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China Criticizes Google's "US Ties"
krou writes "State-run news agency Xinhua has attacked what it calls Google's 'intricate ties with the US government' amongst its high level officials, claiming that it's 'an open secret that some security experts in the Pentagon are from Google.' They have also accused the company of trying to change Chinese society by imposing American values on it. Xinhua said that 'One company's ambition to change China's internet rules will only prove to be ridiculous.' Google has denied the claims. Google spokeswoman Jessica Powell said that 'The decision to review our business in China was entirely Google's and Google's alone.'"
that while some Internet users in certain Western countries may see the Internet as something which exists independently of society and is merely a medium through which two individuals may communicate, from the Chinese POV it is a part of society and therefore allowed to be controlled.
To be totally honest, I agree with the Chinese POV, since $People \in Society$ and $Internetusers \subset Society$.
Of course Google is trying to impose "American Values" on China. As it stands, they can't gain enough power to control things there. If China becomes more like America, then Google (and other companies) will have a bigger say in the government, and will be able to make more money.
Is it a surprise to anyone that that's what they're trying to do?
China is taking its lead from North Korea on the propaganda front?
If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
US Criticizes Google's 'Chinese Ties'
At least thats how it seems. Can't please everyone so its better to do what feels right for you (for most companies what feels right seems to be what is most profitable).
My government is using the Internet to spy on me? Who knew?
Secret Services/Intelligence must get information
there is information in the internet
where is information seeked for: in search enghines
to know what is searched for you ought to sit behind a search engine, best Google
and you can then also influence what is being found
much cheaper than Echelon
And in the answer streams from a search engine one can embedd other things such as trojans etc...
QED
???
If I wanted to read chinese propagada, I would go to the source:
http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/
Google is behaving far more ethically than the State Department. If they were really Pentagon puppets, they'd be more concerned with trying to add 2% to the value of the Yuan rather than with trivial little things like free speech and political freedom.
If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
China needs to learn that in the U.S. the corporations run the state, not the other way around.
So... A government controlled news entity IN CHINA is reporting dirt about google to the Chinese people. Why the heck is this news?
While it would not at all surprise me if the relationship between aspects of the US intelligence apparatus and aspects of google is rather cozy(they'd merely be joining the long list of data broker companies for which that is true*cough* ChoicePoint, *cough* Acxiom, *cough*AT&T); it takes real chutzpah for a country where enterprises owned outright by the state and/or military are common, standard practice, to start moralizing about the shady and nebulous ties between google and America's spook infestation.
As ridiculous as this is, at least they're fabricating crap in order to keep out a search engine, instead of fabricating crap in order to start a war.
People in power do whatever they want. It usually works. On the rare occasion it doesn't, it makes the history books.
The Institute of Incomplete Research has determined that 9 of out 10
???
If I wanted to read chinese propagada, I would go to the source:
http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/
You know, I wish I 1) spoke some variant of Chinese and 2) knew more about Chinese media outlets. I wrote a journal post about this situation back when it was developing and tried to find a diverse viewpoint in Chinese news related to Google's ultimatum. It turned out to be more humorous and an exercise in futility than anything else. Does anyone who speaks the language know of a 'subversive' news source out of China? Or anything at all offering balanced and multiple views in the reporting? All I see is multiple sources looking like they are offering you unbiased news when, in fact, they are regurgitating something to you that is within a government approved standard deviation of the government approved message.
...
Really, really sad. Also a stark reminder of how thankful I should be of the diversity of our press in the United States no matter how sorry it may look at times
My work here is dung.
It is just one company, right? In theory they shouldn't even be taking notice...
If they had actually expected to come out fully unscathed from this, they would have not even blinked.
China's censorship system had worked so far only because the Chinese always had options/alternatives when blocked from sites containing "dangerous ideas". The Chinese public simply accepted the government explanation. But Google, as the world's leading search engine, is something that is pretty much an inherent part of internet. Blocking a valuable internet resource requires much more rationalization, which is exactly what has the Chinese government sweating. It will be much harder to sell to the internet-using Chinese public. As such, this actually can lead to a relaxing of censorship in China. If not, it will lead to a realization on the part of Chinese public as to how they are actually visibly suffering by tolerating a non-democratic fascist state. Both are the first baby steps on the road to self-determination and freedom for the people in China.
Sadly, the said Chinese government is banking on having an alternative in competing search engines such as that of Microsoft. If Microsoft fails to follow Google's example, it will now actually be actively working to keep the seeds of democracy out of China.
Not that Microsoft, would be interested in anything apart from its profit line, considering it doesn't really believes in any kind of business ethics.
Yes, we all love to hate the chinese. But there's some truth in there. The US is aggressively exporting its values and believes to the entire world, and it isn't asking if anyone wants it. Hollywood is the biggest propaganda machine ever, far more subtle and effective than any Nazi or Soviet Russian government efforts. And yes, Google is part of a culture as much as it is a company, and is bringing that culture to the world.
Most of the world is eating it up. A lot of people welcome it. Few of them made a conscious decision among alternatives on the matter of culture and spirit.
I'm not debating if the US culture is "good" or "bad" here, just stating the fact that the amount of culture that is in the american way of doing business is seldom reflected.
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
The US government has done many awful and unjust things but it is a beacon of human rights when compared to the Peoples Republic of China.
What's happens to US citizens when they criticize the US government? What happens to Chinese citizens when they criticize the current government of China?
An honest answer to this test should quiet the post we will see here today. Somebody is going to apologize for the atrocities of the Chinese government by saying that the US government is no better. I can criticize both the US government and the Chinese government. I don't fear any reprisal from the US government for that criticism. Chinese citizens can have their lives taken away or be imprisoned for little more than a charge of 'creating instability'.
Google only ever had one small bit of leverage when negotiating with China : Chinese citizens know that Google is more legit & honest than Badu. We're totally unsurprised that Chia spins away this leverage.
The Christian religion has been and still is the principal enemy of moral progress in the world. -- Bertrand Russell
The best propaganda is based on truth. Of course Google wants to impose American values on the world - Sergey Brin is a US immigrant who moved to America precisely because he thinks American values are a good thing. Google publicly asked the NSA for help securing its network, so the 'ties' between Google and US intelligence are not exactly secret and, given that the NSA and Google are the two largest employers of data mining specialists in the USA, it wouldn't be at all surprising if both employ quite a few people that have worked at the other.
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
China owns the playing field and sets the rules for that playing field. Google has attempted to play in China's playground but cannot survive within the constraint of its rules. It has exhausted all efforts to make adjustments and compromises but China will have none of it. Google has two options -- change the way it does business or leave. These options are rather similar to China's options -- allow changes in the way it deals with business or make them leave. It doesn't have to be an emotionally or politically charged problem at all.
Google's options are limited. Leaving is clearly the last resort and it seems that they are taking that one. China is keeping its playground, but Google is taking the ball back home.
I'm not sure Google is actively working to further the interests of the US. Instead, Chinese leadership is incapable of appreciating the differences between US policy, US culture, and plain ole' innate freedoms. Chinese leadership sees everything through a Han cultural perspective, with everyone not Han is either a strong barbarian intent upon conquering China or a weak barbarian who should be conquered by China.
Hoist Number One and Number Six.
Bah. As if in the US's case the "country" has anything to say about it. China has some notion of "country" and keeps its companies aware of it. The US is owned lock, stock and barrel by corporations who throw around terms like country and patriotism when it is convenient for them - usually when they need some cannon fodder and tax payer funding to defend or acquire what is in their corporate interest.
Leave the gun, take the cannolis.
That's not what is happening here. What's really happening is that the last 12 years of giving the rich tax breaks and giving them free money has caused them to be even more greedy. Instead of reinvesting that money in America, they fired all their American workers and closed down the American factories and opened new ones in China. They started off saying that only the low-skilled work will be moved, to where they are now moving engineering and higher level skills. And they are trying to hide that they are doing this. Just look at IBM recently saying that they will stop reporting employee levels by country. The rich don't care if they destablize America and get a little dirty working with a dictatorship because the were already dirty making their money in the US. The movement of jobs doesn't indicate that people don't care about these jobs, it shows that the rich have no allegance to any country and are killing America for greed. Plain and simple.
Quit playing Monopoly with Bill.
Linux - of the people, by the people, and for the people.
I watched an interesting show on how Google operates and their conclusion was that Google's business is based on "Trust". Unlike many organizations, Google is in business because we trust that they will work and operate to keep our data as safe as they can. It is something that a vast majority of the public including myself takes for granted because so far they haven't messed up badly. According to Google, China was caught hacking their systems, stealing IP and personal user data. If this keeps going on the way it does, then Google can't keep the trust of the public and it might mean the downfall of their company. (I can't use Google because China keeps hacking in and stealing my data.)
Originally Google went into China because when you really think about it, filtering users from content does not betray this idea of "Trust". Your data is still safe but China stepped over the line when they started hacking into Google.
The best way for Google to leave China which is likely what they are now planning to do is to drop the filtering. This generates good will with the remaining users. China is correct in that Google is pushing Western ideals however in many ways this is China's fault to begin with. If China hadn't hacked Google to begin with this whole mess would not have started.
I personally don't see a huge problem with China filtering searches. It's their own country and their own rules. Admittedly this goes against freedom of speech (a democratic idea) but China's pretty far from a democracy. Hopefully someday, their public will realize that it is something valuable enough to fight for but for now it doesn't seem to be the case. However hacking your business partner is far from acceptable.
If you have a 401K, stocks, or any other investment account then you might want to reread your statement with "me" instead of "them". The fact is most middle-class Americans have investments in these mega-corporations and profit from their "greed".
I would propose that in fact, it is this ever more difficult quest to show stock-holder gains that lead to these things that you hate so much. However if a company doesn't do this things, then the stockholders sue saying that the CEO's were not doing their best to maximize profits.
Voting them all out of office, now that's change I can believe in.
Yet again proving that, alone, a broadband connection in the basement is insufficient to connect people with reality.
Leave the gun, take the cannolis.
You mean like free trade?
The Chinese government *wants* American values, but cafeteria style. They want free exchange of information so long as it is information leaving America and entering China. They don't want information leaving China or worse yet circulating within China. The Chinese government wants America to be open and pursue classical liberal trade policy while it remains closed and pursues mercantilist policies. It wants America to be true to its respect of sovereign nations, but to forget about every individual's sovereignty over his own opinions. It demands the American not interfere in free markets while the Peoples Liberation Army operates businesses and party official parlay their connections into business wealth.
China has rejected the extreme form of socialism it was founded on, but it has not adopted the enlightened capitalism of Europe and America. It has recreatd the caricature of American capitalism portrayed in its own propaganda: a system in which corrupt wealthy men pull the strings of corrupt government.
It's no wonder they don't want American values: those values empower the working class.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
Most people do. Here is what they see about financial holdings in the US:
Top 1% owns 43%
Next 19% owns 50%
Bottom 80% owns 7%
Most people see no "me" in those statements.
> However if a company doesn't do this things, then the stockholders sue saying that the CEO's were not doing their best to maximize profits.
A situation which could be remedied by changes to some laws. More importantly would be getting Wall Street off companies backs so they can plan more than 3 months out. The latter has less to do maximizing corporate profits than the Street's own interests, profits, and bonuses.
Leave the gun, take the cannolis.