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The Bloodhound Will Stay On the Ground At 1,000 mph

Hugh Pickens writes "BBC reports that engineers designing the world's fastest car, the Bloodhound SSC, built to smash the world land speed record of 763 mph set by the Thrust SuperSonic Car in 1997, believe they have a solution to keep the vehicle flat on the ground at 1,000 mph after initial iterations of the car's aerodynamic shape produced dangerous amounts of lift at the vehicle's rear. John Piper, Bloodhound's technical director, said: 'We've had lift as high as 12 tonnes, and when you consider the car is six-and-a-half tonnes at its heaviest — that amount of lift is enough to make the car fly.' The design effort has been aided by project sponsor Intel, who brought immense computing power to bear on the lift problem. Before Intel's intervention, the design team had worked through 11 different 'architectures' in 18 months. The latest modelling work run on Intel's network investigated 55 configurations in eight weeks. By playing with the position and shape of key elements of the car's rear end, the design team found the best way to manage the shockwave passing around and under the vehicle as it goes supersonic. 'At Mach 1.3, we've close to zero lift, which is where we wanted to be,' says Piper. In late 2011, the Bloodhound, powered by a rocket bolted to a Eurofighter-Typhoon jet engine, will mount an assault on the land speed record, driving across a dried up lakebed known as Hakskeen Pan, in the Northern Cape of South Africa."

49 of 242 comments (clear)

  1. But what happens when... by Fluffeh · · Score: 3, Funny

    Righto, time to ask the serious questions! But what happens when they hit 88 miles per hour?

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    1. Re:But what happens when... by drb_chimaera · · Score: 4, Funny

      Dude, in factors of 88mph this thing goes to 11 ;)

  2. Easier solution by Jeoh · · Score: 4, Funny

    Why don't they make it drive on a treadmill?

    1. Re:Easier solution by PhongUK · · Score: 4, Insightful

      They would have to then engineer a treadmill that can move the belt at 1000MPH, a wind machine that can blow wind at 1000MPH so that the Bloodhounds engines get the intake that it needs. They would then likely have to take care of all the exhaust gasses... ... AND IT WOULDN'T BE AS COOL!

    2. Re:Easier solution by SharpFang · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Since it's a jet engine (pushing against the air), it would be the old "Plane on a treadmill" problem. Meaning it would drive off the treadmill.

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    3. Re:Easier solution by somersault · · Score: 4, Funny

      There is a high tech solution for that, it's called a "strap".

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      which is totally what she said
    4. Re:Easier solution by stiggle · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Its a jet engine pushing it up towards 1000mph, but its a solid fuelled rocket (liquid oxidiser) that pushes it over.
      A lot of their design towards the end of last year was deciding whether to put the Jet over Rocket (JoR) or Rocket over Jet (RoJ) in the tail of the vehicle.

      They decided on the JoR configuration as it provided better stability & airflow through the jet.

      This project is also about getting kids interested in engineering again, and they're making their data publicly available.

      They've been touring with the full size model of the car visiting towns doing workshops with the school kids about the stuff they're doing and experiments & tests the kids can do themselves. They were kind enough to park the car outside my office when they were in my home town.

    5. Re:Easier solution by SharpFang · · Score: 4, Informative

      The air it ejects backwards moves way faster than Mach 1 relatively to the engine. The momentum of ejected material must be higher than momentum of intake material. With rockets, there's no intake material, and it depends strictly on ejecting most of its mass backwards. Speed is a boon but even ejecting the mass slower than the speed of surrounding air (or near-void) gives it thrust.

      With jet, the momentum of air at the intake (which is zero, immobile air) must be lower than exhaust mix ejected backwards, and considering the mass of the jet fuel used is quite low comparing to mass of air used, the mass of the exhaust gas is not significantly higher than mass of intake air, so it must use higher speed to achieve higher momentum and thus thrust - so no matter how fast the plane moves, exhaust gas always moves backwards relative to static air - thus pushes against static air and as result creates a pressure pillow.

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    6. Re:Easier solution by xSauronx · · Score: 2, Funny

      thats what she said! /cries

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    7. Re:Easier solution by SharpFang · · Score: 2, Informative

      Not necessarily - only while exhaust gas speed doesn't exceed the rocket speed. A rocket engine will -still- be propelled when the exhaust gas travels in the same direction as the engine, only slower than the engine. (engine travels at 3 Mach, exhaust speed is 2 Mach, per every kg of fuel ejected the engine gets 2 Mach*kg thrust, despite the ejected gas still traveling at 1 Mach in the same direction as the engine.)

      Of course the question remains whether the "break even" point (where exhaust speed equals rocket speed so exhaust gas remains static relative to surrounding air) can happen in the atmosphere, with air friction, but that's a technological barrier, not a physical one.

      Imagine: a cart with two catapults on it, (total wt. 1kg). First catapult is then loaded with 2kg ball and propels its load to 4m/s. The second one is loaded with 1kg ball and can propel its load by 2m/s.

      Spring the first catapult. The 2kg ball is launched at 2m/s while the cart with its 1kg ball payload starts traveling at 2m/s in the opposite direction.

      Now spring the second catapult: the 1kg ball gets launched at 1m/s backwards relative to the cart speed while the cart accelerates by another 1m/s.

      Now note the second ball travels at 1m/s forward in absolute terms...

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  3. I'm debating if this thing really counts as a car. by pecosdave · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Seriously, you rip the wings off of a fighter jet and make it stay on the ground does it become a car? To really be a "car" I would almost argue it needs to be propelled by the wheels.

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  4. Intel FPU? by dltaylor · · Score: 2, Funny

    Who in their right mind would trust an Intel FPU with their life?

    Yeah, it may look like a troll, but some of us remember the FDIV bug.

    Every billion, or so, calculations might be wrong, but, since you never know WHICH is wrong in an application, it must be assumed that they ALL are.

    1. Re:Intel FPU? by u38cg · · Score: 2, Insightful

      On stuff like this, you make damned sure your calculations are verifiable. That said, the dynamics of the sound barrier are so complex that I think the chances are their models will not be good enough and some fool will end up as landscape to prove it.

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    2. Re:Intel FPU? by alanw · · Score: 3, Informative

      If there was a bug, it's unlikely the final result would make sense. "It would go fastest with the engine in the ground!", or "it would go fastest with the engine backwards!". With that many calculations, one error would be magnified.

      A floating point conversion error caused an Ariane 5 rocket to explode back in 1996

      http://www.ima.umn.edu/~arnold/disasters/ariane.html

    3. Re:Intel FPU? by yams · · Score: 2, Informative
      I don't think this has anything to do with floating point errors. From your linked article:

      Specifically a 64 bit floating point number relating to the horizontal velocity of the rocket with respect to the platform was converted to a 16 bit signed integer. The number was larger than 32,767, the largest integer storeable in a 16 bit signed integer, and thus the conversion failed.

      I would interpret this as:

      Some moron typecast a double to an int without thinking about allowable ranges

      In other words, it is a coding error.

  5. Re:I'm debating if this thing really counts as a c by FinestLittleSpace · · Score: 2

    Aside from the fact that that is a different world record in itself, I would like to point you to TFA which goes to great lengths to explain to complexity of even keeping this thing on the ground, so it's hardly some trivial feat.

  6. And for the rest of the world... by iJusten · · Score: 5, Informative

    763 mph=1 228 km/h
    1000 mph=1609 km/h

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    1. Re:And for the rest of the world... by hcpxvi · · Score: 4, Funny

      Those are both wuss units. Real physicists measure speed in metres per second.

    2. Re:And for the rest of the world... by vikingpower · · Score: 2, Informative

      Or in furlongs per shake ( flg / sh ). 1000 mph = 8,991092 * 10E12 flg / sh

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    3. Re:And for the rest of the world... by beelsebob · · Score: 3, Informative

      That's the same unit. kilometers per second is kilo (1000s of) meters per second. The kilo part is an SI prefix, not part of the unit. Just like kilobytes means 1000s of bytes and kilograms means 1000s of grammes.

      Bob

    4. Re:And for the rest of the world... by polar+red · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Just like kilobytes means 1000s of bytes

      WRONG 'bytes' is NOT a SI unit, so the SI naming simply DOES NOT APPLY. a kilobyte is exactly 1024 bytes, not more, not less.

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    5. Re:And for the rest of the world... by Philip_the_physicist · · Score: 4, Funny

      I;m sure there is an equivalent of Godwin's Law for stories related to science or technology, regarding the correct size of the kilobyte.
      Until someone names it though, remember that Hitler would have supported decimal kilobytes :)

  7. Don't they realise what they've done?! by krou · · Score: 5, Funny

    "that amount of lift is enough to make the car fly"

    At last!

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    1. Re:Don't they realise what they've done?! by chromas · · Score: 2, Funny

      Then attach another rocket.

    2. Re:Don't they realise what they've done?! by bkr1_2k · · Score: 4, Funny

      That's not flying. It's falling, with style.

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  8. Re:I'm debating if this thing really counts as a c by vikingpower · · Score: 2, Funny

    Please do remember that, originally, "car" was any vehicle drawn by animals.

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  9. Re: Real Physicists by confused+one · · Score: 2, Funny

    redshift.

  10. I don't think it does by Viol8 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The only thing it has in common with a car is that it has wheels and runs on the ground. Given its size and weight it would be more accurate to call it a jet powered truck.

    IMO the real land speed record is the wheel driven ones , not the one where you just strap a huge rocket on the back and try and stay on the ground.

    1. Re:I don't think it does by hanabal · · Score: 3, Interesting

      If this works it will be travelling across the land with a higher speed than anything that has ever travelled across the land, hence the title "land speed record". I agree with you that the wheel powered one is in some ways more important, but something has to be declared fastest land vehicle and it seems fitting for it to be the fastest vehicle on the land. If Fred Flinstone could run fast enough to make his car faster than any other car in history, would you deny him the land speed record?

    2. Re:I don't think it does by JustOK · · Score: 5, Funny

      his record would be in doubt. look at the video of his record. Notice how the background seems to keep repeating over and over again.

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    3. Re:I don't think it does by hanabal · · Score: 2, Insightful

      planes fly by using engineering trickery to keep them in the air so why can't a car use engineering trickery to keep it on the ground

  11. Re:I'm debating if this thing really counts as a c by Hadlock · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Depends on if it's a fixed aero-surface vehicle or not. F1 cars had variable surface aero-parts for one or two years before they were outright banned. The idea was that you could increase the angle of attack to increase downpressure in the corners, but make the car aerodynamically neutral in the straightaways so you're spending more power on thrust rather than dividing it between thrust and downforce. Depending on how the rules for "world's fastest car" are written, how the aero is done determines how impressive this really is. If John Carmack can write a javascript to control thrust for a vertical takeoff rocket (Armadillo Aerospace), you can design a fast car with dynamic aerosurfaces. Building a fixed aero car that's neutral at 1000mph but won't fly into the air and flip when you hit a rock is a lot harder to do. Check out this hella sweet video of a Le Mans car doing exactly that at 220mph: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wM4guvo6Ifo
     
    I'll admit this post was an excuse to post that video, but damn if it isn't cool. And that's at a quarter of the speed at which they'll be attempting this. It's not as easy as it looks.

    Here's another cool video of the same thing happening. It's relatively common, even though they design against this exact sort of thing from happening. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y65oUlBMSUs

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  12. Tsutomu's aerodynamic cellular automaton by MichaelCrawford · · Score: 2, Interesting
    You all must remember Tsutomu Shimomura, who enjoyed his fifteen minutes of fame as a result of nabbing Ub3r-H4x0r Kevin Mitnick. Tsutomu and I were good friends at Caltech back in the early 80s. We were both "Scurves", or members of Ricketts House.

    Tsutomu never actually got his degree. I have long lost touch with him, so I don't know whether he ever went back to school, but at least for many years he was working as a research physicist with no degree of any sort. Not even a BS. I actually got better grades than he did. The reason Tsutomu didn't do so well is school was that he was spending all his time publishing original research.

    Anyway, Tsutomu got hired away from Caltech by Los Alamos National Laboratory. His first project there was a cellular automaton implemented in hardware. It was a massively parallel computer, with each "processor" implementing the operation of a single cell. The first cellular automaton was the well-known Conway's Game of Life, but there are many other kinds. Some cellular automata are designed to solve specific kinds of problems. In Tsutomu's case, he was simulating supersonic fluid flow, for use in designing fighter planes, reentry vehicles and the like.

    He described his device as "About as expensive as a Cray, but it solves just that one problem at a thousand times the speed of a Cray".

    I don't have a link or a literature reference for you. I don't know whether he published an unclassified paper about it, but if he did it shouldn't be hard to dig up.

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  13. British space program failure by Kupfernigk · · Score: 4, Funny

    Once again it fails to get off the ground.

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  14. In all seriousness... by OpenSourced · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Anybody knows the point of this?

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    1. Re:In all seriousness... by Brian+the+Bold · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Yes.

      Because records are always increased with time, because it can be done.

      Bloodhound SSC is a project designed to showcase British engineering capabilities and talent and to enthuse and encourage the next generations of engineers who are currently at school and have not yet decided what they want to do for a career.

      Have a look at the project web site, all the information is there.

      http://www.bloodhoundssc.com/

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      -- BtB
    2. Re:In all seriousness... by Lord+Lode · · Score: 2, Funny

      1. Take rocket
      2. Place it horizontal instead of vertical
      3. ???
      4. Profit!

  15. Re:Motor cars weren't by LordLucless · · Score: 4, Informative

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automobile#Etymology

    The...name car is believed to originate from the Latin word carrus or carrum ("wheeled vehicle"), or the Middle English word carre ("cart") (from Old North French), or karros (a Gallic wagon).

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  16. Re:I'm debating if this thing really counts as a c by TapeCutter · · Score: 2, Informative

    I remember watching an F1 race where just before the finish line the guy in second place does a 360deg flip lands on his wheels then rolls across the finish line still in secind place. I love youtube, took me 5 minutes to find it at 2:13 on this compilation.

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  17. Re:I'm debating if this thing really counts as a c by bkr1_2k · · Score: 3, Insightful

    That has nothing to do with the fact that this simply isn't a car. It's a rocket/jet with wheels attached. Just because a plane has wheels doesn't make it a car either. Yes, it's very difficult (to understate the issue) to keep any object traveling 1000 mph on the ground, but that doesn't negate the GP's point. It's not a car. It's not designed like a car would be, it's not propelled like a car would be, and it's not driven like a car would be.

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  18. Holy hell seatbelted to a nuclear warhead by paiute · · Score: 2, Funny

    This story made me think of the phrase "not enough of him left to fill a matchbox".

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  19. The race is on by OzPeter · · Score: 2, Informative

    There are 3 teams racing to break this record. The Brits, the Aussies and a USA/Canada team.

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  20. Re:I'm debating if this thing really counts as a c by Vectormatic · · Score: 3, Insightful

    i would argue that not the design method, but rather the designed purpose would determine what an object is.

    This thing is designed to move accross a hard surface supported by wheels, pretty much making it a car (notice i explicitely said wheels to rule out any funnymen with the 'but but hovercraft is a car' argument).

    It might not be a car in the traditional ford sense of the word, you wont drive your kids to school in it, and it isnt practical for everyday use, but its purpose is still driving accross terain.

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  21. Car? Plane? by Terrasque · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Let me see.. Rocket engine, uplift much higher than weight, 1000mph...

    That's a jet plane, not a car. Sure, it got better landing wheels than normal, and a bit special body, but it's still a goddamn jet plane.
    If that's a car, we've had flying cars for over 50 years now.

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  22. Re:Motor cars weren't by L4t3r4lu5 · · Score: 2, Informative

    The...name car is believed to originate from the Latin word carrus or carrum ("wheeled vehicle")...

    Excellent point! You've totally refuted the OP's point about this not being a real car.

    Let me show you a few "cars."
    Here's one!
    Here is another "car"
    These are all really fast cars!

    There's no separate league for cars driven by internal combustion engine, but here is the fastest of those.

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  23. Re:I'm debating if this thing really counts as a c by Hadlock · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Only in the 2000-2004 F1 series*. Each race in the series assigns points, so a 2nd place (2pts) is far superior to a DNF (fleet+1, or 9pts). You can recover from a 2nd, or even a 3rd place and still win the series, but after one DNF you're just racing due to your sponsorship contract, hoping another team has more DNF or DNS than you do by the end.
     
    *2000-2004 is when Schumacher wiped the floor with the F1 series, pretty much running uncontested in 1st place with the Ferrari team, basically uncontested for five years.

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  24. Hands-free? by ShannaraFan · · Score: 2, Funny

    Hopefully it includes SYNC or some other means of hands-free cell phone use. You know, for that ever-important phone call. Can't really consider it a car until the driver can yak away while driving...

  25. Re:I'm debating if this thing really counts as a c by TapeCutter · · Score: 2, Informative

    If you come second in every race of the season then it's very likely you will win the championship.

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  26. Re:I'm debating if this thing really counts as a c by radish · · Score: 2, Informative

    Umm...I've been watching F1 for a lot of years, and I'm pretty sure you never got more points for a DNF than for a second place. DNF = 0 points (except in very unusual circumstances), 2nd = 8 last year or 18 this year.

    As for a DNF killing your season, that's crap. Button won the championship last year and got 1 DNF, Hamilton did the same the year before. In 2007 Raikkonen won the championship despite 2 DNFs, likewise Alonso in 2006. For a driver to complete every race in the season is pretty rare, particularly if they're actually competitive (and thus driving hard).

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