Slashdot Mirror
Google To Restart Talks With China
eldavojohn writes "Following the infamous attacks allegedly carried out by the Chinese government, Google sent a strongly worded message to China. However, despite the show of plumage, Google.cn continues to operate filtered. While both parties are silent about any resolution, Google and China have planned to restart talks and negotiations over Google operating unfiltered in China. (If you have a subscription, you can read about the story from its original source, the Wall Street Journal.) The print edition of the WSJ names Google policy executive Ross LaJeunesse as their representative meeting with Chinese officials. Meanwhile, China's Foreign Ministry spokesman, Qin Gang, has officially rejected the claim that the attacks were sanctioned by the Chinese government. He said, 'Google's statement from January 12 is groundless, and we are firmly opposed to it. China administers its internet according to law, and this position will not change. China prohibits hacking and will crack down on hacking according to law.'"
Is Google a country? Did I miss something?
And exactly what "laws" is Google breaking in China?
Why isn't this ever worth noting?
You just couldn't do it.
Google: Now the digital UN, sending strongly worded letters, and sending envoys worldwide to "investigate" cases of human rights abuses.
#fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
... it is a lot better to get a lunch after hunger strike than to die of starvation.
Show a little spine and turn the damn filters off.
business before human rights.
Yours In Minsk,
K. Trout
I don't doubt for a minute that China will, "...crack down on hacking according to law." Hacking that isn't according to law, however, will continue as usual.
I've calculated my velocity with such exquisite precision that I have no idea where I am.
China doesn't need google. Why should they bother? They have Baidu and it's in their best interest for this market in China to be owned by a Chinese company.
I'm just not seeing how Google has any kind of negotiating position here.
Okay, let's face it, China is THE rising power this century. Thanks to the mistakes of a previous administration, the U.S. will be surpassed sometime in the 2020s (not the 2050s as was previously predicted). If you're Republican you can pick Clinton, if you're Democrat you can pick Bush. (On the other hand, if you believe in reality, I think the choice is obvious).
But I digress. Despite all the bad things that the U.S. has said and done and been blamed for, I think it is obvious that it is still a much more benevolent world power than China has shown itself to be. Consider Tibet, North Korea, Ulighars, Global Warming, dissidents, Iran, Africa etc. etc. Let's face it, China only cares about itself and only about keeping the ruling party in power (and rich). They may not be actively supporting "evil" in the world but they sure don't go out of their way to fight against it.
Frankly, there's not too much that'll stop this from happening. But it's better to light a single candle than to curse the darkness. So, please, ask yourself when you have a choice, do you want to support China? If there is another product that's just a little more expensive from another country, please consider buying it. If you can get a return on investment that's just a little less than investing in China consider changing your investments (I did a couple of years ago).
You'll sleep better because of it.
Google has started wielding their fists in China. They've been trying to operate unfiltered, they shut the filters off briefly in this debacle, they've started drawing bad publicity on China and threatening to just walk away. Their behavior has forced some other Chinese-operated search engines to back off on censorship, and forced the Chinese government to ease up a little. They seem to be tired of waiting calmly for negotiations to turn favorable, so they've taken to slugging the other guy in the face when he doesn't give ground fast enough.
Support my political activism on Patreon.
Go to china and find this out for yourself. The streets are like anarchy. The society as a whole rules itself regardless of the communist party or not using a social system of governance. Everyone there mostly understands what is acceptable, what is not.
The laws the govt makes are not followed by the govt. You cannot have rule of law until the govt is accountable to its own legislation!
If that doesn't work, I suggest that Google just taunt them further. Worst case scenario, Eric Schmidt can wave his private parts at them. That seemed to work for this l'il troublemaker.
Let's face it -- Google's not pulling out of China because the market is too big and China's not going to back down on filtering. The way I see this playing out is a deal where Google is allowed to operate unfiltered on their end, however the Chinese government places in-line content filters down stream from Google, between their network and the rest of country. This way the content still gets blocked, but Google can say "its not our fault."
If you want to read the article, and don't have a Wall Street Journal membership, you can simply enter the article name in Google, and Wall Street Journal will let you use Google as a referrer to read the article through the paywall.
Here's the link to the Google search for you.
If I can not smoke in heaven, then I shall not go. -- Mark Twain
I thought governments lie.
Would were! Should is! Could be! And live a hundred times three.
Can we please stop regarding Google's saccharine "Don't Be Evil" claptrap for anymore than what it always was: branding.
Thanks.
China called Google's bluff and destroyed Google's credibility. Next time think it through first, Google. Right now you look like any other multinational corporation that would sell their founders' grandmothers to make more profit.
Anyone else notice the change to Search Language Preferences after the Google/China incident? It may just be a coincidence but the "Search for pages written in any language (Recommended)" option is no longer the default or an available option. The only option now is "Prefer pages written in these language(s)" with one of the languages sometimes selected and unselectable by default depending on your "Interface Language" setting or which localized version of Google you visit.
No, no. As a government-sanctioned action it would neither be considered 'hacking' nor against the law.
China prohibits hacking and will crack down on hacking according to law
When the law is doing the hacking, how much cracking down is really going to happen here? I'd say all of about none.
Oblig: You don't hack China, China hacks you!
China administers its internet according to law, and this position will not change.
Like there's anybody out there reading /. or the WSJ for that matter that is fluent in Chinese Law. This is their perfect 'get out of jail free card.' They can play the PR game all day long and hide behind whatever laws are defined. Any government would do the same thing, this isn't exclusive to the Chinese.
China administers its internet according to law, and this position will not change. China prohibits hacking and will crack down on hacking according to law.'"
Am I just getting cynical in my own age, or is it entirely possible that this is just doublespeak and state-sanctioned attacks are permitted under chinese law.
Try going to Shanghai where they are expected to double the 4000 skyscrapers they already have there in the next 15 years. (Manhattan only has 2000).
Or go to Guangzhou where a sleepy fishing village 20 years ago is now a mega city with buildings stretching to the horizon.
Consider that China is building 42 high speed rail lines (in addition to the world's only maglev). How many does the U.S. have? Zero.
Or think to the future, already the world's largest solar panel manufacturer, China will soon overtake the U.S. in wind power. (It blows the world away in new nuclear power plants).
If one includes the Chinese studying overseas, one could make a credible case that it already has caught up to the U.S. in cutting edge technology.
How someone who readily admits not being an expert could get a +5 insightful shows how ethno-centric Slashdot is. China was called "the sleeping giant" by Napolean. Now while it has awoken, it is another country that has fallen asleep.
Talks restart YOU !
I'm sure there are laws against this. I'm also quite certain that a wise local can get around them. This is one of the biggest problems in China. They can tighten the law all they want and it doesn't stop things because the enforcement is corrupt.
It also creates a huge inequity against foreign companies (like Google) because the same people who take the bribes either are already bribed by the locals or are afraid if they accept bribes from foreigners, the foreigners will be more likely to rat them out for taking bribes (an offense which carries the death penalty) later.
And this is all before you get into the question as to whether the government is breaking the law, which is quite possible, it happens in a lot of countries.
http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/8/20/95
A refreshing change from the cesspool of FUD and propaganda.
Have you ever Googled "google, NSA" (without the quotes)? It is not a pretty sight. I would be shocked at this point to discover that Google was not working hand-in-glove with the CIA, Pentagon and FBI. Same with Microsoft. Surely the CIA, Pentagon and FBI can enter a Windows computer (and OSX) at will through a supplied back door. The only people capable of discovering something like this would also wish to exploit their knowledge, so would never reveal it. Google and Microsoft claim it is against the law to reveal their relationships and activities with the Federal government. That tells you all you need to know.
Why do "Al Qaeda" bulletins allegedly authored by Osama Bin Laden sound as if they were authored by Oliver North?
Despite all the bad things that the U.S. has said and done and been blamed for ...
Whoa, whoa! Hold on. Could you please give an example of a bad thing that the U.S. has not done but has been blamed for?
I think it is obvious that it is still a much more benevolent world power than China has shown itself to be.
Well, let's see. It isn't obvious for me.
Consider Tibet
Consider Iraq and Afghanistan.
Consider North Korea
Consider Israel.
Consider Ulighars
What are they? Latest fiction from the propagandists?
Consider Global Warming
The last time I checked, an average American emitted 18.99 tonnes of CO2 per year whereas an average Chinese emitted 4.62 tonnes per year. You never knew it, right? For this, I won't blame you. I'll blame your media.
Consider dissidents
Oh, you mean incidents like these?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vikram_Buddhi
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2002/sep2002/eins-s03.shtml
Not sure. My company has recently moved all its tech manufacturing out of China due to quality control issues, general intellectual property lawlessness, and shipping costs/time. With automation a lot of manufacturing can now be done locally in the US, and in any case for US companies it often makes more sense to manufacture in Mexico due to NAFTA and improving infrastructure there. Half our company already speaks Spanish.
There are a lot of other newer and better alternatives in Asia, as well, like Taiwan, Thailand, Indonesia. Thailand, in particular, looks very promising. Costs relative to China are at parity or better, the weather is nicer (if you can avoid Tsunamis), and the people are famous for their hospitality and generosity.
I think manufacturing / export has driven a bubble in China, which is now like a big strong kid whose upper body (growing economic infrastructure, global presence) has grown too fast for his little spindly legs (diversity of economic base). One good pop to the chin like a more drastic shift in manufacturing elsewhere
Don't you realize they have us by the balls? Do you have any idea how much of our debt they carry?
And exactly how does this give them any real power over us? More to the point, by wording it as you did, you suggest that there is some sort of individual that all the money is owed to that can make a collective decision on how to behave should we piss the government off.
HA! I just wasted some of your bandwidth with a frivolous sig!
Why bother to negotiate if there has been no change in the mindset that created the problem in the first place. Just walk away Google. Don't be evil.
Why would we even have to ask if Google should do the right thing?
China is bad for human rights, so China must be confronted.
China is having too many males and theres no way they'll have enough jobs or resources. It's a disaster waiting to happen.