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HP's New Data Center Cooled By Glacial Wind

Arvisp writes with this snippet about HP's recently completed datacenter in northeast England, which utilizes the glacial wind blowing off the North Sea to lower temperatures of IT equipment and plant rooms: "The Wynyard takes in the cool air, filters it accordingly and collects it in the management system and is then forced over the front of the server racks before it is exhausted. The result is a hall with a constant temperature of 24C. When the winds become even colder than usual, the exhausted heat is mixed with the outside air to maintain temperatures."

116 comments

  1. Sounds cold! by Elshar · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Chilly

    Also fp

    1. Re:Sounds cold! by JWSmythe · · Score: 3, Funny

          24C is 75F. That sounds like a wonderful place to work, as long as you don't have to go outside. :)

      --
      Serious? Seriousness is well above my pay grade.
    2. Re:Sounds cold! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That don't sound very cold to me...

    3. Re:Sounds cold! by hvm2hvm · · Score: 1

      24C is way too much for a comfortable working environment. In my house, the heating system keeps the air at an average of 22C and it's sometimes so warm it's tiring.

      --
      ics
    4. Re:Sounds cold! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That all depends on what climate you're used to. I myself prefer 23-24.

    5. Re:Sounds cold! by JWSmythe · · Score: 1

          I live in Florida. Subtropical is the norm. This "cold" is driving folks crazy. I've seen people wearing ski jackets to be able to handle it. I know a lot of people don't travel a lot. I've had my time in various climates (anywhere from 24 degrees N to 62 degrees N), so I can handle it, but most of my time was spent between 27 degrees N to 34 degrees N, where it's nice and warm. That's been split between the dry-summer subtropical and humid subtropical.

      --
      Serious? Seriousness is well above my pay grade.
    6. Re:Sounds cold! by Abreu · · Score: 1

      Well, time for another anecdote from south of the border:

      I just moved to a new apartment, three bedrooms, nice living area, the complex has a nice garden and there's a beautiful park just outside... Essentially, a great place for the kids to grow.

      BUT! It's in the ground floor and there's not much light and DAMN its cold sometimes.

      Right now, we are freezing every night... at 6-8 degrees Celsius in these mid-February nights (41-46 Fahrenheit)

      Many of you will say "that's not cold!" but its certainly very cold for us!
      Also, keep in mind that homes here aren't built with heating or AC, because we are used to have very temperate weather...

      --
      No sig for the moment.
    7. Re:Sounds cold! by apoc.famine · · Score: 1

      You're right in saying that a bunch of us won't think that's cold. (I'm just south of the border too - the Canadian border...) I was running around with my coat unzipped the other day, it was so warm. It was hot and sunny, and got all the way up to 0 C here! For February, that's pretty warm. 10 C is enough for me to skip the heavy jacket and hat and just wear a sweatshirt over my button-down shirt.

      A college friend of mine is from Puerto Rico, and went home for Christmas. We figured out that it was 100 F colder here one night than at her house in PR. Needless to say, she wasn't so happy when she came back here.

      That said, it sounds like you've found a great place to live. Best of luck, and stay warm. :-)

      --
      Velociraptor = Distiraptor / Timeraptor
    8. Re:Sounds cold! by Mr.+DOS · · Score: 1

      17-18C here. Welcome to Canada in winter with a budget heating bill ;)

            --- Mr. DOS

    9. Re:Sounds cold! by mab · · Score: 1

      The Air conditioning at work is set to 25C, but I do live in the tropics (Darwin, AU) where outside it's 32C

    10. Re:Sounds cold! by xaxa · · Score: 1

      It is currently 5 C outside this new datacentre. Nearby offices will be heated to 19-23 C. Humidity makes a big difference to how hot it feels, England is often quite humid (86% at the moment).

    11. Re:Sounds cold! by riT-k0MA · · Score: 1

      I live in the South-end of South Africa where the temprature ranges from about 15C (Mid-winter average) to 35C (Mid-summer average).
      Some places have aircon.
      Central heating and double-glazing are myths invented by tourists.
      When it gets warm, we sit around in a cool spot and drink beer and white wine. When it gets cool we sit inside around the fireplace and drink red wine and spirits.
      And people wonder why I have a monstrous CPU-cooler on my pc...

  2. just a thought... by snikulin · · Score: 2, Funny

    Canada exporting cold (in whatever form) to California.

    1. Re:just a thought... by hvm2hvm · · Score: 1

      More like California exporting heat to Canada (if you look at it energy wise) but I suppose California is more need of cooling than Canada is in need of heating.

      --
      ics
    2. Re:just a thought... by Clover_Kicker · · Score: 2, Funny

      I hereby sentence you to spend the rest of the winter in your choice of Edmonton, Saskatoon, or Winnipeg.

    3. Re:just a thought... by c6gunner · · Score: 1

      Canada exporting cold (in whatever form) to California.

      But we already sent you Celine Dion ...

    4. Re:just a thought... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Chris Benoit too.

    5. Re:just a thought... by fizzup · · Score: 1

      Pick Edmonton.

    6. Re:just a thought... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It is not even a contest, Edmonton hands down. Although Saskatoon is a nice small city.

  3. Total cost by houstonbofh · · Score: 0

    With a Power Usage Effectiveness (PUE) rating of 1.2 PUE or for every 1.2 watt used to power the equipment, 1 watt is used for cooling, the Wynyard data center is currently HP's most efficient data center.

    Did they add the cost to get the power, connectivity, equipment and personnel up there? And will they for more remote places when North America starts doing it?

    1. Re:Total cost by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Did they add the cost to get the power, connectivity, equipment and personnel up there?

      Up where? North-east England is not some remote wilderness. But it is cold.

    2. Re:Total cost by bloobloo · · Score: 5, Informative

      Up there? It's not in the wilds of the arctic. My office is about 4 miles away from the place, and there is a very nice pub next to it.

    3. Re:Total cost by thetoadwarrior · · Score: 2, Informative

      It's England, it's not exactly a struggle to cross the country in less than day so I'm not sure you can call any part of England remote wilderness.

    4. Re:Total cost by gbjbaanb · · Score: 1

      Its in Billingham, very near Middlesbrough. I'm only surprised they didn't put it nearer the coast, or further away from Middlesbrough.

    5. Re:Total cost by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      and there is a very nice pub next to it.

      A simple coincidence I'm sure

    6. Re:Total cost by houstonbofh · · Score: 1

      Did no one read the second sentence in my post?

    7. Re:Total cost by Sottilde · · Score: 2, Informative

      Also, they totally botched the definition of PUE - a PUE score of 1.2 means that for every 1.2 watts delivered to the data center, 1 watt of it goes directly into powering the equipment itself and is not maintenance money, like UPSs, cooling, battery backups, etc. So ~83% of power going in is used directly for the IT equipment itself. That's fantastic; the typical data center runs about 2.5 PUE.

    8. Re:Total cost by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      Did no one read the second sentence in my post?

      They all died trying.

    9. Re:Total cost by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I did, but I'm not sure what "And will they for more remote places when North America starts doing it?" means. Is that English?

    10. Re:Total cost by blackraven14250 · · Score: 0, Troll

      It's British, obviously.

    11. Re:Total cost by blackraven14250 · · Score: 1

      I'm still unclear on the definition. If a center has a PUE of 2.5, does that (still) mean 1 watt is used for equipment, with 1.5 watts going to support systems?

    12. Re:Total cost by xaxa · · Score: 1

      Did they add the cost to get the power, connectivity, equipment and personnel up there? And will they for more remote places when North America starts doing it?

      It's in a town, population 35k, near some much larger towns (surrounding area has population 1M). It's probably better connected to roads and railways than most towns that size in the USA. I could drive there from London in 412 hours (or 4 hours by train), but there will be plenty of demand from much nearer places.

      Power will be cheaper than in the south of England (to try and balance the load on the National Grid, many electricity-hungry factories are in the north). Connectivity isn't really an issue, it's only 250 miles from London, only 40 miles from Newcastle (pop. 800,000), and not far from undersea cables to Denmark, the Netherlands and Norway. Personnel will be cheaper than in the south of England, since the wages the banks in London can afford to pay distort things.

      I don't know where a similar place in North America would be. Halifax, NS?

  4. North sea has melted by johnw · · Score: 4, Funny

    Bad news for the story writer - global warming is so far advanced that the North Sea is no longer glaciated.

    And the land bridge between England and France has been swept away by the melt water!

    1. Re:North sea has melted by ZaMoose · · Score: 1

      It's from a .au site -- perhaps "glacial" means "arctic" or "frigid" in Native Aussie English?

      Just a guess.

      --
      I wish I had a kryptonite cross, because then you could keep Dracula and Superman away.
    2. Re:North sea has melted by iggymanz · · Score: 2, Insightful

      dang, the same thing happened here in North America, the native americans can't walk back to visit their relatives in Mongolia any more. They should have used some forsitght and done "cap and trade" instead of making all those carbon dioxide emitting cooking fires!

    3. Re:North sea has melted by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

      I think "glacial" in Native Aussie English means "too cold to fry an egg on the pavement".

    4. Re:North sea has melted by nedlohs · · Score: 2, Informative

      glacial - adj
      1. (Earth Sciences / Geological Science) characterized by the presence of masses of ice
      2. (Earth Sciences / Geological Science) relating to, caused by, or deposited by a glacier
      3. extremely cold; icy
      4. cold or hostile in manner a glacial look
      5. (Chemistry) (of a chemical compound) of or tending to form crystals that resemble ice glacial acetic acid
      6. very slow in progress a glacial pace

      Collins English Dictionary – Complete and Unabridged 6th Edition 2003. © William Collins Sons & Co. Ltd 1979, 1986 © HarperCollins Publishers 1991, 1994, 1998, 2000, 2003

  5. Glacial? by miasmic · · Score: 1

    While people who live in the North East of England would probably say the wind "were a bit chilly" most of the year, the nearest glaciers to Billingham would be in Norway, not exactly close enough to influence weather patterns...

    1. Re:Glacial? by Yetihehe · · Score: 1

      24C in England? It's hot!

      --
      Extreme Programming - Redundant Array of Inexpensive Developers
    2. Re:Glacial? by Threni · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Glacial obviously just means `cold`, in this context.

  6. Glacial... by fremsley471 · · Score: 2, Informative
    The mean annual ambient temperature outside the data-centre is about 9.5 C. Glacial, by definition, is an annual average below 0 C

    Source: http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/climate/uk/averages/ukmapavge.html#, although you'll have to do the last few clicks to get the correct chart.

  7. Using outside environment for AC. Nothing new. by nicknamenotavailable · · Score: 2, Informative

    What is so special about this?

    Toronto has been using water from lake Ontario to cool the downtown core for years.

  8. Maybe the Himalayas are next . . . ? by PolygamousRanchKid+ · · Score: 1

    . . . great views out your data center window . . . great opportunities for winter sports fans . . . oh, and did I mention the mountain climbing . . . ?

    --
    Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
    1. Re:Maybe the Himalayas are next . . . ? by JReykdal · · Score: 1

      . . . great views out your data center window . . . great opportunities for winter sports fans . . . oh, and did I mention the mountain climbing . . . ?

      Iceland is prepping for large datacenters with Artic AC systems :)

    2. Re:Maybe the Himalayas are next . . . ? by Wyatt+Earp · · Score: 1

      Alaska will be before the Himalayas.

      Theres talk about a big fibre project up here to connect the villages and hubs (Nome, Bethel, etc) fibre, cool weather and alot of NG for power would make for good data centers.

  9. Warm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So what happens when outside temperatures rise to above normal?

    1. Re:Warm by freedumb2000 · · Score: 1

      They have backup chillers.

  10. Hey, now heres a solution I can really get behind by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Data Center cooling solutions for the future!

    Park the servers in the arctic!

    I for one highly support this idea as it is not only incredibly efficient but since I live in Iqaluit(its on Baffin Island, in Canada) I might finally get that Fibre line I've always dreamed of!

    I've actually been doing something similar involving my gaming PC, patio door, insulation and air conduits. that -40c air makes for some great overclocking headroom! Plus the average 1-2% humidity means theres no measurable frost buildup on the PC internals either.

  11. Hyperbole before accuracy by ramjambam · · Score: 0, Troll

    A glacial wind comes of a glacier. That is a sea wind, a cool wind, a wind, but it is not a glacial wind. The English have never learned about real weather. There is always talk about arctic weather if the temperatures go below zero - arctic weather is in the region of minus 20 to minus 50. It is the north sea that gives temperate weather to Britain, keeps it warmer than continental areas at the same latitude. Ask the Russians!

    --
    Artificial Intelligence stands no chance against Natural Stupidity
    1. Re:Hyperbole before accuracy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      It could also mean a very slow-moving wind...

    2. Re:Hyperbole before accuracy by blackest_k · · Score: 1

      Actually I think you will find its the gulf stream which warms the UK and Ireland.

  12. For anyone else who thinks 24 deg sounds hot by monoi · · Score: 2, Interesting

    ...then this is an interesting read.

    1. Re:For anyone else who thinks 24 deg sounds hot by maxwell+demon · · Score: 1

      Note that the hard disk temperature is usually higher than the room temperature.

      --
      The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
    2. Re:For anyone else who thinks 24 deg sounds hot by afidel · · Score: 1

      75.2 isn't much hotter than I keep my datacenter where the setpoint is 72+2, ie the compressors run until they get the room to 72 and then don't kick in again till it gets to 74.

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
  13. Salt Spray? by b4upoo · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Air blowing over sea water usually contains quite a bit of salt. I wonder how they will deal with the salt. People who live on beach front homes are versed in repair costs to their homes and cars from salt ait.

    1. Re: Salt Spray? by rugatero · · Score: 2, Funny

      Given the site's proximity to Middlesbrough, I'm sure there will be plenty of local expertise in air filtration.

      --
      This comment is for entertainment purposes only. Any similarity to real insight or information is purely coincidental.
    2. Re: Salt Spray? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Air blowing over sea water usually contains quite a bit of salt. I wonder how they will deal with the salt.

      This is slashdot, where nobody RTFA, but it is really too much to ask that people RTF Summary?

      "The Wynyard takes in the cool air, filters it accordingly..."

      [emphasis mine]

    3. Re: Salt Spray? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They need to be more worried about the proximity to Hartlepool and what can happen to you if you happen to look a little bit foreign, possibly French, there ;-)

    4. Re: Salt Spray? by bobbozzo · · Score: 1

      Air blowing over sea water usually contains quite a bit of salt. I wonder how they will deal with the salt.

      This is slashdot, where nobody RTFA, but it is really too much to ask that people RTF Summary?

      "The Wynyard takes in the cool air, filters it accordingly..."

      [emphasis mine]

      Gee, thanks...

      HOW?

      --
      Nothing to see here; Move along.
    5. Re: Salt Spray? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wynyard is about 10-15 miles off the coast. Salt has never been a problem for any of us that live within 3-4 miles of the sea.

    6. Re: Salt Spray? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Duh. With filters.

  14. Air is not water. by NixieBunny · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Cooling with outside air is a bit trickier, since the temperature of the air changes much more quickly. We do this in the computer room of a radio telescope on a 3500m high mountaintop. The AC system has an "economizer" feature provided to cool with outside air, which has been modified to use proportional control to get a much more steady room temperature than the original bang-bang controller. That's needed to keep the analog signal levels from drifting too quickly and messing up the Dicke switching (go look that up). Not so important in a datacenter.

    --
    The determined Real Programmer can write Fortran programs in any language.
    1. Re:Air is not water. by murrdpirate · · Score: 2, Informative

      It's really not that tricky. All you need are temperature/humidity probes for the outdoor air and the return air and a control sequence that knows to use outdoor air instead of return air whenever the temp/humidity of the outdoor air is better. As you said, this is what an economizer does. There's nothing unusual about them, in fact they're required by code in many climates that have cool/dry air.

    2. Re:Air is not water. by DerekLyons · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It's not tricky with the bang-bang type of controller typical of consumer systems which are heating and cooling relatively tolerant loads like people. Where it gets tricky is where you need to maintain a steady state temperature and flow in order to avoid disruption of sensitive electronics.
       
      (IOW: I get really annoyed when slashdotters say "all you need is 'X'", without the slightest clue as to what the real requirements or complexities are.)

    3. Re:Air is not water. by Trepidity · · Score: 1

      Dicke switching (go look that up)

      With safesearch off, I'm not quite sure these are the right results...

    4. Re:Air is not water. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Erm, since when is 'slap on a PID controller' considered tricky?

    5. Re:Air is not water. by NixieBunny · · Score: 4, Insightful

      At 3500m altitude, even tying your shoelaces is tricky.

      --
      The determined Real Programmer can write Fortran programs in any language.
    6. Re:Air is not water. by zippthorne · · Score: 1

      Apparently, since manufacturers don't seem to be selling them. You can't even get one for electric resistance heating, where you'd think there'd be both a) motivation to keep the temperature from going too high above the target and b) the simplicity to make it almost trivial to install.

      --
      Can you be Even More Awesome?!
    7. Re:Air is not water. by murrdpirate · · Score: 1

      Well, I'm an HVAC engineer so I do have at least a slight clue. If the electronics require extremely precise control, then the A/C system will be tricky no matter what. Involving an economizer is not going to cause a giant leap in trickiness.

    8. Re:Air is not water. by DerekLyons · · Score: 1

      Well, I'm an HVAC engineer so I do have at least a slight clue

        Very slight as demonstrated by the statement you made.
       

      If the electronics require extremely precise control, then the A/C system will be tricky no matter what.

      Well, then maybe you should try reading what you replied to originally. If you had, then you'd have seen where they stated they required precise control.

    9. Re:Air is not water. by murrdpirate · · Score: 1

      What I'm saying is that the use of an economizer doesn't add much complexity to the system. If the A/C system requires precise control, then the control system will be complex whether you use an economizer or not. A data center load can easily fluctuate more than the outdoor air. Adding an economizer to an already complex system such as this does not add that much complexity. Talk to me about the issue if you want to talk. (IOW: I get really annoyed by immature dicks.)

  15. Gay Ninjas Get The Job Done (TM) (R) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Microsoft is proud to release:

    Gay Ninjas From Outer Space

  16. Global warming? by lordmatrix · · Score: 1

    Is it just me or does anyone else think that a great contributor to global warming is the method with which we create and consume power. We produce most of the electricity with steam and that steam needs to cool off before it can become steam again. They way that steam is cooled is either with water or surrounding air. Every nuclear reactor needs to be next to a river if the outside air is not cold enough. The river on which our reactor is built is 4C hotter after it passes the power plant because it's used to cool the steam. And that temperature increase is constant, all the time. Coal power plants do the same. Then, on the consumer side, we also convert much of that electricity into heat, with inefficient light bulbs, cars (thats why the engine needs a heatsink and a fan), electronic equipment, etc... If your computer uses 150W, thats 150W of heat output per hour. Human body outputs on average ~100Wh.

    1. Re:Global warming? by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Is it just me or does anyone else think that a great contributor to global warming is the method with which we create and consume power.

      Classic nerd joke: "This device consumes electricity and thus contributes to the heat death of the universe". Okay, maybe quotes are inappropriate, I don't recall the precise wording. Some scruz geeks stuck them on various items in homes and Uni buildings. An excellent warning label for microwaves, or really any electric heaters since we burn fuel for heat, make electricity from it, transfer it electrically, then turn it into heat again, with the predictable losses from repeated conversion. At least it's an effective way to transfer power.

      Everything we do that uses power is a contributor to global warming. Of course, we have known for quite some time that things we do which trap heat on the planet are a big problem, and that CO2 is a substance which does this; we also have long known that we produce orders of magnitude more than forces which are known to affect global climate, I specifically refer to volcanism. But it would be interesting to try to figure out which is more serious; the inefficiency which results in heat production, or the trapping of the heat.

      If your computer uses 150W, thats 150W of heat output per hour.

      Sure, if your computer uses 150W, pretty much all of that is dissipated as heat. But your monitor produces quite a bit of light. Of course, in an LCD, much of that also becomes heat; not just the inefficiency of making it, but also when the photons strike blacked-out (or just colored) cells in the LCD panel, since LCD is a subtractive display technology. CRTs are additive, but there's so much nonsense behind them that they work out to be less efficient anyway. Eagerly awaiting affordable LED displays...

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    2. Re:Global warming? by maxwell+demon · · Score: 1

      And of the light emitted by the monitor, almost all of it gets absorbed by the walls and other things in your room, and therefore also converted into heat. If you want to reduce that, you can put your monitor with the display towards the window, so that some of its light can leave the room and go directly into space. Of course that only works for clear sky (and only if you have a clear view to the sky, so cut that tree in front of your window!), so you better don't work when the weather is bad. :-)

      --
      The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
    3. Re:Global warming? by psycho12345 · · Score: 1

      Umm, hate to break it to you, but both creating and consuming power can't defy thermodynamics, specifically 2nd law.

    4. Re:Global warming? by timeOday · · Score: 1
      Actually, no, dissipated energy from power plants or computers is not what causes global warming. They are insignificant compared to the sun. What causes global warming is increased retention of solar energy in the atmosphere due to greenhouse gasses, such as methane and COs. Now, the river just downstream from a nuclear power plant can certainly be warmed thus changing that little bit of the environment quite drastically, but that is not "global" warming.

      As for this application specifically, even though it does expel heat into the air, it's much better than most data centers; they all eventually expel the heat into the air, but most of them use additional energy to power air conditioners, and that energy (or more importantly, the greenhouse gasses created producing that energy) go into the air too.

    5. Re:Global warming? by lordmatrix · · Score: 1

      Which part of my comment violates the 2nd law which says the thermal energy can only flow from hot to cold objects?

    6. Re:Global warming? by maxwell+demon · · Score: 1

      Is it just me or does anyone else think that a great contributor to global warming is the method with which we create and consume power.

      Yes. Especially the burning of fossil fuels. However, it's not the heat generated; that is negligible compared to the energy the sun delivers all the time. The problem is that the CO2 we release into the atmosphere reduces the amount of solar heat the earth can give back into space.

      We produce most of the electricity with steam and that steam needs to cool off before it can become steam again.

      It doesn't matter whether we use steam. Whenever we want to convert heat into work (and that is what all those power plants do, with the exception of wind power; it's BTW also what your car's motor does), we have to release some of the energy as heat into rthe environment again. That's just a consequence of the second law of thermodynamics. However, note that the heat released in that process is less than the heat produced by the original process (i.e. burning coal, or splitting atomic nuclei); the difference is the usable energy we get from the process.

      Now if we want to escape the second law of thermodynamics, we need to find ways to use the energy stored in the fuels without turning it into heat. For example, currently to make use of the energy released by the chemical reaction of carbon with oxygen, we simply burn the coal (which produces heat), and then we use a heat engine to convert part of that energy into usable energy (and the second law of thermodynamics tells us that at the very moment we turned the energy to heat, we already lost the ability to use all of it). If we would find a way to convert the chemical energy into electric energy without first converting it to heat, the second law of thermodynamics wouldn't come into play, and in principle we could get higher efficiencies than thermodynamics allows.

      Then, on the consumer side, we also convert much of that electricity into heat, with inefficient light bulbs, cars (thats why the engine needs a heatsink and a fan), electronic equipment, etc... If your computer uses 150W, thats 150W of heat output per hour. Human body outputs on average ~100Wh.

      The car needs a heat sink because it's a heat engine. It's the second law of thermodynamics striking again.
      Also note that the 100W are just the human output if you are doing nothing. As soon as you do physical work, the heat output grows.

      --
      The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
    7. Re:Global warming? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Now if we want to escape the second law of thermodynamics, we need to find ways to use the energy stored in the fuels without turning it into heat. .

      Errr. No

      You cannot get round the laws of thermodynamics by avoiding burning the fuel.

      The Laws of thermodynamics apply to all ways of converting energy stored in one form to energy in another form.
      Burning it or not burning it is irrelevant.

    8. Re:Global warming? by Tynin · · Score: 1

      If I remember my reading of what Maxwell's Demon was about, your description of venting light out your window so it doesn't become trapped heat in the house is remarkably close to it... and then to have that as your /. handle... great stuff :)

    9. Re:Global warming? by maxwell+demon · · Score: 1

      You cannot get round the laws of thermodynamics by avoiding burning the fuel.

      The Laws of thermodynamics apply to all ways of converting energy stored in one form to energy in another form.
      Burning it or not burning it is irrelevant.

      While strictly speaking the laws of thermodynamics of course apply everywhere, the second law of thermodynamics only restricts the conversion of heat into work.

      Here's the second law in all its glory:

      It is impossible to convert heat completely into work in a cyclic process.

      There are other formulations involving entropy, but given that heat is the only form of energy which is connected with entropy transfer, they are effectively equivalent.

      --
      The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
  17. Glacial Wind Heated by HP's New Data Center by noidentity · · Score: 1

    So in other words, HP's new data center is heating the glacial wind. That means... they're going to melt the glaciers!!!111!

  18. Not in TFA: It has a 12-foot raised floor by miller60 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The source article misses some of the coolest design features of this facility. It has the equivalent of a 12-foot high raised floor, using the entire lower level of the facility as a cooling plenum. The fans bring the cool North Sea air into the lower chamber, and they manage the pressure to direct the air up into the server area. There's also a Computerworld story with more details but an erroneous headline that suggests that it's the "first-ever" wind cooled data center. The story makes it clear that the facility has chillers as backup for when the wind dies down or air temperature doesn't support free cooling. Both Microsoft and Google are already running data centers with no on-site chillers.

    1. Re:Not in TFA: It has a 12-foot raised floor by twiddlingbits · · Score: 1

      It also didn't mention that EDS had this Data Center planned, designed and construction underway BEFORE the "merger" (aka purchase of EDS accounts not people) with HP. HP didn't know much about running Data Centers until they bought EDS, and now they are taking credit for the work done by EDS before HP bought them.

    2. Re:Not in TFA: It has a 12-foot raised floor by smartaleckkill · · Score: 1

      ya, EDS really knew how to run a data center--the terms 'incompetence' and 'corruption' spring to mind

    3. Re:Not in TFA: It has a 12-foot raised floor by twiddlingbits · · Score: 1

      Strong words, got proof? I'm sure some folks at HP and thier lawyers would like to discuss this with you.

    4. Re:Not in TFA: It has a 12-foot raised floor by smartaleckkill · · Score: 1

      a cursory glance at the mainstream UK news media will provide all the proof you need
      or parliamentary reports for that matter
      also guessing their lawyers are a bit busy coping with the billions of pounds of compensation claims against them
      though they did have a crooked labour peer in their pockets
      you could start here or here

    5. Re:Not in TFA: It has a 12-foot raised floor by twiddlingbits · · Score: 1

      I know the situation you mention, it was discussed here a while ago. In the USA it wouldn't be anything to take to court. As I recall all this "promise" was verbal and wasn't actually in the contracts. As I understand it there is also some blame to go towards SkyB, after all they SIGNED the contract with the different terms. In most countries a signed contract trumps any verbal agreement.I think SkyB have some people in thier pockets as well and there could also be some other vendors such as IBM "helping" out such that the contract gets re-awarded and they can win the next time. Pretty messy situation and unfortunately this crap is common when big money gets involved with big firms and big shot execs and lawyers. It DOES NOT mean EDS/HP as a whole is corrupt.

    6. Re:Not in TFA: It has a 12-foot raised floor by smartaleckkill · · Score: 1

      the situation singular? "EDS has been involved in a parade of government IT failures, budget overruns and data losses in recent years, including but not limited to the National Offender Management Information Service, the tax credits system, the Defence Information Infrastructure and the Child Support Agency." (the register)
      it took them years to actually stump up the £71.25mil to the govt after the tax creds disaster and even then only on condition of further govt contracts
      the parliamentary committee investigating their effed up ministry of defence system described it as 'catastrophic' and their mistakes as 'truly reprehensible'
      as for corruption, there's the crooked peer, and the string of their lawyers involved in assorted scandals
      this of course is EDS, not HP--one would hope things will improve, especially now that they'll be running the new gchq 'big brother' system to monitor each and every online communication
      not just bashing for the sake of it, in all honesty as a british citizen their relationship with the govt & manner of conducting business really worries me--you won't find many EDS fans in the UK

  19. Turn the servers 90 by Colin+Smith · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Servers are N Units high. Most are 2 or 3 units. So why lie them flat and try to force air front to back when it wants to rise?

    Rotate the servers 90 so they are vertical and leave an approx 1U air gap between them.

    And while we're reconfiguring the shape of rack servers. Please put the network ports, console ports at the front, the power ports at the back.
     

    --
    Deleted
    1. Re:Turn the servers 90 by afidel · · Score: 1

      Because the fans and heatsinks are designed to work in a certain orientation? It's not like convection will move much air (G4 cube comes to mind, even with a big volume it was barely kept in design limits). Oh and I HATE rackmount stuff with front network ports, means I have to use a 1U blanking panel and cut holes for the cables since the racks are all designed for normal equipment. The exception of course is switches where having the ports in front makes sense, but those go into a different kind of rack with front patch management.

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
    2. Re:Turn the servers 90 by evilviper · · Score: 1

      So why lie them flat and try to force air front to back when it wants to rise?

      A) You don't want 10% of the servers at the bottom getting ice build-up, while 20% at the top are about to burst into flames... Feeding the output from one server to the input of another is a bad idea.

      B) It would be a horribly inefficient use of space to have your server taking up 0.5 meters vertically, and sprawling out across the floor.

      C) Convection is horrendously weak. A little fan blowing horizontally probably provides 1,000 times as much pressure. And with low-pressure, and low volume, you need much larger cavities to cool well enough.

      D) We already DO use convection... Cold air is piped through the floor, and hot air is removed from intakes in the ceiling.

      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
  20. Not a new concept by stickytar · · Score: 1

    We have been doing this in Montana for a long time. When the AC units get frozen over we start pumping filtered air from the outside into the server room.

    --
    believing the big bang requires a certain amount of supernatural faith
  21. HP Blows... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    As an HP employee I have to say HP sucks donkey balls. They treat their employees like crap giving out 3 pay cuts last year while the executive board hands themselves massive bonuses. So, in short be kind and don't purchase any products from HP.

    Thanks-

    1. Re:HP Blows... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It was one paycut, and it was refunded at the end of the year.

    2. Re:HP Blows... by pclminion · · Score: 1

      In other words, try to hurt your company and make it even less successful, thereby ensuring that your workday blows even harder than it already does? Uh... okay, if that's what you want...

  22. cold wind 24x7? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I wonder if cold wind will be enough............considering it wont blow 24x7

  23. Al Gore was right by nurb432 · · Score: 1

    Man really is causing global warming.

    All those x64 boxes would make the planet Mercury look like a winter wonderland. Now, if they just switched to ARM chips.....

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    ---- Booth was a patriot ----
  24. I wonder if it will still work, when... by Hurricane78 · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    ...the gulf stream goes back to its normal route via Europe...

    I hope it does not only work because of the current exceptionally cold situation.

    That would be a *DOH* of epic propotions. ;)

    --
    Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
    1. Re:I wonder if it will still work, when... by Hurricane78 · · Score: 1

      Hey moderidiots! This was a serious question! Not a flamebait!

      So stop assuming everyone is an ass, just because you are a angry pessimist!

      We should really only give mod points to people, who got any empathic competence.
      But I guess, here at Slashdot, that would come down to the handful of people who actually got a woman/gf. ;)

      --
      Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
  25. go all the way by ascari · · Score: 1

    Guess it's a step in the right direction though, but really not that exciting all in all. I mean cooling by means of cold breeze, BFD. Instead of stopping at using the cold air to cool those racks they should take the full step and figure out a way to re-use the heat energy. Maybe some kind of thermocouple or Peltier system that takes advantage of the temperature difference between the hot server room and the "glacial winds". Or some kind of heat pump arrangement. Now that would be cool, pardon the pun.

  26. Artic my a$$ by viking80 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I live across the north sea from the datacenter in a place called Norway. Where this ice cold wind supposedly blows from, and it aint here. As has been well known since the vikings raided that part of England, the winds actually blows *from* England *to* Norway 95% of the time. And here in Norway, it is a warm wet wind blowing from England, and it dumps a lot of rain in western Norway. The result is that even at 61 deg north, the winters are mostly rain, not snow. And in the summers, the ocean temperature is higher than Santa Cruz, CA. Compare that to Anchorage, AK at same latitude!

    --
    don't cut it off www.mgmbill.org
    1. Re:Artic my a$$ by apoc.famine · · Score: 1

      I'd mod you up if I hadn't posted already. As someone studying oceans and climate, I never cease to be amazed by how much the ocean currents mess with localized climate. I'm in the northern US, going to school with some Danish kids. For being substantially further south, they're getting their asses kicked by winter here.

      It's far colder in the winter here, and far warmer in the summer. Mid-continent is no place for anyone to want to live.

      --
      Velociraptor = Distiraptor / Timeraptor
    2. Re:Artic my a$$ by xaxa · · Score: 1

      Wait 'till you meet some English kids. We think Denmark is cold!

  27. warming /=/ cooling ???? by FragHARD · · Score: 1

    Seems like a great way to actually warm the globe up to counteract this global warming(which is actually cooling).... but then again all this change of climate(seasons) would seem to be normal, as the weather usually does not stay the same! through the week, year, century, or millennium.

    BTW Personally I think algore is a lying profiteer, but that's my opinion... or I could be like algore and say it is a proven fact ;)

    --
    FragHARD or don't frag at all
    1. Re:warming /=/ cooling ???? by prof+alan · · Score: 1

      Why is it that, every time there is a story about energy saving measures (which, after all, is what this story is about) someone comes out with the old canard about how the world is cooling really?

    2. Re:warming /=/ cooling ???? by FragHARD · · Score: 1

      Why you ask?....Hmmmm let me think about that ..... thinking.... Oh that's right this is slashdot! In the first place I didn't read the story in it's entirety, I was responding to fellow slashdotters including yourself ;) And why is it when someone posts a text disagreeing with the so-called 'facts' in weather trends(which look more like a giant work of hyperbole) they get deemed a provider deceptions? Was it because I said something about the honorable MR Albert Arnold Gore that you thought wasn't accurate??? Talk about a provider of deceptions...'an inconvenient truth' yeah right,what a crock... more like 'a convenient canard' has a better ring to it anyways ;)

      And remember this is slashdot ;) Have fun!!!

      --
      FragHARD or don't frag at all
    3. Re:warming /=/ cooling ???? by Slashcrap · · Score: 1

      Why you ask?....Hmmmm let me think about that ..... thinking.... Oh that's right this is slashdot! In the first place I didn't read the story in it's entirety, I was responding to fellow slashdotters including yourself ;) And why is it when someone posts a text disagreeing with the so-called 'facts' in weather trends(which look more like a giant work of hyperbole) they get deemed a provider deceptions? Was it because I said something about the honorable MR Albert Arnold Gore that you thought wasn't accurate??? Talk about a provider of deceptions...'an inconvenient truth' yeah right,what a crock... more like 'a convenient canard' has a better ring to it anyways ;)

      And remember this is slashdot ;) Have fun!!!

      You are either 12 years old, or your brain is broken. Either way, fuck off.

  28. Chris Benoit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    He became an hero.

  29. "Glacial?" by Retron · · Score: 1

    Glacial? Well, the North Sea off NE England is around 6C at the moment but that's not what I'd call glacial. Last summer (not exactly a "scorcher") it reached 15C, the year before, 16C.
    All of this ignores the obvious problem that the prevailing wind over the UK is a SW'ly - and thus the cooling from the sea won't really happen except in summer when sea breezes set in. Indeed, in the winter coastal areas are often warmer than inland. The recent easterlies and NE'lies over England recently have been pretty unusual, all caused by the jet stream being far to the south of usual (it's normally between Scotland and Iceland, but currently it's blasting over the Canaries and the Sahara!)

  30. Glacial? by prof+alan · · Score: 1
    I suppose it could be said to be a glacial wind if it is from the North East, and thus blowing from Norway. After all the nearest glaciers in that direction are only 700km away...

    I note, however, that the link is to an Australian site, so by their standards it is pretty cold in this part of the world.

  31. All the hype by MrKaos · · Score: 1

    There is so much hot air in data centers these days.

    --
    My ism, it's full of beliefs.