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Nintendo Wins Lawsuit Over R4 Mod Chip Piracy

schliz writes "The Federal Court has ordered an Australian distributor to pay Nintendo over half a million dollars for selling the R4 mod chip, which allows users to circumvent technology protection measures in Nintendo's DS consoles. The distributor, RSJ IT Solutions, has been ordered to cease selling the chip through its gadgetgear.com.au site and any other sites it controls, as well as paying Nintendo $520,000 in damages."

146 comments

  1. TPM? by bbqsrc · · Score: 1

    I'd like it if anyone could find "technical protection measure" actually defined within any Australian law.

    Seriously, I don't think it's defined anywhere, and I'm sure that's grounds for appeal.

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    1. Re:TPM? by jayke · · Score: 2, Informative

      Depending on the system, definitions can be found outside of the actual legal text. In some systems there is extensive documentation outside of the actual legal text, often based on the prepatory work that was conducted before passing the law. In other systems definitions and specifics are left to the courts, while in other systems the legal texts are extremely detailed.

      All of the above systems have their pro's and their con's, but to my knowledge there are very few modern legal systems where you would expect everything you need to know to be located in the actual legal text of the law in questions.

    2. Re:TPM? by bbqsrc · · Score: 2, Interesting

      But by that logic, couldn't you simply state that the entire system is a technical protection measure, and that by using anything with it that is unlicensed by $company is suddenly breaking the law? That seems to be what happened here.

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    3. Re:TPM? by Farmer+Tim · · Score: 4, Informative

      I'd like it if anyone could find "technical protection measure" actually defined within any Australian law.

      Copyright Act, here and here.

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    4. Re:TPM? by bbqsrc · · Score: 1

      Thanks :D

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    5. Re:TPM? by mwvdlee · · Score: 1

      It most obviously does NOT mean "technical measures which protects from running unauthorized code", because then the R4 wouldn't exist.

      Any law defining "technical protection measure" must, by necessity, define that such measures are in fact not protecting anything.

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    6. Re:TPM? by rjch · · Score: 2, Informative

      Never mind the "technical protection measure". There's enough precedent alone for an appeal...

    7. Re:TPM? by jimicus · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It most obviously does NOT mean "technical measures which protects from running unauthorized code", because then the R4 wouldn't exist.

      If there was such a thing as a 100% reliable technical protection measure, there would be no need for such a law to exist.

    8. Re:TPM? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      It most obviously does NOT mean "technical measures which protects from running unauthorized code", because then the R4 wouldn't exist.

      If there was such a thing as a 100% reliable technical protection measure, there would be no need for such a law to exist.

      Most laws exist without any need for them.

    9. Re:TPM? by HeronBlademaster · · Score: 1

      I dunno... I'd be willing to wager that the majority of these laws were made as a direct result of an actual incident.

  2. Games from different regions? by aussie_a · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The distributor advises consumers to use their modification devices for legal reasons only, such as playing legal copies of games from different regions

    Wait, what? I thought handhelds (both the Gameboy Advance, Nintendo DS and PSP) weren't region-locked, but were in fact region-free. This allows people to play games from any region without having to resort to "chipping" their devices (which can often cause permanent damage). If the Nintendo DS is region-free, how could this be a legal purpose for this device? Or is it, in fact, region-locked?

    1. Re:Games from different regions? by bbqsrc · · Score: 4, Interesting

      This article seems rather flawed. R4 is a cartridge that takes micro-SDHC cards that could use homebrew applications on your DS. The DS is not region-locked whatsoever. They're evidently attempting to apply previous understanding of consoles to this one and falling rather short.

      This is also not the only homebrew cartridge available for the DS, and by far not the best, but probably the most well known. I bought one so I could use emulators and DSLinux :)

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    2. Re:Games from different regions? by Shrike82 · · Score: 3, Informative

      Apparently the DS is region free so that's one legal defense out the window.

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    3. Re:Games from different regions? by KronicD · · Score: 1

      Yeah, thats the legal protection most mod chip providers use in Australia. I got myself through uni by modding consoles and working helpdesk. I never touched a region free console like the DS or PSP, for this exact reason.

      --
      "Those who would give up Essential Liberty, to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety"
    4. Re:Games from different regions? by Zedrick · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Only one legal defence should be needed: I have the right to do whatever I want with stuff I've bought.

      Luckily I live in a free country where I'm able to do that (and buy/sell modchips for whatever purpose) - at least for now.

    5. Re:Games from different regions? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sure you do but profiting off it is another matter.

    6. Re:Games from different regions? by mustafap · · Score: 3, Insightful

      >Sure you do but profiting off it is another matter.

      I hope you don;t mean that.

      If I buy object "a", and create useful additions to that object, I bloody well should be able to profit from it.

      If the leased me the DS then it would be a different matter. But I purchased it, so I shouldn't be considered a criminal if I hack it, paint it, blow it up, whatever. It's now mine, and my business what I do with it.

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    7. Re:Games from different regions? by ShakaUVM · · Score: 1

      >>Only one legal defence should be needed: I have the right to do whatever I want with stuff I've bought.

      Indeed. The doctrine of First Sale is rolling over in its grave.

    8. Re:Games from different regions? by Shrike82 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I do agree (partially) with what you say in principle, but it's not quite that black and white. If you buy a gun you're not free to remove the serial number, nor are you free to fire it indiscriminantly into the air. If you buy a car you're not free to add a nitrous system to it if you want to drive it on the street. You buy a house you're not free to add a massive extension without permission. Life is full of these little rules that are there for good reason.

      I'm sure Nintendo don't really care if you crack open your DS and start playing about with it. They do care if you crack it open, modify it to circumvent their security and start playing pirated games on it. Similarly, they're obviously very concerned about a device that, let's face it, is used almost entirely for playing pirated games.

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    9. Re:Games from different regions? by MindlessAutomata · · Score: 1

      To be fair, it was the best at one point in time, for a good while, too.

    10. Re:Games from different regions? by Threni · · Score: 1

      > I'm sure Nintendo don't really care if you crack open your DS and start playing about with it. They do care if you crack it open, modify it to circumvent their security and start playing pirated
      > games on it.

      They also care if people do homebrew stuff, because if that were legal, it wouldn't be just individuals who'd write games for it; it'd be large companies. It's exactly what Codemasters did with the Megadrive and SNES. Nintendo (etc) make money from publishers if the publishers go through the official channels; they get to approve content, test for quality etc - and charge for it. All that goes out of the window if companies can release what they want.

    11. Re:Games from different regions? by MBGMorden · · Score: 1

      Homebrew software is a major component. Before you laugh, I'll affirm that pretty much the only reason I modded my original Xbox was for running homebrew software - most specifically XBMC. I've since switched to using Boxee running on an AppleTV, but there are people who will want to run homebrew software on their devices, and on a video game system that usually requires a mod-chip.

      --
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    12. Re:Games from different regions? by LKM · · Score: 4, Informative

      I think the gun comparison is interesting. You can legally buy a gun, but you're not allowed to shoot people with it (usually). Likewise, it should be okay to buy an R4, and illegal to use it for piracy. And there actually are valid reasons for owning an R4.

    13. Re:Games from different regions? by xtracto · · Score: 1

      I bought one so I could use emulators and DSLinux :)

      You mean, using emulators to play illegal ROM copies of games?

      Just FYI, in the case of these DS carts, they are in principle all illegal because the contain a segment of an illegal copy of a game. Not only that, but illegally distributing this game segment and profiting with it.

      Don't get me wrong, I got a CycloDS Evolution which is really nice (I develop homebrew for myself [dual n-back and a translator]. But it is always good to have a reality check.

      --
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    14. Re:Games from different regions? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The R4 is used entirely for counterfeiting and piracy. There is very little legitimate use, and such people using the item legitimately, would not be crying foul of this.

      You can buy counterfeit games off eBay and the like which are simply R4's with stickers on them. These appear on eBay hundreds of times per day, from sellers in Hong Kong and South Korea, where piracy is the rule.

    15. Re:Games from different regions? by thelanranger · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      But someone like MS would include a tricky license agreement with the product which says something like "By opening this box you agree that you did not actually purchase this hardware but are only leasing it indefinitely from Microsoft Corporation" blah blah blah which allows them to break it remotely or take it back from you if you harm it.

    16. Re:Games from different regions? by geminidomino · · Score: 3, Insightful

      So GP posts to a site about a homebrew/indie game to give an example of a reason to legitimately own an R4 (or similar device) and you come back with "The R4 used entirely for counterfeiting and piracy?"

      Do you work for Nintendo's PR department, or are you just functionally illiterate? And if there is a legitimate use (even if it is, as you claim "Very little") then why the hell would those who use it as such NOT cry foul at the sale of the device being banned?

    17. Re:Games from different regions? by Shrike82 · · Score: 1

      Well I totally agree with you on this. Legitimate homebrew is a totally valid use of a piece of hardware, and should be encouraged. It's just an unfortunate thing that enabling homebrew usually also opens the door for piracy. Some decent API's and a support system from Nintendo would help them, and homebrewers, by eliminating the "I was just doing homebrew" argument from real pirates. For once Microsoft actually have the right idea (sort of) with this, and their efforts to allow people to make their own games and stuff. Holy crap, praise for Microsoft. What's the world coming to?

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    18. Re:Games from different regions? by Shrike82 · · Score: 0, Troll

      Yeah I totally agree, but the fact remains that the R4 is pretty much used exclusively to pirate games. I know three people that have them and none of them use it for anything except playing downloaded ROMs. Maybe my sample is biased, but I suspect it's probably not. If there were an easy (read that as monetarily cheap and fast) way to punish just those people using it for piracy then I'm sure Nintendo would prefer to do that. I guess their point is that people are making money of a device than can, in theory, be used for legal reasons but is in fact being used almost toally for piracy.

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    19. Re:Games from different regions? by jedidiah · · Score: 2, Insightful

      This nonsense is why I never used an xbox as an HTPC. Although I used a hacked AppleTV in this capacity for awhile.

      Then cheaper, open, PC hardware surpassed both of those "consoles".

      Still, being able to do what I want with those physical things that I own
      can be very handy and can add value to "appliances". The notion that you
      assume by default that such hacks are only for piracy is fundementaly
      anti-democratic.

      --
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    20. Re:Games from different regions? by Wumpus · · Score: 2, Informative

      I have an R4 which I use to load my own code to the DS. I never used it to play pirated ROMs. The R4 does have legitimate uses as a development tool.

    21. Re:Games from different regions? by ShakaUVM · · Score: 1

      But someone like MS would include a tricky license agreement with the product which says something like "By opening this box you agree that you did not actually purchase this hardware but are only leasing it indefinitely from Microsoft Corporation" blah blah blah which allows them to break it remotely or take it back from you if you harm it.

      In the EU, at least, that's illegal.

      They have a doctrine of customer rights or something (I can't recall what it's called) which actually stops a lot of the bullshit that we have to deal with from companies that want to sell us stuff but not really.

    22. Re:Games from different regions? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So what's the best now, and how is it better than the R4?

      BTW, GP is slightly incorrect. The R4 only takes regular SD cards (up to 2GB), not SDHC. There's a later version (R4 Plus or R4 SDHC or something) that takes SDHC cards.

    23. Re:Games from different regions? by LordVader717 · · Score: 1

      There are loads of DS card-readers out there that will let you run homebrew code. Even Datel made one. But the reason why they go after the R4 (and also the reason why the card is so popular in the first place) is because there are always updates so that the latest and greatest games work.
      Just downloaded a ROM that doesn't work? Head over to their website and download the latest firmware. Now tell me they're not about Piracy.

    24. Re:Games from different regions? by Hatta · · Score: 3, Informative

      There's a couple of reasons. First, homebrew. You can use your DS as a decent MP3 player, or even video player (with transcoding). There are also apps to take notes, read ebooks, etc. etc. There's even a handy scrabble dictionary, and some homebrew games available. (Amazingly, Quake runs pretty well on the DS.) A French court recently ruled that flash carts were legal for homebrew purposes.

      There's also convenience. It's just easier to carry one card with your entire collection of DS games instead of juggling a dozen carts when you travel.

      That said, there's plenty of illicit uses for such a device as well.

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    25. Re:Games from different regions? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Here, troll, have some food.

      I used my R4 for a bookreader when I owned a DS.
      Most of the handheld games were boring as sin.
      I have a couple of old SNES carts laying around in a box at home.

      I tried the SNES emulator on the thing, with ROMs of those games (pre-dumped -- not pretentious enough to build or buy my own dumper) and was sorely disappointed.

      So I went back to reading books.

      If anything, the R4, M3, CycloDS, etc. are all guilty of enabling me to pirate books.
      Not sports pages.
      Not magazines.
      Books.

    26. Re:Games from different regions? by Hatta · · Score: 1

      CycloDS is best now. The major improvement I'm aware of is save state support. Personally, I don't think that's worth the premium. ($50 vs $7 for a TTDS).

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    27. Re:Games from different regions? by Midnight+Thunder · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I have an R4 which I use to load my own code to the DS. I never used it to play pirated ROMs. The R4 does have legitimate uses as a development tool.

      From my experience you are probably amongst the exceptions. I always find it odd that while the DS is one of the biggest selling consoles and ranks high in sales charts, its games don't - I don't whether this is due to the impact of the R4 or some other factor that I am not taking into consideration.

      It would be nice to see lower priced games for the DS, especially a good number of them seem to have had the same development effort as some of the games for the iPod Touch.

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    28. Re:Games from different regions? by rattaroaz · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If I buy object "a", and create useful additions to that object, I bloody well should be able to profit from it.

      I hope you don't mean that. If your rights interfere in a corporation's ability to make money in even a theoretical, possible, not necessarily plausible way, you no longer have any more rights. Now, if you were a multi-billion dollar corporation, then okay, your statement is accurate.

    29. Re:Games from different regions? by suomynonAyletamitlU · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I'm not entirely up to speed on the whole thing, but I think that that mentality (which frankly is pretty stuck on itself in the first place) is upset when the company provides a service, such as online play; if your unauthorized additions may cause tremendous upset in online play, such as by allowing hacking in online play, then those people are detrimental to the future of your platform, not merely game sales.

      You see it a lot in online games on the PC; in order to prevent cheating on multiplayer, they have to have draconian addons running in the background to monitor for hacks, memory viewers/editors, etc. These systems are also themselves imperfect and have in many cases caused PCs to crash, etc. I don't for a moment believe that popularity of gaming on the console as opposed to PC is unrelated to this. Frankly, the existence of a console that it is forbidden to mod is also the reason why they don't have crippling DRM; they simply assume that a cartridge is either good or it isn't, and that's that.

      So by all means, force them to implement harsher and harsher restrictions in software merely so that they can keep their platform's reputation and game sales. What possible repercussions could there be?

    30. Re:Games from different regions? by OrangeTide · · Score: 1

      what does profit have to do with it?

      if you bought it, you should be able to sell it.

      obviously with things that can be copied, you shouldn't be allowed to sell or give it away more than once without permission. hence copyright being a right to copy.
      but physical stuffs, great. I should be able to buy a lawnmower, bore out the engine and add a turbo charger, and sell it. or sell a kit to extend your lawn mower into a string trimmer(weed wacker), even if the company that makes the lawn mowers also makes string trimmers.

      buy companies that make electronic gizmos or license copyright material get to play by different (and unfair) rules.

      --
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    31. Re:Games from different regions? by thetoadwarrior · · Score: 1

      I think they're making assumptions. There is most likely some sort of protection on DS games but not for different regions.

      The one exception is if it's a DSI specific game then it will have region protection.

    32. Re:Games from different regions? by thetoadwarrior · · Score: 1

      DSI only games have region protection. If the R4 is used for those then they have a point.

    33. Re:Games from different regions? by thetoadwarrior · · Score: 1

      You don't have the right to own and play the whole Nintendo DS library on your DS for the cost of an R4 cart.

    34. Re:Games from different regions? by MadChicken · · Score: 2, Informative

      What? You do know the R4 has an SD slot, and it's not a sealed flash cartridge. It would be super easy to tell them apart.

      I have an R4. All of my games personally dumped from games I own (NDS Backup Wi-Fi Tool rules), but some of the better games are 100% homebrew - VideoGame Hero and DScent are two that I really enjoy.

      So "entirely for counterfeiting and piracy"? My lone personal example proves you 100% wrong. Thanks for shopping.

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    35. Re:Games from different regions? by MadChicken · · Score: 1

      "The fact remains that the moon is made of cheese."

      See? I can reason like that too!

      (Someone needs to look up what "exclusively" means).

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    36. Re:Games from different regions? by MadChicken · · Score: 1

      I got the R4 because it was ridiculously cheap.

      Just running ROMs doesn't necessarily mean piracy.

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    37. Re:Games from different regions? by Sparton · · Score: 1

      They're evidently attempting to apply previous understanding of consoles to this one and falling rather short.

      My first knee-jerk reaction as well, but not entirely true. DS titles that are sold in stores are region free. Downloadable titles (ie DSiWare) are region locked.

    38. Re:Games from different regions? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's what I thought too, as does the place I got my R4. From their website:

      Modchips are not illegal in Australia. If modchips were illegal we would not be selling them. Contact a lawyer in your country if you want to know if modchips are illegal in your country, it is your resposibility to know your local law.

      Like many things modchips have legal and illegal uses. We are not lawyers and would not assume to offer legal advice if you want to know what constitutes legal and illegal activities regarding the use of modchips please contact a lawyer. But have piece of mind that owning and/or installing a modchip is not illegal in Australia, the day that modchips become illegal in Australia is the day that this website is shut down. So if you are reading this, it must mean that modchips are not illegal in Australia.

      Expect to see this appealed. I know they were definately legal back in the Xbox & PS2 modding days, can anyone remember the case that established their legality?

    39. Re:Games from different regions? by Nazlfrag · · Score: 1

      Everything you say has laws about that. When I brought my R4 and installed only hombrew on it (this is not hypothetical BTW) what law did I break? Is the Precrime bureau going to nab me for potential piracy? More importantly, what crime did the distributor commit?

    40. Re:Games from different regions? by earthforce_1 · · Score: 1

      So I need permission from Intel and/or Microsoft to purchase a Linux distro or 3rd party hardware for my PC?

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    41. Re:Games from different regions? by Shrike82 · · Score: 1

      Yes, except your statement is hyperbole, and mine is an educated assertion. I know damn well what exclusively means, and the qualifier "pretty much" reduces it from being a synonym for "totally" or "only" to something slightly less. I suspect that it's actually you that needs the English lesson.

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    42. Re:Games from different regions? by Shrike82 · · Score: 1

      You've commited no crime. The distributor has (apparently) commited the crime of supplying equipment for circumventing security protection on the DS. Just because it can be used legally doesn't mean it is, and a minority of people using it for legal purposes doesn't erase fact that it's most commonly going to be used for breaking the law.

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    43. Re:Games from different regions? by sonicmerlin · · Score: 1

      I'm sorry, what? DS games don't sell well? Are you mad? Top ten Nintendo DS games. * Nintendogs All versions (22.27 million)[70] * New Super Mario Bros. (21.39 million)[69] * Brain Age: Train Your Brain in Minutes a Day! (18.59 million)[69] * Pokémon Diamond and Pearl (17.39 million)[69] * Mario Kart DS (17.28 million)[69] * Brain Age 2: More Training in Minutes a Day! (13.71 million)[70] * Animal Crossing: Wild World (10.79 million)[71] * Super Mario 64 DS (7.5 million)[71] * Pokémon Platinum (6.39 million)[69] * Mario Party DS (5.85 million)[70]

    44. Re:Games from different regions? by Nazlfrag · · Score: 1

      Well they can screw themselves if they think the distributor commited a crime. It is used legally and should be sold, as are kitchen knives and balaclavas. Is it time to lock up the locksmiths as well?

    45. Re:Games from different regions? by laughingcoyote · · Score: 1

      It's your mentality that has the problem. Being disruptive to a business model is not and should not be against the law, and no one can "force" them to implement anything. They may choose to do so, or not, just like I can choose to buy their stuff, or not. If they're implementing overly harsh protection, and I can't easily get past it, the likely answer is "I'll pass". What they shouldn't be able to do is prevent one from making modifications to a physical device which one purchased outright. If you sell me a piece of physical property, it is now mine. That means I may use, abuse, modify, reverse engineer, decompile, disassemble, fold, spindle, mutilate, and whatever the hell else I might want to do with it. You can certainly void the warranty and refuse to offer support if I do such things, but you shouldn't be in any way able to stop me.

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    46. Re:Games from different regions? by suomynonAyletamitlU · · Score: 1

      It's your mentality that has the problem. Being disruptive to a business model is not and should not be against the law, and no one can "force" them to implement anything.

      I don't entirely agree with the concept that businesses are entities in the view of the law, but you're making a strong case why they should be. If going out of your way to make your neighbor lose money or sanity via harassment, assault, theft, stalking, or just by criminal negligence , is illegal--and well it ought to be--then doing so to a business is equally heinous, irrespective of whether you are a direct competitor or just an average Joe.

      That doesn't by any means suggest that they should be allowed to harass, assault, steal from, stalk, or be negligent to you, either.

      What they shouldn't be able to do is prevent one from making modifications to a physical device which one purchased outright. If you sell me a piece of physical property, it is now mine. That means I may use, abuse, modify, reverse engineer, decompile, disassemble, fold, spindle, mutilate, and whatever the hell else I might want to do with it. You can certainly void the warranty and refuse to offer support if I do such things, but you shouldn't be in any way able to stop me.

      That doesn't make any sense, for one specific reason: any modification, and in particular reverse engineering, has the potential to amount to industrial espionage in a way that there is no feasible way to contractually forbid (except by EULA). They spent millions of dollars making a system like that--when nobody else would have or could have--gathered the people necessary to create a market, found exactly the right combination of everything involved, and then someone with your mindset comes in, provides the plans that took millions of dollars to produce, and churns it out with a couple hundred bucks of R&D in total, maybe a few thousand if you count lost hours of productivity. You are technically capable of distributing these plans to the lowest bidder or even for free, at which point equivalent but significantly cheaper hardware could undercut the company. If this were a person instead of a company, they'd have you in chains, because you just stole millions of dollars from them.

      Is the US likely to spawn such a cutthroat market? Well, it's no Russia or China, and frankly the law favors business interests too much to jeopardize the entire IP market like that. In the end, those millions in hardware design have to come from somewhere, and whoever invests is going to be expecting ROI--in other words, if it stops being an investment, there will be no capital for innovators, and we WILL be a China in the sense that we won't be producing our own designs.

      I mean, I get your point, I do. But it seems more like, "I should be able to get away with anything as long as I'm alone in my house, no matter who I hurt with it." Yeah, it's right there in your hands, you own it. But you only own the last .01% of the process that went into making it, and the money you payed goes into paying off the rest. If you screw with that by whatever means, after all they went through to get it to your door, then they get mad, and that's not unreasonable. That's all I'm saying.

    47. Re:Games from different regions? by laughingcoyote · · Score: 1

      I don't entirely agree with the concept that businesses are entities in the view of the law, but you're making a strong case why they should be. If going out of your way to make your neighbor lose money or sanity via harassment, assault, theft, stalking, or just by criminal negligence , is illegal--and well it ought to be--then doing so to a business is equally heinous, irrespective of whether you are a direct competitor or just an average Joe.

      Ermmm? Businesses go out of their way to make one another lose money all the time, and I might do so by, for example, advocating a boycott. Businesses aren't people (don't particularly care what the Supreme Court said), and they are not entitled to the human rights that my neighbor is. That being said, it's not illegal for me to modify property I purchase from my neighbor, either. What you're suggesting is an even higher standard for businesses, that has nothing to do with assault, theft, criminal negligence (really?) or any other crime.

      That doesn't by any means suggest that they should be allowed to harass, assault, steal from, stalk, or be negligent to you, either.

      I'm sure millions of Windows users will be glad to hear that they will no longer need to deal with the forced installation of "genuine advantage" (or whatever they call it these days). Forced phoning home, harassment of the user (in many cases inaccurately), even the ability to remotely kill the system? Sounds like harassment to me. Of course, because of crap like that, I make them lose money-I don't use their operating system at all. Send the cops, I use an operating system no one at all gets paid for!

      That doesn't make any sense, for one specific reason: any modification, and in particular reverse engineering, has the potential to amount to industrial espionage in a way that there is no feasible way to contractually forbid (except by EULA). They spent millions of dollars making a system like that--when nobody else would have or could have--gathered the people necessary to create a market, found exactly the right combination of everything involved, and then someone with your mindset comes in, provides the plans that took millions of dollars to produce, and churns it out with a couple hundred bucks of R&D in total, maybe a few thousand if you count lost hours of productivity. You are technically capable of distributing these plans to the lowest bidder or even for free, at which point equivalent but significantly cheaper hardware could undercut the company. If this were a person instead of a company, they'd have you in chains, because you just stole millions of dollars from them.

      You've every right to try to make money. You've no right to succeed at it. If what you're selling is essentially a commodity, that can be easily replicated by anyone, you'd best factor that into your business plan. Your failure to do so is not "theft" on my part, it's poor planning on yours. And in fact, reverse engineering to make compatible equipment is actually one of the very few things the US DMCA did have the sense to allow. That's actually been upheld many times.

      The Chamberlain case there is one that's easily on point for this, as is Lexmark. It does not matter a bit that your business model is to sell these garage door openers which can be circumvented, or that it's to sell printers cheap and gouge for ink. In both cases, someone can make something that interoperates with your item, even if it undercuts that model. Failure to plan for inevitabilities on your part should lead to a smack to the back of the head, not legal protection. And, yes, in a capitalist system, someone competing with you and trying to undercut you is an inevitability. To try and have that not happen is not capitalism, it's effectively c

      --
      To fight the war on terror, stop being afraid.
    48. Re:Games from different regions? by suomynonAyletamitlU · · Score: 1

      I disagree with a couple of the things you said, but I'm going to sum it up with only a couple replies because I really, really dislike heated arguments.

      Many of your points are not objections in principle, they're objections given that people can't be trusted as shown from experience, such as businesses cutting each other off at the knees, or Microsoft et al treating customers like criminals by default. I get that; that's not the point. My point is that the law should be doing something about all of it, and what should be done isn't quite clear yet.

      Whatever the solution eventually is, it should be made in such a way that it prevents businesses from being cutthroat, prevents them from doing heinous things that would make boycotts a reasonable response, should prevent them from treating users like criminals from default, and should protect them from malicious users, etc--in other words, it should be fair, a concept that doesn't get enough play in many discussions of law. You can dismiss that easily by saying that it's unrealistic, but if you keep searching for a solution, maybe someday you'll find one; and maybe not, but frankly, it's not like it's an imposition to keep searching.

      I also disagree that IP doesn't and shouldn't exist, but only with the one caveat that the protection of IP should only last until you finish recouping loss, or a certain window of time passes. The RIAA/MPAA rake in enormous quantities of income on things that were done decades ago and which have no maintenance costs, and they defend those profits as though they were recouping investment, which they're not. They should be allowed a business model that encourages other artists and studios to sign with them, but they shouldn't be allowed to bilk consumers endlessly. IP protection is--or rather should only be there to encourage people to innovate without fear that someone bigger will completely and utterly steal their thunder. In other words, it should be benefiting startups, not big businesses who themselves have the money to innovate with little risk.

      Also... it occurred to me lately that computers are in some way their own "service" industry, which is to say, it is a way for someone else to do something for you. I think that that's behind a lot of the feeling that people who mod or alter hardware feel betrayed--they were offering you a way that they would be useful to you, and you spat on it. Granted, that's their mistake, not yours, but it still seems kind of sleazy in that way.

    49. Re:Games from different regions? by laughingcoyote · · Score: 1

      Didn't mean for things to be heated, and actually I think you and I probably agree a lot more than we originally thought. I'd actually be alright with the changes you propose. If we were to say "Alright, businesses, we'll provide some guarantees against the rug suddenly being pulled out from under you, but at the same time you need to quit arbitrarily terminating employees and making 500% profit just because you can", I'm alright with that. What I don't like is the current situation, where Big Business wants "fairness" to it, but wants in return to be as soulless, cutthroat, and "responsible only to the shareholders".

      I'm also with you in terms of reasonable terms, though I just can't go with the term "intellectual property"-nonrival goods cannot be property, and it lumps too many unrelated things (copyrights, patents, trademarks, trade secrets, etc.) under a header that's ill-named to start with. You make copyrights into a ten year, opt in only system, I'm totally with it. You leave patents even at their current time frame but specify that they can cover only tangible things and not processes, software, business methods, DNA, etc., I'm totally with it. But don't call it "property", it's a limited time monopoly enforcement. That would meet the constitutional mandate, that copyright and patent protection must be designed to promote progress. Currently, it largely hinders it.

      Far as selling someone something, if I sell someone my car, I don't care if they keep it as is, modify it, scrap it for parts, whatever they want. It's their property now, and if it's not exactly to their liking in the form I sell it in, they've every right to modify it. Once I sell it, I've no right to stop them. I don't consider it in the slightest "sleazy" to modify what you purchased-it's yours, and if you don't consider it as useful as you want it to be (even if the seller thinks you should), you have every right to tweak it to your liking.

      --
      To fight the war on terror, stop being afraid.
  3. How come the usual BS didn't work? by aussie_a · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Modding consoles, selling chips to mod consoles and selling services to mod consoles have been deemed legal in Australia in the past due to the justification that they allow you to play backed up versions of games you've legally bought. Of course this is a valid reason to want to mod a console, but its also a "nudge nudge, wink wink" situation as the people who would actually mod their console only for playing backed up versions of their game would be in the extreme minority.

    But this bullshit justification has always been enough in the past to stop people from facing the consequences of selling chips to get around DRM in consoles. So how come the excuse didn't work this time? Is it because its a civil trial? I understand the burden of proof is much less in civil, but if this was a successful avenue for corporations to take, I'm sure Sony would have done it years ago with the original Playstation. Did the defendants in this case mess up and get caught actively encouraging people to use their chip to pirate games?

    I RTFA, but it was completely silent on how Nintendo managed to win this court case.

    1. Re:How come the usual BS didn't work? by bbqsrc · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Did the Playstation chipping case occur before or after the Australia-US Free Trade Agreement? If you weren't aware, our copyright laws were heavily modified by that "trade" agreement.

      --
      Disagree != mod troll.
    2. Re:How come the usual BS didn't work? by aussie_a · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Oh goodie. Yet another thing to thank Johnny Howard for.

      Given I'm talking about the original playstation (which is when I heard about this legal loophole that allowed stores to openly selling their services to chip playstations) and the PS2 came out in 2000, I'm going to assume it happened before the free trade agreement ;) (I don't remember the exact date I saw stores openly selling playstation modding services, but I do remember being quite surprised and either seeing something about it on the news or looking it up on the internet).

      That said don't misconstrue this as to have any actual sympathy for people selling devices to get around copyright protection. I understand that these devices can be used for homebrewing. And I'll support the first to support any company that actually tries to make a business out of homebrewing for the Nintendo DS. But first that company will have to do a pretty damn good job convincing me they really are trying to make a business out of homebrewing and aren't using it as a legal pretext to allow people to pirate DS games.

    3. Re:How come the usual BS didn't work? by Jophish · · Score: 1

      yes, but can it run linux? http://dslinux.org/

    4. Re:How come the usual BS didn't work? by discord5 · · Score: 4, Informative

      That said don't misconstrue this as to have any actual sympathy for people selling devices to get around copyright protection. I understand that these devices can be used for homebrewing. And I'll support the first to support any company that actually tries to make a business out of homebrewing for the Nintendo DS. But first that company will have to do a pretty damn good job convincing me they really are trying to make a business out of homebrewing and aren't using it as a legal pretext to allow people to pirate DS games.

      There is no business in homebrewing on the DS. But as someone who's spent a substantial amount of time in tinkering with the DS, let me reassure you that it's a lot of FUN! (Warning: your definition of FUN may vary). By todays standards you've got a very limited amount of room to do your work in and you have to make the most out of it, and most of the code you write is going to be really close to the hardware. If you're remotely interested in this sort of thing (even if you're not going to write a game), the DS is a pretty cheap ARM platform for all the hardware that's in it:

      • two small screens, addressable through several memory banks, with several modes of operation (including a rudimentary OpenGL like 3D API on one of the screens)
      • a touch screen interface
      • wifi
      • sound output via speakers and input via microphone

      The DSi even has two cameras onboard, but I don't think they're supported by libnds yet.

      Oh, and of course, very interesting is that a lot of people have made the source code for their homebrew games available. Sometimes you'll just go and have a peek at how someone else did something, and discover something really ingenious, often optimized to give the best performance given the limited hardware available.

      But let's face the fact, without Nintendos official seal of approval (read: a wheelbarrow of cash and a reputable game-company backing it) there will never be any real money in whatever you're going to code. If you want to do something commercially, you'll have to buy Nintendos tools, etc. If tinkering with a piece of hardware you buy is going to make you a criminal, I fear for the next generation of geeks.

    5. Re:How come the usual BS didn't work? by bug_hunter · · Score: 1

      Yeah, that trade agreement hurt. As I'm sure the parent poster knows, but for others: Prime minister (at the time) Howard had to get us a trade deal with the US basically to show the Australian voting public that the whole joining America on Iraq was worth it as it was an unpopular move.

      The trade talks were going badly and at the last minute Howard made the executive decision to give in to a lot of US demands and take the hit. Showing the public that we had a US trade agreement seemed more important than showing the public that we had a GOOD agreement. Ahh politics.

      --
      It's turtles all the way down.
    6. Re:How come the usual BS didn't work? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As the saying goes: "John Howard was so far up George Bush's arse, he could see Tony Blair's ankles!"

    7. Re:How come the usual BS didn't work? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Homebrew only carts for the DS exist, the iPlayer DS is one example.

      (ex-developer of DSLinux)

    8. Re:How come the usual BS didn't work? by nedlohs · · Score: 1

      There were two reasons that modchips were OK in Australia.

      1. Australian law allows importing of content from overseas and circumvention of "region locking".

      2. The courts accepted the argument that the law said you can't work around devices designed "to prevent or inhibit the infringement of copyright" and modchips only allowed playing copies not making copies. Playing a copy isn't copyright infringement, making the copy is so there was no "protection measure" involved and so the law against circumventing them didn't apply.

      But in this case:

      1. Does not apply, there is no region locking so you don't need this device in order to play imported games.

      2. Parliament changed the law a few years ago to make "protection measures" include those which allow "unauthorised use".

    9. Re:How come the usual BS didn't work? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sorry this is driving me nuts, it's DENNY Crane!

    10. Re:How come the usual BS didn't work? by Nazlfrag · · Score: 1

      Sure you need the wheelbarrow of cash, but alternatively being a successful homebrewer could definately land you a job in the industry.

  4. Just wait until they take a look at DSi carts by marcansoft · · Score: 3, Informative

    Every single DSi-compatible DS cart, including Datel's Action Replay DSi, includes portions of a pirated cart ROM. Nintendo started signing all executables and retroactively signing the existing library of DS games (they include the hashes built in to the DSi firmware), so the only way you can get an unofficial DS cart to run on the DSi is by pirating a game's executable/header and partial data and then using a data file exploit (data files aren't signed) to make it bootstrap your code. These DSi-compatible cartridges even show up with the game icon of a real game in the menu, since that part is also signed.

    If that isn't a lawsuit in the making then I don't know what is.

    1. Re:Just wait until they take a look at DSi carts by treuf · · Score: 1

      They actually sell the cart virgin without this modified code dumped from a valid rom.
      You take your responsibilities by putting the code in there - they shouldn't be liable for this (unless a store do this for you, in that case they'll be in troubles)

      They can't hold homebrews though without this afaik, but don't tell me this is the initial goal of such carts (it's a nice excuse to sell them though)

    2. Re:Just wait until they take a look at DSi carts by marcansoft · · Score: 1

      The AR DSi comes with the ROM (obfuscated inside internal flash), presumably because they don't expect users of a cheating device to go out hunting for warez. The makers of piracy cartridges probably assume their users are capable of such a feat - ironically, rendering the piracy carts more legal than the AR DSi, since they don't actually come with the ROM.

    3. Re:Just wait until they take a look at DSi carts by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Nintendo started signing all executables and retroactively signing the existing library of DS games (they include the hashes built in to the DSi firmware), so the only way you can get an unofficial DS cart to run on the DSi is by pirating a game's executable/header and partial data and then using a data file exploit (data files aren't signed) to make it bootstrap your code.

      In the USA this is not lawsuit fodder because of Sega v. Accolade. In Australia, you're still screwed.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    4. Re:Just wait until they take a look at DSi carts by marcansoft · · Score: 1

      Not necessarily. Sega v. Accolade was about copying code for reverse engineering (which is an entirely separate issue, and something that plenty of people are "guilty" of these days), and the trademark issue for consoles that require a trademark to boot (like the Nintendo logo required for GB/GBC/GBA games to boot). The only code copied in the end product was that required to show the trademark, which can probably be regarded as non-copyrightable or fair use (the only issue being the actual trademark display). What the case established was that showing this trademark (even though it didn't apply) was fine since it was a technical requirement.

      This is different, as the end product doesn't just incorporate a trademark or code that shows a trademark, but rather almost a megabyte of a game. That falls under copyright infringement, not trademark misuse. IANAL, but in my opinion a whole different case would be needed to establish whether copying a large amount of code/assets/whatever can be regarded as fair use if it is a requirement to be able to run unlicensed original code. This is a long way from just showing a SEGA or Nintendo trademark.

    5. Re:Just wait until they take a look at DSi carts by drinkypoo · · Score: 3, Informative

      This is different, as the end product doesn't just incorporate a trademark or code that shows a trademark, but rather almost a megabyte of a game. That falls under copyright infringement, not trademark misuse.

      Sega v. Accolade didn't make a distinction based on the type or quantity of content. It simply stated that if you have to include the magical secret code for the game to function, you may include it. So far, that case has held up and/or not been challenged even in the face of the DMCA and its clauses about defeating a copy protection mechanism, so I figure it's probably pretty secure here too.

      IANAL, but in my opinion a whole different case would be needed to establish whether copying a large amount of code/assets/whatever can be regarded as fair use if it is a requirement to be able to run unlicensed original code.

      IANAL either, but; I agree that a whole different case would be needed, but there's already ample provocation to bring one if "they" think they can win. This hasn't happened, so I suspect that the lawyers don't agree with your assessment that it's clear infringement.

      This is a long way from just showing a SEGA or Nintendo trademark.

      The trademark was included in the code, not shown. The trademark display was a Dreamcast thing and came dramatically later. Go read up on SvA on Wikipedia please.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    6. Re:Just wait until they take a look at DSi carts by b1t+r0t · · Score: 1

      This is the code that was involved in the Sega v Accolade case, that Sega tried to assert copyright protection over:

      . move.b $A10001,d0
      . andi.b #$0F,d0
      . beq.b version_0
      . move.l $'SEGA',$A14000
      version_0:

      Source: http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Genesis_Programming#TMSS

      For what it's worth, pre-TMSS consoles are not very common in the US. This was added even before the rear comm port was removed.

      The trademark was included in the code, not shown. The trademark display was a Dreamcast thing and came dramatically later. Go read up on SvA on Wikipedia please.

      Didn't the original Gameboy require the Nintendo logo to be in the cartridge? If you turned it on without a cartridge, a black rectangle would scroll up the screen instead of the logo.

      --

      --
      "Open source is good." - Steve Jobs
      "Open source is evil." - Microsoft
    7. Re:Just wait until they take a look at DSi carts by marcansoft · · Score: 2, Informative

      Sega v. Accolade didn't make a distinction based on the type or quantity of content.

      Sure it did. As I said, there are two parts to the lawsuit: reverse engineering SEGA games in order to write your own, and copying the SEGA trademark as required for the console to boot. Part 1 doesn't apply here, because the game's code was not copied in order to write the ARDSi code - rather, it was copied because it's essentially a requirement for the console to boot. The distinction is that the lawsuit only relates to trademark law as it relates to getting consoles to boot, not copyright law.

      In other words, the lawsuit said:
      (1) You can reverse engineer game code, copy it internally, use it to learn the underlying operation of the hardware, and write your own game from the knowledge learned (containing little to none of the original code)
      (2) If the console forces you to include a trademark in order to boot, you may do so, even if you're not actually licensed to use the trademark.

      It did not say:
      (3) You can copy almost an entire game verbatim in order to exploit it to run your own code

      The intent is the same - to run your own unlicensed code - but the means are totally different. (3) is not (1) because (1) is about copying code for reverse engineering, but then distributing a final game that includes little to none of the original code. (2) is not (3) because (2) concerns trademarks, and (3) concerns copyright.

      This isn't a case of "magical secret code" - there is no magical secret code, Nintendo simply uses cryptographic techniques in order to completely block third-party software. There is, simply put, no way of actually booting third-party software on a DSi without first making use of an exploit or hacked version of original software. The console won't boot your code, it'll only boot a complete, verbatim, unmodified copy of a licensed game executable, so you have to include the entire thing and then work on tricking it into subsequently loading your stuff. And the only reason this works is because Nintendo isn't also signing data. For example, the Wii signs all data, and there you're completely screwed: you can't run original code at all (from a disc).

      IANAL either, but; I agree that a whole different case would be needed, but there's already ample provocation to bring one if "they" think they can win. This hasn't happened, so I suspect that the lawyers don't agree with your assessment that it's clear infringement.

      DSi carts are relatively recent. The gears of lawyers and the legal system move slowly.

      The trademark was included in the code, not shown.

      The trademark SEGA string caused the Genesis III to display the "licensed by SEGA" screen. Same thing, effectively speaking.

    8. Re:Just wait until they take a look at DSi carts by tepples · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It did not say:
      (3) You can copy almost an entire game verbatim in order to exploit it to run your own code

      Sega v. Accolade didn't, but another case did.

    9. Re:Just wait until they take a look at DSi carts by noidentity · · Score: 1

      Dude, the first rule of DSi carts is that we don't talk about DSi carts!

    10. Re:Just wait until they take a look at DSi carts by marcansoft · · Score: 1

      Didn't the original Gameboy require the Nintendo logo to be in the cartridge? If you turned it on without a cartridge, a black rectangle would scroll up the screen instead of the logo.

      Yup, though you can use a "smart" cartridge to trick the gameboy by alternately "showing" it the real logo and your own logo (enable the real logo when it checks it, enable your logo while it copies it to the screen). This also worked (in a more complex way) for the gameboy pocket, color, and the super gameboy, though I don't think anyone really discovered the latter until the ROM was dumped quite recently. But it is indeed possible to make a GB cartridge that shows your trademark while still working (though it still has to include the Nintendo one in the data, even if it never makes it to the screen).

    11. Re:Just wait until they take a look at DSi carts by marcansoft · · Score: 1

      That one's certainly interesting. There are a few key differences there (55 bytes versus a megabyte, purely functional code for the toner crypto vs. an actual creative game, and consumable goods vs. nonconsumable cartridges), but some of the things the judges said do make me wonder. It would certainly be interesting if this ever got tested in court. Particularly, a comment by one of the judges is pretty favorable:

      I write separately to emphasize that our holding should not be limited to the narrow facts surrounding either the Toner Loading Program or the Printer Engine Program. We should make clear that in the future companies like Lexmark cannot use the DMCA in conjunction with copyright law to create monopolies of manufacturer goods for themselves[...]

  5. Sensationalism... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    OP should have made the post title more along the lines of "Nintendo Wins Lawsuit Over R4 Mod Chip Piracy in Australia" because unless Nintendo can get something done about it in China it's not really any win at all... Shenzen anyone?

  6. Dear R4, by V!NCENT · · Score: 0, Redundant

    Dear R4,

    We are going to sue you because you make cardridges that fit into our Nintendo DS product that can read out images on MicroSD cards.

    We are unhappy with this because we are a company and we like to make as much money as we can and software pirates are abusing the functionality to run pirated copies of Nintendo DS games. Therefore we think that you need to pay us a shitload of money and not the people that pirate.

    Addholes as always,
    Nintendo Inc.

    --
    Here be signatures
  7. How the... by Pojut · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Considering this is Slashdot, how has no one explicitely pointed out that the R4 isn't a modchip?

    1. Re:How the... by Pojut · · Score: 0, Troll

      ...likely because someone was waiting to explicitly do it. -1 for not hitting preview before posting -_-;;

    2. Re:How the... by MobyDisk · · Score: 1

      It isn't?

    3. Re:How the... by Pojut · · Score: 1

      Not in the traditional sense, no. A mod chip is usually used to describe something that is attatched (either permanently or temporarily) to the physical board of a device. The R4 is known as a "flash cart"...it looks exactly like a regular Nintendo DS game cartridge, except there is a port on it to put a MicroSD card loaded with roms on it. There is no internal modification to the DS needed for the R4 to be used.

      Read more about it here. The picture of the cart you see at the top of that article isn't an R4, but the R4 functions the same way.

    4. Re:How the... by Abcd1234 · · Score: 1

      It's not, no. It's just a cart with a microsd slot and the necessary electronics to convince the DS that the storage on that card represents a DS ROM. It's a modchip in the same way that a CF -> IDE adapter is a "modchip" for your computer.

    5. Re:How the... by MobyDisk · · Score: 1

      I own several, and I've always called them "mod chips" because it contains a "chip" and it modifies the function of the device. I suppose then someone could call any DS game a "mod chip" by my definition. But "flash cart" doesn't seem right since all games are flash carts too.

      Given the choice, "mod chip" better describes what it does. So until a new term arises, I'll stick with that.

    6. Re:How the... by Pojut · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That's just it though, it doesn't modify the functionality of the internal hardware in any way...as far as the DS knows, a normal game cartridge has been loaded into the cartridge slot. That's why you can use it without modifying the DS handheld.

  8. You're forgetting rule #1 by Moryath · · Score: 1

    You're forgetting rule #1 of law: He who has enough money to buy off a judge, decides what the legal opinion will be.

    I'm sure the judge is enjoying his new Wii-shaped swimming pool.

    1. Re:You're forgetting rule #1 by aussie_a · · Score: 1

      I'm sure the judge is enjoying his new Wii-shaped swimming pool.

      Citation needed. Because making completely unsupported allegations like this is just ridiculous. Then again, this is slashdot where all corporations are evil.

  9. It's your system by Murdoch5 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    You should be allowed to do what ever you want to your system. Are they going to sue me for putting a mod chip in my Game Cube? Modding my SNES? Even modding my Gameboy. If you paid for the system you can do what you want to it.

    1. Re:It's your system by Tjebbe · · Score: 3, Insightful

      True, and in this case it's not even a chip, just a game card where you can insert a memory card, and run your own stuff.

      I have one, and it only contains one game; nethack-ds. I fail to see how that would be illegal.

  10. Softmod anybody? by blake1 · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Does anyone actually use Modchips on their Wii any more?

  11. Goerge Miller had it all backwards by elrous0 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It's funny now to go back and look at "Mad Max" and realize that the premise of that movie was that the future of Australia would involve too much lawlessness and a lack of legal enforcement (criminals going free, no law to protect citizens, etc.). Now here we are in the actual future and Australia of late is looking at actively censoring the internet, banning any videogame that shows blood, imposing criminal and civil sanctions on people for modding their videogame consoles, and even banning criticism of lawmakers. It seems that the Australia of 2010 turned out to be more of a police state than a free-wheeling lawless anarchy. Turns Tina Turner was right. We didn't really need Max at all.

    --
    SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
  12. Did Nintendo kill the DS Mod community? by MobyDisk · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I wrote a fairly popular DS app a few years ago, but I saw the writing on the wall for this platform. Between Nintendo making it harder to get these chips, and cell phones becoming more open, I don't see much point in writing for the DS. It's a shame: I think Nintendo could be where Apple is today with the iPhone, had they opened the DS. It had so much potential. Now, it is simply out of date.

  13. Feh by kitsunewarlock · · Score: 1

    While in the long run it should be ethical to mod a piece of hardware you bought yourself, I gotta admit I can list off about 16 people who all own DS's and Modchips, and half of them have yet to pay for a legal copy of a game for the DS. The other half run *mostly* modded games. None of them use the R4 for any legal 3rd party applications.

    --
    Ginga no Rekshiya Mata Each page.
    1. Re:Feh by tepples · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I gotta admit I can list off about 16 people who all own DS's and Modchips, and half of them have yet to pay for a legal copy of a game for the DS. The other half run *mostly* modded games. None of them use the R4 for any legal 3rd party applications.

      Then add tepples as #17 and replace "None" with "One". The microSD card that I used with my R4 back when I was still into DS includes MoonShell, DSOrganize, Colors!, Lockjaw, and a couple saved game management utilities, but no pirated DS games.

    2. Re:Feh by Again · · Score: 1

      While in the long run it should be ethical to mod a piece of hardware you bought yourself, I gotta admit I can list off about 16 people who all own DS's and Modchips, and half of them have yet to pay for a legal copy of a game for the DS. The other half run *mostly* modded games. None of them use the R4 for any legal 3rd party applications.

      Same here. Even my fellow computer science friends that have flash carts use them almost entirely for pirating games. I have read on this page that there are some people who don't use the flash cart for pirating games but not pirating is very much the minority.

      There would be very little demand for the flash carts if they were only used simply for homebrew.

      Call me an ethical egoist but I've avoided buying myself a flash cart simply because of the piracy associated with it. I do not think that Nintendo made a good decision by going against the chip maker. But hunting down the individuals is not realistic either.

    3. Re:Feh by MadChicken · · Score: 1

      As #2, let me add PuzzleManiak, ScummVM (all legal games I have CDs for, plus Beneath a Steel Sky), Video Games Hero, DiceWars, DScent and AmplituDS. I also have physical copies of six DS games, which I loaded most of them on to pick and choose from when on the go.

      For commercial games, I either pay for it, find a freeware/OSS equivalent, or just play something else. I don't need to, nor desire to pirate games and it does gall me to hear all the experts here ignorantly stating that "everyone who has an R4 is a pirate". I imagine the many many other posters here that have stated otherwise are also rather annoyed.

      --
      SYS 64738 NO CARRIER
    4. Re:Feh by tepples · · Score: 1

      For commercial games, I either pay for it, find a freeware/OSS equivalent, or just play something else.

      I've been meaning to ask: What's a good "freeware/OSS equivalent, or [] something else" counterpart to Super Smash Bros. series or Animal Crossing series?

  14. Music, movies, games? by phorm · · Score: 1

    My buddy has one of these for his kids. He raves about how good it is for long car-rides because it allows them to watch movies etc on the DS (which has pretty decent battery life) and keeps the entertained.

    As my boy's friends often trade and/or lose games, one of these would also be useful in that case (R4 stays in the DS with all the applicable games, not allowed out. Heck you could glue it in and just swap miniSD cards as needed).

  15. Indefinite lease by tepples · · Score: 1

    leasing it indefinitely

    In the EU, at least, that's illegal.

    They have a doctrine of customer rights or something

    Then how does EU law distinguish between a time-limited lease, such as renting a DVD at some European counterpart to Blockbuster, and an indefinite lease?

    1. Re:Indefinite lease by ShakaUVM · · Score: 1

      If it's a sale, then they can't pretend it's not a sale, or make a customer waive his rights.

    2. Re:Indefinite lease by tepples · · Score: 1

      If it's a sale, then they can't pretend it's not a sale

      Then allow me to rephrase my question: How does the law decide whether "it's a sale", as opposed to a lease that expires 70 years after the death of the author?

    3. Re:Indefinite lease by ShakaUVM · · Score: 1

      If it looks like a sale, then it is a sale. If need be, a judge looks at it and decides.

  16. You don't know me by tepples · · Score: 1, Informative

    I know three people that have them and none of them use it for anything except playing downloaded ROMs.

    Then I take it you don't know me. I don't pirate DS games on my R4. I run homebrew apps such as MoonShell, DSOrganize, Colors!, and Lockjaw. I have played pirated MP3s on it, but I don't think Nintendo has the standing to sue on behalf of (say) its competitor Sony.

    1. Re:You don't know me by Shrike82 · · Score: 1

      You're right, I don't know you. Apparently you missed my point. People like yourself are the minority. Therefore Nintendo are obviously going to be gunning for anyone selling or making the R4 to prevent it from being used for piracy, which in the majority of cases it's going to be. Yeah it's a shame that that screws homebrewers like yourself, but is it really that much of a surprise that this has happened?

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    2. Re:You don't know me by tepples · · Score: 1

      So should all homebrewers jump ship from DS to Android?

    3. Re:You don't know me by Shrike82 · · Score: 1

      Well if I were a homebrewer I'd be lobbying Nintendo to provide tools for developing apps for the DS. I don't hold much hope that they would, but at least they'd be aware of the scale of the homebrew scene.

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  17. "It's my hardware..." by boondaburrah · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Y'know, I was actually thinking about getting a DS, but now that I can't load up emulators for older systems (like my GameBoy Pocket) or homebrew games, I might have to get a PSP. It seems you can't have both a system that's well known for a good library of games, popular, and a system that's open to homebrew (officially or otherwise) in the same package. Of course, there's Windows, I guess - but I'm tired of dealing with all of the slight-little driver issues to full blown failures of my computer and such with PC gaming, and would like a console that's open for development without this app-store xbox-live approval (sdk costs money) nonsense. It would appear that game publishers would avoid a console like that like the plague though, for fear that someone will develop a "Game Backup Tool." Of course, if consoles create a legal, fair way to backup games and do homebrew, then there would be little to no reason to hack except for piracy. Unless you're hacking for hacking's sake, in which case you probably don't care about whatever online service they'll ban you from anyway.

    1. Re:"It's my hardware..." by Hatta · · Score: 1

      You don't really want a DS for emulators anyway, not other than GB/GBC. The screen resolution is so small that even NES games have to be scaled down. The best genesis emulator does run quite fast, but it doesn't scale horizontally which can be a big problem if you're playing Thunderforce IV. Those cropped columns can easily be the difference between seeing forward enough to react or dying.

      The PSP is pretty nifty. You even get PSX hardware emulation. The DS does have a better library of games, but there are still plenty of games on the PSP worth spending time with.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
  18. Copy provenance by tepples · · Score: 1

    I tried the SNES emulator on the thing, with ROMs of those games (pre-dumped -- not pretentious enough to build or buy my own dumper)

    Then technically, you've used your R4 for piracy. If you dump your own Super NES Game Paks (which will become easier once Retrode is out), you're protected under 17 USC 117 and foreign counterparts. But if you obtained bit-identical files over the Internet, then you've copied the copyrighted code libraries written and licensed by Nintendo for use in Super NES games without authorization. Unlike patent and trademark law, copyright law cares about the provenance of a copy.

    1. Re:Copy provenance by PRMan · · Score: 1

      If you dump your own Super NES Game Paks (which will become easier once Retrode is out), you're protected under 17 USC 117 and foreign counterparts. But if you obtained bit-identical files over the Internet, then you've copied the copyrighted code libraries written and licensed by Nintendo for use in Super NES games without authorization.

      Actually, a US Federal judge just recently suggested that if the only items that a defendant had "pirated" were items that he already owned a license for, that she would be willing to listen to a Fair Use argument on that:

      According to Judge Gertner, "the ability to 'space-shift," by moving music to a more compact and portable medium; the ability to obtain individual tracks, increasing consumer choice; and the ability to sample music prior to purchasing it" all might "belong in the fair use calculus."

      This was in a P2P case (Tenenbaum).

      --
      Peter predicted that you would "deliberately forget" creation 2000 years ago...
    2. Re:Copy provenance by Hatta · · Score: 1

      I don't buy it. Nothing in that exceedingly verbose article you linked to cites any law or case law relevant to copyright. 17 USC 117 however, reads "it is not an infringement for the owner of a copy of a computer program to make or authorize the making of another copy".

      So if I own a copy of Super Mario Bros. (a computer program) it is not an infringement for me to make another copy of Super Mario Bros. If I download a smb.nes, then I have made a copy of Super Mario Bros. Providing that I only use it in the ways authorized by law, then I'm in the clear.

      There's nothing in the law that can be construed to mean that I must make the copy from the copy I own.

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      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    3. Re:Copy provenance by tepples · · Score: 1

      [If you dump your own cart, you're OK under US law.] But if you obtained bit-identical files over the Internet, then you've copied the copyrighted code libraries written and licensed by Nintendo for use in Super NES games without authorization.

      I don't buy it.

      Judge Rakoff bought it in 2000. Please see my other reply.

    4. Re:Copy provenance by Hatta · · Score: 1

      MP3s aren't covered by the exemptions in 17 USC 117.

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      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    5. Re:Copy provenance by tepples · · Score: 1

      MP3s aren't covered by the exemptions in 17 USC 117.

      Nor is the background music in a video game, if you want to argue that way. I imagine that the applicability of fair use to space-shifting a major label video game is complex enough that I don't have the cash to pay a lawyer to argue to a judge one way or the other.

    6. Re:Copy provenance by Hatta · · Score: 1

      I'd argue that a music file that is part of a computer program would be covered by the exception for computer programs. The exception would be pretty meaningless otherwise.

      But you're right, it would take a lot of resources to argue such in court. Fortunately, I don't know of anyone who has ever been sued or prosecuted for downloading ROMs anyway.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
  19. Then require copyleft by tepples · · Score: 1

    They also care if people do homebrew stuff, because if that were legal, it wouldn't be just individuals who'd write games for it; it'd be large companies.

    Then require all homebrew apps written for a system to be distributed with source code and the right to modify and redistribute. What major-label commercial games are copylefted, other than perhaps Id games several years after release?

  20. Projects caught in the middle by tepples · · Score: 1

    So if a project is too big for distribution as homebrew freeware but too small for a retail release through official channels, such as Bob's Game, what should a developer do?

    1. Re:Projects caught in the middle by discord5 · · Score: 1

      After 17 weeks of trying and failing to get Nintendo to provide Pelloni with the SDK, on December 11, 2008, he decided to publicly protest to Nintendo by locking himself in his room for 100 days or until they provided him with the SDK, whichever came first.

      Well, not that obviously.

    2. Re:Projects caught in the middle by Kira-Baka · · Score: 1

      It's the other way around. Commercial games are limited by the amount of ROM in the cart, homebrew games can use as much of the card it is stored on. Unless you're using big and small to mean something other than data size...

    3. Re:Projects caught in the middle by tepples · · Score: 1

      homebrew games can use as much of the card it is stored on.

      But how much does it cost to create that data? Can one recover the cost of creating this data from donations alone?

      Unless you're using big and small to mean something other than data size...

      By "big" I meant scope and production budget, not data size. For example, there are simple little Flash games on Newgrounds.com whose data is larger than 384 KiB, but Super Mario Bros. 3 is still a "bigger" game than those. Please allow me to rephrase:

      So if a project's scope is too big for distribution as homebrew freeware but too small for a retail release through official channels, such as Bob's Game, what should a developer do?

    4. Re:Projects caught in the middle by LoverOfJoy · · Score: 1

      Increase or decrease the project's scope? Sorry, I got nothing.

    5. Re:Projects caught in the middle by tepples · · Score: 1

      I tried decreasing the scope and got plenty of "you're better than that" complaints. Increasing the scope would require starting a proper business. Have you any tips on how to find the cash to do that?

  21. Copyrighted boot sector under U.S. law by tepples · · Score: 2, Interesting

    If that isn't a lawsuit in the making then I don't know what is.

    I don't know much about copyright law in Australia, but at least in the United States, an argument from a copyrighted boot sector doesn't hold legal water, not even after the DMCA. See Sega v. Accolade and Lexmark v. Static Control Components.

  22. Australian DMCA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It looks like their law has the same essentially unpatchable hole as DMCA. If you're in violation of the law when you use/distribute/manufacture things that are compatible with someone else's DRM, their existing implementation also becomes in violation if you ever produce a work that needs it.

    Instead of making R4 chips, they should have made a game that requires an R4 chip first (just make sure you do it in such a way that you never license anything from Nintendo or otherwise give them permission to manufacture devices that protect your game). Then make the chips, and when Nintendo comes a-suing, sue them right back for doing the exact same thing. If they win, you win.

  23. freedom protection by sixsixtysix · · Score: 3, Interesting

    i don't care if 99% use something for piracy, the other 1% should never be affected. i should be allowed to tinker with whatever i buy, and if i can do something myself, i should be able to pay someone else to do it for me, whether it be modding my own hardware(or am i licensing the hardware?) or archiving my legally purchased media to whatever format i choose(seeing as i am allowed to record and archive content off the tv, why can't i use the internet as a dvr?).
    what's even more ridiculous is the bullshit development licensing consoles have in the first place. anyone for that system, would have to be for development licensing fees on windows, linux, mac, etc. they are all computers ffs!

    --
    ...
  24. make it all illegal by OrangeTide · · Score: 1

    I only use my R4 for homebrew. I already own the 3 good NDS games, and 5 good GBA games.

    Here's a car analogy: most people speed in cars, so we should outlaw cars.

    A save the children analogy: most children play too many video games, so we should shut Nintendo down and make the Nintendo DS illegal.

    --
    “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
    1. Re:make it all illegal by Shrike82 · · Score: 1

      What wonderful arguments you make. I'll leave it as an exercise for you to see the flaws in your strawmen.

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    2. Re:make it all illegal by Nazlfrag · · Score: 1

      Hint: they are exactly the same as the flaws in your strawman. R4 ownership != piracy.

    3. Re:make it all illegal by Shrike82 · · Score: 1

      If you can point out a statement I've made that equates to "R4 == piracy" then I'd be impressed. What I've been saying (if you'd paid attention) was more along the lines of "homebrew << piracy". See the difference there?

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    4. Re:make it all illegal by Nazlfrag · · Score: 1

      They do care if you crack it open, modify it to circumvent their security and start playing pirated games on it.

      Emphasis yours, not mine. Distributing a device which entails the possibility of piracy and actual piracy are not equivalent.

  25. Compare to vehicle leases by tepples · · Score: 1

    Fair use statutes such as 17 USC 107 tell the judge what to look for when evaluating certain defenses to copyright infringement. Likewise, I'd imagine that the definition of "sale" and "lease" in commercial codes tell the judge what look for. But what do EU commercial codes say about this? If vehicle leases done in writing can last for three years or more, why can't leases of consumer electronics done in writing last for three years or more?

    1. Re:Compare to vehicle leases by ShakaUVM · · Score: 1

      It's been a couple years since I researched this, and I think there's some benchmark that gets applied. I can't find the document that I read a while back, though. I think the main difference is if it is a sale/lease in actuality vs. a sale/lease in principle. You can't just call something a lease when it looks and smells like a sale.

      There's also tough limits on things like EULAs, and other contracts where one party is not given an option to negotiate the terms.

      While I'm actually not a fan of big or intrusive government, I actually think the EU has it right - contracts are designed to be between two consenting entities, and when one entity has no ability to strike out provisions in a contract then there should indeed be strict limits on what you can get them to agree to.

    2. Re:Compare to vehicle leases by laughingcoyote · · Score: 1

      Well, for one thing, leases are of a fixed duration, and the exact length of the lease is determined ahead of time. The lease can be for an exactly fixed period (think a four-year vehicle lease) or for an indefinite but determinate period (think of "You may continue to lease your modem from us until you disconnect your Internet service"), but it cannot simply be "You lease this from us and may keep it as long as you want, but you don't really own it." If you give me an item in return for money, and will allow me to keep it for as long as I want, that's a sale, and no EULA should be able to take that away.

      --
      To fight the war on terror, stop being afraid.
  26. Digital Pesantry by kenp2002 · · Score: 1

    Wasn't the concepts of First Sale Doctrine (which is hardly an American in origin) supposed to protect against this Digital Pesantry? Next thing you know Pepsi will be suing people for improperly drinking their soda due to EULA viloations (Must be served cold in a Pepsi branded glass with 6.8 ounces of ice per 1/5th litre of soda.)

    There is nothing now preventing ANY manufacturer prohibiting any non-sanctions periphrials. Nope you can only use SONY headphones with our Sony Walkmans, you can only use Ford manufactured tires on a Ford, you can only use the king's paper for legal documents... err wait... we did do that... didn't the Americans fight a war over that kind of behavior?

    --
    -=[ Who Is John Galt? ]=-
  27. UMG v. MP3.com by tepples · · Score: 1

    Actually, a US Federal judge just recently suggested that if the only items that a defendant had "pirated" were items that he already owned a license for, that she would be willing to listen to a Fair Use argument on that

    Another U.S. federal judge disagreed: UMG v. MP3.com, 92 F. Supp. 2d 349 (S.D.N.Y. 2000).

  28. profit = no right to protest! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    i think, the issue is quite clear.... so long as the developer and distributor 'of anything' makes a profit off their work they have no room to argue that someone else has infringed on their rights. basically, if they can stay in business, they ought to just shut up!

    the whole idea of copyrights wasn't to give an industry ultimate control over their own ability to maximize profits, especially not indefinitely. and anyone who whines cause they think they 'should' be making more money should be taken out and put down.

    seriously, how petty must the corporate world get before things change? does Nintendo make games to make a profit, or does it make games so that people can enjoy them? if the earlier is true their right to do business should be revoked! making money may be required to stay in business, but making that the goal sets up a business to eventually act excessively selfish, greedy, or downright irresponsible.

    case and point: they sued a smaller, nobody, company because the technology they produced was used for piracy--or could be, but they still refuse to provide adequate means for people to do the things that device legally allowed a user to do.

    i've copied and given away ALL of my DVDs, CDs, and video games/systems. i believe wholeheartedly that maintaining a large collection of disks, cartridges, and entertainment systems is beyond irresponsible in a time where the construction and shipment of those items consumes so much better used non-renewable resources. the tonnage of plastic used to make those things, and now sitting on a shelf unused or in a land fill somewhere, is beyond unbelievable. let's not even consider the environmental cost of the energy needed to make them or the transportation fuel needed to get them to my home.

    if the government had any sense at all, it would not only throw out any case brought against a company that allowed for the mass digital storage of otherwise individually sold items, but it would also either sue the pants off the developers for refusing to provide the same service, or simple provide the technology to the public itself via the development of a non-governmental non-profit organization simply in the hopes of limiting the future distribution of waste to their already overfilling landfills (they could use the money from the lawsuit to pay for the development of the non-profit manufacturer).