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ISO 9001-Compliant Document Control?

Posted by kdawson on from the where-did-you-put-the-oh-here-it-is dept.

SmoothBreaker writes "Coming into a new company, I have been tasked with sourcing Document Control software to meet ISO 9001 standards. From everything I can find, ISO places no requirements on the software itself, aside from maintaining control of documentation and process. This was discussed eleven years ago. I'd like software that allows intuitive use for our less savvy users, and in a perfect world, graphical access to previous revisions of a document. I've used Microsoft's SharePoint, which the higher-ups like simply because it's Microsoft, but thankfully they trust their Tech Department to find the cream of the crop. What experience do you have with this kind of software, what would you recommend using, and what should I avoid?"

19 of 152 comments (clear)

  1. KT by GigsVT · · Score: 4, Interesting

    You might look into KnowledgeTree. It's open source.

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    1. Re:KT by solevita · · Score: 4, Informative

      I clicked reply to say that very thing. We use KT here at work, is very nice, and we're not the only ones. We'd also looked at Alfresco in the past, but KT won on a number of factors, including ease of use and installation.

  2. Alfresco by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    You might try checking out Alfresco which is an open-source Java based content management system with an excellent document module. In addition to ISO, it also meets many of the FDA requirements for medical product documentation. The link is http://www.alfresco.com

  3. I'm going to get flamed all to hell for this... by jockeys · · Score: 4, Informative

    but I'm actually a fan of Sharepoint. Have used it for years and never found it lacking for documentation management in my line of work (engineering software development field). The price is an issue for some, but it requires very little maintenance and is fairly intuitive in it's workings, even to a newer user. Most of our co-ops figure out how to use it with little or no instruction, and our senior developers (myself included) haven't complained about lack of features or expressed frustration with not being able to get something done.

    just my 2 cents.

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    In Soviet Russia jokes are formulaic and decidedly non-humorous.
    1. Re:I'm going to get flamed all to hell for this... by uberjack · · Score: 4, Informative

      My problem with Sharepoint is that doesn't work equally well on non-IE browsers. For example, text formatting is completely unavailable unless you're running IE.

    2. Re:I'm going to get flamed all to hell for this... by jockeys · · Score: 4, Insightful

      that's a valid concern, and a good reason to consider another product.

      ten minutes in, and I'm already modded down for saying I've been satisfied with a MS product... typical /.

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      In Soviet Russia jokes are formulaic and decidedly non-humorous.
    3. Re:I'm going to get flamed all to hell for this... by b4dc0d3r · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I had XP corporate image, and Sharepoint would crash if I tried any of the AJAX style operations. I could right-click and save, or click directly, but using the arrows and checking out crashed every time.

      IE developer toolbar and Fiddler installed, I uninstalled both and it kept crashing, then the lease came up on my box and I got a shiny new Vista. Installed both and some other stuff and never had a problem. But it keeps worrying me that IE with Microsoft-only additions had problems with Microsoft's website, manipulating Microsoft's document types.

      The problem I believe is the WEBDAV type interaction. When you authenticate, IE lets you do stuff. Then you open the file, and normal browsers would download the file and ShellExecute() to open it (or maintain their own list, but whatever). IE sends the URL to the application (if it's Office type), which has to re-authenticate since it doesn't share IE's session. That way the Office app can check in/out instead of just opening a local copy.

      To tell the difference, you can obviously see the normal IE download dialog if it's downloading and opening, otherwise you get the Office dialog that has "Opening [filename..." and only has a cancel button.

      I just used FireFox, and tried to avoid checking things in/out. It's all intertwined - impossible to fix. Probably lots of code duplication as well.

    4. Re:I'm going to get flamed all to hell for this... by camperdave · · Score: 3, Insightful

      They care that it works with the corporate standard which is IE.

      They care that it works with the corporate standard which is IE6.

      Fixed that for you. Sigh! What a sad world we live in.

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      When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
    5. Re:I'm going to get flamed all to hell for this... by moosesocks · · Score: 3, Informative

      1) Sharepoint works in FireFox. Quite well in fact.

      2) If you want to use some of the IE-only features, just install this extension, and add Sharepoint to your IE-only whitelist, and you can use the "IE-only" features from within Firefox.

      3) Microsoft's official recommendation for Web UIs is now to use JQuery (and they're also contributing code to the project!). Assuming they eat their own dog food, Microsoft webapps should start being a lot more friendly toward non-IE browsers.

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      -- If you try to fail and succeed, which have you done? - Uli's moose
  4. Easy by ilikejam · · Score: 3, Funny

    # chattr -R +a /home

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    C-x C-s C-x k
  5. What ISO 9001 is by autophile · · Score: 3, Informative

    Say what you do, and do what you say. I don't think you need software for that. What my company did was have a central document repository and a documentation standard, and everything boiled down to saying what we did, and doing what we said.

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    Towards the Singularity.
    1. Re:What ISO 9001 is by Bryan3000000 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      He was specifically tasked with "sourcing Document Control software to meet ISO 9001 standards". The only reasonable way that this task can be interpreted is as an assignment to actually source software which will ENFORCE ISO 9001 standards.

    2. Re:What ISO 9001 is by wrook · · Score: 4, Insightful

      But the ISO 9001 standards aren't fixed. Basically you document what you are going to do, show that you've trained your staff to follow the process and show that the staff are following that process. You can easily do 9001 document control standards with a pen and a filing cabinet. Yes, there are some specific requirements: you must define a way to show that the currently accessible document is the most current one, etc. But 9001 doesn't require you do it any specific way.

      In fact, if you simply buy a piece of software and say, "The software enforces the process" a good auditor (hah!) will fail you. The whole point of 9001 is to document a process, train your staff to follow it, and show that you are following it. You can buy a canned process, train your staff in that process, have tools to help you, show that your are following that process. You will pass 9001. But you will have a fucked up process because it almost certainly won't follow your company's natural workflow.

      I suspect this is why the parent suggests that maybe looking for a tool rather than working on the process is a bad idea.

      * About the "hah!" comment: I don't believe there exist good 9001 auditors. Or rather, if they exist, they don't work much. It is in a company's best interest to hire incompetent auditors. That way they pass the audit. I say that having done the job myself once a long time ago :-P

  6. Thing Long Term, Beware of Legacy Costs by Cassini2 · · Score: 3, Informative

    Some of the ISO-9001 knowledge becomes very long-lived. Stick to things that will work for a very long time. It is not uncommon to see ISO, software, CAD, and project documentation files from 25 years ago. Having to support DOS PCs for legacy projects sucks.

    Think about whatever software you use, and make sure it is formed around standards that will persist. For instance, does SharePoint depend on Microsoft Internet Explorer? Is Microsoft Internet Explorer V9 compatible with Internet Explorer V6? Take a look at all the other legacy software inside your organization dependent on Microsoft IE V6. Don't do it again.

    In the end, there is a strong argument for keeping PDF, DOC, and XLS files around, and placing a version control system on them. Some systems, try to integrate the entire quality control system into a document management system, and the results cannot be maintained long-term. One expensive system that I deployed, didn't survive the 24-month rollout process. You need to stick to standards, and keep your options open, both short and long term.

  7. Re:Liability? by Cassini2 · · Score: 3, Informative

    Why did they go for this expensive solution? so that they could should at someone, demand support and sue someone if the shit hits the fan. With OpenSource the only one liable for fuckups

    The problem with that logic is that expensive solutions can be abandoned on a whim. The supplier can make a simple business decision, they can go out of business, or taken over by a competitor. Depending on the contract, is it a term license or a perpetual license? Is the software dependent on other peoples code? With proprietary software, you can be locked out at any moment.

    Additionally, have you ever actually tried to get a software company to pay out on a law suit for defective code? It is almost impossible. Check the disclaimers in the contracts.

  8. Avoid tainted assignments. by dbc · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "what should I avoid?" You should avoid taking on politically dangerous and thankless tasks that make no contribution to the bottom line as your first assignment at a new company. Seriously, the tech issues here are secondary. First, figure out the politics. Next, make sure your second assignment contributes to the company's bottom line. Sorry to sound like a grumpy old fart here, but hey, I'm a grumpy gray-beard that has seen this movie before and I don't like the ending.

  9. Re:SharePoint by RTFA · · Score: 3, Interesting

    That’s exactly my thoughts. And TFA didn’t specify which types of documents? If it’s mainly MS Office documents, SharePoint is probably one of the best solutions. Especially if you are considering upgrading to Office 2010.

    Also what’s the size of your needs? SharePoint is free (WSS, aside of a Windows server 2003 licence) if your needs are small enough (Less than 2gb of data for MSSQL Express (free)).

    I wonder how much time the submitter actually invested in throwing away SharePoint?

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    This comment was written using 100% reused electrons.
  10. Re:You just started here by CarpetShark · · Score: 3, Funny

    Why can't YOU walk over here, you prick? I knew this job wouldn't go well. Fucking asshats. ;)

  11. Re:Nuxeo by batje14 · · Score: 3, Informative

    I looked at the 3 big ones, alfresco, KM and Nuxeo, and like the latter best. For one, their full version == their GPL version. So if you want to do it all yourself, you will get all the features.

    Secondly, I found the interface nice and simple.

    Thirdly, they have this option where you can open a document from your browser, edit it and save it back into the DM system directly. (That requires a plugin for your browser & office). They used to have an openoffice version of that plugin too. Very sweet.