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Chevrolet Volt In a Gasoline-Only Scenario
s122604 sends in a performance review of the Chevy Volt, paying particular attention to what happens after the initial plug-in capacity has been depleted. This reader adds, "The review indicates that the performance is adequate, and perhaps better than anticipated. If the Volt can deliver technically, especially with the possibility that it could retail for less than expected (WSJ subscription may be required), does GM have a potential hit on its hands?" "How well will General Motors' Chevrolet Volt drive once it gets past its 40 mile all-electric driving range and starts to rely on power generated by its gasoline engine? That's been a question for both critics and fans of the Volt, and with just 11 months to go before this car hits the market, I got the answer."
...that's still too expensive for Joe Shiftworker. Doesn't it just give you a warm fuzzy to see people driving past you in cars that you can't afford to buy because the Government gouged you so hard in order to give your tax money to the people who can afford to buy them?
If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
Of course the driving performance is the exact same. There is only one driving engine, the electric one, and creating power-enough for it is not hard. Now the real question is: What is its fuel-performance when batteries are depleted?
How come all hybrid vehicles comes in the form of Gasoline / Battery ?
How come there is no hybrid vehicle that is in the form of Diesel / Battery ?
Do you know that diesel engines is much more efficient than that of the gasoline engine ?
And if we are really into the "Green" thing, why must we stuck with the gasoline engine ?
Why can't we change to Diesel / Battery instead, for hybrids ?
Can someone who knows much more about this give some comments, please?
Thank you !
The classic problem with selling new cars is that the people who can afford to buy them don't care about efficiency. They want a car that will dust whoever's next to them when they take off from a stoplight, and looks/drives sporty and/or like a Cadillac.
Car reporters take this a step farther and don't even care how much the car costs to buy or operate, just how it feels to be behind the wheel. So in the end, cheap cars never get positive press, and efficient cars only get it if they play to the luxury-class tastes of Car and Driver.
(It's never too late to join the Renaissance)
The virtually inevitable future of ground transportation isn't petroleum, since we will indeed eventually run out. However the obstacles are too many for a pure EV to be used as anything but a commuter car. (Namely, EV's are entirely useless for long-haul driving, with the even the longest range vehicles only providing less than 1/4 of that needed for a long haul trip. And no, you can't quick charge without MAJOR upgrades to the infrastructure.)
Doing the lion's share of your driving on batt., charging slowly at home, and still having the gas capacity for a long-range trip is a good compromise, and one that I think will carry us through the next couple of decades of auto development.
SirWired
P.S. I'm surprised at the number of articles that are so impressed that the engine isn't connected to the drive wheels. This is how locomotives have worked for decades, albeit for different reasons.
It'll be interesting to see if this compromise pays off for Chevy. I'm betting that the Leaf will end up being more successful.
I'm a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar.
What we want to know is, what is the mileage when operating on the range extender?
So if you hop in your Volt and head to Grandma's house a few states over, what is the mileage per gallon?
While I like the concept of the Volt, paying $40k for a vehicle the size of a Cobalt/Focus doesn't appeal to me unless its off the grid mileage is better than average as well. I do not want a car just for commuting.
* Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
Make the batteries bigger and you still have to have the gas engine for when you visit your cousin 300 miles away.
It's not for longer trips that pure EV's get killed. It's the every Saturday when you have to run to the grocery store, bank, stop by your mother in laws, pick up some stuff at Best Buy, and you drive 150 miles running errands use case. Our leaders never mention this case though, because they actually don't drive for themselves.
This is my sig.
The battery should be cheaper, by far, because its a lot easier to dig coal out of the ground, have one big engine convert it to electricity and ship it over a wire, than it is to build container ships and oil drilling and refining apparatus send you energy that you can convert.
This is my sig.
You can read the full WSJ article without subscribing by using the "Email" link at the bottom of the preview. The link you'll get in your mailbox will lead to the full article (this works for all WSJ "subscriber only" articles.)
It was not immediately clear how GM reached the 230 mpg in city driving, but industry officials estimated the automaker's calculation took into consideration the Volt traveling 40 miles on the electric battery and then achieving about 50 mpg when the engine kicked in.
Use your head, can't you, use your head,
You're on earth, there's no cure for that - S. Beckett
And then they turn around and buy US debt with those profits.
The interest of which you service through your income taxes. What happens to slaves when they don't pay their income taxes?
If it wasn't for China and Japan, the US would be bankrupt
How so. Where do dollars come from? What is money? Who defines what money is? It's ridiculous to think of a nation as bankrupt. Money is simply bits of paper representing a claim on real goods. A nation can define it's own currency representing all the wealth that the nation can produce. In America it happens to be defined (for some reason, and to the benefit of some) as debt. Without China and japan exporting to America, products would simply be produced locally instead.
I just posted about this 10 minutes ago:
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1506464&cid=30735248
If the US dollar wasn't the reserve currency, China and Japan wouldn't be exporting to the USA. It's great for those on the upper end of the US economy, kind of shitty for those at the bottom.
Deleted
The CNN story is more like an ad than a fact-based article. A few more facts would be helpful - as presented the car is not that impressive.
This is what ticks me off the most about the car. I don't care about the grandiose claims. What I do care is that GM through its connections in the US Government taking money out of my pocket so someone else can buy this car.
They are transferring the efforts of my labor, my training, and such, to someone else because of what? Really? Where in the hell is the justification for this?
Can't wait for someone to declare its a right or for the public good. Whats next? Condemning older cars as urban blight and forcing people to buy what they don't need or want?
Government isn't doing anything but taking from others by force of law and distributing to those who would not have the courage to do so in person. There is nothing about this transfer that benefits the public good, unless your a rich corporation or a public official.
* Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
Safety and predictability. Make things boring and people, in the average, are happy :)
The problem is that a Diesel engine is very heavy and expensive. Most hybrids are made for short trips so it would be a great waste of resources to carry around a heavy engine.
Hybrids are made for the same purposes as every other cars and are driven no differently. I don't know why you think a hybrid is somehow driven any different than a car with just an internal combustion engine. Diesels are fine for even typical commuting distances. It doesn't have to be a 1000 mile journey to get benefits from a diesel.
As for cost, that has FAR more to do with economies of scale than it does any additional material and engineering costs. In Europe the majority of vehicles are diesel and the manufacturers produce diesel engines that are economically competitive with gasoline engines. They are not competitive here in the US because for various reasons only a small percentage of cars use diesel so there are no economies of scale to take advantage of.
Hybrid gasoline engines have a somewhat different cycle (Atkinson cycle) than normal gasoline engines (traditional Otto cycle) and thus are more economical.
That depends on the specific hybrid. Some hybrids use Otto cycle engines because they are tuned more for power than just fuel economy. Not all hybrids are Toyota Prius's. It's an engineering choice. You can tune a hybrid for power or for fuel economy - and there are gains to be made even without maximizing either. There are plenty of potential applications where a diesel would be a better choice in a hybrid vehicle than an Atkinson cycle gas engine. Conversely, sometimes a gasoline engine is the right choice. It's not as simple as you are making it out to be.
where the Diesel engine is often only connected to the generator so it can be in its most efficient revolution speed the whole time and (because of the constant speed) have a very long life.
You do know that the Chevy Volt has the engine only connected to the generator right? Very similar to a locomotive or a ship. The engine only kicks on when the batteries are drained and then only to recharge the batteries. There is NO mechanical linkage between the gas engine and the electric motors that propel the Volt. There is no reason a diesel could not be used instead.
FTFA:
The biggest difference between a gas-power versus an electric-power car is that there's no transmission. Electric motors don't need gears or gear shifts.
While the Volt may not have a transmission in the same sense that most gasoline vehicles do, it is not correct to say that "electric motors don't need gears or gear shifts." The author of the article seems to be confusing three terms: gear, gear shift, and transmission. They are 3 different things.
That's because they ARE noisy, smelly and polluting..
Go straight to your local VW or BMW dealer and ask to see their diesels. I have so I know you are quite wrong. Heck VW diesels keep winning the green vehicle awards over the hybrids.
Besides, diesel is more inconvenient as I'd have to hunt to find a station that dispenses it. Not all do and they would be mainly on the big truck transport routes.
Just over half of all filling stations in the US have diesel. It's not even remotely hard to find.
Not sure whether it's your math or their's, but Popular Mechanics' numbers have a huge price difference driving even a Prius vs a Volt or Tesla Roadster. When you're outside the range of the Volt's battery, things look similar to driving a Prius. Inside the 30-mile range, the Volt is less than half the cost of the Prius.
On the other hand, the Tesla Roadster (the high end sporty car from Tesla) will do a 200 mile trip for less than half the cost of a Prius OR a Volt. Just $4.40 to go 200 miles in a ridiculously fast car. The Model S should have even better numbers.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/automotive/new_cars/4215681.html
-- "Government is the great fiction through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
My pockets have been picked since I started working to fight useless wars and fund an enormous, expensive and increasingly ineffective military. Not to mention the soaring spending rates on police agencies from local to Federal which reduce my freedoms.
The money being spent on Volt subsidies is nothing compared to handouts to corn farmers. It's a pittance compared to money we just hand over to other nations.
Blar.
No. 2009 was the FIRST year a VW diesel won
Are you sure about that? Because I'm pretty sure you are wrong.
So there is ONE 2009 model out there with descent emissions.
If you bothered to actually look you'd find the diesels from Mercedes and BMW as well as Audi and VW all are quite clean these days. Seriously. Go look before you spout of unresearched nonsense.
What does that have to say about all the other soot and sulfur belching monstrosities?
Nothing whatsoever. There are lots of smog producing gasoline engines too. Has nothing to do with the ability to produce clean diesels. The technology exists and is in production.
My pockets have been picked since I started working to fight useless wars and fund an enormous, expensive and increasingly ineffective military. Not to mention the soaring spending rates on police agencies from local to Federal which reduce my freedoms. The money being spent on Volt subsidies is nothing compared to handouts to corn farmers. It's a pittance compared to money we just hand over to other nations.
Two wrongs don't make a right. On the other hand, without a military there is little to prevent the have-nots of this world from coming over with their nail-boards and extorting from you whatever they can. Do we spend too much on these things? Probably. Does that make the Chevy Volt subsidy any more noble or right than it otherwise would be? IMHO, no.