Indian Copyright Bill Declares Private, Personal Copying "Fair Dealing"

asp7yxia writes "India's new copyright bill sounds like a pretty good piece of work: it declares private, personal copying to be 'fair dealing' (like US fair use) and limits the prohibition on breaking DRM so that it's only illegal to do so if you're also violating copyright."

Comments

+1 post of referral mastery

[Anonymous Coward]

A link to boingboing that links to a blog that links to the WSJ blog post that actually talks about the topic. Way to go.

Re:+1 post of referral mastery

[ThePhilips]

I personally do not mind.

As value of news is diminishing with every day, I value now more random user comment which often prove to be insightful. That includes obviously blog posts too.

Re:+1 post of referral mastery

[TheRaven64]

Or, in short: If nobody reads TFA, does it truly link to a blog with no information content?

Re:+1 post of referral mastery

[Anonymous Coward]

Link to the actual act: Copyright Amendment Bill, 2010 (http://prsindia.org/uploads/media/Copyright%20Act/Copyright%20Bill%202010.pdf)

Indian Copyright Bill

[koona]

Am I the only one out here that has noticed that where people really have to work hard, they don't put up with much bullshit? Any indian will tell you that america is a fools paradise, and we put up with so much malarky it's sickening.

Re:Indian Copyright Bill

[Anonymous Coward]

Yea, because I see so much freedom in india. Added to that, I've never seen anyone get politcally active in the US.

Re:Indian Copyright Bill

[Anonymous Coward]

I think most other countries see a lot of crap which others accept in the name of not being confrontational. E.g. most right thinking people would probably like to go to an As Seen On TV retailer and say that most of their products are pieces of trash. Extend that idea to the whole society.

To a large extent "giving people what they want" usually is nothing more than lowest-common-denominator-ism. The surest defence against such abuse of people's intellects is a strong educational system and careful parenting. None of this is contradictory with modern social ideas: Rachel Maddow represents both modern social ideas as well as strong education. Another example is when TV game shows were being introduced in the USSR in the late 80s, people would criticize the idiocy of some of the contestants (I guess until then idiots never featured prominently in public).

Re:Indian Copyright Bill

[griffinfinity]

Yeah but malarky tastes so much better when you haven't had your your tongue cut out...

Re:Indian Copyright Bill

[Ethanol-fueled]

Am I the only one out here that has noticed that where people have to work 18 hours a day supporting their families or belong to a lower caste, they are alraedy putting up with much bullshit? Even now, any Indian would wet themselves at the prospect of being able to work in America.

Still, India has a lot less of a stake in those matters than we do -- they're one of the developing economies getting all of the decent jobs, producing little creative output(in before Slumdog). As America's jobs are sold to the lowest bidder offshore, all that's left of America's economy will be its creative content.

Re:Indian Copyright Bill

[cyp43r]

Because no Indians travel to America seeking their fortunes. Some Indians will tell you that, but some won't. India has suffered a lot of bullshit that the USA hasn't, that's for sure.

Re:Indian Copyright Bill

[Paktu]

I suspect I'm going to get modded down for saying this, but...
You might be able to make the case that Indians work hard, but are they actually productive. I read one anecdote after another about terrible performance from Indian web designers, programmers, call center workers, etc.

I am very reluctant to believe that Indians are somehow inherently "better workers" than Americans.

Re:Indian Copyright Bill

[Anonymous Coward]

producing little creative output(in before Slumdog).

Pfff! Ignorant Americans!

Re:Indian Copyright Bill

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't think the argument is about being "better workers".

Hire a professional company in India that charges the same (or economically equivalent) amount that and American company does, then compare the standard of quality.

If you want work done cheap, expect cheap work to be done.

When people take pride in the work that they do, you can expect a standard of quality. Sadly, though, this is not the common case in the Indian services industry where most people do a job they hate, with insane hours, solely for the economical sustenance.

Re:Indian Copyright Bill

[thePig]

Even now, any Indian would wet themselves at the prospect of being able to work in America.

producing little creative output(in before Slumdog)

I take that you do not know too much about India. I think it is short sighted to talk about a country you have not lived in for atleast few years. Whatever you think as true, might not be, you know.

I am an Indian, and I have lots of friends who went to USA, came back and do not want to go back there. Lest you think it is just anecdotal evidence, Jared Diamond, in Guns, Germs and Steel has quite a bit of literature specifically set for this scenario. His finding was that, even though living in developed countries provide you better healthcare and even better security, the overall quality of living actually is same or even lesser in developed economies compared to developing economies*.

The overall quality of life is determined by lots of factors - one of the most important being relations. Humans seems to be most happy with very close and extended families and lot of friends, which is usually lost in western cultures. Most of my friends are back here because they want to be home.

Regarding creative output, I would have to say that you are quite wrong in that aspect. Also it is not correct to calculate creativity based on how many hollywood movies that country has come up with.

We have our own genres of music, two of the most popular being Carnatic and hindustani, we have our own genres of dances, the most important eight being Kathakali, Bharatanatyam, Kuchipudi, Odissi, Manipuri, Sattriya and Kathak.

Please note that these are only the major ones known throughout India. Each state has completely different set of dances and music associated with it which people follow widely. In addition to these we have good literature movement, very good drama movement and each state has their own movie system too. India has more than 20 major languages, so the movies are usually made for one language only - i.e. why it is not appreciated much outside the country.

What I would suggest is do not go just by what best sellers and media portray - the actuality might be very different. Also, please consider that what you consider as happiness might not be the only scale with which others measure theirs.

* Unless they are in poverty.

Re:Indian Copyright Bill

[Anonymous Coward]

According to the article, there is at least one freedom that India now has that the USA doesn't.

Re:Indian Copyright Bill

[Rogerborg]

producing little creative output(in before Slumdog)

You fail an Internets. Bollywood "creates" nearly twice as many films as Hollywood, which are watched by many more people. I guess you wouldn't class them as real movies, since they haven't figured out that the real business is in marketing and moichandising.

Re:Indian Copyright Bill

[AK Marc]

Even now, any Indian would wet themselves at the prospect of being able to work in America.

That's a false dichotomy. You make it sound like there's only two choices, live there or move to the US and they'd pick the US. What about the UK or Australia? Or (aside from the language barrier) Germany, France, or anywhere else in the EU for that matter? And I know plenty of Americans that drool of working in UAE for the high pay and tax-free status.

The only ones that want to go to the US are the ones that buy the lies that it's easier to start a business of your own in the US and make a fortune from it. But for anyone that wants to "work" somewhere for a paycheck, the US should be somewhere in the top 20, but not the top one, unless you have specific requirements for language and other things (like climate, I'm not a fan of the UK climate). How would you list the top countries to work if you could work anywhere without regard to language and such?

Re:Indian Copyright Bill

[blackraven14250]

the overall quality of living actually is same or even lesser in developed economies compared to developing economies*.

I'm fairly sure that, having seen what the Mumbai slums look like, that they're about as awesome as being homeless. When you consider that there's 5 times the number of people in Dharavi (600,000) than are chronically homeless in the US (120,000), I don't know how you can make a statement about quality of living being better there.

Unless you go the subjective route, of course. Then, you're talking about interviewing whole loads of people that only have an experience in one place, and can't form any sort of opinion based on facts.

Re:Indian Copyright Bill

[man1sh]

they're one of the developing economies getting all of the decent jobs, producing little creative output(in before Slumdog)

Height of ignorance. Looks like the only encounter you have with India is the movie "Slumdog millionaire". This is what I call typical "Frog in the well attitude"

Re:Indian Copyright Bill

[man1sh]

Also, please consider that what you consider as happiness might not be the only scale with which others measure theirs.

Correct Raj. Having more shopping malls is not a measure of development and progress. More people eating in McDonalds and KFC doesn't make India a happy nation. For India, happiness is mostly achieved by living together in family. You share your success and failures with family and lots more. It's more of a social issue rather than eating in subway or KFC.

Re:Indian Copyright Bill

[Darkman, Walkin Dude]

Humans seems to be most happy with very close and extended families and lot of friends, which is usually lost in western cultures.

Might be a good idea to visit the majority of western cultures instead, I think, such as those in Europe. You don't need to turn your country into a soulless corporate rat run in order to advance technologically and socially, thats just the most profitable way of doing it.

Re:Indian Copyright Bill

[Ethanol-fueled]

Okay, so you guys have the obligatory pandering fad-culture Simpson's episode just like the Brazilians. Speaking from an American's perspective, let me answer you:

I take that you do not know too much about India. I think it is short sighted to talk about a country you have not lived in for atleast few years. Whatever you think as true, might not be, you know.

You're right, and I'm willing to go to India for a few years. I'm an adventurous guy. But my job won't take me there and my vacation money is better spent in Europe.

I have lots of friends who went to USA, came back and do not want to go back there. Lest you think it is just anecdotal evidence...the overall quality of living actually is same or even lesser in developed economies compared to developing economies*...* Unless they are in poverty.

Nice caveat. After you define "poverty in India", I'll tell you this: once you have access to flush toilets and clean water, you tend to take even more pride in what you have.

The overall quality of life is determined by lots of factors - one of the most important being relations. Humans seems to be most happy with very close and extended families and lot of friends, which is usually lost in western cultures. Most of my friends are back here because they want to be home.

Because making love to a partner is SO much more fun with family in the house. You'll come to understand that too, remember a prior Slashdot article about the indians' love for searching for "sex" on the internet? Some of us like to leave the roost when we come of age lest we let momma dress us for the rest of our lives. But perhaps I'm just being a closed-minded ethnocentric pig.

Regarding creative output...We have our own genres of music, two of the most popular being Carnatic and hindustani...

That's nice, we have Jazz which is far more harmonically complex than the Hindustani emphasis on the single-line vocal portamento accompanied by droning. I'll give you rhythm, though. You guys got some wild time signatures. But, we also have rock and roll. By the way, the Indians who have the resources to go to the USA are often insulated from their own poor. Credibility nullified.

Re:Indian Copyright Bill

[aBaldrich]

It is not about the average hours of work. "Copyright violation" is socially accepted in developing countries only because OS + Spreadsheet cost is equal to the average monthly income. And they really don't care about a foreign corporation's profit.

Re:Indian Copyright Bill

[SpeedyDX]

I'm not going to argue that the GP is right or wrong - I haven't talked to many Indians, I have no clue.

However, I will say that being politically active is not necessarily being politically effective. The U.S. has two major parties. Two major candidates compete for the Presidential election, getting anywhere from 95-99% of the total popular vote. You have two choices: right or left? And most of the rest of the world doesn't consider your left-wing choice to even fall left of centre of their respective political spectra. Where's your choice? Where's your freedom? Where's your free market? Politics in the U.S. is a duopoly. It's certainly better than a monopoly, no doubt about that. But how much better is it? How effective is political activism when you only have two real choices?

(Aside. Granted, the nature of the American republic allows for markedly different governance at the level of states. I'm painting an overly broad stroke, and the degree to which there is separation of powers between federal and state levels is a significant advantage that the American republic has. But at least on the federal level, where copyright law resides to the best of my understanding, there are only two real choices. Actually, come to think of it, you might have less choice than you think: the American constitution is written in such a way as to oblige - in theory with considerable exceptions that would take too long to discuss here - the federal government to follow international treaties that it has ratified.)

I won't pretend to speak for other nations, with the exception that I know that there are at least several, to put it mildly, political parties in India. However, in Canada we have four (foreseeably five in the next election) parties that may prove to have a significant share of seats in Parliament. While the NDP and Bloc (failed at figuring out how to directly link due to /.'s encoding) are generally not in the running to form government, they sometimes find themselves with the balance of power during minority governments when the two dominant parties (Liberals and Conservatives) are in a power struggle. Granted, this doesn't happen very often, but because of the significant minorities that they hold, they generally have at least a bit of political clout.

Tommy Douglas is an important example. He was a social democratic (first leader of the NDP) politician who had, arguably, one of the greatest impacts in Canada's political history. He was the first leader/head of any government in Canada to propose that we constitutionally guarantee certain inviolable rights, which ultimately led to our Charter of Rights and Freedoms (since our Charter is part of our constitution, it is - again, in theory and with exceptions - supreme over other laws). He's also now widely recognized as the "father" of universal health care in Canada. He helped to accomplish and realize these two important (and many would consider essentially Canadian) feats without his party ever forming government at the federal level.

This is the power of choice in politics. This is an illustration of effective political activism on the part of social democratic supporters in the mid-90s. In Canada, at least, our expectation is that government will step in place to address the power asymmetry that arises between the industry and the consumer when competition in the markets fails.

(Aside. What happens when competition in government fails and there's a significant power asymmetry between politicians and citizens?)

Finally getting to my on-topic points. Now, again, I have little k

Re:Indian Copyright Bill

[Hognoxious]

Bollywood "creates" nearly twice as many films as Hollywood

You were 100% correct to put the scare quotes there.

Re:Indian Copyright Bill

[bhagwad]

Even now, any Indian would wet themselves at the prospect of being able to work in America

You obviously don't know too many Indians. I'm an Indian and stayed in the US for over a year. My wife and I had to fight to return to India - she almost had to threaten to quit her job unless she was sent back. So no - not everyone wants to go and settle in a foreign land.

Re:Indian Copyright Bill

[BJ_Covert_Action]

Why do you think we yanks rose to world power status so quickly, relatively speaking? From the Revolutionary War all the way up through WWII we still had to work hard, and we didn't put up with much bullshit. =P

However, as a society grows and prospers, it becomes easier to survive by doing less. Nowhere else in the world, right now, can someone have so much comfort for so little an effort as in the USA. Thus, more folk are raised with less work ethic. More folk migrate to the prosperous society where they don't have to work hard. The ratio of folk that work hard and contribute to the growth of society vs. those who don't, decreases overall, and great nations crumble. This has happened hundreds of times in history before. One day, maybe, we'll learn how to outgrow such a lame habit.

Re:Indian Copyright Bill

[thePig]

I accept I was in the wrong to classify Western Cultures as not being family oriented. It was as bad, or even worse - as the OP telling all Indians would wet themselves in the prospect of going to US.
What I wanted to actually say was that -as per Jared - developing economies and even hunter-gatherer cultures seems to be as happy or even happier than people in developed economies due to other things which usually does not come in to picture.
When I tried to explain it, it came out wrong. My bad.

Re:Indian Copyright Bill

[Jiro]

I'm fairly sure that, having seen what the Mumbai slums look like, that they're about as awesome as being homeless.

Look at that little footnote indicated by the *. "Unless they are in poverty."

That's the footnote that swallows the rule. Mumbai slums are already being excluded.

Of course developing countries are great if you're not in poverty--the problem with developing countries is that there is a lot more poverty in the first place. And if you're not part of it, you can take advantage of it via cheap prices, cheap labor, etc.

Re:Indian Copyright Bill

[perryizgr8]

producing little creative output(in before Slumdog)

why would you make such an uninformed/ignorant statement?
from the wikipedia article on 'bollywood':

Bollywood is the largest film producer in India and one of the largest centers of film production in the world.

and slumdog was hardly an indian production. all the money was american.

Re:Indian Copyright Bill

[calmofthestorm]

I think that all people in poverty would wet themselves to get out of it is the take-home lesson here. But I'm sure there's at least one exception.

Re:Indian Copyright Bill

[perryizgr8]

Also, please consider that what you consider as happiness might not be the only scale with which others measure theirs.

Correct Raj. Having more shopping malls is not a measure of development and progress. More people eating in McDonalds and KFC doesn't make India a happy nation. For India, happiness is mostly achieved by living together in family. You share your success and failures with family and lots more. It's more of a social issue rather than eating in subway or KFC.

you can't say that on behalf of the whole of india. i am an indian and those exact things (kfc, mcd, malls) make me happy. i hate the family culture here, it is just too full of hypocrisy. and believe me, most of my peers think like this too. i suspect people like you are in the minority.

Re:Indian Copyright Bill

[zullnero]

No offense, but allow me to state a very simple reply to you and anyone else who dribbles on and on with nationalistic pride about things that ultimately don't matter as much as simply wanting to live where you grew up and your family and friends are:

It sucks everywhere. Remember that above everything else, and it will make you a better person to everyone else.

Re:Indian Copyright Bill

[megrims]

But perhaps I'm just being a closed-minded ethnocentric pig.

Nail, on the head.

There's very little purpose to the 'my culture is better than your culture' rant, and this was one of the less reasonable ones that I've seen.

Re:Indian Copyright Bill

[Darkman, Walkin Dude]

Not a bother, and well spoken sir. Ireland in particular was rated as the happiest country on earth in 2005 by the Economist for exactly those reasons you mentioned - family and cultural qualities.

Re:Indian Copyright Bill

[perryizgr8]

avg monthly income is Rs3700.
M$ Windows 7 Professional is Rs9000
M$ Office 2007 Home and Student is Rs2700
so os+spredsheet is 4times the average monthly income.

Re:Indian Copyright Bill

[camcorder]

What's the problem of this kind of American, is thinking that everything they see in movies are for real. Hope you're detached to Avatar soon. You're just living on a virtual baloon that, every while and then it bursts and you sit on your back. What's worrying about this is that others have to pull you up. When they decide not to do that I'm pretty sure you'll see what the real life is. If you can't afford to visit India, then why don't you just STFU and comment on other European countries, where you visited. Ah, if you're unhappy that Indian workers gets your job, then move your fat a** and work harder to get this job back, don't whine.

Re:Indian Copyright Bill

[thePig]

Sorry, if my previous mail looked too nationalistic. I am a person who wants to be a global citizen in my views; even though I dont succeed all the time.

I completely agree that it sucks to live in most places - esp if you are quite poor. What I was just trying to say in my original post was that there are many other things which people do not consider when they ponder about happiness. I myself was not aware of it until I read Jared. So, I was just trying to put it forward.

Again, sorry if my mail looked like I was being too nationalistic. I myself wants to come to US for Ph.D in say 4-5 years, because I consider the educational institutions in US much better than that of India. So, as you can see, my intent was not to disparage US or not to put India in a pedestal. Just that different countries have different positives and negatives.

Re:Indian Copyright Bill

[Anonymous Coward]

It's also worth noting that we've had, what, 3 successive minority governments in Canada over the last several years -- i.e. where the party in power does not have majority control over parliament. We're always told by the main parties (especially the governing ones) that minority governments are bad, but, honestly, it has meant that all the parties have to get along reasonably well because of an interesting balance. On one hand they have to make deals with the parties in opposition to them (bad), and on the other hand if the governing party falls because of a non-confidence vote (basically they can't get along anymore), they would have to face a new election which the Canadian people emphatically DO NOT WANT (worse). It's the one thing that Canadians agree on -- we do not want another election simply because our politicians fail to get along. The politicians are trapped up there in Ottawa, forced to get along, because they know that any party that precipitated an election without really good reasons would take a substantial beating at the polls. If the governing party tries to push something through that is unpopular -- bad idea. If the opposition parties try to oppose something for petty reasons -- also a bad idea. The government business is still happening, but the government in power has to be more responsive to public opinion and opposition views than normal. I love it.

The relevance to the issue here is instructive: there have been 2 tries to revised copyright law to make it compatible with the WIPO treaty. Both tries have included awful or botched versions of DMCA-like legislation (e.g., granting rights on one hand but making them impossible to legally exercise because of anti-circumvention rules). One was with a Liberal minority government, the other with a Conservative minority government. The public outrage has grown stronger each time, and both bills died on the order table (essentially: presented to parliament but not passed). If we had had a majority government either of those times I'm sure the bills would have been rammed through and we would have had DMCA-style copyright law in Canada. Minority government is the main reason we still don't have DMCA-style anti-circumvention laws in Canada.

So, don't dread >2-party systems, just make sure the politicians understand that they have to get along or you'll take it out of them at the polls. These systems work fine when the usual requirement is there: a public that holds them accountable. When all you do is flip between one or the other of 2 options, that's harder, but having a third party that is NOT the governing party still means they can have a major amount of influence. They don't have to "win" to matter a great deal.

Re:Indian Copyright Bill

[Anonymous Coward]

I agree that Indian workers tend to perform very poorly.

Having said that, they are far from lazy. They are highly motivated and very committed to their jobs.

Re:Indian Copyright Bill

[vertinox]

How much political activism will be enough to sway either the Democrats or Republicans into supporting copyright reform that allows for such fair use/dealing? How can you be politically effective? Can you even be politically effective (especially if you don't have some strong populist message/position, as is the case with copyright reform at this point in time)?

That's an easy question to answer...

"How much money do you have?"

No amount of protest or activism here will change a politicians mind on either side of the aisle, but a lobbyist will.

Re:Indian Copyright Bill

[prefec2]

You really think so? I guess you never lived in a developing country. They are not all poor there are "first world" communities close to "third world" communities. Society concepts are also in the move. And they are in many cases progressive transformations (but there are exceptions). Beside many other effects, this means that "so called creative" jobs are also offered in India or South Africa or Brasilia. The only jobs which are cannot be offshored are services and construction. For example doctors or teachers or plumbers are required to be where they are needed. Their job cannot be shipped around the world as long as there are houses to fix, children to teach and patients to be cured.

Also in a few years. India will have more "creative people" to work on their "intellectual property" that they will literally outsmart the so called West (including the US, EU, Australia, and Canada). Therefore it would be wise not to grab on our property right now like hell and alienate everyone on the globe. It would be more wise to start sharing and establish a culture of sharing. Yes ok that will not work very well for the "content industry", but there are bigger things on stake than the "content industry".

BTW: In the early days of the US, the US had no copyright law. That allowed US-publishers to print European books without paying anything. But now when you have a lot of "intellectual property" in the US, there is such law. India is doing quite the same. Hopefully they will be not so greedy and establish copyright rules like Western Countries are doing right now.

You already have slums in the US. They will grow automatically in the same way the developing countries get stronger. However, there is one option to get out of this. We should start to be cooperative. Competition is only leading to egoism. And egoism is not helping in future (actually it is not helping today, but we will feel the effects of that philosophy in future). We have really big problems on this globe for example we have to move away from dangerous and unsustainable technologies and processes. We have to change our transportation system our energy system our food production so we can feed 7 or more billion people without destroying the biosphere. Therefore we need cooperative concepts.

Re:Indian Copyright Bill

[Anonymous Coward]

"Having seen what the Mumbai slums look like" -- where? In a movie?

The poor in Mumbai aren't all beggars waiting for a handout. Dharavi in Mumbai is the largest slum in Asia, but it is also one of the most productive places in the city, generating a revenue of a billion dollars a year.

Also 85% of its households have a television.

Re:Indian Copyright Bill

[prefec2]

I would agree with your assessment on the topic of what is important for humans in life. Yes it is families and friends. In short other humans who care about each other. I do not live in the US right now, so I will not comment on their lifestyle. I live in Germany. And there we have right now two tendencies in our society. First the wave of exaggerated individualism, which also is linked to the concept of consuming as much as you can in short "I am what I own". On the other hand people are largely upset because they cannot live in families or other social groups anymore, because the economic system forces them to split up parents. And because they are so unhappy about this development, they try other concepts. For example the concept of family as a one or two parents + kids construct is widened to be a n-parents + m-kids relationship. Even though it is not a state supported structure, it is a concept used by parents. Also many parents send their kids to nursery and kindergarden not only so the parents can go to work, but to give the kids the chance to have contact with a lot of kids of their age. Something which existed in my youth in a different way, we just met at the playground or I walked over to my friends place. A thing which is not so easy anymore, as the distances grew. The funny thing is. Germans want to live in an egalitarian society, however they elected a neo-liberal party for the government.

Re:Indian Copyright Bill

[brunes69]

I take it you have never lived in Western Europe... where it is standard to have university payed for, 6-8 weeks mandatory vacation, national strong unions, free health care, and a social safety net large enough to hold a blue wale if you do in fact get fired.

Re:Indian Copyright Bill

[rjiy]

You're just showing you/your friends' shortsightedness/arrogance. Just being in the West does not automatically mean you lose all family and relationships. In fact, one could say the West enjoys usually a much more mature and nuanced set of relationships than India which is still struggling to come to terms with even basic sexuality. All that in addition to freedom and independence _from_ society if you want it, makes the West quite attractive to certain types of people. This has a direct correlation with creativity, the sort that can build an iPod or a Google search engine. You/your friends just see that top of the societal iceberg and proclaim its shallowness not realizing the history and the grandeur of ideas underlying it, stretching back to the Romans and Greeks.

IMO, the youth in India is being misled by the cry of development of infrastructure/technology thinking that's what will make them great, that merely adopting the outward look-n-feel of the West (better roads/taller buildings/more cars) is sufficient while ignoring wholesale the foundations that enabled the West to build those things and then improve on them. I think India can have modern facilities sure enough but it will not have modern people. The West for all its faults will still bear the burden of giving this world a direction.

Re:Indian Copyright Bill

[Anonymous Coward]

i suspect people like you are in the minority.

no he's not .. I'm with him and I'm an Indian too. That makes two of us and you are just one :P

I say that after having lived in the US for 3 years. Sure it's good money.. and life is just easy out there. But man does it get lonely... made me realize something must be wrong with me. No .. I was just in the wrong place.

Americans are just different. Unless you are brought up there, you can't be happy with people there...do you know what I'm saying? Or maybe you'll get used to it after living for 10 years. I've always wondered why there are lot of depressed people in America. Now I know.

Re:Indian Copyright Bill

[stifler9999]

While I agree with you totally, you've only listed 7 of the 8 dance genres.

Re:Indian Copyright Bill

[TheRaven64]

The "creates" definitely deserves the quotes. Some Bollywood films are really superb, but a lot are painfully derivative right down to the dialog being lifted word for word (then translated) from Hollywood films. Mind you, the same can probably be said for a lot of Hollywood's "creative" output.

Re:Indian Copyright Bill

[TheRaven64]

These numbers are skewed somewhat, because the average incomes include the people who can't afford a computer either.

Re:Indian Copyright Bill

[TheRaven64]

For example doctors or teachers or plumbers are required to be where they are needed

There have been trials run over the past few years where surgery was conducted via a remote link, with haptic feedback, from an entirely different continent. A typical bomb disposal robot has more manual dexterity that a plumber needs - they're too expensive now to waste on that kind of thing, but in ten years?

In short, don't be too surprised if it becomes cheaper to have a remote operator of a local robot than a local person for a lot of these tasks. And from there it's not a big step to replacing the remote operator for each robot with a remote operator for a dozen slightly more automated robots, and then getting rid of the person altogether.

Re:Indian Copyright Bill

[TheRaven64]

Keep in mind that all of these stories are from off-shoring efforts that are awarding contracts to the lowest bidder. If you work at the kind of company that takes these contracts in India, and you are above average, you quickly get head hunted by one of the better ones. If you are above average there, then you realise that you can move out of India for a few years, then return having made enough to retire by your mid 30s. The result is that you end up with companies full of highly motivated people who aren't competent enough to get a better job, taking contracts from foreign companies (who typically don't have any process in place to assess competence before hiring them), and doing a bad job. You can easily find similar levels of incompetence in the USA or EU (just see the daily WTF for countless examples), but these people are much less likely to be hired because they will be interviewed in person.

Re:Indian Copyright Bill

[Anonymous Coward]

> Even now, any Indian would wet themselves at the prospect of being able to work in America.

Unless he has already been to the US. Most talented people are returning now.

Re:Indian Copyright Bill

[unity100]

and mcdonalds and kfc alleviate hypocrisy, how ?

Re:Indian Copyright Bill

[Dr_Barnowl]

Why do you think we yanks rose to world power status so quickly, relatively speaking?

A clean-slate advantage, vast tracts of relatively unpopulated land and natural resources, coupled with a rapidly advancing technology base?

Re:Indian Copyright Bill

[perryizgr8]

i dont think i will ever be able to go to the us. I just dont work hard enough to get into a good college.

Re:Indian Copyright Bill

[aynoknman]

I read one anecdote after another about terrible performance from Indian web designers, programmers, call center workers, etc.

One can prove anything by anecdote, even one after another.

Re:Indian Copyright Bill

[perryizgr8]

yes i did not think about that. That would make a HUGE difference. The divide between the poor and middle class is humongous.

Re:Indian Copyright Bill

[Kjella]

Just working hard in itself means very little, I'm sure the Soviet plan economists managed to get people to work but when you take away everything else it doesn't really matter. It's not that I work 40 hours a week (including lunch break) and have 5 weeks vacation that will be our downfall as long as we work smarter and leverage technology. Besides, with enough wealth I think all people will want to do more with life as per Maslow's pyramid.

What creates the huge waves of rising and falling nations is that there's actually a small segment of the population that defines the relative wealth. A retail clerk or waiter or hairdresser makes vastly different wages throughout the world even though they perform essentially the same service, which is again reflected in prices and cost of living through a complex system of passing the money around that we call "the economy". But that part is equal all over the world, everywhere hairdressers and waiters and retail clerks and many more provide services to each other. Who are the differentiators?

I think you saw during the financial crisis, suddenly many export industries and rich stock owners were losing huge amounts of money and stopped pumping it into the US economy. And suddenly none of the retail clerks and waiters and hairdressers had money to pass around and the whole circle unwinded with falling property prices, increasing unemployment and lower wages. Ultimately you can build as many Wal-Marts that you want and everyone there can work as hard as tney'd like, but they'll all be caught in those same waves.

The US is living dangerously off the value of the dollar as an international instrument, because the US is growing dangerously thin on things it provides that are worth something to anyone else. The US wants lots of things from China. China doesn't care what services Americans provide to other Americans. What can China get from the US? Right now it can get a lot for US dollars, but that's because other countries want dollars. If everybody starts questioning the dollar, the US hasn't seen nothing yet...

Re:Indian Copyright Bill

[Anonymous Coward]

I have absolutely noticed this, even within my own family. Wealthy, well-off people have the time and luxury to care about nonsense. Gay marriage, abortion, global warming, the only ones that care are the ones with $50k+ per year salaries. The rest of us simply don't care.

Re:Indian Copyright Bill

[SpeedyDX]

Significant correction: I meant the mid-1900s, not the mid-90s. Tommy Douglas was quite dead and thus didn't have much political influence by the time the 90s rolled around.

Re:Indian Copyright Bill

[h00manist]

we put up with so much malarky it's sickening.

Legal Malarkey(c) is great business if your neighbors are Americans, have money and follow the Law(c), but not if they are poor and don't know or have much laws. Then it's better to teach them programming and export electrons to people with Money, and Legal Malarkey(c). Legal Malakey(c) is a products registered of exclusive rights. Copyright by US Global Marines Peace Media Theater Services Corporation. Legal Malarkey is licensed for production and sales for export by Walt McDonald, Mac Disney, Coca Electric and other American, Peaceful, Democratic Corporations. Shush up and watch (c).

Re:Indian Copyright Bill

[h00manist]

OS + Spreadsheet cost is equal to the average monthly income.

Brazil--
Average national monthly wage 2008 was apparently R$1515
Monthly wages of many young people around here that I know R$600
Windows 7 Home Premium price R$ 267,00
Office 2007 Home Win32 Port Fpp R$ 199,00

That situation has changed though. Until a few years ago wages were about R$100 lower, WinXP was around R$450, Office was around R$900. Don't know if the piracy situation will change, but I believe so, Microsoft is agressively (as always) bringing in low priced options, I believe mostly because OpenOffice and Linux started to be considered- and actually used - by a few people as a legalization alternative.

Re:Indian Copyright Bill

[h00manist]

Yes the "average national income" in some places means little. In India and Brazil, the middle class is not that big, most are either wealthy or poor. Average actually doesn't represent very big numbers of people.

Re:Indian Copyright Bill

[Anonymous Coward]

Agreed. I'm Brazilian, and I'm leaving an american multinational for a public job. I'll make 80% of what I make today, and half of what I was offered to stay. I had excellent evaluations (top one in the team) in the last years, and I have excellent prospects of career growing. Still, I'm leaving, because free time, personal life and family means way more to me than money and career. In the new job, I'll be limited in career grow, but I'll not have yearly stresses due to economy, reestructuring and transformation, that in fact are just blatant lies corporations use to justify laying people off to increase gains.

Please don't think i'm some idiot anti-american... Like you, I have several friends there. I'm anti-american-corporate-view, that is basically "let's make money and screw the rest". And I'm sure I'll be a lot happier with less money but more life!

Re:Indian Copyright Bill

[man1sh]

i am an indian and those exact things (kfc, mcd, malls) make me happy

Am never talking about family hypocrisy. Sure every country has it's negative points.

SO you want to say that it's KFC which keeps you happy? Strange. Humans are meant to be social animals. Esp most Indians prefer spending some time with their family for pleasure rather than going to KFC for same

What I wanted to say that KFC,McD can make you happy if you like it, but unless you have a family, get some time to share your happiness and sorrows with them, you can't be happy for long (valid for most people)

On a side note, doesn't malls make you sick? I mean I have seen/gone to so many malls that now every mall looks fuckin same with same shops arranged in different ways and the hotness of girls who visit these malls keeps on changing.

Re:Indian Copyright Bill

[tsm_sf]

Of course developing countries are great if you're not in poverty

If your definition of "great" includes living in a walled community. I've seen the circumstances several expat friends live in, and while their salaries go much, much farther they also are basically forced into a mode of living that I don't think many of us would enjoy. I truly think that one of the average American's strengths is a naive fixation on middle-class sensibilities.

(portions of the east coast of America exempt from these observations, naturally)

Re:Indian Copyright Bill

[man1sh]

the middle class is not that big,

Citation please? AFAIK it's exactly the opposite. Wealthy make a small fraction, then poor and most are in middle class. It is middle class which is the major consumer of everything in India.

Re:Indian Copyright Bill

[nashv]

Please do read a book by Gregory David Roberts called 'Shantaram' to know how the Mumbai slums are different from being homeless.

Re:Indian Copyright Bill

[Anonymous Coward]

Parent is a complete and utter troll. Do not feed.

Re:Indian Copyright Bill

[crazyvas]

[...]all that's left of America's economy will be its creative content.

Ahaha. Hahahahah. Aehehehhothoohohehehehehrhhaaaaaa! whohahahawiahhehehaaa! Too funny. You think America's most valuable treasure (and that too, when comparing to India) is its creative content. Hahahahah. Aehehehhothoohohehehehehrhhaaaaaa! whohahahawiahhehehaaa! Hahahahahhaa!

Re:Indian Copyright Bill

[prefec2]

When we get there. We have 2/3 of people out of work. We should really think of a new economic system, because the current cannot handle such situations in a way which is healthy for most humans. And you cannot train all these humans to become knowledge workers. Statistics show that only 1/3 of the population is capable of performing complex logic required for research in natural sciences, computer science, mathematics, and analytical social sciences. One part of them could be "nurses" who pamper old people or kids or other people in need.

But this is a general problem. If you can replace a plumber by a machine and a butcher or a doctor with a robot able to operate more accurately then these jobs will be lost. Not only in the US but everywhere on the globe. Even if it may take more time in developing countries.

Re:Indian Copyright Bill

[Anonymous Coward]

Hence the expression - "Ignorance is bliss"

Re:Indian Copyright Bill

[fluffernutter]

Regarding Hollywood's originality these days:

Avatar and Pocahantus.

Get my point?

Re:Indian Copyright Bill

[Anonymous Coward]

I am very reluctant to believe that Indians are somehow inherently "better workers" than Americans.

Remember who is telling you that.
The ones that tell you the Indians are bad and lazy are usually US workers, directly threatened by outsourcing.
There _might_ be a little bias there.

Re:Indian Copyright Bill

[Blakey Rat]

Still, India has a lot less of a stake in those matters than we do -- they're one of the developing economies getting all of the decent jobs, producing little creative output(in before Slumdog).

Wow, that's like a home run of ignorance. You've literally never heard of Bollywood? India produces more film than possibly any other country... they definitely have the US beat.

Re:Indian Copyright Bill

[ignavus]

You have two choices: right or left? And most of the rest of the world doesn't consider your left-wing choice to even fall left of centre of their respective political spectra.

Or as a relative of mine puts it: "America has two parties: a right wing party and a righter-wing party."

Re:Indian Copyright Bill

[oliverthered]

Are you using a capitalist model to define poverty or some other kind of model.

For instance there are much higher rates of mental health problems in so called developed countries, that's a strong indicator that there is in-fact a much higher level of poverty in areas where it actually makes your life better, such as happiness.

I believe that western countries are actually significantly poorer (maybe not in capitalist terms) and there;s a lot of evidence to back that up. Our gross contribution to global warming is also increasing poverty around the globe as is our resource hungry lifestyle. A lifestyle in which ownership and having the next best thing is the way in which happiness is achieved, but we don't appear to be doing very well on that front.

Re:Indian Copyright Bill

[perryizgr8]

they dont alleviate hypocrisy, they let me avoid it.

Re:Indian Copyright Bill

[perryizgr8]

...and the hotness of girls who visit these malls keeps on changing.

man you've got to visit high standard malls to see hot girls. have you gone to great india place in noida?

Re:Indian Copyright Bill

[Grumbleduke]

Copyright legislation like this are of a kind of recognition that media content should not play purely by free market rules.

Just a little comment here, but isn't legislation like this (which reduces the scope of copyright) actually making the market more free? Copyright is what locks up the market in the first place by giving the copyright owner the total (legal) monopoly on distributing certain content. If I want to watch a film I have the choice between paying the copyright owner via a cinema, or paying the copyright owner via a DVD/VHS store. While I can go to a different store or cinema which might allow me to "get a better deal", I have no choice over the "base price" set by the copyright owner - something that becomes particularly apparent with services like iTunes, from what I have seen.

Anyways, please don't mistake relaxing copyright law for legislative intervention to protect a market.

Disclaimer: I am not an economist/business student/whatever - I'm a mathematician and Pirate (not pirate with a little p, but Pirate with a big P - as in a member of the political movement).

Re:Indian Copyright Bill

[BJ_Covert_Action]

A clean-slate advantage,

...which they had to fight and work hard for. Otherwise they would have just been Brits a long way from home.

vast tracts of relatively unpopulated land and natural resources

...which they had to explore, settle, cultivate, and discover. All of this took hard work, a pioneering spirit, and a tenacity reminiscent of legends.

coupled with a rapidly advancing technology base?

...which advanced rapidly due to the hard work, sharp cunning, long hours, and high levels of gumption that the Americans poured into it. Technology only begets more technology if people are willing to work hard on existing systems.

I am not disagreeing with you, merely reaffirming my original point. One of the defining factors of success of the Yanks was their willingness to break their backs working hard to earn a free existence. A man or woman that has earned their existence through such work, doesn't put up with bullshit from anyone, friend or foe. The pride that comes from such accomplishments assures this. As such, America was given the opportunity to prosper and rise to power because the individuals that settled this country worked hard and stood by their works proudly.

Re:Indian Copyright Bill

[loneDreamer]

The key I think is to accept that we need to work less, but when we do, work hard. Since what you say is essentially true, I'd settle for decreased quantity instead of decreased quality.

Third!

[rxan]

Could it be true?

A surprisingly well thought out law

[Fallen Kell]

Seriously, if the description given here is what it truly does, then this seems like a good law. Now if only the USA government would pass something like this which would put some balance back into copyright. The breaking of DRM only being illegal when you break copyright, and with it legal to make personal copies, it means people are free to break the DRM of things they bought, like making a backup copy of a movie, or ripping a movie for use on a HTPC without the need of the DVD in the HTPC (or blu-ray, or itunes songs, etc., etc.). Because all you are doing is using the item that you purchased for yourself, and you are free to use it in any way that you want, not simply the way that the copyright owner thinks you should be able to use it.

Re:A surprisingly well thought out law

[fm6]

Not surprising if you realize that third-world countries are badly hurt by IP hoarding. It means they have to pay too much for books, technology, drugs, etc., unless they choose to pirate — which, of course, they often do.

I'm particularly grateful to India for their knockoff drugs. I don't understand all the legalities, but because of the difference in the way patents work in India, it's perfectly legal to reverse-engineer a patented drug and invent your own process for making it. In 2005, they changed the law so that patent holders can force makers of such unauthorized generics to pay royalties, but they still can't stop them altogether, the way they can in the U.S. As a result, unauthorized Indian generics are available for many drugs still under patent, at extremely low prices.

This affected me personally a few years back when I was unemployed, close to broke, and needed to be using a fairly expensive drug on a daily basis. It was particularly galling that the original patent on the drug had expired, but the company had managed to create new patents on the manufacturing process that still gave them exclusive rights. Fortunately, the same drug was available from India for a fraction of the cost. The downside was that my phone was obtained by various mercenary Indian call centers, possibly including the one you saw in Slumdog Millionair.

Re:A surprisingly well thought out law

[DeadPixels]

It almost seems too simple, like any moment now we're going to find out about the secret clause authorizing the use of deadly force.

It's almost like common sense! When you purchase a product, you own it and can use it how you wish, with the only restriction being that you can't duplicate it and sell it to someone else. So if I purchase a DVD, I'm free to put that DVD on my laptop if I want to watch the film on a long flight without being considered a criminal. It's so simple and obvious, you have to wonder why it hasn't caught on elsewhere.

Re:A surprisingly well thought out law

[Anonymous Coward]

Not surprising if you realize that third-world countries are badly hurt by IP hoarding. It means they have to pay too much for books, technology, drugs, etc., unless they choose to pirate — which, of course, they often do.

The prices for which Western-made goods that are sold there are much lower than what they are here since when companies know that the consumers there simply cannot afford Western prices, they lower them (a lot) since they can because their profit margins in the West are so high. And that is why all copyright holders want region-encoding since it makes price discrimination possible - a legal copy that is sold for less in India, cannot be played back in the West, where the prices on legal copies are much higher. Now, one strategic management textbook I have explained price discrimination very well but it was ironic since it was such a low-priced copy and therefore also had a disclaimer that the publisher had not granted permission for it to be sold in (long list of Western countries) because it was an inexpensive copy "published for the benefit of students", which of course those who read the book could conclude was BS.

SuddenOutbreakOf...

[heretic108]

Hmm, lemme see... wise and profound old culture, who invented our modern numbering system over 2000 years ago, writes a copyright law in the 21st century addressing contemporary technology issues, and gets it substantially right.

Why am I not surprised?

Re:SuddenOutbreakOf...

[spiffmastercow]

Your sig reminds me of my Programming I class, where the prof required a paragraph of documentation for every function. I did a rip off of Genesis much like yours. I was disapointed when I got my print out back that she never even bothered to read it.

Re:SuddenOutbreakOf...

[nbharatvarma]

Disclaimer : I am an Indian.

I didn't want to respond, but I thought a bit of a perspective might help.

You know, there is a constant attempt to try and get rid of this problem. The solution to this problem is education and education is only now showing signs of improvement. As the GP mentioned, India has a very old culture and only in the last 50 years or so the country has been trying to get rid of this problem. Looking at the progress we made, we should be able to eradicate most of it in another 50 years.

Can you say the same of other countries ? It is not that long ago that the U.S. managed to mostly solve apartheid. How long did that take since the country gained its independence ? 200 years ? The U.S. by and large was made of immigrants. That means those guys went through hardships and came to the U.S. You would think they would have minimum common sense of how to treat other people. That didn't work out very well for colored people, did it ?

Humans are by and large animals. The only solution is education. Education takes time.

Re:SuddenOutbreakOf...

[Anonymous Coward]

I am really tried of hearing this repeated on Slashdot. Let me make this clear... the caste system was made illegal more than 50 years ago, and it has literally became non-existent about 20-30 years. I myself was born in what would have been considered lower caste a few decades ago. I have never felt any of the oppression or any dam thing you could come up with (though some of the relatives have enjoyed the special reservations available in top schools, claiming to be from backward castes)

The caste system originally denoted the field of work you were in. Which is broadly Kings/Warriors, Priests, Traders/Agriculturalist, Artists/Service_Providers. If you are born to a potter, you will learn the art of pottery right from your childhood from your father. This was all the system was all about.

This was very recently twisted to classify low wage earning people into untouchables. This was nothing more than abuse of power by certain sects of the society, which mostly has returned to normal.

Re:SuddenOutbreakOf...

[Anonymous Coward]

Quoting the "facts" from the World Fact book your mother bought you 15 years ago? Or just pissed at some Indian stealing your job?

Re:SuddenOutbreakOf...

[Anonymous Coward]

yes, a profound culture that still enforces a cast system, which says if you are born to a family that eats rats, that's all your ever allowed to be. one that uses child labour and has an active human slave trade.

It's quite apparent you don't live in India and go by what you read someplace about history, because not much of this is true today.

'Backward castes' of yester-year have outrageous affirmative action rights in India today. There is reservation in every sector for them regardless of their performance. People from these so called historical 'backward classes' are among the richest in India. You have a 'forward caste' student who works hard at his studies, but can't get into a college because a good percent of seats are reserved for 'backward classes' regardless of their performance. Reservation was probably necessary many decades ago, but not in this country today. But still these castes want more, because it suits them.

When you have a leader of backward classes spending state money to build and protect statues of herself, and wearing money garlands worth millions of dollars made of 1000 rupee notes, you know how good it has become.

But I post this anonymously, because it isn't politically correct to speak ill of affirmative action, or party leaders.

Please stop talking badly about the caste system in India. It may exist in some rare cases, but is not the general way of life now.

And I don't think anyone is forced to eat rats in India. I hope not :) I don't think so many rats are available to feed the populace.

Use of child labour is unfortunately true in some places, especially for domestic work. Child labour is illegal in law. If you know of any instances of child labour taking place, call 1098 in India and report it.

I'm surprised that you mention slave trade in India, because I have never heard of it. Still, if it exists, I don't think it would be any different than the numbers in other countries.

Note: I am an Indian citizen and have lived in this country for about 24 years. I love this country to bits for how this hard-earned freedom means something here. I didn't give up my citizenship for that of another commonwealth country, because my fundamental rights as a citizen here are worth more than anywhere else in the world. But I also feel sad for the state of some things in the country today.

Re:SuddenOutbreakOf...

[Anonymous Coward]

http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1629712&cid=31965118

Re:SuddenOutbreakOf...

[timmarhy]

I'm not saying India isn't trying or that it'll always be that way. but by your own admission the cast system still exists today, and it's a messed up part of Indian culture.

Re:SuddenOutbreakOf...

[Anonymous Coward]

http://yro.slashdot.org/story/10/04/23/177231/Economy-Tanked-While-Government-Surfed-Porn?art_pos=10

Re:SuddenOutbreakOf...

[Crysalim]

Disclaimer : I am an Indian.

I didn't want to respond, but I thought a bit of a perspective might help.

You know, there is a constant attempt to try and get rid of this problem. The solution to this problem is education and education is only now showing signs of improvement. As the GP mentioned, India has a very old culture and only in the last 50 years or so the country has been trying to get rid of this problem. Looking at the progress we made, we should be able to eradicate most of it in another 50 years.

Can you say the same of other countries ? It is not that long ago that the U.S. managed to mostly solve apartheid. How long did that take since the country gained its independence ? 200 years ? The U.S. by and large was made of immigrants. That means those guys went through hardships and came to the U.S. You would think they would have minimum common sense of how to treat other people. That didn't work out very well for colored people, did it ?

Humans are by and large animals. The only solution is education. Education takes time.

Wow, this is when I wish there was a special +6 rating for comments. Very well said.

Re:SuddenOutbreakOf...

[Darkman, Walkin Dude]

wise and profound old culture

Not too sure about the rest, but it certainly qualifies as old. Indian culture has no lessons to teach us that we haven't already learned, to be honest. Lets get that indoor plumbing thing sorted before we move on to cultural superiority hey?

Re:SuddenOutbreakOf...

[Anonymous Coward]

And India still has caste based racism. Don't that make us big hypocrites?
Indians do dream about US and west and they do go there to do stupid jobs, it is all about money and infrastructure.
But why is this discussion about greatness of India, why are we so sensitive.

Siju - Indian

Re:SuddenOutbreakOf...

[Anonymous Coward]

You big liar, caste based system is real and live in India, certainly less but not gone. These people still have it in their mind. The stupid Indian middle class wants to think India is perfect to satisfy their ego.

Caste based system and what happened to untouchables was worse kind of racism ever practiced. They were not even treated Human. Some indian hypocrites wants to ignore history.

Why are we discussing it here

Re:SuddenOutbreakOf...

[timmarhy]

I agree with everything he's said, but my original point stands, that India has huge cultural issues to over come and that it's old system the OP was in awe of sucked for most of it's population.

Re:SuddenOutbreakOf...

[timmarhy]

maybe it's illegal but that law sure isn't enforced. plenty of Indian immigrants here have told me about it.

Re:SuddenOutbreakOf...

[GreatBunzinni]

The U.S. by and large was made of immigrants. That means those guys went through hardships and came to the U.S. You would think they would have minimum common sense of how to treat other people.

Quite the contrary. The US started off as a place where no rules applied, where the law (and not justice) was dictated by whoever had the power, whether by violence or by economic control. The propaganda skit may have been "the land of opportunity" and "land of the free" but those propaganda bits are only useful to attract more naive, vulnerable people and then, once there, be in a position to be abused by the ones in power. After all, it's the land of opportunity because the absence of rules, the ones which force people to deal with others fairly and with respect, they weren't there. It was the land of the free because you were free to do onto others whatever crossed your mind and do it with impunity. So you had your massive influx of "tired and huddled masses" and when they arrived there they were forced to accept whatever working and living condition anyone saw fit to offer. There was no social security, there was no public healthcare service, there was no state-imposed labour justice. It was complete freedom, short of indentured service. It was the at-will philosophy doing it's job, the one which states that "or you willingly accept working 16 hour shifts for pennies or you get kicked out the door and find you and your kids homeless and starving".

And if you find yourself in such a destructive, abusive and dangerous climate where everyone is free to fuck over anyone if it's beneficial and profitable, then the only way you can move on top and stay on top is if you yourself take advantage of that very same freedom and find a way to profit by screwing other vulnerable people. It is said that you have to step over lots of people if you want to move up in life and if you find yourself desperately needing to move up then there was no better place than the land of opportunity and of the free. You enjoyed complete freedom to abuse other people as you saw fit and if helped your venture to be profitable.

And that leads us to your comment. There was a lot of hardship and there was a lot of injustice. There was and still is that way. The thing is, if you went through those hardships and you succeeded keeping yourself afloat or even succeeded moving up in life then you will not look kindly in others benefiting from social programs implemented by civilized groups with the aim of progressing. If you were forced to go through hardships, you will cringe if you saw people which would go through the same pains you went through benefiting from "free rides" and more opportunities than you. If you profited from abusing your equals then you will cringe if you saw the most vulnerable being offered opportunities to better themselves and break free from the same subservient life which you avoided, which you impose on others for your profit and which they would otherwise be forced to have.

In essence, whether you are the exploited one or the exploiter, you not only don't see the point in giving that "luxury treatment" to others. If you haven't benefited from it then why would you go through the trouble of freely providing it onto others? In fact, it is against your best interests. You know vulnerability, you lived through vulnerability and, more importantly, all you know is how moving up in life is only possible by exploiting that vulnerability. So, why would you even care if people are less vulnerable? You live in a egotistical culture, where the will of the individual outweighs the will of the collective. It's you who must move up in life, not the others. You don't provide those opportunities to others because you see it as giving the competition a leg up. And screw the competition, it's you who must come out ahead. Let them suffer to get a basic education, let them suffer to be able to hold a job, let them suffer if they have the bad luck of needing healthcare. The other's misfortune is just an opportunity for you to take advantage. So, why would you bother yourself eliminating that source of opportunity?

Re:SuddenOutbreakOf...

[professionalfurryele]

I love the way that we have now become so accustomed to bad copyright law that when one is written that is only a little bit absurdly unfair we heap praise on those authoring it. Copyright in India is still 60 years! And no work released with DRM on it should have copyright protection in the first place. The DRM violates the spirit of the social contract! It's the equivalent of publishing a patent written using whatever cypher was used to encode the Voynich manuscript.
This law is not good, it's just not as asinine as the ones we have to put up with in the West. Indian lawmakers deserve some credit for that as I'm sure international pressure on them was severe along with pressure from their own domestic media asshats, but don't lets pretend that this piece of crap legislation is 'good' just because it's a slightly less smelly turd that the one we have.

Re:SuddenOutbreakOf...

[digTro]

Caste system has been made illegal only in name, but is still practiced in a different form by the people in power. In fact it has become endemic to the entire administrative structure of the government. Pick any government office and I'll eat my shoe if you can't find caste politics at play.

Politicians do everything they can to keep people divided on caste lines so that come election time, they are guaranteed a certain percentage of votes. Instead of backing off affirmative action for under-privileged classes after they attain some economic freedom, as was originally intended at the time of writing of the Indian constitution, politicians work very hard at bringing in more people under affirmative action, to build up their voter base. Casteism is far from gone from India. It is just thriving in a different form.

Re:SuddenOutbreakOf...

[Anonymous Coward]

The cast system is still in power in US or Europe. You do have choices to choose your field of work but getting to higer class is much harder than ever. It is just very well hided with curtains and most people does not see it.

Todays higer class are big corporation CEO's, Senators, president etc. And you have very little changes to be a such. Only 0,01% has a change to be a higer class zitisen.

Re:SuddenOutbreakOf...

[supssa]

Thanks for the deep insight paki... maybe you should tell us next how great it is to live with your mom, dad and siblings until you are 50 as well.

Re:SuddenOutbreakOf...

[Anonymous Coward]

Here's an observation that my sister made when she was in the UK for a year which might help you put things into perspective.

We belong to a backward caste, a reality which never really struck us because that sort of culture simply wasn't visible around us. Through our entire life no one asked us what our caste was, but when my sister went to the UK, every Indian would, for some weird reason, ask her what her caste was and revel in the fact that they were a higher caste. The reason for this is that they know India as it was many years ago, when caste system was much more prevalent than it is today. Also, being away from home they have a tendency to cling on to their "roots".

As for the ground reality here in India, yes caste system is still a reality and also leads to murders in some places in the country. But it is about as bad as racism in any western country. So when you call caste system an evil thing in India that makes it an unfit culture to live in, it really becomes a case of the pot calling the kettle black.

Re:SuddenOutbreakOf...

[Nemyst]

To be honest from what I've read in your post and elsewhere, I think India is a lot better off than many other countries. At least you're moving forward whereas a good part of the "modern" and "developed" world is going backwards, let alone other developing countries.

Re:SuddenOutbreakOf...

[Anonymous Coward]

Humans are by and large animals. The only solution is education.

Or replacing everyone with a robot.

Re:SuddenOutbreakOf...

[Anonymous Coward]

This thread is about India, not about the USA.

Re:SuddenOutbreakOf...

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm not saying the US isn't trying or that it'll always be that way. but by your own admission racism still exists today, and it's a messed up part of American culture.

What's your point?

Re:SuddenOutbreakOf...

[Anonymous Coward]

Hmmm ... kind of like racism, wouldn't you say?

Re:SuddenOutbreakOf...

[Anonymous Coward]

Note: I am an Indian citizen and have lived in this country for about 24 years. I love this country to bits for how this hard-earned freedom means something here. I didn't give up my citizenship for that of another commonwealth country, because my fundamental rights as a citizen here are worth more than anywhere else in the world. But I also feel sad for the state of some things in the country today.

I too am an Indian citizen and agree with what you say. Though I too can easily give up my Indian citizenship at any point now, I choose not to do so because what that identity and rights afforded to me by my constitution mean to me.

I also believe that when people stop feeling sad for state of some things in their country, their countries politicians and greedy businessmen start hijacking everything.

As for the caste system, trust me, it does not exist. If it exists in any form, it is because of those affirmative action rights afforded to the "backward" castes, which leads to people without reservations and special rights having no fair access.

To all those who talk about India without actually investigating it deeply (and deeply not being from Wikipedia or forums), go visit the place. Go live there. You'll see why it is so great that I now know Americans, Europeans and Africans who would give anything to be able to live there, and be happy.

At least humanity still lives in the heart of the people from my nation.

Re:SuddenOutbreakOf...

[Donkey_Hotey]

Sounds strangely... familiar.

Re:SuddenOutbreakOf...

[Anonymous Coward]

To be honest from what I've read in your post and elsewhere, I think India is a lot better off than many other countries. At least you're moving forward whereas a good part of the "modern" and "developed" world is going backwards, let alone other developing countries.

My roommate, who happens to be from Ethiopia and lived in India, definitely thinks so. I left the US because I felt it was going backwards. I agree with you, but India still needs to move forward enough in some things before I could honestly take my skills back and live there. I would love that opportunity though.

Re:SuddenOutbreakOf...

[Anonymous Coward]

maybe it's illegal but that law sure isn't enforced. plenty of Indian immigrants here have told me about it.

Hey how about here in US the prejudices and discrimination that colored people still have to go through? When you bring up the caste system, why do Americans neatly forget their own black mark?

Sure you outlawed all of that in the 60s, but you still practice it. How many country clubs still pride themselves on being white-bre(a)d?

Re:SuddenOutbreakOf...

[Anonymous Coward]

> the cast system still exists today, and it's a messed up part of Indian culture.

Caste system, class system - what's the difference? Caste discrimination is illegal, btw (except for "positive discrimination" which is a another can of worms.

But you can't force lower castes to mix with upper castes in India any easier than lower class with upper class in the USA.

Re:SuddenOutbreakOf...

[pkphilip]

I am an Indian. It doesn't give me any joy to say this - in fact, it is with much shame that I have to admit that a lot of people are treated in a very inhumane fashion in India despite all the advances. As much as I would like to believe that the caste system in India is dead, I cannot delude myself into believing that. Caste oppression is still very common. Dalits (the lower caste and the erstwhile untouchables) are still very, very badly treated across most of the country.

From 22 April 2010:
http://www.siasat.com/english/news/two-dalits-burnt-alive

Feel free to search for more such news on the web. There are numerous reports each day on this sort of violence. Many temples in India still do not allow lower caste people from entering them - including some of the biggest temples in India. Again, please feel free to search the web for information on how the dalits have been prevented from entry into temples.

So while I am happy that you weren't mistreated despite belonging to a lower caste, I have to say that your experience isn't typical.

Re:say again!

[cosm]

So it's not illegle to to brake the copyright unless you break the copyright.

Firstly, there are so many things grammatically wrong with that statequestionment-sentence-rhetorical-grammarfuck. Secondly, what about accelerating it?

If it's true...

[The New Black]

maybe the US should outsource law-making for a day.

Re:If it's true...

[Anonymous Coward]

No thanks, I'd like to continue criticizing Gandhi for his racist attitudes towards Africans without getting beaten to a pulp by my local police.

Re:If it's true...

[Anonymous Coward]

Thats one hell of an allegation to make against Gandhi, do you have any sources for your claim? I sort of agree with your prediction though, if you were to proclaim this publicly in India, you would most definitely be beaten to death by the people, let alone being arrested/beaten by police.

Re:If it's true...

[Anonymous Coward]

So would some of us like to do with the christ guy you americans so much like.

Re:If it's true...

[Anonymous Coward]

Please point out any evidence that Jesus was a racist. There is plenty of evidence that Gandhi was a racist.

Re:If it's true...

[perryizgr8]

Thats one hell of an allegation to make against Gandhi, do you have any sources for your claim? I sort of agree with your prediction though, if you were to proclaim this publicly in India, you would most definitely be beaten to death by the people, let alone being arrested/beaten by police.

naah, nobody here gives a damn about gandhi.

Re:If it's true...

[Nyder]

So would some of us like to do with the christ guy you americans so much like.

please do.

Re:If it's true...

[aynoknman]

maybe the US should outsource law-making for a day.

I wonder why this is modded Funny, it strikes me as quite Insightful. One of the great tragedies of today is the global reach of the American Empire matched with its lack of introspection. However, if you look at previous empires, you wouldn't be surprised.

Re:say again!

[Anonymous Coward]

At what point did DRM become Copyright? The law says it's legal to brake the DRM, not the copyright.

RIAA/MPAA rhetoric aside, format-shifting is still fair use. So is making a backup. Thus making a copy of something is not always illegal...even in the Incorporated States of America.

What about ACTA ?

[ProdigyPuNk]

How will this effect future relations with ACTA countries ? Depending on the wording of ACTA, this could end up having a rather large effect since ACTA does not take the same stance as far as this goes...

Re:What about ACTA ?

[bbqsrc]

India is not involved with ACTA. Most of Asia is not involved with ACTA. ACTA will only affect the consumer as far as I can see, and it sucks.

Re:What about ACTA ?

[Luckyo]

Also, India isn't even involved in WIPO, ACTA's predecessor. This hasn't stopped RIAA and co from claiming that it infringes WIPO and shoving it on all kinds of black lists for that reason.
ACTA is mostly about western countries. Most of the developing countries are still coming to terms with WIPO, if they signed it.

Re:What about ACTA ?

[Theaetetus]

India is not involved with ACTA. Most of Asia is not involved with ACTA. ACTA will only affect the consumer as far as I can see, and it sucks.

What sucks about ACTA? Assuming that you're a US citizen, there will be no substantive changes to US law as a result of implementing ACTA. Every provision in it already exists in current copyright and trademark law. Now, if you're in a country with weak IP laws, like Brazil or Mexico, it has some major changes, but not here.

Re:What about ACTA ?

[Theaetetus]

Also, India isn't even involved in WIPO, ACTA's predecessor.

WIPO isn't ACTA's predecessor. Look at the names - one is an "Organization", the other is an "Act".
Second, India is a signatory to the treaties that are precursors to ACTA, notably the Berne and Paris Convention Treaties, as well as the Patent Cooperation Treaty.

Re:What about ACTA ?

[CondeZer0]

The US is planning to force other countries to accept ACTA as part of future trade deals, this will impact many Asian countries.

Not for long

[oldhack]

Imma get me "private personal" copies of bollywood movies.

Wonder why ...

[CalcuttaWala]

this is not such a big deal here in India ! strange that i had to hear it in ./ and not in the national press

Re:Wonder why ...

[AHuxley]

India has nothing to lose internally at this point.
Think back to pharma in India.
India needed cheap, quality drugs without the R and D backend to treat its population.
India did not have an export market for its own R and D, just the tech to produce very cheap drugs.
So India pumped out drugs for its needs and noted other countries wanted them too.
Suddenly what was an internal medical matter was a profit making dream.
With profit came R and D and finally India had its own big pharma.
Then came the fun part. India slipped from a free for all to a drug protecting world player with the international standing to enforce R and D.
The profits from internal use where looking to be less than the projected profits from new drugs to the protected world market.
Until India has their own exporting Adobe, MS, Apple ect, why pay for software on the international market?
All paying for very expensive imported software does is hurt the current account deficit.
Copy it for free, let your children and pros learn.
When India has a software exporting sector, then they will do the math for trade protection.

Re:Wonder why ...

[Anonymous Coward]

Am from (and in) India too. There was some news articles in the newspapers about the implications for physically challenged people - ex. eyesight challenged could convert to Braille but not to audio! Basically, the Left is against such a clause and so is the major opposition party - BJP. Most likely that clause will be modified.

From past experience, the Left (the communist parties) has a record of standing for digital rights of common people. They made a big ruckus about software patents and had it removed from the Patent reforms bill in 2005.

The reality is that whatever law we have, the implementation is abominably (or thankfully, if it suits you :-) ) lax. No matter what, I can have the latest 'Kollywood' (Chennai, the home of tamil movies) movie delivered at my home for about 20 rupees (about 50 cents).

Hence, the Indian public just does not care about these issues, because it doesn't 'concern' them :-)

my two paisa

Re:Wonder why ...

[perryizgr8]

you know why? because people here don't care what the law is. they do whatever they want to do. seriously, i don't think anyplace in the world has more lawlessness than here, except for maybe somalia.

Re:Wonder why ...

[perryizgr8]

Hence, the Indian public just does not care about these issues, because it doesn't 'concern' them :-)

exactly. people here do whatever they want to do. they drive on the wrong side of the road. they jump red lights. they cross the street when cars are approaching. they don't wear helmets/seatbelts. they steal electricity. they encroach on the street area in front of their house/shop. they pay 60% value of real estate in black money. they buy laptops without os and just get the local tech dude to install windows, office, flash, photoshop, modern warfare installed on it. they download songs on a MASSIVE scale and send it to everyone around them using bluetooth. seriously, the last time i bought a cd/dvd/vcd was in 1999, when the internet was only 56k.

Love love love! I'm in love with lovely Johnny!

[Reed Solomon]

Well there goes Bollywood.

watch India get put on an american copyright watch list now.

honesty

now a dance number

But...

[laughingcoyote]

There's always something, and this bill's got quite a "something" in it. This is India's very own version of our Mickey Mouse Copyright Perpetuation Act (ostensibly having something to do with Sonny Bono, but we all know who it really was for...), and extends a fixed 60-year term to life plus 60 (see sidebar here.

Why in the world would we want to see copyrights get longer, anywhere? They obviously already provide an incentive at current levels. Even ten years should be an adequate incentive for 99.9% of cases, and you never want to write law based on the edge cases. With digital distribution speeding up how quickly a work can have its initial distribution, copyright terms should be shrinking, not growing.

Re:But...

[Trogre]

Bollywood.

Re:But...

[dodobh]

Copyright is currently life + 52 years for literary works in India. The change is only for photography, and will probably be applied to everything with no exceptions.

Re:But...

[Jah-Wren Ryel]

and you never want to write law based on the edge cases.

I think you have that backwards - politicians salivate at the idea of writing laws based on the edge cases - PATRIOT Act, Megan's Law, Amber Alerts (and all the international derivates), drinking age of 21, drug possession "with intent to distribute" for drug quantities equivalent to that of a six-pack of beer - the list of these sorts of cockamamie laws that are aimed at exceptionally rare edge cases just goes on and on.

Re:But...

[DoofusOfDeath]

Why in the world would we want to see copyrights get longer, anywhere?

We don't. The problem is, we aren't very relevant to the making of this legislation.

Tolerance!, and an appreciation for freedom..

[qwerty8ytrewq]

This is such a great, simple resolution. The current copyright greed is out of control, based on a 'because we can' model. I was very inspired by http://www.ripremix.com/ . Changes in this stuff is essential for progress of global culture. Go India. PDF is here http://www.michaelgeist.ca/content/view/4974/196/ for those who want to look further.

Mayanasri

[mayanasri]

I am not at all surprised about this stuff MP3 Music Search Engine

Would copying this be illegal?

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm sure harbouring this sort of material is bound to break some law!

needs the "suddenoutbreak" tag

[MoFoQ]

I think it needs the "suddenoutbreak" tag.

I wonder if India is one of the countries in the ACTA thingie....

and what the NewYorkCountryLawyer has to say about it.

Re:needs the "suddenoutbreak" tag

[Requiem18th]

Except this was part of an expansion of power and coverage of copyright, it only looks benevolent from a western point of view.

Re:needs the "suddenoutbreak" tag

[Fishbulb]

I tried with "suddenoutbreakofganesh" but apparently it wasn't popular... :)

Anonymous Coward

[Anonymous Coward]

All too often, I see warez crazed users, advocating copying and distributing the software they bought, claiming they own it.

Sorry. You don't own it. You license it. There is a big difference.

I've yet to meet people who do actually own, private, non open source, IP, who want the entire warez crazed users of the world to copy and distributed their products willy nilly, without regard for where the copies go, end up, who has them, who is giving them away, etc.

If this "Lets all copy everything, because, its our God given right, because we p0wn DVD-R drives" insanity continues, its not going to be good for the production of high quality IP products.

As for India saying its okay to copy and distribute other peoples property, okay. Time to start copying all the high quality IP India produces, and giving it away for free.

Anyone know where I can find some ?

Already used in Finland

[Anonymous Coward]

The permissions what this bill give in India, is already in use (have be from the beginning) in Finland.

You are allowed to make few (3-10) copies from the copyrighted material what you have bought or you have by legal means.

You are allowed to crack the DRM if needed to get the material viewable or to be played.

You are even allowed to give maded copies to your family or your closest friends. But new copies from those copies are not permitted. They can not either share the copies to anyone else.
If the original is destroyed, lost or stolen. All the copies are needed to be destroyed.

Otherwise you are not allowed to crack the strong encryption.

Because Finland does not use Common Law, the law is based to moral and questions of ethic by every case. Defended questions for actions are always higer stage when it is about to questioning why something was done.

Example, you can brake the law to save someones life.

It is just too bad that U.S and UK kind sick mentality is overspreading slowly by the media and big corporations what wants to control everything. Still laws are well balanced, but have started to support more big companies like Nokia and their rights over the citizens.

Re:Already used in Finland

[Taibhsear]

If the original is destroyed, lost or stolen. All the copies are needed to be destroyed.

Um, doesn't that kind of blow the point of having a backup copy?...

Why make DRM breaking illegal at all?

[selven]

Making DRM breaking illegal only if you're breaking copyright is like making it illegal to use a gun if you're committing murder with it. The offense here is breaking copyright, which is already illegal, breaking DRM is just the means to the end.

this entire thread is mostly hyperbole and not...

[herojig]

This entire thread is mostly hyperbole and not relevant to the average Indian or anyone living in the region. There is very little, if any, copyright protection or enforcement, and if there is, it's because someone pissed someone off in higher places. Books, CDs, DVDs, full of programs, movies, songs, are cranked out perpetually and sold in the market for less then a buck a whack. No one cares really... really. The new law is trying to put a face on India, to show it a good corporate citizen, bla bla bla bla, but for all of us living in the area, we know it's a farce and most of us could care less. There are much more pressing matters at hand. Like electricity, clean water, decent food, etc. Allowing the masses to listen to their favorite bollywood diddle or watch the latest blockbuster on their cheap Chinese DVD for less then rs.30 is not something the goverment wants to be seen cracking down on. For businesses who want to load up on 100,000 USD of software for less then rs.1000 - no one cares - if they can bring in some rice, more power to them. China, Nepal, Bhutan, and some extent Thailand and surrounding countries operate in the same way...a blind eye to IP, and a silent snub to anyone who disagrees with the practice of blatantly ripping of everything digitial under the sun.

Practically Speaking...

[Phoe6]

Practically Speaking, I would like to see the implications of this change of law in society. With respective of creative arts, many are not aware of what is legal and what is illegal. Seriously.
Many think, pirated DVDs are of poor quality and if you get high quality pirated DVDsit is worth their money to buy it. Legalese does not come into picture at all.

Majority of Indian's being aware of copyright laws one of one of best things to happen to country.

This change is definitely a fine piece of work.

The type of law MPAA/RIAA lobby against.ACTA meant

[Gel214th]

This is the type of law and the type of legislation which scares the MPAA and the RIAA. The fact that other nations have not followed the United States' and the EU's adoption of draconian copyright law which removes the rights of the Consumer does not fall in line with the business strategies of these international cartels.

ACTA is meant to supercede any existing copyright laws of a country which signs to the treaty. So Canada, India and others can have whatever fair and just laws they wish, it will not matter once they are made to sign the ACTA agreement.

What's happening is very insidious, and it is something that citizens must guard very carefully against. The period of economic growth and innovation which we have seen via the Internet is based in no small part on Fair Use.

Three things threaten this:
1) Problems with The Patent System
2) Unfair and Draconian Copyright laws.
3) Any loss of net neutrality.

irlol

[Anonymous Coward]

chronically homeless in the US (120,000)

lobotomy coming right up aka citation needed

haha yea. 120,000 homeless

[unity100]

according to government statistics. hahaha. yea. you can trust on that.

yeaaa yaayyy you are american

[unity100]

you love your job, its not going to be outsourced, and every single aspect of your life is controlled by corporations with big money, including your judiciary and your democracy.

its a great time to be an american !!

come on man. cut the bullshit

[unity100]

so america enjoys a much more nuanced and free, and is at terms with its sexuality.

WHERE ?

in east coast, and west coast, a few enclaves, and maybe a few scattered enclaves around the continent.

excluding those you have bigots, mormons, rednecks, innumerable religious cliches that shun many aspects of sexuality.

give me a break.

Re:come on man. cut the bullshit

[rjiy]

I was making a comparison, not holding up America as a gold standard on relationships or something. Also, the "West" usually includes much of Europe as well.

Re:say again!

[aynoknman]

So it's not illegle to to brake the copyright unless you break the copyright.

Firstly, there are so many things grammatically wrong with that statequestionment-sentence-rhetorical-grammarfuck. Secondly, what about accelerating it?

O.K.

Soit'snotillegletotobrakethecopyrightunlessyoubreakthecopyright.

We need to have Pakistan nuke em.

[Anonymous Coward]

Now that India is turning into a haven of piracy that will cost the US economy Zillions, we need to encourage are staunch ally, Pakistan, to nuke em.

and it doesnt exist in united states ?

[unity100]

huh ? you think so ? you think that, only because the storefront is different, and, you are allowed vertical social mobility in appearance, you do not live in a caste system ?

in your country, top 5% of the society has 74% of financial wealth. similar applies for income and total wealth. note that, financial wealth is much important because they are major tools for generating more wealth (investments, interest, instruments) and getting even richer.

so you live in this country, where 80% of society does with approx 15% of wealth. and in that country EVERYthing costs money. education costs money. a lot, so that if you dont find a scholarship, you start life deeply in debt. if you do find a scholarship you probably start life as an indentured servant. to start life without being bonded or indebted you have to be in the very, very tiny genious margin of 1/1000 of society. how many people are in there ? are you ?

staying alive costs money. getting a nose patched can cost an arm and a leg. (until the recent healthcare bill of yours), it was possible that you could be denied treatment even if you were able to pay your insurance payments, even if you were a kid.

rents cost arm and a leg. everything is sold from exorbitant prices despite being manufactured in china for dimes.

so. tell me.

are you fool enough to believe that a caste system in a country which 5% has 74% of wealth and 80% of society does with 15%, does not exist ? it was better in medieval code for fuck's sakes - serf was legally and customarily entitled to 33% of the produce from the farm they tilled for their lord ...

Re:and it doesnt exist in united states ?

[Anonymous Coward]

http://www.faculty.fairfield.edu/faculty/hodgson/courses/so11/stratification/income&wealth.htm

DRM = stupid and bad

[Anonymous Coward]

only illegal if your violating copyright
funny
FUCKING idiots the lot fo them politicians

best money can buy
want to bribe someone LOOK AT WHO WANTS TO BE A POLITICIAN

Jaffer is prime candidate and his wifey , and they say BELIZE is the place to store and cash out with a tax free haven

http://stealthisfilm.com

[h00manist]

The best comments I've ever heard on copyrights were on http://stealthisfilm.com./

Re:http://stealthisfilm.com

[HTH NE1]

You know, domain names are case-insensitive. It could just as well be http://StealThisFilm.com and avoid being misread as http://StealthIsFilm.com.

And by using the anchor tags yourself, you can even add spaces: Steal This Film.com vs. Stealth Is Film.com. (See also "Pen Island".) And that also avoids including the period in the URL.

Offtopic

[mcgrew]

Is anyone actually going to discuss the subject at hand -- copyright? Regardless of the cultural differences, ALL countries should follow India's lead. Why should noncommercial copying be illegal? If I'm not going to buy it, you won't lose money. People will buy it if it's worth buying. Read Doctorow's site, please (Little Brother is a good start).

Re:Offtopic

[rtb61]

In this case, although fair, India is really just wanting to maintain the current trade balance with more western money coming to line the pockets of a handful of rich Indians who ruthlessly exploit all those Indians working in poverty (who on the whole a looking to emigrate to more modern democracies rather than continue to be exploited).

The continued low level shared piracy will mean that content full of promises and temptations, the carrot, which is far cheaper than the stick, which itself inevitably breaks upon the backs of the poor with the subsequent violent consequences. The exploiters of course only care about today and in the end always believe they will be able to escape to another country with their profits, this becomes far more problematic with countries armed with nuclear weapons. Vengeful revolutionaries armed with nuclear weapons are likely to take a very dim view of profit based political asylum.

There are already three at risk of revolution nuclear armed countries, it appears that this number will continue to grow over time. There is nothing like the country with the most nukes prattling on about first strike to accelerate the process with the inevitable consequence.

Re:Offtopic

[sourcerror]

How would you sell games (software) then?
Or anything else that targets the home user?

Re:Offtopic

[mcgrew]

Read Doctorow. There's a history with games: Id gave Doom and Wolfenstein away, look what happened.

Re:Offtopic

[sourcerror]

That was the demo. They're still charging for their full games.

Re:Offtopic

[mcgrew]

How about Duke Nukem? Their "demo" was a full game, complete with end boss. It had me registering, and in addition to the promised two more full games, I was surprised to get another "demo" of another of their games (which was also a full game).

Is any of this substanciated?

[brit74]

Could someone please point out where in the original document any of this is substantiated? I've gotten used to fact checking Doctorow and Geist. (It's shocking how often they misrepresent the actual facts.) Geist links to two articles: one is a non-searchable pdf with a lot of amendments (it's difficult to decipher without the original document to see what it's amending), and the second document is a news article from "livemint". The livemint article says the copyright amendment gives more rights to creators, extends the length of copyright ("enhance the term of copyright for photographers to 'life plus 60 years' instead of only 60 years at present"), "The amendment seeks to bring the copyright Act, 1957 in line with the World Intellectual Property Organization's Internet treaties", and "The amendment also addresses the complaints of the music industry that has been complaining about 'version recordings' of original songs depriving music companies of royalties."

In short, I can't find anything at all that substantiates Doctorow's and Geist's claim that this is a more liberal copyright system.

Let's Outsource!

[vodevil]

So if this is what they can come up with, can we outsource our writing of copyright laws to India?

how does it matter

[Anonymous Coward]

Not sure are we debating on the merits/demerits of the bill or cultural nonsense. That some people or group of people struggle a lot to make things working,
And India as a country is in that phase . Many millions and millions in any developed nations are there too.

Im an Indian and i totally agree with that we have slums , we have inequality , we have caste discrimination and many bad things ,how does it applies to copyright law.

Now talking about copyright bill - eventhough its better, we cant compare two evils. DRM is evil and it should not have any place in any law.

Re:say again!

[Anonymous Coward]

Accelerating copyright?! Gods, man, considering how awful his grammarfuckfubar actually was at the speed at which it was created, can you really, in good faith, expect any good to come of such a thing? OTOH, accelerating the shelf life of a copyright does sound potentially worthwhile.

Disinformation?

[Anonymous Coward]

Without an attribution to the specific section of the "IT Act" of India or any other relevant legislation in India, I would double check the content. It seems to me that the only right that can be held is the right to copy passed on by the creator with reasonable and industry standard cost effective and practical safeguards against corruption. So, this article seems at variance with the practice in other countries and may be just to portray the Indian authorities in a negative light. Mind you however that Microsoft Home and Student edition of Office itself allows you to load it on upto three computers for personal use in a non commercial environment but that is a right granted by Microsoft and not by Indian law.

End

Alright then,

[gregthebunny]

time to move to India. Who's going with me?

So who will provide the tools?

[HTH NE1]

What difference does it make if they say you can break DRM in your own home for private use if the tools necessary to do so are still illegal to possess, sell, offer as a service, or otherwise traffic in?

that is old data

[unity100]

here, a recent one :

http://sociology.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/power/wealth.html