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Health Insurance When Leaving the Corporate World?
An anonymous reader writes "I've been working at a large company since I got out of college, so I didn't have to give much thought to getting my own healthcare plan. Now I'm thinking about leaving the corporate world and starting out on my own. I have a family now, so I need to make sure we're going to be covered should anything happen. Researching online turns up horror stories of people trying to get individual healthcare plans, or getting denied coverage on plans they thought they had. Does anyone else have experience going through this and what you've had to deal with, or am I making too big a deal of it?"
Move to the UK or another country that cares
Move to any 1st world country not the USA.
There is no step 2.
1) Don't get sick
2) Die quickly
Did you just wake up from a 2 century nap or something? It's _always_ been a bitch getting health insurance without the help of an employer, and it's _always_ been the insurers' primary goal to make money by not paying your claims. Pardon my sarcasm, but you might want to subscribe to Newsweek or read a non-Slashtot blog now and again.
.nosig
they'll give us universal healthcare ... oh, wait, nevermind.
Depends on the province; it's often free no matter what your situation is. Contrary to Republican scare ads, it's also of excellent quality provided that you don't go to the emergency room for a cold or a stubbed toe.
So if this is the future...where's my jet pack?
received full benefits (taking up most of that paycheck)
So your insurance cost you 15 hours per week. That seems potentially expensive, depending on how much you could earn spending that time doing something else.
Developers: We can use your help.
Supposedly one of the strengths of the U.S. economy is its ability to rapidly adapt to changes. This has been used to justify the lack of job protections for workers. But as the poster has shown, having health insurance tied to your employer obstructs the kind of entrepreneurism that's part of our rapid adaptation.
I don't understand why this argument hasn't come up during the health-care debates. It would have let Democrats position themselves as pro-economy.
Are you on crack? Or do you just spend your time listening to liars without doing any fact-checking?
Insurance premiums for self-insurance are 100% tax deductible, provided you itemize your deductions and meet the minimum threshold (which is trivial considering how much insurance costs these days) -- they've been that way for decades.
"Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
No, they're resisting because they'll lose money.
I got an individual plan from the same provider that my company had been with. It was really pretty simple. Not cheap, but simple.
I'm damned glad that I did, too. My wife was diagnosed with breast cancer a couple of years later (she's fine now). We would have been wiped out if not for insurance.
the no
If this doesn't highlight the problems with the US health insurance system, nothing will. You had to trade 15 hours a week of your life simply to be able to live a healthy life. That sounds an awful lot like indentured servitude to me.
It's better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.
- E. Debs
is to find a civilized OECD country with socialized medicine.
The U.S.A. is now a third-world country with a large population of neglected residents. It's NOT going to get better.
Yours In Riga,
Kilgore Trout
I'm sorry, I missed the bit where you had constructive advice to offer to the poster.
It's better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.
- E. Debs
The business model of the healthcare industry can explain why it's difficult for individuals to obtain policies.
Note, this is not flame bait, just what I understand about the facts. The healthcare industries are in biz to make money - your claims are their losses, so if you rely on a plan that is subsidized wholly by the healthcare company, you're more likely to have troubles than, for example, a policy under an plan in which the company is "self insured" -- self insured means that the individual company has a pool of funds that pays claims and the healthcare company (ie: Blue Cross) is the "servicer" on their behalf. Under that scenario, and in my own personal experience, you are less likely to have troubles.
60 Minutes recently did an interesting segment on this, which included former employees ("Doctors") of large healthcare companies who came forward about some of the internal politics of this - and the horrors of the policies that favor denied claims, etc.
Notwithstanding other really good advice and info here, of course.
Also, if you'd like to see another viewpoint and comparison of the healthcare industries of the world, see Michael Moore's "SiCKO" -- tho there is obviously a bias there, I found it quite interesting.
This is partly why this so-called "public option" has people up in arms. It's (mostly) about the money :-)
I think that's great that you're looking to get out on your own; I wish you the best of luck.
I'll tell you a fact from a Canadian perspective of a middle class person. For all the complaining about the "death panels" we actually don't have here (vs. your for-profit insurance companies you guys do have) and saying that we have to wait forever (which we don't, prioritized: if you need it you get it *now*), when the average Canadian looks at the situation the average US'ian is in: we feel HORROR. God people, how can you choose to do nothing about it?
Shh.
Look into any kind of groups you have membership in especially professional associations. For example IEEE members (I believe after a year of membership) can get group health insurance, although I have not looked into lately it it may no longer be the case. Also organizations like AAA (yes the auto club) have discount prescription programs. Basically look at any group you belong to see if they have leveraged the power of their membership base to negotiate rates with insurance companies.
My boy, my boy!
[Move to Canada] and enjoy universal health care for about $100 per month for a family of 4, unless you can show economic hardship, and then it's free.
With all due respect, and I really don't mean this as a troll, but you aren't just paying $100 a month -- you simply cannot afford any medical system for that sum (even if you weren't screwed like the States into paying stupid large administrative costs) . In reality, a large fraction of the money for the health care system comes from taxes which you are ultimately going to pay.
I am a big proponent of some form of public healthcare but I dislike the fact that many of the people here in the US that are arguing for it will not acknowledge that it's simply going to expensive. They point to the naive out-of-pocket expense in Canada or The Netherlands without acknowledging the true cost of the system in the form of higher taxes. My position is that we can and should afford such expense but one does not do any favors to the debate by dissembling about the cost. If anything, it's ammunition to opponents that can point to your dishonesty in selling the plan.
There is no free lunch and there is definitely no first-world healthcare for $100/family/month. The closer figure it probably $650/family/month. Again, I believe it's a fine way to spend that money (and we are affluent enough to afford it) so I'm not approaching this from a position of ideological opposition, only one of demanding honesty from everyone.
Cite: http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/hea_spe_per_per-health-spending-per-person. The exact numbers are highly debatable, especially since we don't know how much various plans will change the cost structure here in the US but $100/f/m is simply unreasonable.
Here's why I didn't vote for John McCain: In 2008, a rawther imperialist ideology called "neoconservatism" ruled the GOP, and sticking with the GOP would have led to spending more money on foreign wars for oil. There were suggestions that neocon "defense" spending would eventually cost tax-paying Americans more than starting a savings account and buying high-deductible individual health insurance. The "tea party" movement against government spending in general didn't start until after President Obama took office.
I know plenty of people who have their own businesses... who have excellent health insurance coverage.
Perhaps it is because they understand that this cost is a necessary component of running a business, and don't spend their time whining about how it comes out of their "disposable" income.
It's not "disposable" any more than your business liability insurance is... or even more disposable than your grocery bill.
Why is it that you feel fine paying for food, but seem to expect healthcare for "free". If you aren't happy with paying for insurance, don't. Nobody says you can't pay out of pocket.
Finally, the state of Western medicine in EU, CA, and UK, is largely subsidized by the fact that they can license procedures and drugs from the US. In fact, the US is effectively subsidizing our socialist brothers abroad. And we don't mind so much... but we'd prefer it if you wouldn't badmouth us while we do it.
These responses of move to "XYZ" or move out of the US that are modded "insightful" is simple flamebait and does not help the questioner or add anything new to the discussion.
We get it, lefties. You don't like the US's health care system. Get over it. This guy is not going to move out of the USA simply because of health insurance.
Pfft. So in your view the whole world is 'left', and the US is 'centre' or something?
Are you really that stupid? because you sound like it.
The magical health-care fairies are TAXES you idiot.
Only a raging sociopath, or completely greedy asshole is against paying higher taxes to make sure everyone around him is in good health.
so which one are you?
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
are often exactly the sort of lower middle class folk who would benefit immensely from socialized medicine
its like in the town hall meetings last summer, the old man who stands up and yells "keep your socialism away from my medicare"
it would be hilarious if it weren't so horribly tragic
i think it just boils down to incredible, horrible levels of high propaganda: the government is out to get you! the government is YOURS. it serves YOU. really
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
In the US the insurance profits aren't actually all that much money. The real issue is that there is overhead EVERYWHERE.
Your doctor probably employs 1-2 people to do billing, because of the complexity of reimbursement. Your doctor nearly employs a lawyer as well with their malpractice premiums.
Your insurance company has 10x more people than it really needs - those don't count as profit, but they certainly bring cost.
Your hospital charges 10x what anything actually costs, because they have all the costs above and also have to provide "free" care to the indigent.
The tort and pay-for-service system guarantees that everybody is getting more treatment and especially more testing than they actually need.
Throw in another dozen issues similar to these and we can see why US health care is so expensive. Everybody likes to point at one thing and call it "the problem" but the whole system is one big mess. Most proposals to "fix" it amount to just shuffling money around so that people don't see the bills.
I have a individual (not group, not employer offered) HSA plan with a very low premium and a high deductible. Every month I put some money (about the difference between this plan's premium and a average premium plan) into my HSA account. Although the deductible is high, I save enough on the premium to basically put away twice the yearly deductible every year. The plan gives 100% coverage after deductible on everything covered (no coinsurance), and many things (annual checkups) are totally free even before the deductible.
In other words, in years when I have high medical expenses, my total costs work out about the same as a high premium, low deductible plan. However, in years when my medical expenses are low, I get to KEEP the money that I would have spent on premiums. The insurance company loves it because any expenses I incur come partially out of my savings, so there is a definite motivation for me to keep my costs as low as possible (which keeps their costs low as well, unlike other plans where there is no incentive for the insured to keep costs low).
And the best part is that everything I deposit in the HSA account is TAX DEDUCTIBLE and earns interest TAX FREE. When I retire I can withdraw from it TAX FREE as well. It is like the best parts of a Traditional IRA plus a Roth IRA, but I can use it to cover any health expenses I have at any time and with no penalties.
Bottom line is that I'm paying about 1/2 of what the equivalent coverage would cost from a regular plan, and in the best case I get to save a lot of money that would have been wasted on premiums and earn interest on it tax free, and in the worst case if I use up the whole deductible, I still get good coverage, lower my taxes, and earn some interest on the money. The only time I wouldn't recommend the HSA is if you get really sick a lot and have high expenses all the time, especially prescription drugs which aren't discounted as much in this plan.
As someone who's spent too much of the last decade out of work, everything you hear is true - like in Florida, over 13 mos between the end of '03 and the end of '04, when I ran out COBRA and got rolled into an "individual" plan, and the Republicans in charge of the state allowed, in two jumps, a ->ONE HUNDRED PERCENT- increase in premiums.
Consider finding a group to join that offers it - anyone know if either the IEEE or ACM offer plans?
mark "until we techno-peasants finally wake up, pull out the torches and
pitchforks, and ride the Republicans out of town on a rail, tarred and
feathered, and tell the remaining folks in Congress to pass single payer"
As opposed to what? Somebody else trading 15 hours of THEIR life simply so YOU can live a healthy life? That's the part that sounds like indentured servitude to me. Oh my gosh! You have to work 30 hours a week to pay for the food and lodging you and your family need, simply to stay alive? Oh, the horror! You want the benefits of medical care, you pay for the benefits of medical care. Why should money I earn be taxed and used to pay for benefits for you? Indentured servitude is what I'm experiencing when 40% of my paycheck goes to pay for medical care and other services for OTHER people besides myself and my family.
Truly deranged thinking is that paying twice as much (per capita) while covering half as many people as other countries is good healthcare and worth keeping.
The insurance companies hold all the cards.
Look at how the rates are climbing even as their profits are.
They are squeezing the last drop from your wallet because they know a single payer system is inevitable.
If you're going to be sick, you'd better not do it in the 'States. Its no place for you if you flinch at the thought of suing somebody who's only sin was being weak once (as we ALL are at least 15% of our lives.)
Other countries' health care systems may not be perfect but at least they exist.
The 'States have nothing even resembling a humane health care system.
What they have is health-don't-care systems.
Health care for profit is an oxymoron.
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
The doctors could even make house calls if you had a sick child. A wonderful system, and about half the cost of our monstrosity.
Think global, act loco
All true, and don't forget about adverse selection costs - as health insurance premiums have *doubled* over the last decade, more and more individuals and small businesses that have healthy, young employees opt out of health insurance entirely. Since this removes relatively healthy people from the pool, only the sicker and more costly insured parties retain their insurance, driving per capita costs of insured persons up. The numbers of uninsured are now significant, but there are tons of *less* insured people as well, or rather, those who have switched or been switched by their employers to high deductible plans.
Together, this is the health insurance death spiral that Paul Krugman wrote about this week in his NY Times Op-Ed. Though this doesn't really increase total costs directly, it clearly reduces the amount of preventative care younger, healthier people receive and probably eventually decreases aggregate health levels and will eventually increase systemic cost. It also causes the overuse of emergency rooms as clinics by the uninsured.
Then there's the costs of defensive medicine - though I've seen estimates that these are only something like 5% of total health care system costs, other estimates show they may be higher.
I'm sure we could come up with several more items like this if we tried.
Liberty means death?
:-D
Brainwashed socialists
Only Americans, can, after cutting their taxes on the upper class thereby shifting the burden of society onto the lower and middle classes, and then giving the upper class big bonuses for almost destroying the country, only Americans can complain about socialism for the middle and lower classes.
Socialism for the upper class is entirely acceptable in their brainwashed "Liberty to die" culture.
Actually, in America, per-capita healthcare costs are thousands of dollars higher than countries such as Canada or the UK.
So we're all spending more on healthcare, but our coverage is less, and we don't live as long.
If we could make our system as efficient as Canada's, we'd spend less and everyone would have coverage.
Unfortunately, the Democrat's plans seem to be extending our existing bloated system to cover more people.
And the Republicans will occasionally give lip service to healthcare costs, but don't seem interested in acting on it.
"how the hell did we arrive at this retarded status quo and why the hell do teabaggers and republicans oppose simple common sense reform of a horrible stituation?"
1. Excessive pork: Cornhusker medicare, the "Louisiana Purchase", etc.
2. Insurance "mandatory purchase" likely to hit middle class. The same people lack coverage now will be forced to buy what they already know they can't afford.
3. Federally-subsidized abortion funding. Some are 100% in favor, some are 100% opposed. It's a polarizing issue, no doubt.
4. Taxation on "Cadillac" health plans; looks like a "redistribution of wealth" scheme directed largely at the middle class.
5. Special union exemptions from the "Cadillac tax". What happens when an employer has both union and non-union employees and offers the same plan to both? Oops.
6. No significant relief from the downside of relying on employer-sponsored insurance. Most of the population gains nothing under the House or Senate bills.
7. No increased competition for the healthcare industry, the insurers, the lawyers, etc. This means no price breaks will be coming anytime soon.
8. No public option. Combine this with #7 above, and we have a plan that offers less than nothing, at excessive cost.
The Democrats placed themselves in the position. Most of the time, compromise between Democrat and Republican yields a product that nobody likes. But in this case, the Republicans were ignored because they lacked the votes to do anything. Therefore, Democrats negotiated with themselves and their campaign contributors (the healthcare industry and insurers) and this is what they came up with. Strategically, it make sense to force the Democrats to play the lousy hand that they dealt themselves. Hold them accountable -- on election day.
"As opposed to what? Somebody else trading 15 hours of THEIR life simply so YOU can live a healthy life?"
"Why should money I earn be taxed and used to pay for benefits for you?"
Uh, if you pay for your own insurance and file a claim, where do you think your insurance company acquires the money to pay for your claim? Do you honestly believe they simply pay you with the money you already gave them?
No matter what insurance you pay into, you *will* be paying for somebody else's benefit, as they will be paying for your benefit as well. That is the *very nature* of insurance.
If you *still* feel different, you should put your money where your mouth is and cancel all your health insurance policies and simply put those monthly payments into a self-guided investment account. ... and good luck with *that*.
The US has been pillaging health care and education for years to fund it's overseas military adventures. They've shed the government of the responsibility of keeping markets competitive, the middle class is largely destroyed, and the top 400 households in the US have seen their tax rate go down, and income skyrocket. We are basically in the same socio-economic boat as pre-Revolutionary France.
So decades later we have a extraordinarily stupid populace, saddled with debt, but their only source of information are the corporations that are robbing them blind. They've "won" the debate by repeating lies, and even have people called teabaggers marching against their own values, for reasons they cannot even define. (Really, is there any better place than America for political irony?)
It's a cycle that will only be broken by major catastrophe. I was hoping the oil spike and the collapse of the market would be it, but it looks like it's going to get much worse before it gets any better. God knows I'm not sticking around for it.
Please, please, tell the Europeans about this. Our media try all the time to convince us that private is the best and socialised healthcare is crap.
People complain about our healthcare system all the time, they don't realise how worse it can be. The private corporations are taking over. We still have a solid healthcare system, but stuff like public-private contracts are rising, with disastrous financial consequences for the State, and loss of service quality. Now they're talking about giving the freedom to opt out of the public system, or choosing your private provider at the expenses of the State. If we don't stop this madness we'll be like the USA in a few years.
If you can't afford to help your countrymen get health care, how can you afford to fight multiple major wars and lower taxes at the same time?
The only problem with the Republican viewpoint on government spending is that it doesn't make any fucking sense.
Honestly, that's the most ironic thing about American "conservatives"
They see themselves as center, and that any viewpoint deviating from their own is far to the left. Frankly, there's an element of truth to it, but only because nothing exists further to the right, so left is the only direction to go... still, they are unrelenting in their assertion that they are mainstream, center, and they know just the way everything should be with their so-called common-sense approaches to governance (or, more realistically, non-governance.... unless some gay guy winks at them and makes them uncomfortable enough to make some wingnut legislation to prevent it from happening again). They leave no room for compromise, because their opinions aren't opinions at all... they are undeniable god-given facts which are beyond question or reproach.
If you have prescriptions or a chronic condition like diabetes, move to somewhere with socialized medicine (seriously). If yuo're pretty healthy, give the HSA a shot.
Here's the thing about healthcare - it's only stupid expensive if you're uninsured. That sounds odd, but it turns out that if you don't get negotiated rates with providers, they will charge you an outrageous amount. Often the "rack rate" for a procedure is between 3 and 10 times what large payers like Anthem have negotiated. A $2000 exploratory ultrasound in the hospital might only be $250-$300 allowable charges once Anthem applies their discount. Wart removal? $200 rack, $40 negotiated.
The HSA has two parts - you pay for your "routine" healthcare, but at the Anthem (or whomever) discounted rates. Often you get a physical for no charge each year. If you mess yourself up, or you contract some serious problem, you pay out up to your deductible (usually $3000-4000 for an individual) and - this is the good part - the insurance company picks up 100% of your bills after that. And for all this, your premiums will be about half what they would be under a co-pay plan, plus you get to put away money tax free.
I'll tell you, If you get hit by a bus, that 80/20 plan you have with your employer will eat you alive. It's very simple to rack up $100k in medical bills for a major life event.
Now, it's not perfect. As an individual, your insurer has the chance each year to decide you're too expensive and cancel your ass. (This is where group policies are better, but for healthy people will double your premium) Also, there is no defined prescription coverage - you pay what the insurer would have paid. For "regular" prescriptions, it's often LESS than the oh-so-advertised $4/prescription that many chains have now. For name-brand drugs, though, you could be in for serious costs. So if you have maintenance meds, check to see what the insurer's negotiated rates are before you jump.
Personally, I like the HSA. I get to get whatever care I want, I pay discounted rates for what I consume, and if I have a stroke or a heart attack my maximum out of pocket costs are going to be capped pretty low. And those costs - it turns out - I get to legally hide from the IRS if I'm a saver. Quite honestly - if you and your family are healthy - you can likely cover your whole family, plus the maximum IRS deduction - for the same amount as a group plan would have cost. After two or three years of being healthy, you should have enough in your HSA account to cover practically any major medical catastrophe with little to nothing out of pocket.
And, hey, isn't that really what insurance is about? Protecting you against the major loss?
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
I do wish we could go back to how medicine was a few years back...where you didn't depend on insurance for EVERYTHING, it was for emergencies (something catastrophic like a heart attack or car wreck). In those days, costs weren't too outrageous, you paid for your routine care, usually with a family physician you had for most of your life. That indie GP doctor could and often would charge based on a person's ability to pay.
The HMO's and bean counters with insurance co's kind fscked that up. I think we could go a long way to having the best of all worlds if we could first allow medical insurance to be sold across state lines. I'd like to see the Geico gecko pitching medical insurance just like he does motorcycle insurance. That competition alone would help drop prices. Make it easier for private individuals to band together to get group rate insurance.
And lastly...make it MUCH easier than it currently is, for everyone to be able to open and fund a Health Savings Account (HSA) pre-tax. Make the requirement to have a high deductible go away...that way, people can save year after year (with savings rolling over) for their routine medical care. I love the HSA...and I've often used that with doctors, when telling them I'm paying for the procedure or office visit rather than insurance, they usually cut me a 15% break on the price right on the spot.
The part about pre-existing conditions...that I'm not sure how best to handle. If we *did* have to have a govt. sponsored thing to take care of those that were uninsurable, that might work..lump them in with the Medicaid people maybe. I really don't want a public option because of what it can turn into.
The current nightmare of corruption and inability to contain costs that are Medicare and Medicaid right now, are perfect examples of how the govt. can fsck health care up.
Frankly before they can even start looking at socialized healthcare here in the US, I'd like to see them clean up the Medicare/Medicaid mess they currently have.
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
The resistance to it (outside of pure ideological) is coming mostly from people seeing how other federally run programs work or, more accurately, don't work. The US has tons of government "things" that just don't work, are a big fat waste of time and money, say for instance, the entire federal department of education, and the war on some drugs. We got by swell when the fed dept edu didn't exist.
As to medical, as an example, talk to some older combat vets how their federally run health care has been handled. For every one good story you'll hear ten horror stories. For instance, I have a good friend who had to wait over *thirty years* for the government to admit that yes, he did in fact have pretty nasty dioxin poisoning from agent orange. He then got a lot of back disability and some proper care. Not like his obvious bad chloracne he had the whole time was any clue to the docs there...
Health coverage in the US used to be cheap and affordable for most, even with low paying crappy jobs. I mean I distinctly remember this. I'll skip prices, mostly because you won't believe me, and just relate hours worked, 5 hours a week at a lower paid blue collar job covered it fully. Not mid middle class or higher, lower near entry level wages. It changed to way more expensive after medicare and medicaid got started.
We could stand some health care reform here, but European or Canadian styled just isn't going to work very well. And especially in this economy where they have been hell bent for leather to kill off wealth creation manufacturing jobs. No money=I don't care how many laws they pass, they won't be able to afford it. The US is *already* freeking bankrupt now as it is. Just *servicing* the debt we have now is hugemongous. We just don't need a single penny more government expense. We need to get a handle on that before we go thinking up more new ways to spend money. We need real wealth creation JOBS as the first ten priorities before we need anything else from the feds. Not service jobs, not more government employees, solid real wealth CREATION jobs.
Cheaper healthcare here could be garnered a number of ways, right off the bat, open up the dang medical schools, get those costs down, and start pumping out GPs, and get them in little towns all over, so people don't have to rely on expensive hospital visits for minor stuff. Maybe come up with a new classification for entry level minor care doctor that is an easier and cheaper schooling option, a first call care guy. Get more nurse practioners out there, which are similar. Open up insurance to more competition. Open up the generic drugs. Open source ANYTHING that uses one penny tax dollars for research. Make that open source viral. Stop letting the pharmcos get away from shifting one minor molecule on drugs to get perpetual patent extensions.
Stuff like that. I even thought a big national daily lottery with half the proceedings going to pay out the winners and the other half to fund open source medical research would be spiffy. I bet they could rake in tens of millions of bucks daily just with that, all voluntary. How about X-prizes for actual *cures* instead of symptom treatments?
I thought making profit was a corporations job, not the governments?
The government has no incentive to save money. There are no fat bonuses waiting for government employees who excel at saving money.
Now, if you were talking about a for-profit corporation, I'd see your point. They'd happily deny you coverage if they see the slightest chance of weaseling out of it just to improve their bottom line.
The government has plenty of incentive to save money.
Healthcare costs are rising faster than GDP across the western world, it's either sve money, or increase taxes, which is a sure fire way of losing the next election.
There's a hell of a lot of money wasted on people who are going to die in the near term anyhow, sure it's tough to say that we can't afford to keep granny going, but there's got to be some ratioinale behind it all or all you end up doing is continually patching up the same crumbling sand castle.
Citation needed.
If that is true, you are in bigger trouble maintaining a purely private health system. With public health insurance you have reduced operating costs due to no need for marketing, sales, corporate bonuses or dividends. With private health insurance you have the same costs plus marketing, sales, corporate bonuses and dividends. Pay attention to the last one, dividends, the primary drive of any private company is to deliver higher dividends (plus higher divs equal a higher bonus) so they can only do this in one of two ways, reduce costs or increase prices. Given a monopoly over distribution be it natural or artificial there is no impediment to raising prices.
So public health is cost + administration. Public health is cost + administration + sales + marketing + (dividends + bonus > last year).
I pay A$750 a year for complete cover (this is the Medicare levy from my tax, shock horror it's a separate line item on my return). How much is your employer paying, remember this may as well be taken directly from your wages as it's not coming out of the kindness of the employers heart (Read: if they could get away with not providing it they would).
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
The problem is, at least in the UK- presumably the same elsewhere, governments are getting ever more sloppy, coming up with new schemes that no one wants or gives a shit about, the schemes always over-run and end up costing more, so money has to be found and is taken from elsewhere.
So it's not that they have to make a profit, it's simply that they have to take money from the important services, to pay for their fuck-up pet projects.
So by "saving money", what they mean is that they're taking money from things people do want, to give to 0.0001% of the population some shitty little scheme that allows them to get away without having to work for a living like everyone else or something similar to that- that's the general pattern in the UK at least.
I hope your son carries a DNR on him, because that's what a responsible uninsured person would do.
Your son chooses not to carry insurance. If he has an accident, like say FRACTURING HIS ANKLE, and that fracture throws a bloodclot, which leaves him screaming in frantic pleading agony for a while before he passes out from the pain, then some spendthrift schmuck might call 911 and get him an ambulance.
Have you priced an ambulance ride followed by ER treatment lately? The last time one of MY INSURED and therefore RESPONSIBLE children ended up in the ER -- no ambulance ride mind you -- two hours of occassional treatment, a grand total of 10 minutes with a doctor, came to more than $3,000, paid for by my money.
But your clumsy, irresponsible blood-clot-throwin' welfare-queen son, just racked up at least 10, probably more like 20 grand of debt. You know what he's gonna do? He gonna declare bankruptcy and stiff that hospital on that bill, cause twenty-something kids who can't find a real job don't have 20 grand laying around. Then MY TAXES, MY MONEY are gonna get pulled in to cover the slack because your boy doesn't want to get up and go to work in the morning.
So, if he wants to redeem himself and stay responsible, he can at least carry a DNR rejecting care and demanding that the ER doc let him die screaming and solvent.
Wake the hell up, man. You're too old to keep buying this crap. Your twenty-year-old kid didn't wisely negotiate medical care with the hospital and force them to alter their billing practices. He was the recipient of some form of charity, but you're too thick-headed and vain to admit it to yourself.
And I'm glad he was. I'm glad he got the care he needed, and I don't mind that some of my taxes probably went to pay for it. I don't mind my taxes paying for your boy because one, I've got a working heart, and two, I understand the health of the herd affects my health too. A sick cow in a healthy herd will eventually make the whole herd sick, so I don't mind keeping your boy in good health, because in doing so I deny sickness a place to take hold in the herd I live in.
Let me put that in plainer terms for the benefit of the slow. If the busboy at your restaurant is sick, then you're about to be.
But hey, John, as someone right there beside you, let me tell you about your health. You ain't as young as you used to be, and you can feel it. You wake up slower in the morning, but you don't sleep as well. Stuff breaks, and it takes longer to fix. Trying to stay in shape gets harder and harder, and no matter how hard you work, you're still losing ground. You don't quite hear as well as you used to, but no one notices it yet. You ain't seeing quite as good, but you ain't gonna let on. You've had that scary moment when you couldn't quite catch your breath, even when you know you should have already.
We ain't even gonna talk about your prostate yet, are we? :-)
We're playing a good game, we got everyone fooled, but we get the scent in the wind. Dying ain't a theoretical possibility like it was when we was 17. Well, we think we got everyone fooled. Our wives know it. Well, mine does at least. Why do I get the feeling you're divorced?
Cancer. Heart attack. Diabetes. Stroke. That's what you and I got to look forward to John, and it's as scary as hell, looking down the barrel of words like that. Diapers and Dentures will eventually get us all.
Ain't it time we put down the macho bullshit and see if we can't take care of our kids yet? Two or three more decades, you and I are both gonna be gone, but our kids will still be here. Ain't it time we find a way to give them the same level of care we'd give to THE DAMN ANIMALS IN THE BARN?!
He put his boots up on the table and made a face. "The sig," he smirked. "You can waste your life in search of the sig."
As layed out in my post "I'm alright Jack", frankly I don't give a flying fuck if ideologues like you refuse to listen and demand your god given right to pay twice the price for half the service.
And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.