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A Balanced Look At Cellphone Radiation

A month back we discussed an article in GQ on the alarmist side of the cellphone-radiation question. Now reader pgn674 passes along a PopSci feature article looking at the current state of cellphone radiation research. It profiles people who claim to be electro-hypersensitive, "who are reluctant to subject themselves to hours in an electronics-laden facility" for studies. The limited research on that condition is still showing that sufferers, in blind tests, are unable to detect radiation at levels better than chance. The article also touches on the relationship of non-ionizing radiation to cancer. The conclusion is that while it seems unlikely high-frequency fields in consumer devices directly cause cancer, they might promote it, and might also indirectly cause other health deficits beyond simply heating nearby tissue — though one skeptical researcher cautions, "The gap between a biological effect and an adverse health effect is a big one."

32 of 171 comments (clear)

  1. Typical by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    who are reluctant to subject themselves to hours in an electronics-laden facility

    Which just goes to show how much the tinfoil hat actively interferes with the thought process.... In order to conduct a valid scientific experiment on such matters, it requires a room which is 100% free from other radiation sources. Which means the rooms in the facility are anything BUT "electronics-laden".

    But we're already fully aware that being vulnerable to EMR is the very least of these people's problems, which are usually only solved through extensive use of mind-altering drugs.

    1. Re:Typical by DangerFace · · Score: 4, Funny

      Now that you mention it, the times I've been in the closest to radiation free rooms (faraday cages for testing cell phones), I felt quite uncomfortable.

      I know what you mean - I always get this weird disconnected feeling whenever I've been away from the internet for a few hours...

    2. Re:Typical by Mr2001 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I disagree, while a lot of the claims are absurd, those of us that are hypersensitive still have real issues. I couldn't go to a large electronics store to buy a TV since even the smaller shops with a mere half dozen TVs on display had too many of me to stand. It's a relatively common problem for a subset of people with tinnitus.

      Um... you're not describing a hypersensitivity to electronics. You're describing sensitive hearing.

      --
      Visual IRC: Fast. Powerful. Free.
    3. Re:Typical by ilsaloving · · Score: 2, Informative

      Given that the whole slashdot article is revolving around people who claim bizarre reactions to radio transmissions and the like, I would like to see some of your own sources for explaining the phenominon you describe. I've never heard of electronics inducing tinnitus.

      I know when I walk into many electronics stores, the high frequency sound generated by faulty electronics can be maddening. I took a 6502 programming course in university, and the monitors were so old that they produced almost pain inducing levels of sound for me. If I hadn't found the course so fun and fascinating, I would have dropped out of the course. As it was, I just grinned and beared it. And this is simply because I had much better than average hearing when I was younger. I've noticed now that these things don't bother me so much anymore, so I can only assume that I finally lost my ability to hear those frequencies.

    4. Re:Typical by phantomfive · · Score: 2, Insightful

      No amount of industrial grade propaganda is going to change that. We learned from bad experiences that industry lies.

      So maybe you could get smart and listen to scientists instead of industry. Or better yet, do the research yourself and become knowledgeable.

      --
      Qxe4
  2. Luddites by Taco+Cowboy · · Score: 4, Insightful

    A lot of those so-called "radiation sensitive" people are nothing but Luddites in disguise.

    In Malaysia, there have been cases of communities in uproar, having many people claiming that they suffer from "excruciating painful headaches" to "cancer" and all that, just because there is a cellphone station nearby.

    Those "radiation sensitive" people demand that the authority remove those "radiation hotspots" immediately, and it turns out that, in some of those cases, the so-called "cellphone stations" haven't even begun operation and never emit any radiation !

    Luddites !

    --
    Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
    1. Re:Luddites by Idiomatick · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Thats a silly meme. We can disprove tons of things about religion.

      The power of prayer for example. It would be easy to set up a bunch of people to pray for one guy, not for another. Simple.

      We can prove that the bible is unreliable. We can show that a large portion of the bible is also immoral. This proves that God is either fallible or that he wanted to fuck us over by giving terrible instructions dooming a large chunk of the world. We can show that god is a giant asshole ... repeatedly. We can disprove the bible by contradiction a bunch of times. We can prove that the bible rips off other older religions (so either the real god ripped off someone else's good book and made it come true, or simply the people just ripped off the stories). We can disprove the time line. And so on...

      That list goes on for a long LONG time. Eventually the bible will have more holes in it than scarface. The source for the religion is completely worthless (btw, same goes for other well defined religions).

      And in the end what makes you think that the cellphone nuts have been more disproven than that? They could say there is extra interdimensional radiation, or undetectable amounts. Or it only affects them when they aren't being tested, who knows. It wouldn't be any crazier than religion, we are just less forgiving.

    2. Re:Luddites by nickspoon · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Name-calling isn't going to help anyone. The fact of the matter is, to some people hyperelectrosensitivity or whatever the buzzword is nowadays is a very real phenomenon. It has been shown pretty conclusively that the electromagnetic radiation itself does not cause the issues (in one study researchers used an inert box with blinking lights on it to produce the same effect), but that does not mean that the condition is unimportant, or not to be taken seriously. That would be like telling a schizophrenic "none of that stuff is real, shut up".

      Rather than laughing at these people, we should consider their problem a mental disorder and treat it accordingly. This does, of course, mean that you consider the condition the problem, not the EM sources.

    3. Re:Luddites by the_raptor · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You appear to have mistaken "logic" for naturalism. Logic is a method for arriving at a consistent response to a given set of data assuming certain axioms. That you believe that religious people even exists is a logical conclusion based on certain axioms. For example that the data from your senses is reliable and that what others tell you of their beliefs is true or can be inferred from their behaviour.

      There are libraries of theological works that can not be attacked on the logic of their arguments but only on the strengths of the axioms they assume and the data they use.

      I can see why you have failed in your attempts to convince religious people if you are that ignorant about the tool you are attempting to use.

      --

      ========
      CINC, 4th Penguin Legion
    4. Re:Luddites by wickerprints · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Invoking God is the religious equivalent to dividing by zero in mathematics. By claiming that an omniscient, omnipotent, everlasting deity is the reason why everything is the way it is, nothing is truly falsifiable and anything can be made to be true. It's pointless to try to convince someone that their faith is illogical, because the very act of belief is not rational.

    5. Re:Luddites by Philip_the_physicist · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Apart from the obvious cries of "Offtopic", I would like to add one thing:

      the so-called "holy laws" aren't even in the bible and never were sinful to begin with (homosexuality)!

      Lev. 18:22

      You do your cause no good by being completely wrong (and I say this as one who is pretty apathetic about religion).

      The 5.4GHz==harmful crazies are more of an immediate problem than religious crazies because getting something banned is a lot easier than getting it unbanned, and because these idiots like to dress their nonsense up as science far more than the religious ones, and psuedoscience is potentially very harmful to our society, if it ever gets hold.

    6. Re:Luddites by Low+Ranked+Craig · · Score: 2, Insightful

      but that does not mean that the condition is unimportant, or not to be taken seriously.

      I think in this case that's exactly what it means.

      --
      I still cannot find the droids I am looking for...
    7. Re:Luddites by ldconfig · · Score: 2, Informative

      In the south you can/do lose your job house and friends if you come out of the closet as a non-believer. In Tennessee and some other states you can't run for elected office unless you pass the religious test. Article IX, Sec. 2, of the Tennessee constitution (engagingly titled "No Atheist shall hold a civil office"): "No person who denies the being of God, or a future state of rewards and punishments shall hold any office in the civil department of this state."

      --
      The spelling and grammar police can kiss my ass
  3. Reasons I'm Not Reading This by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    1: "GQ"
    2: "PopSci"
    3: The entire summary reads like a news announcer sounds. I can actually hear in my head as I read it, my inner voice's pitch changes exactly like a certain bored-out-of-her-skull Asian Reporter.
    4: kdawson :(
    5: ...
    6: Profit! (wouldn't be a list on /. without it!)

  4. Re:"Promote" It? by MaskedSlacker · · Score: 4, Funny

    not finish your sentences?

  5. For all those hyper-electrosensitives out there by Opportunist · · Score: 5, Funny

    Check out your pharmacy. I'm fairly sure there are some Bach flowers tinctures available by now that can cure the problem. If everything fails, get a few healing crystals.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    1. Re:For all those hyper-electrosensitives out there by Philip_the_physicist · · Score: 2, Funny

      I don't think that's how you're supposed to use them, but whatever floats your boat...

  6. On the other hand... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    the other han,d there is a tremendous psychological incentive here to wishfully believe that there is no danger-- because the proposition that cellphone radiation near your head (or wifi for that matter) actually is dangerous leads to thoughts horrific to contemplate-- namely that you'd have to stop/reduce the amount of calls you do, or worse, to live in a wifi-less world.

    I strongly suspect that people are more likely to believe things that do not challenge/threaten their current lifestyle (or whatever it is that makes the money).

    So I wonder if any of that bias leads to a more ready dismissal of the cellphone/cancer danger. As Lessig said in his latest website chat, 75% of studies not funded by the cellphone industry found evidence for a connection.

    1. Re:On the other hand... by Gordonjcp · · Score: 5, Insightful

      As Lessig said in his latest website chat, 75% of studies not funded by the cellphone industry found evidence for a connection.

      As a matter of interest, who *were* they funded by? People with an interest in proving a link between RF from mobile phones and cancer?

    2. Re:On the other hand... by Gordonjcp · · Score: 2, Funny

      they've all been whackjobs who wouldn't know what science was even if you served it to them on a plate with a sprig of parsley on it.

      They're allergic to parsley, you insensitive clod!

    3. Re:On the other hand... by Antaeus+Feldspar · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The problem is that class-action litigation is also an industry, and that industry is just as capable of commissioning "studies" not to discover scientific truth but to create a useful appearance.

      In fact, I'd say litigation is more capable of doing so, given that they can win victories far more easily with useful appearances. If "Big Doohickey" discovers that doohickeys causes a serious risk of seizure, they will have to try to keep everyone fooled that there's no danger, for as long as they're selling doohickeys, and they know that at any time, some researcher will look for themselves and discover the truth. By contrast, if the law firm of Dewey, Cheatham and Howe says "hey, we've got a bunch of loonballs here who claim doohickeys are causing seizures; I think we could rake in a lot of cash from the pockets of Big Doohickey if we represent them in court," they can commission scientific-looking studies which appear to show a doohickey-seizure connection, and there's probably less than twenty people in the world who have to be sold on the idea that these studies have some sort of validity: those are the judge(s) or jur(ies) hearing the case. And they only have to keep up the appearance long enough to get a favorable verdict or settlement.

      The litigation industry definitely produced dodgy scholarship to push a lawsuit in the case of the MMR vaccine (think Andrew Wakefield)) and there's evidence strongly suggesting that it has done so in the case of the alleged cellphone-cancer effect. For example, take a look at the Myung meta-review of cell-phone/cancer studies, where the author declared that even though the overall review of the chosen studies had failed to establish any sort of convincing evidence that cell phones caused cancer, a "sub-group" of "high-quality" studies established a "significant positive association". What the meta-review may have failed to call attention to, however, was that seven out of the eight "high-quality" studies were all done by the same researchers, a group led by Dr. Lennart Hardell, and that Hardell is frequently retained as an expert witness in lawsuits against cell-phone companies. Just because "the cellphone industry" isn't the industry funding a study, doesn't mean that study isn't funded by an industry or twisted to serve that industry's agenda.

      --
      If people are to respect the law, perhaps the law should begin by respecting the people.
    4. Re:On the other hand... by agrif · · Score: 2, Informative

      As Lessig said in his latest website chat, 75% of studies not funded by the cellphone industry found evidence for a connection.

      I would like say that (as I understand it) Lessig pointed this out to get the obvious reaction from his audience ("Oh wow, the cell phone industry is trying to lie to us!"). He wanted to point out that this is the reaction people always have when they see something like this, and to examine what in our society causes that mistrust and how we may be able to fix it. He uses this specifically when he talks about corporate funding for political campaigns, later on.

  7. "unable to detect radiation"? by BitterKraut · · Score: 2, Interesting

    So x-rays must be completely harmless if I can't "detect" them? Think of airplane noise, as it is permanent near large airports. Would be ridiculous to claim it seeds tumors in human bodies. It just disturbs attentiveness, concentration, calmness, sleep. If you are a sensitive person, these disturbances may severely affect your quality of life. Noises can be heard, i.e., "detected", so there's no dispute as to the possible harm they can do. But how adequate are these criteria? Consciousness is not a system monitor. It is a bonus that some species were endowed with. The human body is not a robot. Our physiological systems were not designed. They're not just modules with interfaces. Their behaviour is not just determined by a set of formal rules and a specified input. They're not circuit boards. When our bodies and their functions gradually evolved in nature's history, they were not exposed to electromagnetic fields of the quality that is in question now. As long as life is not understood (and it isn't, unless we'll have succeeded in building living cells from scratch), it is not unreasonable to be cautious. The cancer claim is notorious because any lesser claim is not shocking enough to make it to the news. It is a suicide bomb of reputation: You get some attention at the expense of credibility.

    1. Re:"unable to detect radiation"? by BitterKraut · · Score: 2, Insightful

      There is no scientific way of deciding what is worth preserving and what isn't. That's why we have politics. To ridicule the cautious has always been a political strategy. Sometimes it was necessary for progress, sometimes it led to desaster. Those who think they know the outcome in advance are just as superstitious as the overly-cautious.

    2. Re:"unable to detect radiation"? by Eudial · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The people unable to detect the cellphone radiation are people who claim to get headaches and whatnot from said radiation. If there is no correlation between reported headaches and actual presence of radiation, then obviously that is a relevant find suggesting that the headaches are in fact not related to cellphones or electronics.

      --
      GAAH! MY PRINTER IS ON FIRE!!! PUT IT OUT! PUT IT OUT!
  8. Too easy just saying luddites (was: Re:Luddites) by beh · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Obviously, yes, there are those people claiming hypersensitivity, basing it simply on their fear of the radiation getting to their bodies.

    But, I wouldn't go as far as saying that there is no danger at all because of them, much the same way I wouldn't conclude the radiation being dangerous if non of these people claimed hypersensitivity.

    The question to me comes down to long-term exposure damage, which we cannot much about yet - and it would be difficult to force companies into very long term safety tests before being allowed to market their devices. But I do feel that the subject should stay under investigation for longer.

    In the time after WW-II, US armed forces tested how their troops could fight near the blast of a nuclear weapon - and, hey, pretty much everyone was healthy in the first tests afterwards. Cancers don't measurably spring up within hours of a test. Still, you have claims from soldiers claiming their cancers were caused by those events decades later...

    In Germany, soldiers working on mobile radars are trying to get compensations for tumors they seem to have received by operating the radar devices. Yet, I bet you, on the first tests of those, there were no permanent health problems reported in the days/weeks after the initial tests.

    Most famously, big tobacco - your first cigarette isn't clearly measurable the one killing you. Neither is the second, third, twenty-first or onehundredfifthyfourths the lethal one. There is no doubt left about cigarettes being lethal now, but big tobacco made lots of profits over the years by claiming that cigarettes are safe, and that noone could ever link any individual cigarette to lung cancer. And it's still the argument used now by smokers against 'too heavy handed' anti-smoking legislation - why should smoking be banned in pubs. Let non-smokers go somewhere else. Or - more ridiculously, smokers in some countries (like the UK) actually claiming it's breaching their human rights if you prohibited them from lighting up in public. (Who cares about the human rights of the non-smoker next to him, if noone can prove it was 'my' cigarette that gave him lung cancer)?

    Neither of those examples can obviously prove whether there is cellphone tower radiation is harmful; much the way that the luddites trying to raise panic about them can prove their harmful, nor that their existence proves cell phone radiation harmless.

    What I would wish for - is that the subject stays under some form of independent investigation - without any lobbying from either side. (don't see though, how that could ever happen)

  9. My take by Artem+S.+Tashkinov · · Score: 2, Interesting

    A critic in me reckons that increased cancer levels (if there are any) may be attributed to overall worsened environment conditions (pollution, etc.), decreased food quality (and mass usage of food additives) and mass hysteria related to the risks of adverse health effects caused by EMF radiation.

    Anyway, I really believe anyone can make his life safer (as for now God really knows if EMF radiation can interact with our own electric fields) by using mobile phone as little as possible - I speak on my cellular for no more than two minutes a day.

  10. Re:i'm safe by MichaelSmith · · Score: 3, Informative

    Bone alignment? Do you really think your bones can get out of alignment without leaving their sockets? If you are having problems with your bones go to your doctor, not a chiropractor.

    Bones don't generally have sockets to fit into. Believe me. I broke my humerus in July last year and I have the X-Rays to prove it. Speaking generally our bodies are held together with string. The tension on the string varies dynamically and tries to keep everything fitting together.

    When I started getting knee pain from cycling I consulted several doctors. They all suggested I wrap a bandage around the knee and wait for it to get better. It didn't.

    Then I went to a bike shop which caters to the racing crowd and they helped me get the bike fitted properly. They sold me some gear to help with that. They also recommended an osteopath to see. This particular person is a bike rider too, and understands the injuries you can get.

    So between the bike fit and a bit of help from the osteopath my condition improved. A doctor who did a lot of bike riding may have helped as well, but I wasn't lucky enough to meet one of those.

  11. If it's a balanced perspective you want... by macraig · · Score: 4, Funny

    ... then I guess we'd better wait for the Fox News coverage! They'll be fair, too!

    Glenn Beck: "What I wanna know is, why don't these cell phone companies deny this rumor that their phones are cooking my brain? I'm not saying my brain is actually fried, but it sure feels that way and why won't they deny it?"

  12. Depends what you mean by an atomic bond by Kupfernigk · · Score: 3, Informative
    Microwaves can definitely break hydrogen bonds. (You can boil water in a microwave oven.) Therefore they could, in principle, disrupt proteins. However, in order to do this, considerable energy is needed; you need to reach temperatures over 40C in human beings, an increase of 3 degrees over normal body temperature.

    The issue is one of penetration. For the radiation from cell phones this is very low. The depth affected is comparable to that which is warmed by, for instance, sunshine. Except for a cell phone close to the ear - where most of the heating comes from the battery and the electronics getting warm - the effect from all combined sources is very small, much smaller than the effect of sunshine or even an incandescent lamp a couple of meters away.

    So, barring the discovery of some kind of magic effect, the conclusion has to be that the risk is negligible because the absorbed radiation is infinitesimally small compared to the energy absorbed from the other wavelengths of incident radiation.

    You get much more penetration for lower frequency radiation - up to VHF - than for microwaves, and for the best part of a hundred years we have been exposing people to rather high doses of it. The radiation from the converter stages of a superhet radio or a VHF/UHF television greatly exceeds what you get from wi-fi or your DECT phone. But strangely, nobody suffered from headaches as a result of listening to AM radios, perhaps because they did not know that radio and TV receivers actually emitted radiation, often at several volts per meter.

    --
    From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."
  13. Re:i'm safe by drewlake2000 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    osteopath != chiropractor.

  14. Re:Too easy just saying luddites (was: Re:Luddites by sjames · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Or - more ridiculously, smokers in some countries (like the UK) actually claiming it's breaching their human rights if you prohibited them from lighting up in public. (Who cares about the human rights of the non-smoker next to him, if noone can prove it was 'my' cigarette that gave him lung cancer)?

    The problem is the anti-smoking crowd are verging into ever more tenuous territory. Some seem to believe that seeing someone downwind smoke is a hazard to their health. They also seem to be unconcerned about the dozens of cars spewing a great deal more toxic gasses right next to both them and the smoker. They do this without even a shred of a study showing that cigarette smoke in an open public space is the least bit harmful to passers by. Much like the anti microwave loonies, many will start coughing at the mere sight of a cigarette even when it's not lit.

    Perversely, many of those anti smoking people also fight vigorously against any other form of nicotine intake, and for that matter, against people using nicotine in their own home. Like the anti EM loonies, the anti smoking loonies believe that nicotine=smoking=bad, just like microwaves=radiation=bad.

    That isn't to say that the smoker isn't harmed by smoking nor that the radar techs weren't harmed. Both get a MUCH larger dose.