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Colleague Comes Forward To Defend Anthrax Suspect
Hugh Pickens writes "The NY Times writes about Henry S. Heine, a former Army microbiologist who worked for years with Bruce E. Ivins, whom the FBI has blamed for the anthrax letter attacks that killed five people in 2001. Heine told a 16-member National Academy of Sciences panel reviewing the FBI's scientific work on the investigation that he believes it is impossible that the deadly spores could have been produced undetected in Ivins's laboratory, as the FBI asserts. Heine told the panel that producing the quantity of spores in the letters would have taken at least a year of intensive work using the equipment at the army lab, an effort that would not have escaped colleagues' notice. Lab technicians who worked closely with Ivins have told Heine they saw no such work. Heine adds that, in addition, the biological containment measures where Ivins worked were inadequate to prevent the spores from floating out of the laboratory into animal cages and offices. 'You'd have had dead animals or dead people.' Asked why he is speaking out now, almost two years after Ivins's suicide, Heine says that Army officials had prohibited comment on the case, silencing him until he left the government laboratory. Although Heine does not dispute that there was a genetic link between the spores in the letters and the anthrax in Ivins's flask, Heine says samples from the flask were widely shared. 'Whoever did this is still running around out there. I truly believe that.'"
...is generally not that deadly. My uncle used to deal with cattle with black leg all the time. This story is ONCE AGAIN blown out of proportion--thanks, FBI.
Army officials had prohibited comment on the case, silencing him until he left the government laboratory.
I'm sure he told the Army & FBI about this. Sounds like anthrax killed a scapegoat named Bruce E. Ivins to me.
Nobody OD's on Tylenol in order to commit suicide. It's too ugly and painful. There are much quicker ways.
cover up?
'We are trying to prove ourselves wrong as quickly as possible, because only in that way can we find progress.' RPF
And no one who was paying attention to the original details of the story are surprised.
Whether or not there is some sort of god, I'm not supposed to say/god is a word and the argument ends there-Smog
So a strain of Anthrax, developed by the US Military, get's mailed to a Democratic senator, and a high profile journalist, about a month after 9/11. After years of "investigating" they blame a dead guy who can't defend himself.
This is a case that will never be solved because whoever it was in the government that did it, has covered their tracks.
The Atlantic has a really interesting article about the FBI's multi-year investigation of Stephen Hatfill for the same crime.
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2010/04/the-wrong-man/8019
Seems all a bunch of negatives. He concedes a genetic link that sources this stuff to the lab, but can't believe this could have gone unnoticed. And he uses the supposedly poor containment at the lab as another negative example, claiming that the other labs, animals and technicians should have become infected if the work was done there. But otherwise things were so tight that someone else would have noticed the production of all this anthrax.
So that is two men the US Government accused of the Anthrax attacks, one of which killed himself and the second almost did. Neither with any real evidence other than vague coincidences. Just goes to show that when the pressure to solve an investigation goes to such extremes mistakes are bound to happen.
I think we should ask about the state's method. In one case they intentionally harassed a suspect by releasing his name to the media, conducting multiple searches, and following him around 24/7 and even having local law enforcement arrest him multiple times on silly charges.
In any other country that has some kind of independent police watchdog you would have consequences but in the US where law enforcement seem to be above the law and "investigate" (ha ha) themselves they just get worse and worse year after year.
Not a particularly poweful opiate. Not enough to cause death in the doses found in Tylenol with codeine. The APAP is what got him.
The stories and info posted here are artistic works of fiction and falsehood.
Only fools would take it as fact.
When this first happened, I stated that this was a multi-person job and the original bugs came from the military. The military part was proven.
This was a multi-person job. In particular, the envelopes that leaked at the start of USPS would have leaked through their system. They did not. Somebody hand carried them INTO the USPS, stamped them, carried them out and then hand delivered them at the final destination. The person that did that either worked at that particular location (not likely), OR was able to move between locations. That means either a temp or a high ranking USPS person that is very likely ex-military.
Also, the idea that Ivins did the final work in a specialized underwater bio-box to work on this was stupid. Filled with air and trying to do all the work? Yeah. RIGHT.
This was a group effort. Ivins was at best a participant by supplying the original bug and the tech know-how, though that would take some proving.
Everyone is assuming that all that weaponized anthrax came from the lab by its genetic makeup. Its possible only a sample was taken, and "mass produced" elsewhere. Yeah, it takes "special equipment", but its not like you need nuclear tools or there's only 7 machines in the world like it. Like the Kennedy assassination, and 9/11, we're never going to get the complete truth out of this.
There is no America. There is no democracy. There is only IBM and AT&T and DuPont, Dow, General Electric, and Exxon
it screams conspiracies and secret government involvement
but real life is not a hollywood movie, occam's razor is unfortunately mundane and boring. the simplest, lamest, conspiracy-free explanation is the truth
but flame on paranoid schizophrenics: this story is made for you. wig out and bug out while you can
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
I didn't know Alex Jones was a slashdot member.
Glenn Greenwald has been writing about the anthrax issue for a while... check him out: http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2008/08/01/anthrax and http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2009/03/04/anthrax/index.html and http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2008/08/04/anthrax/ and http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2007/04/09/abc_anthrax/index.html for starters
The Atlantic magazine just published a really eye-opening article on Steven Hatfill, the FBI's first suspect. It is very clear from the article that the FBI was hell-bent on finding a perpetrator of the crime even in the absence of any solid evidence. It's an interesting and frightening read about how the FBI could completely destroy your job, your friends, your day-to-day life, and your family if they falsely accuse you of a crime.
People are not nearly as observant as they think they are. Been proven time and time again. People always think they "know" a person or they are certain of what the saw or didn't see. Multiple psychological studies have shown that people's certainty has little to no correlation with reality.
Over-the-top Response Guy! Giving "Over-the-Top Responses" since 1970.
Tylenol + Codeine only has about 30 mg of codeine. A minimum lethal dose of codeine is at about 800 mg. That means he would have had to swallow almost 30 pills to die. As the GP said, that's a ridiculous way to suicide.
How often do folks come forward to say that they can't imagine that their associate/friend/neighbor/spouse couldn't have done the crime. Sometimes they're right and their wrong.
Again, he wouldn't have to swallow that many, and likely didn't. The APAP in amounts found in Tylenol products is far more lethal than the codeine. Still absolutely ridiculous, seeing as how we're not talking about some crazy man who set his ass on fire, but rather a man who purportedly wanted an easy way to end it all because of harassment by law enforcement, and again, as a biologist, would know exactly what an APAP suicide would entail.
The stories and info posted here are artistic works of fiction and falsehood.
Only fools would take it as fact.
Anthrax cover-up on line one !
I agree with you. My post was purely to deal with the anonymous above who was trying to claim that it could have been the codeine to do it. I'm just pointing out how ridiculous that claim would be as tylenol+codeine has such a small dosage amount versus what is a lethal adult dose.
Yeah I got that, I was really just expanding on what you had posted.
The stories and info posted here are artistic works of fiction and falsehood.
Only fools would take it as fact.
Just to clarify,
Seth
$5 / month hosted VPS on linux = awesome!
It was done by rogue elements inside the government who wanted that patriot act passed, plus as a warning to journalists/newsies to never investigate beyond what the government official fairy tale story is on important events, such as 9-11. The mainstream press has just ceased doing any investigative reporting where it could contradict what the official party line is. And you don't need tinfoil, false flag events, using agent provocateurs, etc are SOP with government(s) going way way back, from small town police forces all the way to the top of the military industrial complex. Look at Viet Nam, a huge war promoted in part on a huge lie, the "gulf of tonkin" attack. War is big business, the security police state is big business, and then you have to look at "who profits" the most politically from having US boots on the ground all over the middle east (hint: proxy fighting forces for a regime that is untouchable politically inside the US)
Douchebag moderation says it very nicely.
what did you think of last night's episode of "fringe"?
isn't it great the truth is finally coming out?
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
The FBI already did this to another guy.
They smeared and squeezed Steven Hatfill for several years. Ashcroft accused him publicly. They shadowed him 24-7. He lost all work and most friends. He is innocent.
The only reason he didn't commit suicide from the harassment was that, "If I would've killed myself, I would've been automatically judged by the press and the FBI to be guilty."
Don't take my word for it, read it here.
WHO IS JEAN DULEY?
Dr. Bruce Ivins, Ms. Jean Duley, and the FBI's "Court Document"
I'm not saying that Vice President Cheney was involved in any way...
Baloney.
Of course you are.
It's the message you intended to deliver. Don't try to weasel your way out of it.
Either say it - and prove it - or keep your big mouth shut.
I agree I shall use it when ever a douchebag mis-moderates someone. We shall use this phrase to strike fear into the heart of douchebags across the land. Come with me brothers its time to turn the tides and take back the /. that used to be (or something)
The above reads like "Monty Python's Spanish Inquisition Sketch - The Lost Dialog Page".
Yes - I am with you good sir! We shall band together and battle tirelessly to assert the will of the Church of More or Less Normal Geeks in order regain rule of fair Slashdot and to banish all Douchebag Moderators to hell (or Digg).
The cause is just and noble and righteous!
The time is now!
We strike at dawn!
Or maybe 11:30, because tomorrow is Saturday and I like a good lie-in.
I used to watch this show on TV called "The Science of War". It was documentary style with topics like: chemical warfare, biological war, nuclear warfare, etc.
The one thing that really stuck in my head was how easy, cheap and effective biological warfare is. And worldwide distribution (ie: killing life) is feasible by just about any country with a well financed mad man. And it does not require the technology or limited resources of nuclear.
The news always plays up nuclear fears. But biological war is far easier and can be just as devastating.
Of course you wouldn't want to use the mail system... that's just too unreliable. A crop duster will do tho.
regarding this article... everyone knows the gov did it to insight terror. or let it happen. good fun and why not?
New book and film on Ivins frame-up, military-industrial- terror-complex and the mysterious deaths of other anthrax scientists. Anthrax War by Bob Coen and Eric Nadler (brother of US Rep. Jerry Nadler (D-NY) www.anthraxwar.com
Actually, that article only looks at only eight out of ten hand picked occupations.. Further in the article, "When you look at the actual duties, you see that very few federal jobs align with those in the private sector," she says. She says federal employees are paid an average of 26% less than non-federal workers doing comparable work."
I guess it's pretty effective to silence other researchers who might know something though..
To continue the attacks would be too risky, since it's hard to bribe / kill everyone involved.
But who could have done such a thing, in order to get boost for new wars and Patriot Act?
There is a lot of misinformation about "silica" and weaponized
Somewhere, you can download the 200 page pdf of the fbi report
the silica/weaponized is a red herring based on early data that is inconclusive (some sort of scanning xray spectroscopy i think)
the main point of the 200 page plus fbi report is that this guy was wierd and that he had several day of unexplained late night visits to the lab
there is also a lot of confusin about who had access to the "magic" flask that is the source of the powder.
There is a very good article in this months Atlantic about what hell the FBI put Steven Hatfill through while thinking he was the guy who did this. Then, after two years of it, having ruined his job prospects and made every day a living hell, they turn they attention to Ivins. It wasn't until they started doing the same thing to Ivins, he broke down and committed suicide, that they declared him guilty and "case closed"
Something smells fishy about this entire thing.
I honestly wouldn't be surprised if this was more an inside job than anything. I honestly see the timing on this as too convenient.
You notice how everyone was up on arms of the voter fraud and wanting a recount on the votes from the election and how they kept getting stonewalled by the government from any attempts. Then all of a sudden "ANTHRAX IN THE MAIL!!!" which got everyone to forget all about it while at the same time trying to instill fear into the public to further entice them to support a war. Then after the anthrax scare was over, there was a media blackout on the voter fraud issue and virtually the entire public just dropped it and moved on like an alzheimer's patient and never looked back.
My point is that people are busy with their own priorities and do not in fact notice what other people are or are not doing - even if they think they do.
Over-the-top Response Guy! Giving "Over-the-Top Responses" since 1970.