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Google Readying To Pull Out of China
Sagelinka writes "Both Google and the Chinese government appear to be leaking word that the search firm may soon shutter its operations there as negotiations between the two break down. Google first threatened to halt its operations in China after disclosing in January that an attack on its network from inside China was aimed at exposing the Gmail accounts of Chinese human rights activists. At the time, Google also said it was reconsidering its willingness to censor search results of users in China as required by the government. 'I think Google thought China would be flexible,' said Rob Enderle, an analyst with the Enderle Group. Google has since been negotiating with the Chinese government to find a way to continue operating in the country. Google did not respond today to requests for comment on the state of the negotiations with China."
Good. Google should never have made that devil's bargain in the first place.
After all, Microsoft never signed a 'do no evil' clause.
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
Frankly, I'm suprised Chinese officials didn't have any Google employees executed over this.
Has a major player like Google ever completely abandoned a country before?
It should be interesting to see what kind of effect this has on Google, I doubt there will be a major change in China over this.
Don't know something? Look it up. Still don't know? Then ask.
"I think Google thought China would be flexible," said Rob Enderle, an analyst with the Enderle Group.
My opinion is that the CEO, Eric Schmidt, differs from the young idealism of Larry Page and Sergey Brin. I do not mean that either side of this leadership is right or wrong but instead simply that they have different motivations. Brin's past has come up before as a source for this (seemingly) new found anti-censorship campaign.
... and I think everyone involved knows it. Until you tell me that Google.cn is dead and I go to the site and confirm it, I will not believe for a second this is possible.
... and that's it. Pesky ideals and ethics have no place in corporate America. Step aside. It's the safest path to churn out tons of cash. They're walking away from too much money and market to pull out of China. It would be bad for stocks and any investors would flip out ... probably even sue.
Google's leadership is conflicted. Brin & Page see the ethics of the situation most important because their motivation seems to be less devoted to money. It certainly seemed to be an exercise in indexing when they started "Google." Schmidt, however, owes his allegience to the shareholders. Or at least feels the pull and responsibility of profit more so than any sort of ethical dilemma. And that's why he was put in that position: to keep investors investing. And, honestly, this last point is why I think this 'removal' is nothing but a rumor or a bluff. Because money is one of the most important things to Google. I don't think the young idealism will stand up to stock prices
Brin and Page's cashing out is really just symbolic of what's already happened at Google. Their motivations are like any other company's. Some of it is about the customer and some of it is about profit
My work here is dung.
> 'I think Google thought China would be flexible,' said Rob Enderle, an analyst with the Enderle Group.
And I think you're an idiot Robert. If there is one word NO ONE in the West would use to describe the Chinese government, it is 'flexible'.
"Gold still represents the ultimate form of payment in the world." - Alan Greenspan, 1999
that number is really good when used two ways.
1) To sell people on the idea of possible market places
2) When trying to dilute negative actions by the government on a per capita basis, like how they claim to be very environmentally friendly on a per capita basis.
I do find it humorous all the people mentioning that Bing(MS)/Yahoo will go as they have no morals, I wonder how many read about the story in angst while using products wholly or partially made in China.
* Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
While China isn't a huge profit machine right now for them, access to 1.3B Internet users will be a big deal down the road.
Android will probably keep Google in the Chinese market and generate targeted advertising revenue in some manner.
Will Google stop buying stuff from China.
The Nexus 1 is made by HTC probably in China.
The iPhone and most of Apples products are made in China so no Google isn't alone.
We as a nation need to stop sending our money to China. How about it Google. Take that big monster pile of cash and build some factories in the US.
Start making phones and motherboards in the US again. Would you pay $10 more for a Google Motherboard built in Iowa or Idaho over an Asus built in China if it was the same quality?
Think of it Google you could pay workers in the US that would then spend that money in the US and buy stuff made in the US "hopefully"
How about not just trying to not be evil but trying to be good?
On a more cynical note. Google isn't making a lot of money in China, odds are the Chinese search engine is benefiting from stolen Google tech will get government support, and they could leverage that tech to start going head to head with Google in world markets.
So they have nothing really to loose by bailing out of China.
See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
So, 20% of the world's population doesn't affect the other 80%?
You're right that other places have a tighter cultural connection, but you can only ignore an elephant in the room for so long. Google may only be a mouse, but that's enough to make the elephant pretty mad.
What money? People keep talking about China as if it is some huge source of profit for google. It is not. Google has a few side startups but its main business, advertising is NOT present in China. There are some chinese advetisers but they advertise OUTSIDE China.
The amount of revenue is around 300 million dollar. A pathetic amount and that is revenue, not profit.
The MBA's have long since declared China as some kind of holy grail, were the streets are made of gold and profits just happen. But it just ain't turning out that way.
For europeans, the US of A was much the same. Oh if we can only launch our product over there, we will have it made. Forget, if you are big in Holland then a flea can squash you in the US. You are nothing. Do 10 miljoen euro's and you will be a tiny blip as a Humvee drives over you. Conquer the german market, go south to france. Not instantly across the ocean, with insane transportation costs, gap in working hours, cultural differences.
Google did have long term plans for China, but they might be wondering that with the little result so far, it is actually worth the hassle.
And I think China might be bluffing as well. If Google moves out, they might not loose all that much, but others could start to examine their own future in China.
In itself, it is not unusual for a company to rethink its activities in a region.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
Who cares about China. Seriously.
I'll bite. I care about China. I care about that one sixth of the world's population developing and coming out of poverty. To a lesser extent, I care about them becoming a serious player in the world market. Right now they play with their money and disrespect their work force beyond belief. It might not make you feel bad to pick up some piece of electronics at Walmart for $20 but I do feel bad when I see "Made in China" and have to think about the health problems the workers might develop ... the environmental damage the plant might create ... the plant's drinking water problems from the lead ... the list goes on. In order to solve these problems, people have to be unafraid to speak up. People need a method for improving these conditions -- however slowly it might come. They don't have that. Removing government censorship mandates is one step toward that. Yeah it's a slow process and it might not seem like much to you but it is to me.
These are topics much closer to home with a much greater impact on us.
I've tried to shake the "East Versus West" mentality as much as possible, it's sad to see it lingers on in some form. All countries are members of the world. Just because one country speaks the same language you do and has the same form of government you do shouldn't make it anymore or less important to you than another country with differences. China's population might even make it more important than Australia to me. You seem to have some very strange misconceptions about allegiances to countries that are disconnected from you. They hold no domain over you whether they're Australia or China. I certainly expect more of my representatives than to say "it's written into law in Australia, it should be in our law here." This "because everyone else is doing it" does not suffice as an argument where I live. Look at the Scandinavian nations that have taken different routes on copyright. It's okay to have different laws in different countries.
What a bunch of Google execs will do with a handful of employees in China... not so much.
I would wager that the precedent this public display sets will have far more implications for you (and what you consume) than Australia's "Think of the Children" campaign.
My work here is dung.
Look at this another way:
Possible Motivation for An Organised Attempt to Hack Google:
Sooner or later, the cost of dealing with this kind of espionage will outweigh the benefit of doing business in China. Looks like Google reckon that time has already come.
Yeah, but it's also nice to be able to recognize the shills and nutters. Whenever I read a report or analysis written by Enderle, Lyons or Didio I immediately consider the opposite of whatever they claim might be true. Whenever I hear anything written by O'Gara I assume it's outlight lies and spin.
It's true no man is an island, but if you take a bunch of dead guys and tie 'em together, they make a good raft.
It seems that Google can't win. Either they make a deal with the devil as SputnikPanic puts it, or they behave ethically and attract savage criticism from armchair quarterbacks everywhere.
Google has a corporate culture of idealism, no doubt fed by the youthfulness of its top executives and much of its staff. Beyond that, they have traditionally been a good corporate citizen, giving a lot of their work back to the community by open sourcing it.
They created the Android phone operating system to be an open alternative to the various proprietary systems. Anyone can take it and run with it. A whole menagerie of excellent smart phones has emerged with Google technology at their core.
Almost all of Google's apps--search, email, scholar, news, maps, voice, and on and on--are free to use, usually in exchange for mild ad text and aggregated use data.
Google gets it. They do things right. They reward innovation, they encourage creativity. They are the epitome of a great American company.
Therefore, to top off their greatness by refusing to deal with a censoring, dissident-hacking corrupt communist-only-in-name dictatorship is both admirable and gutsy and uniquely American. If only all American companies operated on principles rather than pure greed, think what a better society we would have, and a better world.
I feel duty-bound to support Google in whatever ways I can. Right now it's my Nexus One phone, my gmail, and when I have some spare cash I'll buy a few shares of stock. Go, Google! Show those arrogant turds that at least a few Americans still believe in freedom over profit.
it's = "it is"; its = possessive. E.g., it's flapping its wings.
Anything short of Google exiting China completely would just emphasize China's stance that they can censor anyone, any time -- and even the USA will bow to their demands, when push comes to shove.
It's irrelevant if "Bing takes their place", really. This isn't about Bing or Microsoft right now. It's about Google and how THEY will react to being told by a nation how to run a search engine.
If and when Microsoft opportunistically steps in and offers to do what Google refused to do, THEN it will be about Microsoft. We can cross that bridge when we come to it.
In theory, this is why China should care about Google:
http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2010/02/china-scientists-google/
"Rob Enderle, an analyst with the Enderle Group"
No, Rob Enderle is the Enderle Group.
Based on Rob's reporting history with companies like the SCO Group, Novell, IBM and Microsoft, I've long ago concluded he inhabits his own little fictional world.
This report is quoting quite heavily from Rob the Delusional. If he says Google is going, they're probably staying.
Emphasis on "down the road."
1) Google makes ALL its money through Ad revenue.
2) 1.3B Internet users does not equal 1.3B consumers
3) For the most part China still exports most of its goods.
Much of China is undeveloped. While many are moving to urban areas and earning a wage, many wouldn't have what we would describe as "disposable" income.
There are a new class of people in China that can certainly afford "stuff", however that number is much much less that the total internet users (though growing).
Google has also shown that it can break into well established markets and be successful.
Thus I am of the opinion that Google is not in a great big hurry. If I was Google I would play hardball as well. Perhaps down the road it will give you a favorable bargaining position.
Until Chinese start buying products at a fair market value (there is a reason why software in the USA costs 250$ and in China 13$), who exactly are you advertising to, and how can you make any money off of them? I mean if it takes 100 clicks on a link to sell one copy of software at 250$ then that service is worth X. If it takes 10,000 clicks on a link to sell one copy of software at 13$ then that service is worth Y. It is a rather simple equation. Now take a tally of all the X's and all the Y's and subtract that from what it cost to actually provide that service. If you get a negative number for Y, or a number so small in comparison to X, then basically you don't really care all that much one way or another. The only exception would be for "future considerations", basically start market penetration now (which will cost little), and in 10 years or so it might pay off. Of course if your Google, you can also leverage the fact that most of the known world uses your product, and if you keep it up, hopefully in 10 years that won't change, in which case penetrating that market down the road might not be that big a deal anyway.
It will happen, its just many years away is all, and Google need not bend over backwards simply to enter into a market of little value now in the hopes that one day it will work out.