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Health Insurance When Leaving the Corporate World?
An anonymous reader writes "I've been working at a large company since I got out of college, so I didn't have to give much thought to getting my own healthcare plan. Now I'm thinking about leaving the corporate world and starting out on my own. I have a family now, so I need to make sure we're going to be covered should anything happen. Researching online turns up horror stories of people trying to get individual healthcare plans, or getting denied coverage on plans they thought they had. Does anyone else have experience going through this and what you've had to deal with, or am I making too big a deal of it?"
I've been told that forming a single-member LLC can lead to qualifying for group insurance and will prevent denial for 'pre-existing conditions', but i can't vouch for it. more research is warranted.
I found that the local grocery stores were union and part time workers could get full benefits. After looking at the cost of insurance for my family, I worked as a grocery cashier 15 hours a week (a fun job actually), received full benefits (taking up most of that paycheck) until my wife went back to work where she has the benefits. Otherwise, I would have never left corporate life because of that single issue.
Just like when planning for a very large purchase, be thorough and methodical in researching your options. Firstly, dismiss the plans that do not offer sufficient coverage. Secondly, dismiss plans that have yearly or total lifetime limits that are too low. Thirdly, read reviews, opinions, and small print on whatever plans are left. Finally, pick whichever fits your budget, preferably from a company whose last quarterly statement is not deep in the red, since the latter is sure to raise rates or compromise coverage.
Finally, remember that long-term disability is an absolute necessity in addition to life insurance (and possibly even more important). Make sure it's a policy with a completely different company.
If you go about it in a cool, organized manner, you will find the coverage you need... but don't be alarmed when you have to pay at least $15'000/year for it.
if you're rich, you have no problem
if you're poor, you have medicaid, and you have no problem
only if you are a middle class citizen in the united states do you have no healthcare options, and have to do ridiculous gymnastics like the poster above
how the hell did we arrive at this retarded status quo and why the hell do teabaggers and republicans oppose simple common sense reform of a horrible stituation?
i can hear all of their criticism of socialized medicine. republicans, teabaggers: i accept and acknowledge all of your criticism of socialized medicine. BUT ITS BETTER THAN WHAT WE CURRENTLY HAVE. do you not see that?
when you oppose socialized medicine in the usa, because of all the evils of that you see, you merely support a MUCH WORSE STATUS QUO
are you resisting because you have a better solution? (crickets)
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
Since you are probably in the US the easiest place to move to would probability be Canada.
And from what I understand you could still even work in the US, and getting heath care insurance for the US from Canada is very cheap.
Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
I quit my job in Denver in 1999 and move to Toronto. I felt a huge weight lift from my shoulders: no longer was I trapped in my job, and no longer did I have to fear illness ruining my and my family's lives.
I'm pretty sure the parent post was meant in jest. But, at the same time, the United States might be the only developed nation in which such a huge chunk of the population could be so blindly frightened and misinformed. How the people formed such a masochistic relationship with the big corporations -- one so strong that they'll stand in the street and protest against their own interests -- is beyond me.
Maybe this entire American health care "debate" could be summarized with an infamous quote from a man protesting a perceived intrusion on his lifestyle by Obama: "Keep your government hands off my Medicare!"
Do you like German cars?
Stop that. Really. It's pointless. Oh, long wait in Canada for inexpensive health care, rah bah bah.
And when you ask a Canuck, why there's a wait, they say, "So other people with bigger problems can go first".
I don't know if you're able to move or not, but the situation isn't the same in every state. Maybe you could move to Hawaii, for example.
It might be overkill, but if you really want to go out on your own, that could be a path forward.
Get the best primary residence you can possibly afford. If you get really sick, go on Medicaid. Medicaid can't take your primary residence. Also, look into a "Medicaid approved annuity" to protect some assets; but be mindful of the fact that it will lock up the money at low interest rates.
If you don't have significant assets, don't buy anything. Health insurance doesn't insure your health, it insures your assets--badly.
In general, set up an asset protection plan if you have any signficant assets. Talk to a lawyer. The idea is to make yourself looke "poor on paper". Really. I wish I were kidding.
I am in PA and I started full-time contract work just over 5 years ago. I have a family and have been using Aetna the whole 5 years. At, first, my premiums were 575 per month, with a deductible for each family member of about 500 for prescriptions, 150 for emergency room, 15 dollar copay, and some other pretty decent stuff. Now, my premium is 1,100 per month, deductible at 1000, copay 25 and emergency room at 250. I rarely go to the doctor, and if I do get a prescription it is only antibiotics. My wife only goes to normal visits and my kids don't go that often. My youngest has asthma, but we pay for ALL asthma related items out of pocket (since she has been taking floven, the asthma has not been an issue).
Anyone who says that lowering taxes will help small business is either f***ing retarded or a flat out liar. My taxes have in fact gone DOWN the past couple of years, while my health insurance nearly doubled over the past 5. Guess what else has gone down. RATES. The only reason I am still doing this is that I love it, and I am hoping that I can expand further and take on other workers. I would like to hire them full-time, but with health insurance being what it is I have to take them as a w2 contract or 1099.
I don't want to crush your "American Dream", but as far as health insurance goes you are basically Effed. And if you are trying to do "research" note that there is no real competition. You either pay out the ass for fairly decent coverage (still with out of pocket expenses) or you pay less with a a crap load of out of pocket expenses. THERE IS NO REAL COMPETITION!!!!!
Seriously - If I was willing to move out of the U.S. and good health care was on my list of needs, where should I go?
I think you will find it harder to be allowed immigration than you expect. Depending on where you go of course, but your options are probably quite limited.
Finally! A year of moderation! Ready for 2019?
Uh sure, but you're completely ignoring the fact that many medical conditions come from nowhere. Even a slight medical issue can run you hundreds of thousands of dollars.
Consider if you're paying $10k/yr in insurance premiums, ten years later you get cancer. You would have saved $100k (assuming absolutely no other issues for any family member, which is unlikely). You could easily spend that $100k in just a couple of weeks (or even days depending on your problem)... Then what would you do?
Most countries won't allow people over a certain age to immigrate, to prevent that exact situation. They have enough elderly sucking off the government tit already. They don't need broken-down old foreigners who have contributed their lifetime's worth of taxes to some other government, dropping by for the freebies.
Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
I worked for a large corporation. Not huge, but large enough to find shortcuts to covering employees. Instead of having insurance, they acted as the insurer and had Aetna act as a "manager" of the plan. Not only was this cheaper for them, they got out of all the regulations governing insurance. I had a kid, and they denied coverage because he wasn't a member at the time of his receiving care. But, I couldn't make him a member without a birthdate, so I fought with them for months. They I got canned, and lost access to mechanism to continuing fighting.
Long story short: State bureau of insurance couldn't do anything. Hospital hit me with $5,000 in bills, and the corporation probably got a tax write off.
I used to be capitalist until I saw capitalism in action.
I'm Canadian and very biased, so I'll just say that up front.
Move to Canada.
Canada is capitalist. Canada has universal health care. Canada's not going to take too much out of you through taxes; if they did, we wouldn't have the economy we do. Canada's tax code is fairly similar to the US, and probably fairly less complicated (and there are many, many deductions available to businesses). And you know that Canada has a stable government and isn't going to be embroiled in conflict any time soon.
Of course, you'll have to go through the immigration process to do so, though if you're running a fairly successful business you should have no trouble (I believe there's a business owner class for immigration).
It's better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.
- E. Debs
As a USA'ian I agree. I have several Canadian friends and all of them have nothing bad to say about the socialized health care up there. In fact once when I was up there and was in a car accident (friend was driving) the hospital looked at us anyways while we were waiting for my friends cut to get tidied up. I kept telling her, I'm Alright and I dont have insurance in your country.
she said," you dont have it, this is free. even for people from outside the country"
Honestly the only people talking smack about the social health-care you have up there are the fear-mongers down here that are still believing that Obama is going to set up death panels and will start eating babies.
In 2004 my wife drove to canada monthly to buy her meds and see one of your doctors. because we were jobless and could only afford your "dangerous" Canadian pharmaceuticals, and your doctors were the only ones that understood Reynauds and were willing to treat it. American doctors poo-poo it as a "nuisance" and mostly refuse to treat it.
Only the raging idiots here knock and dog on Canadian health-care.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Get a High Deductible Insurance plan and an Health Savings Account.
The only problem with a HSA account is the Obama's health plax axes HSAs and flex spending accounts, now why if health care is a right would Obama eliminate a system where people didn't have to pay taxes on the money used for health care.
Knowledge = Power
P= W/t
t=Money
Money = Work/Knowledge so the less you know the more you make
Depends on the province; it's often free no matter what your situation is. Contrary to Republican scare ads, it's also of excellent quality provided that you don't go to the emergency room for a cold or a stubbed toe.
The opposite is true. Canada has excellent acute care, and appalling chronic care. Emergencies are handled quickly and efficiently. Getting to see a specialist or starting a long-term regimen of treatment can take months or years.
That is by design.
Advice: on VPS providers
We get it, lefties. You don't like the US's health care system. Get over it. This guy is not going to move out of the USA simply because of health insurance.
Weird, I was pretty sure that dislike of the US health care system was pretty universal regardless of party affiliation or position on the political spectrum. Granted, how to *fix* the system is a polarizing issue, but whether or not the US system sucks balls doesn't seem to be up for debate these days.
Though, as an aside, some people actually do leave the US because of healthcare. Many more would like to, but can't afford to move any more than they can afford their healthcare premiums (some of my friends fall into the latter category).
These responses of move to "XYZ" or move out of the US that are modded "insightful" is simple flamebait and does not help the questioner or add anything new to the discussion.
We get it, lefties. You don't like the US's health care system. Get over it. This guy is not going to move out of the USA simply because of health insurance.
so then what is your advice? or is it just "NO"?
Total healthcare spending in Canada last year was $160 billion or so. So $10 billion was paid by the people, and the other $150 billion was magically wished into existence by healthcare fairies
Of course not. It was paid for the same way that America's massive defense expenditures were paid for, or Medicare was paid for, or Veteran's benefits were paid for: taxes. We just choose to allocate taxes toward funding universal healthcare. You guys picked missile defense , cutting-edge interceptors, and nation building. To each his/her own. *shrug*
I'm a four time serial entrepreneur, but each time I start a new company I panic about this. Because I once saw a doctor about a pain in my foot that might be arthritic, I am denied coverage by every carrier out there. I even hired an independent broker to help me, but he had no luck either. I've never gotten or needed additional treatment for my foot (or anything else) and I'm a healthy non-drinker, non-smoker in my thirties.
It's not only as bad as you were told, it's worse. I also mentor other entrepreneurs and when I talked to anyone older than 30, the main reason not to take the plunge is health insurance. Bless the 20-somethings who aren't worried and expect to live forever.
Not always. I've watched my wife's grandparents get excellent care from the family doctor, including specialists, to manage diabetes, heart disease, etc.
One could argue that the US health insurance system is set up to avoid having people do what you're trying to do.
I'm willing will be that one. Feudal lords can't own their serfs outright anymore, but they can find ways to make it difficult to leave the manor. You would think that modern corporations in the US would be falling over themselves in favor of a national single-payer system to get out from under their healthcare liabilities, but that doesn't seem to be the case.
Some believe that it's an individual's responsibility to budget and take care of themselves, and not the government. And not from my paycheck. I've managed to find jobs that had insurance for 30 years, and turned down jobs that didn't. My choice. I resent that I might be taxed more to pay for medical procedures for some of my friends that could afford health insurance, but have simply chosen not to so they can have nicer cars or homes. Granted, not everyone is in that position, but I sure know a lot of people that are.
.. it's just that some can't afford it. Just like everyone has the right to free speech, but not everyone can afford a front page ad in the New York Times to exercise it.
.... I haven't seen any single payer system that provides better care that I receive now. I prefer a free market approach. Just a few months ago my 26 year old son, who doesn't have health insurance because he free-lances, called a hospital to see how much it would cost to x-ray his ankle so he could make sure he could afford it. Because that's what responsible people do. They refused to give him an estimate. So he said thanks, and said he would look elsewhere.
Of course, Canadian premier Danny Williams believed that when he came to the US for a procedure that wasn't available in Newfoundland, but was in Ontario. I guess if you are rich in Canada, you also get freedom of choice.
Single payer system is just a way to tax those that work harder to pay for medical care for those that don't work as hard. Everyone has access to medical care in the USA
No thank you
Imagine my surprise when he told me the hospital called him back the next day and found a way to limit his financial exposure to a certain amount. My brother-in-law had a similar experience when a hospital not in his insurance 'network' refused to give him an estimate for a cardiac procedure so he could make sure he could afford it.
Seems that free enterprise also works when people have choices and use them instead of whining about being a victim.
I rarely read replies, it's my opinion and if you thought about your opinion a little more, I'm OK with that.
Unfortunately you have a point. Were I president, I would move to solve that problem with ethics rules (enforced ones, not that ones that Obama put forward and then didn't follow) that prevented anyone from getting a bigger share of the government's ear than the common man. At the same time, I would move to implement single-payer health care by means of a slightly changed H.R. 676 (mostly making it more clear that it applies only to citizens, lawful permanent residents, and refugees / asylees).
But maybe I'm just too idealistic.
It's better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.
- E. Debs
The reality is that the majority of people are happy with the quality of health care available in the US.
Ahhh, but now you're mincing words. I'm sure the *quality* of healthcare in the US is very good. I don't think anyone has disputed that.
What some people are unhappy with is the cost
*Some* people? Try *most* people. Cost is a *huge fucking problem* in the US healthcare system. It's not just a huge problem, it's *the* problem. And it leaves millions upon millions either uncovered or undercovered. Additionally, availability is a huge problem, as cost makes coverage unavailable for some, and for others, even if they have coverage, they may not be able to avail themselves of it, as it may be canceled, coverage for procedures may be denied, etc.
And these issues are systemic. Which is why most Americans, regardless of political affiliation, are *not* happy with the US healthcare system, and will freely admit that it's deeply flawed and needs to be fixed somehow. The only question is how (and that's a really big, complicated question).
This is all well and good, but where do you think these single payer systems gain the medical advances they need to efficiently and effectively treat people? Canada doesn't invent the new, low cost high tech medical procedure that drive down the costs of medical treatment, and they can't, because no pharmaceutical or medical company in Canada (there are a total of around 20 according to a search, none that I've heard of producing anything other than generics, and I'm in the industry) will make a profit by investing in research and development. They wait until the United States invents an amazing new technique or drug and then they cop it, try to get a tax-free licensing deal, or just wait until they figured out how to reverse engineer it after any kind of international patent expires in seven years.
If I thought a single-payer system, or government involvement in healthcare would help more people get cheaper care and live healthier lives, I would be entirely for it! Unfortunately, innovation is what drives down cost, providing newer cost effective techniques to the masses, and healthcare innovation does not come out of countries with government involved healthcare.
GP was attacking the "it only costs us pennies!" statement that the GGP made. The GGP made the point that "healthcare is cheaper up here", while the GP made the point of "no it ain't, in fact you pay for it in taxes, but can't tell"
For the record, I'm a greedy jerk against paying higher taxes to the government for the benefit of others (on principle). I am all for optional donation to charity/church/community for the same goal.
In the same sense, I'm also against unemployment, as it is VERY prone to abuse. My father-in-law currently collects it ("why work when doing nothing pays so good?"), and I would much rather see this able-bodied, 48 year old truck driver asking for a handout from me (where I can give a number that isn't 1/2 his pay), and collecting it from me from the government taxes I pay. In the very literral sense, unemployment pays too good for him to go back to work (creating the problem it was intended to solve).
Well, you see, we don't trust our government. We never have. We might have national pride, but we don't trust Bush, Obama, or whomever. Our nation is no longer run by the people, but special interest, with the biggest special interest being the government, mainly because of it large assumed debt. In Canada, they seem to have a fair amount of disdain for individuals in politics, but what they do have is a mutual trust that we don't have.
In the USA, we are supposed to be free, but the government continues to advance social agendas, and that plays right into health care. Once the government gets our health care, they can start using it to control us. Look at our - taxes. No longer are Americans paying a "fair share" of government costs according to uniformity, rather they pay less when they are in compliance with government agendas.(Energy tax credits, owners of corporations, etc.) the whole system has become a farce. Just look at the recent plane attack on the IRS - why? because of some 170x (4, 6? I forget) statute where technology workers are singled out. Equal protection - my ass!
The productive people of society want our money to buy the health care we need. The under productive still want the health care, but don't want to pay for it. The conservatives don't see the government as the body to be providing health care because it does not employ free-market principals, so our dollar is not maximized. The liberals see the government as the body to provide health care because they are the only ones who can legally confiscate the funds from those who have them to care for those who don't.
Whereas in Canada, as far as I can tell, people see their government as an asset and not a liability. Lets face it, the confidence in the US's federal government is shot. And I think that's the real problem.
Slashdot's rate-of-post filter: Preventing you from posting too many great ideas at once.
Interesting. I've given thought to this myself - just because I'm not sure the US wishes to remain (or even maintain) its governmental obligations to society. People today tend to believe that government should only be here to wage war and 'defend' the populous. I tend to think government (at least a good part of it) should be to ensure the well being of its people, and that includes equitable health care. How have you found the health care in Toronto in comparison to the US?
I needed an MRI two years ago and got one within two weeks. I've also needed emergency CT scans and got them within three hours of being in the hospital. Recently, for my Crohn's Disease, I needed a double intestinal resection surgery, and while initially, because the surgery was considered "non-critical", my wait time was quoted as being six months, after an intestinal blockage and a visit to the ER, I was offered a choice between immediate surgery with a general surgeon who was not specialized with my case, or a wait time of a month for surgery with my own surgeon, who had studied my case intensively. I chose to try to wait the month, and the surgery turned out very well.
The only time where the Canadian health care system sucks is in trying to find new doctors, be they GPs or specialists. It was slightly challenging for my partner (type I diabetic, severe depressive episodes) and myself (Crohn's Disease, anxiety, chronic pain) to find doctors when we moved from Toronto to Ottawa, and while neither of us was able to see a variety of doctors and make a selection, we both were able to sign on with excellent doctors within a month of moving here that have been very willing to work with us and our conditions.
Specialists, however, are a different story: I had to wait six months to get a gastroenterologist appointment, and that was after my doctor predicted there might be a problem and thus referred me to three different gastroenterologists in the hopes that one of them would be willing to see me. The other two of them, 18 months later, still haven't responded to his request. My partner has also had significant difficulty finding an endocrinologist that doesn't suck balls... the one he was able to get in to see was over three hours late for their appointment, which lasted for all of three minutes. He hasn't been able to get another appointment yet.
Personal experience here.
The NHS tends to be good when you have routine or easy to diagnose problems and personally I am happy with how routine procedures have been handled.
When you have more difficult to diagnose problems which have not yet become debilitating it's pot luck if you encounter a doctor interested to getting to the bottom of things or if you encounter a doctor more worried about meeting their government imposed targets.
While I think the NHS overall is more fairer than the US system (even with the major problems I currently have with it) just remember the grass always seems greener on the other side.
I have a unusual vision problem which the NHS has failed to diagnose. Can you help? More at failedbythenhs.blogspot.com
Arrgh! We do NOT have "socialized health care"!
My doctor is an independent businessman who can dump me any time, or I him. He can send his tests to any of a number of labs; business can migrate away from the bad ones.
We have government-backed health INSURANCE. Even that is not a government department; my doctor's bills are paid by "Alberta Health Services", which certainly gets all its money from the government and has its board of citizens picked by them - but is still at arm's length. Not a government department, so politicians have little control over day-to-day functions, just year-to-year budgets; specifically, they can't get their kids jumped to the head of the line for care, or other corruptions.
We wrestle all the time with fine-tuning issues like doctors running private clinics that compete with hospitals for some operations. (Ironically, we have a mirror-image fear of a slippery slope that has American-grade care at the bottom, just as the US fears a slippery-slope down to "socialism"...as if even real "socialist health care" countries had worse outcomes...which they don't, dollar-for-dollar.)
But the basic principles are the same: keep the government out of the medical care entirely. Keep them at arm's-length from the insurance and hospital management. Their job is to control the purse strings and keep the costs from getting out of hand.
I, for one, would like to THANK the American demagogues that have trashed our health system. Until they started accusing it of all evils, I never really looked up much about it. Now that I understand it better, I appreciate it more.
It's painful, watching the American debate. Like watching that endless train wreck in "The Fugitive", only with train engineers in the engine screaming insults at the onlookers about how badly they are running their cars and what danger they are in, even as the train flies off the track.
Give me a break.
The guy went to the US because he could. He didn't want to wait, he didn't want to jump the queue, and he could afford it. It wasn't that waiting "would kill him", it was that he had the money to do it, so *why* wait? He certainly didn't do it because our healthcare system would kill him.
Let me tell you a *true* story:
My dad was born in 1933. That makes him 77 years old. He had his hip replaced 15 years ago. About 7 years ago he contracted an infection (one of those nasty antibiotic resistant ones that are so popular these days) and it settled in his hip. Multiple courses of antibiotics didn't help, so they pulled the artificial hip out, replaced it with a "block" (a non-functioning hip doused in antibiotics), then a month and a half later, they replaced the hip again.
A year later, that pesky infection came back. This time, no bullshitting around. His doctor got him an appointment with one of the top artificial hip guys in Canada. It took a couple weeks (not months or years). They scheduled Dad for another series of operations - the hip came out, a new block went in and this time it took care of that infection. Then back in for another surgery, and a new artificial hip.
It's been 5 or 6 years since that last operation, and my Dad is doing great. We're not bankrupt, we didn't have to take out a loan or 2nd mortgage to pay for it. And all this happened when he was in his *70s*. Nowhere along the line did anyone say "Oh, you're over 50, you're not worth it". We didn't get any kind of special treatment either - my dad's just an average retiree who lives in a small town in Southern Ontario.
I love our healthcare system. It may have its faults here and there, but it most certainly works.
Depending on how an Insurance company qualifies it, a prenatal procedure could be either for the mother's care or for the child's care. When I had a child, I had to call in advance to get the hospital stay pre-approved (or if I recall, within 24 hours after, maybe). Otherwise, they would deny it. On the day of my child's birth, I was suprised to see a gamut of charges, some tied to my wife's care and some to my child's. It makes a little sense when you think about it, but it was a bit unexpected to see that breakdown happen during one event.
We 'unfortunately' had the child delivered by c-section, so the date was known. If the date is not known (natural, off-schedule delivery), how do you get the birth date registered with the insurance prior to the child receiving care on their birth day?
Sounds to me like the insurance carrier/company was nitpicking and failing to keep a suitable window open for the addition of the child to the plan.
That's just not true. I don't care how much money you have, you're not likely to get good health care in Zaire. More to the point, being filthy rich may not actually allow you to line jump in more socialist countries, which is why we occasionally hear about people with non-life threatining conditions and lots of money coming to the US for medical treatment. (1) they can afford it, and (2) they don't want to wait behind that pesky kid with the exploding appendix to get their knee replaced.
Rationing (or triage) is a fact of life when dealing with scarce resources like medical care. Socialized medicine rations care based on who needs it and when. The US rations care based on how much money you have.
It has come up, and good solutions have been proposed. For example, this one by the brother of Rahm Emmanuel. That is the most maddening thing about the entire healthcare debate, there are some good, easy solutions that will make things a lot better, and that would be popular, but the two plans in congress are so horrible that no one wants them.
Some people have suggested that the reason Democrats are reticent to move away from employer based plans is because that is one of the major benefits of having a union. Many non-union employees get paid the same as union employees, so about the only thing left unions can offer is health insurance (and making it harder to get fired). I don't know if that is true or not.
Qxe4
I have experienced both the US health care system and the UK health care system. While I am sure the US system is given to excess and abuse, there is a huge difference in the quality of health care.
When they diagnosed an eye infection in my kid's eye, they opted to "wait and see" if the infection cleared up on it's own. I don't know about you, but when it comes to my kid's eyesight, "wait and see" is not good enough.
When I seriously cut my hand, I waited in the emergency room for three hours bleeding all over their floor. It was not that busy, but several doctors were out on holiday. They let several obviously non emergencies go in front of me, so I guess it's first-come-first-served. Then when I finally saw the doctor, they were so short handed that I actually had to assist in the operation by sponging the blood away from my cut while the doctor sewed me up. Good thing I'm not squeamish.
The other kid had a broken arm set in one of those fiberglass casts before we left the US. After we arrived in the UK and it was time to remove the cast, they didn't know how to deal with it. They started to get out a rotary saw and I told them that it could be removed safely with scissors. They sent us to several different hospitals and then made us come back after they consulted with some doctors in the US. Of course, they removed the cast with scissors...
I had a friend who had his wisdom teeth removed in the UK. It was done with only local anesthetic and there was quite a bit of collateral damage. He was in excruciating pain and couldn't come to work for about a week and had a liquid-only diet. He complained of soreness in his jaw for several weeks. When I had the same procedure done in the US, I never even had to take pain pills, I was eating solid food the next day and returned to work right after the operation.
It's not apples-to-apples.
So, you're saying that in the UK, if you aren't satisfied with the state healthcare, and want the 'best' you can get, you now have to pay taxes through the nose AND also pay out for private healthcare too?!?!
Frankly, I'm very scared that that is what will happen to the US if we go socialized health care (in addition to other problems)...it will just have us paying more in taxes, and then have to pay again to private institutions for anything other than minimal treatment.
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
Loss aversion.
Most people here support various key elements of reform. But:
1. They're scared of losing the coverage they have (either immediately or as the eventual effect of "reform"). Most people are satisfied with their personal coverage.
2. They have low opinion of the federal government's effectiveness, so 2000-page grand schemes are scary.
3. They have even less faith in the politicians' good intentions. Both parties seem intent on ideology and insensitive to the concerns of the population.
With better leadership, most elements in the current reform proposals could've gotten into law. But leadership is sorely lacking in DC at present.