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Stone Tools Found On Crete Push Back Humans' Maritime History
The New York Times reports that stone tools discovered on the Greek island of Crete, and reported last month at an academic conference, are strong evidence for rethinking the maritime capabilities of early humans. The researchers who found the tools (hand-axes, cleavers, and scrapers) estimate them to be at least 130,000 years old; if they're right, humans have been traveling long distances at sea (Crete is 200 miles from the northern African coastline) for at least several tens of thousands of years longer than earlier believed.
132,010 BC @ 00:12 Webster9 wrote: First Post
In a related story, next to one of the axes they found a mast with the words "First Post".
But the amazing part was the -1 Offtopic heading right beside the inscription.
Yay, now I'm a troll too
Why does this give evidence that we have been traveling for longer periods of time. Is it because the stove is from Africa, because than it just shows that stone on Crete was from Africa, and so could have washed up onto the beach. Or am I missing the point :-)?
...and pretty much have always been.
Humans didn't evolve genetically to this modern technological state, the cleverness has always been inherent.
Those look like rocks to me, not "stone tools".
Nice Post, Keep it up.
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Although they state that the tools have been dated to be around 230-190k years ago, but that tools could have been made far prior to that, giving a possible estimate of the tools being up to 700k years old. Despite this, they never really say why this changes their view on sea-faring of ancient times. Currently the north shore of Africa is about 200 miles from crete, but what they seem to have failed to take into account (or at least mention in the article) is that in ancient times sea levels were much much lower. This is estimated to be due to deglacification around 7k years ago. The National Institute of Oceanography states that in studies the sea level of India's coast were about 100m lower about 14k years ago, so extrapolating (a dangerous game I know =) we could say it may be possible that at some point the voyage to Crete was either walkable, or a very short sea voyage. It should also be noted that the technology is of the Acheulean type. Regardless it is still a fascinating discovery, and it never ceases to amaze me at how much we underestimate our ancestors, until we slowly find things that we never thought possible before, for example the Antikythera mechanism. Who knows what we'll find out tomorrow.
"It's ok, I'm completely secure as long as my iron is off"
Crete has been an island for more than five million years, meaning that the toolmakers must have arrived by boat. So this seems to push the history of Mediterranean voyaging back more than 100,000 years, specialists in Stone Age archaeology say.
There have been some pretty severe ice ages within the last million years when the sea levels were very low. For instance Japan used to be connected to Korea (and the Sea of Japan was a lake) only 18,000 years ago. Crete was probably really close to Greece back then too, maybe even connected.
"Don't talk to me about humans' maritime history. It's nothing but primitive stone tools, sodomy, and the lash."
I'm not so sure the find is suggestive of "maritime capabilities". To prove such a statement, you would have to prove evidence of navigation. Even if it were only celestial navigation, stronger evidence would be to find more than one such remote site with similar styles of survival technology. From the article: More than 2,000 stone artifacts, including the hand axes, were collected on the southwestern shore of Crete, near the town of Plakias. The question, at least for now, should be whether or not they went back.
These are quartzite. The three types of stone that can be cleaved to make tools are quartzite, obsidian and flint. Quartzite is the worst of the three because it doesn't cleave well. If these hominids were "going to sea" you would think they could trade up for flint or obsidian. I'd guess that stone-age teenagers used the area for beach barbeques (the stoned-age). A few thousand tools simply mean a well used party spot. Turning a few old tools into a theory that humans were sea travelers a hundred thousand years before previously thought is a stretch.
Its pretty easy to island hop from mainland Greece to Crete. You would be looking at 20km at a stretch. Thats very easy in a modern sea kayak. Even if proper hulls were beyond them they could build a sailing raft. There was more wood around in those days.
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Maybe they were just very good swimmers?
Just when you think you've figured them out.
What's long, hard and full of seamen? Stone tools, of course!
It's so easy, a seaman could do it.
Did any of them discover a moonstone?
Nur-Ab-Sal! Nur-Ab-Sal!
You know I read a lot. Especially things that have to do with history. I find that shit fascinating. In fact, I don't know if you know this or not, Greeks were spawned by niggers.
It's a fact. Greeks have nigger blood pumpin' through their hearts. If you don't believe me, look it up. You see, hundreds and hundreds of years ago the Turks conquered Greece. And Turks are niggers. Way back then, Greeks were like the wops in Bulgaria. Blond hair, blue eyes. But, once the Turks moved in there, they changed the whole country. They did so much fuckin' with the Greek women, they changed the blood-line for ever, from blond hair and blue eyes to black hair and dark skin. I find it absolutely amazing to think that to this day, hundreds of years later, Greeks still carry that nigger gene. I'm just quotin' history. It's a fact. It's written. Your ancestors were niggers. Your great, great, great, great, great- grandmother was fucked by a nigger, and had a half-nigger kid. That is a fact. Now tell me, am I lyin'?
130,000 years ago the Mediterranean basin was dry.
It only refilled after the sea levels rose as the last Ice Age maximum melted off and restored some water to the oceans. Best evidence is that was within the last 20000 years.
299 miles is not far for a swallow to fly, even if its not migrating.
Were there coconuts too?
So we found stone tools. Can we actually carbon date stone or how did we end up with the explanation that these things have to be 120k years old? By the logic that human created stone tools back then?
Well, I can make stone tools. Sure, it might take a while to get it right, but there's plenty of material lying around. So gimme a few weeks/months and presto, 120k year old stone tools.
Now why would I do such a thing? Well, what would I do if there was nothing else around that I could make tools out of? Imagine this: A group of sailors stranding on a far away island after a horrible storm that pushed them away from their usual routes. They have no idea where they are and have no idea where they could go, and the island is able to supply them, so... why bother going into the perils of the sea again? Only problem: No copper, no iron, no nothing to make tools out of.
I guess you can imagine the rest.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
left behind when some friends and I were camping. You can keep them.
The Luddites were ahead of their time.
I'm pretty sure some of the Galactica people landed around there.
There's no stoppin' the cretins from hoppin' You gotta keep it beatin' For all the hoppin' cretins Cretin! Cretin! I'm gonna go for a whirl with my cretin girl My feet won't stop Doin' the Cretin Hop Cretin! Cretin! 1-2-3-4 Cretins wanna hop some more 4-5-6-7 All good cretins go to heaven
Why would ancient people make "tools" of those shapes when they could find stones of those shapes in a rock pile?
and 100 miles from Greece. So what? Come on folks, look at the bloody map. It's only 50 miles from Turkey.
I fully expect that one day we will find evidence of a pre-historic civilization that is more advanced than the oldest historic civilizations, or maybe even recent ones. If there was something as advanced as what we have today we would probably have found evidence by now; Geological processes wouldn't wipe out rebar that fast. But how much would be left of, say, a civilization at the level of ancient Greece or even Rome after 50,000 years?
It's amazing when you stop to think about it, but if you pick any subject there's probably more we don't know than we do know. Even of our own species' history we don't know more than a few thousand years with any certainty or detail.