardware, and there are lots of programs that run across lots of different OSes. We talk about these daily on Slashdot: Firefox, Thunderbird, Open Office, Pidgin... the list goes on and on. And there is no way you can call any of those apps NOT mature.

Re:It's the anti-apple

[RMH101]

I'm sure you'd love the job of installing it on 50 of these at a time, all full of random crappy old hardware.

Re:It's the anti-apple

[Steve Max]

You assume they need to offer binary compatibility for different architectures; they don't. You install everything from the repositories, which will have ARM, x86/x86_64, MIPS etc versions for everything; and those versions will have been tested by the large Debian community for each architecture. All that is needed is source-code compatibility, which is usually ensured in FLOSS.

Now, WinCE is another beast. I have no idea about their plans for that; but in Linux, there is no problem with this strategy.

Re:It's the anti-apple

[PenisLands]

You're a time cocker. I bet you own an iMac or something. Listen, you can enjoy your shiny white commercial stuff which 'just works'. But don't try to discourage others.

Re:It's the anti-apple

[PenisLands]

I'd like to add, I was mostly joking with my post. But I do think that just because something doesn't seem useful or appealing to you, it doesn't mean that it won't be useful for others. Not everybody is a web designer/graphic artist/gamer.

Re:It's the anti-apple

[jruschme]

The problem is that you are thinking of it as a general-purpose computer rather than an appliance.

Look at it this way- I go to Best Buy and purchase a particular model of wireless router; it is version 'n' of the hardware and runs a Linux core. The next week, I go to Staples and purchase another of the exact same brand and model of router, only to receive version 'n+1' which now runs VxWorks. Both meet the same functional specifications as outlined on the package and both have the same configuration GUI. Nowhere was I guaranteed that I would get a Linux-based router.

Its the same here. Each Africa may have different internal hardware, but that is all hidden by running different ports of the same OS and applications and only guaranteeing the same minimal functional level. The issue comes when a power user decides to move beyond the installed functionality by adding a software package which is not available for the archtecture of his specific Africa (ever try to find modern CE software for anything other than ARM?), but this is not the target audience of the device.

Re:It's the anti-apple

[Dishevel]

It is funny that you post on /. and yet have no idea how hardware and OS's work together. Or are you just typing cause you could find nothing better to do?

Re:It's the anti-apple

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, yes, I would. What kind of geek are you to refuse an such an offer??

Re:It's the anti-apple

[mcgrew]

They're slogan should be "works with nothing."

Dew knot truss yore spill chucker.

Re:It's the anti-apple

[RMH101]

Seriously? You have nothing better to do than repeatedly install an OS on different hardware? I'd rather play with my arduino...

Re:It's the anti-apple

[WegianWarrior]

Sudo apt-get install (package name)
Repeat 50X.
And the hardship is... where?

Re:It's the anti-apple

[Anonymous Coward]

Or Android, which runs on ARM and x86, and there's probably a MIPS port as well. The apps are Dalvik VM / Hybrid Java/Touch/Google things.

http://www.mips.com/android/ yup

Re:It's the anti-apple

[rainmaestro]

The bulk of the installs can automated. Once you have a boot environment up with SSH, a remote script can handle the actual install process. Most of the random hardware can still be autodetected in a lot of distros. Sure, it'll take a while, but most of the work is really just watching a script run. I can think of worse ways to spend my day (like babysitting a SQL Server 2008 install).

Re:It's the anti-apple

[sgtrock]

Well, you did say the "job", as in 'paid', right? In this economy? Seriously? I think you'd have geeks lined up around the corner for the opportunity.

Re:It's the anti-apple

[Nursie]

Why would you do that?

These things are going to be built in batches, not in one-off weird configs. If I'm reading it right. There may be a bit of work every time the hardware changes, sure, it's not a trivial thing, but I didn't get the impression that every one was going to be a unique snowflake.

Re:It's the anti-apple

[i.r.id10t]

Actually, apt-get on one box.

Then do

dpkg --get-selections > my-packages

Copy the my-packages file to the new machine. Then do

dpkg --set-selections my-packages

Then run dselect and choose the option that installs selected packages.

*if* you happen to be on the same architecture, you can copy the deb files from /var/cache/apt/archives to the target machine too, or make it available via a network share, and save on re-downloading them.

Re:It's the anti-apple

[mdwh2]

Remind me how many processors, not to mention operating systems, graphics chipsets and so on has the Mac been across, again?

Re:It's the anti-apple

[sowth]

Or you can just release source packages and use a compiler which supports a vast number of architectures.

Re:It's the anti-apple

[bhtooefr]

They said it was theoretically possible, but considering the Chinese machines they're using for most of the stuff, there's only a few different chipsets in play - one Chinese MIPS chipset, one VIA ARM chipset, and a couple Samsung ARM chipsets. Of course, there is also the x86 stuff, wonder what they're using there - probably Xcore86 and AMD Geode.

Re:It's the anti-apple

[CranberryKing]

How about installing a crappy old OS 50 times on good hardware? Wait? That is my job.

Re:It's the anti-apple

[Cwix]

Count me in that line, id love to do something like that, as someone who is still learning, the opportunity to learn and the challenge of installing the same os on 50 different machines, actually sounds fun. Id even do it in my spare time, although not at the rate id do it if paid.

Re:It's the anti-apple

[ushering05401]

Seriously? You have nothing better to do than repeatedly install an OS on different hardware? I'd rather play with my arduino...

Who said anything about repeatedly? Anytime you need to do something repetitive it might be better to chain some tools together and let logic do the lifting.

Re:It's the anti-apple

[TheRaven64]

A decent bytecode interpreter is around a tenth the speed of native code. With a 400MHz MIPS chip as the slowest CPU, that brings you down to around the speed of a mid-80s workstation running compiled native code. JIT compiling runs anywhere from around three quarters to double the speed of static compiling, but incurs some extra memory penalties (not ideal on a machine with 256MB of RAM and no swap) and some startup time. If you want decent performance on that kind of hardware, you probably want to go with statically compiled code built for the architecture in question.

By the way, most of the 400MHz MIPS chips that come in cheap laptops don't have an FPU. Running JavaScript code on any machine without an FPU is painfully slow due to the braindead way in which the language specification describes how numbers should behave.

Re:It's the anti-apple

[RMH101]

feel your pain, bro.

CherryPal Bing... hmm...

[uglyduckling]

That's an interesting laptop. Looks like a rip-off of the polycarbonate MacBook, sounds like a rip-off of the Microsoft search engine. I predict FAIL.

Re:CherryPal Bing... hmm...

[randallman]

Valid points. However, you're overlooking the significance of the $99 price point. This is what should be defined as a netbook instead of the $400 + options we've been calling netbooks. I'm impressed that they got wireless g and a 4 hour battery at this price. And the specs are very usable for a Linux distro. Use Abiword and Gnumeric instead of openoffice and firefox 3.5 is pretty zippy. That'll take care of most users. It probably doesn't have enough speed to handle flash, but what does. How's gnash coming these days?

These would do well if they could get them in Walmart. $99 for many people is not a large purchase and many people would pick them up as an extra "surf from the couch" laptop. I hope there continues to be a sub $100 laptop. Next year, maybe it will be a cortex A9 with some 3d graphics capabilities, wireless n and a 20G SSD. And maybe we'll even see models close to $70.

Re:CherryPal Bing... hmm...

[uglyduckling]

The Bing isn't $99, it's $350. I confused the issue by referring to another laptop by the same manufacturer. Either way they look like a cheap fly-by-night operation. The picture of the Bing machine (which appears to be their flagship) has got the protective plastic coating still on the screen, but half peeled-off at the corner.

My momma always said,

[Anonymous Coward]

"Life was like a box of chocolates. You never know what you're gonna get."

Re:My momma always said,

[Atomm]

Momma always said, "If you have nothing good to say, then say nothing at all."

You sir, should listen to Momma....

Re:My momma always said,

[Almahtar]

Oh look. A chocolate. And what's this? A chocolate.

Wait these are all chocolates. I predict chocolate.

I have a feeling

[Anonymous Coward]

that the Nigerian scam emails are going to be increasing in volume soon.

Specs

[Anonymous Coward]

they are:
a 400 MHz processor
256 MB RAM,
2 GB flash memory,
Ethernet,
Wi-Fi,
2xUSB
a 7 screen

(from here) as the links are down

Re:Specs

[Steve Max]

That's the minimum specs. They get whatever they can above that; looks like currently, they're offering a 1.6GHz CPU (Atom, probably), 10.2' screen and 160GB HDD.

Re:Specs

[Robotech_Master]

They were when they started shipping them, according to Max's blog post.. They could be offering anything at this point. The only thing they guarantee is that you'll get at least those minimum specs. They don't guarantee that you'll get anything better, but they say you probably will.

My gut feeling is that you'll almost always come out ahead of the minimum specs on at least one or two facets (like, you might get a better processor if nothing else, or more disk space if nothing else) just because given how prices fluctuate on parts it would be impossible for them to exactly meet the minimum without specifically trying. They would deliberately have set the minimum to be a fallback position that they knew for a fact they could always better at that price range.

Re:Specs

[CAIMLAS]

Yes, now the question is: is it x86 or ARM? Or something else?

$100 for an ARM or PPC machine with those specs isn't bad. It's not great, but it's not bad, either.

However, those specs on an x86 machine are astoundingly poor, and not worth the money. An x86 CPU of 400MHz won't perform nearly as wellas an ARM or PPC, for starters. Also, that's the "minimum" spec. What if I want a 7" or 9" screen, but they're shipping old POS Dells from '2001 with 14" screens?

Are they buying used crap off ebay for $20 and reselling it with a battery refurbish? What's the deal?

Re:Specs

[bhtooefr]

They're getting Chinese defective units and selling them for $100, whatever they are, and adding an OS.

Most of what they'll sell, I suspect, will be ARM and MIPS, but the 10.2" screen that I've seen mentioned before tells me that they're shipping scratch and dent S40 (a standard Atom netbook architecture that everyone copies in China) machines, at least as of that blog entry.

Re:Specs

[Anonymous Coward]

Congratulations, now that link's down too.

Re:Specs

[dangitman]

Hmmm. When we're talking about a Netbook, which is supposed to be small, isn't a 10.2" screen actually less than a 7" screen? It's like saying; "Hey, buy our mobile phone, it's much bigger than an iPhone!"

Re:Specs

[CAIMLAS]

Which blog entry is that? I missed it. :-/

Re:Specs

[petermgreen]

While the first eeepcs did use a 7 inch screen they also had a load of space arround it so the overall size was about the same as the 9 inch models that arrived afterwards. They keyboard on those already feels pretty cramped so I doubt going much smaller is worthwhile.

Re:Specs

[Robotech_Master]

It's the one linked from the the write-up, the link about buying odd lots.

Slashdotted

[cerberusss]

may be built around an ARM, MIPS, or X86-based CPU depending on what parts CherryPal has on hand at the time

I believe this also goes for their webserver, which is now in its last death throes.

Niche Market

[Ukab the Great]

If you:

1. Have a 2 year-old who's obsessed with daddy's laptop who really needs his own so he'll stop bugging you
2. AND you don't want to have to hunt on ebay for an OLPC child-proof laptop that costs the same as it did when it was purchased two years ago
3. AND you don't want to pay over $100 for something that will get destroyed in the first 6 months of usage

Then it's not a bad deal.

Re:Niche Market

[MBGMorden]

1. Have a 2 year-old who's obsessed with daddy's laptop who really needs his own so he'll stop bugging you

My 18 month old niece has this fascination and I found a far cheaper solution - she plays (supervised - usually I'm sitting with her) with my old broken laptop. It was in the junk drawer anyways (all the salvageable parts were recycled) and she just seems more interested in banging on the keys than seeing anything on screen, so it's all good.

Even at $99 I still don't think I'd turn her loose on a working laptop :).

Re:Niche Market

[Aggrajag]

Well, at least there's one Slashdotter besides me that has kids :) I am contemplating about buying one, but would like to know the exact CPU and video decoding capabilities.

Re:Niche Market

[negRo_slim]

If you:

1. Never bought into the netbook hoopla
2. Have 99 bucks in disposable income
3. Are willing to give it a try


Then it's not a bad deal.

Re:Niche Market

[david_thornley]

One problem with getting a kid is you're not going to know the exact CPU and video decoding capabilities ahead of time.

Re:Niche Market

[MikeBabcock]

You mean you make yours the old fashioned way?

Re:Niche Market

[Robotech_Master]

The niche is a little larger than that, actually, and it's an entirely different one.

The target are people who need Internet access but can't afford anything better. As more and more government and other services nudge people toward the Internet, those below the "digital divide" have an increasingly hard time accessing those services.

I talked with their chairman about it, and wrote up the interview last night.

Re:Niche Market

[FrankieBaby1986]

spare the rod, spoil the brat? He's 2. Tell him No.

ARM/MIPS or X86?

[RMH101]

Oh come on. For heaven's sake at least standardise on an architecture. I've no problem with some hardware variance (although god help you if you want to image the things) but completely different architectures? It's like feeding Africa by posting out half-eaten leftovers rather than aid parcels.

Re:ARM/MIPS or X86?

[woodcutter]

Sorry, your asking Max to make up his mind . . .?

Re:ARM/MIPS or X86?

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

I'd be more concerned about the prospect of getting a mix of linux and WinCE, myself.

Obviously, none of your standard corporate IT minion strategies are going to work with this stuff; but I'd take a mix of architectures, all running linux, over a bunch of machines of a single architecture, running a mix of linux and WinCE.

Once you get beyond the bootloader, debian/X86 feels almost the same as debian/ARM. WinCE feels like neither linux nor real windows.

Re:ARM/MIPS or X86?

[Robotech_Master]

Personally, I think it's kind of neat that they can make cheap machines out of literally whatever they can get their hands on. It's kind of like something Cory Doctorow would write.

Re:ARM/MIPS or X86?

[Ukab the Great]

Actually, that happens a fair amount in the 1st world food industry where they use whatever commodity ingredient is cheapest at the time. That's why you see ingrediant labels stating "may contain one or more of the following: soybean oil, sunflower oil, lard, peanut oil" etc.

Re:ARM/MIPS or X86?

[RMH101]

....and I wouldn't have a problem if some shipped with RAM made by Hynix, some by Micron - it's functionally the same. If it said "may contain one of more of the following: soybean oil, sunflower oil or boiled stoat" then I'd have an issue. Get my drift?

Re:ARM/MIPS or X86?

[Robotech_Master]

You specify which OS you want at time of order, in the "order instructions" box. If you say "give me all Linux, please" they'll do it for you.

Windows might be more of a standardization issue. From reading between the lines in their blog post (where Max said you'd get "at least" Windows CE, but not Vista or 7), I got the feeling that you might get either Windows CE or Windows XP, depending on which OS the processor they had available that day would support.

Re:ARM/MIPS or X86?

[glop]

That's a bit extreme I agree, but at the same time, it's pretty manageable with Debian:
  - install software the same way : check (apt-get install)
  - browse web : check (firefox, html and javascript and no freaking ActiveX to require a specific arch)
  - write you own architecture independent programs : check (shell scripts, python, perl, javascript)
  - word processing/spreadsheet: check (gnumeric and abiword for instance)

I have done real work on much slower hardware and I don't think the architecture really matters that much. It could be an issue for large installs (say a school district) but for individuals with little money and a lot of time it doesn't seem like an issue.

Also, please note that the DIY potential is pretty good (USB master, CPU, screen, small size etc.) and even American DIYers might welcome this. It's the price of 2 Arduinos and much cheaper than a buglabs main unit.

Finally, the site is slashdotted, so it really looks like a great marketting idea ;-)
 

Re:ARM/MIPS or X86?

[Anonymous Coward]

You hate ARM and MIPS? Is that what you're getting at?

Re:ARM/MIPS or X86?

[sowth]

It would also be great for children. There are plenty of kids who don't have a computer at all because they are too expensive. I only got one as a kid because the Atari 130XEs were only $125 at the time. With advances in chips, I don't understand why we can't make them cheaper.

I'm sure it would be possible to make a really low powered $20 computer with a microcontroller and other common chips. Before I had the strokes and kidney failure, it was my dream to design, manufacture and sell cheap computers. At least we are starting to see companies doing this.

- write you own architecture independent programs : check (shell scripts, python, perl, javascript)

You left out C. C is quite architecture independent. It is the compiled binaries which aren't. In fact, a with slower processor it is a better idea to use C when possible. Javascript would be a bad idea for quite a few things on a 400 MHz machine. My 900MHz EEE running firefox has very noticeable slowdown problems with javascript.

Python would still be great for prototyping. Shell scripts are great for simple, one off things. But C is what you want for most jobs, or your computer will be slow as hell. Java would work if the binaries were precompiled instead of JIT (makes startup slow).

Perl may not be so bad after startup either because (from what I understand), it uses JIT compiling too, but I am not sure I would use it as the code ends up a mess (write once, read never) and it is geared more towards sysadmins who process text / log files.

Actually, Python may not be too bad a language to use, but it will need to be precompiled instead of interpreted if you want it for day to day use on a 400 MHz machine. Really 400 Mhz is a decent speed, so it can take some overhead, but not the overhead of code being interpreted. You may get away with using to glue together compiled code, but not much more (unless you want things really slow). I have heard about python compilers (I think they were JIT), so it would be worth looking into for use on these computers.

Re:ARM/MIPS or X86?

[sowth]

I'd be concerned that the "linux" they ship with would be really crappy (like Xandros on the EEE), and their hardware wouldn't be compatible with any regular distro with decent developer tools and such.

Re:ARM/MIPS or X86?

[uglyduckling]

They're just a clearing house for unwanted older laptop stock. They even say in on their page: "...we buy access inventory, overcapacity, out-of-fashion shells, shells with minor cosmetic flaws, discounted limited batches, and other high quality though discounted components and systems...". It's a nice product concept, but you could do the same with a few days' careful browsing on eBay.

Re:ARM/MIPS or X86?

[Anonymous Coward]

Funny you should mention feeding Africa.

Why isn't Africa feeding Europe?

Why isn't Europe demanding that Africans work extra hours every day to pay taxes, which are then given to the poor, starving EUROPEANS who are too stupid to grow their own food?

Whoops, it's the other way round, isn't it.

Re:ARM/MIPS or X86?

[drinkypoo]

I'm sure it would be possible to make a really low powered $20 computer with a microcontroller and other common chips.

I would buy at least a dozen $20 computers if they had wireless networking, and, say, >100MHz, 32MB RAM, and USB2. It could even be XBee networking for all I care, you could have one module connected to another PC via USB as a gateway, or whatever.

Re:ARM/MIPS or X86?

[DragonWriter]

Really 400 Mhz is a decent speed, so it can take some overhead, but not the overhead of code being interpreted.

That depends what the code is doing. When I was in junior high, my dad and I wrote a household finance tracking program with tolerable performance (because there weren't a lot of complicated calculations, probably the most significant being the one to calculate the current value of savings bonds) in a combination of interpreted BASIC and DOS batch scripts that ran on a 10MHz 8088. While you probably don't want to try to run a JavaScript-based FPS on a 400MHz machine, there are probably lots of applications for which a 400MHz processor is more than sufficient to run interpreted apps in JavaScript and other interpreted languages at tolerable speeds.

Re:ARM/MIPS or X86?

[Anonymous Coward]

No, it's like feeding African's some Italian sausage, some Japanese sushi, and some Iranian hummus. Variety and choices bring a broader understanding of computing fundamentals, which is far better than insisting on an arbitrary monopoly such as Word on Wintel.

Re:ARM/MIPS or X86?

[Robotech_Master]

According to their chairman, they use Debian.

I said for an extra fee

[davidwr]

I can't imagine them turning down an extra $20, especially if I'm willing to be on backorder.

Re:I said for an extra fee

[lambent]

if your $20 is more than their cost in labour to accommodate your request, then yes. typically, however, the marginal cost of one-off requests is just too much.

Re:I said for an extra fee

[Nikker]

How will that incur labor costs? It's not like they have to hire someone to stand by waiting for your specked hardware to come in. Like most companies of scale they separate and sort the hardware as it comes in if your request leads to an empty bin then check again tomorrow.

Re:I said for an extra fee

[bhtooefr]

Having the bin to sort your request into takes infrastructure, though.

If they don't have that capability, they can just ship whatever comes in, and worry about what it is if there's a support request.

Woot!

[Anonymous Coward]

If it's a Bag o' Crap, I'll take 3!

This is democratisation of hardware

[tyroneking]

It's what the OLPC should have been.
Commodity hardware, whatever's cheapest.
And a Linux-based OS to boot (no pun intended).
For f***s sake - how easy they do it - and OLPC had to make things so freaking difficult.
Obama - please give your spare bank-bailout cash to these guys and get less developed nations on-line before we all go to hell...

Re:This is democratisation of hardware

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't understand how less developed nations being online will prevent us from going to hell... sorry but I live in one of the most tech'd out areas of the world and I'm still about to get laid off.

Re:This is democratisation of hardware

[Anonymous Coward]

"It's what the OLPC should have been.
Commodity hardware, whatever's cheapest.
And a Linux-based OS"

OLPC is that and more: sunlight readable screen, robust, wireless mesh networking, even more energy efficient than this "Africa" device.

Re:This is democratisation of hardware

[Anonymous Coward]

WTF is giving these people shitty little computers going to accomplish? Why not invest the money in reversing desertification?

Re:This is democratisation of hardware

[Anonymous Coward]

Stop bragging about getting laid.

Re:This is democratisation of hardware

[Tsujiku]

And more expensive to boot.

Re:This is democratisation of hardware

[yurtinus]

Or perhaps getting them enough infrastructure to manufacture their own computers? We're going to do to them with technology what we did with cheap charity food-- price locals out of the market and make them *reliant* on us for cheap crap.

Re:This is democratisation of hardware

[TaoPhoenix]

Yeah, let the OLPC be a different breed. Finally someone is doing what I carped on in a couple of Dot posts.

(Begin slightly excessive theatrics)
"Windows 7 (and Vista worse before that), Outlook 2010, and some new breeds of Linux require crispy shiny hardware.
Oh Noes! Who will Think Of The OldWare??"
(/End slightly excessive theatrics)

So even ignoring Vista like we all did, MS is right that Win7/Vista SP3 is in fact positioned perfectly for the upgrade cycle from XP era 2001-2010.

That means there will be a perfect storm of weaker hardware showing up. Wait, what's this? People LIKE weaker specs if they're cheap?

If they can put a bit of hacker humor into the whole affair, it could go really well.

Re:This is democratisation of hardware

[Haxzaw]

I don't understand why getting less developed nations on computers and the internet is such a fantastic move. Perhaps those nations should finish their evolution, and work toward the tech honestly. Seriously, help them improve their agriculture, gradually move them toward industrialization, and eventually they'll join the ranks of fully developed countries.

Re:This is democratisation of hardware

[shutdown -p now]

OLPC is that and more: sunlight readable screen, robust, wireless mesh networking, even more energy efficient than this "Africa" device.

It's all good, but even taken together, it doesn't beat the $100 price tag. That is important; everything else is just icing on the cake.

Re:This is democratisation of hardware

[sowth]

So? If you get laid off, it isn't as if you will have to starve to death. Even if you didn't save any money, you probably have some charity nearby which will give you food (and shelter, if needed). Even if you were laid off and you came down with a serious illness after your health insurance had expired (assuming your country doesn't have socialized medicine), they would still let you in the hospital, treat you, and if you

Then again, maybe you live in a stingy asshole country who won't do any of those things for the less fortunate, but I doubt it since even the US does such things, more or less.

In "less developed" nations, assuming they don't have family which can take care of them (and it would be a real hardship to the family), a person would probably die of starvation if they couldn't find a job after a few months or became disabled from an illness (much more likely without access to good healthcare). They die of illnesses we take for granted. You may think getting laid off is a great setback, but it is nothing like what you'd experience in those countries.

Re:This is democratisation of hardware

[tyroneking]

Because it increases communication and literacy; democracy and individual freedoms.
I'm not sure I like your idea that they should 'evolve' and acquire their tech 'honestly' and industrialise 'themselves' - what the hell does that mean? Less developed nations are not full of monkeys with hats you know - they are the same as people in the West, intelligent, kind, sometimes hungry - and if the West advances it is right and proper that the West shares that with the whole world.
Also, if you're not in England then your whole point it moot because the rest of the world stole industrialisation from England.

Re:This is democratisation of hardware

[cl0s]

All at a price that no one can beat...

... or pay, i mean.

Re:This is democratisation of hardware

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't know where you live, but your ideas about the charity landscape in the US are not correct. Homeless shelters are beyond capacity across the country, and food banks are over-taxed as well. While you can get ER treatment without paying, you will still be billed and will still owe money for the treatment.

Re:This is democratisation of hardware

[sowth]

Yes, but what do you think the chances of someone starving to death in the US vs a country in Africa if they fall into hard times? What do you think the chances of someone in Africa getting medical care if they don't have money or insurance up front to pay for it? Quite a few hospitals in the US will take you in if you really need it, even if they know you can't pay.

Re:This is democratisation of hardware

[soupforare]

OLPC owner here-
It's only "more" is on the hardware side. Its software, even now, is a complete mess of unimplemented or half-implemented features. I actually really love the machine and it's too bad. Especially now with the XO-2 announced and the XO-1.5 coming soon, I can't see anyone putting much more work into the software. Realistically, 1.5 and 2 are both going to be XP machines...
One of the big boys *needs* to license the LCD tech, it has to be seen to be believed. If there were another laptop equipped with a like panel, I'd be all over it.

Might be worthwhile (cache!)

[Anonymous Coward]

This sounds kind of great, actually. If the site wasn't slashdotted.

I've been waiting for a netbook to come out that meets my stringent standards. (price < $200USD, standard keyboard layout, decent battery life, pocket-size/not much bigger than a paperback book) Maybe cutting that price in half will loosen my ideals on some other parts. Unlikely, but possible.

Go go Google Cache!

They will get buried in returns

[joeflies]

It doesn't matter that everyone will get at least the minimum configuration. What will happen is that people will find out what the other guy got (posting their configs on the net), and then anyone who didn't get as good of a configuration will return it and get another until they get one with similar spec as the best one out.

Re:They will get buried in returns

[Anonymous Coward]

I hope they charge a restocking fee at least. It wouldn't be unreasonable, and would curb that problem.

Re:They will get buried in returns

[Anonymous Coward]

I should think the delivery charges would limit that. Why should they refund your shipping if it isn't defective? At $19 for delivery, plus whatever it costs for you to return it, returning the device repeated times to get one is not going to be a very cost effective way to get a cheap netbook, might as well just get a second hand one off ebay, at least you know what you are buying, not to mention that if people keep returning them just because they don't like the specs, they'll keep sending them out and you could get one you already sent back.

How do i get one

[robinstar1574]

I can't find out how to get one of these, but I have made a habit of buying one of each major computer posted on slashdot. How do i get one of these?

Re:How do i get one

[Robotech_Master]

Wait for the Slashdotting to die down and their webserver to come back up. Then place your order via the store on their website. They take credit cards or Western Union. Be sure and specify in the "order instructions" textbox whether you want Windows or Linux.

Re:Come on, trolls.

[BronsCon]

This troll is oddly on-topic. I actually did point this out earlier, but without the use of the "N" word.

Server slashdotted

[uncle-pepe]

It would be nice if they used a server with more horsepower than a "CherryPal" Africa. Good luck getting any info from their website.

Re:Server slashdotted

[Robotech_Master]

Because, of course, we all know that Slashdotting lasts forever, and the site will now be gone for all eternity.

Or maybe it's just that Slashdot readers have the attention span of a fruit fly. :P

Can that really be cost effective?

[AusIV]

I always thought the reason it was cheaper to build a system from parts than buy a pre-built box was just a matter of scale. It's not hard to find a handful of parts that are on sale because they're beginning to be antiquated and retailers are trying to get rid of them, but I always assumed the price I paid for the parts was still above the normal wholesale price.

I can imagine that in bulk and with the right connections, you might be able to get these parts a bit below the normal wholesale price. The thing I have trouble with, is the idea that you can get enough of a discount to offset the cost of supporting random hardware configurations and software for several different CPU architectures.

Is this really cost effective?

Re:Can that really be cost effective?

[yurtinus]

The thing is, they are getting these odd lots of parts for well below wholesale price. I imagine these are probably some other vendor overstock or outdated hardware that some other manufacturer has already written off a loss on. *That* manufacturer doesn't have the infrastructure in place to repackage these into something marketable (at least something that's up to par with its current products), so they can recoup *some* cost by selling off the old stuff.

As for random hardware configurations, it is extremely unlikely they are supporting individual one-off machines. To be profitable, they'd need to have a lot of hundreds of the same configuration to rebuild their OS for and ship out. I'm curious what they get in these random lots though-- laptop motherboards and cases aren't exactly known for being interchangeable.

Re:Can that really be cost effective?

[Shotgun]

The thing I have trouble with, is the idea that you can get enough of a discount to offset the cost of supporting random hardware configurations and software for several different CPU architectures.

Is this really cost effective?

Support? What is this support you speak of in relation to hardware? The closest I've seen to hardware support in the last 10 years is "Ship the unit back to us, and we'll ship you a new one."

Re:Come on, trolls.

[Gothmolly]

+1 for digging up an old euphemism.

Really? Are we so sure?

[gbutler69]

I think the "developed" world bears some responsibility for cleaning up the mess it created

This gets bandied about all the time. I'm not so sure it really is all that true. Is it really the developed worlds fault that the less-developed nations have the problems they do? I've yet to see a convincing argument of that. From what I can tell, most that make this argument basically assume the premise that those who lose in history/culturally didn't *deserve* (as if that has some meanining in this context) to. Somehow, the premise assumes that every culture deserves to flourish on its own and should not be interfered with or eliminated by superior culture (superior being defined in the Darwinian sense of, "the winner is superior"). Why is this taken for granted? Why should this be so? I've never heard a convincing argument beyond, "Well, our ancestors were meanies and we should feel guilty for that!" I call BULLSHIT!

Re:Really? Are we so sure?

[ChangelingJane]

I hope I'm there to see how quickly you change your mind when you're no longer a part of the dominant culture.

Re:Really? Are we so sure?

[harry666t]

Strength is irrelevant. Resistance is futile. We wish to improve ourselves. We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own. Your culture will adapt to service ours.

Re:Really? Are we so sure?

[Mr. Slippery]

Is it really the developed worlds fault that the less-developed nations have the problems they do? I've yet to see a convincing argument of that.

May I suggest you read some gorram history, then, and learn about the imperialism? When nation A comes into nation B and steals land and resources, exploits and outright murders people, and destroys cultural and political institutions that have ordered the people's lives for centuries, yes, it is nation A's fault when nation B continues to have problems for some time after it has been, effectively, raped and beaten.

Somehow, the premise assumes that every culture deserves to flourish on its own and should not be interfered with or eliminated by superior culture (superior being defined in the Darwinian sense of, "the winner is superior"). Why is this taken for granted?

Are you seriously arguing that war, theft, and violence are acceptable behavior? That might makes right? If that's your belief, then further argument is pointless; I'd could only prove to you that I'm "right" by proving to be "stronger", i.e. beating the crap out of you. Do you really that that (hypothetically!) jumping out from a dark alley and beaning you with a baseball bat and stealing your wallet would make me "superior"? After all, clearly I'd be the "winner" in such a situation.

Sorry but

[Mattskimo]

I hope they don't include a brand sticker. Most people I know wouldn't take kindly to my having CP on my computer.

We've been over this before.

[CAIMLAS]

We've been over this before, and it's starting to get irritating. I really, really, really want to want one of these, but when netbooks are available refurbished with 1G of RAM and 16G SSD for $250...

We've been hearing about the sub-$100 netbook/computer now for about 2 years, it seems. Invariably it's an ARM processor based device, and it's going to revolutionize computing. Some promises sounded nice. Mostly, the products are vaporware or just crap.

Basically, this device has the specifications of a handheld CE device from 5 years+ ago, plus a little (and i do mean a little) extra RAM. 256Mb isn't enough for much anymore. It's dated. As a special-purpose device to be hacked, or to be used as a very basic connectivity/mobile entry/admin device, sure. It would beat a cell phone for any of those tasks. But its utility for even checking webmail is severely questionable.

(On the other hand, if it had a touchscreen, I'd pay $150 for it without thinking twice.)

For the same price, you can get a refurbished first-generation Eee 7". It has twice as much memory, a processor twice as fast, and USB 2.0 instead of 1.1. It's also extensively hackable: you can add to it and modify the hell out of it. The battery life is also comparable (more than 3h but fewer than 6h).

Let me know when I can get a $200 netbook with a 9" display, 1GHz or so ARM processor (with the kind of dedicated coprocessors one would expect for audio/video these days) and 1Gb of RAM. You know, something which might be able to compete on performance with a 10-year-old desktop. Even better, let me know when it hits the 1-1-1 trifecta: 1Gb, 1GHz, $100. Of course, I expect to have to wait 15 years for such a device - and then, I'll find it on eBay.

Re:We've been over this before.

[Robotech_Master]

Please point me to where these mythical refurbished Eees can be found? I was not able to find anything for less than $250, even open-box.

Re:We've been over this before.

[CAIMLAS]

They're the first-gen Celeron 7" ones, but if you're going to run Linux on it as a kiosk type device (minimal use, Skype, etc.), the price is perfect.

I've been too strapped to get one, and don't really need it, so I can't comment on how beat up they are or anything like that. But here they are:

http://www.memorylabs.net/aseerew90daa5.html

I believe I found them via pricewatch several months ago. No idea if they're still listed there; this seller also has (had) a number of similar refurbished netbooks at pretty good prices.

Re:We've been over this before.

[Robotech_Master]

Thank you for pointing that out.

As it happens, I will be getting a review unit of the Africa, and of the Bing, to review for TeleRead, so I will have a chance to evaluate them. It is possible that the Africa may well have better specs than the minimums promised, in which case it would be a matter of comparing the specific unit I have to what's available on that refurb site.

Re:We've been over this before.

[CAIMLAS]

What is the Bing you speak of?

Re:We've been over this before.

[Robotech_Master]

It's their $349 higher-end netbook, with an Atom CPU and 13" screen. They claim they were using the name well before Microsoft started using it for their search engine.

Racist?

[CAIMLAS]

Does calling a "half-assed managery of parts" computer an Africa seem terribly racist to you? It does to me.

I'd like one.

Re:Racist?

[Anonymous Coward]

Does calling a "half-assed managery of parts" computer an Africa seem terribly racist to you? It does to me.

I'd like one.

Making up words like "managery" is racist?

Sharp Mobilon Pro PV-5000

[Anonymous Coward]

Long before anyone invented the word "netbook", Sharp released a small
computer that looked much like the CP Africa. It was called
theSharp Mobilon Pro PV-5000.
I bought two of them on sale for $100 each, and I'm still using them
today. My only complaint was the crappy battery life, but not bad for
an "instant-on" web browser.

Wow!

[Skal Tura]

Finally just not vaporware? :)

Going to get one.

I wish i could get even cheaper ones without screen, keyb, battery, wifi etc. just PS/2, USB, VGA and Ethernet connections? ;)

Re:Wow!

[Skal Tura]

Correct that, already ordered one for testing ;)

Green Maraschino?

[edbob]

So where can one find this Debian-based distro? I Googled for it, but only found one blog posting and a bunch of articles about canned fruit. I also checked on Distrowatch and they have nothing. I'd kind of like to play with it before I buy one of the machines.

Re:Green Maraschino?

[Robotech_Master]

Good question. I'll be sure to ask it when I interview Max Seybold tomorrow.

Re:Green Maraschino?

[DragonWriter]

"Green Maraschino" seems to be their cloud service, not the OS; the Debian-based distro, I would imagine, is a customized spin of Xubuntu (at least, that's what other sites I've seen have referred to being used on other CherryPal machines, so it would be the natural choice for the Africa.)

Re:Green Maraschino?

[blue-slonopotam]

Exactly, I was planning to buy one to toy around, and decided to make sure I have all the sources.... and did not find the whole distro! I think this is a scam.

small, slow, sufficient

[foniksonik]

I think the slogan for this device says it all:

"small, slow, sufficient"

A real historian...

[DesScorp]

Wich there was none of before they were "discovered"

If you honestly think Africa was a land of "noble savages", where peace and cooperation was the norm before the white man arrived, then I'm not sure anything will sway you otherwise, but historians, anthropologists, and archaeologists would disagree. Africans are human, and like all humans, they have their history of inhumanity to each other. Cannibalism is overblown... its actually very rare... but it does exist, and has been practiced in Africa as long as people have been in Africa. Meeting white men did indeed open up new cans of worms, but don't pretend that the place was Eden before whitey got there.

Amdahl's law

[tepples]

A decent bytecode interpreter is around a tenth the speed of native code.

True; I've noticed this from console emulators. But not the entire application runs inside the interpreter: a lot of the libraries are native. This would include algorithms over collections (e.g. sorting) and importantly the GUI. If an app spends half its time in a native-code layout engine and the other half in an interpreter, Amdahl's law states that replacing the interpreter with a JIT compiler won't speed up the app by more than a factor of two; it'd be almost as good to look into optimizing the layout engine.

Like Europe then.

[jotaeleemeese]

As for cannibalism, go on, show us some links.

Most cannibalism was done for ritual reasons and as a mark of respect for your elders.

Then people can trade services

[jotaeleemeese]

http://www.boingboing.net/2009/11/16/teaching-refugees-ho.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+boingboing%2FiBag+(Boing+Boing)

People becoming wealthier means in the long run they can buy stuff from you (not necessarily directly mind you, but is no use to have people starving to death when they could be earning a living and trading with people around the world).

Oh please.

[jotaeleemeese]

If anything it would pay homage to the inventiveness of African people. They can fix things in unexpected and very clever ways, because more often than not they can't buy the expensive replacement parts.

If anything such device would fit perfectly with the local culture (same thing anywhere else where original replacement parts are too expensive).

Frankenstein

[Stregano]

Hmm, I always called random builds of whatever I had lying around Frankensteins, not Africas. I know they are sending these to Africa, which is cool, but I think it would be way cooler to send these out and call them Frankensteins

Does somebody, except Cherrypal employees,

[blue-slonopotam]

actually have working Cherrypal Africa?