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Bill Gates No Longer World's Richest Man

alphadogg writes "Riding surging prices of his various telecom holdings, including giant mobile outfit America Movil, Mexican tycoon Carlos Slim Helu has beaten out Americans Bill Gates and Warren Buffett to become the wealthiest person on earth and nab the top spot on the 2010 Forbes list of the World's Billionaires." I'd still let the guy buy me dinner if he's ever in my town. He's probably still good for it even though he's fallen on hard times.

66 of 413 comments (clear)

  1. Wonderful news by elrous0 · · Score: 5, Insightful
    FTA:

    Indeed, last year's wealth wasteland has become a billionaire bonanza. Most of the richest people on the planet have seen their fortunes soar in the past year.

    When I'm laid off and searching garbage cans for food, it will bring me great comfort to know that at least someone is doing well.

    --
    SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    1. Re:Wonderful news by NotQuiteReal · · Score: 3, Insightful

      When I'm laid off and searching garbage cans for food, it will bring me great comfort to know that at least someone is doing well.

      It should, because if everyone were poor the world would be an even nastier place.

      --
      This issue is a bit more complicated than you think.
    2. Re:Wonderful news by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 5, Funny

      Don't worry, Saint Reagan gives you his word that it will all trickle down eventually, if only your faith is pure and your marginal tax rate low...

    3. Re:Wonderful news by WrongSizeGlass · · Score: 4, Funny

      When I read the headline I thought that maybe, just maybe, I'd moved up one position on the list. But alas, I'm still ranked at number 2,371,409,586. Maybe next year.

    4. Re:Wonderful news by wh1pp3t · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Don't worry, Saint Reagan gives you his word that it will all trickle down eventually, if only your faith is pure and your marginal tax rate low...

      IMHO, Reaganomics works only in a country where manufacturing is a strong industry (where the workers of the nation are actually needed); sadly, the USA no longer significantly 'makes' anything.

    5. Re:Wonderful news by maxume · · Score: 2

      The U.S. billionaires have a combined wealth of about $1.4 trillion.

      Medicare and social security spending last year was about $1.15 trillion (those aren't actually particularly good proxies for 'not wealthy', but they do illustrate where a good chunk of the U.S. GDP goes). It is somewhat safe to assume that poor and middle class people spent $4 or $5 trillion.

      So the super wealthy certainly benefit more than everyone else, but it is absurd to assert that they are keeping other people poor when their combined wealth, earned over lifetimes, is much less than 'normal' (by any reasonable measure) Americans spend each year.

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    6. Re:Wonderful news by elrous0 · · Score: 2

      I know it's really stretching the definition of "anything," but we still make movies and TV shows. Without the hard working people of American there would be no "Deuce Bigalow: Male Gigolo" or "Jersey Shore."

      --
      SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    7. Re:Wonderful news by Lumpy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It should, because if everyone were poor the world would be an even nastier place.

      news flash 90% are poor. and the world IS a nasty place. because you live in a very rich country and dont see reality means you really have no idea.

      Go spend 1 week with the poor of India, or in Afganastan, China, Korea, Russia, Mongolia, or anyplace in South america or Africa. THAT is poor, and that is what most of the people on this planet live like.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    8. Re:Wonderful news by cheesybagel · · Score: 2, Informative

      Aren't a lot of TV shows made in Canada?

    9. Re:Wonderful news by Nerdposeur · · Score: 4, Interesting

      It doesn't bring a lot of comfort to the Mexicans in that situation. When I lived in Guadalajara, I was a short walk from a row of luxury car dealerships: Porsche, Lexus, Audi, BMW, etc. And I was a short bus ride from people living in dirt floor houses and not eating enough (I was involved in a Christian ministry to some of them).

      I'm pretty conservative in general, but that doesn't seem like a healthy economy. It's not encouraging to think that the world's wealthiest person got that way through monopoly deals with a corrupt government whose citizenry is mostly poor.

    10. Re:Wonderful news by bberens · · Score: 4, Funny

      Yes, but in all fairness... we have Detroit.

      --
      Check out my lame java blog at www.javachopshop.com
    11. Re:Wonderful news by mspohr · · Score: 5, Insightful
      And I guess that this is a good place to point out that Carlo Slim, the worlds richest man, made his money by having monopoly control of telecoms in Mexico (a poor country) and cell phones in 11 countries in Latin America (all poor). He is getting rich by collecting monopoly rents from the poor. Isn't crony capitalism wonderful?

      Just think what good could come if he was not sucking all of that money out of all of those poor economies. They might even be able to save and invest and grow their economies. Instead, Carlos uses the money to expand into banking and other areas to make even more money for himself.

      --
      I don't read your sig. Why are you reading mine?
    12. Re:Wonderful news by PPalmgren · · Score: 3, Funny

      Buffet often laments that his company has so much money that it's difficult to maintain good returns through investments.

      If you see him, please let him know that I can fix that problem for him.

    13. Re:Wonderful news by TheKidWho · · Score: 2, Informative

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_exports

      We are #3 behind China and Germany, who both produce 20% more than we do for exports.

      As far as raw manufacturing goes, USA is far ahead in the #1 position.

      http://investing.curiouscatblog.net/2008/09/23/top-manufacturing-countries-in-2007/

    14. Re:Wonderful news by bberens · · Score: 3, Funny

      Whoosh!

      --
      Check out my lame java blog at www.javachopshop.com
    15. Re:Wonderful news by L4t3r4lu5 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      A friend of mine came back from Russia after studying there for 6 months. In that time she mostly stayed with one Russian family.

      This family grew their own vegetables in an allotment. What they didn't eat, they pickled. When the pickled food was eaten, they drank the vinegar. They couldn't afford to waste it.

      As a parting gift, the lady of the house made a pair of socks from the hair of the household dog and gave them to my friend. This was an extremely kind gift, as it meant that the lady was left with last year's dog hair socks.

      We have it so good.

      --
      Finally had enough. Come see us over at https://soylentnews.org/
    16. Re:Wonderful news by Herby+Sagues · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Actually, I think it is awesome that at least one of them is spending his money on helping the really poor people of the world to become a bit less poor, healthier and safer.

    17. Re:Wonderful news by spammeister · · Score: 4, Funny

      Well at least Detroit has south Detroit.

      --
      I tried to think of a good sig, and this wasn't it.
    18. Re:Wonderful news by QuantumRiff · · Score: 5, Funny

      Thats not a fair comparison, in many of the poor areas that were mentioned above (afganastan, mongolia, etc) you are much less likely to get shot.

      --

      What are we going to do tonight Brain?
    19. Re:Wonderful news by dkleinsc · · Score: 4, Interesting

      IMHO, Reaganomics works only in a country where manufacturing is a strong industry (where the workers of the nation are actually needed); sadly, the USA no longer significantly 'makes' anything.

      Except that there's no evidence it works there either. There's a lot of reason to think that the whole trickle-down theory was created to accomplish two things:
        1. Tax cuts and other benefits for rich political supporters.
        2. Reduction of federal tax revenues to the point where the federal government can no longer function (Grover Norquist's "drown it in a bathtub").

      I've attended talks by Arthur Laffer (one of the guys who came up with trickle-down theory), and determined after a little while that it was a really superbly designed pile of BS.

      --
      I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
    20. Re:Wonderful news by JSBiff · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I just have to ask. . . generally speaking, the wealth of people on the Forbes' list is comprised *mostly* of equity holdings in companies (that is, Bill Gates is worth 53 Billion, but he doesn't have that in cash - most of it is stock in Microsoft and other companies).

      Is that not true of Carlos Slim, too? If that is true, is it really so aweful that the man has built up his companies? Is he NOT helping the economies of those nations by providing them with critical telecoms?

      "Instead, Carlos uses the money to expand into banking and other areas to make even more money for himself."

      How is building up more companies not beneficial to the economies of those nations? If he makes even more money for himself, and then turns around and yet again invests it into *more* businesses, is that not helping the countries where those businesses operate?

      I'm not saying I necessarily think the guy is a Saint. But, I've come to believe that in the world of economics, there's basically no such thing as a company which *only* benefits its owners. That said, I suppose it is possible that if the guy is price gouging people, he might be hurting more than he is helping - but I honestly don't know that is the case.

      You can't just say that because someone is very rich, that they are hurting the economy that they are getting rich as part of. That strikes me as a bit of an oversimplification.

    21. Re:Wonderful news by alexborges · · Score: 5, Informative

      Look here is the plain truth:

      Slim was rich before he bought telmex. Around 100 times poorer than he is now, but Im sure you or I could be 100 times poorer than him and still live happy and full lives for us and our descendants (we would own round 500 million bucks!). Slim bought telmex though from President Carlos Salinas (from his government, it was a state owned telephone company which sucked even more than it does now and BOY, does it SUCK NOW), for if I remember correctly round 2000 million dollars, on credit. Which is in its face ridiculous if its the local telephone monopoly of a country of a 100 million people.... and you can see it in the numbers. Telmex sold that ammount every year or two I think, even in its early stages. Right now, Slims empire is MUCH larger than that since they own the cellphone market in many, many latam countries.

      Here in Mexico EVERYONE know that its MOST probable that Salinas, the expresident, had his cut from that deal. But we also know that Slim generally has a simple profit minded stance on just about anything. At least he is not crying because gay marriage was aproved for mexico city like other conservative rich men here, at least he gives to the politicall parties and politicians only with profit in mind and not because of an ideological agenda. Belive me, entrepreneurs in Mexico are every bit as crooked when it comes to giving or taking from the government AND they tend to have a moralist agenda. Slim doesnt do that and, for that, at least I am gratefull at least until we finish fixing this fucking country for good.

      --
      NO SIG
    22. Re:Wonderful news by mspohr · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I think the key term here is "monopoly rents". If there was a free market, there would be competition, lower prices, less profit for Carlos, and the poor would get to keep more money to grow and invest in their own economy. Instead, the excess monopoly rents go to Carlos who uses it to go into banking, for example, another area where he can bilk the poor (as our own developed country bankers have shown the way so clearly).

      --
      I don't read your sig. Why are you reading mine?
    23. Re:Wonderful news by AndersOSU · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Billionaire is a much poorer proxy for "really wealthy" than medicare and social security are for "not wealthy." The fact of the matter is that the top quartile controls ~90% of the wealth in the US, the remaining 10% is contained almost entirely in the upper reaches of the second quartile. (the bottom quartile has negative wealth)

      So the real effect of the fortunes of the 403 billionaires in this country is less keeping people poor and more keeping rich people from becoming super-rich. It's the top 10% as a whole that is keeping other people poor. More troubling is the direction of the trend. Real median income has decreased since the '70s, whereas the income of the 95th percentile has risen exponentially.

    24. Re:Wonderful news by AndersOSU · · Score: 4, Informative

      I know you're a self-righeous capitalist, but please read what you responded too. The problem isn't that he's getting rich, the problem is that he's doing it by extracting monopoly rents. A few people getting rich is a good thing, because it spurs investment. One person getting rich by cornering the market is a bad thing, whether your a Marxist or an Austrian, it doesn't result in re-investment, it results in impoverishment of everyone - except that one guy.

    25. Re:Wonderful news by Forge · · Score: 3, Informative

      It's not just stocks. In a recession a lot of things are under-priced and being sold for what everyone involved knows is way below value.

      I.e. An apartment building which is priced based on the rent collected may be sold for 50% of it's value even thogh it's still full of paying tenants. If the guy who bought it just put 10% down, he makes a 1000% return on his investment. Let me break it down.

      Purchase price $1000
      Loan $900
      Cash invested $100
      Value $2000
      Equity $1100
      Profit 1000%


      All the people with both money and brains have been on a buying frenzy since 2008 because deals like this are available if you have the $100 down-payment. (It's more like $100,000,000 most of the time. I just dropped 0s to simplify)

      --
      --= Isn't it surprising how badly I spell ?
    26. Re:Wonderful news by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 4, Informative

      Wow, you did manage to get things so wrong...

      This family grew their own vegetables in an allotment. What they didn't eat, they pickled. When the pickled food was eaten, they drank the vinegar. They couldn't afford to waste it.

      I very much doubt it was actually vinegar that they drank, since it's not exactly something you can drink in the first place. In any case, pickling (in vinegar) at home is actually extremely rare in Russia - most pickled vegetables are bought in stores. Home-made ones are brined instead, with no vinegar involved - just water, salt, and spices.

      The liquid that is produced as a result is essentially salted water flavored with the vegetables put into it, and is called "rassol" in Russian. It's generally considered tasty in its own right, and is also a traditional, ages-old treatment for hangover. So drinking it does not, in any way, indicate that the family is poor.

      Pickling/brining itself, too, is not an indicator of that, by the way - it's often done for the fun of it. My family isn't poor at all, and yet my grandmother both grows her own vegetables, and pickles them for the winter.

      As a parting gift, the lady of the house made a pair of socks from the hair of the household dog and gave them to my friend. This was an extremely kind gift, as it meant that the lady was left with last year's dog hair socks.

      Dog hair socks are ascribed various medicinal qualities in Russian folklore, so they are made and worn for the sake of that, not to replace common everyday socks. Furthermore, because those socks have to be hand-made, they aren't replaced all that often. I've had a pair back home which was several years old.

      Note that this all doesn't mean that the family your friend stayed with wasn't poor. They may well be, and there are definitely a lot of poor people in Russia. It's just that nothing that you mentioned so far is an indicator of that.

      Oh, and Russia today is still way better than Mexico in terms of quality of life. In fact, depending on one's location, it's better than many Eastern European EU member countries.

    27. Re:Wonderful news by jqpublic13 · · Score: 2, Funny

      You mean Windsor, Ontario?

      --
      Non calor sed umor est qui nobis incommodat.
    28. Re:Wonderful news by Grishnakh · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You must be an American. These days, only Americans think that monopolies are a good thing. They're much like the old-style Soviets that way, except they're completely blind to the similarities.

    29. Re:Wonderful news by SeePage87 · · Score: 2, Informative

      This assumes he can sell it for that much right away. If he holds the property until it goes back up to $2000, then profits is a misleading metric. IRR would be better, but that decreases as the length of the investment increases, like if he needs to wait to sell the place, so things don't look as good as you might think.

      Of course while he's waiting he gets to collect rent, so that will help a bit. But he also has to pay to maintain the building, pay interest on the loan (which will carry a high rate because banks aren't giving loans easily right now, especially with only 10% down). Don't forget insurance. And, of course, if any of your tenants can't pay rent, or they move, then you'll lose at least 1 month rent from them and have to go through the process of getting a new tenant, which may prove difficult if you want to get as much as the last person paid, a monthly rate that was set pre-recession. Oh, and don't forget taxes, and not just the taxes on your rental income, but also property taxes which are based on property value and may have an assessed value a great deal higher than you purchased the property for. Point: there's a reason these buildings are so cheap.

  2. Bill, look for the 500 million! by spammeister · · Score: 4, Funny

    I'm sure he has 500 million in loose change lost in his couches.

    --
    I tried to think of a good sig, and this wasn't it.
    1. Re:Bill, look for the 500 million! by ozmanjusri · · Score: 2, Funny
      Unless he's reselling the cocaine for profit, it's a liability.

      At least it'd be a familiar business model for him.

      --
      "I've got more toys than Teruhisa Kitahara."
  3. Man.. by Pojut · · Score: 3, Insightful

    ...when people's losses equal more money than I will EVER have in my entire life...I become a sad panda :(

  4. Hard times? by clone53421 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Slim's fortune has swelled to an estimated $53.5 billion, up $18.5 billion in 12 months.

    Gates, now worth $53 billion, is ranked second in the world. He is up $13 billion from a year ago

    And now, the $0.5 million question: How much money does Gates give to charity?

    --
    Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
    1. Re:Hard times? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      Slim's fortune has swelled to an estimated $53.5 billion, up $18.5 billion in 12 months.

      Gates, now worth $53 billion, is ranked second in the world. He is up $13 billion from a year ago

      And now, the $0.5 million question: How much money does Gates give to charity?

      According to the Wikipedia page on the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation, the foundation donates $1.5 billion per year. And a BusinessWeek estimate lists Gates as having donated $28.1 billion over his whole life.

    2. Re:Hard times? by auric_dude · · Score: 2, Informative

      Bill and Melinda's charity works can be seen via http://www.gatesfoundation.org/Pages/home.aspx or via the wiki version http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_&_Melinda_Gates_Foundation - take your pick.

    3. Re:Hard times? by ShadowRangerRIT · · Score: 2, Informative

      You do realize that you can't actually gain money by donating to charity? Under absolute maximum tax bracket circumstances (for WA state), every dollar he gives to charity means he gets a deduction worth a little under 37 cents. And if most of his earnings are now classed as long term capital gains (highly likely), then the deduction is only worth 15 cents on the dollar. Giving to charity means you give a little less to the government in exchange for giving a lot more to a charitable cause. It's not some magical tax dodge.

      --
      $_ = "wftedskaebjgdpjgidbsmnjgcdwatb"; tr/a-z/oh, turtleneck Phrase Jar!/; print
    4. Re:Hard times? by Score+Whore · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Let me guess, you've never in your life made a tax deductible charitable donation have you? Here is why I think that:

      Let's say you have an income of $10. And your tax rate is 30%. So if you just pay your taxes and make no charitable donations, you'll pay $3 in taxes leaving you with $7.

      Now let's say that you have that same $10 income. The same 30% tax rate. Now say you donate $5 to charity, deduct that amount from your income and pay your taxes on the remaining amount. So $10 minus $5 leaves you with $5. In the US there is a cap on deductible donations, say $2 is the max you can deduct. So when it comes time to pay taxes, even though you donated $5, you only get to deduct $2 of that amount. You must take your remaining $5 and pay taxes on an income of $8, which leaves you with $2.6 in your pocket ($10 - $5 - $8 x .3 = $2.6).

      The reality is that you always have less money in your pocket after making a deductible donation than if you'd just paid your full tax liability. You don't make charitable donations in order to keep more of your money for yourself, it just doesn't work that way.

    5. Re:Hard times? by ShadowRangerRIT · · Score: 5, Informative

      No, you can't. That's flat out wrong. This is a common misunderstanding of the progressive tax system. Just because your maximum bracket is 35% doesn't mean you pay 35% on your entire income. You pay 35% on the income *above* the previous bracket. Anything below that line is taxed at the lower brackets. For 2009, the first $8,350 of a single person's income is taxed at 10%, then 15% for the amount between $8,351– $33,950, 25% for $33,951 – $82,250, etc. This is the case no matter how much they earn.

      --
      $_ = "wftedskaebjgdpjgidbsmnjgcdwatb"; tr/a-z/oh, turtleneck Phrase Jar!/; print
    6. Re:Hard times? by infinite9 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The problem with this is that many very wealthy people create their own charities. Since it's your charity, you can control who controls it. And it's likely that the tax money saved by donating to the charity will be at least partially made up by the charity spending money on things you would have spent money on anyway. The result is that your effective tax rate is lower.

      Using your example, why not donate $2 to a charity you control, have it spend 10c on something charitable, and have $1.90 go to pay for that vacation villa you want that lets disadvantaged children stay there every once in a while when you're gone anyway? There's rules governing how a charity can spend its money. But there are a lot of ways to game the system.

      I'm not accusing Bill Gates of doing this. It looks as though he really is being charitable. But don't assume that every wealthy person who gives to charity is doing so out of altruism.

      --
      Disconnect your television. Do your own research. Draw your own conclusions. They're probably lying. Don't be a sheep.
  5. Donation Form by spruce · · Score: 4, Funny

    Hearing this news saddened me at first, then it angered me into action. I've setup an online donation fund here. With a small $50 weekly donation from 30 or 40 million of you, Bill can continue to live the kind of life he's used to. Won't somebody think of Bill Gate's children!

  6. So... by Swampash · · Score: 5, Interesting

    California's bankrupt and the richest man in the world is Mexican?

    Lovin' them apples.

  7. Don't worry.... by Chineseyes · · Score: 2, Informative

    Don't worry, Carlos Slim is a generous man, he'll give Bill Gates some side work till he gets back on his feet.

    On a more serious note, we now have more millionaires and billionaires than at any other time in the history of the world! The wealth is trickling down baby!

    --
    I think the invisible hand of the market has its middle finger extended

    --A wise old fart named SC0RN
    1. Re:Don't worry.... by rolfwind · · Score: 4, Informative

      On a more serious note, we now have more millionaires and billionaires than at any other time in the history of the world! The wealth is trickling down baby!

      While I'm sure that there is more economic activity than ever before, since a dollar today is worth less than 4 cents in 1913 -- being a millionaire is not exactly the same accomplishment as back then. It's more equivalent to being having $25 million today.

  8. Mr Monopoly by FriendlyLurker · · Score: 2, Informative

    TelMex controls 92% of the landline phones in the country and his affiliate cell phone business, Telcel, accounts for 73% of the mobile business. The wealth and power derived from these companies has allowed Slim to expand his business empire across a wide swathe of industries."

    Monopolies are obviously highly profitable for a few. Besides the economic cost to the those funding el imperio de Carlo Slim Helu, have the Mexicans actually weighed up the social costs of supporting it?. ...Or is it that the Mexicans do not have a government that represents their best interests...?

  9. $28.144 billion by denzacar · · Score: 3, Informative
    --
    Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
  10. Interesting quote by NoNeeeed · · Score: 2

    "last year's wealth wasteland has become a billionaire bonanza. Most of the richest people on the planet have seen their fortunes soar in the past year. "

    I'm no communist, but something sticks in my craw when I realise how many of the very richest (both corporations, banks and individuals) have done so well out of the recent financial woes that have destroyed the lives of so many people.

    I can't help thinking that we are lining up for a political "readjustment" in many countries if the current situation continues. The gap between the very richest and everyone else is growing wider, and the theory of "trickle-down" just isn't holding up, those at the bottom are still being shafted.

  11. Re:Who? by rvw · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Who?

    He doesn't care that you don't know him.

  12. So, the Rich got richer this year... by tekrat · · Score: 5, Insightful

    And the poor got poorer. Nothing new to see here, move along.

    It's criminal, though isn't it? Millions of people are out of work, thousands are losing their homes, a majority of Americans have so little in savings that a single illness can put them over the edge into poverty, and yet, all these guys, despite a huge recession, saw their fortunes go UP.

    Go figure.

    --
    If telephones are outlawed, then only outlaws will have telephones.
    1. Re:So, the Rich got richer this year... by clone53421 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Making money isn’t “criminal” and I, for one, hope it never will be.

      --
      Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
    2. Re:So, the Rich got richer this year... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Making money may not be criminal, but making lots of money usually is.
      Please show me a billionaire that didn't pull illegal and criminal acts to get where they are.

      From Carlos Slim and Bill Gates, to Russia's modern day oligarchs, to the robber barons and old money families ruling America today - there just aren't that many people who become that rich without being immoral, oppressive criminals. Some hide it better than others; some attempt to buy their reputations back with acts of charity; but don't think they are anything like the rest of us.

    3. Re:So, the Rich got richer this year... by ElectricTurtle · · Score: 2, Informative

      Keep repeating that pithy little lie, and maybe someday in an alternate universe it will be true.

      But not here.

      --
      I support the Slashcott and will not be reading or commenting from 2/10/14 to 2/17/14. Beta is steaming pile of dog shit
    4. Re:So, the Rich got richer this year... by cheesybagel · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Depends on how you make the money. A lot of people used to get rich at one time doing slave trade.

    5. Re:So, the Rich got richer this year... by HeckRuler · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Well if you figure out how to bring yourself up without:
      -Employing people at wage-slave levels
      -Influencing markets to better suit yourself
      -Taking money from others

      Then I'm all for you. Good luck. Most rich people don't do it on their own, so they employ people to do stuff for them. Rich people didn't get rich by paying their employees. Most rich people control their market to some extent. Power is worth more then money because it can make you money. As for the last part, realize that simply receiving money from others is bringing them down. Presumably, whatever they paid you for is worth more to them then they buck they paid for it, but this whole capitalism thing is a vicious cycle of clawing your way up at the expense of others. If you're at the top, it's more then likely you're standing on someone's neck.

  13. Did he earn it? by overlordofmu · · Score: 3, Insightful

    In America, greed is a game. Sure, Gates, Buffet and rich asshole #1 have money.

    Question: Did they earn it?
    Answer: No. They played a game well and have received a cash prize.

    No man does 53 billion dollar of work. He games the system so the incremental profits of the workers at the bottom of the pyramid trickle up into his pockets.

    If you disagree, you are wrong. The truth in the paragraph above is undeniable by clear-minded, rational people. However, fear of socialism fueled the Cold War, was the justification of the US war in Viet Nam, the US funding and training of death squad in Nicaragua, and is the rational for the current Cuba embargo. Oh, and fear of socialism is the primary undercurrent to keep healthcare in America as a luxury only the wealthy can afford.

    America is a fucked up mess. Capitalism is a fallacy.

    1. Re:Did he earn it? by tophermeyer · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Question: Did they earn it? Answer: No. They played a game well and have received a cash prize. No man does 53 billion dollar of work. He games the system so the incremental profits of the workers at the bottom of the pyramid trickle up into his pockets.

      Seriously? So the people that found and build successful organizations cannot be said to have "worked" for their success. Gates may no longer be directly involved in production, he is no longer coding or developing, but that is not to say that he didn't "work". He earned his success.

      He games the system so the incremental profits of the workers at the bottom of the pyramid trickle up into his pockets.

      Its called owning a business. Every business owner ever makes their money from the product of their employees labor. This is just how employment works. This concept is so basic that I am wondering if there is some sort of deeper irony to your post that I am not grasping. Gates has simply managed to make his business work on a vastly larger scale than almost anyone else. In the process, his organization employees thousands of employees. Do you really think the world would be a better place without Microsoft?

      If you disagree, you are wrong. .

      Logic and debate isn't really your strong suit is it?

      The truth in the paragraph above is undeniable by clear-minded, rational people. However, fear of socialism fueled the Cold War, was the justification of the US war in Viet Nam, the US funding and training of death squad in Nicaragua, and is the rational for the current Cuba embargo. Oh, and fear of socialism is the primary undercurrent to keep healthcare in America as a luxury only the wealthy can afford.

      Um...What? You should loosen up your tinfoil hat and let some blood up there.

      America is a fucked up mess.

      Leave. Nobody's stopping you. I'm sure China or N. Korea could use some more moronic proletariat labor. Keep fighting the good fight Komrade!

      Oh, and fear of socialism is the primary undercurrent to keep healthcare in America as a luxury only the wealthy can afford.

      Nope. The problem is people spewing idiotic vitriol that only serves to enrage and polarize people. Stop appealing to ghosts of McCarthy's past and slow down enough to realize that the US is a big place. People have different needs and desires, and we all expect our government to represent our bests interests.

      healthcare in America as a luxury only the wealthy can afford.

      (psst! I think you forgot about all of our social welfare programs) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicaid

      Capitalism is a fallacy.

      Closing your eyes and plugging your ears to the truth doesn't make it go away. Capitalism may be inefficient and has flaws, but its real. Real life is not like Capricorn 1.

    2. Re:Did he earn it? by Funk_dat69 · · Score: 2, Informative

      America is a fucked up mess. Capitalism is a fallacy.

      Yeah because the communism of N. Korean and USSR are beacons of progress.
      Maybe your angst is misdirected.

      People can use their skills (whatever they may be) to make money and that should be their right. Even if it means they make more money than you can with your skills. Tough cookies. Life is not fair.

      The *real* problem here is with Carlos and how he made his money. His business has a monopoly on the Mexican (and many other latin american countries) Telecom industry. That is bad because it hinders others from making money in the same industry. Gates and his dirty company have a near monopoly in their market segment, but that's not quite the same, and they've already had to answer monopoly inquires to the US govt.

      Capitalism in not a fallacy. Mexican trust regulation is just broken/non-existent/corrupt.

      --
      FUNK!
    3. Re:Did he earn it? by Un+pobre+guey · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You are actually claiming that someone can "earn" $50 billion? That is utterly preposterous. These people gamed the system. People like them destroyed the world economy. Open your eyes and stop looking at the childish myths and legends that have been drilled into you since birth.

      Nobody "earns" tens of billions of dollars.

    4. Re:Did he earn it? by DerekLyons · · Score: 2, Interesting

      If you disagree, you are wrong. The truth in the paragraph above is undeniable by clear-minded, rational people.

      You just gotta love internet debate - no facts need apply when you can just declare your opponents wrong a priori.

    5. Re:Did he earn it? by Monsuco · · Score: 2, Informative

      No man does 53 billion dollar of work. He games the system so the incremental profits of the workers at the bottom of the pyramid trickle up into his pockets.

      You do realize that the the labor theory of value is very widely discredited. Investing is not some giant conspiracy against workers. Investment enables the economy to allocate resources in ways that allow for workers to ... well work. A farmer does much better if a speculator can buy their crops at a fixed rate than selling them on the open market. He no longer must bare the entire risk of markets when he farms. Onions cannot be speculated on, and as a result onion farmers are frequently put out of business by wild fluxuations in the market. A person who wants to expand their business may sell bonds or issue stock. These sources of money may not have actual work behind them, but they let the business expand so that actual work can be done.

      Oh, and fear of socialism is the primary undercurrent to keep healthcare in America as a luxury only the wealthy can afford.

      By law nobody is ever turned down for healthcare in any sort of emergency. 85% of Americans have health insurance but all have access to health care. The fact that the overwhelming majority have insurance shows clearly that it is not exclusive to the rich. A large majority of Americans say they are happy with the quality of care they receive. Of the 15% who are uninsured, about half could afford it but choose to risk it (which is what all forms of insurance are, paying to control a financial risk), and of the remaining uninsured, most are already eligible for programs such as Medicaid and cannot be turned down by hospitals even if they don't pay. America's healthcare system also hardly demonstrates the evils of capitalism, as it isn't a market based system at all. It is the single most regulated industry in the country and the law structures it so that most people are covered through third parties (namely their employer) and are basically required to receive coverage for things they don't need (regulations vary wildly from state to state with no shopping across state lines), and there is the constant overhead created by paperwork and litigation.

      America is a fucked up mess. Capitalism is a fallacy.

      America is still the largest economy of any country in the world and we are astoundingly successful. For most of human history, the norm has been tyranny, war, brutality, disease, and poverty, but America has been a pleasant exception. It is largely because we were founded on the idea that individuals should be allowed the freedom to pursue their own interest that we have seen such prosperity.

    6. Re:Did he earn it? by Eil · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Clam down there, Marx. This game you refer to is called "life," and no, it isn't fair. It won't ever be. Better to accept that fact now and press on than to sit around crying about it.

      No matter how much of a "fucked up mess" you think America is, the fact remains that the standard of living for the poorest of our poor is still vastly better than almost anywhere on the planet. Even if you have nothing but the clothes on your back, you can at least walk into a homeless shelter and get free food and a place to sleep.

      There's no law of nature which says you deserve anything, but I find it encouraging that there are places in this world where you are allowed to make progress and better your social and financial standing whether it be by hard work, smart investing, or a combination of both. You want to see real suffering? Go to countries where trade and business is restricted, governments are practically set up to support corruption, and large groups of people are routinely persecuted and murdered en masse because of their background and/or religion.

      It took the western world centuries to figure out that they stood more to gain by treating their neighbors as customers rather than enemies to be killed or controlled. World peace, if it can be achieved, will not be brought about by good will and wishful thinking, but by money.

  14. charity by roman_mir · · Score: 3, Informative

    Gates spent 30-40 billions on charity, if he didn't, still would've been #1.

  15. They never worked, ever. by SmallFurryCreature · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Reagan is the primary person to blame for the current economy. Basically he sold the world a pyramid scheme. Trickle down economy is EXACTLY what a pyramid scheme is. The idea that anyone who joins the scheme just pours some money into the top of the pyramid and then reaps his rewards as it trickles down to him. And it works, for the first few layers until to many people are needed to join to keep the system flowing and it all collapses.

    And just like pyramid schemes continue to be popular, reaganomics continue to be popular, by the same kind of people. The scammers and the ignorant.

    A pyramid scheme MUST fail, because the longer it continues, the larger it becomes. It can only work in fictional universes were infinite growth is possible (and for a long time, that is exactly what Reagan fans claimed). For a manufacturing nation as you claim it would in, this would mean that their must be an infinite number of resource to use in manufacturing and an infinite market to take the products. Or to put it in simpler terms, it would mean for Microsoft, that it could half the release cylce of their flagship product Windows each time, and still find a growing market for it. So by now you would be getting a new windows every day, pay 300 bucks for it, and have 6 billion people buying it.

    Silly? That is what reaganomics boil down to. Infinite sustained growth.

    Like all pyramids scams, we want to believe that it could work, but it doesn't. And it shows the fatal flaw in democracy. People that fall for scams, get to vote.

    --

    MMO Quests are like orgasms:

    You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.

  16. America is socialist by SmallFurryCreature · · Score: 5, Insightful

    America does tax the the rich to support its poor, therefor it is a socialist state. Trust me, you don't want to see real capitalism. Places like Hong-Kong used to be it and it ain't pretty. Think American ghetto's are though, imagine people with actual paying jobs living in "housing" that is a shell, with inside a mesh of cages that house entire families. Yes, not dissimilar to how chickens are housed in battery farms.

    In a true capitalistic country, there is no restriction on what can be for sale. You would have legal organ harvesting, since money buys anything.

    America right now might be bad, but it could be a lot worse.

    And you can't really blame the Bill Gates of the world for it either. He got 1 vote. It is the millions of people who are just a paycheck away from complete financial ruin who vote against a system that could give them a proper safety net because they think that next paycheck will have a billion dollar amount on it, and then they would have to pay 50% taxes on it and that 500 million would mean utter ruination of their dream to one day make it rich.

    It ain't the rich who worry about taxes, if Bill Gates suddenly had to pay 80% in taxes, what would he loose? Nothing. It is the idiots who live on minimum wage who somehow capping capital gains tax is a good thing for them.

    It is the American dream vs gritty reality and reality doesn't stand a chance.

    Sweden is the almost complete opposite, there the working and middle class (the majority voter) believe that the best system for themselves is a system where you can take a year off from work, or not work at all and be supported by the state. An alien thought to most Americans, but ultimately the Swedish system can only exist because the majority votes for it.

    And the majority of American seem to want the current system.

    --

    MMO Quests are like orgasms:

    You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.

  17. Outsourcing by genner · · Score: 2, Funny

    Wow we're even outsourcing our rich people now.
    No wonder our economy sucks.

  18. He's no better than the drug lords by Funk_dat69 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The richest guy in the world being from one of the most corrupt countries? Big surprise. When you own much of the industry in an entire country, you know some nasty deals have gone on somewhere.

    I'm pro-capitalist, but if a single business/person owns controls that much, it ceases to be capitalism. There is no competition, no new investment, no invention. Nothing but collecting payment since there is no other option. The sad thing is the Mexican government probably couldn't break up Carlos' monopolies at this point even if they wanted to.

    Congrats Carlos. You won. Everyone else in Mexico loses.

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    FUNK!