The Future of Portable Linux Distros

Diversity by clarkn0va · 2010-01-26 04:10 · Score: 5, Insightful

Long live diversity. Arguably, one of MS's greatest weaknesses right now is its lack of diversity (ARM et al). The fact that they have conceded to continue selling xp on netbooks is the major reason they haven't been shut out of the growing netbook segment entirely.

Linux, meanwhile, is in every growing market, and although I may run only 2 or three distros personally, these benefit from the work done in dozens of other distros. The fears of a Linux monoculture are misinformed FUD, as long as Red Hat competes with Ubuntu competes with Suse, and so on.

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I am literally 3000 tokens away from the chaotic crossbow --Stephen

Re:Diversity by Anonymous Coward · 2010-01-26 04:16 · Score: 1, Interesting

I hate diversity.
For one, the market is fragmented. To work steadily, you have to be up on a bunch of technologies because if you stick to one, then there's much less work and in some cases it drops off as it becomes established. As more phones come on the market, the iPhone work is starting to drop off.
Two, you have to have a bunch of different development tools and development environments. They also have to be kept up with.
the actual devices for testing. I can only afford so many devices to test and develop for. Simulators? Pffft! They're OK for development and maybe some unit testing, but functional testing? Forget it.
But that's life and I gotta deal.
Re:Diversity by clarkn0va · 2010-01-26 04:28 · Score: 1

Admittedly, I speak primarily from a consumer's perspective. My expectation, however unlikely for an independent developer such as yourself, is that if an application proves valuable on one platform, some enterprising individual or company will pick that up and port it to another platform. The onus is not on you. Obviously this ideal poses some problems for small entities working on closed projects, but it serves the consumer very well, which is why closed models, such as those currently embraced by MS and the whole **AA cartel are doomed to give way when their proponents finally run out of steam and adapt or fade into the background.
I won't deny anybody's right to make a living at development, but market forces being what they are, the writing is on the wall, and the successful developers of the future will not be solo pilots, but part of a movement. The open development takes away somewhat from the developer-as-entrepreneur ideal, but the tradeoff, for the state of the art as a whole, is a worthy one.

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I am literally 3000 tokens away from the chaotic crossbow --Stephen
Re:Diversity by Martin+P.+Hellwig · 2010-01-26 04:29 · Score: 1

The fears of a Linux monoculture are misinformed FUD, as long as Red Hat competes with Ubuntu competes with Suse, and so on.
You do know that officially 'linux' only refers to the kernel, which is actually a monoculture, though more by choice than anything else.
But then again, Microsoft is a monoculture by choice too.

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If consumed, best digested with added seasoning to own preference.
Re:Diversity by clarkn0va · 2010-01-26 04:35 · Score: 4, Insightful

My assertion holds true for Linux proper. Every major distro (heck, even countless end-users) makes its own customizations to the kernel, and many of these are adopted upstream. What Ubuntu has done for the desktop, for example, Red Hat has done for the kernel. And so forth. Even collaboration between legions of MS kernel developers can't equal this effect, because they're all mandated by the same corporate directors. Linux distros, by contrast each have their own nuanced goals and methods, hence true diversity.

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I am literally 3000 tokens away from the chaotic crossbow --Stephen
Re:Diversity by Rogerborg · 2010-01-26 04:50 · Score: 4, Funny

You know that whenever you say "diversity", a tech support fairy dies, right?

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If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
Re:Diversity by SnarfQuest · 2010-01-26 05:02 · Score: 1

Diversity may be fine, but I'd prefer it if they limited it to just a few variants for the netbooks.
Id like to be able to learn how one netbook works, and then be able to use any of the others. If there are to many versions, this isn't likely to be the case. It would be like trying to find a specific configuration screen in the different versions of Windows. you know where it is under XP, but they've moved it in Vista, and moved it again in 7, and it may or may not exist in 98. I'd prefer niot to follow that path in the Linux world. All the Linux versions should try to do as much as possible in the same way no matter which netbook you buy.

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Who would win this election: Andrew Weiner vs Andrew Weiner's weiner.
Re:Diversity by SQLGuru · 2010-01-26 06:36 · Score: 1

A big problem with Linux mainstream adoption. Your Linux is not my Linux is not his Linux. Normal users don't want an overabundance of choice. They like the fact that Windows dictates a lot of what they experience. Moving from one Windows box to another is relatively invisible. For Linux, however, everything can change.
Re:Diversity by clarkn0va · 2010-01-26 07:20 · Score: 1

It's not without its drawbacks, but overall it's a win. Tech-types will continue to play with/create distros and forks of distros, while those with more mainstream tastes will stick to the big-name distros like Fedora and Ubuntu that happen to have bigger backing, and therefore tend to be better at distilling all this diversity down to a positive, consistent and familiar user experience.

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I am literally 3000 tokens away from the chaotic crossbow --Stephen
Re:Diversity by flimflammer · 2010-01-26 08:58 · Score: 1

I don't know why parent was modded troll.
Honestly, Windows 7 Starter works fine on Netbooks. Having personally played with one, I did not feel that it was any more sluggish than using XP on a Netbook. The only thing I have beef with are a few limitation on Win7 starter.
Re:Diversity by clarkn0va · 2010-01-27 03:36 · Score: 1

You're talking about the present state, a snapshot. I'm talking about a model that is gaining traction. As Coward pointed out, some devices already come with the penguin. Sure, not many yet, but I won't die if it doesn't happen by Friday.

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I am literally 3000 tokens away from the chaotic crossbow --Stephen

Missing ones by gmuslera · 2010-01-26 04:11 · Score: 5, Interesting

If well aren't so focused on netbooks, Maemo should be included. Nokia N900 looks more like a subnotebook than a cellphone.

Some tiny, but damn fast linux mini-distros like i.e. SliTaz could be interesting to put on the mix.

Re:Missing ones by R_Dorothy · 2010-01-26 04:43 · Score: 4, Informative

Maemo and the N900 are on page four of TFA.

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Stupid flounders!
Re:Missing ones by Nick+Novitski · 2010-01-26 06:11 · Score: 1

I'd also like to nominate A(dot)ngstrom and the Pandora, the most powerful portable gaming system (or, the most game-friendly portable full-featured computer) yet created. It should be out Real Soon Now. I'd say "Order yours today!" but I want them all to myself.
Re:Missing ones by 7-Vodka · 2010-01-26 11:36 · Score: 1

is puppylinux on there?

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Liberty.

Cloud Computing needs to go. by Anonymous Coward · 2010-01-26 04:12 · Score: 5, Interesting

The biggest hindrance so far has been Cloud Computing. Device manufacturers, rather than focusing on making their portables more powerful and useful on their own, have been banking on Cloud Computing to make their devices usable by offloading any strenuous processing.

As we've seen so far, Cloud Computing is a failure in virtually all cases, especially when semi-connected portable devices are involved. The service is spotty, connectivity proves to be a major issue, and the services implemented so far have been far, far, far inferior to more traditional approaches.

What people want is basically their desktop system, with the ability to run arbitrary applications and store the data locally, but compacted down into a portable device that can be used on the go. They don't want to host their data on some third-party servers, they don't want to use web-based applications, and they don't want to have their application selection limited by a single vendor or network operator.

Re:Cloud Computing needs to go. by Abcd1234 · 2010-01-26 04:51 · Score: 2, Insightful

As we've seen so far, Cloud Computing is a failure in virtually all cases
It has, has it! Huh... funny, Twitter, Facebook, Gmail, YouTube, and god knows how many other services would tend to disagree with you.
But you're right, web-based applications are a failure "in virtually all cases".
Re:Cloud Computing needs to go. by thenextstevejobs · 2010-01-26 04:54 · Score: 3, Insightful

sometimes there are just new words for old things.

i don't think many of us are upset about having our email 'in the cloud' for example, but what we like is being able to sync it to our phones and computers. but this universally accepted and successful(?) 'cloud' model is near universal.

i'd say the same about my other documents. i don't mind a 'repository' of my music, documents, etc., which I access over the net, but I do want to have local copies.

sometimes it seems to me like internet companies are trying to stockpile data so that they "can't" go away, get propped up by governments, necessity of access to information. doesn't really seem healthy.

makes me think of highly encrypted shared clouds done on a bittorrent/TOR like model, decentralize the thing...

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Long live the BSD license
Re:Cloud Computing needs to go. by Neil+Hodges · 2010-01-26 05:00 · Score: 1

Cloud computing will make more sense as Internet access improves further. That means when the broadband providers and mobile phone services stop dragging their feet.
Re:Cloud Computing needs to go. by tweak13 · 2010-01-26 05:12 · Score: 1

With the possible exception of Gmail, I wouldn't call any of those applications. They're just websites.
Re:Cloud Computing needs to go. by Abcd1234 · 2010-01-26 05:18 · Score: 1

Funny, all the people sending twitter messages from their phones (Twitter being nothing more than broadcast instant messaging, which I'd call an "application") and Facebook status updates would probably tend to disagree. The dividing line between a simple website and an "application" is increasingly blurry these days.
'course, I could list others if you want to get picky. Do Google Maps count (complete with augmented reality features) or Docs count? What about Google Reader? (You'll notice a trend, here... Google is one of the most successful (or, apparently, unsuccessful) purveyors of web-based applications).
Re:Cloud Computing needs to go. by diggum · 2010-01-26 05:21 · Score: 1

I disagree somewhat. we don't like "syncing." we tolerate syncing because it's the only real solution right now for having our data at our fingertips on any device anywhere. but what we WANT is all of that to just work. the cloud is a fine solution if it secure, reliable, and accessible. it certainly makes sense to have backups of your data, stored locally somewhere safe. but does anyone really want their data duplicated on every device? isn't this wasteful? i acknowledge this is dreamy, pie in the sky wishes, though. still, i can't get my head out of the clouds. sincerely, diggum
Re:Cloud Computing needs to go. by jellomizer · 2010-01-26 05:29 · Score: 4, Insightful

As we've seen so far, Cloud Computing is a failure in virtually all cases
Details I need details... That is just a wild accusation.
I have seen Cloud Computing succeeding far more then it fails. As well it has opened up the gates so people on different environments can run the same application.
People don't care if it is their desktop system. They want to run what they want and when... They really don't care if it on a server or on their computer. They want the data they are looking for, and the program to run quick enough.
Why does cloud computing limit people to a single vender or network operator? I can use Bing Maps and Gmail...
Oddly enough your data is safer in the cloud then in most peoples hands. Sure you can get the geeky with their own raid and offsite backups... However that isn't the real case. The cloud allows you to put your data in a place where it will have some real infrastructure behind it. And not just one drop away from being lost, and easily stolen.
Even for me the Cloud has saved my butt more then once, The times the Cloud has failed on me was a minor inconvenience...
Just because RMS makes a Rant about the Evil cloud. It doesn't make him right, He just likes to rant about stuff and be overall negitive about anything he didn't think of himself.

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If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
Re:Cloud Computing needs to go. by farble1670 · 2010-01-26 05:35 · Score: 3, Insightful

"They don't want to host their data on some third-party servers,"
yes, the average person *loves* to manage their own backups.
i have an android phone. my pictures, music, calendar, mail, videos, and contacts are all in the cloud. it all works quite well for me.
it's not as simple as connected or not. intelligent client apps cache data locally and sync it when there's a connection.
Re:Cloud Computing needs to go. by Abcd1234 · 2010-01-26 06:53 · Score: 1

Broadband access will never get faster. Broadband providers will never speed up broadband speeds unless the gobernment forces them to do so.
That's not necessarily true. Verizon's FIOS service wasn't government mandated. Heck, my provider, Shaw, has regularly upgraded their backhaul network over the last few years, and as such, my available bandwidth has increased fairly consistently.
All you really need is a bit of competition, and even just two companies (a telco and a cable operator) are enough to create a competitive environment such that available bandwidth will increase over time. Roll in things like 4G/WiMax, and I think, over the next 5-10 years, you'll see traditional operators all but forced to upgrade their networks in order to keep up.
Re:Cloud Computing needs to go. by Capt.DrumkenBum · 2010-01-26 07:33 · Score: 1

That is funny, I would call them time wasters. Including gmail. I hate webmail!

Get off my lawn!

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If I were God, wouldn't I protect my churches from acts of me?
Re:Cloud Computing needs to go. by SomeKDEUser · 2010-01-26 09:36 · Score: 1

Be happy !
Once again opensource will save the day be providing the infrastructure for doing the right thing. Doing it well, Doing it for the user.
http://dot.kde.org/2010/01/24/kde-gears-free-cloud
It will work because it is essentially there to help, and not generate a revenue stream, which implies preying on your data, on your privacy, or your goodwill.
For the lazy, it is the KDE project for cloud computing. A platform for distribution, backup and revisionning of data and apps. Encrypted. Local as well as distant. Robust. And you get to control both client and server.
Re:Cloud Computing needs to go. by jellomizer · 2010-01-26 09:49 · Score: 1

So does your local Computer.
Lets be realistic here. Problems happen, we don't live in a perfect world. I have actually seen more Linux and OS X Crashes then windows crashes in the past 10 years. (And I have seen my fair share of windows crashes)
I have seen computers with an uptime in years however one long power outage knocks it off. Or a backup that failed because a Tape set went bad and we didn't find out until a week too late. Is cloud computing perfect and unbreakable... No. It is probably better then your IT infrastructure Yes, unless you have a lot of money and resources put into keeping your infrastructure going.

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If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
Re:Cloud Computing needs to go. by DragonWriter · 2010-01-26 10:28 · Score: 1

The biggest hindrance so far has been Cloud Computing. Device manufacturers, rather than focusing on making their portables more powerful and useful on their own, have been banking on Cloud Computing to make their devices usable by offloading any strenuous processing.
This is quite obviously false; device makers continue to make laptops and other portable devices where power is a central focus, or at least one of several key focusses along with price and battery life. That's why there are notebooks using Core-series processors, and, on the lower end of the scale, netbooks using ION and the more powerful dual-core processors in the Atom line.
Device makers are also providing less-expensive, less-powerful portable devices that focus on non-power-user usage patterns that involve lots of web-browsing and light document editing, which don't require a lot of horsepower.

What people want is basically their desktop system, with the ability to run arbitrary applications and store the data locally, but compacted down into a portable device that can be used on the go. They don't want to host their data on some third-party servers, they don't want to use web-based applications, and they don't want to have their application selection limited by a single vendor or network operator.
I would suggest that not everyone wants what you think "people want", and that the market, both in terms of what gets made and what gets sold, reflect that diversity in interests.
Re:Cloud Computing needs to go. by exomondo · 2010-01-26 11:38 · Score: 1

+1, and all these companies offering 'cloud computing services' are just offering server rental. Cloud computing is just an umbrella buzzword for things we've had since the dawn of the internet, albeit many of them have been through evolutionary changes.
Re:Cloud Computing needs to go. by oztiks · 2010-01-26 11:44 · Score: 1

Yes and No (re desktop). The corporate world is really buzzing with the word cloud. Almost every big brand has something out there and are continuing to develop rapidly to keep it going.
People want cheap, then they get upset that the Manufacturer finds a cheaper method of production? too bad because the Manufacturer knows that even though there are draw backs ... Cheaper always wins the fight in the eyes of the masses.
Its too soon for Cloud, but its hardly a failure.
Re:Cloud Computing needs to go. by oztiks · 2010-01-26 11:45 · Score: 1

The problem is what could be vs what is.
Cloud computing would be great in theory if all PCs in the world could be setup so you simply login anywhere anytime and there is your personal desktop, files, apps, etc.
The problem being, our economical growth of the internet. The why today's internet is designed stops this from being a reality for at least another 10 years.
Large companies, Google, Microsoft, etc all adopt the reality that one day it can be a possible but unless we are all running super fast (IP6 of course) networks it is just a mere pipe dream.
As for data and the localization of data, I tend to agree with you on this but I also see the counter to this argument. The General Population hates internet security, virus' etc and the Cloud concept could solve a lot of today's traditional security problems, yet simply open up the avenue of new concepts as it goes (Google and China's fiasco last week is an example of this). Its not we need to merely securify our PC's but now companies are left wondering ... "is my website secure as well??"
Security brands will change their product to cater too it but for now its a great selling point. As people purchase Macs because of the security reputation behind them, people will chose Cloud for the same reason, PCI is a part of this marketing powerhouse that out for this at the moment and its more akin to paying protection money to the Mafia then it is an actual security methodology (I have my own rants for that for another time).
For today, measured Cloud computing works, NetSuite is a perfect example of this and a company which has no fear of failing tomorrow. I think Microsoft's abuse of the word "Cloud" computing is exactly whats wrong with Cloud today. The term is being used to sell everything they do. "Cloud this and cloud that". In reality its exactly what you say a "new words for old things".
Re:Cloud Computing needs to go. by Abcd1234 · 2010-01-26 12:54 · Score: 1

Then complain to the OP. If your definition of "cloud computing" is the "correct" one, then it has precisely zero (0) to do with netbooks, correct?
Re:Cloud Computing needs to go. by martin-boundary · 2010-01-26 14:49 · Score: 1

The cloud allows you to put your data in a place where it will have some real infrastructure behind it. And not just one drop away from being lost, and easily stolen.

Is your data really stolen if you don't know somebody stole it from you? Being in the cloud means you cannot know what happens to your data.
If you keep your data yourself and it is stolen from you, then you know it is stolen and you can decide to do something about it. Ditto if it is lost.
Re:Cloud Computing needs to go. by jellomizer · 2010-01-26 15:05 · Score: 1

You are making the assumption that your data is safe on your computer.
A delayed patch. Or a file server just sitting there when you forgot to turn back on the firewall after doing some tests. Or just a flaw in your web public web server or a back door that you think only you know about. Someone gets in downloads some stuff cleans or wipes out the data. Do you know you data has been stolen.
Data is only valuable when you use it. If you are going to be perfectly safe were no one can steal it you probably are making it hard or impossible for the data to be used. If someone actually physically steals your data and the equiptment that it was in yes you know it is has been stolen however what is worse you don't have it yourself.
Also there is nothing to say you can't or shouldn't backup from the cloud. Or get your data out. I don't know where that rumer came from... Probably from people who are not willing to make good contracts.

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If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
Re:Cloud Computing needs to go. by martin-boundary · 2010-01-26 16:43 · Score: 1

Let's agree that expertise is needed to handle data safely/securely/etc. This expertise can be in the cloud (ie it belongs to the engineers who build and maintain the servers etc) or it can be on your computer (ie it resides in you and/or in the software you run).
I don't think you've convincingly explained why this expertise should (ie preferably) reside in the cloud rather than in a personal computer. Surely, it is just as difficult to build a high quality piece of software that runs in the cloud as it is to build a high quality piece of software that keeps its data locally, although the details will be different. If you're suggesting backing up from the cloud, there's also the idea of backing up *to* the cloud (in a dumb way ie as an encrypted binary blob on a file server).
Re:Cloud Computing needs to go. by jellomizer · 2010-01-27 02:50 · Score: 1

Well it is a case your data is better of on your own system in an ideal world... But we don't live in one.
Chances are your IT will not get the funding it deserves. You will be put on projects that distract you from maintaining a server. If you have a good cloud company their job is to make sure their systems are running have over redundant systems... All this stuff if you gave you bill to your boss he will tell you to back up on USB drives.
Backing up from the cloud or to the cloud is a good idea in general.
But most companies do not have the infrastructure the cloud has and the cloud comany can probably keep it running for cheaper.
If you are a small company you may have 1 administrator if you are good. But a Mid Sized Cloud company may have 20. If they are vacations or sick days there is still people doing coverage...
If you work for a company that has a large IT then you may need a cloud and you are better off.
A Cloud isn't the perfect solution. But it is good for a large subset of people. You should recognize that and embrace it, as it is a technology that is used to fix the right problem for the right solution.

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If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.

Re:crazy moon man language by clarkn0va · 2010-01-26 04:18 · Score: 2, Informative

UNR--Ubuntu Netbook Remix. This is straight from the summary, bless your illiterate soul.
XP--Nobody actually knows what this stands for, but you can call it Windows 5.1 if that makes you feel better.
OS--Operating System.

You're welcome.

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I am literally 3000 tokens away from the chaotic crossbow --Stephen

Do we really need these by malignant_minded · 2010-01-26 04:25 · Score: 1

From what I have seen the NBR only does some hotkey mappings, fullscreen force, and that annoying (my opinion of course) navigation thingy to get to your applications. On my eeepc 1000H I prefered to just install the full version and fix the few things wrong. Couldn't the install just run like a dmidecode and then say hey your running a netbook model blah blah blah do you want the hotkey mappings?

Re:Do we really need these by MonsterTrimble · 2010-01-26 05:39 · Score: 1

So you're complaining that UNR, Moblin & all exist and that you have to choose which distro to install?

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I call it 'The Aristocrats'
Re:Do we really need these by malignant_minded · 2010-01-26 06:10 · Score: 2, Insightful

So you're complaining that UNR, Moblin & all exist and that you have to choose which distro to install?
ahh no that isn't at all what i said. what i mean is, is there really any difference between UNR and Ubuntu besides like one or two packages and a hotkey mapping. Couldn't that just be included as a prompt after the nic works to install the NBR package and the hotkey mappings based on your model that can be found using dmidecode. If i change a splash screen and add a game should i really call it another name than the distro it is? Is there really that much change in the NBR is what I am getting at?
Re:Do we really need these by DragonWriter · 2010-01-26 10:45 · Score: 1

ahh no that isn't at all what i said. what i mean is, is there really any difference between UNR and Ubuntu besides like one or two packages and a hotkey mapping. Couldn't that just be included as a prompt after the nic works to install the NBR package and the hotkey mappings based on your model that can be found using dmidecode. If i change a splash screen and add a game should i really call it another name than the distro it is? Is there really that much change in the NBR is what I am getting at?
A non-technical end user will often be happier with a maximally streamlined configuration process, and I think that's the main target of NBR. A technical user can just use base Ubuntu and customize it to their tastes.
Re:Do we really need these by Rennt · 2010-01-26 15:48 · Score: 1

NBR has less in common with Ubuntu then say, Ubuntu and Xubuntu. An engineer might say "well lets have do base install and let the user choose the environment after that" but that is EXACTLY what Canonical are trying to avoid.

Re:that's why by Chris+Mattern · 2010-01-26 04:45 · Score: 1

And that's why I bought a Saturn.

So how are you enjoying Virtua Fighter?

Re:crazy moon man language by Kjella · 2010-01-26 04:55 · Score: 3, Informative

XP--Nobody actually knows what this stands for, but you can call it Windows 5.1 if that makes you feel better.

Straight from the horse's mouth found via Wikipedia:
The XP name is short for "experience," symbolizing the rich and extended user experiences Windows and Office can offer by embracing Web services that span a broad range of devices.

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Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings

Re:crazy moon man language by nine-times · 2010-01-26 04:57 · Score: 1

XP= probably picked by marking people at least partially because "X" has some subconscious appeal that makes things seem cool (probably also why Mac OS has stayed at version 10 and has been labelled OS X for 10 years now). However, according to old Microsoft marketing material, it was supposed to come from the word "eXPerience". I don't know what sense we were supposed to make of the product being called "Windows eXPerience", but that was the name that Windows v.5.1 was marketed under.

Re:crazy moon man language by Anonymous Coward · 2010-01-26 04:58 · Score: 5, Funny

I always associated it with the emoticon "XP." Thus, Windows XP means they're making fun of you for using it.

The dream lives on by westlake · 2010-01-26 05:00 · Score: 3, Insightful

As Windows XP is phased out and the cost of bundling Windows 7 rises, manufacturers will be looking for a cheap and easily maintainable netbook OS

Walmart.com currently stocks 125 Win 7 laptops. Fifty Win 7 desktops.*

The retailer is looking for sales.

Which Windows and Win 7 have proven they can deliver. Top Operating System Share Trend

This isn't rocket science.

The buyer sees the Win 7 Atom netbook on sale with a 10' screen and a 250 GB hard drive.

What to fill it with?

He has tons of Windows software at home which will load and run without a problem.

Software he knows.

Software he uses. Software he likes.
_____

* But only two netbooks in stores. That's a fast fade-out even by Walmart standards.

Re:The dream lives on by Anonymous Coward · 2010-01-26 05:38 · Score: 2, Funny

That's quite a netbook to have a 10-foot screen. Most of the netbooks I've seen top out at about 11".
Re:The dream lives on by LWATCDR · 2010-01-26 05:39 · Score: 2, Insightful

What software?
The only software that I buy these days is stuff that will not run on a netbook at all.
Games like FSX and TurboCAD.
Most home users tend to use web stuff, Quicken, maybe games, maybe Office but more and more people I know are going to OpenOffice because it is free.
I am not saying that there isn't a market for Windows 7 netbooks but I think you are missing just how much software developers would love a new platform.
Let's say that we start to see ARM+Linux netbooks start to take off. Adobe will offer an inexpensive update to Phototshop Elements for those people and make some money.
Quicken will offer a new version of QuickBooks for those people.
I think the iPhone, Palm Pre, and Android have shown users that they don't have to use windows and their old software anymore. Going to a new platform can give them new tools. It has show developers that they can charge very little for a program but make good money.
Add in that an ARM+Linux netbook could cost less than a Windows machine and run longer and do more and you may have enough motivation to get people to change.
The problem is that everybody seems to be stuck thinking that Computer==Windows. Maybe smartbooks or tablets well be different enough that they will not make that leap.
A big help would be an app store. Hey since they don't have optical drives it will be the way that most people will put software on them.

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See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
Re:The dream lives on by langelgjm · 2010-01-26 05:41 · Score: 4, Insightful

He has tons of Windows software at home which will load and run without a problem. Software he knows. Software he uses. Software he likes.
What Windows-only software lacks a reasonable open-source or Linux equivalent and would also be useful on a netbook?
People seem to use netbooks to... browse the web. Maybe listen to music. Work on documents. I suppose you could argue Microsoft Office, etc. I've seen someone using Word 2007 on a netbook. It was pathetic - the ribbon takes up way too much screen real estate on a netbook. Also, I guess people are pirating Office to run on their netbooks - who in their right mind is going to spend $250 to $300 on the netbook, then turn around and throw down another $100 to $300 for Office? I guess you can get it pre-installed for less.
Games, maybe. But any serious game isn't going to fun on a netbook, and probably won't run well anyway.
Actually the average netbook buyer can't load their "home" software onto their netbook, because their netbook doesn't have a CD drive. They have to download it, which either means pirating Windows apps or downloading free Windows apps. And free Windows apps likely have a free Linux equivalent that is easily downloadable (or better yet installable via a package manager).
I just wish there were some decent ARM offerings on the market - beating the Intel Atoms on battery life and price. Anyway, my point is that I really doubt the average netbook user has a bunch of Windows-only apps that are forcing them to remain with Win 7. I've installed two Win 7 machines so far, and the screen dimming every 30 seconds is enough to keep it away from my desk for good.

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"Anyone who [rips a CD] is probably engaging in copyright infringement." - David O. Carson
Re:The dream lives on by westlake · 2010-01-26 06:55 · Score: 1, Insightful

I guess people are pirating Office to run on their netbooks - who in their right mind is going to spend $250 to $300 on the netbook, then turn around and throw down another $100 to $300 for Office?
The geek quotes list for Office and forgets every other legitimate distribution channel known to man.
The volume license agreement that supports Microsoft's Home User program. The $60 Ultimate Steal for anyone with student ID. Office Home sold retail boxed with a three seat license.
What Windows-only software lacks a reasonable open-source or Linux equivalent and would also be useful on a netbook?
iTunes. Games.
H.264 hardware-accelerated video.
D2D, Gog.com and Steam all have a deep back list of games ready for play on the XP and Win 7 netbook.
The Windows buyer can chose from the best of both worlds -
everything in proprietary and closed source, everything in free and open source.
Re:The dream lives on by langelgjm · 2010-01-26 07:24 · Score: 2, Informative

The geek quotes list for Office and forgets every other legitimate distribution channel known to man.
Not really, I mentioned you can get it pre-installed. I've been a beneficiary of MSDN-AA inter alia in the past, too. But your point was this hypothetical user has a bunch of software at home they can just load up on their netbook, not that they have to go out and buy again.
Chances are if they have Word on their home desktop or other laptop, it's an OEM copy that came will their Dell or whatever. Not easy to load on the netbook, and the licensing is questionable. Besides, netbooks are supposed to be cheap. What's the point of spending $250 then spending another 20% of that to repurchase Windows programs you already own? I don't think people actually do this.

iTunes. Games.
If you use iTunes for play music, there are plenty of alternatives. There are also plenty of alternatives that allow for iPod syncing with the majority of iPods in the wild. If you have an iPhone or Touch, maybe you're right, I don't know what the status of those is. Of course if you aleady have one, it's probably already synced to your primary machine, in which case it's not an issue.
I mentioned games, and pointed out that any serious Windows-only game probably wouldn't be fun to play on a netbook. Any FPS on a 10" screen would suck. Do people really purchase netbooks to carry around and play old games available on Steam? Seems unlikely. I see them playing Flash games.

H.264 hardware-accelerated video.
You're probably right, for now - though I don't know how many current Atom-based netbooks actually have this. Also, pretty much every recent ARM-based prototype sports this. Also, anyone know if Microsoft is lifting the hardware limits for Netbooks running Win 7? I believe for the OEM XP license most netbooks came with, manufacturers were limited to 1 GB RAM among other things. I wonder if a Win 7 OEM license for a machine with a decent graphics chip is more expensive to the manufacturer...

--
"Anyone who [rips a CD] is probably engaging in copyright infringement." - David O. Carson
Re:The dream lives on by AaronLawrence · 2010-01-26 09:58 · Score: 1

If you use iTunes for play music, there are plenty of alternatives.
Not if you want to use the iTunes store, and know that it will seamlessly work with all the variations of iPods, and get the benefits of being in the mainstream.

If you have an iPhone or Touch, maybe you're right, I don't know what the status of those is.
Which is millions of users, hardly something insignificant to ignore.

Of course if you aleady have one, it's probably already synced to your primary machine, in which case it's not an issue.
What primary machine?

Any FPS on a 10" screen would suck.
Of course. Nobody would want to do that. Instead, they would use their game console for that.

Do people really purchase netbooks to carry around and play old games available on Steam? Seems unlikely. I see them playing Flash games.
Bingo. The vast majority of games are console games, and casual games of various lightweight flavours, most commonly flash games on Facebook, or on the general web, or on mobile phones. PC FPS and "old games available on Steam" are niches. So excluding them is hardly a problem.
I do use an XP Netbook, and I do find that I use less software on it than I did on my old desktop; e.g. webmail. But I still use my Windows software, some that I had already, such as iTunes, graphics programs, Nokia PC Suite, etc. So being Windows is still a significant benefit.

--
For every expert, there is an equal and opposite expert. - Arthur C. Clarke
Re:The dream lives on by langelgjm · 2010-01-26 10:25 · Score: 1

What primary machine?
How likely is it someone already owns an iPhone or (better yet) iPod Touch, but does not own a computer to which it is synced, and then goes and buys a netbook and not only intends to use that netbook as their primary machine, but intends to sync their iPhone/iPod Touch to it?
That strikes me as farfetched. If you already have an iPhone or iPod Touch and you are looking to buy a netbook, I'd wager you already have another desktop or laptop with iTunes and your iPhone is synced and backed up with it.
We can sit here and dream up all sorts of scenarios where free/open-source software won't cut it. But the point is, how many of these are likely to be experienced by the average user? Netbooks aren't designed to be a person's primary computer.

--
"Anyone who [rips a CD] is probably engaging in copyright infringement." - David O. Carson
Re:The dream lives on by DragonWriter · 2010-01-26 10:37 · Score: 1

Chances are if they have Word on their home desktop or other laptop, it's an OEM copy that came will their Dell or whatever. Not easy to load on the netbook, and the licensing is questionable.

If, like many desktops, it came with a time-limited Office Home and Student demo, which most Windows (XP Home and 7 Starter and Home Premium) netbooks also come with, and they spent the money once to buy a license for Home and Student for the desktop, when they get the netbook, they probably just have to enter the license information to activate it on the new system (Home and Student is normally licensed for up to 3 computers.)

Also, anyone know if Microsoft is lifting the hardware limits for Netbooks running Win 7?
There aren't any limits on Netbooks running Win 7. There might be for Win 7 Starter, but Win 7 Starter exists mostly to get netbook manufacturers to move off of XP -- and to sell end-users upgrades to Win 7 Home Premium once they run into the Starter limits.
Re:The dream lives on by some_guy_88 · 2010-01-26 10:48 · Score: 1

The problem though I think is advertising. Or lack of it as the case may be. If people think of Linux as a cheap alternative to Windows and don't appreciate it as a separate platform in it's own right, then most people are going to pay the slightly higher price tag for the "real thing".
Re:The dream lives on by Rennt · 2010-01-26 15:35 · Score: 1

This doesn't invalidate your whole post, but the GOG back catalogue works just as well for linux users. You do know those games aren't running native under Windows?
Re:The dream lives on by Rennt · 2010-01-26 15:41 · Score: 1

If you use iTunes for play music, there are plenty of alternatives.
Not if you want to use the iTunes store, and know that it will seamlessly work with all the variations of iPods, and get the benefits of being in the mainstream.
What an odd thing to say - If you predefine your requirements for an alternative to iTunes as "must be iTunes" then you really arn't looking at alternatives are you!
Re:The dream lives on by AaronLawrence · 2010-01-26 23:42 · Score: 1

No the requirements were to use the iTunes store, seamlessly work with all the variations of iPods, and get the benefits of being in the mainstream. If something else can do this, rock on.

--
For every expert, there is an equal and opposite expert. - Arthur C. Clarke
Re:The dream lives on by Rennt · 2010-01-27 01:50 · Score: 1

Wut? you just did it again. Lookit -
Requirement #1 : use the iTunes store. Surely you should have specified access to a music store. iTunes can only be accessed by iTunes - Translation "must be iTunes"
Requirement #2 : seamlessly work with all the variations of *iPods*. Not media players in general? Why specify the devices set up to only work with iTunes - Translation "must be iTunes"
Requirement #3 : Get the benefits of being in the mainstream - I suspect what you are getting at is the acceptance that comes from owning cool toys ("must be apple"), but I'll accept that I don't know what you are talking about. I'd rather the benefit of not being locked into Requirements 1 & 2 thankyou.
You see, there is nothing you can do with iTunes + iPhone that you couldn't to with, say Amazon + Android, so there are valid alternatives. Your requirements are rather poorly defined as "must be iTunes".
Re:The dream lives on by AaronLawrence · 2010-01-28 09:16 · Score: 1

Ah you are right .. except that Amazon music store isn't accessible to me (outside the US). Keep waiting for that :( so basically for me the only decent music store is iTunes.
Thanks for the thoughts.

--
For every expert, there is an equal and opposite expert. - Arthur C. Clarke

Re:Will 2010 be by gmuslera · 2010-01-26 05:06 · Score: 1

2020 will be the year of the tuxedo, not because how it will look, but for what will be running inside.

Re:crazy moon man language by bendodge · 2010-01-26 05:50 · Score: 1

My old retail XP box also had eXPerience on it.

--
The government can't save you.

Re:crazy moon man language by Marcika · 2010-01-26 05:54 · Score: 1

XP--Nobody actually knows what this stands for, but you can call it Windows 5.1 if that makes you feel better..

You're welcome.

Well, officially it stands for eXPerience, but unofficially it probably evolved from the codeword for the Windows NT codebase that it is based on: XP = Chi Rho = Cairo...

Re:Waiting... by 0123456 · 2010-01-26 06:07 · Score: 2, Interesting

UNR works better than a default install on a netbook with a small screen; the biggest issue I've found so far is that it forces dialog boxes to full screen and they often don't like it... they're still usable but look really ugly.

Re:Waiting... by WeatherGod · 2010-01-26 06:19 · Score: 4, Interesting

This problem has been getting better with each release. Software developers are rethinking their assumptions when designing their GUIs, which has lead to improved GUIs for everyone. Diversity exposes assumptions which leads to more robust software.

What I do wish is to somehow teach all users the "Alt-drag" trick to deal with dialogue boxes that are too large. While it is fairly common knowledge among many users, it is non-obvious to the uninitiated.

Re:crazy moon man language by JSG · 2010-01-26 06:49 · Score: 1

> XP--Nobody actually knows what this stands for

I have seen some old projects in Britain referred to as XP for "Experimental". That term seemed quite appropriate when WinXP was foisted on the world.

Re:crazy moon man language by Again · 2010-01-26 07:21 · Score: 3, Funny

XP--Nobody actually knows what this stands for, but you can call it Windows 5.1 if that makes you feel better.

Straight from the horse's mouth found via Wikipedia: The XP name is short for "experience," symbolizing the rich and extended user experiences Windows and Office can offer by embracing Web services that span a broad range of devices.

In that case I am not moving to Windows 7! I want a rich experience and according to my research, only XP can provide that.

Re:crazy moon man language by nschubach · 2010-01-26 07:24 · Score: 1

When you opened up the box, did you level up? If so, what did you put your stat points in?

--
Every time I start to have faith in humanity, I ruin it by driving to work between 7 and 8 am.

Re:that's why by Tetsujin · 2010-01-26 07:54 · Score: 1

And that's why I bought a Saturn.

So how are you enjoying Virtua Fighter?

If ever there was a game worth buying a Saturn for, that was it...

I rented this game called "Bug" for it once, though - it was awful!

--
Bow-ties are cool.

Re:crazy moon man language by Tetsujin · 2010-01-26 07:56 · Score: 1

UNR--Ubuntu Netbook Remix. This is straight from the summary, bless your illiterate soul.

XP--Nobody actually knows what this stands for, but you can call it Windows 5.1 if that makes you feel better.

It's Microsoft giving you the raspberry!

HAHA LOL BUY WINDOWS XP

--
Bow-ties are cool.

Re:crazy moon man language by bored · 2010-01-26 09:23 · Score: 1

I've been calling it eXtraPoop since it was released. Given I was running w2k pro, I concluded it was called XP for all the unnecessary crap like windows activation, and the fisher-price look it had.

Re:crazy moon man language by BitwizeGHC · 2010-01-26 09:57 · Score: 1

I always thought of it as "chi rho", as in Microsoft thinks they're God now.

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N4st0r, trixx0r h0bb1tz0rz! Th3y st0l3 0ur pr3c10uzz!

Re:that's why by TheRaven64 · 2010-01-26 10:11 · Score: 1

No, the game worth buying a Saturn for is Death Tank Zwei. It's also the game worth buying a multitap and seven Saturn controllers for. Assuming that you have six or more friends...

--
I am TheRaven on Soylent News

Re:crazy moon man language by TheRaven64 · 2010-01-26 10:15 · Score: 1

XP stands for 'if we name this one after a year, it will probably be delayed and ship in the wrong year, then look really dated long before we get the next one finished and ready to ship.' It was originally called Windows IWNTOAAYIWPBDASITWYTLRDLBWGTNOFARTS, but marketing decided that XP was more memorable.

--
I am TheRaven on Soylent News

Re:Waiting... by DrCode · 2010-01-26 10:22 · Score: 1

True. First thing I do after installing UNR is kill 'maximus' and remove it from (I think) the 'services' dialog.

Check out UNR again by StephenM_Sparrowhawk · 2010-01-26 10:53 · Score: 1

I have tried many distros on my EEE-PC 701 inc crunchbang, xubuntu, dsl, eeexubuntu, pupeee, vanilla ubuntu and an earlier version of UNR. For various reasons, I was unable to live with these. Unstable bluetooth, wifi support, speed and usability issues were uppermost. I recently tried the latest UNR and now EVERYTHING works, wifi, bluetooth, multi monitors, function keys, webcam etc, and its rock solid. It has transformed the machine from a fun toy to a useful tool. I would highly recommend trying UNR to everyone with a EEEpc 701. A big thank you Mr Ubuntu and all the developers.

UNR is not mobile by kriston · 2010-01-26 15:30 · Score: 1

Ubuntu Netbook Remix is not mobile. It is mobile in name and user interface, but certainly not by its architecture. It should have all of the usual read/write bits mounted on a ramdisk so as to not use the flash drive (or hard disk) for anything. It should also have tweaked Mozilla to also use ramdisk for its temporary storage. And don't log errors anywhere. Don't load a zillion daemons. Don't load the regular kernel.
Just be more like Damn Small Linux, Familiar, or the Eee PC and Acer Aspire One's systems.

UNR is not mobile in anything but GUI.

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Kriston

Re:UNR is not mobile by Erikderzweite · 2010-01-26 22:01 · Score: 1

UNR has a GUI to make a LiveUSB (even from a LiveCD). That is pretty portable, you can even use some free space to store your user profile. And I find UNR pretty fast even when booting from flash.

Re:Will 2010 be by LeadSongDog · 2010-01-27 06:48 · Score: 1

2020 will be the year of the tuxedo, not because how it will look, but for what will be running inside.

Running inside the tuxedo will be a poor man trying to look "presidential" for the cameras.

--
Oh, I'm sorry sir, I thought you were referring to me, Mr. Wensleydale.

http://ordergolfonline.com cheap golf by cheapgolf · 2010-01-27 18:06 · Score: 1

http://ordergolfonline.com/ cheap golf ordergolfonline - Discount Golf Clubs and Golf Euqipment Shop online-OrderGolfOnline.com cheap golf,online golf,cheap golf,golf accessories,pro golf Order Golf Clubs and golf equipment online in ordergolfonline. We have discount golf clubs, discount golf equipment and golf accessories for sale online and the latest new golf clubs, balls and golf equipment to keep you on the ball cheap golf

ARM may be the key by ALeader71 · 2010-01-28 11:24 · Score: 1

Right now, the majority of tablet devices use ARM processors. If this continues and M$ is creating an ARM-friendly version, linux could be the OS of choice.

--
Only the dead have seen the end of War. - Plato

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