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No Linking To Japanese Newspaper Without Permission

Posted by timothy on from the thank-you-for-visiting dept.

stovicek writes with this excerpt from Ars Technica about the Japanese newspaper Nihon Keizai Shimbun, or Nikkei (English language site, so far apparently unaffected): "Nikkei has taken efforts to preserve its paywall to absurd new levels: anyone wanting to link to the site must submit a formal application. [...] The New York Times, which reported on the new policy on Thursday, notes that the newspaper market in Japan is radically different from that in the US. Although some smaller outlets are experimenting with new ways of reaching readers, most papers require subscriptions to access online content, and the barriers have kept circulation of print editions quite high compared to the US. Nikkei management appears worried that links could provide secret passages to content that should be safely behind the paywall, and this fear has led to the new approval policy."

32 of 134 comments (clear)

  1. Let's write out the pseudocode... by LostCluster · · Score: 2, Interesting

    If (RefererURL is not OurURL) or (ReferURL is Authorized) then {show denialpage;} else {show content;}

    It's their site and they can do it if they want to... paywall nets cash but costs views and ad yen. Let's see where this ends up.

    1. Re:Let's write out the pseudocode... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Where would you add the not? That code is messed up. If you do "is not Authorized", it is still broken as OurUrl = false, Authorized = true would still cause denialpage. And now I assume that if OurUrl is true then Authorized will be true too. Let me suggest:

      If (RefererURL is OurURL) or (RefererUrl is Authorized) then { show content; } else { show denialpage; }

      In this solution we avoid unnecessary negation and I would think this would be clear for all readers. A thing to note about this approach is that this is "deny by default". Alternatively:

      If (RefererURL is not OurURL) and (RefererURL is not Authorized) then { show denialpage; } else { show content };

    2. Re:Let's write out the pseudocode... by JesseMcDonald · · Score: 5, Informative

      There's a bigger bug than that: you can't trust the referrer. It's completely controlled by the browser, not the page the link was on. Users can easily set the referrer to any string they wish, e.g. with the RefControl extension for Firefox, which will happily set it to the address of the current page—or the home page of the site—by default.

      If you really want to know whether the user is authorized to view a page you need to track their session, either with (secure) cookies or (secure) URL parameters. Better yet, use standard Digest authentication and let the browser take care of the credentials. The referrer string has no place in a proper authentication protocol.

      --
      "The state is that great fiction by which everyone tries to live at the expense of everyone else." - Bastiat
    3. Re:Let's write out the pseudocode... by init100 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Better yet, use standard Digest authentication

      There is one downside of Digest authentication compared to Basic authentication over SSL. Since Digest authentication generates a random salt which is hashed together with the password and sent to the server, the server must keep the password in plaintext in its user database. With Basic authentication, the password can be stored as a hash on the server, and with SSL the security issue with Basic authentication goes away.

    4. Re:Let's write out the pseudocode... by nospam007 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "The New York Times, which reported on the new policy on Thursday, notes that.."

      Since the NYT will disappear behind a paywall as well soon, they will be able to sort that out in the VIP room, where none of the unwashed masses will read it.

    5. Re:Let's write out the pseudocode... by ultranova · · Score: 2, Informative

      If (RefererURL is Authorized) then {show content} else { make your site look bad}.

      There is simply no point in hardcoding a special exception rather than handling it all in "is Authorized".

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

    6. Re:Let's write out the pseudocode... by LucidBeast · · Score: 2, Informative

      Not quite. Digest is calculated using hash from concatenation of username realm & passwd.

      request-digest = See below for the definitions for A1 and A2.

      3.2.2.2 A1 If the "algorithm" directive's value is "MD5" or is unspecified, then A1 is:

      A1 = unq(username-value) ":" unq(realm-value) ":" passwd

      So you can store A1 hash and forget the username & password.

      see RFC 2617 for details.

  2. The difference is quality by BadAnalogyGuy · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I remember when I was willing to shell out a few bucks a year for a subscription to the Wall Street Journal, our American business paper. And then Rupert Murdoch bought it and turned it into Pravda with better paper.

    Now, I'm not saying that the Japanese Nikkei is any better (yes, I am), but you have to understand that in Japan there is a strict code of honor that everyone implicitly abides by. This is why there is so little petty crime and violence there compared to the U.S. It's also why people are willing to pay for music rather than download it. The penalty for disobedience and "going your own way" is social ostracization.

    So it makes sense in the Japanese worldview to demand a virtual face-to-face meeting in order to link to information and stories. The linker is a supplicant who must throw himself at the feet of the information "daimyo". To do any less would shame both the supplicant and the lord.

    I'm not saying it's a good thing, but it's how it is over there. Over here, we're free to say stuff like "FIX YOUR FUCKING WEBSITE, YOU IDIOTS! IT'S BEEN BROKEN FOR HOURS!"

    1. Re:The difference is quality by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If there's a strict code of honor that everyone abides by, why does the Yakuza exist?

      Individuals are still individuals even in Japan.

    2. Re:The difference is quality by countertrolling · · Score: 2, Interesting

      All good in meatspace. But now they have to deal with the whole world that doesn't necessarily fit their mold. Best that they keep their damn paper off the net and just email a copy to their subscribers.

      --
      For justice, we must go to Don Corleone
    3. Re:The difference is quality by BadAnalogyGuy · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The Yakuza is part and parcel of that code. It isn't an aberration at all. It is a product of the same culture that brings you pedophilia dressed up cartoon outfits, hugely xenophobic attitudes towards other races, hivemind-like business practices, a deep insecurity of own culture, the equating of product defects with moral defects, institutionalized misogyny, and widespread depression among males.

      It's a fucked up, oppressive culture that creates many terrible things, but at the same time many beautiful things. You can't separate the Yakuza from Japanese culture, just as you can't separate the geisha or sushi or cherry blossoms or Honda cars from it.

    4. Re:The difference is quality by BadAnalogyGuy · · Score: 2, Informative

      No, try explaining it to them without describing it as "retarded". See how many will say, "Yeah, that makes sense. Only paying users should have access."

      If you explain it with a certain bias, you'll find them agreeing with you, whether they hold that opinion or not.

    5. Re:The difference is quality by Mashiki · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Nikkei is by and far better then most NA papers. But saying that there's little to no petty crime isn't being true, there's plenty of it. The old centralist code is going poof, as by seen by the current generation of college and grade-schoolers. Want a heavy dose of honor-bound-things that people abide by Korea is where it's at. Everything else is turn your eye away from it, break the rules there's ways around it. Petty crime for the most part I agree, but I figure it has to do with the police not taking too kind a turn at people committing the crimes. The Japanese judicial system is very harsh on people who break the laws.

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
    6. Re:The difference is quality by Arancaytar · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The mafia has a strict code of honor, too.

      It's one reason why "MAFIAA" is kind of a misnomer for the music industry.

    7. Re:The difference is quality by Tromad · · Score: 3, Insightful

      This is straight up bullshit, I don't know if you live in Klan Country but I have lived within the US in California and Arizona and I'm not sure if a more diverse set of people live anywhere else in the world. In the middle of Republican Arizona I can get some of the most awesome authentic Afghani food available. There are entire communities of people from nearly everywhere in the world that exist in major cities here. Greek fairs, Asian fairs, Russian fairs nearly every week a culture celebrates themselves with large followings. Even suburban white people have yearly block parties and love for native american culture and western themed anything. It is true Americans are very behind in some respects but we are very open to other cultures. Even our immigration policies are more open than our neighbors (Canada in particular).

    8. Re:The difference is quality by anarche · · Score: 2, Funny

      Don't. EVER. Visit. Italy.

      --
      Wait! Whats a sig?
    9. Re:The difference is quality by russotto · · Score: 5, Insightful

      you just described my impression of america.

      Nice troll. America lacks almost completely the equating of product defects with moral defects. It lacks a deep insecurity of its own culture (quite the opposite, Americans take American culture so much for granted that many are often surprised when it doesn't exist elsewhere, and we export it without even trying) Institutionalized misogyny is largely absent; the places it holds out are generally places considered either morally suspect or low class or both (car sales, and particularly used car sales, being one such holdout.). Hugely xenophobic attitudes towards other races are held by a minority of the population, again usually not well-thought-of by the rest. Hivemind-like business practices? Uh, no. Even in the bad old days of legal cartels, there was nothing resembling a hive mind. Pedophilia dressed up in cartoon outfits? Again, no. So that leaves widespread depression among males. Judging from the drug commercials, I'd say you've got that one. One out of seven.... you must be European.

    10. Re:The difference is quality by Philip_the_physicist · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Except this isn't about paywalls and whether they are good or bad in any sense, it is about trying to prohibit people pointing links at your pages without permission. You can refuse t serve up a page if you like, or redirect people to a different page, but you can't object to someone pointing a hyperlink at anything they like. If your paywall is broken, that's your problem, not the rest of the world's.

    11. Re:The difference is quality by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Even our immigration policies are more open than our neighbors (Canada in particular).

      This is just false. As a foreigner looking for immigration options, I can assure you that Canada is much easier and friendlier to a skilled immigrant than US. For one thing, it does not have country quotas!

  3. Can't begin to compare by angus77 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Ummm..."the barriers have kept circulation of print editions quite high compared to the US"...? Circulation of papers in Japan has always been ridiculously higher in Japan than in the US. Some of those papers have daily circulations of eight figures---no American paper has ever achieved circulation figures like that, past or present. The local paper that I get (the Shizuoka Shinbun) has a daily circulation of over 700,000 (vs 900,000 for the New York Times), and it's not even read nationally like the Yomiuri, Mainichi, Asahi, Nikkei, etc.

    1. Re:Can't begin to compare by MidnightBrewer · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Density doesn't necessarily drive popularity. However, Japan is unique in its group mindset, where a lot of people are happy to do things just because everyone else does.

      Also, Japanese are strongly traditional and have a cultural appreciation for things like newspapers. They like to share, for one; they can clip articles; and a paper is viewed as more economical and frugal (doesn't require electricity).

      --
      "Give a man fire, and he'll be warm for a day; set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life
    2. Re:Can't begin to compare by MoonBuggy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Your phrasing is unnecessarily inflammatory, but the answer is 'yes'. However, the answer is also 'yes' if you asked the same blanket question about all Americans, or Indians, or Australians, or whatever.

      Cultural preferences and ideas become outmoded, or simply start off illogical, and don't always tally with the demonstrable facts. It happens everywhere.

  4. Wait just a minute by Superdarion · · Score: 3, Interesting

    There are certain forums (free as in beer in many cases) that require registration to even read. If you reach one of their pages thru a link, you are redirected to a "You have to register to see this" page.

    I'm talking about free forums using a template in many cases.

    So this newspaper in Japan that is being paid cannot do the same? Is their IT department full of idiotic monkeys in crack so that they can't implement a simple check to see if the user is logged in (thus paying) or not?

  5. Nature of the beast by In+hydraulis · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Perhaps my understanding of the World Wide Web is flawed, naïve, or both, but I don't think it works this way.

    Wasn't one of the premises of the WWW to be able to hyperlink to anything you want, anything at all, and the underlying technology designed to reflect this idealogy?

    If I'm wrong, please educate me.

    1. Re:Nature of the beast by Opportunist · · Score: 5, Insightful

      That's like it was when the internet was ruled by the techies. Now it's ruled by the beancounters.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    2. Re:Nature of the beast by Fumus · · Score: 3, Informative

      You are free to hyprerlink to it, but the server itself is free to ignore or block your request. Their site, their rules.

      This should be a non-existent story. Site wants users to pay for viewing it - site blocks unlogged users from viewing content. Why would anyone want to prevent linking to the site if it's behind a paywall already? Even crappy porn sites are confident enough in their protection system that they allow anyone to link to any part of the site. They just redirect you to the "Please pay" page and are happy you came over from a random link.

    3. Re:Nature of the beast by Spad · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The story isn't that they have a paywall, it's that they're demanding formal requests to be made in order for anyone to *link* to their content just in case someone finds a way around their paywall.

      It's like me demanding that people submit formal requests to me if they want to tell anyone my address, just in case someone finds a way to break into my house; it's not exactly the world's greatest anti-theft protection.

  6. Re:Not confident about security by drolli · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I work in a Japanese company. And i understand fully why they dont thrust their security. The main problem is that if the (incompetent) admins explains that something is in that way, then the boss will believe him.

  7. Absurdity by izomiac · · Score: 2, Interesting

    So, if the address of their website cannot be published without a fee, the what of their physical address and phone number? Do students and scholars also need to pay to cite them in a paper?

    Stuff like this makes me wish the Referrer and User-agent HTTP headers were disabled by default. It seems like they have zero benefit for users, and are merely used as stupidly weak forms of access control.

  8. Yeah good luck with that... by Mashiki · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I'll just keep reading other english/japanese dailies like MDN which have better content. Or any of the local papers which you can google out, not to mention actual commentary about what's going on. I think the last time I read Nikkei related was in 2001.

    --
    Om, nomnomnom...
  9. Free Content, we are drowning in it by linzeal · · Score: 2, Insightful

    No its not, and that is scaring the shit out of the beancounters. You may not use all the free content out there but trust me there are at least 1000:1 free:paid content out there atm even if it is mostly people's blogs about their cat's sleeping habits and free Mp3s from really bad hipster bands. There are still awesome repositories of information for people like arxiv.org and wikipedia.

    --
    An Education is the Font of All Liberty
  10. Not about technology. by v(*_*)vvvv · · Score: 5, Informative

    Nikkei has had many many failed internet ventures, and this is just another one of their bad ideas that passed through their over-aged internet-illiterate bureaucracy.

    I suspect this is more about politics within the market and about them preparing to strong arm those they think can be strong armed... It isn't like they're going to put up a notice, and sue all the referrers.

    In the old days, a ton of Japanese web sites would have "link free" or "links not permitted" notices on their sites. For some reason, many felt the web was linked with permission, and that they had a say. As if anyone could do anything about outside links, when I would tell them the internet was all about free linking, and that you wouldn't put pages up that you didn't want linked in the first place, people would seem to get the idea...

    This Nikkei thing is not about individuals linking to news articles. There site is practically unlinkable because they keep deleting stuff anyway.