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PayPal Freezes the Assets of Wikileaks.org
matsh sends word that PayPal has frozen the assets of wikileaks.org. From their Web site: "Paypal has as of 23rd of January 2010 frozen WikiLeaks assets. This is the second time that this happens. The last time we struggled for more than half a year to resolve this issue. By working with the respected and recognized German foundation Wau Holland Stiftung we tried to avoid this from happening again — apparently without avail." The submitter adds: "Hopefully we can pressure PayPal to resolve this quickly, since this seems like a dangerous political decision."
I doubt this is political. Paypal is notorious for freezing accounts based on some internal drone's mistake or a some programmed tripwire. There are countless horror stories about this: http://www.paypalwarning.com/ http://www.paypalsucks.com/frozen-accounts.shtml When you outsource all your employees and pay them 5 cents an hour or whatever slave wage they pay foreign workers, you get what you pay for.
If it is political, then Paypal, as an organization is of unfathomable stupidity.
...is to empty the account every day. There is no sense in keeping any amount of money within their graps as they have shown time and time again they will freeze access without real cause or warning.
I was part of the collective to buy i-Opener machines from the failed Netpliance company. We used Paypal to collect fund from participants as that seemed to be the best way at the moment... How wrong we were... Paypal froze access to the account once it had accumulated enough money for them to be profitable to draw interest from. Of course they did NOT block payment into the account, just access to the funds. They had no real reason to freeze the account and ignored their own rules in both freezing and unblocking the account. They just sat on the money for a month or two, drawing interest from it. When they finally unblocked the account - again without giving any reason whatsoever - the deal with Netpliance had almost bounced.
Paypal is not a bank. Don't treat it as a bank. Don't entrust them with your money. Don't give them access to a debit account, only to a credit card.
Paypal, in short, can not be trusted. Use it at your own peril, only use credit cards so you can reverse the transaction. Never ever accumulate any real amount of money on a Paypal account.
--frank[at]unternet.org
The problems with PayPal are so infamous that no less than Fortune/CNN listed five alternatives
Banks can't take or freeze your money simply because they don't like what you do (which Paypal often does)
It's actually worse than that... they can take and freeze your money because they don't like what one of your business partners does...
They can screw you for just about anything, and have. http://www.paypalsucks.com/ Old news, but for some reason, no one knows.
Unfortunately Paypal is really the only option for a lot of smaller sites for whom a merchant account is too much hassle and expense.
Uh... No... http://www.screw-paypal.com/alternatives/alternatives.html Also, having your account frozen and cash pulled from you bank is a bit of a hassle too. http://www.paypalsucks.com/ Never trust PayPal.
Have you actually tried any of those? Do you do any sort of serious business online?
I've tried a few of those and they all have serious limitations.
From the very article you linked: "No one service can match PayPal alone -- but all of these services exceed PayPal in the customer relations department. With skillful use of two or more of these services, buying and selling on eBay without PayPal is NO problem."
With skillful use of two or more? The more difficult you make it for your customers to order from you the less money your going to make.
From the list you linked to:
Allpay.net -- Recommended for U.K. Only
BidPay.com -- Out Of Business 2 Years
CertaPay -- Recommended for CANADA Only
Checkfree -- NOT RECOMMENDED
HyperWALLET -- NOT RECOMMENDED
Moneybookers -- Recommended for ALL
Nochex -- Recommended for U.K. Residents and Certain Others
Ozpay.biz -- Out Of Business 3+ Years
Paymate -- Recommended for Australia & New Zealand
ProPay -- Recommended for U.S. Sellers
Xoom -- NOT RECOMMENDED
So out of that entire list there are only 2 that will let a US seller sell worldwide and are not listed as "Not Recommended". Moneybrokers and Propay.
I sell software on the internet and I've looked for alternatives to Paypal after having my account frozen.
Moneybrokers wanted some proof or license or something (I don't remember exactly this was years ago) to show that I had the right to sell my software. After a few less than helpful email exchanges I gave up on them.
Paypro, from their website, says you have to pay $60 a year to be able to accept all credit cards and you can only receive $3000 a month. This can be increased with a review of your credit and merchant history (if you have any). You can only accept Visa and $1000 a month with their regular plan.
I guarantee you if you get enough problem transactions any merchant is going to freeze your account and hold your funds for a few months to make sure they don't get screwed.
My horror story with Paypal starts many years ago. I had a personal account with them since something like the late 90s, and never once had an issue with them. That was before I went into business for myself, and converted the account over to a business account around the year 2000. What a mistake.
Now, let me just state the following:
- We sold books, novels, and prints.
- We sold works that were NOT adult.
- We sold works that we clearly had the copyright on.
- We were an independant publisher.
I learned oneday that the account had been closed due to a violation of the Acceptable Use Policy. Well, we were in the business of self publishing, things like science fiction novels and fantasy books. We sold online through our own website and through Amazon.com. I contacted Paypal and got a nice lady on the phone who went over our online web site with me on the phone and could not find what would have been a violation. So the account was re-activated...
Oh, then a few months later same thing. Account closed. This time with this message...
In accordance with PayPal's User Agreement and Acceptable Use Policy, we have closed your account. Your funds may be held for 180 days from the date of your last transaction. After 180 days, you will be able to access your funds by requesting an online bank transfer or, if applicable, a check from PayPal. Please update your address or bank information as we cannot be held responsible for checks issued to an incorrect address. We do ask that you please remove reference(s) to PayPal from your site.
I tried for over a month to get the account back in good standing, but was constantly told that the decision was final and there was nothing I could do. We sold everything on our main website through Amazon.com also (who never had any issue with the books we printed), and they also accepted Paypal as a payment method. Still to this day I have not been told a reason, nor given any information on why this action was taken. We simply gave up on Paypal and converted the site over to a real merchant account.
3 years ago I sold the company and the assets to another publishing firm. I started a new enterprise under a new LLC and opened a Paypal account again. No problems, no issues. Oh, I must have been an idiot to think Paypal was not going to do it to me again...
Well, my new account is now closed. It seems that Paypal has not blocked the company from using the account, but they did blacklist me. As soon as we went in to convert the account over to a business account I entered my SSN and wham! Account closed due to the original violation from over 3 years ago.
Now, I was under the assumption in the United Stated that you could not blacklist a person from your business unless there was a dam good legal reason. And why won't they tell me what in the world I did to violate their user agreement? Its like being tried, convicted, and sentenced without as much as a ray of hope to prove your not guilty.
I had a service rep fom Paypal (a manager) go over our new website (we sell clothing) and could not find a single thing that could possible violate any policies from Paypal, nor could he find any reason for this decision. But it is final, and over with.
To make a long story short, I am now blacklisted from ever using Paypal again. No reason, no explanation, no way of proving that I am not guilty, and no way to do anything about it. It has been, to this day, the most horrible experience I have ever gone through. I kept getting the impression from Paypal that I was some sort of pornographer. I feel ashamed and tarnished by this decision, and will have to deal with it for the rest of my life.
I personally recommend to anyone who asks me to stay away from Paypal. NEVER use this company, as you have NO protection under law from any harm they cause you or your company.
Get a real merchant account. With a merchant account you deal directly with the credit card companies and
The problem is that PayPal walks like a bank, talks like a bank and acts like a bank, but has so far been able to avoid being classified (and therefore regulated) as a bank. I'm not big on regulation, and my solution was to simply not use them anymore, but the FTC should crawl up PayPal's ass with a microscope. I'm pretty sure that's their Porsche in the parking lot...
I still cannot find the droids I am looking for...
> "they feel like it"
Most of it is automated. They are running risk rules on transactions and if one hits a score, the account is frozen - they call it "limited".
Can be anything - they sure won't publish their algorithms.
And:
Prohibited Activities
You may not use the PayPal service for activities that:
violate any law, statute, ORDINANCE or REGULATION
(emphasis mine)
Here's their response to my question:
SMP Bank has filed all the proper papers and provides the appearance of a bank. But, given that two of the bank council members are kleptocrats, whether or not SMP Bank is a bank is not the question. Are they any more trustworthy than Paypal?
Every mans' island needs an ocean; choose your ocean carefully.
We'll find out whether people care or not when there's an alternative.
I formerly subscribed to Slashdot but I don't anymore because they now only accept Paypal. When they go back to accepting credit cards, I'll subscribe again. There have been other instances where I've avoided doing business with someone because it meant using Paypal. Don't trust them. Likely never will. It seems statistically unlikely that I'm the only one with this attitude toward them.
Aide-toi, le Ciel t'aidera - Jeanne D'Arc.
You're not.
There are a bunch of places that have missed out on my money because they only took PayPal. Free online games which rely on donations, websites like slashdot, places that do micropayments, charities, businesses, etc.
I will NOT do business with PayPal. Period. I don't care what it's for, or how much it may potentially benefit me. I don't even care if it's just paying by credit card through them.
PayPal is not a bank, is not accredited, can't be trusted, and will NEVER EVER touch any of my money or other financial assets. Should they decide to do ANYTHING, my only recompense is to try to sue a corporation with deep pockets.
When it comes to my money, that's a risk I flatly refuse to take.
Velociraptor = Distiraptor / Timeraptor