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MetaLab Accuses Mozilla of Ripping Off UI Elements In Mockups

Posted by timothy on from the classic-miscommunication dept.

CWmike writes "Canadian interface design firm MetaLab has accused Mozilla of stealing user interface elements for a development tool in the browser maker's Jetpack project, which aims to simplify add-on making. MetaLab leveled the charges on Tuesday when the 11-person firm's founder, Andrew Wilkinson, blogged about the similarities between his company's designs and those posted by Mozilla for FlightDeck, a Jetpack editor. 'What they did was pretty ridiculous,' Wilkinson said on Thursday. 'There's a difference between inspiration versus ripping something off,' he said. 'The measurements of the graphic elements [Mozilla took from us] were the exact same, the very same pixels. When someone takes your images from the server hosting them, that's crossing the line.' Mozilla apologized to MetaLab on Wednesday, saying in a blog post, 'While the design direction being implemented does not utilize these design elements, we inadvertently included the early mockups in our blog post and video announcing the next phase of development for the Jetpack SDK ... We sincerely apologize to MetaLab for incorporating design elements from their web site in our early mockups and for posting them publicly without proper attribution.'" Alexander Limi of the Firefox User Experience Team points out that MetaLab has accepted the apology, too — worth bearing in mind.

159 comments

  1. Open source, steal? by nacturation · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Without stealing of ideas, we wouldn't have Open Office which implemented feature-for-feature what Microsoft Office has. Without stealing, we wouldn't have KDE and Gnome with implemented many features from Windows and OS X. How could open source survive without it? :)

    --
    Want to improve your Karma? Instead of "Post Anonymously", try the "Post Humously" option.
    1. Re:Open source, steal? by The+Turd+Burglar · · Score: 5, Insightful

      How could open source survive without it? :)

      Coming up with your own ideas instead of cloning everyone else's?

    2. Re:Open source, steal? by commodore64_love · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Without stealing, we wouldn't have many works of Shakespeare or Bach, both of whom copied liberally from their Italian counterparts. (Of course that was before copyright existed, hence plagiarism of ideas was not only legal, but accepted.)

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    3. Re:Open source, steal? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      Without stealing, we wouldn't have KDE and Gnome with implemented many features from Windows and OS X.

      Exactly. The worst part was how the KDE team went FORWARD in time, completely ripped off Windows 7 and then went BACK in time and implemented KDE4 before Windows 7 was even in beta! The nerve!

      (Anonymous for obvious reasons)

    4. Re:Open source, steal? by psithurism · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Without stealing of ideas, we wouldn't have Open Office which implemented feature-for-feature what Microsoft Office has. Without stealing, we wouldn't have KDE and Gnome with implemented many features from Windows and OS X. How could open source survive without it? :)

      Microsoft Word is the standard in word processing, it was reasonable to get a half functional free equivalent for users who couldn't run MSWord, but mozilla is huge and quite capabable of creating their own designs, while the firm they stole from is much smaller and not a standard in any way.

    5. Re:Open source, steal? by Stephenmg · · Score: 1

      Your examples aren't the same as what happened here. It's not that MetaLab's product influenced the design elements in Mozzila's Jetpack, It's the fact that the gui elements are exactly the same. None of your examples are exactly the same and some of them have even gone back the other direction with open source software inspiring closed source software. Too be fair to Mozzila though, it was just a mock-up which is aimed at getting the point across.

    6. Re:Open source, steal? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There's a difference between creating similar tools to do the same job and copying a user interface pixel for pixel.

    7. Re:Open source, steal? by The+End+Of+Days · · Score: 5, Funny

      (Anonymous for obvious reasons)

      Yeah, defending KDE on Slashdot is very risky.

    8. Re:Open source, steal? by Jazzbunny · · Score: 1

      And where did they get their time machine from? Plot thickens.

    9. Re:Open source, steal? by Cryacin · · Score: 1

      Blame it on Canada!

      --
      Science advances one funeral at a time- Max Planck
    10. Re:Open source, steal? by Cryacin · · Score: 2, Funny

      There's been an open source Flux Capacitor for years!

      --
      Science advances one funeral at a time- Max Planck
    11. Re:Open source, steal? by digitalchinky · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Feature for Feature you say? Staroffice started life as "StarWriter" way back when 8 bit processors were cutting edge. I'd say there was and still is quite a lot of 'feature' copying happening on all sides. Probably a lot of what you think of as copying is just common sense GUI design, some of it accidental, but either way, someone has to write the code, it's not like Microsoft released the source.

    12. Re:Open source, steal? by gzipped_tar · · Score: 4, Funny

      They've been keeping it in an amusement part since the UN's victory over the Nazis led by Charlie Chaplin. BTW, Godwined.

      --
      Colorless green Cthulhu waits dreaming furiously.
    13. Re:Open source, steal? by keeboo · · Score: 2, Informative

      Without stealing of ideas, we wouldn't have Open Office which implemented feature-for-feature what Microsoft Office has. Without stealing, we wouldn't have KDE and Gnome with implemented many features from Windows and OS X. How could open source survive without it? :)

      Feeling trolly today?

      Both Apple and Microsoft copied from Xerox, Lotus etc.
      The difference is that, when a FOSS copies from something else, it does not have the chutzpah to claim originality.

    14. Re:Open source, steal? by Fluffeh · · Score: 3, Insightful

      How could open source survive without it? :)

      Coming up with your own ideas instead of cloning everyone else's?

      That depends on what your open source project is. If you want to replace a current application with an open source one, coming up with your own ideas of how to implement it won't be the best option. If I wanted my company to replace their versions of Microsoft Word with an open source word processor, I would want the application to reliably and hopefully in a simple way do all that Microsoft Word currently does. There is no point in making a word processor if it's so different and can do all these other things if it can't do the things I need it to do.

      Coming up with ideas has nothing to do with open/prop source.

      When making something new, to look into a market/niche that isn't being catered for currently, come up with new ideas, do things that no-one has done already. Be creative. When trying to take a market from someone else or to replace a product, copy the functionality features - but even at that point, it would be better to look at how those functions and features might be improved in the process. Giving someone a product that does exactly the same thing won't give them any incentive at all to change. Giving them a product that does the same things, but better/simpler/easier/quicker is when you will have a product worth swapping to.

      --
      Moved to http://soylentnews.org/. You are invited to join us too!
    15. Re:Open source, steal? by mysidia · · Score: 1

      Without stealing of ideas, MacOS and Windows would not exist. The concept of mouse, windows, and graphical menus belong to PARC/Xerox.

      Who never got their opportunity to release a product using the technology, because Apple stole it right out from under them, before it was even published, making Apple 1st to market on technology they stole.

      Far more damaging than ripping on a work, when the designer's product is already out, known to the market, and available for purchase.

    16. Re:Open source, steal? by PitaBred · · Score: 4, Insightful

      That's impossible. You can't live in a vacuum, and EVERYTHING is derivative to one degree or another.

      --
      My blog. Good stuff (when I remember to update it). Read it.
    17. Re:Open source, steal? by PitaBred · · Score: 2, Funny

      That's because we sent the OSS marketers along with the telephone sanitizers on the B-ark.

      --
      My blog. Good stuff (when I remember to update it). Read it.
    18. Re:Open source, steal? by Windwraith · · Score: 5, Interesting

      You just need to search Slashdot, when the first screenshots of Windows 7 came out, many compared it to KDE4. Now everyone compares Seven to KDE4...which is unfair, as history shows otherwise. I doubt Aaron Seigo and related folks had inside views of Seven's development.
      But as the parent implies, it seems defending KDE4 is a risky position here, I wonder why. Qt is free now, and KDE is as much of a windows clone as most window managers out there, with a taskbar and titlebars. Gnome is a windows clone too.

    19. Re:Open source, steal? by The+Turd+Burglar · · Score: 3, Insightful

      There's a difference between being derivative and being an attempt at a 1:1 copy.

    20. Re:Open source, steal? by Smoke2Joints · · Score: 2, Funny

      Thats impossible, even for a computer.

    21. Re:Open source, steal? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I like to think of it as Windows: KDawson Edition.

    22. Re:Open source, steal? by JustOK · · Score: 1

      That's pretty original, eh?

      --
      rewriting history since 2109
    23. Re:Open source, steal? by indiechild · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The same old tired excuse -- did you even look at the article and linked blog entry? This isn't about stealing of ideas, this is stealing work pixel-for-pixel. That's never OK, and has nothing to do with open source or "artistic inspiration".

    24. Re:Open source, steal? by Philip_the_physicist · · Score: 1

      So, It turns out that both dev teams went forwards in time and stole features from the other.

      Now, what I'd like to know is why they can't get the patches while they're at it, so they have bug-free products.

    25. Re:Open source, steal? by h4rr4r · · Score: 0, Redundant

      Windows and MacOs stole those ideas from Xerox. OSX came later.

    26. Re:Open source, steal? by ae1294 · · Score: 2, Funny

      Coming up with your own ideas instead of cloning everyone else's?

      Xerox called and offered you a job to speak out against Microsoft and Apple for stealing all their really good ideas. I told them you thought that stealing their money for something you do for free would be stealing... They said they fully understood and also welcomed me to something called the 'Tautology club'.... I'm not sure if I'm sure about what that word really means...

    27. Re:Open source, steal? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And widows is an alto clone :P

    28. Re:Open source, steal? by paeanblack · · Score: 4, Funny

      There's a difference between being derivative and being an attempt at a 1:1 copy.

      I disagree.

      Cheers,
      --e^x

    29. Re:Open source, steal? by ae1294 · · Score: 1

      Yeah, defending KDE on Slashdot is very risky.

      Well you do have to watch out for gromes... I hear they have sharp pointy teeth and a horrible child-like voice that is very unnerving and rather unexpected giving their demonic nature...

    30. Re:Open source, steal? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I thought Apple licensed that stuff from Xerox. And when Microsoft tried to sue Apple, Xerox stepped in and slapped Microsoft.

    31. Re:Open source, steal? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      If we lump patents with copyrights, that was also the time when people who invented great stuff tended to die in poverty after the entire western world "stole their imaginary property" (a.k.a. "was inspired by their ideas"):
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Crompton

    32. Re:Open source, steal? by BrokenHalo · · Score: 1

      Without stealing, we wouldn't have many works of Shakespeare or Bach, both of whom copied liberally from their Italian counterparts.

      Name one instance where Bach plagiarised. He did use some Italian forms in his music, but that is not plagiarism.

    33. Re:Open source, steal? by BrokenHalo · · Score: 1

      I haven't used Windows 7 yet, but I hope it's a bit more intuitive than KDE4 was. Until I found out how to make the desktop usable as a place to drop "stuff" in KDE, I found it a pretty frustrating experience.

    34. Re:Open source, steal? by FooAtWFU · · Score: 1
      There's a difference between being derivative and being an attempt at a 1:1 copy.

      I disagree.

      Cheers,
      --fooatwfu

      --
      The World Wide Web is dying. Soon, we shall have only the Internet.
    35. Re:Open source, steal? by sjames · · Score: 1

      Without stealing, we'd each have to independently invent the wheel and discover fire.

    36. Re:Open source, steal? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Does anyone read the article? These guys stole the actual images off of MetaLab, not a fucking idea or a "gist" of their design. What makes it worse is that this is after Mozilla decided that these guys were too expensive and denied their bid.

    37. Re:Open source, steal? by contrapunctus · · Score: 1

      Bach's keyboard (organ and harpsichord) concertos of Vivaldi's violin concertos (for four violins is a an example, can't remember the numbers)

    38. Re:Open source, steal? by nacturation · · Score: 1

      Feeling trolly today?

      A little. Hopefully the smiley tempered it.

      --
      Want to improve your Karma? Instead of "Post Anonymously", try the "Post Humously" option.
    39. Re:Open source, steal? by nacturation · · Score: 1

      The same old tired excuse -- did you even look at the article and linked blog entry?

      Um... this is Slashdot, right?

      --
      Want to improve your Karma? Instead of "Post Anonymously", try the "Post Humously" option.
    40. Re:Open source, steal? by iamhassi · · Score: 1

      "Feeling trolly today?"

      Did you read what they're accused of stealing? They're accused of stealing website design.

      Here's a photo demonstrating exactly what they're accused of stealing

      While I'd admit they look very similar (FlightDeck looks better IMHO) this is the internet, every well designed site ends up on other sites. How many websites look like Amazon? Look at all the identical looking blogs created with wordpress. Honestly MetaLab I think you're mad they took your design and improved upon it.

      --
      my karma will be here long after I'm gone
    41. Re:Open source, steal? by jim_v2000 · · Score: 1

      Fuck that. If something is a good idea, everyone should use it. If you don't like it, patent it or copyright it. Oh, you can't? Tough.

      --
      Don't take life so seriously. No one makes it out alive.
    42. Re:Open source, steal? by BrokenHalo · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Those are widely recognised to be taken from transcriptions that he made, and never published under his own name. This was common practice in the Baroque period as a means of studying a composer's work.

      However, your remark about composers borrowing from each other is correct. Vivaldi borrowed extensively from Ruggieri and Corelli.

    43. Re:Open source, steal? by Blakey+Rat · · Score: 1

      The difference is that, when a FOSS copies from something else, it does not have the chutzpah to claim originality.

      I must have been delusional when I thought I read all those posts on Slashdot Games saying that Frozen Bubble and Battle for Wesnoth were original...

      --
      Comment of the year
    44. Re:Open source, steal? by jim_v2000 · · Score: 1

      > This isn't about stealing of ideas, this is stealing work pixel-for-pixel. That's never OK.

      I have two questions. How does one "steal" pixels and why is it not ok? If elements of their UI look good, I say use them. There is NO WAY that it harms the original application, and I'm pretty sure that you can't copyright a piece of a UI.

      --
      Don't take life so seriously. No one makes it out alive.
    45. Re:Open source, steal? by Sulphur · · Score: 1

      invent the wheel and discover fire

      And the Zippo and the Bic

    46. Re:Open source, steal? by keeboo · · Score: 1

      The difference is that, when a FOSS copies from something else, it does not have the chutzpah to claim originality.

      I must have been delusional when I thought I read all those posts on Slashdot Games saying that Frozen Bubble and Battle for Wesnoth were original...

      Dunno, it's possible someone wrote that. Still, I cannot find any originality claim in either projects' websites.

      Personally, I could never understand the fanboyism behind Frozen Bubble. It looks like a (polished) 1980s game.

    47. Re:Open source, steal? by Ihmhi · · Score: 1

      In Windows: KDawson Edition, there's no spellchecker and Internet Explorer 5's home page is automatically and irrevocably set to Fark.

      --
      Random Thoughts From A Diseased Mind (Not For Dummies)
    48. Re:Open source, steal? by hairyfeet · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Oh please! Can we let this old 'for the starving (insert authors/inventors/artists) bullshit just DIAF already? Sure that was true back when copyrights were first invented, you know when they were actually SANE, but that time has been gone for decades now. All copyrights and patents do know is crush the little guy who can't compete with supermegacorp who has a patent warchest or pile of copyrights the size of the great pyramids.

      You want proof? One sentence-Steamboat Willie is STILL under copyright. Than man has been dead since before cars had seatbelts, yet one of his first works, made when planes were made of cloth and antibiotics were but a dream, is STILL under copyrights! This gross abuse of power is why innovation in this country (with the exception of laws and ponzi schemes) is pretty much dead, as the only way to survive the patent trolls and other leeches is to sell out to some multinational who will give you pennies while they rake in the truckloads of cash.

      So please, just put down the Ayn Rand and smell the fail, okay? All this "IP" crap has done is give supermegacorps like Disney enough cash to buy out every politician on the planet, while making sure the little guy doesn't have a chance in hell. it is like all this stupidity of record companies suing each other because one of their bands made a song that sounds like something already in their catalog. Well duh! There are only 12 notes in the western scale, and thanks to copyrights being "forever minus a single day" now the odds of find 4 or 5 chords that don't grate on your ears that someone else hadn't ever played before is pretty much zilch. Or should we stop all artists from recording now because it may infringe on some supermegacorp's back catalog?

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    49. Re:Open source, steal? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I disagrrrr

      --Tiggerrr

    50. Re:Open source, steal? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Now, what I'd like to know is why they can't get the patches while they're at it, so they have bug-free products

      It's because they created a space-time Paradox/Access/OO.o Base.

    51. Re:Open source, steal? by Robert+Zenz · · Score: 1

      How could open source survive without it? :)

      Ahm...you didn't look around in the IT industry lately, did you? It's common practice to copy ideas of others. I mean, without Seamonkey/Firefox there would be no IE7 and 8. MacOS-Users wonder why so many things look so damn similar in Windows 7, and Linux Users just smile politely because they know those graphic-effects since years from Compiz and KDE.

      And one last thing, you _can't steal ideas_. I mean, you can, you listen to my idea and then rip my skull open...otherwise it would be _cloning_ or _copying_.

    52. Re:Open source, steal? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There's a difference between being derivative and being an attempt at a 1:1 copy.

      I disagree.

      Cheers,
      --e^x

      I think you'll find that there is one.

      --d/dy

    53. Re:Open source, steal? by DMiax · · Score: 1

      Also worth noting that the mokups and plans for the plasma dashboard predate the OSX one.

    54. Re:Open source, steal? by ravenshrike · · Score: 1

      *blinks* Um, Ayn Rand wasn't a particular fan of either copyright or patents.

    55. Re:Open source, steal? by nacturation · · Score: 2, Funny

      Thats impossible, even for a computer.

      It's not impossible. I used to bullseye womp rats in my T-16 back home, they're not much bigger than two meters.

      --
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    56. Re:Open source, steal? by realityimpaired · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Why reinvent the wheel? If there's a particular design/UI element that's in use, has been updated and refined for decades, and is generally accepted as the easiest or most efficient, or even just the most familiar way to do things, why reinvent it? If you eschew it completely, you're likely to alienate a significant portion of your user base.

    57. Re:Open source, steal? by hairyfeet · · Score: 1

      I know that, but you would be surprised how many "Corporation yay!" types read her book and get it completely wrong. I mean I have heard Rush trying to claim her as a republican role model, and Rush is about the most megacorp patent loving shill out there!

      it is no different than how so many "corporation yay!" types claim to be "God fearing Christians" but when you actually sit down and let them tell you what they believe they actually worship Supply Side Jesus instead of the one from the bible. It is how come here in the south we have so many preachers spouting "God wants you to be rich!" while they drive their Lexus from the church to the McMansion and wouldn't piss on a poor person if they were on fire.

      So while I have read her books (and personally think her idea of Utopia would quickly turn to shit) you'd be surprised how many of her followers simply think all Rand was for was "their" idea of a "free market" which all boils down to corporation yay! And since the one I was responding to was spouting off the classic "Think of the starving (insert authors, artists, inventors) I figured he was one of the "Free markets YES!" Rand spewing corporation yay types. But go over to the "conservative intellectual" sites sometime and you'll see tons of the corporation yay! types spewing off little Rand quotes that they can twist into pro supermegacorp. Point out there that Rand was against patents and watch their heads asplode!

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    58. Re:Open source, steal? by kevinNCSU · · Score: 1

      Application 1 pays a staff of graphic designers and UI designers to create images and a well thought out design. That cost must be included in the price of the product in order to make profit. Application two grabs finished images straight out off of the other companies website and slaps them into their product with no effort or cost. Application 2 is now benefiting off the work of Application 1's staff. Application 1 doesn't look any better for the extra money spent on it, and has a higher cost.

      Besides the cost ramifications, you're talking about taking an artist's work without permission and using it as your own without attribution. That's indefensible. It's an eleven man company, we're not talking about sticking it to record labels, or ridiculous copyright laws. We're talking about taking work directly from an artist and not giving them credit for it

    59. Re:Open source, steal? by jedidiah · · Score: 1

      How is that working for Microsoft, Apple and all of the Unix vendors exactly?

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    60. Re:Open source, steal? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Without the Remington Typewriter, we wouldn't have the IBM Selectric typewriter, Word Star, Word Perfect, Microsoft Word...

      Or if you're a numbers kinda person, without the Abacus we wouldn't have Visicalc, Lotus 1-2-3 or Microsoft Excel.

      I'd also challenge that Open Office is a feature-for-feature rip-off of Microsoft Office. By far, Microsoft Office leads in features that 99% of the people do not use!

    61. Re:Open source, steal? by jedidiah · · Score: 1

      If certain interfaces didn't mock/copy/clone others, they would be constantly criticized by troll for being different.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    62. Re:Open source, steal? by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      You really should be careful with that paintbrush.
      I'm a conservative.
      And a Republican.

      I HATE corporations - I consider them to be the second worst evil in this nation (gov't being first). Concentration of power in a few, and the laws to protect them, is a dangerous doctrine.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    63. Re:Open source, steal? by Ash+Vince · · Score: 2, Interesting

      There's a difference between being derivative and being an attempt at a 1:1 copy.

      The problem with this is the metalab seem to be implying Mozilla ripped them off, they actually have no idea who it was (based on RTFA, not doing any additional research).

      It seems that Metalab submitted a design for this project, but it is not the design that mozilla used. Mozilla went with a different design that was ripped off from Metalabs homepage. That might just mean someone else saw the same invite to tender that Metalab did and searched various design company websites until they found something half decent they could steal. This sort of stuff goes on all the time from half arsed designers who cannot be bothered to raise there game.

      Mozilla still should have caught it earlier though, especially as they had received a tender from the same company.

      --
      I dont read /. to RTFA, I read /. to offend people in ignorance.
    64. Re:Open source, steal? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm no libertarian or megacorp, nor do I need this crazy copyright extension Disney fought so hard to pass, but unfortunately as an artist I need this protection and I know my peers have used the law to their benefit to recover statutory damages for stolen/ abuse of license in their photographs. We don't parade in expensive homes or cars, but as broken as the law is, we use it to protect ourselves. And as a foreigner, I'm more comfortable creating something here than abroad (say, China). I have no illusions that someone somewhere might "borrow" my work (and I do speculate a special clause for education or personal use for smaller or no fee), but I don't use copyright laws as a honeypot trap; I use it to prevent others from creating shirts, coffee mugs, or billboards to advertise their product without the fair compensation to me. The billboard case actually happened to me. After all, I wish I could just "borrow" the $50,000 of equipment I have.

    65. Re:Open source, steal? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, it'
      s not about stealing anything - it's about illegally copying about it and lying about it. Play the semantic game, expect to get burned by the 1-up.

    66. Re:Open source, steal? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Here is where you are dead wrong though: "slaps them into their product with no effort or cost" -

      You realize these mocks were never used for anything other than pictures of functionality, not design right??? And they were never put into any product or site right ???

      As some previous folks have pointed out, which apparently you missed, read the title and check your facts: "MetaLab Accuses Mozilla of Ripping Off UI Elements In Mockups"

      I think if we started suing every person who ever created a mock like this that obviously didn't do it to steal someone's design you'd be looking at 25% of the tech industry.

      Who we should really go after is any keyboard manufacturer who has a print-screen button on their products, or better yet, just force the keyboard manufacturers to include a MetaBigBrother tracking software that notifies site owners whenever you print-screen their site. Yeah the message could be something like this: "Someone has just print screened your site. Now, without considering what the are actually using it for, this system advises that you don't check the facts and immediately move to smear them. Don't mind if they are just playing around with it, or never put it in a single app."

      Actually, on second thought, don't at all do that, because it is meant to show how completely stupid what you are saying is.

    67. Re:Open source, steal? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wesnoth openly states that it was made in the style of a Genesis game called Master of Monsters.

    68. Re:Open source, steal? by camperdave · · Score: 1

      Wait a minute. Are they saying that a computer can't maintain a target lock on a stationary two meter diameter target?

      --
      When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
    69. Re:Open source, steal? by hairyfeet · · Score: 1

      Do you believe and follow Glenn Beck? And old pill popping Rush? if the answer is no you are most like an old school Barry Goldwater conservative and I hate to be the one to break the news to you but your kind was kicked out of the party a couple of decades ago for the "corporation yay!", the "bash them with this bible cause we need a reason to hate", and the "more police state powers!" types.

      So I'm sorry, but you've been kicked to the curb just as old fashioned liberals and progressives have been kicked out of the dems by "big media yay!", the "discrimination is okay as long as it is to evil white males", and the "more government control and power is always better!" types.

      So sorry if you took offense, but you don't really belong to that party anymore, just as I don't belong to the dems. BOTH sides have been taken over by power loving, big interest kissing, greedy corporate dick sucking pigs. Unless you got a couple of million to donate to their "re-election campaign" they wouldn't piss on either of us if we were on fire. that is why voting is pretty much pointless now, see the current president for a good example.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    70. Re:Open source, steal? by Guspaz · · Score: 1

      Why would the womp rats be stationary? You're just beating a dead womp rat.

    71. Re:Open source, steal? by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      What's similar about KDE4 and 7? All the new features in the latter, compared to Vista, don't have any direct analogs in KDE (so far as I know).

      KDE vs Vista would be a more interesting comparison... but I still strongly suspect that the whole "ooh shiny" angle was picked from OS X rather than KDE. But if you can show otherwise, by demonstrating a feature unique to KDE that was copied, by all means, go ahead!

    72. Re:Open source, steal? by camperdave · · Score: 1

      Um... The target that was too hard for the computer to hit was the thermal exhaust port, not a womp rat.

      --
      When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
    73. Re:Open source, steal? by mahsah · · Score: 1

      Well, to be fair to the private sector, modern copyright *is* purely a government construct.

    74. Re:Open source, steal? by GravityStar · · Score: 1

      It's unprofessional on the part of Mozilla. Most people at Mozilla who knew about Jetpack and who knew about the MetaLab estimate would have known MetaLab was being ripped off.

      It points to multiple people not taking responsibility for recognizing and dealing with such an issue. The problem is probably institutional. Mozilla needs to get their people to a ethics training course.

    75. Re:Open source, steal? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You want proof? One sentence-Steamboat Willie is STILL under copyright. Than man has been dead since before cars had seatbelts, yet one of his first works, made when planes were made of cloth and antibiotics were but a dream, is STILL under copyrights! This gross abuse of power is why innovation in this country ... is pretty much dead.

      "Because I can't make money off Steamboat Willie, innovation is dead." That's a stupid argument. How about the converse? "Because I can't make money off Steamboat Willie, I need to innovate to make something different." See how that works? It's not like Steamboat Willie was the last animated character ever created.

    76. Re:Open source, steal? by cyberthanasis12 · · Score: 1

      Without stealing of ideas

      Stealing? Ideas? Right. Every time you use the Pythagorean theorem, you steal the idea of Pythagoras.

      Seriously though, ideas are cheap, implementations are difficult.

    77. Re:Open source, steal? by rdnetto · · Score: 1

      There's been an open source Flux Capacitor for years!

      Except it only runs under Gentoo, and they haven't finished compiling it yet.

      --
      Most human behaviour can be explained in terms of identity.
    78. Re:Open source, steal? by mahadiga · · Score: 1

      "If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." -- Isaac Newton

      --
      I'd like to buy homeland for our 10 million people. http://twitter.com/mahadiga
  2. Snore by some_guy_88 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Company does something wrong.

    Company apologizes.

    Accuser accepts apology.

    Slow news day?

    1. Re:Snore by gzipped_tar · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Considering this is slashdot (and timothy), a story that is not openly aiming at generating hate, flame & modtroll fest is indeed, well, quite a story.

      --
      Colorless green Cthulhu waits dreaming furiously.
    2. Re:Snore by ae1294 · · Score: 2, Funny

      Slow news day?

      The days are getting so slow around here that they have had to resort to traveling into the distant past to find stories to post.

      But yeah everyone keeps saying 1:1 copy - the horror! I bet most of these same people are guilty of doing this with their own program GUI's or websites. Honestly we all know that the 'make it shiny' peoples aren't always the 'make it stable' peoples so this really just isn't a big deal. It's a damn mock up plus the underlining code is totally different. It's not like when Microsoft xor Apple cuts and pastes GNU code into their apps or heck release entire programs they stole from GNU code.

      Wait... this is /. so never-mind most of you are working for M$ or Apple while stealing GNU code and masturbating to loli porn about a despotic corporate future state where you can exact your revenge on the children of those who bullied you at the bus stop as a child. You sick twisted aspe fucks totally disgust me..

      Or I guess you could just be Opera uses as the effect would be equivalent.

      Regardless we will soon find out how true this statement is as I expect a -1 troll or flamebait mod just as soon as you finish cleaning yourselves up. twats...

    3. Re:Snore by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Safety means more Jew geldings for retirement and possibly the buying-out of an Israeli lobbyist. Timothy could retire comfortably and buy a term of congress' worth of Joe Lieberman's face-time. No small feat there.

    4. Re:Snore by Ihmhi · · Score: 1

      I see lots of "Oh great, another dumbass post from $EDITOR".

      Are there any editors than anyone here likes or thinks is remotely competent whatsoever?

      --
      Random Thoughts From A Diseased Mind (Not For Dummies)
    5. Re:Snore by nschubach · · Score: 1

      To be fair... Slashdot was, for a while, free of most people who would associate with Apple or Microsoft. It seems to be a more recent trend.

      --
      Every time I start to have faith in humanity, I ruin it by driving to work between 7 and 8 am.
    6. Re:Snore by hey! · · Score: 2, Funny

      Your haiku does no scan. How about

      Company does wrong,
      then later says it's sorry.
      It's a slow news day.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
  3. As the title says, it was only a mockup by R.Mo_Robert · · Score: 4, Informative

    The summary alludes to this, but just in case (since 90% of people who comment probably won't read past the headline):

    Update: I just got off the phone with the team at Mozilla, who apologized and clarified a few things. The design which used our site’s design elements was a development build and according to them the design has been changed in newer builds. That said, it was used in their launch video as well as their blog post announcing the product. They told me that that the team who put together the blog post and video was unaware of the similarities at the time of inclusion. We’ve asked for a public apology, and I’ll be doing a follow-up post tomorrow [and they did].

    --
    R.Mo
    1. Re:As the title says, it was only a mockup by X0563511 · · Score: 4, Informative

      Note that the headline says just that:

      MetaLab Accuses Mozilla of Ripping Off UI Elements in Mockups (emphasis mine)

      --
      For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
    2. Re:As the title says, it was only a mockup by Culture20 · · Score: 4, Funny

      LAUNCELOT: Look, my liege!
      ARTHUR: Camelot!
      GALAHAD: Camelot!
      LAUNCELOT: Camelot!
      PATSY: It's only a model.

    3. Re:As the title says, it was only a mockup by Yvan256 · · Score: 1

      King Arthur: On second thought, let's not go to Camelot. It is a silly place.

  4. This was a mockup people by OnlyJedi · · Score: 5, Insightful

    So, a company decided to take shortcuts in creating a mockup of a project still in early development, and is being blasted because of it? Seriously, this was nowhere near a final release or even a beta release. It was a mockup, designed solely to get across an idea of what the final product interface would look like. Tasking an art team to create all-new icons and artwork is generally counter to the idea of the quick-and-dirty nature of mockups.

    1. Re:This was a mockup people by Rockoon · · Score: 1

      Apologists shrug it off. News at 11.

      --
      "His name was James Damore."
    2. Re:This was a mockup people by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      So, a company decided to take shortcuts in creating a mockup

      No, they showed it to the public. Public demo trumps mockup, and they deserve a bit of flak for this one.

    3. Re:This was a mockup people by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      Well, Mozilla reject their bid proposal, where Metalabs could've earned $XXX for their labor, but went ahead and used their design for their own purposes, regardless if it's just a mockup. It's like if you told potential investors or your great new gadget, and in good faith did not make them sign a NDA (those are so pretentious unless you're *both* very big companies), rejected your idea, but went ahead and placed an RFP, or beta test, or whatever using your idea as a skeleton.

      Even something small as a bid proposal takes time and money to put together: from programmers, to art & design guys, to marketing, and sales.

    4. Re:This was a mockup people by QuantumG · · Score: 1

      meh, copyright can fuck right off.. How would you even show damage in a case like this? Stupidity.

      --
      How we know is more important than what we know.
    5. Re:This was a mockup people by martas · · Score: 1

      the only thing worse than a mistake is over-correcting for it.

      a world without any copyright/patent law is a sad, sad world. kinda like a world where stealing or murder are legal.

      --
      weinersmith
    6. Re:This was a mockup people by Wildclaw · · Score: 1

      the only thing worse than a mistake is over-correcting for it.

      OK.

      a world without any copyright/patent law is a sad, sad world. kinda like a world where stealing or murder are legal.

      Although from this I guess over-correcting analogies is perfectly fine.

    7. Re:This was a mockup people by mrt_2394871 · · Score: 1

      Not quite.

      We don't know what the graphics in Metalabs' bid proposal looked like, so we can't compare the Mozilla mock-up with that.

      The Mozilla mock-up used/cloned/"borrowed heavily" from Metalabs' web site. Still "not right", but not as egregious as many people seem to be inferring.

    8. Re:This was a mockup people by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Mozilla is an open-source company, they do most of their work in the open, unlike closed-source companies it is expected and normal for them to make mock-ups of future plans public.

    9. Re:This was a mockup people by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think you are assuming there WERE any graphics in the proposal. If you read carefully you'll see there were NO graphics even given to Mozilla, the design firm just gave them prices!!! This is a really trumped up charge if you ask me. Someone pasted in some stuff on a page for mock sake, the product looks totally different, not making the stealing connection here...

  5. Good thing. by Ekuryua · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Jetpack is pretty much an attempt at making firefox extensions greasemonkey scripts that hold no actual application power. They were talking of removing normal extension support for that fake sugary stuff. Plus the idea that normal people will be making quick extensions is just ridiculous. Making a normal ff extension is not that hard, it's all quite documented and you can take any simple extension as base template if scared...

    1. Re:Good thing. by FreakCERS · · Score: 5, Informative

      I'm sorry, but most of your assertions are blatantly untrue.

      1) Extensions created with Jetpack (the actual framework, not the prototype based on ideas from Ubiquity) have to a large extent the same powers as an old-style extension. There is a certain number of capabilities provided, but if you need more, you can write your own capabilities, share them, or indeed use others users shared capabilities.

      2) As an official Jetpack Ambassador, and Ubiquity core developer (as previously mentioned, the base of some of the ideas for Jetpack), I can honestly say that I have never heard talks about ditching regular extensions, except from user-comments on sites like Slashdot. Indeed, many of us involved with the project have addressed this issue on several occasions.

      3) The idea was never for "normal people" to make extensions, it was to widen the audience from a very few XUL developers (I believe the number is in the low end of 4-5000), to web-developers in general.

      There are several interesting possibilities with this, amongst them companies using existing web developers in their employment to create work-flow enhancing extensions quickly, and letting website developers create new ways of interacting with their site. Especially in the latter case, the extensive security model in Jetpack compared with old-style extensions, and the ease of install/uninstall is paramount.

      Best regards,
      -- cers / Christian Sonne

    2. Re:Good thing. by Ekuryua · · Score: 1

      All the better then.
      As I am curious, can a jetpack extension run a background timer independent of any window(as long as the application is running)?
      Can a jetpack extension modify chrome elements and behaviours?
      If neither of those are true, I don't see what's the point of jetpack, compared to greasemonkey, pardon my ignorance.

      Is it just supposed to become a sort of official greasemonkey?

    3. Re:Good thing. by FreakCERS · · Score: 1

      As I am curious, can a jetpack extension run a background timer independent of any window(as long as the application is running)?

      Honestly, I don't know, but I imagine so.

      Can a jetpack extension modify chrome elements and behaviours?

      Yes. You can read more on the current version here: https://jetpack.mozillalabs.com/sdk/0.1/docs/ specifically the glossary might be interesting for a quick overview.

      Is it just supposed to become a sort of official greasemonkey?

      It is supposed to be a much more powerful greasemonkey, with a strong security system.

    4. Re:Good thing. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Extensions created with Jetpack (the actual framework, not the prototype based on ideas from Ubiquity) have to a large extent the same powers as an old-style extension.

      using existing web developers in their employment to create work-flow enhancing extensions quickly, and letting website developers create new ways of interacting with their site

      So this has all the downsides of ActiveX (fragmented web, security issues). And it's easier to develop for so we'll have some proper talentless monkeys creating the add-ons. Great!

    5. Re:Good thing. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not true, the security model is better than the traditional XUL way to do extensions for FF and Google Chrome's extensions. You still will be able to do all the same things with it you can in XUL as well.

  6. Changed by Kohenkatz · · Score: 4, Informative

    Here is what it looks like now: http://gallery.ymkatz.net/mozilla%20jetpack.png

    1. Re:Changed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      @ Kohenkatz

      Try this: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/4550

    2. Re:Changed by Mr.+Vage · · Score: 1

      What theme are you using? I really like it. I've found a bunch of similar ones, but none of them put the glass effect on the bookmarks toolbar and the tab strip.

    3. Re:Changed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      what theme is that for firefox? I want it!

    4. Re:Changed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That is http://strata40.megabyet.net/strata40.html and http://strata40.megabyet.net/stratabuddy.html

  7. Under 30, are you? by xzvf · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Lotus 123, Visicalc, WordPerfect, ... I guess you can give MS PowerPoint.

    1. Re:Under 30, are you? by Saint+Stephen · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I guess you forgot Harvard Graphics :-)

    2. Re:Under 30, are you? by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      Indeed. Microsoft stole most of the feature ideas for the products you mentioned form elsewhere. It's cloning the clones.

      --
      Table-ized A.I.
    3. Re:Under 30, are you? by Gadget_Guy · · Score: 1

      Lotus 123, Visicalc, WordPerfect, ... I guess you can give MS PowerPoint.

      Also Access from dBase. It is interesting that you include both Lotus 123 and Visicalc. It just goes to show that borrowing ideas has gone on since year dot. Even Visicalc was just a pretty interface to existing spreadsheet programs.

      Just imagine how crap software would be these days if they had software patents back then. We would still be having to run our spreadsheet in non-interactive batch mode.

      That's why I have no problems at all with incorporating ideas from proprietary software into open source projects. It is a time honoured tradition to look at something and say "I could do this, but better".

      My only beef is when people get all high and mighty about ideas being borrowed in the other direction. Who cares if Microsoft or Apple take ideas that started in the open source world. The end result is an improved user experience for all software.

    4. Re:Under 30, are you? by NekSnappa · · Score: 1

      Well I had until your post.
      Excuse me while I go rinse my brain with bleach, and start my mental conditioning over.

      --
      I want to shoot the messenger!
    5. Re:Under 30, are you? by jedidiah · · Score: 2, Insightful

      > My only beef is when people get all high and mighty about ideas being borrowed in the
      > other direction. Who cares if Microsoft or Apple take ideas that started in the open
      > source world. The end result is an improved user experience for all software.

      No one cares about what Microsoft or Apple copies about until they make noises about "freedom to innovate" or start patent trolling.

      They get flack for lying and hypocrisy, not theft.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
  8. Maple Leaf Icon by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The story shows up with the maple leaf icon. It's like just another whining of those guys up north playing make-belief country.

  9. UIs need to be borrowed from by Darkness404 · · Score: 1

    Seriously, there are only a few ways you can make a decent UI that is familiar. Sharing user interfaces is a -good thing- when it comes down to it, the more familiar an application is, the easier it is to use. Imagine if every single program had a radically different UI. You opened up Firefox and it looked nothing like IE, which looked nothing like Opera which looked nothing like Chrome, if this happened probably everyone would still be using Mosaic. The more UIs borrow from one another, the easier they are to use and the better the UI becomes.

    --
    Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
    1. Re:UIs need to be borrowed from by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't disagree with you, on how standardization would probably benefit the greater whole, but someone somewhere was tasked to create this design and it took time. If it was their intention to be released freely for the public, then so be it. Metalabs probably had a handful of full-time employee just tasked with creating and submitting RFP, and it's always a gamble for the company, but the employee is probably happy just doing what he/she is told, whereas the sales people are bummed out.

      Your attitude is pretty common to us in the art field (from logo design, typography, photography). It's a fine line we tread, especially the freelancer among us, but that's because we don't earn nearly as close as a single programmer (assuming that's the majority of the demographics in /.) The most we can do is stick to our guns and protect our copyrights, even for something simple as a layout design. Licensing is not that prohibitive, especially for an organization such as Mozilla. After all, how many of the art types do you see cruising around in a $40k car? I'd like to think we price things fairly according to the market.

    2. Re:UIs need to be borrowed from by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Imagine if every single program had a radically different UI.

      Imagine if Ford patented the H-gate pattern for 3-speed transmissions. Then GM patented the W-gate. And Dodge patented the O-gate. And Mercedes patented the ess-tsett gate. And Renault patented the cedilla-gate.

      Shit, no one would ever get out of their driveway.

    3. Re:UIs need to be borrowed from by Darkness404 · · Score: 1

      I don't know about you, but I switch programs a lot more quickly than I do switch cars.

      --
      Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
  10. Nothing ripped off, taken, stolen, or missing by noidentity · · Score: 2

    I just wanted to note that apparently Mozilla didn't remove anything from MetLab's servers; all data was intact and unharmed. Things were copied, yes, but that didn't prevent MetLab from continuing to use their UI elements, unlike what their accusations make it sound like (last time I had my car stolen, I couldn't drive it until I got it back, but maybe MetLab inhabits a different dimension than me).

    1. Re:Nothing ripped off, taken, stolen, or missing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's called licensing. When you buy a DVD movie of Avatar, you don't own the *rights* to the movie. In other words, you can't make t-shirts or action figures from the movie even if James Cameron or the production studio can't feel any financial loss or hardship in producing peripheral products to the movie.

  11. Who cares if it was a mockup? by the_raptor · · Score: 1

    What does it matter if it was a mockup or the real thing? Last I checked using "UI elements" was not protected by copyright or patents. This is the same as the Microsoft and Apple "Look-and-feel" lawsuit from last century. The original complaint was about mockups using straight copied images which could be a copyright infraction but the final product even if it looked nearly identical would be non-infringing. KDE and GNOME both have UI themes that completely rip off various versions of Windows and MacOS. The design (and arts in general) community is so deeply incestuous that to complain about this sort of thing just makes you look like a punk. I looked at their "UI elements"I that Google ripped off and it is absolutely nothing special that hasn't been done before. With a color change and slight adjustment there would be no reasonable grounds for claims of infringement.

    --

    ========
    CINC, 4th Penguin Legion
    1. Re:Who cares if it was a mockup? by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

      KDE4 ripped off 7 before they even saw it then?
      Did they use a kTimemachine?

    2. Re:Who cares if it was a mockup? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm willing to bet if you dig deep enough, there's a lot of cross-licensing or IP trading behind closed doors between lawyers, even for UI. It's just that big companies don't announce such mundane things. For starters, the concept of "closing a window" is patented by IBM.

      [google: ibm patent close window]

      As for the art community (which I'm part), we stop being incestuous once we feel the pain of starvation and start working as freelancers. We learn to play by the rules because it's the rules that helps us fight off companies (big and small) from abusing and profiting off our work.

    3. Re:Who cares if it was a mockup? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      kNinja.

  12. Re:Hm.. its a mockup by larry+bagina · · Score: 4, Interesting

    They did (privately) report it to Mozilla first. The blog went up after Mozilla ignored them. Mozilla could have handled it privately if they were concerned. It's obvious Mozilla only apologized because they were receiving negative attention, not because they think there was a problem.

    --
    Do you even lift?

    These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.

  13. reverse the situation by timmarhy · · Score: 3, Insightful
    stop and think of the comments if the situation was reversed.

    yes thats right, slashdot is as bad as fox news.

    --
    If you mod me down, I will become more powerful than you can imagine....
    1. Re:reverse the situation by Reverend+Zanix · · Score: 1

      It would be a non-issue since Firefox is Open Source, right? I'm not expert on Open Source Licensing, but I'd presume that means the GUI art as well.

    2. Re:reverse the situation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Commenters on /. don't claim to be fair and balanced.

    3. Re:reverse the situation by onefriedrice · · Score: 2, Insightful

      stop and think of the comments if the situation was reversed.

      yes thats right, slashdot is as bad as fox news.

      More like people are just people. Our experiences give us bias, and there is nobody who can achieve perfect objectivity in every situation. People here have a propensity to cheer for open source software. Through their own experiences, Fox viewers have a different perspective. It's not bad, it's just life. The alternative would be to throw out all emotion and become as the Vulcans. Yes, we're all biased. Yes, we're all emotional. Yes, we're all hypocrites--especially those of us who pretend to have no bias.

      --
      This author takes full ownership and responsibility for the unpopular opinions outlined above.
    4. Re:reverse the situation by martas · · Score: 1

      i LOLed. that's gotta be the most insulting thing anyone's ever said about poor old /.. (yes, i do put a period after /. if it's the end of the sentence.)

      --
      weinersmith
    5. Re:reverse the situation by omglolbah · · Score: 1

      The logo of firefox is protected (either by copyright or trademark, cant remember which).

      It is why Debian include "IceWeasel" now instead of firefox. Due to anal licensing requirements. (not saying it is a bad thing, just not for me :-p)

  14. Re:Open source, steal badly by ogl_codemonkey · · Score: 1

    Thr's a diffrnce btwn bing drivative and bing an attmpt at a 1:1 copy.

    I disagr.

    Chrs,
    --^x

  15. Fuck Canada. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Fuck Canada.

  16. Re:Hm.. its a mockup by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Mozilla should have told them to piss off. Fuckin' babies crying about nothing.

  17. fox news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    yes thats right, slashdot is as bad as fox news.

    I'm pretty sure Slashdot makes no claim toward being a fair and balanced news source with regard to these issues...

  18. Front page stuff: decent behaviour by Odinlake · · Score: 2, Insightful

    X slights Y, apologizes. Y accepts apology. Isn't it a rather depressing thought that this kind of upright behaviour apparently is unusual enough that it makes news?

    1. Re:Front page stuff: decent behaviour by Ma8thew · · Score: 1

      Would you be saying that if it were Microsoft instead of Mozilla?

    2. Re:Front page stuff: decent behaviour by Odinlake · · Score: 1

      M$ playing nice.. What have you been smoking?

    3. Re:Front page stuff: decent behaviour by Odinlake · · Score: 1

      Cheap shot, couldn't stop myself, know there actually was a similar instance some time ago with M$. Anyway, yes, I would say the same thing. Maybe I even did. M$ has nothing to do with it.

  19. No wonder Mozilla is falling behind by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Look what they try to copy. There aren't much new designs here, or have been on the Web for quite a while now.

  20. Slashvertisement much? by Hognoxious · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I hadn't heard of MetaLab before. Now, I have.

    Mission accomplished.

    --
    Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  21. Re:Hm.. its a mockup by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "The blog went up after Mozilla ignored them."

    Because large organizations respond instantly to every communication, no matter where you direct your correspondence.

    The blog post went up the same day as the mock ups.

  22. WRONG!.. people are small perl scripts. by Tei · · Score: 1

    Most people don't understand how stuff work. Just learn where is a icon, and learn to press it, and press again on other icon with other name... don't learn to use stuff, learn to run these "small scripts". If you moves that icon, you break his "script", if you changes the icon too much, or removes it, the user become lost.
    So to have user work with your stuff ( a Office tools program, or a Desktop ) you have to completelly copy what the users have learn. This is some menus and icons in a Office program, and the taskbar and desktop icons and rightclick options in a Desktop.

    Is not that opensource is cloning closed source, is that for opensource to success with the current crop of users, have to emulate how some closed source apps work. For linux to become succesfull has to clone how a UNIX work. For Gnome to work succesfull has to clone how Windows 95 taskbar work.
    Thats now how devs want to build his stuff, but is the only succesfull and popular way. There are less succesfull and unpopular ways, like for a desktop work in "weird" ways, like Windowmaker...

    FOSS can be original, but is a bad trait that affect negativelly the popularity of the products.

    --

    -Woof woof woof!

  23. Yeah, right.. by EmagGeek · · Score: 1

    "They told me that that the team who put together the blog post and video was unaware of the similarities at the time of inclusion."

    Unaware? Bullshit. That was a copy/paste job. Every pixel is identical.

  24. Re:Hm.. its a mockup by Gerv · · Score: 1

    They did (privately) report it to Mozilla first. The blog went up after Mozilla ignored them.

    Citation needed.

    Gerv

  25. Wow. Everyone involved behaved like adults.... by Bob_Who · · Score: 1

    ...What an unusual story of reasonable, fair minded business professionals that seem ethical, responsive, and willing to admit or forgive a mistake. This is news, these days.

  26. !Stealing by Digital+Vomit · · Score: 1

    I am dumbfounded at how many times the word "steal" is used in these replies. Truly the culture thieves (Disney, RIAA, MPAA, etc.) have already won.

    --
    Modern copyright is theft of culture from everyone and it retards the progress of the useful arts and sciences.
    1. Re:!Stealing by Travelsonic · · Score: 1

      Digital Vomit write:

      I am dumbfounded at how many times the word "steal" is used in these replies. Truly the culture thieves (Disney, RIAA, MPAA, etc.) have already won.

      Indeed. Copying is copying, lying is lying, theft is theft, but copying != theft != lying. Can't tell you how many people I've run into who seem to be unable to grasp this and, not in this thread (yet at least), try to claim the semantical high ground when they really aren't in a position to do so. Words, and their meanings, MATTER.

      --
      If you believe in privacy, and believe you have "nothing to hide" at the same time, you're a goddammed idiot
  27. Re:Hm.. its a mockup by larry+bagina · · Score: 1

    here you go

    --
    Do you even lift?

    These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.

  28. Re:Hm.. its a mockup by Gerv · · Score: 1

    Er, you can't cite your own comment in support of your comment. You need to provide a citation from Metalab that says they did report it privately first, and (preferably) a citation from Mozilla agreeing that this happened.

    My understanding is that Metalab blogged without contacting Mozilla first.

    Gerv

  29. Is this really a problem? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is GUI stuff. I think it's a good idea to standardize on things. Particularly icons. Having many different versions of an icon for doing the same thing is stupid. It just makes them all unrecognizable and useless. Look at a car dash. How many people know what the buttons and knobs do by looking at the latest version of their icons? I'm not sure how to resolve the "it's my idea" part.