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Apple Fails To Deliver On Windows 7 Boot Camp Promise
SkydiverFL writes "For those fans of Apple's Boot Camp package, it looks like you might be waiting on the next 'end of year' to use Windows 7 on your shiny silver boxes. Back in October of this year, Apple published a rather short, but affirmative promise stating quite simply that, 'Apple will support Microsoft Windows 7 (Home Premium, Professional, and Ultimate) with Boot Camp in Mac OS X Snow Leopard before the end of the year. This support will require a software update to Boot Camp.' The support page has no updates regarding the new version. Maybe they're waiting for iSlate?"
There is no need to wait. I installed Windows 7 bootcamp on the day it was released on Technet, and it worked fine with the Vista drivers.
If you wanted a Windows laptop why would you pay all that money?
"XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve your problem, use more." - Anonymous Coward
Um, I was under the impression that it was trivial to install Windows 7 on a Mac even without official boot camp support (per http://www.simplehelp.net/2009/01/15/using-boot-camp-to-install-windows-7-on-your-mac-the-complete-walkthrough/) whats the difference between the tutorial and what you would do normally?
Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
New self-cleaning nano-tech glass allows one to avoid doing windows.
running windows 7. what's the issue? everything works great.
I had the RTM installed on a first-gen Mac Pro and everything worked out of the box. Sure the Apple drivers put a startup disk selector in, and fix the clock sync issue but driver-wise what's the point?
"liberty and justice for all those who can afford it"
Use the Preview button!
If you buy a Mac Laptop, you can run Windows, Linux or OS X, all fully supported.
If you buy a Windows laptop, you can't officially run OS X - and of course it comes pre-loaded with Windows, not OS X.
Considering you also get better quality hardware, it seems reasonable to pay a little more for more choice.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
It's still not out by when they promised. That's all there is to it. Sure, give the employees time off. They still didn't do the job.
My blog. Good stuff (when I remember to update it). Read it.
While it is valid to complain that Apple missed a deadline, I am kind of surprised that Apple even made the effort to create a deadline. I cannot imagine people paying Apple prices to run MS Windows on an exclusive basis. I can imagine them paying such prices to run virtual machines with other OS.
I would rather see Apple point customers toward Parallels or Fusion rather than working on trying to get MS Windows to work as the base OS. What would be even more cool is a kernal that could then be used to run any number of OS in virtual mode.
"She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
Oddly, Windows 7 works just fine on my MacBook Pro 15".
There was a Firmware update about 2 weeks ago, which may have been what we were waiting for; but I had no problems with it when I installed it today.
-Runz
From what I heard, OS X uses certain low level functions that control processor speed/voltage within the OS itself versus what conventionally would be done through a BIOS on a normal PC. Apple uses EFI... I know that. Just reading about some of the "dangers" if using a Mac to run Linux... main reason being, you have a likeliness of damaging the CPU if all you run are intensive tasks under Linux. Apple wrote drivers that deal with this stuff under Windows. All in all, Vista drivers will work fine... but I'm just picky about "official bootcamp support" even if it is a gimmick. Apple wouldn't be putting an ounce of elbow grease into it unless there was something important they were writing into it to ensure a smooth experience.
Graphic cards arent virtualized. So if you want games, you gotta go to the Bootcamp!
It's readily available in non-Apple form.
Not entirely correct.
Virtualizing the graphics card already has support for all the major VMs (VirtualBox, VMWare, Parallels, etc) and it's being actively worked on with support from the big GPU ISVs.
Mod me down, my New Earth Global Warmingist friends!
Don't see any Linux vendors bragging about what a big extra "feature" GRUB is, and it does the same thing. Often more transparently.
Really? I admit I haven't used GRUB for a couple of years and it may have improved since I last did, but I don't remember it letting me pop in a Windows CD, helping me resize my existing partitions, then installing Windows and setting up the correct third-party drivers for my hardware. Does it really do all of that now?
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Maybe they're waiting for iSlate?
iGuess...
You have the right to remain sentient. If you give up the right to remain sentient, you will be elected to public office
Here is some info not provided in the rest of the 'I'm posting from Win7" posts here is some helpful information.
First, the Snow Leopard DVD includes boot camp 3.0, which VASTLY improves the use of the touchpad under Windows XP or Vista. It also mostly works under Windows 7.
If you don't have a Snow Leopard DVD, here is a link to the drivers on TPB:
http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/5054638/Bootcamp_Driver_3.0_for_Windows_32bit__amp__64bit_%28from_Snow_Leopard
After installing this updating the sound drivers and video drivers would be advisable since the ones that come in boot camp suck and/or cause crashes.
http://www.nvidia.com/Download/index.aspx?lang=en-us for video drivers. Select windows-7 then 32 or 64 bit depending on which you've chosen.
ac
http://www.realtek.com.tw/downloads/downloadsView.aspx?Langid=1&PNid=14&PFid=24&Level=4&Conn=3&DownTypeID=3&GetDown=false
After this it should be reasonably stable.
It's easier to fight for one's principles than to live up to them.
By your logic I don't need a decent CPU or RAM because Windows XP will run on 64 MB of memory and a 233 MHZ x86 CPU.
Things that run decently and don't have minute-long lag is a need.
Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
So, the version i am running from Snow Leopard, that says "compatible with Windows 7" right there on the setup screen is actually NOT compatible with windows 7.
FTFA:
You cannot run your Mac applications simultaneously
No one notified me of this! Ive been running it like that since I installed it!
You cannot safely resize the Mac or Windows partitions
Got me again! Next time i'll try it, i'll make sure to do it as unsafely as i can.
You cannot easily transfer files between the two partitions (without third-party support)
I'll stop using the hfs driver in boot camp right away (once i learn to disable it. Damn apple making stuff just work).
Seriously, anyone reading CNet for legitimate stories should have his head checked.
You must be a hit at parties.
echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
> Really? I admit I haven't used GRUB for a couple of years and it may have improved since I
> last did, but I don't remember it letting me pop in a Windows CD, helping me resize my
> existing partitions, then installing Windows and setting up the correct third-party drivers
> for my hardware. Does it really do all of that now?
That's really the OS installer's job which Linux does very well at.
Both Windows and MacOS are inferior in this respect. Given the UI of the install CDs,
I would not hold out great hopes for Boot Camp being terribly usable (despite what
ever features might be buried inside).
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
I have noticed 2 major issues with Boot Camp coming with the "snow leopard" DVD and I started to believe Apple doesn't want users to have good performance on Windows. Or, they don't have slightest clue about importance of these things.
1) The NVidia GPU drivers coming with Snow Leopard DVD (and there are no updates) are _old_. One would think "well, they could prefer stability", no it is not the case either. The stuff offered at NVidia drivers page are WHQL certified by default too. 9400M is especially a GPU/Integrated GPU hybrid, it really needs up to date, latest driver software to function properly.
2) Now, this is not a trivial thing to fix like heading to nvidia and download a driver. SATA on latest gen Mac Mini (and Intel based stuff) is not properly identified to Windows via MBR or "BIOS". There isn't much information there but in case of Intel SATA controller, it is documented and you can take a real big risk of MBR tweaking with some ready to use tools and identify SATA/AHCI situation to Windows, thanks to NCQ like features _only_ available to AHCI (at least under win), 2-3x performance hit may occur. NVidia chipset having Mac Minis who really needs whatever software performance they need (they run 2.5"). I did every documented, undocumented, dangerous trick on book to have 20 MB/sec pathetic speed. Same drive on same hardware hits 60-70MB/sec on OS X.
As Nvidia won't give specs to a chipset nerd or end user, things would really change in case of Apple themselves contacting them. I really believe people who can do crazy things like putting a virtual BIOS on top of EFI etc would manage to change couple of bytes. I started to believe that it is Apple who wants their users,customers to have junk like performance on Windows. Perhaps with the recent Win 7 hype, they are afraid of their customers having good experience with Windows and start to question their brand?
Actually, I ran across a nasty bug when I first put Windows 7 on a drive in my Mac Pro.
My system has 4 physical hard drives in it. The first was labeled "OS X Boot" and the 2nd. and 3rd. had labels of "Data 1" and "Data 2". I installed Windows 7 on the 4th. drive. All went well, except when booted into Windows 7, it displayed the OS X drives out of order. (With the latest version of Boot Camp drivers on the Snow Leopard DVD, they provide "read only" support of the OS X HFS+ volumes in Windows.) It was assigning my "Data 1" drive as drive G" while "Data 2" was drive F:, and "OS X Boot" was given letter H:.
I figured "No big deal. I know how to fix it when Windows does this stuff ....", and went into Computer Management and Disk Management under Administrative Tools, and told it to reassign the drive letters in the order I wanted them. It did, as requested, and all seemed to be well.
EXCEPT, on reboot into OS X, I discovered my OS X drives were rendered unbootable/unusable! Windows 7 could see them just fine - but the Mac didn't like them natively anymore! Worse yet, I tried all sorts of disk repair utilities on them and the usual result was being shown that the drives were of an "unrecognized partition type" and options to repair them were "greyed out"! One program, Drive Genius, actually let me verify and repair the volumes - but after running through everything, insisted the drives were "ok" and there was nothing to repair!
Apparently, the Disk Management in Windows actually rewrites something in the partition table when it reassigns drive letters (not just a registry update), and whatever it does changes things JUST enough to screw up OS X from using the HFS+ volumes normally. Apple really needs to update their drivers so they prevent people from being able to write to the drives from Windows' disk management tool, since this is the case. "Read only HFS+ support" should mean just that!
"The PC prices will be in a close neighborhood."
This hasn't been true for 5 years, and gets less true every day.
It fun to watch you people get modded up for something that is, essentially, an easily disproven lie.