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Facebook's "Evil Interfaces"
An anonymous reader writes "Tim Jones over at the EFF's Deep Links Blog just posted an interesting article on the widespread use of deceptive interface techniques on the Web. He began by polling his Twitter and Facebook audience for an appropriate term for this condition and received responses like 'Bait-and-Click' and 'Zuckerpunched.' Ultimately, he chose 'Evil Interfaces' from Greg Conti's HOPE talk on malicious interface design and follow-up interview with media-savvy puppet Weena. Tim then goes on to dissect Facebook (with pictures). So, what evil interfaces have you encountered on (or off) the Web?"
Honestly, FB should just give us decent privacy controls because the majority of their users won't bother. So its a win-win. FB gets to use whatever they want and the small number of us who want better privacy controls are pleased.
Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
"So, what evil interfaces have you encountered on (or off) the Web"?
Outlook Express.
"Kill 'em all and let Root sort 'em out"
I tried to change my password and now I can't log in anymore.
Instead of privacy controls, how about not entering information you want to keep to yourself or a select few from ever getting on the site in the first place ? It's already been proven that what is private now will not necessarily be kept private, and there's always leaks and whatnot. Is it really that hard to just NOT put certain stuff on these sites to begin with ?
When the URL is http://gdddmfm.eiiwihh817266.ooe7.com
As soon as you see the word "richer", as in "richer user experience", hold on to your wallet. The only thing rich about a "richer user experience" is how rich it is going to make the person forcing it on you.
sPh
FB has become less deceptive in some of their newer things. Not that it's a good thing (the method they have done so). Want to list a certain thing about yourself? Sure. If you have it linked to the page/group/whatever about it. Thus exposing your interests and yourself to the world.
...or you can have your profile info page blank.
No option C anymore.
So, nowadays, it has become more of a use of strongarm tactics to ensure that your data is everywhere and available to anyone as opposed to deceptively tricking people into doing so.
I'm not sure which is worse. The current method for me (well, if I cared. Anything I put on FB on my info section is already all over the web or the Star Trek Phase 2 site or IMDB).
One's very annoying (the "we're posting this info linked to you wherever we choose, or you can choose to have an empty profile" method) and the old method is deceptively evil (the "we'll simply confuse you into allowing us to post your info unless you take the time to stop and read what you are doing and opt out" method).
I guess a lot of people were getting smarter - especially with so many warnings online and via other FB friends telling people to click/unclick new "hidden" privacy options on FB every time a new change rolled out. So, FB got smart in creating a new way of using that info with no privacy settings to prevent them from - either post the info so they can do what they want with it - or remove all the info entirely.
StarTrekPhase2 - The Five Year Mission Continues!
For those interested, there are two related research papers available by Conti and Sobiesk. The first Malicious Interface Design: Exploiting the User was just published this week at the 2010 WWW Conference. The other is from IEEE Security and Privacy Magazine, Malicious Interfaces and Personalization's Uninviting Future. (PDF)
I have to reply to this article with a comment? Really? I can't just "like" it?
This comes up every time. If you don't want information out there. Don't put it on the internet. Even with all of my privacy controls on Facebook on max settings (Always getting screwed with and removed by FB). I don't put ANYTHING on Facebook that I wouldn't accept being released to the general indexes. Don't put information out there that you wouldn't want the world populace to potentially know!
"What is there a tank on the boat? WHY IS THERE A TANK ON THE BOAT?!?" L4D2
Here is what I found reprehensible is that when I choose to not store my credit card information on their site, a pop up window with the their privacy policy pops up. Clearly, if it so important to them that I keep my credit card information on their site, then it stands to reason that they intend to misuse it in some way. Ticketmaster already lied to me about the amount they were going to charge to credit card, who knows what else they lie about. Perhaps I was being enrolled in a club that would charge me $50 a month to have priority access to future purchase opportunities. I don't know. I don't know why they would confuse the user and kill a sale just to get to keep my credit information.
"She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
To show your appreciation of the richer user experience, you have to get down on your hands and knees and suck this articles cock.
You can't just "like" it.
They provide a free service that you must opt-in to participate. If you don't like their terms of service and privacy policy then you should delete your account and stop using it.
Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
Most gas stations have the gas grades from lowest to highest, left to right respectively. However some gas stations reverse the order from right to left, thus possibly hitting the more expensive high grade. Damn evil oil companies :)
Never try to beat a professional at his own game!
Should have gone with that name.
Where to start.
Shoddy craftsmanship. Highly illogical. Dumb all over (and maybe a little ugly on the side).
After using PINE http://www.washington.edu/pine/ for a couple of years I was confronted with OE on someone's computer somewhere. It was like a kick to the balls. Now get of my lawn : ).
http://www.nthelp.com/50/Outlook_error_codes.htm
"Kill 'em all and let Root sort 'em out"
You know when you google for something and end up at an Expert Sex Change link? Then they make it look like you can't see the answer, but if you scroll all the way to the bottom, you actually can? That's pure evil. Even Satan curses them out when he ends on their website.
Anyone use Lotus Notes at work? Maybe it is just me....
I was positive this article was going to be about Bethesda games.
Facebook's UI is absolutely dire: this on the web. I assume that the mobile applications are written by people who try to make them usable.
Over time every application that I use has got better. Facebook is the only UI I have seen get more difficult to use, uglier, more complicated. It's not like they are adding seriously different functionality to previous versions like, for example, The GIMP. The concept remains exactly the same: allow users to selectively share and interact with personal information.
How is it, every time they add more privacy options, more of my personal information that was restricted access gets exposed to more people ? If I still have an account this time next year I will probably only have my name and one photograph on there...
I love it when I get a pop up from a virus scanner, or fake youtube page that looks like XP on my Mac. The XP theme on OS X is so out of place.
It's like - WTF ! I use the privacy controls just to restrict visibility to friends , and have redacted a lot of my personal information. But getting tagged with a unflattering picture (which is quite easy for me!), is a downer. I'll have to sort that out. I think the key is not to be FB friends with anyone under 25.
Dilbert web page seems to use evil method of loading an ad, waiting 20 seconds and then showing the actual content. So when you update, you're waiting long time and only thing you can do is read the damn ad... These evil practises need to stop immediately.
Anybody remember Real Media? I hear that they've mostly cleaned up their act, but once upon a time they pulled every trick they could think of. If you started an order on their web site, they would take you to a page with what you want to order, checkmarked, and then a whole bunch of worthless stuff beneath the page fold, also checkmarked. If you didn't uncheck all of the stuff beneath the fold, they would charge you for all of that stuff too. I'm not sure if the full price was even listed before you filled in your credit card info.
EULAs are often displayed in tiny, not resizable boxes, and sometimes you can't even select and copy the text and paste it in a text editor.
thepiratebay.org has something of a classic. Search, find, click, go to the download page, but wait, don't click on the big green "Download" button, that's for a toolbar or something which no doubt they get paid a little something for every time someone clicks. What you want is the smaller "DOWNLOAD THIS TORRENT" link underneath the inviting big green "Download" button.
No big deal since I like TPB, and what does one expect of pirates? "Yarrr, suckered ye good Jimmy me lad, now give us rum."
Loose lips lose spit.
"So, what evil interfaces have you encountered on (or off) the Web"?
Human
What about SAP? Dear god...
And while we are dissing business applications, I find the default Sharepoint site layout to be confusing, infuriating and generally shitty to use. Really, even MS could have done better there.
If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
It's actually a volume question. If we all would start using that term, and then get some well known people to follow suite, *WE* would define the term. I must admit I like the whole idea of using "zuck" for any deceptive activity that impacts your privacy - I would support that no problem. "Evil interfaces" is, sorry, total crap.
First of all will it confuse people with Google's "Do no evil unless we make money on it", secondly it's not very creative and about as juveline as the content of that video they made. No, "zuck" is IMHO MUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCH better.
Insert
Try the Pirate dialect for setting up privacy options:
"Make ye parchment of ye mateys visible to arrrrvreyone?"
Let's see... um... "Arrrrr!" or "Walk the plank!"...
Well, Consider yourself lucky you could be forced to use Outlook
Quite possibly the most important info on Facebook is your friends. You can have an empty profile you still have all your friend connections. And if you have 10 friends who said in their profiles that they all went to the same school. You probably did too.
Ponzibuddy, uhm Bonzibuddy...
Mark Zuckerberg is a cock. Like anyone he is just doing what he can to be rich but he is shitting all over a lot of people and unfortunately people seem to be fine with this because they don't realise the negative effects of FB until it hits them.
Mark is not going to give up access to your data, it is what makes him rich, so people need to realise it's not smart to talk about your vagina or how drunk you got in such a public area. Once they realise that's dumb then maybe they'll tell Mark to quit shilling their data and that little twat will have to find another way to get rich.
The privacy debate is already complex enough without nutters like you joining in. What the hell is a company supposed to do against someone uploading material about someone else? Ban the use of all names and photos? Demand written permission from every person mentioned, every person in any picture?
If other people publish information about you, then it is up to you to stop it, not facebook or any other company. Because that could never work short of shutting down all publishing everywhere.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
Oh hell, all of slashdot is pretty much evil. It whispers to me: "Visit me, don't work, don't eat, kill your loved ones and strangers. Mod ME!" And I obey.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
Thats what have to use so I use Outlook Web Access on Linux and it is the worlds worst web mail program by design.
http://michaelsmith.id.au
...with the very first 'oops-didn't-you-scroll-down-and-look-at-the-other-checkboxes' installer system
Sounds like the work of Catbert.
http://michaelsmith.id.au
How about the Dish Network program guide, which just added a row of advertising--for dish network instant movie rental? Evil interface indeed.
in order to use any persons data one must get written consent EACH time it is to be used.
THIS means each time someone is to use that data WRITTEN conesent and YOU can't hand it to anyone else unless they come back to you and ask for written consent
ANNOYING as hell when you consider a doctor patient BUT when you consider the rest of the universe ITS DAMN WELL APPRECIATED.
IT actually carries a 50000 $ fine for example to use a persons health card as identification even though it has a picture and your address on it, the issue is the back side also has medical and other data about you. A bank won't even touch them.
THIS IS why the big row with Canada and im happy to say that the controls they have now are sufficient for my tastes i cna publish all i want and the only public i see from google is almost like a web page advert for me. YA know now that i think of it, if they gave us a lil more ability to customize with some ads they can put in tastefully.....MAYBE that pick and choose thing.....MIGHT be an even better viable way to go about it.
MY last web hosting project inside two months i had 8million uniques in the last month.
Any time i get involved i do it right. AND i have made a fair chunk of money in the past.
I brought a seed hosting company from 0 clients to 40 servers at a profit avg of 30$ CAD/month each
WHY?
HOW?
THe clients themselves were so pleased that one guy even said hed just give me a lil extra cause he knows how hard it was to work with some people. BEING disabled this was very satisfying.
and 20 of those clients told me if i ever do that again ( tangle of a bad partner issue )
they'd sign with me in an instant.
THAT'S when you know you do it right.I put it in writing and have a history of sticking up for hte common man and that carrying with you means NOT just business but LOTS of business.
I got myself a long time ago this -1 and now i can only make a post a day.
TOO bad im sure you all could learn something from a hacker that turned into a business man that keeps his ties to his old friends and that knowledge feeds my clients safety.
I even share this on face book as 7 members of that group started there and when i showed up 3 months ago to help out its now grown to 1000 members. ONE of its staff is a university prof, one is former HP employee. and so on. ALL WALKS a life all ages. Always think you can learn more, and share the knowledge, it really is a good feeling.
one of my distant relatives turned down 50 million for example form MS over samba, so he could keep sharing and quit novel and now works for google.
ALL big companies have one failing and thats share holder greed. GOOGLE has done as good as i think any can. Face book will evolve. THE thing were still going through is the end of the bush style terrorist mentality. we handed far too much control to them and they ran and are still running with it.
OTHERS ( obama ) have now seen what they can do with this power , sarkozy and Britain and Australia. IT will fail in the end but it will take time and i think it will really take losing before we regain freedom.
also just about everyone here has a face book page/account , i play a few games and also have joined a few worthy causes and some groups like the ACTA one. I haven't been very active in my UHA group but if i did it would grow very very large , why?
FIRST thing i would do is make sure that everyone joining knows how ot set privacy levels on there pages. I would also tell them certain shit is none of facebooks business and never use a real name.
IF you do then dont provide much more hten you age. NOTHING is worse then some 65 year old with a bunch a 14 year old friends he may not intend on being looked like a pervert buts that what that data could show especially if your playing the online games like i do.
goal a one game is that to invade a peep you need friends more friends bigger your army
there are places where people are adding hundreds without reason , im a bit picky and ill check every person out before i add them. I also as a few people.
P.S. all this and you think im there all day and guess what nope 2-3 hrs of my day MAX
i have plenty of other things to do.
I was recently hired by IBM, and man, what a PAIN!
I actually thought Notes was dead, then I learned I must do everything through it.
Security is mostly a superstition... Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. - Helen Keller
I really think Notes trumps SAP in the user-unfriendliness department.
Even my bosses, when they were hiring me, were chuckling in that "funny but sad" sort of way when asking if I'd used Notes before.
Security is mostly a superstition... Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. - Helen Keller
you sign up and are lazy and just go about posting stuff without thinking of any consequences.
there may be some need or times like causes when you want as much info about you up there.
I have little to hide but i have ONLY put up my birthdate and location , seriously strangers come to the door i have a 350 pound security guard thats gonna tell you about how privacy works
( will i get to post again?)
You can't see the total price (all fees are added later)
You can't tell if there are no tickets for the show - it will let you search, do the image challenge, and THEN tell you that you might want to try other dates
And you have to do all of the above for each price category, because it won't even tell you that some price categories sold out.
I bet actually buying tickets you run into some more issues, but this is how far I got
The building that I work in has three floors and the third floor, where I work, has the men's bathroom on the right and women's on the left. Go down one floor and they are reversed. I have had a few interesting encounters especially at the end of a 12+ hour shift. I can understand not having a universal standard for which side is which (although I would support one) but jeez, at least have them the same within the same company and building.
That's why God gave us tabbed browsers. Of course when I encounter that crap, I usually decide it's not even worth that much trouble and just close the page.
One CPU cycle wasted on digital restrictions management is ONE TOO MANY.
And wouldn't that be a tragedy!
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
I think the MobileMe bits integrated into OSX might fall into this category: in the Go menu of a Finder is an item 'iDisk" which can't be used unless you buy a MobileMe subscription, but which can't be removed. This iDisk also shows up in the default sidebar, although that at least is removable.
is the word.
Perhaps it would be prudent first to replace any correct information with blatant lies, then 'delete' the false data. Does anyone know if this is an improvement.
Probably the safest policy, if you must use FB at all, is to lie constantly, consistently and thoroughly. You should already know the people/groups you are trying to contact.
--
Sometimes I stare into space and it doesn't recognize me. - P S Mueller
Welcome to three days ago, dude.
You put information about yourself on *their* server, and then complain about privacy?
Gotcha.
there was the Norton Security Scan that morphed into the evil XP Security Center 2010
Really? I was tempted to ignore your "proper reply", but then your holier-than-thou attitude brought me back to the table. :-)
"Mod" me. Sheesh, what a toothless, empty, pointless "IntarTubes Generation" sort of threat [no offence intended, /.]. I'm Karma Neutral; bite me.
"Properly", no you're not. You're citizens of the US. There are two continents and numerous islands in the Western Hemisphere, pretty much all of them (at least on the mainland) inhabited by Americans of one form or another; North, Central, and South Americans. However, as the US hasn't invaded any of them recently (besides Grenada), you can be forgiven your lack of awareness. Frankly, I prefer the term Yanqui to refer to citizens of the US. As demographics are going there just now, you'll all soon be speaking Spanish anyway (not that there's anything wrong with that; it's a beautiful language). Bonus: it really pees off the Southern states' Yanquis.
If you're on /., we should expect that you've done some geeky sh*t, possibly even programming! When you say the equivalent of "American" to a compiler/interpreter, it bails wondering which one. Concise, precise, fully described is what's needed. They don't do ambiguity, and neither should we. "Americans" isn't adequate to differentiate "citizens of the US" from other Americans.
Sigh. I'm curious who you'll be voting for; Demopublican, or Republicrat? How do you tell them apart? I just read a story about a Dem. congressman/senator from Oregon who survived the Nixon Whitehouse! How the hell does that happen?!? He's been voted the Democrat least likely to vote with his own party. Why isn't Oregon just voting Republican, if that's all there is there? Answer: because it's Oregon, and gahd help them if they'd voted GOP!
Isn't it also considered a useful notion that one quotes what one is replying to? Laziness is easier, I suppose. Damn, I miss Usenet.
"Tongue tied and twisted, just an Earth bound misfit
Card Number: ____ ____ ____ ____
Expiry Date: __/__
[Check It]
The EFF's website.
They consistently skew facts, misquote people, and practice fear-mongering to get you to click that donate button or blast their target-of-the-day. FYI, if you use any of their mass mailers, you don't know who the message is going to... I hope you like being a spammer.
Facebook's shithouse UI drives me nuts on a daily basis...but I try to use it to my advantage, e.g. use Facebook before going to throttle someone so as to work up the desire to throttle someone.
The best example of the worst UI shennanigans I've encountered in Facebook was some years back where Facebook itself failed to make a business process complete-able by ommitting a button (or means of any kind) to allow one to continue with the business process, so advertisers made ads containing only what looked to be a Facebook styled button.....so, for lack of Facebook being a professional, complete online application the User (me) would naturally click on that rogue button.