"Perpetual Motion DeLorean" Scammers Face $26M Judgment

An anonymous reader writes "Back in 2002, we discussed a story about the so-called 'Perpetual Motion DeLorean,' which could 'supposedly go "hundreds of miles" at speeds over 100MPH without stopping to recharge.' More than seven years later, the final shoe has dropped on this saga, with a $26 million judgment against Carl Tilley and his wife, who propagated this scam that ran for several years. Probably the height of its audacity was when Tilley told his shareholders in May of 2002 that GE had offered $2 billion 'sight unseen' to buy out the technology."

Comments

Admirable traits for a respectable CEO

[s-whs]

Without doubt that guy could be on the board or be CEO of a big company...

(I'm being serious!)

Re:Admirable traits for a respectable CEO

[ScrewMaster]

Serious? Really? How are most technology CEO's scammers on a level that this guy is on? Can you name a legit technology CEO that you think is at that same 'scam level'?

Well, "scammer" is a relative term. Certainly a number of U.S. CEO-types have scammed their employees out of their jobs, and have been scamming the government for years (H1B allocations, outsourcing, not enough capable American workers, TARP, etc. etc. etc.) so a comparison of the level of ethics involved is entirely reasonable.

Open the borders

[cryfreedomlove]

Well, "scammer" is a relative term. Certainly a number of U.S. CEO-types have scammed their employees out of their jobs, and have been scamming the government for years (H1B allocations, outsourcing, not enough capable American workers, TARP, etc. etc. etc.) so a comparison of the level of ethics involved is entirely reasonable.

H1B is a scam? I believe in open immigration. Unless we can prove you are a criminal, we should let you in. Where you were born is random chance, so it hardly seems fair for me to hoard the benefits of living in the USA.

Re:Open the borders

[A nonymous Coward]

Because the H1B holders are as close to indentured servants as it gets these days. Their H1B visas are tied to their jobs -- if they lose their jobs, they have something like two weeks to find a new job or leave the country.

Employers like that bludgeon to hold against employees. Work your ass off for less pay, don't cause trouble, and in a few years you might be able to stay here on your own. I'd like to see a plot of how many H1B employees are laid off or fired vs time with the H1B. I bet there'd be a spike near the end. I bet a plot of hires vs time in visa would show hiring falling off near the end of the visa time. Why hire an H1B who only has a few months of servitude remaining? On the other hand, those within such close reach of a permanent visa might just be more desperate and more willing to take crappy terms.

Proper H1B reform would start with applying the visa to the employee, not the job. You'd see corporate interest in hiring H1B holders drop like a rock. That should tell you something.

Re:Open the borders

[ScrewMaster]

An excess of supply over demand would drive down salaries irrespective of whether the surplus applicants came from Indiana or India.

Yes, and the normal cycle is that a shortage causes salaries to rise until sufficient workers are trained in order to alleviate the shortage. Then salaries drop. The point is, you see nothing wrong with a deliberately manufactured surplus of certain classes of traditionally well-paid workers instituted for the express purpose of driving down wages? How is that any different from what the oil companies did back in the seventies by manufacturing an "energy crisis" for the express purpose of raping our wallets? Either way, for an American corporate to treat domestic workers that way is sleazy, underhanded and treasonous.

Re:They should be given medals, not prison sentenc

[wickedskaman]

I'm in the United States here so the results may be skewed... but how many people do you think out of a poll of 100 random respondents would be able to describe accurately what "perpetual motion" means? :-\

Re:They should be given medals, not prison sentenc

[Anonymous Coward]

Your thinking is the broken window fallacy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_broken_window

Your thinking is the same thinking as 'tax the rich more'. Which is a fallacy too as the 'rich' do not keep their money in big stacks sitting around their house. They keep it in stocks, bonds, bank balances, etc. They basically loan the money out to others to use for a fee. So people can have newer things now. With a tax the rich that money can not be reloaned out (thus helping build more things). It is spent.

Ob

[Hognoxious]

[mode = evangelical german christian with 98 kids] Who are we to say that perpetual motion is impossible? Thermodynamic laws are just theories, like evolution and gravity.[/]

Perpetual Scam

[edibobb]

It makes you wonder how many times over the past 150 years people have been suckered into investing in machines that (allegedly) violate the law: energy can be neither created nor destroyed.

There was supposed to be an electric bike

[cvtan]

The Tilley Foundation was supposed to go into production with an electric bike on July 4, 2004, but it did not materialize. I'm shocked. The Aptera 2e is going to be available in 2009. No, wait... The Corbin Sparrow went into production (sold 285 and went out of business). The Solus International KD08E COCO is available (it can only go 25mph). My liege, the list is long and the batteries still sucketh.

Re:Free energy community?

[Anonymous Coward]

There are some 100MPG capable cars using internal combustion engines. And a few examples did exist. But there are two major reasons why the car companies didn't build them as mass production models:

1. Slower than molasses. The engines used in some cars that got this figure back in the 1950's and 1960's were of such small displacement that it took around 2 minutes to get up to 60MPH. They're even more comparable to lawn mower engines rather than motorcycles. It didn't have as much to do with the carbuerator. Now in a world where highway on ramps are short, most cars average 0-60 in 7-8 seconds, and where semis bear down the highway at 70+ MPH, would anyone in their right mind want a dinky little car with such slow acceleration? (Mopeds get great fuel economy too, but there's a reason why they're not allowed on the interstate.)
2. Ridiculous maintenance requirements. Another series of cars developed in the 1970's and 1980's also had impressive economy stats while performance was more reasonable. The reason they were efficient is because they exploited an abadiatic cycle that reused heat in the engine. (Typically a variation of small displacement w/ turbo.) But the tradeoff was that the engines operated under what would be considered extreme thermal loads. So although there was no cooling system (evaporated fuel was used for some cooling), you had to be rather religious about changing the oil and other periodic maintenance. Maintenance schedules were also more rigorous. Something like a carbon deposit that a normal engine could tolerate without incident might cause a piston failure on a much hotter abadiatic engine. If the oil gets to the point where its degraded, you go from a running engine to needing a new engine rather quick. Not so much with much cooler operating regular engines of similar design, you could go for months before the damage gets to the same point.

I think practicality is what ended up sealing the fate of the few 100MPG automobiles. Now with hybrid systems you could make up for the fault of designs under #1 with electric motors such that they're more practical. But even then the added weight of the electrical systems means you're still not going to get the same numbers.

As for perpetual energy devices? Show me a good example of negative energy first. Then you may be able to exploit a differential while having a net energy of 0 such that numbers would balance out. But then this means that negative mass should be possible as well (given E=mc^2), so you should also be showing me an anti-gravity device of some sort to go with it. Seems more likely that we'll tap into vast reserves of unobtanium before that ever happens though.

Free energy scam , there are dozen a penny

[aepervius]

I mean, just look at steorn.com ! Those guy preetnd to have 3 time OU. They are also pretending to demonstrate since 1/2 december. You think they would have a comprehensive evidence by now ? Think again. And look at the freaking FOLLOWING like a cult they got. Remmember Dennis lee ? Remmember the other scammer like Lutec ? Scam there are a dozen out there. Start by the billion dollard homeopathy industry (motto: selling sugar pills to the gullible since 1886).