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Indian Copyright Bill Declares Private, Personal Copying "Fair Dealing"

Posted by timothy on from the much-less-drama-that-way dept.

asp7yxia writes "India's new copyright bill sounds like a pretty good piece of work: it declares private, personal copying to be 'fair dealing' (like US fair use) and limits the prohibition on breaking DRM so that it's only illegal to do so if you're also violating copyright."

24 of 192 comments (clear)

  1. Indian Copyright Bill by koona · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Am I the only one out here that has noticed that where people really have to work hard, they don't put up with much bullshit? Any indian will tell you that america is a fools paradise, and we put up with so much malarky it's sickening.

    1. Re:Indian Copyright Bill by Ethanol-fueled · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Am I the only one out here that has noticed that where people have to work 18 hours a day supporting their families or belong to a lower caste, they are alraedy putting up with much bullshit? Even now, any Indian would wet themselves at the prospect of being able to work in America.

      Still, India has a lot less of a stake in those matters than we do -- they're one of the developing economies getting all of the decent jobs, producing little creative output(in before Slumdog). As America's jobs are sold to the lowest bidder offshore, all that's left of America's economy will be its creative content.

    2. Re:Indian Copyright Bill by man1sh · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Also, please consider that what you consider as happiness might not be the only scale with which others measure theirs.

      Correct Raj. Having more shopping malls is not a measure of development and progress. More people eating in McDonalds and KFC doesn't make India a happy nation. For India, happiness is mostly achieved by living together in family. You share your success and failures with family and lots more. It's more of a social issue rather than eating in subway or KFC.

    3. Re:Indian Copyright Bill by BJ_Covert_Action · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Why do you think we yanks rose to world power status so quickly, relatively speaking? From the Revolutionary War all the way up through WWII we still had to work hard, and we didn't put up with much bullshit. =P

      However, as a society grows and prospers, it becomes easier to survive by doing less. Nowhere else in the world, right now, can someone have so much comfort for so little an effort as in the USA. Thus, more folk are raised with less work ethic. More folk migrate to the prosperous society where they don't have to work hard. The ratio of folk that work hard and contribute to the growth of society vs. those who don't, decreases overall, and great nations crumble. This has happened hundreds of times in history before. One day, maybe, we'll learn how to outgrow such a lame habit.

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    4. Re:Indian Copyright Bill by perryizgr8 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Also, please consider that what you consider as happiness might not be the only scale with which others measure theirs.

      Correct Raj. Having more shopping malls is not a measure of development and progress. More people eating in McDonalds and KFC doesn't make India a happy nation. For India, happiness is mostly achieved by living together in family. You share your success and failures with family and lots more. It's more of a social issue rather than eating in subway or KFC.

      you can't say that on behalf of the whole of india. i am an indian and those exact things (kfc, mcd, malls) make me happy. i hate the family culture here, it is just too full of hypocrisy. and believe me, most of my peers think like this too. i suspect people like you are in the minority.

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    5. Re:Indian Copyright Bill by megrims · · Score: 3, Interesting

      But perhaps I'm just being a closed-minded ethnocentric pig.

      Nail, on the head.

      There's very little purpose to the 'my culture is better than your culture' rant, and this was one of the less reasonable ones that I've seen.

    6. Re:Indian Copyright Bill by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

      It's also worth noting that we've had, what, 3 successive minority governments in Canada over the last several years -- i.e. where the party in power does not have majority control over parliament. We're always told by the main parties (especially the governing ones) that minority governments are bad, but, honestly, it has meant that all the parties have to get along reasonably well because of an interesting balance. On one hand they have to make deals with the parties in opposition to them (bad), and on the other hand if the governing party falls because of a non-confidence vote (basically they can't get along anymore), they would have to face a new election which the Canadian people emphatically DO NOT WANT (worse). It's the one thing that Canadians agree on -- we do not want another election simply because our politicians fail to get along. The politicians are trapped up there in Ottawa, forced to get along, because they know that any party that precipitated an election without really good reasons would take a substantial beating at the polls. If the governing party tries to push something through that is unpopular -- bad idea. If the opposition parties try to oppose something for petty reasons -- also a bad idea. The government business is still happening, but the government in power has to be more responsive to public opinion and opposition views than normal. I love it.

      The relevance to the issue here is instructive: there have been 2 tries to revised copyright law to make it compatible with the WIPO treaty. Both tries have included awful or botched versions of DMCA-like legislation (e.g., granting rights on one hand but making them impossible to legally exercise because of anti-circumvention rules). One was with a Liberal minority government, the other with a Conservative minority government. The public outrage has grown stronger each time, and both bills died on the order table (essentially: presented to parliament but not passed). If we had had a majority government either of those times I'm sure the bills would have been rammed through and we would have had DMCA-style copyright law in Canada. Minority government is the main reason we still don't have DMCA-style anti-circumvention laws in Canada.

      So, don't dread >2-party systems, just make sure the politicians understand that they have to get along or you'll take it out of them at the polls. These systems work fine when the usual requirement is there: a public that holds them accountable. When all you do is flip between one or the other of 2 options, that's harder, but having a third party that is NOT the governing party still means they can have a major amount of influence. They don't have to "win" to matter a great deal.

    7. Re:Indian Copyright Bill by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

      "Having seen what the Mumbai slums look like" -- where? In a movie?

      The poor in Mumbai aren't all beggars waiting for a handout. Dharavi in Mumbai is the largest slum in Asia, but it is also one of the most productive places in the city, generating a revenue of a billion dollars a year.

      Also 85% of its households have a television.

    8. Re:Indian Copyright Bill by oliverthered · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Are you using a capitalist model to define poverty or some other kind of model.

      For instance there are much higher rates of mental health problems in so called developed countries, that's a strong indicator that there is in-fact a much higher level of poverty in areas where it actually makes your life better, such as happiness.

      I believe that western countries are actually significantly poorer (maybe not in capitalist terms) and there;s a lot of evidence to back that up. Our gross contribution to global warming is also increasing poverty around the globe as is our resource hungry lifestyle. A lifestyle in which ownership and having the next best thing is the way in which happiness is achieved, but we don't appear to be doing very well on that front.

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      thank God the internet isn't a human right.
  2. A surprisingly well thought out law by Fallen+Kell · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Seriously, if the description given here is what it truly does, then this seems like a good law. Now if only the USA government would pass something like this which would put some balance back into copyright. The breaking of DRM only being illegal when you break copyright, and with it legal to make personal copies, it means people are free to break the DRM of things they bought, like making a backup copy of a movie, or ripping a movie for use on a HTPC without the need of the DVD in the HTPC (or blu-ray, or itunes songs, etc., etc.). Because all you are doing is using the item that you purchased for yourself, and you are free to use it in any way that you want, not simply the way that the copyright owner thinks you should be able to use it.

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  3. SuddenOutbreakOf... by heretic108 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Hmm, lemme see... wise and profound old culture, who invented our modern numbering system over 2000 years ago, writes a copyright law in the 21st century addressing contemporary technology issues, and gets it substantially right.

    Why am I not surprised?

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    -- In the beginning was the WORD, and the WORD was UNSIGNED, and the main(){} was without form and void...
    1. Re:SuddenOutbreakOf... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I am really tried of hearing this repeated on Slashdot. Let me make this clear... the caste system was made illegal more than 50 years ago, and it has literally became non-existent about 20-30 years. I myself was born in what would have been considered lower caste a few decades ago. I have never felt any of the oppression or any dam thing you could come up with (though some of the relatives have enjoyed the special reservations available in top schools, claiming to be from backward castes)

      The caste system originally denoted the field of work you were in. Which is broadly Kings/Warriors, Priests, Traders/Agriculturalist, Artists/Service_Providers. If you are born to a potter, you will learn the art of pottery right from your childhood from your father. This was all the system was all about.

      This was very recently twisted to classify low wage earning people into untouchables. This was nothing more than abuse of power by certain sects of the society, which mostly has returned to normal.

    2. Re:SuddenOutbreakOf... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      yes, a profound culture that still enforces a cast system, which says if you are born to a family that eats rats, that's all your ever allowed to be. one that uses child labour and has an active human slave trade.

      It's quite apparent you don't live in India and go by what you read someplace about history, because not much of this is true today.

      'Backward castes' of yester-year have outrageous affirmative action rights in India today. There is reservation in every sector for them regardless of their performance. People from these so called historical 'backward classes' are among the richest in India. You have a 'forward caste' student who works hard at his studies, but can't get into a college because a good percent of seats are reserved for 'backward classes' regardless of their performance. Reservation was probably necessary many decades ago, but not in this country today. But still these castes want more, because it suits them.

      When you have a leader of backward classes spending state money to build and protect statues of herself, and wearing money garlands worth millions of dollars made of 1000 rupee notes, you know how good it has become.

      But I post this anonymously, because it isn't politically correct to speak ill of affirmative action, or party leaders.

      Please stop talking badly about the caste system in India. It may exist in some rare cases, but is not the general way of life now.

      And I don't think anyone is forced to eat rats in India. I hope not :) I don't think so many rats are available to feed the populace.

      Use of child labour is unfortunately true in some places, especially for domestic work. Child labour is illegal in law. If you know of any instances of child labour taking place, call 1098 in India and report it.

      I'm surprised that you mention slave trade in India, because I have never heard of it. Still, if it exists, I don't think it would be any different than the numbers in other countries.

      Note: I am an Indian citizen and have lived in this country for about 24 years. I love this country to bits for how this hard-earned freedom means something here. I didn't give up my citizenship for that of another commonwealth country, because my fundamental rights as a citizen here are worth more than anywhere else in the world. But I also feel sad for the state of some things in the country today.

    3. Re:SuddenOutbreakOf... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      And India still has caste based racism. Don't that make us big hypocrites?
      Indians do dream about US and west and they do go there to do stupid jobs, it is all about money and infrastructure.
      But why is this discussion about greatness of India, why are we so sensitive.

      Siju - Indian

    4. Re:SuddenOutbreakOf... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Interesting

      You big liar, caste based system is real and live in India, certainly less but not gone. These people still have it in their mind. The stupid Indian middle class wants to think India is perfect to satisfy their ego.

      Caste based system and what happened to untouchables was worse kind of racism ever practiced. They were not even treated Human. Some indian hypocrites wants to ignore history.

      Why are we discussing it here

    5. Re:SuddenOutbreakOf... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Here's an observation that my sister made when she was in the UK for a year which might help you put things into perspective.

      We belong to a backward caste, a reality which never really struck us because that sort of culture simply wasn't visible around us. Through our entire life no one asked us what our caste was, but when my sister went to the UK, every Indian would, for some weird reason, ask her what her caste was and revel in the fact that they were a higher caste. The reason for this is that they know India as it was many years ago, when caste system was much more prevalent than it is today. Also, being away from home they have a tendency to cling on to their "roots".

      As for the ground reality here in India, yes caste system is still a reality and also leads to murders in some places in the country. But it is about as bad as racism in any western country. So when you call caste system an evil thing in India that makes it an unfit culture to live in, it really becomes a case of the pot calling the kettle black.

  4. What about ACTA ? by ProdigyPuNk · · Score: 2, Interesting

    How will this effect future relations with ACTA countries ? Depending on the wording of ACTA, this could end up having a rather large effect since ACTA does not take the same stance as far as this goes...

    1. Re:What about ACTA ? by Luckyo · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Also, India isn't even involved in WIPO, ACTA's predecessor. This hasn't stopped RIAA and co from claiming that it infringes WIPO and shoving it on all kinds of black lists for that reason.
      ACTA is mostly about western countries. Most of the developing countries are still coming to terms with WIPO, if they signed it.

  5. Wonder why ... by CalcuttaWala · · Score: 4, Interesting

    this is not such a big deal here in India ! strange that i had to hear it in ./ and not in the national press

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  6. But... by laughingcoyote · · Score: 4, Interesting

    There's always something, and this bill's got quite a "something" in it. This is India's very own version of our Mickey Mouse Copyright Perpetuation Act (ostensibly having something to do with Sonny Bono, but we all know who it really was for...), and extends a fixed 60-year term to life plus 60 (see sidebar here.

    Why in the world would we want to see copyrights get longer, anywhere? They obviously already provide an incentive at current levels. Even ten years should be an adequate incentive for 99.9% of cases, and you never want to write law based on the edge cases. With digital distribution speeding up how quickly a work can have its initial distribution, copyright terms should be shrinking, not growing.

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  7. Tolerance!, and an appreciation for freedom.. by qwerty8ytrewq · · Score: 2, Interesting

    This is such a great, simple resolution. The current copyright greed is out of control, based on a 'because we can' model. I was very inspired by http://www.ripremix.com/ . Changes in this stuff is essential for progress of global culture. Go India. PDF is here http://www.michaelgeist.ca/content/view/4974/196/ for those who want to look further.

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  8. Already used in Finland by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    The permissions what this bill give in India, is already in use (have be from the beginning) in Finland.

    You are allowed to make few (3-10) copies from the copyrighted material what you have bought or you have by legal means.

    You are allowed to crack the DRM if needed to get the material viewable or to be played.

    You are even allowed to give maded copies to your family or your closest friends. But new copies from those copies are not permitted. They can not either share the copies to anyone else.
    If the original is destroyed, lost or stolen. All the copies are needed to be destroyed.

    Otherwise you are not allowed to crack the strong encryption.

    Because Finland does not use Common Law, the law is based to moral and questions of ethic by every case. Defended questions for actions are always higer stage when it is about to questioning why something was done.

    Example, you can brake the law to save someones life.

    It is just too bad that U.S and UK kind sick mentality is overspreading slowly by the media and big corporations what wants to control everything. Still laws are well balanced, but have started to support more big companies like Nokia and their rights over the citizens.

  9. Re:+1 post of referral mastery by TheRaven64 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Or, in short: If nobody reads TFA, does it truly link to a blog with no information content?

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  10. Offtopic by mcgrew · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Is anyone actually going to discuss the subject at hand -- copyright? Regardless of the cultural differences, ALL countries should follow India's lead. Why should noncommercial copying be illegal? If I'm not going to buy it, you won't lose money. People will buy it if it's worth buying. Read Doctorow's site, please (Little Brother is a good start).

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