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Studies Reveal Why Kids Get Bullied and Rejected
Thelasko writes "I'm sure many here have been the victim of bullying at some point in their lives. A new study suggests why. '...now researchers have found at least three factors in a child's behavior that can lead to social rejection. The factors involve a child's inability to pick up on and respond to nonverbal cues from their pals.' The article sketches out some ways teachers and councilors are working with bullied kids to help them develop the missing social skills."
Years of pent-up anger boiled over. My high school tormentor was sitting across a cafeteria table from me. I decided right then and there,that I was going to strike back, as brutally and spectacularly as possible. I used the attached round stool as a launching pad and dove into him, knocking both of us to the ground. I rose immediately, punching him in the hard part of the side of the head - hard enough to indent my middle knuckle to the point that it's now level with the rest of the other knuckles. He was humiliated, I was vindicated (and suffered very mild punishment), and the BULLYING STOPPED FOR GOOD because the 1200+ other students in that school learned through the usual grapevine that I FOUGHT BACK.
Interesting -- at my school, the bullies were more likely to be the poorer kids, and the bullied were the rich kids. There were exceptions, of course, but the general trend was clear...
If you something that other kids have that they don't, you will be bullied, like having two working parents, or hope for the future and the motivation to want to learn and go on to college or university.
There have been plenty of news reports of stories like this, and the victims are not simply those who are underweight/overweight, or with learning difficulties. There have reports of students being attacked (and even committing suicide) because they were successful in their work. Then the bullies would just pick on something. If it wasn't your height or weight, it would be the brand of your pens.
According to this article, it says the kids who are being bullied because they lack social skills. I would say it is because they are in an environment where they are being bullied, that they can't develop social skills.
Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
trust me taking a few down gains you a rep on do not mess with. some new bully would come along and the old ones would warn him to stay away. the words where don't mess with that geek he has a attitude. trust me having a rep as geek with bad attitude was way better then the alternate. but i guess this study is for the kids not wiling to take a bully down a few pags.
That was my impression too.
The article basically says: children with Asperger-like behavior are bullied (so it's their own fault).
In the real world, bullying and social isolation do not necessarily happen together. The article seems to present both as unseparable facts though.
The article fails to address other factors like: What about the bully kid? Why does he/she does that? How some bullies are able to form mobs? Why not all kids behave like bullies when in contact with such child?
Apparently it's too hard and boring to research properly on that subject so:
- Blame the bullied kid.
- Say he/she needs treatment.
- Push tons of pills in order to fix all his/her social problems.
- Profit.
I would say it is because they are in an environment where they are being bullied
You don't see that kind of shit in the workplace, at least not the in-your-face kind of thing: adults would never stand for it. It's weird how it is tolerated in a child's environment. "Boys will be boys" and such.
I was naturally a nerd and would've continued down that path happily into a career as a scientist, but I had to become "cool" to fit in. I know that I didn't really "have to" and that it was my choice, but I believe that an environment that was more conducive to the brighter students would have led a few more of us in that direction.
Look where all this talking got us, baby.
Bullies don't have initially preferred targets, I bet they try to bully everybody, but they continue with people who don't fight back or don't know how to protect themselves, what are the chances that those people are the shy ones, the ones that don't get social clues, the ones that are a bit slower? Do we need a study for that?
"It is our choices, Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities." -- Prof. Dumbledore
It reminds me of after there were several school shootings in a row they decided the best course of action was to go after the kids being bullied. Part of the problem I always found was the "bullies" are often popular kids or jocks and the schools won't touch them. It's just easier politically to go after the victims.
You can be mean to me
'The tyrant will always find pretext for his tyranny.' - Aesop's Fables
I've lived a strange life. I was bullied from a very, very young age at school. I was also bullied by my older brother and his friends. After time, at school I became the bully. After about a year I switched schools. Once again, I was bullied. Within a year, I switched homerooms and the bullying stopped (one class was full of completely malicious little shits and the other was full of people I would be friends with for a decade). A few years later, a kid that had bullied me in the past came back to the school. I bullied him continuously. Then, I moved to another state and school. I was bullied there for about two years. I went to another school and by then I had learned a few lessons. The bully in me was still there. But it had changed. Instead of bullying the weak, I enjoyed bullying the bullies. I treated the world as a hostile place. Everyone that wasn't a friend was an enemy. Every affront was an act of war, and my typical response was escalation. You push me into a locker? I pull a knife on you. You punch me? I slip on brass knuckles and return the favor. I got a reputation as a crazy bastard. Eventually I calmed down to where I am now. Rarely bullying others, and rarely resorting to violence. People say that I have an attitude (they can just sense it without me talking), and I believe this is largely why I am no longer "messed with." I carry a weapon everywhere (even to places with metal detectors; i have a specially designed plastic knife meant to bypass them) and I constantly assess threats.
I advise people to treat being bullied like war.
Escalate- Attack.
De Escalate- Let them do what they want and hope they stop.
Maintain the status quo- Only if you believe something will change on its own
If you're not a tough kid, I'd advise you to talk to some tough kids. At one point I had two kids who would do assaults for hire (they're in prison now). Either way, discreetly pay some rougher kids (arrange a half up front or some sort of protection) to protect you and to attack your enemies. Of course legally you can be accountable- but if you're smart, you can cover your tracks enough to create reasonable doubt ("I only wanted them to protect me") and prevent conviction if it somehow managed to go to trial (never happens). Basically, grow a pair of balls and go to war or hire mercenaries.
I remember in one of my college classes (name drop to let you know how old I am ;) ), I heard an older woman (40s) constantly venting about her son's problem with a bully. Even after multiple "incidents," and several visits to court, this kid at her son's HS still was harassing him. He had shown up at their house and attacked her son. The typically inept police (not a slam at cops in general, but in my current state the cops are a joke. some states have higher standards.) did nothing after she attempted to file a police report. Basically, they system hasn't done shit except make it worse for her son. Could have gone much easier if she had gone down other paths such as:
Escalation: Paying someone to attack "the bully"
Escalation: Attacking the bully
De Escalation: Leaving town
Status Quo: Continue to be bullied
She chose-
Escalation: Putting the bully on trial
Worked out well, eh?
The system is terrible in most cases for justice. Either too harsh of sentences, or too light.
In a world of millions of bullies and millions of victims, curing the bullies one at a time does not help the victims. However, curing the victims one at a time at least helps the cured victims.
The article's advice would have been good for my 3rd grade school administrator to hear - I was all of 8 years old and when the entire male population of 3rd grade decided to go gang-banger on me as a group, his advice was "well, aren't you just being a crybaby?" Yeah, that helps an 8 year old a hell of a lot - should have whacked him on the back of the head with a baseball bat to see if he's just a crybaby too. (context: private school (and before you take that out on me, remember, 8 years old, not my call) the other kids were "paying customers," I was in on employee discount.)
Actually - your sarcastic explanation of rape may not be as wrong as you assume. Give it some serious thought. In real life, I knew a girl who got rid of a a dog, because the dog didn't like her new boyfriend. I TOLD her that she should trust the dog's judgement. After years of abuse, and a divorce, she admitted that she should have kept the dog.
Of course, suggesting that people in general, and women in particular, choose to ignore hints, cues, and clues that they are in danger isn't going to win any friends or respect. Especially among the women's rights activists.
"Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
Whoosh, huh? Maybe something went over your head?
Bullies can't be bought, bargained, or reasoned with - unless and until you attempt to reason with them, in terms that they can understand. Bullies enjoy inflicting pain and suffering, but they don't enjoy pain and suffering. When they are shown that attempting to inflict said pain on someone will cause THEM to suffer, they often do stop bullying. Or, in some cases, they just move to different targets that don't fight back.
Which brings us back to TFA. Understanding bullies and how to deal with them is a good thing, whether you are socially inept, or not. Conventional wisdom in dealing with bullies generally doesn't work, or teachers could and would routinely change the behaviour of bullies.
Someone mod GP up a little bit, huh?
"Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
As a child, I was beaten at home. I wasn't allowed any type of social interaction outside of normal school hours -- before I went to college, I never attended a party, stayed over anyone's house, or attended an extracurricular activity. I was also under sever threat if I ever got a detention, so I was an involuntary pacifist.
I can say this; there is a segment of kids who were just as monstrous as my parents. They had no consideration, and essentially tormented others. I interact fine socially (both today, and then), but the bottom line in my mind is that certain kids will be complete asses, and the vast majority of the others will stand by and watch. I can also say quite definitively it wasn't my fault.
Several have apologized in recent years (15 years later). In general, though -- if they are dicks as kids, they are dicks as adults. The worse part is several of them are now teachers and coaches.
Setup a plot to implicate themselves into some kind of illegal activity. At least that what some geeks do.
New Economic Perspectives
We've been down this road a couple of times with our kids being bullied at school. In nearly all cases, I'd judge that the bully kids were the ones with the social problems. Here are a few case studies from 4th to 6th grade:
Upshot is that the kids being bullied need to build self confidence and know which relationships can be fixed, and which ones can't. Bullies are typically insecure, jealous, or lonely and this is how they feel empowered.
We can see this in adults as well. Typically its the momma bear personality,though sometimes not. Discussion on their secret need to be dominated and disciplined is a topic for another forum.
A physical bully is a criminal, there is no social ineptness that justifies being physically battered.
The article deals how to help people deal with social bullying. Socially bullying is not a crime even though it could
be considered a form of harassment similar to sexual harassment in which case schools could be found civily liable
if they do not intervene actively to prevent it.
No the schools have never really taken on socially popular bullies. Schools only now are reacting because they are getting sued.
Let me extend on this with a brief experience of mine that drives this point really, really well. I was a really active debater during my high school years. (Not sure if it's there anymore, but I loved it!). Now, considering that most people I meet nowadays automatically relegate debate as a nerdy activity, one would (correctly) assume that the community attracts a pretty niche crowd. There were all kinds of people: liberals, hippies, scientists, philosophers, etc.. We had some slower folks, but they usually went by the wayside. Nonetheless, almost all of us had a really strong commonality: we were all geeks.
Many of us were tossed around and bullied during middle and/or high school, so the debate community insulated us from that somewhat. We could be weird and quirky, but still have fun being ourselves. However, there were always the elite folks. These were the creme de la creme: some of whom were the best debaters in the country. They formed their own cliques of greatness and practically shunned everyone "beneath" them. I've had people in my own team toss the less accomplished around in amusement, and I've even been harrassed by my own partners many times. I still loved debating, but that made it especially hard.
On top of that, getting bullied by smart people is, in some ways, worse than getting bullied by "brutes" because their methods of bullying people are usually more harmful and more subtle, thus being easier to let slide.
It's wrong in the politically correct way, no doubt. However, I'm sure that it's been accurate in more than a few instances, to put it politely. People don't want to hear the truth sometimes, and an ugly truth is basically impossible to ingrain into some. Fact is, humans have instincts which evolved over millions and millions of years, but we've apparently managed to shut them out more recently. They rarely lie, like your friend's dog.
Not like I'm trying to be hard on the women out there, but the victim mentality which seems to be prevalent today HAS to go. If the even a minority of woman out there armed themselves (as regionally appropriate), and trained in using those tools... The number of successful rapes would go down like the Hindenburg--like a big lump of flaming steel. Any rapists who escape their would-be victim would be turned over to a jury consisting of the victim's peers.
Once upon a time there was a bully. He bullied a lot of kids. One day he bullied the outcast. He shoved the outcast from behind as he was walking by. The outcast was slammed into the lockers and split his lip. The bully walked away laughing. That evening the outcast and his one lone friend came back to the school with a hacksaw, a school issue combination lock and two large garbage bags. While the friend stood watch at the end of the hall the outcast sawed the lock off the bully's locker. It took no more than a minute to empty the bullies locker into the garbage bags. The outcast locked the locker back up with the lock he brought. The garbage bags were tossed into a dumpster behind the gas station. The next morning the outcast watched from a distance while the bully tried to open his locker. The school locks all looked the same but his wouldn't open. Eventually the principal and the custodian came with some bolt cutters and the lock was cut. The locker was opened and inside was....nothing. No gym clothes, no textbooks, no almost complete woodwork project, no homework, no notes, no tennis racket, no leather jacket, no anything. The bully may have eventually realized that one of his victims had gotten even, but who it was, he never knew. He bullied a lot of kids.
i guess this study is for the kids not wiling to take a bully down a few pags.
Agree. I got bullied in grade school, but I beat the shit out of them. Most of them avoided me, though a couple still pushed me around. I always got punished whether I was beaten or beating - "zero tolerance" and whatnot.
Then I realized that since the consequences were the same (or even substantially better!) whether or not you were the aggressor, I decided I'd beat the shit out of the last recalcitrant bully first. Then they all avoided me.
Despite fully growing into nerddom in high school, I had zero problems with bullying there. I'm not sure if preemptively mauling your abusers in high school is as effective a tactic once you factor in juvenile court and expulsion. But, their files are still prone to deletion, their tires still prone to slashing, and their cars still prone to towing.
DATABASE WOW WOW
In any human group, there's going to be dominant ones, and there's going to be outcasts. If you're not strong enough to be dominant and don't fit with the followers, you'll be an outcast.
Exactly. And when kids aren't given any opportunity to not be proven an outcast (by fighting back) the only real way of dealing with it is with a good education system that puts kids who are similar together. Which, if it was done that way, I'd imagine there would be a lot less bullying in schools.
Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
A lot of schools today have "zero tolerance" policies toward fighting. It doesn't matter if he started it; it doesn't matter if you were defending yourself. You are disciplined if you are in a fight with another student.
It just changes the risk/reward calculus. If the abuser and abused are equally punished, it makes more sense to go after the bully first. It pays off in the long run, once they start avoiding you.
DATABASE WOW WOW
I can tell you why kids get bullied. Because kids who want to push somebody around think they can get away with it. Bullied kids are almost always the smallest / least athletic ones around.
On screen & stage, bullies are usually portrayed by a beefy guy, when ironically, in the real world, they're the ones most likely to be bullied. Bullies are more often the popular trickster type, who lash with their tongue.
He's asking for evidence to justify your human psychology theory. If you don't have any real evidence then fess up. It's not enough to give anecdotes that don't really address the issue. It's even worse to come up with some bizarre theory on his thought process that doesn't seem to amount to more than an ad hominem attack.
Chris Mesterharm
I was recently diagnosed with atypical autism, meaning that I don't have all the symptoms necessary to fit in a clean category, but have enough symptoms to warrant a diagnosis. The diagnosis explained quite a bit of my issues. One thing I remember in grade school was that I never saw conflict coming. That was my biggest issue. I was extremely aloof, and never had a chance when kids decided to give me a hard time. Given my natural tendency to space out, and enter a world of my own, it made me a tempting target for bullying. Looking back on it, I can see what the bullies found so attractive. I was like a big red button that demanded to be pushed. I would get extremely stressed out by it, which I'm sure to them was funny. Eventually, being taller than the rest of the kids, and naturally, weighing more than the majority of them, I learned to fight. That helped a bit, it stopped the physical confrontations, and got people to give me space, but it never really "fixed" the underlying problem, that I never learned how to read and understand other people properly. I learned to dish out pain. But, I'm starting to realize that what they saw, and what I experienced, were worlds apart. Along with problems in reading people, I also had issues in communicating just how I felt. That doesn't give them a pass, but I don't think that they understood how far they were pushing it. Certainly, the few times I snapped, they didn't see it coming, just like I never saw it coming when they would decide to give me a hard time. I have etched in my mind, like a flashbulb went off, pictures of numerous bullies, and the shock on their face right before my fist landed on it. To those who have never punched a tormenter in the face, it's a beautiful thing, even if you end up getting your ass kicked as a result.
I'm better now at relating with people, but still struggle with it. The aloofness that I used to have tends to be replaced with anxiety, suspicion, and wariness at times. I tend to see things coming better as a result (but obviously there are downsides). I just have to be careful not go too far and read too many things into a situation, as I have a tendency to over analyze a bit too much. The study seems to back up what I have experienced on a personal level for quite a bit of my life.
I went to a Malaysian Public Boarding High School. The environment there was closer to a military boot camp than Hogwarts, complete with barbed wire fences, guards and wardens. The eldest students there, called "seniors" lord over everyone else ("juniors"). You're pretty much at their beck and call and any perceived slights usually results in a beating. You dare not tell the teachers as it would probably get you more beatings from them as you are "tarnishing the school's reputation by making a complaint" and then even more beatings by the seniors when they found out you squawked. You also dare not tell your parents since you will let them down if you leave the boarding school. One of the tasks I had to do as a junior was to wash a whole dorm of senior's uniform, all 18 of them, once a week. There were no washing machines and you have to manually wash, dry and iron them. After a few times of doing this, I decided to strike back. After washing their uniforms, I carefully rubbed them on the communal toilet floor, in such a way as not to stain them. I then dried the uniforms and lightly ironed them. After a few weeks of this, many of the seniors developed very itchy fungal skin infections. To my great satisfaction, they never did found out what I did. From then on, I learned that revenge is truly best served cold. Seeing your tormentors in discomfort and none the wiser is much sweeter than fighting back physically.
"bullying" normally manifests as:
"hey dork, why do you smell?"
it VERY RARELY escalates to bloody noses or broken jaws. In fact, it makes headlines when it does.
I worked at a primary school for 3 years and only had two instances of any violence and both were simply black eyes and were escalated from off-campus disagreements between kids from gang related families.
But, "hey four eyes, you like to suck penis" is a common bullying tactic and can do just as much damage, but MOST DEFINITELY does not ever result in someone going to jail.
Uh, it's pretty clear to me that there is an overtone in this article that it's victim's fault
No, it's just that bullies are like sharks. The attack is always the shark's fault, but there are certain evasive things you can learn so that you avoid from getting attacked by all of them
Here is the problem. The law (in the U.S.) does not work that way.
Case in point.
In the State of Nevada, if a woman has had anything to drink at all (notice the law does not cover men, but that is a different story), has sex with someone, she can file rape charges up to 48 hours (can not remember, might be 24 hours) after and it is assumed that it is by definition rape because she is intoxicated and could not make an informed CHOICE even if she verbally and physically consented. No blame what so ever, even if a hundred witness watched her beg a guy at a party or a bar to have sex with her and she only had one or two drinks.
Now, if that woman after the sex (rape or not) gets in to a car and drives home, she is automatically guilty of a DWI because she made the CHOICE to drink.
Being blameworthy (could have done otherwise), has very little to do with the law.
I'm bothered by the volume of "beat the shit outta them" responses. When I was 12 I did just that--socked some jerk in the mouth who wouldn't leave me alone. Years later, I learned through another party that this incident led to his respecting me.
Strangely, I don't feel happy about that. It bugs me that the best way to get his respect, and the only way I could think of, was to turn to violence. I don't like the idea of using fighting to fix problems. What looks like a simple childhood schoolyard lesson could plant the seeds in children that will lead to them making decisions to go to war as adults because they can't figure out a better way.
Now, I'm not trying to push some happy-sappy Christian bs on everyone here, but to me, the best lesson is that there is ALWAYS a better way. Always. Full stop. And this is from a guy who as a kid who was shoved into lockers and had his face pressed into the sand more than once. That's just the PHYSICAL abuse I endured.
For the victim of bullying, the real pain from it starts in your own head. Another reason nobody is citing here for bullying is that bullies go after people they can bother. If it doesn't bother you (I don't mean ACTING like it doesn't bother you. I mean it REALLY doesn't bother you), the bullies will smell that too, and often lose interest. It's also healthier to look inside and think about WHY it bothers you so much, and whether or not you've got hidden problems you didn't know about. I'm not "blaming the victim" here, because that would assume the victim is responsible for the bullying. The bully is responsible for what happens. The victim, however, is responsible for what happens next.
But hey, if this is too tough for you guys to comprehend, then by all means, go back to bloodying your knuckles. Fight violence with violence. Well done. Glad to see you're above all that.
Sure, you can always site extreme cases, but for the most part, bullying is very minor at worst. Most bullies also don't respond well to people who do fight back, even just verbally because most of them (even the ones who do use physical abuse) are scared of actually losing.
My daughter was being bullied at school and the solution I gave her was to tell the teacher and me. If the teacher didn't fix the problem the first time, I'd talk to the teacher and if the problem still persisted I told my daughter to make a fist and hit the kid as hard as she could square in the nose.
My daughter took the problem one step further after I had talked to her teacher. In front of the teacher she told the kid exactly the instructions I had given her. The kid never bothered her again.
There are always avenues of diplomacy that should be followed, but bullies never stand up to someone who will at least attempt to thwart them. It's easier to go bully someone else.
"Growing old is inevitable; growing up is optional."
Here's the thing: you're right, people who are the subject of violence can often (although certainly not always) do things to avoid being placed in a situation where violence is the end result.
There's a name for people like that. We call them "men".
Men are victimized by all violent crimes (except possibly rape, where men report lower rates by a factor of up to ten, but want to bet the reporting bias is huge?) at rates up to several times greater than women. A large part of the difference can be accounted for by differences in crime-avoidant behaviors. Women are taught a lot about how to avoid being a victim of violent crime. Men are not. And no one much cares.
One of the reasons idiots give for not caring is that "men are also the perpetrators". Somehow in the minds of idiots this makes everything ok. I'm not stupid enough to understand quite how, but I think it has something to do with collective guilt and the belief that men are somehow complicit in their own victimization simply by virtue of being men.
Blasphemy is a human right. Blasphemophobia kills.
I think I may fall in this category as well. I still had trouble with bullies but on reflection it may have been because I was self-centered. With plenty of friends outside of school - which was the early 80's - it wasn't really a priority for me to be interested in the kids at my school. Computers and electronics occupied my spare time but I also played a lot of hockey and cycling.
I didn't share the things I played with because - frankly - most other kids didn't understand what to do with an electronics lab kit. One kid decided to trick me by acting all curious about what a 'floppy disk' was and when I showed him one (that contained the code I was writing at the time) he decided it would be a good idea to scrape his finger along the media. As I watched in horror he said 'you aren't supposed to do that are you?'.
As soon as the kids found out I was a computer 'geek' or 'nerd' the bullying started. I would try to hide and avoid a confrontation until I was cornered. Problem for them was I had a foul temper and didn't they get a nasty surprise. I think they thought because I was trying to avoid them and just play with my computers and electronics I was somehow afraid, which I was, but of them and my temper in equal measure. I hated being bullied and every time it happened the fear, frustration and anger would build until confrontation was unavoidable. I never instigated it but I finished it. Once every 6 months one of these losers would come along to make life a misery.
Towards the end of school everyone was asked what they were going to do when they left school. While everyone else was saying 'mechanic' or 'hairdresser' I outlined my 5 year plan to get into the IT industry. Most of the kids looked at me like I was some kind of loser but as I had already been paid for my code and magazine contributions I was confident that I wasn't. 20 years of IT work later it's a genuine pleasure to be talking to like minded people here. I still feel the joy of working with code that I did as a boy and no bully could ever take that away from me.
I wish I had this kind of advice when I was a kid so I could have controlled the situation a little better only because I feel I could have done better at school. Even so I feel that there it's a valuable life skill to have learned how to confront bullies. It's satisfying to look at them while they apologise with a black eye and a busted nose. Now I don't get intimidated easily and this has translated to the ability to deal with drunken assholes as well as confidence in business negotiations.
My ism, it's full of beliefs.
Yeah, I've heard this before, but my experiences and what I've seen happen to others have said otherwise.
There was a kid named Joe that lived up the street from me who even I found to be really annoying. He was kind of like the Flanders kids on the Simpsons crossed with Pee Wee Herman. Now I got more than my share of bullying when I was in school, but this guy got bullied a lot more than even I did. I remember vividly one incident in middle school where this guy ran into Joe intentionally to knock him over. I guess something in the kid kind of snapped and he took a swing at the bully. The punch kind of glanced off the side of his head. The guy just looked at Joe for a second and then started to wail on him. He ended up sitting on his chest and pounding him while Joe just tried to cover his face. Luckily one of the teachers came out of the building then and broke it up.
This was not the only experience I had like this. Most of the bullying done to me and others was by groups of kids. Attempting to fight back against one of them was not something they could back down from. Nor would it foster any respect on their part for you. They were always bigger and stronger, so they had little to fear, and fighting back just made them more determined to break you. Middle school and high school were not pretty for myself or a lot of others I knew.
It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds. - Captain Hammer
One may not be able to empathize, but at the same time that person may, out of self interest and an understanding of how society works, decide *not* to do things which may have an adverse affect on his own self (incarceration, social ostracism, being fired, etc.). I strongly suspect that there are a large number of well-adjusted people with psychopathy that just live out their lives.
Yes, these are what I call the "smart sociopaths". They become lawyers, CEOs, and politicians, and cause FAR more damage to society with their wickedness than the "stupid sociopaths", who just become criminals and go to prison. How many people are suffering because of this recession caused by the mortgage meltdown? I guarantee you a bunch of sociopaths are responsible for it.
Sociopaths should be identified by brain scan and eliminated before they're born.
From this, the logical next step would be to subject a bully to so much abuse that his self esteem is shattered and see if this changes their behavior. This would obviously be immoral.
How is that obviously immoral? Would it really be that much different from going to war to fight an aggressor nation?