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Is the Line-in Jack On the Verge of Extinction?
SlashD0tter writes "Many older sound cards were shipped with line-out, microphone-in, and a line-in jacks. For years I've used such a line-in jack on an old Windows 2000 dinosaur desktop that I bought in 2000 (600 Mhz PIII) to capture the stereo audio signal from an old Technics receiver. I've used this arrangement to recover the audio from a slew of old vinyl LPs and even a few cassettes using some simple audio manipulating software from a small shop in Australia. I've noticed only recently, unfortunately, that all of the four laptops I've bought since then have omitted a line-in jack, forcing me to continue keeping this old desktop on life support. I've looked around for USB sound cards that include a line-in jack, but I haven't been too impressed by the selection. Is the line-in jack doomed to extinction, possibly due to lobbying from vested interests, or are there better thinking-outside-the-box alternatives available?"
So that leaves us with some interesting cases:
Look, if you could give us more information like what operating system you use and what motherboards you're using, I'd be willing to track down the manuals on them and verify there's no line-in jack and take a boomerang to the head if I'm mistaken. But couldn't this problem have been solved with a couple bucks? My eeePC netbook has a line-in. I really don't see them disappearing at all.
P.S. If you're looking for something a little more professional, external Audigys and M-Audio Pre USBs are useful for what you're doing though they are pricey ($200 USD).
My work here is dung.
There's inevitably some noise that creeps in with a line-level jack on your PC. It's not much, but it drives audiophiles to distraction. Moving it to a USB device helps reduce the noise by an order of magnitude or so. That may be one thing driving the change.
No-no-no. You need a 50 dollar gold plated monster transistor for it to sound reasonably ok. All my 5 cent transistors are solid gold.
Well, you know, there are still a couple of people around that play musical instruments (you know, those expensive things you don't have to plug in), and we sometimes like to record the sounds that we make. And others sometimes go to listen to people playing these instrument things, and they sometimes like to record the sounds. Craziness!
Unlimited growth == Cancer.
The line-in jack will disappear with physical audio. Honestly, unless you're a DJ, it's pretty unlikely that you have any audio that doesn't exist as something digital (MP3, AAC, WAV, etc.)
Why drop it? Its not as if it is any major cost to the machine these days. I don't use my line-in that often but it is certainly useful and it would be a pain to have to go an get a USB adapter for something so basic.
I suspect that the models that don't have them are low end computers where the manufacture tries to cut costs in the most extreme ways.
Jumpstart the tartan drive.
Microphone jacks have gain. Gain leads to clipping. And clipping leads to the dark side.
Why do you need two inputs? I highly doubt there's much difference between the line-in jack on your sound card and the stereo microphone jack.
A microphone input is expecting microphone-level signals - not line level. There's a big difference, and without something similar to a DI box to correct the level, all you'll get if you put line level audio into a microphone jack is distorted overdriven noise.
Putting moderation advice in your
It's POSSIBLE that with that disabled the mic port acts just like a line-in.
It doesn't. Trust me. I was handed 12 hours of video with overdriven audio that can't be corrected (there's no good correction for clipped audio), all recorded that way because someone set up the recorder with line level audio going into the mic jack and never checked the recorded levels.
Putting moderation advice in your
Seriously, anyone who can't find analogue sound input for their computer hasn't bothered looking very hard. I can find it for you USB, Firewire, PCI, or PCIe. Stereo, 8 channel, 128 channel, whatever you like. You name the kind of audio capture you need, someone out there makes a product for it. All of them will be better quality than the line-in jack on a laptop, which generally has really poor filtering and thus lots of noise.
The parent is absolutely right in terms of the Behringer as a good, cheap solution. Need something better? You can get something like the M-Audio MobilePre (http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/MobilePreUSB.html) which has pretty good converters and some features you don't need. Still not enough, have to have no holds barred? Get yourself an Benchmark ADC1 (http://www.benchmarkmedia.com/adc1/) converter, which is just about as good as it get.
No matter what the level, from a highly adequate $35 USB audio interface, up to a $1,700 dedicated converter, you can get something that'll meet your needs, and do so online.
The only reason line in is dying on soundcards is people aren't using it much. On laptops, space is also a premium so why bother? Many desktop cards still have it, as they've got the space for more inputs.
This "musical instrument" cancer MUST BE STOPPED. When unlicensed amateurs are permitted to record anything they want, they devalue the musical landscape for legitimate musicians who are under corporate contracts. Do you want Miley Cyrus to starve, and Lady Gaga to go naked? Major recording studios stand to lose MILLIONS of dollars. We need legislation to control the unlicensed spread of microphones and pickup jacks. Anything capable of capturing sound should be subjected to a 60% surtax, the proceeds of which should be delivered directly to the Harry Fox Agency.
Why don't all car radio setups come with a line-in jack? Even many of the aftermarket ones don't have them (on the front, at least). Such a cheap part, and yet so many people use their ipods via FM tuner or tape adapter.
"The universe seems neither benign nor hostile, merely indifferent." --Carl Sagan
The word you're looking for is "gain", not "power". Some microphones also require power (either of the low-voltage "plug-in power" variety or full 48V phantom power), but if you plug those devices into a line input, you'll get no sound at all.
As for the differences in grades of gear, yes, to some degree, that's true, with the caveat that some $10/channel hardware will outperform the $100/channel hardware and other $10/channel hardware will be utter excrement. In the audio space, there's often more correlation between price and marketing costs than between price and product quality, IMHO....
More to the point, the older the gear, the more expensive it has to be before you are likely to get good sound. There are exceptions, but in general, as the costs of the underlying components decrease, it becomes more practical to build higher quality gear for less money. Thus, a recently designed device that costs $50 is likely to sound as good as a ten-year-old device that costs $100. High quality gear gets cheaper to design and build over time. So the high end stuff today might or might not be a great improvement over the midrange stuff today, but either one is going to be a lot better than the midrange stuff from ten years ago, yet both may still be comparable to the high-end gear from ten years ago.
Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.
I know that it's an age-old rule of correcting others that one makes a mistake of the same nature in the corrective statement (I'm likely to suffer a few), but those phone jacks that you list (typically called TS for tip-sleeve when mono or TRS for tip-ring-sleeve when stereo or balanced mono) are most commonly sized in 1/4", 3.5mm, and 2.5mm. 1/2" would be awesome, but I've never seen one.
If you have $10 and a soldering iron, you can build a simple voltage divider network, and use that to attenuate the "line out" from your turntable to levels that are appropriate for your "mic in" port. For example, take a 9k ohm and 1k ohm resistor and go across the common and signal wires on your line out, and take the connection between the 2 resistors as the input to your mic in to get 1/10th the voltage of the "line out". These are almost certanly not the right values for the job, but the principle is the same, and will allow you to eliminate the clipping problem.
Microphone port pumps some current into whatever is connected to it (to power the microphone up)
Line In doesn't provide any power, it only analyses incoming signal from external source, and will be often separated through transoptors or the like to protect the hardware from overcurrent from difference of potential between the devices.
Not sure why this was modded +5 informative; it's a load of hooey...
Normal dynamic microphones are passive and do not require any external power to "power the microphone up". They generate a small current, usually from a coil moving inside a magnet. This is why you need a pre-amp of some kind to bring your mic-level signal up to a line-level signal that a regular amp can deal with. Your sound card has this built in.
If you have a condensor microphone, then it will need external power of some kind to function. This usually comes in the form of phantom power (+48V usually) over a balanced twisted pair microphone wire. I can promise you that your average soundcard (and pretty much anything with 1/8" jacks) does *not* supply phantom power. You need an external power supply of some kind to use a condensor mic with your soundcard.
The only real difference between a line in and a mic in on your soundcard is the expected input gain. A mic input has a pre-amp and expects a mic level input. If you feed it a line level input and it doesn't attenuate it (or bypass the preamp) then you'll clip the hell out of the signal.
appleguru.org
However the signal to noise ratio will be horrible because of all the unnecessary gain of the Mic amp stage.
for two reasons
1. (as another poster said) - you're attenuating and then amplifying a signal: noise
2. LPs are recorded with the high frequencies boosted, and this is then attenuated in a dedicated circuit within the receiver. By skipping this, you're going to end up with tinny recordings (did I mention noise?).
Seriously, unless you've got a nice sound interface, don't bother recording LPs, cassettes, etc - the results won't be worth it. Cetainly that USB thing from thinkgeek (linked earlier) won't produce good recordings. Unless it's a bootleg or something... I've got a nice multitrack firewire interface, and even then I'd only think about recording LPs, cassettes, etc if I had a really nice deck..