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Sid Meier and the 48-Hour Game

Posted by Soulskill on from the crash-course dept.

MMBK writes "Sid Meier is possibly the most influential game designer ever, having developed the Civilization series, among others. This video documentary looks at his past while he travels to the University of Michigan for the 48-hour game design competition, which was hosted by his son."

58 comments

  1. these are pretty common, aren't they? by Trepidity · · Score: 1

    These one-to-four-day game-making events are usually called "game jams". I believe the idea originates with Chris Hecker circa 2002.

    Not that it won't be cool to see what Sid Meier makes, but the idea of a 48-hour video game isn't some insane thing nobody's tried before!

    --
    10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
    1. Re:these are pretty common, aren't they? by dskzero · · Score: 1

      These "game jams" aren't innovative, but given that someone of the fame and influence of Sid Meier attending one is certainly something out of the ordinary. That said, one of the really good things about Meier is the attention to detail. How much detail can you cram in 48 hours?

      --
      Oblivion Awaits
    2. Re:these are pretty common, aren't they? by holmstar · · Score: 1

      It could be that he has had an idea floating around in his head for years, that he thinks that he could code in 48 hours. While there is still a limit to what can be coded in that time period, he could still have an innovative and interesting game in mind.

  2. Deadlines by cosm · · Score: 2, Funny

    These days it feels like all games are being made within 48-hours.

    --
    'We are trying to prove ourselves wrong as quickly as possible, because only in that way can we find progress.' RPF
    1. Re:Deadlines by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      People don't even really make "the games" anymore. The just fill an existing engine with art.

    2. Re:Deadlines by ElSupreme · · Score: 1

      Not Starcraft 2!

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      My addiction: Arguing with idiots. AKA Slashdot!
    3. Re:Deadlines by sopssa · · Score: 0

      Uh, isn't that pretty much making the game (ignoring the over-simplifying). It doesn't make sense for everyone to code their awesome physics engine for every game but use PhysX and the same for graphics rendering, sound systems and so on. I'm actually kind of surprised so many companies still do make their own engines. Just check out DICE's sound environment in BF: Bad Company 2 - it's amazing.

      The engine is not what you play. The game is.

    4. Re:Deadlines by Hatta · · Score: 2, Funny

      Ohh, 48 hours to make a game. This being Sid Meier I thought it was 48 hours to complete the game.

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    5. Re:Deadlines by pushing-robot · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I've boycotted cookie-cutter games like that. Same with movies. Do you know how few filmmakers bother designing their own quarks and leptons and stuff? The lazy bastards think they can just fill an existing engine with art.

      --
      How can I believe you when you tell me what I don't want to hear?
    6. Re:Deadlines by SQLGuru · · Score: 1

      These days it feels like all games are being made within 48-hours.

      Counter point: Duke Nukem Forever

    7. Re:Deadlines by nbehary · · Score: 1

      Wish I had Mod points. Love that post. Hard to pick between Funny and Insightful. Made me laugh first, but after that it's the latter.

  3. Hi Everyone by bazald · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I'm one of the three co-coordinators of the contest. You can find out more information about it on our webpage:

    http://wolverinesoft.org/event/contest/48hourcontest7/

    If you have any questions, I'd be happy to try to answer them.

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    Insert self-referential sig here.
    1. Re:Hi Everyone by hellop2 · · Score: 1

      Thank you for your offer.

      I see from your link that you have to use approved libraries. But it says, "In the case of a MOD, a copy of the original game must be available to install.".

      This raises some questions for me. Co you can bring in any game you want and make a "mod" for it? What's the reasoning behind restricting users to approved libraries, if they can use any existing game? If you're making a mod, you would usually have access to the original game's sound/music/graphics. Does the music, sound and graphics that you use have to be created during the 48 hours? Doesn't the fact that you allow mods seem a little unfair to those who just made everything from scratch?

      To summarize, why wouldn't you level the playing field by making the available tools much more restrictive? For example, allow only a few languages (C++, Java, C#, VB) and a few graphics libraries (OpenGL, DirectX, Swing).

      Also, did any of the contestants even make a mod? Thanks... just curious. These kind of contests, like ACM, are fun.

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    2. Re:Hi Everyone by bazald · · Score: 3, Informative

      Anyone is allowed to write their own library before the contest and submit their code for approval.

      1. We need to verify that any such library doesn't contain 99% of a game, just waiting for them to make a few tweaks to fit the theme.
      2. We need to verify that the library's license allows anyone to use it for free, and allows us to distribute the games produced for free.
      3. We need to give others time to learn how to use the custom libraries, or it doesn't matter that the licensing is permissive.
      4. If we know what libraries are capable of, it makes judging effort a lot easier.

      You're right that there would be some issues with allowing mods in such a contest, but no, it hasn't come up yet. Still, we would know that we can redistribute the mod for free. We would also know that a lot of work was done for them, so we would be able to take that into account during the judging. Perhaps we should officially disallow mods, but I don't think that making a non-trivial mod for a commercial game in 48 hours would be easy, so it might be an interesting challenge for some of our members in the future. It is an interesting point that the developers would normally have the game's sound/music/graphics available to them when making a mod. By the current rules, I'm not sure that they would be able to use the graphics, but we'd probably have to allow the use of at least some graphical assets provided with the game. We would ask the developers to make it clear to us what assets they actually created.

      The only languages I've seen used are C++, C#, Java, and Flash. Libraries commonly used include SDL, OpenGL, zenilib, XNA, ClanLib, and SFML.

      --
      Insert self-referential sig here.
    3. Re:Hi Everyone by xiong.chiamiov · · Score: 1

      You should participate in Global Game Jam. It's like what you're doing, but simultaneously with a few thousand other people. My club participated this year, and it was much fun.

      --
      have you read the Moderation Guidelines Addendum?
  4. Not commercially meaningful? by bughunter · · Score: 2, Interesting

    While it's an intellectual challenge, and appeals to geek curiosity, how many really meaningful, influential games were written in one of these contests?

    I mean, Sid's famous for writing games that required incredible amounts of research, iterative design, playtesting and balance. Those are what most grognards are interested in... not the next casual twitchfest, nor even another NP Hard gem no matter how elegant.

    Sid, if your reading this, give us a modern, multiplayer version of NetHack (and not a click orgy like Diablo, but a "the dev team thinks of everything" masterpiece), or an updated turn-based strategy game like Fantasy General... I'm waiting for another trend of well balanced, challenging games to come along. Desperately.

    --
    I can see the fnords!
    1. Re:Not commercially meaningful? by bughunter · · Score: 1

      if your reading this

      [mimes shooting self in head]

      --
      I can see the fnords!
    2. Re:Not commercially meaningful? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      now why would a mime do that?

    3. Re:Not commercially meaningful? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, Sid says that he does very little to no research for his games. He just makes what seems fun. I think Iterative design, playtesting, and balance are all important things to him though.

    4. Re:Not commercially meaningful? by Gadget_Guy · · Score: 3, Insightful

      While it's an intellectual challenge, and appeals to geek curiosity, how many really meaningful, influential games were written in one of these contests?

      This is supposed to be news for nerds, please hand in your /. userid. The correct nerd response to a 48 hour game competition is "that would be fun" and not "what is the point". Some people do actually program for their own fun and not just to give you an updated version of NetHack. Anyone playing the games that result from these competitions are not doing so to find the next big classic game, but to see what people can achieve in a short time.

      Sorry to sound confrontational, but I can't understand why anyone could even think that this sort of competition should end up with some meaningful and influential game. This is the epitime of the original, true geek. The goal of the geek is the same as a mountaineer: you climb a mountain or solve a problem because it is there.

    5. Re:Not commercially meaningful? by daeley · · Score: 2, Informative

      now why would a mime do that?

      Despite being trapped in a glass box, a painfully high wind inevitably rises up, and no amount of invisible rope is going to save you from a pummeling. I mean, you're trapped in a box made of glass! Many of them can't take the pressure and mime shooting themselves in the head. A lot of them miss -- with an invisible gun and bullets, this is perhaps inevitable -- but many hit their mark all too well, causing a great red flower to burst from their temples.

      Mimes are a truly misunderstood underclass, deserving of our pity, not our scorn.

      --
      I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate.
    6. Re:Not commercially meaningful? by Targon · · Score: 1

      The purpose of these sort of contests isn't to come up with a REAL game, but it is more about the encouragement of being creative in game design and implementation. Remember, those who compete will probably end up working in the industry if they are lucky, and the more they focus on game design and implementation, the better they will be when the time comes for them to make a commercially viable game. The game industry really has been suffering from a shortage of NEW games that are not just a modern clone of older games, and that is a big problem.

      How much true originality is there is all of the shooters and World War 2 games you see that are out there? Or RTS games that are more of the same stuff we have seen from the old Warcraft days(original RTS)? Technically games are getting better, but for gameplay, there is a huge shortage of NEW ideas, and that is what needs to be encouraged, new ideas. The reason the game industry as a whole feels a bit stale on the PC is because so few are focused on making something that is really original.

    7. Re:Not commercially meaningful? by inviolet · · Score: 1

      This is supposed to be news for nerds, please hand in your /. userid. The correct nerd response to a 48 hour game competition is "that would be fun" and not "what is the point". Some people do actually program for their own fun and not just to give you an updated version of NetHack. Anyone playing the games that result from these competitions are not doing so to find the next big classic game, but to see what people can achieve in a short time.

      Yep yep.

      Sorry to sound confrontational, but I can't understand why anyone could even think that this sort of competition should end up with some meaningful and influential game. This is the epitime of the original, true geek. The goal of the geek is the same as a mountaineer: you climb a mountain or solve a problem because it is there.

      ". . . because it is there, and because no matter how remote the mountain is located, a female might see you climbing it and decide to put out."

      --
      FATMOUSE + YOU = FATMOUSE
    8. Re:Not commercially meaningful? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Right, thats why the civolopedia is basically empty and I know nothing about any of the founding fathers.

    9. Re:Not commercially meaningful? by rrhal · · Score: 1

      Are you trying to say that by building the Great Pyramids the Egyptians actually got graineries in all of their towns?

      --
      All generalizations are false, including this one. Mark Twain
    10. Re:Not commercially meaningful? by nhytefall · · Score: 1

      "Giiit yer Mime Hunting tags right hyere, folks... step right up, one a ta time, just 5 dollars each..."

      Anyway... back to your regularly scheduled program.

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      0100010001101001011001 0100100000011010010110 1110001000000110000100 1000000110011001101001 0111001001100101
    11. Re:Not commercially meaningful? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "how many really meaningful, influential games were written in one of these contests?"

      The challenge is to take something and make it interesting given constraints, the challenging constraints themselves should spur innovation. What you're missing is that when there is pressure to perform new ideas to deal with the time pressure will emerge adding to our body of knowledge.

    12. Re:Not commercially meaningful? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You act like an updated version of nethack is a bad thing.

    13. Re:Not commercially meaningful? by sowth · · Score: 1

      To make a game as hard as nethack is easy. Here is some pseudocode:

      If playeraction and rand(10)==2 then playerdie

      Based on my experience anyway. ;-)

    14. Re:Not commercially meaningful? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, but they had access to all forms of government, could change to them without anarchy and both of these effects lasted until the development of communism.

    15. Re:Not commercially meaningful? by brkello · · Score: 1

      Somewhere along the line, Slashdot changed from a news for nerds site to news for "Nerds who are so smart that everything sucks and you better agree with my Libertarian views or get off my lawn" site.

      I think they haven't updated it because the former is more catchy.

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    16. Re:Not commercially meaningful? by bughunter · · Score: 1

      A lot of you have said I'm "missing" the obvious aspect of this exercise.

      No, I didn't miss it. When I hit reply, all of the other replies to the main article addressed it. So I chose to open another line of discussion.

      Also you seem to have misinferred my comment into, simply, "what is the point of this contest?"

      I'm not questioning the point of the contest. If I'm questioning anything, I'm questioning the sensationalism of the news that Sid Meier will be there, when he is famous for an entirely different kind of game.

      But even then, it was really taking the opportunity to tell Sid, "moar Sid gaemz plz!"

      --
      I can see the fnords!
  5. 48-Hour Game by juventasone · · Score: 1

    When I read the headline I was certain it was referring to the time required to complete a single game of Civilization. I just concluded a single-player civ4 game on standard speed and spent around that amount of play time. It's certainly a change of pace from games like Starcraft where 2 hours is epically long.

    1. Re:48-Hour Game by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Same. I thought "A 48-hour game isn't that crazy."
      But on SC, it's a completely different experience.
      Most would probably disagree, but I think SC and SC2 are more cerebral. They truly are modern Chess, and the level of expertise exhibited by those top-tier players is mind-bogglingly astonishing. Yet, like you said, a 2+ hour game feels insane.
      The Civ series, ostensibly, has more in common with a massive chess game: slow turn-based, grids, etc, which is why I think it's considered more the "thinking man's game." But the detail, pacing, and ... I guess lore, make those 10+ hour games feel natural. It's driven by a kind of wordless narrative, something neither SC nor chess has.
      I just got into the SC2 beta, and I love it. It's a great game. But I'm also exceptionally excited about the prospect of more massive games, whether in the Civ series or not, that'll have me staying up til 5am on schooldays like Civ2 and 3 did.

    2. Re:48-Hour Game by rachit · · Score: 1

      Starcraft? Cerebral? It's a massive clickfest. The amount of micro you have to do to be competitive is mind-boggling.

      I'm not saying it doesn't take brains to be good at Starcraft, its like saying basketball is cerebral. Sure, smarts let you make better decisions, but if you are fast and strong, that probably makes a much bigger difference than "smart" basketball.

    3. Re:48-Hour Game by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      You're also unlikely to win at Chess by making an early pawn rush.

    4. Re:48-Hour Game by HanClinto · · Score: 1

      Though it might apply more to chessboxing.

    5. Re:48-Hour Game by Monkeedude1212 · · Score: 3, Funny

      When I read the headline I was certain it was referring to the time required to complete a single game of Civilization. I just concluded a single-player civ4 game on standard speed and spent around that amount of play time. It's certainly a change of pace from games like Starcraft where 2 hours is epically long.

      Ha - Hahaha!

      Man, I know I've spent Well over 48 hours in a single player civ game - and multiplayer has taken over 100 hours of game time to even reach a level nearing climax.

      As for Starcraft, 2 hours isn't epic. I'd say 2 hours is breaching what one might call a long-ish game. A quick game is about 20 minutes. A regular game is about an hour. An Epically long game, which is to say, 3 players on an 8 player Map, goes from 9 pm till 6 am, with all players remaining till the last 20 minutes.

      Yes its happened, and yes I have the replay.

  6. Major SEO by majorseo · · Score: 1

    Sid Meier is possibly the most influential game designer ever!

  7. Brings me back by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Wow, that brings me back to why I got involved with programming in the first place. Back then, it was all about fun. Nowadays it's paying the bills, but I enjoy work a lot more than some of my friends.

  8. Whoa... by leachlife4 · · Score: 1

    never realized keanu reeves was into programming

  9. LD48 by kirill.s · · Score: 1

    There's another game-making competition coming up next weekend: Ludum Dare 17

  10. 48 hours? by advocate_one · · Score: 1

    sounds like the usual development time for Playfish before sticking it up as a perpetual "beta"...

    --
    Donald 'Duck' Dunn: We had a band powerful enough to turn goat piss into gasoline.
  11. Influence by mqduck · · Score: 1

    Sid Meier is possibly the most influential game designer ever

    What? How could anybody say that with a straight face? Granted, I love his games, but that statement is just silly. For one thing, Civilization was designed as a macro-level version of SimCity. Will Wright would be a better candidate: SimCity, The Sims, Sim.*, Spore...

    --
    Property is theft.
    1. Re:Influence by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Miyamoto would be a better candidate.

      FTFY

    2. Re:Influence by AdamWill · · Score: 1

      as I was going to put it, there's another guy with the initials SM who might have something to say about it :)

    3. Re:Influence by pydev · · Score: 1

      For one thing, Civilization was designed as a macro-level version of SimCity.

      It was also designed 20 years after the first turn-based strategy game, curiously also called Civilization (also Empire), and years after the first graphical game of this type. And Civilization copied liberally from a board game of the same name.

    4. Re:Influence by mqduck · · Score: 1

      You didn't "fix" anything, but you're right. Both Wright and Miyamoto would be better candidates. Miyamoto could have made a quarter of his contribution to video games and would still have been one of the greatest designers ever.

      --
      Property is theft.
  12. Irony by kenp2002 · · Score: 1

    Am I the only one that sees irony in the fact Sid Meier, a guy who takes 3 years to make games that take 30 hours to play being mentioned in the same sentence as 48 hour game making session...?

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    -=[ Who Is John Galt? ]=-
    1. Re:Irony by kramerd · · Score: 1

      Am I the only one that sees irony in the fact Sid Meier, a guy who takes 3 years to make games that take 30 hours to play being mentioned in the same sentence as 48 hour game making session...?

      Yes, because that isn't irony. Also, his son is hosting the contest, the article is about a documentary about Sid Meier.

      I find you to be particularly lazy to not read 2 sentences with enough reading comprehension to get the point.

  13. I once thought as you did by manekineko2 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I once thought as you did about Starcraft. I thought it was basically real time tactics and click speed contests. Then I watched some pro replays on Youtube, and realized how wrong I was.

    The Starcraft community refers to strategy as macro, and tactics as micro, and it's widely understood that both are essential ingredients to play well. You can see games where someone micro's masterfully, but they don't have a big enough picture view of the game and get absolutely slaughtered.

  14. dull by pydev · · Score: 1, Insightful

    I found the Civ games to be pretty dull derivatives of various UNIX simulation games, including some world and space conquest games. I don't think Sid Meier really deserves that much credit.

  15. why does Sid Meier get so much credit? by pydev · · Score: 1

    Empire was first developed in 1971, and in 1973 renamed Civilization. There were numerous other versions afterwards.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empire_Classic_(computer_game)

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classic_Empire_(computer_game)

    xconq was a clone of Empire, later extended, and first released in 1987, and with a graphical user interface.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xconq

    Civilization was first released in 1991, 15 years after the Empire game. It was neither the first computer-based turn-based strategy game, nor the first graphical game of this type. It also "borrowed" lots of ideas from the board game Civilization.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilization_(computer_game)

    It's nice that Meier introduced the PC masses to these kinds of games and made a lot of money doing so. But let's give credit to the pioneers, not to the people who copied them.

    1. Re:why does Sid Meier get so much credit? by RAMMS+EIN · · Score: 1

      Hey, thanks for mentioning Xconq! I didn't know about that yet. It looks really interesting!

      --
      Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.
  16. sopssa is all talk. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    See subject above. All you are is another slashdot troll with a big set of talk, but no actual deeds to your credit backing up your bluster, big talker. Do you actually program games or are you just another armchair quarterback talking out his behind? I'll wager the latter.