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Is the Line-in Jack On the Verge of Extinction?
SlashD0tter writes "Many older sound cards were shipped with line-out, microphone-in, and a line-in jacks. For years I've used such a line-in jack on an old Windows 2000 dinosaur desktop that I bought in 2000 (600 Mhz PIII) to capture the stereo audio signal from an old Technics receiver. I've used this arrangement to recover the audio from a slew of old vinyl LPs and even a few cassettes using some simple audio manipulating software from a small shop in Australia. I've noticed only recently, unfortunately, that all of the four laptops I've bought since then have omitted a line-in jack, forcing me to continue keeping this old desktop on life support. I've looked around for USB sound cards that include a line-in jack, but I haven't been too impressed by the selection. Is the line-in jack doomed to extinction, possibly due to lobbying from vested interests, or are there better thinking-outside-the-box alternatives available?"
So that leaves us with some interesting cases:
Look, if you could give us more information like what operating system you use and what motherboards you're using, I'd be willing to track down the manuals on them and verify there's no line-in jack and take a boomerang to the head if I'm mistaken. But couldn't this problem have been solved with a couple bucks? My eeePC netbook has a line-in. I really don't see them disappearing at all.
P.S. If you're looking for something a little more professional, external Audigys and M-Audio Pre USBs are useful for what you're doing though they are pricey ($200 USD).
My work here is dung.
Why do you need two inputs? I highly doubt there's much difference between the line-in jack on your sound card and the stereo microphone jack. If you were hoping a line-in jack would somehow give you better audio quality, I think you'll have to look to more professional gear for that. Try Guitar Center.
Breakfast served all day!
All motherboards have em.
More likely, line-in is just not a feature used by enough mobile users to make it worth putting on a laptop.
Most laptops don't come with 7.1 surround sound output either.. and it's not because surround sound is fading into the sunset..
Any desktop motherboard with integrated sound will probably have one though.. and just about any add-on sound card will as well.
_AND_ any decent external sound "card" will probably have one.. have a look at terratec's produce line. The DMX 6Fire USB has a whole plethora of inputs.
Even cheap mini-itx boards (MSI Wind for instance) have line in.. just get yourself one o` those...
There's inevitably some noise that creeps in with a line-level jack on your PC. It's not much, but it drives audiophiles to distraction. Moving it to a USB device helps reduce the noise by an order of magnitude or so. That may be one thing driving the change.
If I'm not mistaken, a 5-cent resistor will do the same thing.
DRM 'manages access' in the same way that a prison 'manages freedom'
What about a USB recording device? They [potentially] have less noise, and they're pluggable anywhere.
My latest three desktops have all come with a line-in, as have my latest two notebooks, including a netbook. Only my wife's MacBook doesn't have Line In, of my most recently purchased hardware.
Also, there's the Griffin iMic, a quite cheap device with line in. (Switchable between mic-level and line-level in, even.)
Another non-functioning site was "uncertainty.microsoft.com."
The purpose of that site was not known.
Yes, a lot of new laptops have neither a microphone nor line-level audio input jack. Most people will never use it.
One easy solution is just to get a USB line in adapter for around $40, rather than having to keep an entire dinosaur computer around for just one function.
I don't know how well it works, but here's a $10 adapter on Ebay that does video too. There are other similar products around.
Can anyone tell me how to set my sig on Slashdot?
load the cassette tapes into my Apple ][+ if you take away my line-in port?
And so do all my pci soundcards. Maybe you're just buying crappy hardware?
All the new desktops still have line-in jacks, as far as I've seen. If you're specifically looking at a portable platform intended to reduce size & weight, then of course they're going to be dropping jacks that are rarely used in a portable situation. However, line-in is still all over the place, and is great for consolidating media devices into 1 nice display & audio setup based around a non-portable computer, as well as the platform shifting purposes you're describing. I don't think the jack is going anywhere in the reasonable future.
It might be less of a conspiracy and more of a supply-and-demand thing. Most people have no use for and could care less about line in (I am not one of them, however). Since you are talking about laptops, anything that reduces space is often omitted, if it isn't really needed.
On desktop machines, I have not seen line-in disappear at all. And I bought a laptop last year, and it has mic/line-in, too.
No-no-no. You need a 50 dollar gold plated monster transistor for it to sound reasonably ok. All my 5 cent transistors are solid gold.
I still am unsure of the difference between line-in and microphone-in, other than audio level (sensitivity).
But the Audio Pad makes your music sound more... mercurial, or whatever the adjective is this week.
How can I believe you when you tell me what I don't want to hear?
Actually three resistors.
http://www.electronics-tutorials.com/basics/attenuators.htm
It's called a pi network (because of the schematic shape.)
-- I have a private email server in my basement.
You have to put some care into it. A wire-wound resistor will act as a low-pass filter...
Can you be Even More Awesome?!
(...but to be fair, a real attenuator pad really is nothing more than a few 5-cent resistors)
How can I believe you when you tell me what I don't want to hear?
Well, you know, there are still a couple of people around that play musical instruments (you know, those expensive things you don't have to plug in), and we sometimes like to record the sounds that we make. And others sometimes go to listen to people playing these instrument things, and they sometimes like to record the sounds. Craziness!
Unlimited growth == Cancer.
All the desktop machines I have have them, including the ultra-cheap large buyer business workstation that I have floating around. Desktop might take up a little more room, but they are more efficient and cost less.
The line-in jack will disappear with physical audio. Honestly, unless you're a DJ, it's pretty unlikely that you have any audio that doesn't exist as something digital (MP3, AAC, WAV, etc.)
Why drop it? Its not as if it is any major cost to the machine these days. I don't use my line-in that often but it is certainly useful and it would be a pain to have to go an get a USB adapter for something so basic.
I suspect that the models that don't have them are low end computers where the manufacture tries to cut costs in the most extreme ways.
Jumpstart the tartan drive.
This may be a stupid question, but what is the difference between the line-in and the microphone ports? Aren't they both used to receive data from an outside source?
Actually two resistors.
RF stuff is done on the basis of matched impedances (maximum power transfer configuration and also avoids reflection issues). Audio stuff is generally done on the basis of a low impedance source driving a high impedance load (maximum voltage transfer configuration) so to attenuate the signal you ideally want a potential divider with a resistance much greater than the impedance of the source and much less than the impedance of the load (generally not a problem as the two are usually VERY different)
However having said all this attenuating the signal and feeding it into a laptop mic input is about the worst solution I can think of. Low level audio signals and laptops DO NOT mix well. .
note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
There are lots of USB devices out there with a line-in jack.
Here's one I like a lot. Unfortunately, Turtle Beach has discontinued this product; fortunately, there are some still out there, so buy one now before it's too late.
http://www.turtlebeach.com/products/audio-advantage-srm/home.aspx
P.S. This is discontinued... does anyone know where I can find anything remotely similar that is not discontinued?
steveha
lf(1): it's like ls(1) but sorts filenames by extension, tersely
A line-input jack takes up one of the most valuable resources on a laptop - space. Laptops are also electrically noisy because they are designed to be small and energy efficient, not electrically quiet. A laptop is not meant to be a good recording device.
Almost every PC sold has at least one Line-input jack. My PC has a line input jack and a coaxial digital S/PDIF input on the motherboard. You can buy USB devices all day long that have up to 24 input channels. I have a pair of 10-channel boards, each having 8 unbalanced analog, 2 XLR, and 1 more coaxial S/PDIF port.
Why do you need two inputs? I highly doubt there's much difference between the line-in jack on your sound card and the stereo microphone jack.
A microphone input is expecting microphone-level signals - not line level. There's a big difference, and without something similar to a DI box to correct the level, all you'll get if you put line level audio into a microphone jack is distorted overdriven noise.
Putting moderation advice in your
It's POSSIBLE that with that disabled the mic port acts just like a line-in.
It doesn't. Trust me. I was handed 12 hours of video with overdriven audio that can't be corrected (there's no good correction for clipped audio), all recorded that way because someone set up the recorder with line level audio going into the mic jack and never checked the recorded levels.
Putting moderation advice in your
Seriously, anyone who can't find analogue sound input for their computer hasn't bothered looking very hard. I can find it for you USB, Firewire, PCI, or PCIe. Stereo, 8 channel, 128 channel, whatever you like. You name the kind of audio capture you need, someone out there makes a product for it. All of them will be better quality than the line-in jack on a laptop, which generally has really poor filtering and thus lots of noise.
The parent is absolutely right in terms of the Behringer as a good, cheap solution. Need something better? You can get something like the M-Audio MobilePre (http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/MobilePreUSB.html) which has pretty good converters and some features you don't need. Still not enough, have to have no holds barred? Get yourself an Benchmark ADC1 (http://www.benchmarkmedia.com/adc1/) converter, which is just about as good as it get.
No matter what the level, from a highly adequate $35 USB audio interface, up to a $1,700 dedicated converter, you can get something that'll meet your needs, and do so online.
The only reason line in is dying on soundcards is people aren't using it much. On laptops, space is also a premium so why bother? Many desktop cards still have it, as they've got the space for more inputs.
Forgot to mention that they were using the Mic input with the boost turned off.
Putting moderation advice in your
I don't understand why people will spend five grand on a laptop, get pissed about its lack of features but at home still have an 8 year old computer that they relay on for all of their real work and data backup. Get a $500 desktop, it will outclass your laptop easily if you build it yourself and skip the microsoft tax. As far as speed and utility are concerned it'll blow any laptop away... then get a netbook for travel. If you're trying to rip 8tracks to MP3 while sitting in Starbucks, you're doing it wrong.
This "musical instrument" cancer MUST BE STOPPED. When unlicensed amateurs are permitted to record anything they want, they devalue the musical landscape for legitimate musicians who are under corporate contracts. Do you want Miley Cyrus to starve, and Lady Gaga to go naked? Major recording studios stand to lose MILLIONS of dollars. We need legislation to control the unlicensed spread of microphones and pickup jacks. Anything capable of capturing sound should be subjected to a 60% surtax, the proceeds of which should be delivered directly to the Harry Fox Agency.
Why don't all car radio setups come with a line-in jack? Even many of the aftermarket ones don't have them (on the front, at least). Such a cheap part, and yet so many people use their ipods via FM tuner or tape adapter.
"The universe seems neither benign nor hostile, merely indifferent." --Carl Sagan
Many older sound cards were shipped with line-out, microphone-in, and a line-in jacks. For years I've used such a line-in jack on an old Windows 2000 dinosaur desktop that I bought in 2000 (600 Mhz PIII) to capture the stereo audio signal from an old Technics receiver.
We've arranged this with hardware manufacturers, so that you stop pirating music, Johnny.
regards,
RIAA
At least on my laptop. It has the normal three jacks, but I only just now saw that one was not the "line in", but an "SPDIF Out". Doesn't affect me either way, since I don't use either, but that may be behind some of the displacement. My drivers could probably change it around, though.
Considering the number of webpages that seem full of Lady Gaga's latest outrageous outfit, her sexuality and so on, I'd say it's virtually certain that many people out there really *do* want to see Lady Gaga go naked.....
I need a wheelchair van for my son. Help me get the word out. https://www.gofundme.com/wheelchair-van-for-jj
There is no conspiracy. Most people don't need line-ins on a laptop. Either:
1. Find a larger laptop that has the jacks
2. Purchase an external sound device (i.e. USB)
3. Use a desktop
Evolution: love it or leave it
I don't know, I just went to a party with a lot of young adults and out of 20 people, me and my brother were the only ones who knew how to play the guitar, and I'm not talking expert level, I'm talking about just playing anything. Maybe those stats are normal, but they seem ridiculously low for an instrument that is so easy to pick up and learn. My evidence is anecdotal but with the continual closing of public music programs, it just seems to me that people just aren't as interested in playing instruments anymore. Or maybe this has always been said and now it is just a product of the times as instruments become virtualized.
I've yet to buy a computer with fewer than 3 jacks (out, line in, mic in generally alternatively selectable as out1, out2, out3 for surround). But if you really don't have a line in, use the Mic jack and uncheck the "Microphone Boost" option. The +20dB boost is the difference between mic level and line level.
Well, you know, there are still a couple of people around that play musical instruments (you know, those expensive things you don't have to plug in)
I most certainly do plug in my electric guitar, as does every other electric guitarist on the planet.
I'm not sure how instrument playing compares to a few decades ago, but centuries ago, only rich people played musical instruments as a hobby. With all the "Guitar Center" stores that have popped up, I think instrument playing is actually quite a bit higher now than it was in the past. It may have fallen a bit since the 50s, however, as it seemed that people back then had a bit more disposable income, and more time and interest in DIY stuff since they didn't have 500 channels of crap to watch.
I hear you! For musicians, as much as I hate to say it, Microsoft is a better environment than Linux as the Linux music software is simply not at all easy to use. You got me thinking a bit and I wonder if I plug the earphone jack right into the Yamaha silent brass unit and to the microphone jack on my PC if I can listen to it through my sound system and record it to hard drive as well.
I would love to have software that can capture sound in either base or treble clef, convert it to sheet music in the clef of choice and print it out in a full size format. I want to do that with one or two clicks on one program.
Do you want Miley Cyrus to starve, and Lady Gaga to go naked?
To that second one, maybe? Will there be pictures of it and can the internet have them will be the answer.
Anything can be found funny, from a certain point of view.
Most Intel HDA codecs just treat all jacks the same, the only difference is the settings. If you want to play around, grab HDA Analyzer and tweak things to your heart's consent. For example, on my laptop (3 jacks), I can output 5.1 audio, or output 4.0 plus get one mic, or 4.0 plus one input, or output stereo cloned through two jacks (great for listening with a friend), or even make all jacks inputs, route them to the three stereo ADCs, and capture 5.1 analog audio. In fact, as far as I can tell, the only "special" jack is the headphones jack, which appears to go through some sort of extra amp to boost it as an output (more than the codec chip is documented to do, though strangely it still works as an input; it might just be another case of Realtek failing at documentation). Other than that, each jack has "in" and "out" options, a headphone boost option (this is the standard one built-in to the codec), a set of mic preamp settings, and a mic vref setting.
In other words, you just need the right software to do whatever you want with your audio jacks these days. Crappy drivers (both on Linux and Windows) will usually severely limit you, compared to the capabilities of the hardware. At least under Linux, you can always use HDA Analyzer to poke the real hardware settings (on Windows, you're probably SOL).
woosh...
Mod parent up. That's the real reason why the inputs are disappearing from laptops. If you're trying to record something of any quality, the audio hardware built into computers doesn't even begin to cut it. The latency alone will make you want to throw your machine across the room. So:
Either way, the audio input jack sits there unused.
Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.
Ironically, if you wanted to record the sound from an acoustic instrument, you would use a microphone and the mic-in socket.
Only if you hate your ears and believe they should be punished.
Blank until
Not if you want any quality at all. Have you heard the noise levels on those pres? At least the line level inputs are usable (albeit not great) with an external preamplifier, but the mic inputs? They're basically for cheap $5 headsets so that people can use them for A/V chatting....
Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.
Where will I plug in my high-fidelity stereo aux?
Then you need a USB turntable:
http://www.usbturntables.net/
Many decent ones available in the $100 US - $200 US range.
Sig this!
You need to adjust and monitor audio levels while recording; clipping is the audio equivalent of blowing out highlights in photography. You may need to manually turn off the mic preamp ("Microphone Boost" on some sound cards) and then adjust the gain controls.
The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
I wouldn't consider them unless they have braided leads. ;)
The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
I'm a DJ, so I've got lots of various audio gear lying around. I've got a Numark mixer with USB out/in, an M-Audio MobilePRE USB, an M-Audio Connectiv, a Stanton ScratchAmp, a Creative X-Fi Notebook Expresscard, and an old Creative Extigy...and EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM sounds orders of magnitude better than the integrated audio chipset in my laptop when it comes to recording audio. While I agree with some of the other posters that many laptops these days have ports that pull double duty based on software, if you're looking for any sort of fidelity to your audio, you're going to want an external solution anyway.
Of all of the laptops I've used, the best noise floor I've ever gotten was -35db. there's this hiss that's present in every single one of the recordings I've made. In some recordings that have a very low dynamic range and are recorded at around -0.5db with a decent amount of loudness, the hiss is somewhat hidden and I can get away with it. In recordings with ANY amount of dynamic range at all, the hiss is audible and drives me up a wall. If you've ever heard the audio from a $200 handheld camcorder, you'll know what i'm talking about. On the other hand, the worst offender on the list above is the Numark mixer. My guess is that it is largely based on the fact that it has an integrated power transformer, unlike the rest of the list there. Even at that, the worst noise floor I've ever gotten from that mixer is -70db. You'd have to crank your stereo to about 8.5 to hear the hiss out of that thing. The MobilePRE USB is probably the best, with a floor of around -90db. You can crank your stereo to 11 and you'll hear hiss from your amp before you hear hiss from its recordings. Finally, the higher end stuff here (MobilePRE, Connectiv, Numark Mixer) all have inputs that inherently provide a better signal (XLR and/or RCA) than an 1/8" cable. Simultaneously, if you're recording from most sources other than an iPod, you'll need an adapter to make it fit an 1/8" jack anyway.
I've never seen a wire-wound resistor above 500 ohms, so you'd have to be nuts to try that. :-)
Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.
Either way, it's still less sick than the ones who want to see Lady Gaga starve and...
Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.
You would use a condenser mic with a real preamp.
The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
My Toshiba satellite only has a mic input, but when it senses that you have plugged something in, it pops up a dialog to ask whether you have plugged in a microphone or a line level audio source, and then configures the levels appropriately.
Yours may be similar. Try plugging into the mic input and see what results you get. If it doesn't work, you'll get horribly distorted audio. In that case, you'll need a USB audio adaptor.
If my call is important, why am I talking to a recording?
Please. http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/Transit.html On order, will review and repost. But, please. There are plenty of USB and FireWire (IEEE1394) devices that have -6 dB line in jacks; from 1/8" stereo to multi-input XLR, 24-bit/96kHz no less!
Oh I definitely agree with that premise, to me it just seems like there was a lot of interest in the 50s-70s and it has been slowly tapering off.
Macs are different.
They only have line-in, no microphone in.
Don't forget the Monster mouse cable for when you're editing.
I know that it's an age-old rule of correcting others that one makes a mistake of the same nature in the corrective statement (I'm likely to suffer a few), but those phone jacks that you list (typically called TS for tip-sleeve when mono or TRS for tip-ring-sleeve when stereo or balanced mono) are most commonly sized in 1/4", 3.5mm, and 2.5mm. 1/2" would be awesome, but I've never seen one.
Starting to think the OP didn't use google (or set foot in a Microcenter/Fry's/BestBuy in the last 5 years). There's a million sub-$100 USB line-level devices out there that will do the trick nicely. And now that I am done being a jerk, I'll say I am a fan of m-audio stuff for casual recording, but any of those sub-$100 doodads should be about the same level of quality, and if you're careful and read the packaging, you'll get something that can handle a line level input without distorting. A heck of a lot easier than keeping a lame old PC just b/c it has an input jack.
Do you want Miley Cyrus to starve, and Lady Gaga to go naked?
Yes and yes.
Most laptop's "mic in" port is actually stereo. The only issue is, a real line-in expects a Phantom, while the mic-in doesn't. You can do one of two things:
a) Buy a phantom remover, or make your own. They are very cheap, and you can even make one in 10 minutes with only basic soldering skills Google for it.
b) If it's something quick, and quality isn't a major issue, you can try setting the gain for that port really down and recording that way. It works fine most of the time.
Stop looking for USB devices with a line-in. I've already looked, there are none.
WTF am I doing replying to an AC at 5 A.M on a Friday night?
All my 5 cent transistors are solid gold.
Ah yes, but silver is so much better.
Hard to beat this: http://www.vintageking.com/Prism-Sound-Orpheus?sc=18&category=388
There are tons of sound input devices marketed for music recording, and pretty much every price point you'd care to hit. The Prism is pretty top-of-the-line, but I'm sure there is something that would fit your needs if you just want to back up LPs here:
http://www.sweetwater.com/c695--USB_Audio_Interfaces
I've looked around for USB sound cards that include a line-in jack, but I haven't been too impressed by the selection.
It's one of the most saturated segments of audio gear: Sweetwater has 119 models. For audio stuff it's frequently a good call to buy a "professional" product; the consumer stuff is designed with the - mostly correct - assumption that people don't care about audio quality.
... also, I can kill you with my brain.
My inspiron 1520 has a mic/line in port. can be either one. I think its more of a space issue. Anyway they havent been gotten rid of. Just combined with the mic port
"[A]ll of the four laptops I've bought since then have omitted a line-in jack."
[Jamie Hyneman]Well there's your problem[/Jamie]
Of course laptops have started leaving out the line in jack. This is because the input gain on a mic-in can be brought down to a line in level, and as a previous poster mentioned, is already stereo. Anyone serious enough to need a line in will most likely be using a PCI Express card, or at the worst an on board 5.1 audio chip (which will almost always include at least one plug that can be used for line in). The extra complexity to include a line in on a laptop simply isn't worth it for most manufacturers. For much less than $1000, you can get a brand new computer with a decent sound card to do what you want. Suck it up if it means that much to you.
There are a ton of USB, Firewire and PCI audio interfaces on the market that do what you ask. You just have to move a little bit beyond consumer electronics stores such as BestBuy:
Because it is cost, and it is complexity, and every port and part you can drop saves money. Or should we still have parallel ports and serial ports on our computers? How many IDE ports and floppy ports would you consider appropriate? Would you like two ISA slots, or is one enough?
At some point, you have to remove things that nobody uses. I'm going to wager that, effectively, nobody uses the line-in port - I have seven computers in my apartment and never once, in the last five years, have I used the line-in port.
I really don't think that $50 for an adapter that you will be able to use right up until USB is obsolete (which is a long, long ways off, if ever) is too high a cost compared to literally thousands of people getting another hunk of plastic and metal that they will never, ever touch.
Breaking Into the Industry - A development log about starting a game studio.
http://www.griffintechnology.com/products/imic
I Think Yes, USB OTG Will Replace Completely...:)
That's all well and good, but the mic inputs on a sound card or laptop won't accept line level input without the signal being attenuated to mic levels. They're designed for a normal moving coil or condenser mic input and that's all.
I'm not sure what a high-output pro audio mic has to do with this discussion. Just because one particular mic can produce high amplitude signals does not mean that a normal sound card mic input will accept them. Pro audio equipment that can accept a +8dBV input has little relevance to a sound card or laptop mic input which is designed for a cheap consumer grade microphone that works at a much lower level like -68dBV.
The simple fact of the matter is that the engineers who design the inexpensive audio hardware used in PCs expect the microphone input to be used to connect a microphone and not much else. If you want to connect something else, then you have to convert the signal level to the acceptable range for the input.
Putting moderation advice in your
It's admirable that you are so specific and resolute in your statement. It's too bad that your statement is demonstrably incorrect. All Macbook and Macbook Pro models, except for the Macbook Air, have analog line-in jacks. the 15" and 17" Macbook Pros have a dedicated line in jack. The Macbook and the 13" Macbook Pro both use a single 1/8" jack for either analog out, digital out, or analog line in, depending on how that port is configured in the system preferences.
Microphone and line-in jacks are definitely under-appreciated these days. Of course, less people need line-in jacks than used to, but microphone jacks are vital to online gaming. All the same, they could make them more robust. A couple years ago, I built two nearly-identical new computers, one for me, and one for my father.
A couple months later, he wanted to hook up the microphone that came with the motherboard so he could use VOIP, I talked him through it, and it wasn't working... Finally, I took the microphone and plugged it into my computer...suddenly my microphone jack didn't work anymore... I still don't know what was wrong with the mic (It was the same exact one I had already had plugged into my motherboard) but it fried the mic ports on both motherboards. I've recently taken to using my studio mic and mixer setup through a USB audio device for playing Left4Dead2 online with friends.... The sad irony of using a multi-hundred dollar audio rig to communicate things like "SHIT, SHIT, SHIT! KILL THIS FUCKING THING!!!" is palpable.
The other day, I took part in an online drawing seminar featuring Dave Gibbons... I wanted to record it (Something I wish I had done with the last webinar I attended) so I set up Camtasia Studio, only to find out that if I want to record system sounds, I need to use the line-in... (Nevermind the fact that that is STUPID.) So I took the USB line-in box (A Behringer U-CONTROL, similar to the U-PHONO that someone linked to earlier, but for interfacing a PC with a mixing board) and I literally took a cable and plugged the box's line-out into the line-in. Why is that even necessary? :
Anyway, I digress. I guess what I'm trying to say is, necessary or not, going extinct or not, I think they're being undermined by various issues and sometimes external devices are your only option, as sad as that may be.
Friend: "The NIC is misconfigured..." Me: "No prob, I'll just telnet in and fix it." *Silence*
Do you want Miley Cyrus to starve, and Lady Gaga to go naked?
So hard to choose. Can I have both?
I'm pretty certain that it'll still have a mic port. This will double as a line-in in a pinch. Just turn down the recording source as mics produce a lot lower level than a line-in.
I helped a tech-savvy friend with this. He asked how I knew that the signaling was compatible. Lulz were had.
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Or should we still have parallel ports and serial ports on our computers?
Yes. If I'm paying $100 for the motherboard, I can pay $105 for an identical one which has at least one serial and parallel ports.
Parallel ports are great for connecting various devices to a PC - lights, relays etc. You can't do that with USB without some special chips and special drivers.
How many IDE ports and floppy ports would you consider appropriate?
2xIDE, 1xFloppy
Ok, now the motherboard costs $107, whatever.
Would you like two ISA slots, or is one enough?
Instead of ISA slots, how about two PCIe slots and 5 PCI slots, instead of 2xPCIe, 3xPCI and 2x empty space?
Small PCIe slots (1x and such) do not have advantages over regular PCI 66MHz or even 33MHz slots and most devices do not need the speed anyway (TV capture cards, sound cards, serial/parallel port cards, USB controllers etc).
The only devices that need more than 133MB/s are gigabit network cards and IDE/SATA/SCSI/SAS controllers and most motherboards come with an integrated gigabit NIC and quite a few SATA ports (AFAIK SATA can also use hubs to connect more than one drive to one port).
What regular PCI has the advantage in is compatibility. Most of old devices are still good and when I am upgrading, I, for example, do not need to buy a new sound card, because the old one is usually enough, the same with TV input cards and even NICs and hard drive controllers.
I don't think the line in jack is going to go extinct anytime soon. My current car, and a previous one, both had line-ins, and it was a major factor in the purchase of those vehicles. For the longest time, it was the only way to hook up an iPod or CD player (if the car didn't have one) or other things; I believe the satellite radios did it for awhile too, right?
Nowadays you can get a new car with an option to be "iPod compatible", but even if it works, it only works with iPods. Also, its an expensive option. A male-to-male line-in cable costs as much as $15 if you can't find a cheap one, but thats the upper limit. The options on new vehicles can add hundreds or thousands. Plus, the line-in "just works".
I don't know about you, but I really see no reason I should have paid an extra $100 over the last few years for ports that I will never, ever use. I mean, what about PS2 keyboard and mouse ports? What about so-called "standard" keyboard ports? I bet you could add SCSI to a modern computer pretty cheaply.
I mean, basically, your cutoff point is "well I might use it at some point in the future". Apparently a serial port is useful to everyone (it's not) while an ISA port is useless to everyone (it's not). As mentioned, the vast majority of people will use, *at most*, one PCIe slot for a flashy graphics card, an onboard Ethernet port, onboard audio out, and USB. And most people will honestly just rely on the onboard video.
That's it. That's all you need for a modern computer. Anything more is a waste of money for most users.
(also I have no idea how you can use modern sound cards, they're all absolute junk and I haven't had one that worked properly for the last five years, my "sound card" is - natch - connected over USB :P)
Breaking Into the Industry - A development log about starting a game studio.
The best thing is that those examples of yours, IDE, floppy, and ISA are all absolutely outdated and replaced by a different interface, not just dropped altogether. The real equivalent in this scenario would be if they dropped analog line in in favor of a optical line in, but you obviously don't see what happened to IDE, floppy drives, and ISA ports. They were all superseded by newer technologies, not dropped altogether as a concept.
I mean, what about PS2 keyboard and mouse ports?
My 8 port KVM switch is PS/2. I suppose I could use USB, but all of my desktop PCs have PS/2 ports anyway. The DIN5 keyboard port has the same signals as PS/2 port.
I bet you could add SCSI to a modern computer pretty cheaply.
PCI SCSI cards are quite cheap, I don't know about PCIe SCSI cards though.
Apparently a serial port is useful to everyone (it's not) while an ISA port is useless to everyone (it's not).
Agreed. Actually, now that I think about it, an ISA slot would also be useful, since there are no adaptors to connect the ISA card to a newer slot.
As mentioned, the vast majority of people will use, *at most*, one PCIe slot for a flashy graphics card, an onboard Ethernet port, onboard audio out, and USB.
A PCIe x16 slot can also be used for a x1 card, but the reverse is not true. So, 2x PCIe x16 slots. 1 for the video card and another one for a RAID controller, PCIe SSD or another video card.
And most people will honestly just rely on the onboard video.
Those people probably will buy a motherboard without PCIe slots or even a mATX board with one or two PCI slots.
(also I have no idea how you can use modern sound cards, they're all absolute junk and I haven't had one that worked properly for the last five years, my "sound card" is - natch - connected over USB :P)
I now have Creative X-Fi XtremeMusic. It works almost OK, that is the output is good enough for me, but the combination microphone/line-in jack has a problem, it outputs the +5V in both modes, which makes one channel more noisy, lowers its impedance and can cause problems for other devices. I now use two 2uF coupling capacitors to block the DC and for now can live with the increased noise and mismatched impedances. It is not a big enough problem for me to make me buy a new soundcard (which will have a separate line-in jack and probably will be better, but expensive).
I have a USB soundcard that I use with my laptop (Creative X-Fi Surround 5.1) and it is OK, except that if I want to play line in to line out it has a lot of latency and consumes ~50% CPU.
After +200 replies, my post will probably be redundant, I will add my vote to the probably many coming for getting a budget pro-audio card. M-Audio, from the Audiophile to some other Firewire/USB products they have should do... if you are really on a budget, try Behringer... word to the wise, ***performance*** wise, they cannot be beat for the price; however, they are ***built*** kind of cheaply...
Well, you know, there are still a couple of people around that play musical instruments (you know, those expensive things you don't have to plug in)
The best ones still require you to. And they go up to eleven!
Mind you, I'm yet to see a laptop with a class-A set of tubes, either. And no, steampunk fans, gluing some non functioning brasswork and a couple of tubes doesn't make anything other than an ugly mess.
There is also a receiver, connected to the computer. This would get you near-perfect replication in some cases I think. I could be wrong.
I have the same requirement, as I want to listen to music all the time, and I have all my music on my laptop. My laptop is connected to my desktop to an Asus PCIE sound card, and just recently, I grabbed an HDMI 7.1 receiver.
The receiver has a plethora of sources available to it, and it is a reasonably intelligent device. It is more reliable than ATI's sound-over-HDMI drivers, which suck. But, I could also tell you that Sarah Palin is an idiot, or that the sky is blue, or that grass is really a pretty cool thing.
The receiver itself has two options available to it for special recording, some sort of crazy audiophile mumbo jumbo.
Additionally, most motherboards these days also have auto-sense jacks. You can force the motherboard to use any jack as anything, line in, left/right out, mic, etc.
Guns don't kill people, "with glowing hearts" kills people.
for two reasons
1. (as another poster said) - you're attenuating and then amplifying a signal: noise
2. LPs are recorded with the high frequencies boosted, and this is then attenuated in a dedicated circuit within the receiver. By skipping this, you're going to end up with tinny recordings (did I mention noise?).
Seriously, unless you've got a nice sound interface, don't bother recording LPs, cassettes, etc - the results won't be worth it. Cetainly that USB thing from thinkgeek (linked earlier) won't produce good recordings. Unless it's a bootleg or something... I've got a nice multitrack firewire interface, and even then I'd only think about recording LPs, cassettes, etc if I had a really nice deck..
I use this thing, it works well for recording electric guitar http://accessories.musiciansfriend.com/product/-LightSnake-GuitarKeyboard-USB-10ft-Cable?sku=332600
If you're trying to record something of any quality, the audio hardware built into computers doesn't even begin to cut it. The latency alone will make you want to throw your machine across the room.
WTF
Why if you are recording something do you care about latency? Who cares if the computer lags behind you by a few seconds. The submitter wants to rip a record, he's not going to care if the audio being written to the hard disk is two seconds delayed to the position of the needle, he's probably sitting outside having a cup of tea anyway.
Latency ONLY matters if you are synchronising the signal to something else. For example if you want to use your computer to take the signal apply an effect and output it on top of the original note. Another common example is DJs using records to control sound output, the latency between moving the record and the output changing is important. Even then, the latency in the sound hardware is negligent compared to the software sound stack and the controlling program.
What do you mean you're not impressed by the selection of USB sound cards? You've got everything from basic £15 5.1 with mic and line in which are on par with motherboard's onboard sound (I use one on my laptop) to 10 input 24-bit 96kHz professional audio interfaces like the Edirol UA-101.
Also, do the laptops not have a mic socket? you can usually turn mic gain on and off in the sound control panel which essentially turns it into a line-in socket anyway.
To whoever marked my post off topic Suggesting a USB turntable is not off topic, and a dozen others have suggested the same thing. The final line of his post reads "or are there better thinking-outside-the-box alternatives available?" Yes there are and one is a USB Turntable, and as he is clearly an Australian so I also pointed him to where he can get one easily.
musical instruments (you know, those expensive things you don't have to plug in)
Pffft! I plug my harmonica into the wall.
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- - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
There's a problem with the design of the RCA connectors... The signal path is connected before the ground.
Long answer: You will ALWAYS have (even low-end) musician sound cards with analog inputs. Since the very point of those sound cards is, to have really good A/D converters. (Often lots of them, and pretty expensive ones too.)
Reality still is analog. Speakers are, Microphones are. And will always be, as long as they exist in reality. :) /me still loves his trusty old DMX 6fire 24/96. :) (I also have a Audigy and a onboard one. And when I switch back and forth, both sound like totally distorted crap.)
And the only difference from a microphone jack and a line-in jack is the amplification. Which is configurable to whatever you like on any serious sound card anyway.
Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
Last time I checked, when there's only one "in", you can tell the sound mixer if it's a "line" or "mic" input. Try these steps (in Windows XP, on my Dell D620):
1. Double-click the speaker icon in your task bar. The Mixer application (with multiple volume levels) should open.
2. Click on Options, then Properties. The Properties window should appear.
3. Select "Adjust volume for" "Recording".
4. Click OK. The mixer now morphed into the "in" controls.
5. Under "Line In", click on [ ] Select. Your "in" should magically become a line-in input.
6. Enjoy!
http://dilbert.com/2010-12-13
The parent was responding to a post about recording musical instruments.
Brain surgery - it's not rocket science!
Won't someone think of the children?! Who will there be to consume consume consume, if they're little fingers are busy making awful sounds of their own?
And by the way, yes and yes.
Try my nuts to your fist style!
An E-Mu or Tascam USB interface is about $150 and is 24-bit and works with Mac or PC. A MacBook Pro or iMac not only has a line-in, it's 24-bit and is both analog and digital optical. iPods and iPhones have line-ins on the dock connector, you just need the right cable. Probably iPad is the same.
Generally speaking, pro audio is FireWire-based.
If recording LP, make sure you have the right preamplifier. LP doesn't give out a line level signal.
How else am I going to bug my bosses office?
My ism, it's full of beliefs.
Pretty much every motherboard I've bought in the past ~5 years has had a line in jack. Before you complain that the fidelity of onboard audio sucks, let me point out that it has gotten a lot better lately (at least on reputable brands like Asus). While onboard may still not be up to true high fidelity standards, it is "good enough" for the majority of non-professional use cases.
Autodetection is the scary part. If the computer can detect whether the port should be an input, or an output, or whether it should be stereo or not, how long before it can detect whether there is a DRM signal embedded in the input and shut it down? Autodetection is the first step in closing the analog hole.
When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
Macbooks do not have longer lifespans than other notebooks.
Because it costs money for the socket, and to pay someone to wire the socket to the board. Means one less hole in the case, too. It may well persist in desktop machines, where its cost is truly negligible, because it's part of the back-panel of sockets, but on a laptop the cost of providing is more significant, so we'll probably see it vanish. I won't miss it.
As I said, it is only significant on lower end models. On higher end models where everything is about 'media' and you are already paying $1000+, taking off a 10c solution with no suitable alternative is just asking for annoyed customers. As for using something such as a Bluetooth microphone, a friend of mine who works with professional audio confirms that, it is a poor replacement.
Jumpstart the tartan drive.
try zzounds.com or guitar center for usb or firewire connected audio i/o devices... look in the category "computer recording"
Over the past ten years the price of a decent machine went from a few thousand dollars to a few hundred dollars. Those line-in jacks aren't cheap, so when looking for an easy way to cut costs they're going to drop the stuff 99.9% of the population doesn't need.
I found a need for a line-in and went searching. Came across the m-audio fast track. It costs $99 and comes with the stripped down pro-tools m-powered essentials, which is good enough unless you're doing something that needs more than like 16 tracks. The hardware is required for pro-tools to run, but the hardware will work with any other audio software that doesn't tie the software to the hardware, i.e. every other DAW software on the market. The nice thing is that they have it at Best Buy, so you can even get it locally for the immediate impulse buy. There are other options in the avid family, such as the digidesign mbox2 devices that are a little more expensive, but come with pro-tools le, which is a step up from m-powered. For about $2000 to $2500 you can get one of the 003 devices. Then there's the entire universe of non-pro-tools-oriented stuff which costs less and probably has better audio quality but isn't nearly as fun or well integrated.
Sweetwater, Guitar Center and your local musical instrument and pro-audio store are your best friends. Go there and talk to someone. I had a problem where I was sure a magical $499.95 box was the right move. The sound guy at the local Guitar Center set me straight with the $8 solution. Really, go talk to an audio geek. They can teach you more in a minute hands-on than Ask Slashdot ever could, even if it were loaded with real audio geeks.
note the difference: Audio geeks know what they're talking about because they deal with professional audio equipment and would rather be called engineers or salesmen or something. Audiophiles masturbate to $800 electron-spin directionally optimized bullshit cables. Do not confuse the two. The pro will tell you your $5000 idea is dumb and all you really need is a $12 device and won't let you buy the $5000 device, even though they're the salesguy and make a commission. An audiophile doesn't do audio for a living, has too much money on their hands, and is now masturbating to the newly announced $3100 replacement for their $800 electron-spin directionally optimized bullshit cables.
The immaturity of people on this site never ceases to amaze me. My post was making a very valid point that is topical to the discussion.
It has nothing to do with the line in jack. It has to do with the desire to eliminate all jacks except USB/FireWire. Simplifies manufacturing and design costs, maybe? But, lots have disappeared; parallel, serial, keyboard, etc. All replaced with one do-everything digital jack. As others have pointed out, an audio/USB is a $10 purchase and up, depending on your needs.
Sleep is for the Weak