Gran Turismo 5 Delayed

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Posted by Soulskill on Wednesday January 13, 2010 @07:01PM from the running-on-fumes dept.

RogueyWon writes "The Times is reporting that Polyphony Digital's Gran Turismo 5, likely to prove a key title for the PlayStation 3, has been delayed indefinitely, despite an expectation that it would be released relatively early in 2010. The delay seems likely to impact Sony's plans to bundle the game with the PlayStation 3 console in time for the important spring sales period in Japan."

122 comments

404 and updated news by sopssa · 2010-01-13 19:01 · Score: 4, Informative

Since the linked article just returns 404, here's EuroGamer's one.
Also note "Update: In related news, Sony Europe has said that the delay is "only applicable for the Japanese market"."
1. Re:404 and updated news by Anonymous Coward · 2010-01-13 19:14 · Score: 1, Informative
  
  Since the linked article just returns 404,
  Link works for me
  ______________________
  It may look amazing, but GT5 remains in the garage
  Gran Turismo on the PSP
  Sony has delayed indefinitely the Japanese launch of Gran Turismo 5, the latest instalment of a hugely complex driving simulation game that cost more than $60 million (£37 million) to develop and for which fans have been waiting for five years.
  The game was due to arrive in Japanese stores in March and the delay is likely to derail Sony’s plans to bundle the PlayStation3 console with it, boosting sales during the critical spring period in Japan.
  The new timetable may involve a launch of the game in Japan this summer, at the same time that it is due to be released in Europe and the United States.
  Ominously, however, Sony did not include a revised launch date along with the announcement, suggesting that there could be further delays to a title that is already nearly three years overdue and reportedly suffering from development issues.
  From the moment that the PlayStation3 was launched in Japan in late 2006, demonstrations of Gran Turismo 5 have left hardcore gamers around the world drooling with anticipation. Previous incarnations of Gran Turismo created especially strong fan bases in Japan and Europe, where the details-obsessed simulator overlapped with the widespread interest in mainstream, and decidedly real rather than virtual, motor sport.
  The series has sold 53 million copies since it began in 1997, but it is five years since GT4 hit screens via the old PlayStation2. The new game will include Nascar racing cars in an attempt to draw more American gamers to the title.
  Successive video-game trade shows and internet trailers have whetted already ravenous appetites with promises of 1,000 cars and 20 tracks, all rendered in glorious definition and with unprecedented realism. The recent online release of one of the GT5 tracks taken from the new game, and a worldwide online racing tournament on it, drew more than a million downloads in less than a week — further evidence of pent-up demand.
  Speculation now centres on the reasons for the game’s delays. Many believe that its sheer complexity may be its downfall: the process of eradicating thousands of bugs may be taking longer than expected. Others believe that the developers’ decision to include a realistic car damage simulator may have created months of further work.
  Analysts suspect that there may be a strategy behind the delay and that Sony is working to spread the effect of a strong games pipeline over a longer period. The recent Japanese launch of Final Fantasy XIII shifted many more PS3 consoles than expected and performed beyond expectations outside Japan.
  If Sony felt that it had already met its console sales targets for its 2009 financial year, analysts said, it might want to push the GT5 launch back a little so that the frenzy surrounding its eventual launch would boost sales in the 2010 financial year. The company may be confident that titles such as God of War 3, Heavy Rain and Bayonetta will keep console sales relatively buoyant through the spring period.
  The Japanese games market shrank in 2009 for the second year in succession, according to data gathered by Enterbrain. Hardware sales fell by 13.6 per cent, despite price cuts to the PS3 and Nintendo’s Wii.
  Against that, global PS3 sales were strong before Christmas, soaring 76 per cent compared with the November to December period in the previous year. Total PS3 unit sales since launch are thought to have passed the 30 million mark.
2. Re:404 and updated news by Anonymous Coward · 2010-01-13 21:59 · Score: 0
  
  How dare you sopssa, as you are apparently a Microsoft apologist according to countless retards here, it is unacceptable that you post something that could decrease the negative impact of this news for one of Microsoft's biggest competitors!
  Or are you working for Sony now too? Yes, that's obviously it! No one could possibly be capable of being objective, ever!
3. Re:404 and updated news by Anonymous Coward · 2010-01-13 23:10 · Score: 0
  
  There is no Europe delay because there was no Europe release date ever announced.
4. Re:404 and updated news by iamhassi · 2010-01-14 06:18 · Score: 1
  
  The irony is they blamed GT5 for PS3 for the delay GT4 for PSP: "Yamauchi stated developing Gran Turismo 5 on the PlayStation 3 "took much more time and effort and this was because loads of new stylish cars have started to come out so it took longer to develop than we had first imagined," and that it was unlikely the PSP version would be released by the end of 2008."
  
  So are they now going to blame the recent release of GT4 for PSP on the delay for GT5, because they were pushing to release the psp version?
  
  I'm so tired of waiting for GT releases and hearing excuses
  
  --
  my karma will be here long after I'm gone
5. Re:404 and updated news by iamhassi · 2010-01-14 06:25 · Score: 1
  
  Oh I forgot this nugget: the reason for the 4 year delay on GT4 for PSP: ""Once we experienced PS3 online and went through all of that, we came to the conclusion that PSP should not be a standalone product - it should be linked in to the world of Gran Turismo, linked with the PlayStation 3," said Yamauchi."
  
  18 months later GT for PSP is released and there is no online play, nor are there any online leaderboards for time trial times or the ability to share ghost laps with other players.
  
  Polyphony is full of crap. I sold my PSP after GT4 was released since there was no point to keeping it anymore.
  
  --
  my karma will be here long after I'm gone
6. Re:404 and updated news by CronoCloud · 2010-01-14 21:43 · Score: 1
  
  The Gran Turismo devs are always overpromising. Didn't they promise online play with GT4 on the PS2?
  That wikipedia page you link to on GT PSP notes that it IS possible to play the game online via the PS3 application Adhoc Party. Course, you need a PS3 using a wired connection to the internet to use that, since it uses the wireless to connect with the PSP. The only reason I can use adhoc party is because I have my PS3 connected to a switch that has a wireless bridge attached to it. (had the bridge for the PS2)
Gran Duke Nukem Turismo... by Rivalz · 2010-01-13 19:16 · Score: 5, Insightful

I remember I bought the PS3 for this game when it first came out.... Now I played their demo which I didnt like very much. Too much anticipation for something builds up my hopes only to crush them. When something that has been in dev for 5 years like too many hands were in the pot. Anyone else feel that way like some games that get announced and delayed feel hollow. Like they've been built from the ground up only to be stripped down for scrap then rebuilt. You end up with something like a rushed sequel when there was no original to reminisce about the glory days. Maybe I'm wrong but thats just my feelings.
1. Re:Gran Duke Nukem Turismo... by BodeNGE · 2010-01-13 19:28 · Score: 1
  
  I bought GT4 specifically for the Nurbergring, and was very disappointed that GT5 preview didn’t include it. The upgraded graphics are OK, but the difference isn’t that great when you are into the action. Would still wait for GT5 just so I can drive the updated vehicles on the Nurbergring. Not losing sleep over the delay.
2. Re:Gran Duke Nukem Turismo... by RogueyWon · 2010-01-13 19:34 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  I remember reading an article, when the PS2 was in its infancy, that the three franchises it needed to have installments in to cement its dominance (the PS2 wasn't actually an instant mega-success) were: Metal Gear Solid, Final Fantasy and Gran Turismo. Now, you could argue that list is a little too exclusive, but there's certainly a nugget of truth in there.
  And now this generation, the PS3 is in a less-than-commanding position, and despite now being several years into this console generation, gamers outside of Japan can only purchase one of those franchises for the PS3. For this reason, I suspect Sony are actually pretty nervous about this delay; you're by no means alone in having bought a PS3 primarily for GT5.
  Of all the reasons for the delay, there's only one I can think of that makes any real sense to me. This is that Polyphony have taken a look at the recently-released Forza 3 and have, correctly, realised: "This has redefined the realistic racing-sim genre. Nothing we have put out so far has had anything like the feature set or the robustness of this. We need to match Forza 3's feature set, while going beyond it in terms of track and car selection if we don't want underwhelming reviews and sales."
  Competing with Forza 3 properly would mean having a proper damage model, having opponent driver AI that is far better than anything we've previously seen in a Gran Turismo game, having all of Forza's advanced online options, such as the auction house, and allowing for the kind of visual customisation of cars that Forza 3 allows. Given that Gran Turismo games to date have basically been updates of the original with better graphics and more cars, but no changes to fundamental features (AI in particular), this may have been a bit of a culture shock for them. But then, Forza 2 and 3 have both come out since the release of Gran Turismo 4, and have provided Polyphony with the kind of competition within the realistic racing genre that they've never had before.
  Fortunately for them, the genre is a bit sparser than the first person shooter market, so they probably don't have to fall into the Duke Nukem Forever trap of trying to out-feature a rapidly evolving set of competitors.
3. Re:Gran Duke Nukem Turismo... by Anonymous Coward · 2010-01-13 19:35 · Score: 0
  
  Nurburgring
4. Re:Gran Duke Nukem Turismo... by Anonymous Coward · 2010-01-13 19:44 · Score: 0
  
  Yeah, no worries. It's probably taking a lot of time to lock off all the new content from casual gamers. ;)
  I bought GT4 and I won't be buying GT5 because most of the paid-for content is locked off in enforced campaign mode. Thank god at least Nurburgring was available with the handful of cars. But I won't let Polyphony rip me off a second time.
5. Re:Gran Duke Nukem Turismo... by Mr+Thinly+Sliced · 2010-01-13 19:59 · Score: 0
  
  "This has redefined the realistic racing-sim genre."
  Whilst I agree that they are getting better - both Forza and the coming GT5 are not really what I would call "sims" - and certainly not redefining realism.
  They are still video games.
  Why would I say this? Well there are closer "simulations" on the market that:
  * Laser scan tracks
  * Laser scan cars
  * Measure, weigh and produce physically correct structural models of the cars
  * Correctly model the "setup" of the car such as toe, camber caster bump rebound etc
  * Properly capture handling as a result of the above
  If you've looked into the racing sim genre, you already know I'm talking about iRacing.
  I'm a racer there and I can say after trying all the various other things on the market, they are the current leader and in a different class to something like Forza or GT5.
  Mr Thinly Sliced
6. Re:Gran Duke Nukem Turismo... by AbRASiON · 2010-01-13 20:11 · Score: 1
  
  I just wrote an epic post about this and forgot to mention the damned damage physics to boot.
  As for your quote "correctly, realised: ..." exactly, absoloutely, PD need to wake the hell up and stop boasting and saying how bloody wonderful they are and SHOW SOMETHING.
7. Re:Gran Duke Nukem Turismo... by Anonymous Coward · 2010-01-13 20:11 · Score: 0
  
  I was very disappointed by the demo. The cars looked good, but the environments were cartoonish. It was like playing GT4, but on a shitty track.
8. Re:Gran Duke Nukem Turismo... by Stormwatch · 2010-01-13 20:22 · Score: 1
  
  when the PS2 was in its infancy, that the three franchises it needed to have installments in to cement its dominance... were: Metal Gear Solid, Final Fantasy and Gran Turismo.
  If that's the case, the Dreamcast had Headhunter, Skies of Arcadia, and Metropolis Street Racer. Life's not fair.
  
  --
  Circumcision is child abuse.
9. Re:Gran Duke Nukem Turismo... by Sycraft-fu · 2010-01-13 20:39 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  Every once and awhile there's a game that takes a long time in development that comes out really good, but in general, once they go past a couple years it is a good bet they are going to suck. There's just only so much time you can usefully spend on a game. In part this is because technology moves fast, so at some point you have to commit things and put together a final product. If not, you do get a DNF scenario where you keep spending time upgrading shit and not doing anything.
  The problem is that game development usually happens in two stages. The first stage is the long one which is gathering things together. This is getting concepts, art, the engine, and shit like that all put together. More or less, getting all the ground work done that you can actually build a game. The amount of time that takes can be a bit indeterminate. However, then, when you are ready, you have something of a crunch time where you start applying that all to actually put together a game.
  Well it seems that some devs have real problems moving out of the first phase in to the second. They want to perpetually be messing with designs and new technologies and such and never freeze things where they are, and crank out an actual product. They seem to think you can have both and you really can't. At some point you have to stop with trying to add things and get down to implementing what you've got. That also has to be done in a reasonable time frame, or your stuff will be stale by the time it gets out.
10. Re:Gran Duke Nukem Turismo... by bronney · 2010-01-13 21:11 · Score: 1
  
  are you nuts? DC was crazy taxi!!! :)
11. Re:Gran Duke Nukem Turismo... by somersault · 2010-01-13 21:20 · Score: 1
  
  I thought it was fine. I really enjoyed GT 1 and 2, but since then I've been away from home studying and didn't have regular access to a PS2 for GT 3 and 4. I have a few other decent driving games for my PS3, and while I'm looking forward to GT5 (and I did enjoy both prologue and this demo), I don't have any amazing expectations. Finding out about the actual visible damage is cool, but GT has always been a high standard. I really like that they are including more cars again because one of my favourite things about the 2nd game was that I had ~600 cars in my garage, and had one to suit any occasion.
  Anyway, just relax and enjoy your other games until then. I just got Need For Speed shift last week and it's a lot of fun in Pro mode. Maybe a bit more grippy than GT5 in Pro mode, but it's still good for practicing your racing technique, and it looks and sounds amazing.
  
  --
  which is totally what she said
12. Re:Gran Duke Nukem Turismo... by somersault · 2010-01-13 21:26 · Score: 1
  
  GT is definitely not aimed at casual gamers. If you're just buying it for arcade mode, you're wasting your money.. why not just get Ridge Racer or "Calling All Cars" and be done with it.
  
  --
  which is totally what she said
13. Re:Gran Duke Nukem Turismo... by RogueyWon · 2010-01-13 21:46 · Score: 5, Interesting
  
  Part of my problem with GT5 so far is actually that they've shown quite a lot; and it's all been underwhelming. I played GT5 Prologue and leaving aside the slimmed down options and feature-set (which you'd expect from a Prologue title), it was just GT4 with high def graphics.
  I remember an almost physically painful sense of disappointment as I played it. The AI opponents were still acting exactly as they did in GT4 - following a pre-defined route around the track with almost no ability to react to the player, or indeed to each other. By contrast in Forza 2 (we didn't have 3 at the time), the AI would duck and dive when you were up close with it, and put real pressure on you when chasing you. Forza 3 takes this even further, by allowing for AI which will sometimes make very human mistakes. I had a spectacular moment in-game the other night, where in a Class A race, I went into a corner with a fraction of a second's lead over the second placed car, noticed him trying to pass me on the outside in the corner, thought "he's going way too fast for this" and then found out I was right, as he spun off the track. Things like that don't happen often, but they do mean that if there were a racing-game AI equivalent of the Turing Test, Forza 3 would come pretty close to passing it. But GT5:Prologue gave absolutely no indication that PD have any intention to replicate this. The AI was just the same old rubberband.
  The lack of a damage model in Prologue was particularly bad, though it's reassuring to see that this is apparently being addressed for the final game. This isn't because I like smashing up cars; it's fun in the Burnout games, but in a GT or Forza title, I'd rather be winning races. It's more because having a damage model in place influences driver behaviour. Back when I was playing GT3 and GT4, I used to cheat horribly. I knew that with no damage model, I could use walls and even other cars to "bounce" myself around corners at speeds I'd never manage with "proper" grip or drift turning techniques. It was worse in multiplayer; sitting around a TV with friends playing GT3 and GT4 would usually degenerate into a game of high-speed dodgems. Fun at first, but it does get old fast. Doing the same with Forza 3 produces a far better experience, that remains fun for a lot longer, as people start to actually race properly.
14. Re:Gran Duke Nukem Turismo... by RogueyWon · 2010-01-13 21:55 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  Yes, I agree that iRacing is a more realistic simulation. Unfortunately, I'm primarily a gamer rather than a racer (I've thrown a car around a track on track days a few times, but that's about it), and this is where iRacing falls down badly compared to Forza 3 and Gran Turismo. Those series have historically struck a pretty fine balance between realism and fun. The entry curve on iRacing is pitched just a bit too high for me.
15. Re:Gran Duke Nukem Turismo... by AbRASiON · 2010-01-13 22:20 · Score: 1
  
  I agree with your post pretty much entirely.
  The saddest part about all this is every single GT 'snippet' I listed since GT4, FEELS LIKE GT4 MODIFIED.
  It doesn't feel like a new engine, the AI feels the same, the sound seems the same, the physics feel the same, it just seems like they added some cars and high res'd some graphics.
16. Re:Gran Duke Nukem Turismo... by TrancePhreak · 2010-01-13 22:22 · Score: 1
  
  The rewind functionality is the only reason I didn't pass Forza 3 up. I'm not that great of a driver and I don't want to re-race a billion times because I missed one turn. If Gran Turismo has no such functionality it is dead to me. I'm not much of a simulation racer anyway.
  
  --
  
  -]Phreak Out[-
17. Re:Gran Duke Nukem Turismo... by Stormwatch · 2010-01-13 22:27 · Score: 1
  
  I mentioned MSR because it was the equivalent to GT (and that soundtrack... Richard Jacques + TJ Davis = awesome). Crazy Taxi was something completely different. But actually, my favorite racing game for the DC was Daytona USA.
  
  --
  Circumcision is child abuse.
18. Re:Gran Duke Nukem Turismo... by Mr+Thinly+Sliced · 2010-01-13 22:28 · Score: 0
  
  I understand where you are coming from - I just think it's a shame that people think that about it when inside the service there's a whole spectrum of talent levels and people there who are definitely doing it for the fun, not just exclusively the captain fast pants racers :-)
  Unfortunately like you mention there are currently only a few cars and tracks (since the scanning and digitising process is heavy) when compared with the console style racers like Forza and GT5. I'm guessing this is where the major turn off is (plus the cost, of course).
19. Re:Gran Duke Nukem Turismo... by RogueyWon · 2010-01-13 22:42 · Score: 1
  
  The inclusion of the rewind function (which in fairness, first appeared in Grid) was one of the single greatest humanitarian acts of the 21st Century so far. I agree that pretty much any racing game developed from this point onwards should include it (perhaps allowing for a "hardcore" mode which disables it).
20. Re:Gran Duke Nukem Turismo... by Tjebbe · 2010-01-13 22:57 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  There's casual and there's casual. If you want an arcade racer, sure your money is well wasted elsewhere. However if you want to have a more simulation-like experience on specific known tracks with cool cars, but are a casual gamer in the sense that you don't want to invest a few working weeks to unlock those, the original comment stands. I kind of have the same gripe with local multiplayer games (like on the wii) that make you unlock the multiplayer fun in singleplayer. Don't know how GT works in this sense (never played it), but if it does, that sucks for those kind of casual players. Sometimes there are unlock codes, but not always.
21. Re:Gran Duke Nukem Turismo... by ciderVisor · 2010-01-13 23:02 · Score: 4, Interesting
  
  Those series have historically struck a pretty fine balance between realism and fun. The entry curve on iRacing is pitched just a bit too high for me.
  Wot he said.
  The closer you get to a perfect simulation of the real world, the quicker the fun aspect goes downhill. I even found GT4 to be 'too real' and sold it on after reluctantly coming to the realisation that while it looked gobsmackingly good, playing it just wasn't very entertaining.
  Forza 3, OTOH, has proved to be a winner in our house. The grind/reward balance is just right, you can casually pick it up and advance your career in 10 minute chunks, and it looks great, too. If you want a harder challenge, you can fine-tune the driving aids to make it more like driving a real car.
  I can imagine that some people want a 'Guitar Hero' that requires as much skill as a real guitar to play but I suspect the learning curve would just make it unapproachable for the general gamer populace.
  
  --
  Squirrel!
22. Re:Gran Duke Nukem Turismo... by ciderVisor · 2010-01-13 23:12 · Score: 1
  
  I had a spectacular moment in-game the other night, where in a Class A race, I went into a corner with a fraction of a second's lead over the second placed car, noticed him trying to pass me on the outside in the corner, thought "he's going way too fast for this" and then found out I was right, as he spun off the track. Things like that don't happen often, but they do mean that if there were a racing-game AI equivalent of the Turing Test, Forza 3 would come pretty close to passing it.
  Seen this a few times myself. Sometimes I act as 'navigator' when my daughter plays the game and have had to tell her a couple of times to believe in her own tactics rather than treat the AI as if they're all perfect drivers. We've seen some aggressive AI drivers inching ahead of us then getting into difficulty on the corners as they try to maintain that lead. By playing a bit more cautiously (whilst keeping the pressure on), you can take advantage of their mistakes.
  Yes, the circuit is alive with real competitors.
  
  --
  Squirrel!
23. Re:Gran Duke Nukem Turismo... by ciderVisor · 2010-01-13 23:15 · Score: 1
  
  Crazy Taxi was available on PS2, too.
  
  --
  Squirrel!
24. Re:Gran Duke Nukem Turismo... by TheKidWho · 2010-01-14 00:59 · Score: 1
  
  Yes it is, GT5 fails compared to some of the more hardcore sims available.
25. Re:Gran Duke Nukem Turismo... by Andy_R · 2010-01-14 01:12 · Score: 1
  
  The really sad thing is that if they had simply added some cars and high res'd some graphics, I'd have bought a PS3 on launch day just to play it, and this would be a post about how I'm willing to wait for GT6, not one about pointing out to Sony that no matter how good the game is, I've already got a Wii and and Xbox360 plugged into my TV downstairs, so it's always going to be too little too late.
  
  --
  A pizza of radius z and thickness a has a volume of pi z z a
26. Re:Gran Duke Nukem Turismo... by AbRASiON · 2010-01-14 01:18 · Score: 1
  
  I love these kind of games but I am on a serious time budget. I honestly don't think or feel it's cheating. The people who use rewind get different scoreboards iirc to differntiate online etc.
  It's a smart and simple feature which can keep everyone interested in finishing a race.
  I quit both F1 and F2 when I got to the stupid handling US super muscle cars like the high end Corvette or the Cobra, it was just too hard.
  Now it's not - I don't know if I'd pass up GT5 but I'd seriously be un-imprrssed if it lacked the feature (and I bet it doesn't!)
27. Re:Gran Duke Nukem Turismo... by AbRASiON · 2010-01-14 01:22 · Score: 1
  
  Guys just because he's mentioned iracing a few times doesn't mean he's a shill.
  I've come in to the thread ranting about Forza and got a +5 (I'm not a shill either)
  This is a thread about sim racing or at least close to sim racing (console 'sims' are obviously GT and Forza)
  Whoever is reducing his posts to 0 cut it out, it's still mostly on topic about the genre.
  As I said before tho, most of us just can't focus on it, it's like WWII sim games and so on, there's a fine niche of ultra sim games on the PC now which are bloody fantastic but demand a LOT of time and sure aren't plug and play.
  None the less, let him have his say.
28. Re:Gran Duke Nukem Turismo... by hardburn · 2010-01-14 02:36 · Score: 1
  
  IIRC, the "paid add on" idea has been more or less dropped because people hated it. I'm sure there will still be downloadable content, but that's not a big deal if the shrink-wrapped game is reasonably complete.
  
  --
  Not a typewriter
29. Re:Gran Duke Nukem Turismo... by Gravatron · 2010-01-14 02:37 · Score: 1
  
  The weird thing to me is, they actually did that to Wipeout. Wipeout HD is just previous tracks in smooth HD, with a slew of game modes and online play for like, $40, but man was it fun.
  
  PD seem to be overly perfectionist with this game. It seems like it was a game ready for release years ago, they just won't put a final OK on it, and Sony doesn't seem to be putting pressure on them to do so.
30. Re:Gran Duke Nukem Turismo... by hardburn · 2010-01-14 02:57 · Score: 1
  
  This. During the first stage, people come up with all sorts of ideas and start putting them together. If management asks when it will be done, they reply "when it's finished". That answer is fine at that point.
  But if you've gotten to the second stage and you're still saying that, something is wrong. If your people are sufficiently creative, they'll be coming up with more ideas than they possibly have time to implement. You need to pick the features that are really necessary and concentrate on those.
  You can see this in pretty much any software project, not just games. If you look at Parrot's development cycle, you'll see a long time when developers are coming up new ideas, getting them half-implemented, and then thinking of something else and repeating the cycle. When they finally decided on a short list of things they needed to get done for a full release (in late 2008), version 1.0 was done within a few months.
  
  --
  Not a typewriter
31. Re:Gran Duke Nukem Turismo... by Anonymous Coward · 2010-01-14 03:25 · Score: 0
  
  Only after Sega quit the hardware business. Crazy Taxi was a first-party title.
32. Re:Gran Duke Nukem Turismo... by somersault · 2010-01-14 03:26 · Score: 1
  
  When I played Arcade mode in the first few GT games (it's the only way to do multiplayer) there were a few decent cars available from each class (from normal everyday cars up to supercars). Definitely a low percentage of all the cars out of the game of course.
  I can see the logic in having all the cars there for multiplayer games, but it still feels kind of cheap to me. When it comes to real party style games though that you only even bought just for a multiplayer experience, it really is a pain to have things all locked down at the start. For stuff like GT I really don't mind playing to unlock the cars though, and even only playing a couple of races here and there you could quickly save up enough for some cool cars if you actually are a good enough driver to want the "simulation" experience. You also win cars for winning events so it adds a bit of interest where you will try cars that otherwise you might have just passed by.
  
  --
  which is totally what she said
33. Re:Gran Duke Nukem Turismo... by somersault · 2010-01-14 03:34 · Score: 1
  
  Those sims are generally only available on PC AFAIK. There are maybe some F1 sims for consoles that are more realistic, but they also are quite limited in their scope, as you can only drive F1 cars. What would you say is a better sim on a console? I'd quite like to try it as I love my driving and driving games.
  I think the bar is generally pretty high these days though as even stuff like NFS Pro Street and NFS Shift seemed to have pretty decent handling models. Games like Race Driver: GRID are good fun but there is definitely too much grip, you really notice it when switching from playing something like GT.
  
  --
  which is totally what she said
34. Re:Gran Duke Nukem Turismo... by Hadlock · 2010-01-14 03:39 · Score: 1
  
  I recall Gran Turismo 4 taking about as long to complete as well. Fantastic game, but took about 3x as long to deliver as they needed. I bought a PS2 specifically for GT4, but it was then delayed about two years before release. I've since given up on buying consoles.
  
  --
  moox. for a new generation.
35. Re:Gran Duke Nukem Turismo... by Alizarin+Erythrosin · 2010-01-14 04:24 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  But GT5:Prologue gave absolutely no indication that PD have any intention to replicate this. The AI was just the same old rubberband.
  I'm not so sure that the AI in GT3/4 was a rubberband model. If you had a really good car for the race, you could win by laps, or large amounts of time quite easily. A car that was too slow, and, well, you were bringing up the rear. It seemed like each car in the race was destined to finish in a certain spot, and you have to beat the fastest car to win. They drove a perfect race at the pace the car would allow, and you just had to do better, or have a faster car.
  
  --
  There are only 10 kinds of people in this world... those who understand binary and those who don't
36. Re:Gran Duke Nukem Turismo... by Plastic+Pencil · 2010-01-14 04:42 · Score: 1
  
  I heard the Duke is now driving a 'pimped' out Skyline...
37. Re:Gran Duke Nukem Turismo... by LWATCDR · 2010-01-14 05:08 · Score: 1
  
  My big complaint is that it lacks Sebring. It would be nice if had PBI raceway but there is no big races held there. Of course Tourist Trophy lacks Daytona but that is another issue.
  
  --
  See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
38. Re:Gran Duke Nukem Turismo... by RogueyWon · 2010-01-14 05:47 · Score: 1
  
  That's not the kind of rubberband I meant. Apologies if I was unclear (the term is ambiguous). I meant that the cars followed a set path around the track and, if knocked off it, would return to that path as though on a rubber band.
39. Re:Gran Duke Nukem Turismo... by iamhassi · 2010-01-14 06:10 · Score: 1
  
  "Given that Gran Turismo games to date have basically been updates of the original with better graphics and more cars, but no changes to fundamental features (AI in particular), this may have been a bit of a culture shock for them. But then, Forza 2 and 3 have both come out since the release of Gran Turismo 4, and have provided Polyphony with the kind of competition within the realistic racing genre that they've never had before."
  
  Having never played a Forza game but having bought all GT games to date, I'd have to disagree with you. GT fans will buy the new GT game regardless of competitors. The fact that GT for PSP came out 4 years after the initial release date and then didn't even have a career mode proves Polyphony could care less what the competition offers or what customers want. (instead of a career mode, you race around any track you want for $$, then use the $$ to buy better cars, mods, etc. All the tracks are unlocked from the beginning and there are no licenses to earn)
  
  --
  my karma will be here long after I'm gone
40. Re:Gran Duke Nukem Turismo... by Stormwatch · 2010-01-14 07:37 · Score: 1
  
  Wait, a bit of a correction... Sega GT was the intended equivalent to Gran Turismo, but it wasn't that great (sloppy controls), while Metropolis Street Racer was just awesome.
  
  --
  Circumcision is child abuse.
41. Re:Gran Duke Nukem Turismo... by Anonymous Coward · 2010-01-14 07:55 · Score: 0
  
  There's price, though. Anyone can buy a guitar and amp and play a real guitar, so there's really no need for a realistic Guitar Hero. Many people, like me, play GT because we can't afford a separate fun car, racing insurance, track time, etc.
  I agree with the point that most of the market wants fun, not realism. But there is a significant fraction that wants a driving simulator, whereas there's no need at all for a guitar simulator.
42. Re:Gran Duke Nukem Turismo... by tom17 · 2010-01-15 03:28 · Score: 1
  
  Looks great if you want to drive formula cars or yank cars or a Jetta. You got me all excited there for a moment :(
  
  Oooh but it has Mosport too! My local! I may have to give it a go after all so I can learn the track!
  
  Tom...
The next DNF? by S.O.B. · 2010-01-13 19:45 · Score: 2, Funny

Is Gran Turismo 5 using the same engine as Duke Nukem Forever?

--
Some of what I say is fact, some is conjecture, the rest I'm just blowing out my ass...you guess.
1. Re:The next DNF? by Anonymous Coward · 2010-01-13 19:54 · Score: 5, Funny
  
  This series of ingame screen-shots might bring some light to the situation: http://i.imgur.com/ZnQAr.jpg
2. Re:The next DNF? by davidbrit2 · 2010-01-14 00:10 · Score: 1
  
  It's time to kick ass and burn rubber. And I'm all out of rubber.
3. Re:The next DNF? by Anonymous Coward · 2010-01-14 00:54 · Score: 0
  
  And the letters D. N. F. are even more appropriate here.
4. Re:The next DNF? by LoudMusic · 2010-01-14 01:44 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  Did Not Finish? ;)
  
  --
  No sig for you. YOU GET NO SIG!
5. Re:The next DNF? by sootman · 2010-01-14 05:38 · Score: 1
  
  I heard the problem was Clint Eastwood didn't want to give this game the go-ahead, that he wanted his movie to stand on its own.
  
  --
  Dear Slashdot: next time you want to mess with the site, add a rich-text editor for comments.
GT5 is the new DNF by gullevek · 2010-01-13 19:52 · Score: 0, Redundant

Can't count how often it was delayed.

--
"Freiheit ist immer auch die Freiheit des Andersdenkenden" - Rosa Luxemburg, 1871 - 1919
1. Re:GT5 is the new DNF by Anonymous Coward · 2010-01-13 22:25 · Score: 0
  
  Even worse, the GT5 Prologue is now under Greatest Hits....
So these guys keep wanting to prove my point! by AbRASiON · 2010-01-13 20:05 · Score: 5, Insightful

For the past 2 to 3 years I have been harping on at numerous forums how I'm not entirely convinced that Polyphony Digital actually know what the hell they are doing.
GT4 was a splendid game for the time, the physics were great for a PS2 and 'semi' realistic racer (see: Proper PC Sims for insane physics but much much more niche) the menu music was nice and I liked how they didn't throw cars at you like dollar notes to a stripper, I had to 'bond' with my first car and work my way up with it. I had that MX5 for about 50 races.
Now, if you actually read any articles and interviews, the GT guys seem to want to add every single possible gametype to the game.
WRC, F1, Nascar, 'standard' racing cars and of course modified real cars too. Apparently they are going to be able to handle the driving physics and engines for all these types (oh and motorbikes in the latest news articles!)
I think they are diluting the hell out of the game just trying to throw anything and everything at it.
Forza has a few good things going for it, for one it has probably some of the best rumble and audio queues in a racing game since Rallisport challenge 2. As ridiculous as it sounds, you feel as if you really can feel the track / wheel traction just from a controller. The audio is very good at distinguishing traction, the rumble is just right and combined they work well.
GT however has been re-using the same 'arcade style' traction squeel which sounds like it came out of Outrun since GT3.
No, I'm not joking, go and play GT3, GT4, GT4 Prologue, GT5 Prologue, GT5 Limited Jap demo, GT HD Concept and finally GT Academy - the tire squeel sound is not only the same, it's just plain annoying!
While I'm at it, they keep releasing things like GT HD Concept, GT5 Jap Demo, GT5 Prologue, GT Academy (Europe series and Aus/NZ series!) and I believe I'm missing one of the GT5 demos too... can I just be blunt and say, where the heck is the game for goodness sakes? Now in the time that GT4 has shipped, Turn 10 under Microsoft have shipped Forza 1, Forza 2 and Forza 3, furthermore it's not like they "madden'd!" the Forza series, each game had quite a fair while between each release with substantial changes to them and improvements.
Example Forza 1 and 2 had crappy emo rock thrashy music in the menus which just got on your nerves, whereas GT4 - credit where credit is due had this very laid back elevator style music you could (and would) comfortably listen to all day in a 12 hour rainy Sunday racing and upgrading session. Now Forza 3 has some pretty relaxed menu beats, rewind feature (best thing EVER for anyone who isn't an extreme racer) You've got brilliant graphics, a car trading and buying system - etc.
Also if you listened to the 1up podcasts about 18 months back Shane Bettenhausen quoted the Polyphony GT guys as basically saying "we're the best, we don't care about the competition we literally haven't even seen Forza 1 or 2" this arrogance frankly pisses me off as I just want a good product from both companies. Forza 2 most certainly WAS worth PD looking at, there are several improvements. (FWIW They finally did sneak a peak at F3 mid 2009 if I recall, the game was delayed a few months later)
So why am I posting this? I'm basically sick of speaking to mates or anyone really about games and when GT comes up it's "wow, amazing, best ever, insane!" along with "GT5 will be best/better/amazing" along with "Forza is arcadey shit" (Me:) "Have you played it?" "Nah but I've seen it!" - that's a real conversation I've had with not 1 but 2 normally intelligent people.
I love my PS3, vastly more than my 360 and genuinely dislike the business model of XBLive Gold, dislike the nickel and diming, dislike the reliability issues and I still purchased a 360 JUST for Forza 3 and it was worth every cent.
I may as well get the whole rant out there.
GT5 Prologue, no car modding? for 60$ AUD (40$ US?) you have to be bloody joking!
Also, I may be called a heathen but between the good feedback audio, controller rumble
1. Re:So these guys keep wanting to prove my point! by Mr+Thinly+Sliced · 2010-01-13 20:16 · Score: 0
  
  You seem like a chap who likes his racing games. Can I ask if you have considered or tried iRacing?.
  There is such a lot of casual racers out there that might enjoy iRacing but they don't seem to cross over.
  Is it the cost?
  The need to setup a proper wheel / cockpit?
  Don't want to lose the "casual" aspect of pick up racing?
  I'm genuinely curious as of course I'd love to have more people in the service .-)
  (I don't work for iRacing, I'm just a racer there and love it.)
2. Re:So these guys keep wanting to prove my point! by AbRASiON · 2010-01-13 20:37 · Score: 1
  
  I teeter right on the edge of hardcore, so I very very nearly purchased a 700$ AUD wheel (only multiplatform one in existence >:( ) but I do still enjoy laying back on the couch and relaxing.
  Richard Burns Rally had the best most insane physics for a WRC game ever, it was too hard for me to dedicate myself to and I'm sure it's fun but it's just a time thing.
  I'm the perfect GT or Forza demographic, I'll throw 50 hours at a great racing game but probably quit there, I also don't like the idea of sitting at my PC doing it, I've even got a nice monitor and chair but a couch is just how it should be unless you're proper, proper serious about it, pretty niche stuff.
3. Re:So these guys keep wanting to prove my point! by Mr+Thinly+Sliced · 2010-01-13 20:49 · Score: 0
  
  Yeah fair enough. iRacing does have a bit of the "serious business" about it - but I guess in a way that's also it's appeal.
  I went the whole hog and built a cockpit out of an old wardrobe (not pretty, but very race-able with bucket seat and hanging down pedals :-).
  I stuck a couple of projectors side by side and race with an image in-front of the cockpit about 3 metres wide and .7 metres high. Actually gives me a bit of motion sickness on some tracks with large elevation changes and fast corners (Infineon for example).
  For reference, iRacing are in the process of getting some Aussie V8's in the service and I think Oran Park / Phillip Island Raceway are planned for scanning too. (Bathhurst is currently in an exclusive EA contract, so no love on that front yet.)
  Have a good one!
4. Re:So these guys keep wanting to prove my point! by bronney · 2010-01-13 21:14 · Score: 1
  
  Now, if you actually read any articles and interviews, the GT guys seem to want to add every single possible gametype to the game.
  WRC, F1, Nascar, 'standard' racing cars and of course modified real cars too. Apparently they are going to be able to handle the driving physics and engines for all these types
  Welcome to TOCA Race Driver.
5. Re:So these guys keep wanting to prove my point! by Anonymous Coward · 2010-01-14 00:14 · Score: 0
  
  So to any Sony lovers or racing lovers, please for the love of god just give Forza an honest to god sit down and try...
  I will, just as soon as it's released for PS3.
6. Re:So these guys keep wanting to prove my point! by TheKidWho · 2010-01-14 01:22 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  For the past 2 to 3 years I have been harping on at numerous forums how I'm not entirely convinced that Polyphony Digital actually know what the hell they are doing.
  I've been trying to explain this to my friends for the past few years, I loved GT1 and GT2, heck even GT3/4 were entertaining to a degree. But GT was never really a Sim, and with all the crap they are trying to throw into GT5, it won't be a sim either. It's just a fun racing game IMO.
7. Re:So these guys keep wanting to prove my point! by Nabeel_co · 2010-01-14 01:52 · Score: 1
  
  But it's generally considered to be the most realistic driving game/simulator commercially available isn't it?
8. Re:So these guys keep wanting to prove my point! by TheKidWho · 2010-01-14 01:57 · Score: 1
  
  Hell no.
  Go try out iRacing, THAT is the most realistic commercially available sim and it is in an entirely different league then Gran Turismo.
  Heck, I would say Need For Speed: Shift is more realistic than Gran Turismo with some of the realism mods. That again is the beauty of the PC, mods.
9. Re:So these guys keep wanting to prove my point! by Nabeel_co · 2010-01-14 02:11 · Score: 1
  
  Cool.
  Does it have damage modelling? And a wide assortment of cars from most manufacturers?
10. Re:So these guys keep wanting to prove my point! by TheKidWho · 2010-01-14 02:17 · Score: 1
  
  It has a small assortment of racing cars, reason being all the cars are modeled realistically. It's more of a professional sim/MMO style "game," I hesitate to call it a game as it is used extensively by race car drivers for professional practice. All of the race tracks are laser scanned and have incredible accuracy. Damage modeling works fairly well in the game too, however vehicle dynamics have no competition.
11. Re:So these guys keep wanting to prove my point! by j-turkey · 2010-01-14 02:32 · Score: 1
  
  Cool. Does it have damage modelling? And a wide assortment of cars from most manufacturers?
  Not much and no. The goal of iRacing is to create a realistic online racing experience - damage modeling is weak, and the car selection is limited (but the cars are equal, and represent real-world race cars). Check out some of the reviews for more information - there are plenty out there. The physics are extremely realistic - among the best that I've ever seen. The graphics are clearly not the focus of this game - if you're looking for the best eye candy out there, this game isn't for you. One of the problems with other online sims is that the stakes are low - crashing into other cars carries no penalties. On other sims (e.g. Race, rFactor, etc), many racers who spin on the first lap will sit at the end of the track and try to crash everyone out and ruin their races. iRacing does a very good job of curbing this behavior by enforcing a stringent safety rating system. I still get butterflies in my stomach at the starting grid of a race.
  
  --
  
  -Turkey
12. Re:So these guys keep wanting to prove my point! by bmajik · 2010-01-14 02:42 · Score: 4, Interesting
  
  The thing most people haven't realized about the GT series of games is that they aren't really racing / simulation games. A friend explained it properly: Gran Turismo is Pokemon with Cars.
  Forza1 came out and crushed it, physics-wise. Each successive Forza iteration has embarassed the then-current GT game in terms of accuracy of driving model.
  True, Forza has always lagged in terms of number of Front Wheel Drive Micro-Vans compared to Gran Turismo.
  I have a fair bit of actual track driving experience in stock and lightly prepared cars. I've also driven the nordschliefe in meat space [rent a car when you visit Germany; anyone can do it].
  People who laud the Gran Turismo games as being the "real driving simulator" are embarassing themselves.
  
  --
  My opinions are my own, and do not necessarily represent those of my employer.
13. Re:So these guys keep wanting to prove my point! by cynyr · 2010-01-14 02:44 · Score: 1
  
  not to be too picky but i'll be buying GT5 mostly for the dirt tracks/WRC mode, unless you know of a different PS3 rally "sim"? Also, Forza3 seems to be xbox360 only, so that would be what? $200+$60 for xbox+forza. too much to "try it out"
  
  --
  All of the above was encrypted with a Quad ROT-13 method. Unauthorized decryption is in violation of the DMCA.
14. Re:So these guys keep wanting to prove my point! by RyuuzakiTetsuya · 2010-01-14 02:53 · Score: 1
  
  Forza is to Gran Turismo as Road and Track is to Top Gear.
  Forza is about cars. Gran Turismo is about driving. Until i see crazy shit like the Model T, crazy 60's racers, and the DeLorean in Forza, no sale. Gran Turismo is a love letter to the car. Forza's a book report.
  
  --
  Non impediti ratione cogitationus.
15. Re:So these guys keep wanting to prove my point! by bmajik · 2010-01-14 03:01 · Score: 1
  
  Congratulations. You have discovered (and transcribed above) the only known peice of Vogon Poetry on the topic of Video Games with Cars in them.
  I applaud you for this contribution to slashdot and humanity.
  However, I am not especially sophisticated, and can be at times, dense. What does what you wrote actually _mean_ ?
  
  --
  My opinions are my own, and do not necessarily represent those of my employer.
16. Re:So these guys keep wanting to prove my point! by CaptSlaq · 2010-01-14 03:45 · Score: 1
  
  It's ideas like this that will get the sports car killed for the everyman. Racing is for the track, not the public road, unless that public road has been designated a track like they do with rally and other forms of road racing.
  Read this and see if you can see it happening.
17. Re:So these guys keep wanting to prove my point! by CaptSlaq · 2010-01-14 04:01 · Score: 1
  
  I would have agreed with the GP up until they started yanking all of the fluff about the cars from the game starting with GT3 (I think? It's been a while).
  Gran Turismo and GT2 was like Pokemon for cars. The thing is that there was all sorts of little facts that were put into the game about the cars (and tracks) that made made the game very interesting for car lovers as myself, and caused us to dig for mor information on the things we really liked.
  GT3 and GT4 moved away from the fluff, sadly, and all you get is a list of technical specifications that, while interesting, don't ever tell the whole story.
  Getting back to why I replied: The GP loves the idea of the car, and the GT series really caters to that. Forza is more of a game in which driving is more emphasized than the car. It's a subtle, but distinct difference. For GT1 and 2, I wholeheartedly agree. 3 and 4, it's still true, but I think the idea was diminished by the lack of fluff.
18. Re:So these guys keep wanting to prove my point! by Wyatt+Earp · 2010-01-14 04:32 · Score: 1
  
  Apples to oranges. Road and Track is a magazine, Top Gear is TV.
  http://www.roadandtrack.com/ - http://www.topgear.com/uk/
  You should have said Road and Track and Car.
  I've played all the Gran Turismo for PS1 and 2, Forza 2 & 3 and I'd say its more accurate to say Forza is the spiritual successor to GT. I've checked out the previews for GT5 (I don't own a PS3) and I think GT lost its way. The poster above did a really good job explaining why Forza is better now.
19. Re:So these guys keep wanting to prove my point! by stewbacca · 2010-01-14 05:33 · Score: 1
  
  "Groop I implore thee!"
20. Re:So these guys keep wanting to prove my point! by stewbacca · 2010-01-14 05:44 · Score: 1
  
  As ridiculous as it sounds, you feel as if you really can feel the track / wheel traction just from a controller. The audio is very good at distinguishing traction, the rumble is just right and combined they work well.
  Not ridiculous at all. "Real" racing sims are unplayable without audible cues. This goes back to one of the pioneers, Grand Prix Legends. Force feedback was a bit of a gimmick back then, but I don't know if it has actually matured to a level of improving the realism by giving drivers real cues to directional stability, because I haven't played a good racing sim since NASCAR2003.
21. Re:So these guys keep wanting to prove my point! by stewbacca · 2010-01-14 05:47 · Score: 1
  
  Oh yeah, and another thing, real racing sims don't fret about menu music choices, and you don't have to unlock cars or complete levels. Those things are very important for a casual game, but merely a distraction to developing a good sim.
22. Re:So these guys keep wanting to prove my point! by fotbr · 2010-01-14 05:47 · Score: 1
  
  Funny. My justification for buying a 360 over a PS3 was that $300+$60 for a full game (forza 2) was cheaper than $400+$40 for a demo (gt5 prolog). Of course, that was back when both consoles were still fairly new.
  I've since gone back to PCs because I want simulators, not games.
23. Re:So these guys keep wanting to prove my point! by stewbacca · 2010-01-14 05:49 · Score: 1
  
  One last thing...you should never talk about any camera view other than the cockpit view if you are talking about a serious racing sim. Who cares if the bumper cam is off (and how would you know...have you drive your car from the bumper before).
  Other than that, I enjoyed your post and will probably be buying an Xbox 360 and Forza, because I tried GT5 prologue and was underwhelmed, and frankly, I'm tired of waiting for something I'm starting to believe won't live up to the hype.
24. Re:So these guys keep wanting to prove my point! by Anonymous Coward · 2010-01-14 07:33 · Score: 0
  
  Obligatory question: have you tried Forza 3? It's way less spreadsheet-y than Forza 2, or GT4 for that matter. I don't see how having an extremely large number of cars makes the game any less about cars.
  Neither series compares to Shift if you want a game about driving, though. Shift is all about the experience of driving. And it's excellent in that regard. The physics are closer to a GT/Forza than to GRID (but still not all the way over), the sounds and cockpit head movement are awesome, and it's just an extremely fun time overall.
25. Re:So these guys keep wanting to prove my point! by AbRASiON · 2010-01-14 08:29 · Score: 1
  
  I understand your sentiment on the cockpit view completely and Forza's is pretty good but they do obfuscate (sp?) the view quite badly unless you have a mammoth television.
  I find the roof camera (basically it's cockpit +1.5' height, minus controls) is the best one in Forza.
  I am not one of those dopey kiddies who does rear view third person just to see my car, that's not racing at all, it's just that both games's cockpit view is simply too small to see anything, it's all to do with FOV and TV size - if you do the cockpit view in Forza 3 with 3 TV's and 3x360's and 3x the game, it looks great (yes, it supports that)
  Essentially roof cam is cockpit, with no dials - also my TV doesn't support depth of field like my eyeballs do, tuning out the dash of the car and the roof / doors.
Because its so difficult by jhoegl · 2010-01-13 20:08 · Score: 0, Flamebait

Its so tough developing maps of circular road.

zzzzzzzzz
1. Re:Because its so difficult by Anonymous Coward · 2010-01-13 20:50 · Score: 0
  
  Actually I doubt they're delaying the game because of development this time. There are a lot of other good games coming out this spring and they're probably after maxing out sales. It reminds of me of capcom who delayed their entire lineup of games for this entire year.
Wasn't this originally shown off at E3 2006? by BobisOnlyBob · 2010-01-13 20:25 · Score: 0, Redundant

Sony's infamous and embarrassing 2006 press conference featured GT5, I thought it was near completion at the time.
Shades of the West Brothers. by Anonymous Coward · 2010-01-13 20:33 · Score: 0

You think a 5 year delay is long? Try a 12 year delay for a racing product, any product, especially when it comes from the West Brothers. "Who are the West Brothers" you ask? Sit back and let me tell you a quick tale about a long piece of vaporware.
Backstory: Two decades ago in the late 90s, the West Brothers were contracted to do a game called "World Sports Cars". They had previously been on the development teams of such arcade classics as "Hard Drivin" and "Race Driving". Chris and Tony were certainly at the forefront of realistic driving sims. Games like these certainly influenced later PC sims such as "Grand Prix Legends". So when time came for a GT style game, the Wests were a natural fit. And so the development started on WSC. After numerous DNF styled delays, they were told by their publisher to take off. Then in 2001 they announced Racing Legends, a sprawling race sim that would encompass careers, cars with lifespans. It was an ambitious project, especially for a 2 man team. Their last update was in October 2003, their last communique was in January of 2004. Since then? Nothing, nada, zilch. Once in a while their 3rd member (Gregor Veble, physics consultant) will respond to a jab with a very vague answer that does not even confirm it is still being worked on. Here's what you need to read:
http://www.racing-legends.com/news.htm
http://www.west-racing.com/forum/index.php?topic=2395.0
Google up on WSC to gain a greater understanding of the Wests, and how they are the rightful heirs to the DNF vaporware crown. People have gone to college, graduated with Comp Sci degrees and actually put out multiple games in the same time that the West Brothers have delivered...NOTHING. The multi class racing sim has been ursurped by Dave Kaemmer (of Sierra/Papyrus NASCAR Racing fame) and his iRacing game.
It's a good thing by dgbrownnt · 2010-01-13 21:01 · Score: 1

It's a good thing the entire reason I bought my PS3 was blueray. Otherwise I might be disapointed... again...
who wants gran turismo 5 and forza 3.... by Anonymous Coward · 2010-01-13 21:01 · Score: 0

when you can just play the superior open source competitor? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJLDiYmvipg
rigs of rods.
the rest of the physics are on par with the crashing part, is a frikkin innovative physics engine, the graphics build on ogre, it has an aerodynamics system similar to x-plane, and the reason you havent heard about it yet is that it was open sourced only recently and the features that make it a car simulator are quite new too. the graphics are rapidly improving thanks to ogre3d, and now im done with the shameless advertising. click the video. seriously.
1. Re:who wants gran turismo 5 and forza 3.... by stewbacca · 2010-01-14 05:32 · Score: 1
  
  All I see in your "superior open source competitor" is off-roading and trucks. That is not a competitor to sports cars on a racing circuit (unless Rigs of Rods has that as well).
2. Re:who wants gran turismo 5 and forza 3.... by Anonymous Coward · 2010-01-14 06:15 · Score: 0
  
  thats because you didnt click the video as i told you to.
  guys, click the video. its awesome.
3. Re:who wants gran turismo 5 and forza 3.... by Anonymous Coward · 2010-01-14 06:35 · Score: 0
  
  because you havent clicked the video showing off the awesomeness coming from their very own mass spring system physics engine, baby. it's with a car, and a racing circuit. there you go. however, for the sauce and secret jaw dropper click (it's youtube, what could you possibly lose)
i'm patient by CaptainNerdCave · 2010-01-13 21:08 · Score: 1

considering that polyphony has broken ground with everything they've released, i don't think it's unrealistic to wait a little longer for them to reinvent the wheel.
having played the demo of gt5, i'm excited to see the whole game. personally, i don't think it needs some of the silliness that forza has added, but i haven't played anything past the first installment (ai drivers that drive race cars like bumper cars? what a waste).
i do like that the gran turismo series has stayed fairly strict to the spirit of racing and simulation, but i understand that big sales will require appealing to a broader audience. i only hope that appeal doesn't destroy the game like so many of the other racing games out there.
1. Re:i'm patient by MrMickS · 2010-01-13 21:38 · Score: 1
  
  having played the demo of gt5, i'm excited to see the whole game. personally, i don't think it needs some of the silliness that forza has added, but i haven't played anything past the first installment (ai drivers that drive race cars like bumper cars? what a waste).
  Wow, way to state and invalidate your opinion in the same sentence.
  I played GT, GT2, GT3 and GT4 to death. You can't honestly say anything about the AI in Forza. The AI in the GT series isn't exactly good.
  
  --
  You may think me a tired, old, cynic. I'd have to disagree about the tired bit.
2. Re:i'm patient by AbRASiON · 2010-01-14 01:27 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  Your post reads EXACTLY like the type of post I was talking about earlier, blind loyalty and dismissive of the competition without trying it properly.
  Brand loyalty is fine and all but using some common sense and being objective can help y'know.
3. Re:i'm patient by CaptainNerdCave · 2010-01-16 17:55 · Score: 1
  
  i am not blindly loyal to any one line of product, the gran turismo series has consistently been superior to everything else i've played. i did not play the first part of the series, but from 2 onward, i've not been disappointed.
  with the exception of forza and toca, all of the others are very cartoony games that leave a lot to be desired in realism, track selection, performance, variations, modifications, and ai. toca and forza fall short in many categories, but they're better than most. given the comparison between only forza and gran turismo, gran turismo wins. given that i don't have a ps3 or xbox360, forza 2 and 3 aren't even contenders, especially since i was so disappointed by forza.
  when i hear from people who have played forza 2 that it doesn't improve much on the features that we mutually disliked in the first installment, there is little to encourage me to play. there are many things that deter me from forza et al, limiting it to just "ai" is like saying that i don't drive a red ford excursion because i don't like red (which is irrational and irrelevant).
4. Re:i'm patient by AbRASiON · 2010-01-16 18:21 · Score: 1
  
  So you don't have a PS3 or a 360 so I can only conclude you haven't played GT5 Prologue or Forza 3?
  Forza 3 is a huge improvement over Forza 2 and has effectively rendered the game totally null and void, simply no reason to play it as they have moved on in many many ways.
  GT5 Prologue however, you've played it, you've totally played it, do you know why? Because it's bloody identical to GT4 except HD, substantially less cars and no car modding (for 40$ US - awesome!)
  Each and ever GT product since GT4, even demo, trial, limited demo, prologue - they all feel completely and utterly the same as each other and I have to question if it's not the GT4 engine simply modified (heavily) for PS3.
  Also you're suggesting that the AI isn't the only thing which you dislike in Forza and there's more to it even if that's been fixed, would that be right?
  If so, good because there's a lot more than just AI which is superior, things like audio, handling, controller rumble, physics, features (rewind), AVAILABILITY SINCE ONE ISN'T OUT YET, online features, car damage, car rolling,... the list goes on. I've played both franchises extensively and as one person in this news post has said and I quote "I've played all the Gran Turismo for PS1 and 2, Forza 2 & 3 and I'd say its more accurate to say Forza is the spiritual successor to GT. I've checked out the previews for GT5 (I don't own a PS3) and I think GT lost its way. The poster above did a really good job explaining why Forza is better now."
  I recommend you check out Forza 3, the series has come a long way since number 1 a long long way - that's the saddest part because GT hasn't done a damned thing really since GT3.
5. Re:i'm patient by CaptainNerdCave · 2010-01-17 17:58 · Score: 1
  
  actually, i rented a ps3 and downloaded the prologue demo for free. if you think that gran turismo 5 is identical to 4, i have to wonder if you were able to distinguish a difference between 2 and 3 or 3 and 4.
  i am encouraged by your review of forza 3 and comparing it to the previous 2 parts of the series. when i next have a couple of days to devote to some serious electronic gaming, i will make it a point to rent an xbox360 and see if forza 3 gives the same kind of excitement that gran turismo 3 did when i first played it.
  most people scoff at the idea of buying a console for a single game, but i have had zero regrets about buying a ps2 for gran turismo 3 and spending many solid weeks playing it (obviously, i found other things worth playing when gran turismo lost its luster, even though i come back to it often). i imagine the same will be true of the next console that i purchase.
I propose a new working title by Anonymous Coward · 2010-01-13 21:12 · Score: 0

They should rename it Gran Turismo Forever. I'm sure 3D Realms could give them plenty of tips on how to speed up development.
Re:Dr. Bob Brier did this already. by onlysolution · 2010-01-13 22:04 · Score: 1

Congratulations, you posted in the wrong article. Pity you didn't accidentally post as AC.
Re:Dr. Bob Brier did this already. by Xest · 2010-01-13 22:14 · Score: 1

I think you're in the wrong room. The one you want is just down the hall, this is the "Gran Turismo 5 Delayed" lecture.
I know it's not looking good for GT5, but I don't think mummification needs to be on the cards for it just yet!
Re:Duke Turismo... by anss123 · 2010-01-14 00:32 · Score: 1

I've heard that GT will be getting rewind and the option of building your own tracks. I also heard they implemented weather effects but dropped them because they simply weren't fun.
That they sacrificed a feature on the altar of fun despite that it must have taken a lot of effort to implement and, at the same time, are humble enough to steal good ideas from other games I take as signs that GT5 will be brilliant.
I'm not getting a PS3 though.
Good by rwa2 · 2010-01-14 00:51 · Score: 1

I don't have any disposable income to throw at a PS3 for my Logitech G25 now anyway. Come back later when I have the time.
And yes, the PS2 I bought a year or two ago was just an accessory for the G25 too :P
1. Re:Good by gEvil+(beta) · 2010-01-14 04:20 · Score: 1
  
  I don't have any disposable income to throw at a PS3 for my Logitech G25 now anyway. Come back later when I have the time.
  
  And yes, the PS2 I bought a year or two ago was just an accessory for the G25 too :P
  
  After getting my G25, I feel like I'm in the same boat. It's all about what else I can accessorize with the wheel (games, mounts, chairs, etc).
  
  --
  This guy's the limit!
2. Re:Good by CronoCloud · 2010-01-14 21:52 · Score: 1
  
  The problem is, the last couple of GT's seem to be designed with the assumption that the player is using a wheel. I bet I could actually beat some of those "impossible" license tests with a wheel, that I simply can't do with the dual shock.
3. Re:Good by rwa2 · 2010-01-15 02:22 · Score: 1
  
  I think I actually made it through most of the GT4 license tests using the gamepad.
  However, I remember floundering for a long, long time at the last Sport license test (the full Nurburgring in that crappy Mercedes)... So yes, after getting the wheel and practicing it a few times more I finally passed that one :P
  It's fun watching the reference run, where they're obviously using a wheel and you can see the pro's exact control inputs. Well, that is to say, it's fun after struggling with the track a bit and watching how lame your control inputs are in comparison ^_^
Goddamnit... by Nabeel_co · 2010-01-14 01:38 · Score: 1

Well thats a f**king surprise...
Gran Turismo vs Forza by rocket97 · 2010-01-14 03:50 · Score: 1

When I play games on consoles I tend to lean towards racing and sports games and Gran Turismo was always one of my favorites. Then when the X-Box came out I switched to that for the Project Gotham Racing and then Forza was released so I switched to that because it just seemed like a better all around game. Anyway, I have not had a chance to play Gran Turismo for the past few releases because no one I know owns a Play Station for me to try it. I was wondering if anyone can give me an insight as to how the latest releases of GT compare to the latest releases of Forza. Preferably non-bias responses (although I know around here that will be hard to find.)

--
"The two most abundant elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity." -Harlan Ellison
Who cares? by Anonymous Coward · 2010-01-14 04:14 · Score: 0

As long as it gets released with the Top Gear test track as one of the playable tracks, I'll get it. I would really want to try to race the Stig or compete with a celebrity's time.
Does anyone know if they are still going to use the PSP as the side mirror?
Too long... by MaWeiTao · 2010-01-14 04:16 · Score: 1

GT5 Prologue featured the same stiff, unnatural physics endemic to the entire series. However, in early December a time trial demo of GT5 was released which impressed me with how the physics engine had been improved. The featured car, a Nissan 370Z in the game seemed to handle more accurately, from the replays the car shifted around more convincingly and I'm pretty sure they're even accounting for tire flex. Although the demo did suffer from the same problem I've found in the GT series overall where a car stock is somehow more difficult to drive than the heavily modified version. In this case, the car in stock form had a propensity for excessive oversteer, which seems to be an over-compensation for the excessive understeer of most cars in previous games in the series.
That demo almost convinced to stick with GT5. But at this point, the delays have gotten so ridiculous that I don't think I'll buy it when it's released on principle alone. It's crossed my mind to sell my PS3 with all the games I own and get an Xbox360 and Forza 3.
I had no experience with the Forza series until a few months ago when I played Forza 3. I was immediately impressed. Overall it provides a convincing driving experience with a more convincing sense of speed than the sterile GT series provides. Forza may exaggerate the sense of speed somewhat, but the fact is that you're sitting in front of a television, not inside an actual car where the sense of motion would be far more profound. Even a friend of mine who had been a fairly devoted fan of the GT series has admitted that the Forza series provides a more entertaining experience. So what does GT5 offer over Forza 3? Nicer graphics and a larger library of cars. But Sony has long reached a point of diminishing returns. I'd say, in fact they reached that point back with GT4. What is the point of offering 1000 cars when nearly every gamer out there will only drive perhaps 5% of that number?
I'm guessing that Sony is pretty confident that gamers will buy GT5 in huge numbers regardless of the long wait. What they've lost in reduced sales of the PS3 over the past few years is a lot harder to quantify.
1. Re:Too long... by Zeussy · 2010-01-14 11:46 · Score: 1
  
  Have you played Forza3 with the 360 wheel? As the wheel was designed in conjunction with Forza2 and always felt the integration is very tight and good. The amount of feel you receive through the force feedback is fantastic. You know exactly what the front of the car is doing.
  
  --
  Automation - The Car Company Tycoon Game
Xbox 360 by stewbacca · 2010-01-14 05:16 · Score: 1

I'll just go buy a 360 and get Forza. GT5 might be better than Forza, but at this rate, I'll never know. Being able to play something is better than waiting for something that might not even be as good as what I can play now.
Question / Recommendations by ukemike · 2010-01-14 05:34 · Score: 1

I waited until this spring to buy a PS2 since I only wanted it for GT4. I've since bought a few other games, mostly for my son (6 years old loves lego starwars). When I bought the refurbished console and GT4 I also shopped for and found a nice Logitech Driving Force Pro. With the control pad I was unable to complete the Nurburgring license test, but with the wheel I pulled it off. Anyway I would love to find other driving games that use the wheel on the ps2. There has to be one or two. A really arcadey game that my son would enjoy would be great, but from what I can tell most of the non GT driving games don't support the steering wheel. Any thoughts or recommendations?

--
-- QED
Colin McRae DiRT 2? by Velimir · 2010-01-14 09:04 · Score: 1

I've read all the comments and have seen a lot of people mention Forza and a few other racing games but no one has mentioned Colin McRae DiRT 2. I personally love rally games more than standard track racing games due to the skill in timing the corners and speed with slides. The inclusion of rally in GT 5 is definitely a main point of interest for myself and it should keep me busy for awhile until the WRC PS3 game comes out! So what's the general opinion on DiRT 2?
1. Re:Colin McRae DiRT 2? by RogueyWon · 2010-01-14 11:08 · Score: 2, Funny
  
  Dirt 2 is an almost-excellent game, ruined by the inclusion of what I am going to call "Tad". Tad does the voice-overs work for the game. He might even have an actual name, but I've willed myself to forget it. Tad personifies every negative stereotype of the idiot XTREME FRAT BOY XTREME SPORTS XTREME DUDE. I own Dirt 2 for the PS3 and have tried to play it a number of times. The graphics are excellent, the physics are good, if slightly arcadey, and the opponent AI is adequate. But every time I start to enjoy myself, Tad comes out with an even more statlingly hideous inanity than I had previously believed to be possible.
  I don't think it's actually possible to hate somebody more than I hate Tad. I have ideas about what I'd like to do to him. They involve a packet of cheap razor blades, a vat of acid, a three square mile stretch of frozen lake, an over-ripe aubergine, 7 ordinary red bricks and a chainsaw. But even these sadistic fantasies are brutally undercut by the knowledge that, as I inflicted agonies fit to tear the human soul to shreds upon him, Tad would probably yell "DUDE! You're IN THE ZONE... you're torturing me to death TO THE MAX!!!!" THIS IS XTREME TO THE MAX!!!!!!"
  You cannot turn Tad off. Believe me, I've tried.
  So yes, in summary, Dirt 2 had potential, but it also had... some issues.
Anonymous Coward by Anonymous Coward · 2010-01-15 22:41 · Score: 0

I guess that is that then.
I will not be expecting GT5 - so there is no need for any kind of expectation that they
can supply anything like it - if the problems SONY has are bugs - so be it.
I can not delay other things I might buy based on the way too long delays SONY has produced.
I will not buy anything from SONY apart from movies - that do not seem to be affected.
Also - any other playstation consoles that SONY might produce in future will not be on
my purchase list - EVER.