Slashdot Mirror
Sergey Brin On Google and China
yuhong writes "The NY Times has an interview with Sergey Brin on Google and China. A few quotes from it: 'Mr. Brin lived in the Soviet Union until he was nearly 6 years old, and he said the experience of living under a totalitarian system that censored political speech influenced his thinking — and Google's policy. "It has definitely shaped my views, and some of my company's views," he said.' Yes, business is personal, especially these days."
The atmosphere of fear is probably plainly apparent even to a six-years-old. The understanding of the reasons for that comes later.
I get the feeling this whole showdown is a Larry and Sergey thing. And that Eric Schmidt is against it, and probably the rest of the board is as well. They would rather be pusillanimous like John Chambers and just make as much money off China as possible, even if it means aid and abet totalitarianism and not standing for anything except quarterly share price (again: see John Chambers).
I applaud refusing to censor information on the internet, this is a line in the sand they have drawn, to perhaps 'do no evil' and in Slashdot spirit we should all be behind it....
Why did Google initially agree to censor search results in the first place if this was their philosophy? I am certain they have made money in China, they would not have gone there for altruistic purposes of giving China good search results and web based email if there was not profit in it. Sure they have the philosophy "Don't Be Evil" but they got in bed with China to do business there. Only after the Aurora Exploit did they finally say enough is enough. Taking an anti-censorship stance only AFTER the Aurora attacks makes it seem retaliatory to me. They got a bruised eye from the neighborhood bully and then after playing along fine for quite some time decided they wanted to pick up their ball and go home. I would have been more impressed if Google uncensored their search results from the beginning instead of reacting to overt actions from China to their bottom line.
There are two kinds of fool. One says, This is old, and therefore good. And one says, This is new, and therefore better.
Good on Sergey & Google. To those clods who will joke about how a six year old can be influenced let me just say I remember when the Berlin Wall was erected. I was six years old and although I don't remember the political details I vividly recall seeing a front page photo in the Detroit News that showed what Woodward Avenue (the main street in downtown Detroit) would look like if the Wall had been built right down the center. It scared the crap out of me then even without knowing why and it remains an image that has stayed with me. Of *course* Sergey was affected.
You obviously haven't lived in a totalitarian country. My girlfriend is from a Soviet-Era-communist country. She was very young when the communist regime was repelled but she has distinctive memories of the era, how you could only get state television channel, how going abroad was almost impossible, how it was impossible to get foreign made goods, how the country was everything and criticizing the country was frowned upon. In addition, please remember that Antisemitism in Soviet Union was a de-jure policy after WW2. Also remember, that Sergey Brin's parents were academics, which made them an active target of the government. If you live not under a fear of the government but also under the fear of a government openly hostile to your community and your parents are marked people, it makes a pretty damn good impact on your childhood. In addition, do you think as a child his parents would've never talked about their life in Soviet Union ? These are the experiences that shape your thinking. Just because he was young doesn't mean he doesn't know how it was.
Ha!
Ha? At 6 I was already politically influenced during the Nicaraguan civil war of the 60's and 70's. Totalitarian systems, specially under Communism and Nazism knew the power of political indoctrination of kindergarten kids and first graders.
Another concrete example from my country was after the Sandinista take-over. A common tactic for politically-blessed kindergarten/first grade teachers of the time was to do the following every so often at the start of a class:
Teacher: Ok kids, do you believe in God?
Kids: Yeaahhhh!
Teacher: Do you want candy?
Kids: Yeaaaah!
Teacher: Why don't we pray God for a candy?
Kids would close eyes and pray for a candy
Teacher: Did God give you candy?
Kids: No.
Teacher: Why don't you ask me for candy?
Kids: Teacher, can we have candy????
At that point, the so-called teacher would proceed to give candy followed by an explanation that God was the creation of the oppressive classes, and how the revolution takes care of the proletariat, that they should report their parents if they were counter revolutionaries, that counter revolutionary are dogs and not people (yeah, they'd teach that to 5-6 year old kids), that the Americans were evil and that they would come to kill you if you don't help the revolution (at this point kids have their eyes open wide and you have to ask yourself what kind of animal would say such things to a little kid)... and shit like that... every fucking day of class...
Say "ha" as you please. You will neither understand the impact these things can have on 5-6 year old kids nor appreciate their ability to capture, understand and reason under such repressive regimes if you have never experienced it.
As someone who lived in Soviet Union until it's collapse in 92 (I was 25) I can tell you that fear was not a fact of everyday life. Generally you didn't feel much more under control than in US. You couldn't say certain negative things about Party and government in public, but in private conversations everything was discussed freely. It is the same as in states- try to voice politically incorrect opinions about race in your place of work, and you will see how "freedom of speech" will protect you. We have more freedom in US as compared to USSR or China, but don't overestimate it.
For a children it is about living in fear, not about politics. You do not understand this because you have always lived in a protected society, and your parents were never in fear for their lives, so they raised you accordingly. It is hard to relate unless you have lived through something similar.
I grew up under a military dictatorship when a kid, and I still remember my parents explaining what a curfew was to me when I was 3 or 4 years old, and me not been able to sleep at night because hearing shooting, bombs going out, and people yelling on the street. To this day, I am afraid of the police and to publicly express my political opinions. I even though 10 times before posting this under my name and not as AC.
Sergei's experience may not have been as bad, but a 5 year old understands fear and censorship, and believe me, once you've been there, you deal with it all your life. Good for him for standing up.
I lived a few hundred meters from the Berlin wall and even before I entered school I had heard of people who had been shot there. My dad was imprisoned for political reasons when I was four. In first grade, I was threatened into entering the Pioniere ideological youth organization.
These events not only made an impression, they are among my most dramatic, and hence vivid, memories from that age. Whoever thinks little kids don't get oppression doesn't have a fucking clue.
blow your mind already
Putting it bluntly, tough shit. Obviously the people running YOUR country don't feel the same way, or there wouldn't BE a McDonalds and Starbucks on every corner. Where do you get off forcing YOUR views on all of YOUR other countrymen?
We do it here in the U.S. There are several small towns that just refuse to issue building permits to Walmart, McDonalds and the like. They want to preserve the "small town feel".
Hell, screw small towns. It is 2010 and Walmart is STILL trying to get permission to build a store in CHICAGO -- the 3rd largest city in the U.S.! Suburbs, yes. City, not yet.
I'm willing to bet your gov't isn't subsidizing McDonalds and American movies, etc. So the simple answer is DON'T SHOP THERE. Capitalism, in its basest form, works wonderfully. If you DON'T SHOP THERE then those stores will LOSE MONEY AND CLOSE. These mega corps close "under-performing" stores all the time.
"Imposed", ha! Help me out. Which country is it that sends in the secret police to put the gun to your head to watch American TV, American movies, buy American brands and eat at American fast-food stores? I'd like to see the tourist brochure.
Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
It sounds like you need to do some more shopping around between subcultures. Maybe it's because I spent a lot of time in college towns or because I grew up in Northern California, but I'm used to seeing two things that contradict your claims.
I am in Berkeley [, you insensitive clod!] That's probably the closest -- and yet way, way outside of what actually would be acceptable.
1) People from radically different cultures who moved to the United States and feel they're more able to practice their own culture here than back in India, China, Indonesia, etc., because in their homeland they were part of an offshoot culture than was frowned upon, while in their new homes that's absolutely welcomed.
Only if their culture is fringe at home, and is still fringe here -- except only at home they are taken seriously, so people don't bother to express direct hostility toward them in US. Those people who believe that they "practice their own culture" in US are deluding themselves -- their lives only exist in context of American society that follows rules and system of values that is specific to US. They can "practice their own culture" as a hobby or (and usually only) as a religious cult that no one cares about -- this is not "culture", this is thin veneer of a culture over their entirely American lives. Yes, that includes how Russian culture "exists" in US -- forgive me, I forgot to bring my knife, thick accent, bottle of vodka and two liters of sweat. I don't want this and would be insulted to reduce my cultural background to such a freak show.
2) People from the United States who hold very different values from the prevailing national/regional/local views, who are quite happy with their freedom to be different. I've also lived places in the U.S. where that's not the case, but usually that's been my experience.
American society is actually very much homogenized. Differences are superficial and mostly based on racial diversity, and racism that keeps people of the same race together, thus forming a "subculture" with no unique values. For example, if you look at Black/African American culture (that formed entirely over the history of US) it's clear that there are plenty of superficial differences but at its core it's exactly the same as culture of, say, white Protestants, except adapted to being discriminated against, and developed in relatively closed communities. For white American, especially one who adopted racial stereotype it looks "different" or even hostile, but most goals, values and ideas are exactly the same. Many other subcultures have the same fundamental nature, even if not based on ethnicity.
What bothers me most, American geek/nerd subculture, that I am supposed to be associated with, is still very close to mainstream, however mainstream treats it with such a ferocious hostility, I can never understand such a situation. For me American society looks like this Star Trek episode -- groups that I can barely recognize as different treat each other as complete opposites of themselves, and they don't realize just how far I am from all of them.
There's a lot of room here for vegans, people who hate television, people who are only interested in Chinese music, people who want to have no friends, people who never want to be alone,
Vegans? Hate television? That's not what a culture is about.
socialists, anarchists, conservatives, libertarians,
There are no "socialists" in US. American "socialist" would be welcome in the second-from-the right party anywhere else in the world -- and it's usually only second from the right because first would be basically Nazi. In USSR Communists wouldn't recognize him as belonging to a related movement. Politics is one of the area where only a very narrow range of opinion is tolerated in serious public discourse. "Libert
Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.