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RFID Checks Student Attendance in Arizona
The student newspaper at UW-Madison is running a piece about the use of RFID to check lecture attendance at Northern Arizona University. One poster to an email discussion list suggested that getting around this system would be simple if "all one has to do is walk into a classroom with 10 RFID-enabled cards in their pocket." "The new system will use sensors to detect students' university identification cards when they enter classrooms, according to NAU spokesperson Tom Bauer. The data will be recorded and available for professors to examine. ... [The spokesman] added the sensors, paid for by federal stimulus money, initially would only be installed in large freshmen and sophomore classes with more than 50 students. NAU Student Body President Kathleen Templin said most students seem to be against the new system. She added students have started Facebook groups and petitions against the sensor system. ... One of the most popular Facebook groups ... has more than 1,400 members." What are the odds that the use of tracking RFID will expand over time on that campus?
Come on now. These are adults. If they choose to skip class because they feel their time is better spent elsewhere, that's their business. If they're wrong, they'll be punished at exam time. No attendance checks are necessary.
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
This comes from a scarcity, closed-system mentality: log and track access. Mostly people who still think this way have not been shown better ways.
They could have done it open: used the resources to video record the classes, and broadcast them on campus (They did this at Stanford when I was there). Students, if they find value in being in the classroom would go, otherwise they could watch the recorded version. Benefits for the students are time shifting, taking breaks as needed, and 1.5x speed playback are obvious examples. For the university, recordings create tools for distance learning, and open education initiatives. For everyone, building a more open approach builds goodwill, and can be used for dramatic marketing and PR advantage.
The whole essence of education works better when the student originates the driving motivation to learn. Putting in place systems that force learning on someone (for example, tracking attendance) while may seem to improve results short term, actually reduce success long term for the person.
At the college level...why bother? Seriously. These kids are paying for the privilege of being there, so if they want to sleep through or skip class, who is the school to say they shouldn't?
They get paid either way.
Sent from your iPad.
1) Lobby for this in your state
2) Go back to college, target ones with huge classes and this RFID attendance checking system
3) Advertise that, for a small fee, you'll gladly take people's cards with you to class. Once you get to class, take a nap
???
Profit!
This seems to be a completely opposite approach than on my school where one can unlock classrooms (that have not been blocked by priviledged cards) with ANY card from an unrelated issuer (of course with the same standard)
How is ordering RFID-backed ID card blanks putting federal cash to work on "shovel-ready" projects?
Let me guess....campus maintenance staff would've been fired over the summer if they didn't need to set up card readers at the door to a few classrooms? Does anybody believe this stuff anymore?
Sign up for my Facebook group, we're protesting this invasion of our privacy!!
(good god, I hope at least some of the older slashdot denizens see the irony in it)
You get your degree for passing, not attendance. Their passing of students is not contingent on their attendance necessarily.
Who cares if the consumer does not show up to receive the service he paid for?
While I'm not going to completely disagree with you, I think it's important to note that the notion that "the student is a customer" has some gotcha clauses.
Namely, at public universities (which are very common and typically have the largest student populations), a very large (usually a majority) portion of the tuition for in-state students is being subsidized by the government. Even tuition for out-of-state students is subsidized, though usually at a much lower rate.
In that regard, even though they're still paying something, suggesting that they are as a customer paying for the whole of their experience is misleading.
Also, a school has to have SOME standards, as the degree that they issue signifies to others some meaning about that person. Without that degree stating that the person has met some level of standards, the value of the degree for everyone holding it is diminished. Now whether or not those standards should extend to attendance is debatable, but there's plenty of justification for the university dictating terms which persons pursuing a degree must meet.
"People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
And as a school, yes I have the responsibility to vouch that said student did actually come to the classes they claim they did when they show you that way overpriced framed piece of paper. Otherwise, I'm not better than some 2bit school selling degrees.
Really? That degree says you attended all your classes? Or just that you performed all the practicals and written exams to the satisfaction of the dean?
2bit schools selling degrees don't bother with exams.
Magic doesn't work in my presence. My power of disbelief is too strong.
With many students being denied entry into a particular college/university/etc. because they are at their supposed maximum capacity.. I, for one, would think it entirely that college/university's business to say "If you're not going to attend, gtfo - we'd rather have somebody who does." as a deterrent to future students who plan on low/no attendance.
I truly despise mandatory attendance. It forces students who don't want to be there to attend (remember the distracting assholes in K-12?). It punishes students who actually contribute when they are there, while others who do not contribute merely have to BE THERE. It is often used by professors who give boring lectures. As students, we should be allowed to manage our own time. I'm considering going into education (college level) and if I do, I will NEVER do this crap.
'Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun.' - Mao Tse-tung
you mean they don't already do that? I know my local community college does for exactly that reason (and has done so since before I attended).
"There is a way that seems right to a man, but its end is the way of death." Proverbs 16:25 (NKJV)
Seems schools considering this need to look over their core competencies to make sure education is one of them.
"There is a way that seems right to a man, but its end is the way of death." Proverbs 16:25 (NKJV)
I thought the point of post-secondary education was that attendance is optional, knowledge of course content is required, and verified by examination. Some of my profs were among the most brilliant people I've ever met. Sadly, a number of them had the personality and teaching skill of a venomous reptile. Forcing students into regular contact with them would have been regarded as a war crime in any civilized country on Earth.
I've calculated my velocity with such exquisite precision that I have no idea where I am.
Why not test "knowledge of subject matter" to check attendance?
I know most undergrad students still act like children, but the whole point of university is that that's where you start treating them like adults.
sic transit gloria mundi
I learn a lot from lectures. Others people don't. Requiring attendance is one way of forcing students to conform to a learning style that may or may not work for them.
Mandatory lectures, mandatory reading, mandatory practice problems, mandatory study groups.... By the time you get to college, you should already know how to learn.
Also, a school has to have SOME standards, as the degree that they issue signifies to others some meaning about that person. Without that degree stating that the person has met some level of standards, the value of the degree for everyone holding it is diminished. Now whether or not those standards should extend to attendance is debatable, but there's plenty of justification for the university dictating terms which persons pursuing a degree must meet.
That is what the tests, exams, and pojects are for.... The few exceptions I can see for this would be for things like "Public Speaking", or "Film History", "Directed Study in Voice", or other "performance" classes where being there is needed to actually do the work. For 101 level english lit, math/calculus, physics, chemistry, biology, etc., let them attend or not. The proof will be in the exams. I can tell you for a fact that I showed up to a total of 4 chemistry lectures and 2 biology lectures my Freshman year at college. My time was better spent elsewhere. I also received "A's" in both those subjects all Freshman year. You are now saying to yourself that I must have gone to a crappy college or something, but the reality was that I went to a VERY good High School and took all the AP level courses, I just didn't take the AP exam for college credit because the college I was going to would not accept AP credit for core classes, which as an engineering major, those were part of the core program, and were required to be taken at my college. Those classes were also a complete waste of my time.
We were all warned a long time ago that MS products sucked, remember the Magic 8 Ball said, "Outlook not so good"
American universities aren't exactly places of learning, like they are in Europe and elsewhere.
QS World University Rankings (Top 20) Therefore, you are a terrorist.
Negative moral value of force outweighs the positive value of good intentions.
Wrap your card in tinfoil and keep it in your pocket and go to class.
Then ask to see the attendance record immediately after class, before leaving the class. Because you are worried about the attendance being correctly recorded.
You will not be on the list. Just pull out the card to prove it was on your person.
System proven to fail. Go on record as protesting the failure of the attendance system to accurately record your presence.
For bonus points:
Then have everyone bug the system every time after every class to confirm their attendance, so they don't get deducted by the system for not being present.
Man, I hate taking attendance. As far as I'm concerned, attendance should have nothing to do with assessments in college. Moreover, it's a huge waste of time having to do this paper-shuffling stuff at the beginning of each class session.
However, it's just about the ONE thing that the administration of the college I teach at is totally anal about. They require it, they have an awkward official form that must be filled with checks for every student for every class meeting (can't use my own design, or a spreadsheet, or an online summary), it's the one thing they have a big boldface BY SIGNING HERE YOU VERIFY YOU HAVE CHECKED ATTENDANCE RECORDS FOR ACCURACY.
Why? Because it's how they document financial aid. Most of the students attending are on some form of government financial aid, and if they potentially withdraw or don't show up, the college can point to this roster and say, "See? Student attended class. Pay up, state agency." I'm wasting hours of time every semester with this CYA bullshit -- but to the administration, getting paid trumps all else.
I also recently spearheaded an insurgency against an attempt to make attendance a passing requirement in my department's remedial courses. Fortunately (largely because the department chair is a fellow union member and thus responsive -- administration trying to remove that asap), that one did get knocked down.
We know where leadership by an anti-intellectual "strongman" who scapegoats minorities and likes boisterous rallies goes
while may seem to improve results short term, actually reduce success long term for the person.
Trouble is the school doesn't have to care about the long term effects on their students.
If you have any student loans, universities in the United States are required to report your last date of attendance, if you are attending at least half time or not, and other information to the National Student Loan Data System. This may be an automated way that they are trying to get information for this.
While I imagine universities are not going to rush to using the last date you showed up in class versus the current date for refund and grading (withdrawal with no grade versus withdrawal-failing/withdrawal-pass, etc.), I could easily see universities using this data in the event of a grade dispute or similar issue.
They are being discriminated against... discriminated against for being dumb. Dumb people are still people, you insensitive clod!
In college, I've been in exactly one class that took attendance. It was Art and Design 101, a 200+ lecture that fulfilled a humanity requirement. The only reason, the prof even said, why she took attendance. No one would show up otherwise.
Compare this to CS 101, where by the end of the semester 15 people would regularly attend lecture, and 150 would attend the exams.
why the continuous necessity to subvert the system?
The problem isn't in having the RFID system. It's the underlying reason that ended up requiring it. It's just a case of trying to fix mistakes with other mistakes. Basically, a poor class and semester planning by the teachers overloads the students so badly that they don't even have time to pee, let alone to themselves and to do homework. To aggravate the situation, a lot of students have to work to support not only themselves but their families. The day has only 24 hours and you need to sleep at least eight (which none of them do). Where do they get the time? From the classes, so they end up doing all the work in class time and attending only the final exams. Hence the class presence rate drops.
Onda Technology Institute
Of course, the survey you cite has close to nothing to do with the GP's point, as it's fundamentally mostly concerned with citations in English language publications. Basically you could have mail-order degrees and still score well, as long as you had decent researchers (or the reputation, friends or money needed to get published anyway).
As a measure of the quality of education it certainly lacks a level of scientific rigour and seems to lack relevance for that subject.
Actually, it generally shows you can cram. It's not the same as real learning. I've seen plenty of students who could ace an exam and still couldn't apply a thing they'd learned in a real situation (even in a lab).
Real world situations mean having to actually use what your know, not simply rattle off facts back to someone. That's a skill you can learn (and should learn) in college, but most exams don't teach that at all.
I hardly think that's the problem.
In college you schedule your own classes. If you overburdened yourself, that's your problem. If you're trying to support a family (and this is very much an exception) perhaps you should be attending part time.
The reason people don't go to class is (a) they know the material and don't feel compelled to go or (b) they don't want to (usually because they're hung-over).
I stressed about exams occasionally as an undergrad too, but neither I nor any of my friends were ever in a position where we couldn't go to class because we had too much studying to do. Actual classroom time was usually ~30 hours/week.
Attendance is required for a lot of reasons but two that I can think of immediately are:
The main point of the first year in most state schools is to get rid of the students that do not belong there and are attending at state expense. Most states have a school like that where 25% of the freshman class isn't there after the first semester. I do not know what NAU is like, but it wouldn't surprise me that it is Arizona's version of Carbondale in Illinois where more like 33% of the freshmen don't come back.
How, precisely, do you 'support the troops'? Do you support them in that you hope they will come back alive? Do you support them in re-integrating into civilian life after discharge? Do you support them by hoping they win their battles? Do you support them in hoping they succeed in their mission?
Although different people would stress different items from your list, a straightforward person would list all of the above.
So by your own words, a straighforward reading of 'support our troops' implies supporting the mission. And you're confused why someone would want to say 'support the troops without supporting the mission'?
If you support the wars in Afghanistan & Iraq, say so. Don't use phrases that confuse concern for the welfare of solders & servicemen with approval of foreign wars.
The English word fart is one of the oldest words in the English vocabulary.
What the hell are you people looking at? I think somebody was vandalizing that wikipedia article to be funny. There are 13 US universities in top 20, 5 from UK, 1 each from Australia, Canada and Switzerland. (yes there are really 21 cause 20th place is shared by Edinburgh and Zurich)
Negative moral value of force outweighs the positive value of good intentions.
Well, if the school has a written money-back guarantee, then it probably should give them their money back.
Last time I checked, though, no serious educational institution worth attending had such a policy. Who would take a guaranteed-passing-or-your-money-back degree seriously? You pay tuition for the privilege of attending, whether or not you make the grade. If you flunk, you come back next semester, or you transfer, or you go see if Macy's is hiring. Schools don't have to defend themselves against whining, they just show you the door.
Great point. Indeed I had a series of terrible professors in college. I honestly believe that their terrible teaching caused me to fail. However, I wouldn't say that it's exactly unfair that I had them -- many in that class had the same professor and they passed, so what exactly would be my cause to sue?
Let's pretend that most of the class failed anyway, and most of this prof's classes fail year-after-year-after-year -- what will happen? Yeah, nothing. You've seen it. I've seen it. There are terrible professors and they get away with it regardless of whether people complain.
Your argument is extremely critical because tracking student attendance for "warranty" purposes is really the only valid business reason for tracking student attendance. Since there is no pedagogical reason, the only other reason can by voyeurism.
What! No Ecoles?!! Moscow State University? What's in here? University of Michigan!!!
This is an Anglophone poll if ever I saw one.
May the Maths Be with you!
Certainly, not every student is going to make it.
But if it takes an electronic leash to fill your classroom, you're doing it wrong. :-)
He put his boots up on the table and made a face. "The sig," he smirked. "You can waste your life in search of the sig."