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US DOJ Says Kindle In Classroom Hurts Blind Students

angry tapir writes "Three US universities will stop promoting the use of Amazon.com's Kindle DX e-book reader in classrooms after complaints that the device doesn't give blind students equal access to information. Settlements with Case Western Reserve University in Cleveland, Pace University in New York City and Reed College in Portland, Oregon, were announced Wednesday by the US Department of Justice. The National Federation of the Blind and the American Council of the Blind had complained that use of the Kindle devices discriminates against students with vision problems."

35 of 492 comments (clear)

  1. Hmm, this seems illogical. by tivoKlr · · Score: 5, Insightful

    How does the kindle discriminate against the blind any more than, say, A BOOK?

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    1. Re:Hmm, this seems illogical. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      As a partially sighted person[1] I'm trying to figure this out...hang on...um...uh..nearly there...uh...no.

      Nope sorry, no idea. Still I'm sure The National Federation of the Blind and the American Council of the Blind are patting themselves on the back for holding back the majority of students while in no way impacting any partially sighted or blind student in any way what-so-ever. Good for them!

      [1]: I have partial sight in my right eye due to several holes in my retina, one of which is directly in the center of my vision.

    2. Re:Hmm, this seems illogical. by Simulant · · Score: 4, Interesting

      RTFA, there's no speech to UI control on a Kindle. They can't navigate the software or e-books even if the Kindle can read it to them. Regular books are available in braille.

    3. Re:Hmm, this seems illogical. by Soilworker · · Score: 4, Insightful

      books company didn't stop releasing books in braille after the kindle release, blind student still can buy them.

      How is it a unfair advantage ? I should always wear something that cover my eyes because it's unfair for them if I can see with my two eyes ?

    4. Re:Hmm, this seems illogical. by clang_jangle · · Score: 4, Informative

      Well, books can be typed in braille, the kindle cannot...

      Sure it can. Maybe The National Federation of the Blind and the American Council of the Blind should get off their asses and sponsor it.

      --
      Caveat Utilitor
    5. Re:Hmm, this seems illogical. by iamhassi · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "How does the kindle discriminate against the blind any more than, say, A BOOK?"

      Simple: by forcing Amazon to come out with a new device that caters more to their needs, 0.3% of the population (~1 million blind vs 300 million Americans) forces the other 99.7% of the population to pay for all the hardware and software advances required for them to use the device.

      Completely fair IMHO

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    6. Re:Hmm, this seems illogical. by maxume · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I have this notion that electronic copies of books might even be more accessible, as there is no need to do any OCR; I guess if the students in question are already used to using some system that isn't compatible...

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    7. Re:Hmm, this seems illogical. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Same. I don't understand what the fuck these people are thinking. I'm "legally" blind and the Kindle is great because you can set the text size. You can't do that with a book. And for fully blind people, wouldn't it be easier, rather than harder, to pipe digital text to a braille reader?

      This (again, as someone who is legally blind) is just stupid people being stupid.

    8. Re:Hmm, this seems illogical. by davester666 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      None of the university e-books have text-to-speech enabled for them, in order to preserve the jobs of human text to speech convertors.

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    9. Re:Hmm, this seems illogical. by PopeRatzo · · Score: 4, Funny

      Nope sorry, no idea.

      As far as I can tell, the only way a Kindle can hurt a blind person in the classroom is if somebody throws one at his head.

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    10. Re:Hmm, this seems illogical. by mabhatter654 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      exactly, see here!

      http://news.slashdot.org/story/09/02/28/0127236/Amazon-Caves-On-Kindle-2-Text-To-Speech

      The DOJ didn't exactly stick up for Amazon when they enabled text-to-speech by default for all Kindle books.... Now they claim they can't use them because it's "unfair" to blind people.... Blind people can't read EVERY book without help.... kindle make it cheaper for the rest of us to have materials. There are SPECIAL programs and credits to convert material for blind people that schools are supposed to offer... not turn off stuff for the rest of us!!

    11. Re:Hmm, this seems illogical. by evil_aar0n · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Is there a law that says devices of this sort must have equal access for handicapped users?

      I'm deaf. When I go to movies, I get only half of the experience of "normal" viewers because I don't get the dialog. Should I sue the producers and the theater chains because they don't caption movies for me? No. I simply wait until it comes out on DVD and watch it on my TV, with captioning enabled.

      It sucks for blind people, in general. Granted, the Kindle doesn't help them. However, they've no business taking it out on the Kindle or universities that find it a useful tool. Adapt. It's what we do.

      --
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    12. Re:Hmm, this seems illogical. by enFi · · Score: 5, Informative

      In fact, such devices exist: the BrailleNote is a portable computer with a Braille 'screen'. Among other things (wireless internet, bluetooth, voice memos, word processing) it e-book reading as a feature. (I have never used one myself - I am sighted, and can barely struggle along in Braille - but a blind friend of mine has one.)

    13. Re:Hmm, this seems illogical. by Fnord666 · · Score: 4, Funny

      ... in order to preserve the jobs of human text to speech convertors.

      When I was at university, these were called professors. I kid you not. I had more than 1 professor who simply read to us from the textbook. They couldn't have taught a rock to just sit there, but they brought in the grant money, so they stayed.

      --
      'The tyrant will always find pretext for his tyranny.' - Aesop's Fables
    14. Re:Hmm, this seems illogical. by mysidia · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Professors commonly use materials in class that aren't available in braille form.

      But this might be because classes are normally small and I never had a blind person in my class in 4 years...

      Maybe there aren't that many blind people at public universities, and dumbing down education for everyone just to make things more convenient for a small fraction of the population, is unreasonable?

      I can think of a lot of accomadations that are more reasonable than globally restricting the medium that may be used in classrooms.

      If the kindle is to be banned on this basis, then this must apply to other eBook readers too, and other electronic media, such as the use of web/internet-based sites as resources.

      Sorry folks, all professors with a "class web page" must now turn these off, since blind and quadroplegic folken can't surf the web anyways.

      No actual art can be displayed in 'visual arts appreciation class', to ensure blind people have a fair shot at an A.

      And... also, no actual music will be allowed in music appreciation class, to ensure equal access by deaf people.

    15. Re:Hmm, this seems illogical. by consonant · · Score: 5, Funny
      [S]he's never going to see that one coming...

      (sorry)

    16. Re:Hmm, this seems illogical. by MikeFM · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Blind users should sue publishers that disable text to speech. They are the bastards to blame.

      --
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  2. Amazon should love this precedent by Phat_Tony · · Score: 4, Interesting

    So, all Amazon needs to do is add a text-to-speech feature, and then they can sue any school that tries to use paper books instead of the Kindle, because compared to a text-to-speech Kindle, paper devices discriminate against students with vision problems.

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    1. Re:Amazon should love this precedent by m.ducharme · · Score: 5, Insightful

      So, all Amazon needs to do is turn back on the text-to-speech feature...

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    2. Re:Amazon should love this precedent by Avalain · · Score: 5, Informative

      And from TFA...

      "he Kindle DX has the capability to convert text to synthesized speech, but the device does not include text-to-speech functionality for its menu and navigational controls, the DOJ said in a press release. "

    3. Re:Amazon should love this precedent by bhartman34 · · Score: 4, Informative

      Actually, that's half-right. Kindle e-books can have text-to-speech capabilities, but many publishers (e.g., Random House, Penguin) disable it. What Amazon can do (and is working on) is to use text-to-speech in the Kindle's menu, so that the visually impaired (i.e., blind or legally blind) can navigate the menus to get to the e-books, which can then be read through text-to-speech (assuming it's not disabled).

    4. Re:Amazon should love this precedent by Bobfrankly1 · · Score: 4, Funny

      It's a viscous cycle.

      What does liquid resistance have to do with it?

  3. Somebody please tell the DOJ by Vinegar+Joe · · Score: 5, Insightful

    That Harrison Bergeron is a warning........not a fucking "how-to" manual.

    http://www.tnellen.com/cybereng/harrison.html

    --
    "The average reporter we talk to is 27 years old......They literally know nothing." - Ben Rhodes
  4. your highest achievable standard.,.. by gandhi_2 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    ...is the capability of the lowest common denominator.

    Braille doesn't provide much access to those with no arms.

  5. Lowest Common Denominator mentality by syousef · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "If you can have it and I can't I'll sue" - Pretty soon kids are lucky to have access to food and clothing, let alone an education. It's a losing strategy compared to say innovating and catering to diversity. Why can't they lobby for an ebook reader that does cater to the blind. Perhaps popup braile? Instead of wasting effort sending all your kids minds back to the stone age. Doesn't have to be a Kindle either. Leave the brand names out of it.

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  6. In other news by ChrisMaple · · Score: 4, Insightful

    There aren't any blind NASCAR drivers.

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  7. Re:Uhmm by bhartman34 · · Score: 4, Informative

    As it stands right now, the Kindle doesn't have text-to-speech in the menu. Theoretically, if you can use the menu, you can use the Kindle (2 or DX, at least) to read to you using text-to-speech.

    The thing is, Amazon has announced previously that they're working on enabling text-to-speech in the menu, so that particular issue will be moot (although I don't know what the timeline is). The bigger problem is that publishers can disable the text-to-speech in their e-books on the Kindle, which would render an accessible menu fairly pointless. (The same groups mentioned in the article also have been trying to pressure those publishers who have disabled it (e.g., Random House) to re-enable text-to-speech in their Kindle e-books.)

  8. Shhhhh by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 4, Insightful

    You're talking COMMON SENSE there. If you're not careful, the agents of PC and Government interference will show up and arrest you.

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  9. Ebooks not the problem, kindle navigation is by spun · · Score: 5, Informative

    I know no one reads the articles, as that would get in the way of the knee-jerking we all love to do. But the article makes it quite clear: the kindle includes a text-to-speech application, but no way for visually impaired folks to navigate. Therefore, the Kindle is not the right choice of e-book reader for institutions such as colleges and universities to promote. It is the Kindle that is unusable by the blind, not the e-books themselves.

    --
    - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
    1. Re:Ebooks not the problem, kindle navigation is by Cyberllama · · Score: 4, Interesting

      But yet the fact remains it is currently *more* accessible to the disabled than a regular textbook. So let's not have an improvement because we should hold out for an even better improvement?

    2. Re:Ebooks not the problem, kindle navigation is by spun · · Score: 4, Insightful

      No, it isn't more accessible. Without navigation, it is completely inaccessible. But the fix is very easy: tie the user interface into the text-to speech application that already exists on the device. This publicity will ensure that happens in a very timely fashion.

      --
      - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
  10. Let's take this to it's logical extreme by Locke2005 · · Score: 4, Funny

    Attractive supermodels should be required by law to date just as many overweight computer geeks living in their mom's basement as rich, attractive, professional athletes. We're being discriminated against! Tiger Woods is getting more pussy than we do!

    --
    I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
  11. Kindle lacks navigation for visually impaired by spun · · Score: 5, Informative

    The problem isn't e-books or readers per-se. The Kindle even includes a text to speech application. But the Kindle lacks a way for visually impaired readers to navigate, and so, it is absolutely useless as it is. All that needs to be done is to tie the user interface into the text to speech application. That's it. Until that very, very simple problem is solved, colleges and universities are correct not to promote the use of this device. A good bit of publicity early on will ensure that all e-book readers in the future have this simple feature.

    --
    - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
    1. Re:Kindle lacks navigation for visually impaired by eharvill · · Score: 4, Informative
      From the article -

      Amazon.com is making changes to the Kindle to make it more accessible to blind people, a spokesman there said. The Kindle team is working on an audio-based menu system, and the devices will have a super-size font added, Amazon said in a press release. Those new features are due out by mid-2010, the company said.

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  12. Nonsense by A+nonymous+Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    You didn't read the FA. The complaint is that the navigation menus etc are not included in the text-to-speech converter.