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Cheap Cancer Drug Finally Tested In Humans

John Bayko writes "Mentioned on Slashdot a couple of years ago, the drug dichloroacetate (DCA) has finally finished its first clinical trial against brain tumors in humans. Drug companies weren't willing to test a drug they could not patent, so money was raised in the community through donations, auctions, and finally government support, but the study was still limited to five patients. It showed extremely positive results in four of them. This episode raises the question of what happens to all the money donated to Canadian and other cancer societies, and especially the billions spent buying merchandise with little pink ribbons on it, if not to actual cancer research like this."

363 comments

  1. Cure? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    There is no money in a cure....

    1. Re:Cure? by SomeJoel · · Score: 5, Interesting

      There is no money in a cure....

      That's a common misconception. While there isn't much direct money involved in a cure, the drug companies still come out way ahead. If people don't die (and aren't even sick really) from cancer, they are more likely to buy other products, such as Viagra, that the drug companies are pushing.

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      <Complete your profile by adding a signature!>
    2. Re:Cure? by Shadow+of+Eternity · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I hate to say it but I'm starting to agree with this. Why would any pharmaceutical company EVER want to actually cure something when they could hook people on treatments for life.

      Especially if they can't patent it, or it's inexpensive.

      --
      A bullet may have your name on it but splash damage is addressed "To whom it may concern."
    3. Re:Cure? by BitZtream · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Viagra is another example of treating the symptoms and not resolving the problem.

      Thats what drug companies love the most, treating the symptoms only and not doing anything to resolve the actual problem.

      There is no profit in cures, just treat the symptoms and make them dependent on you.

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
    4. Re:Cure? by Wyatt+Earp · · Score: 5, Informative

      Well, I've been cured of cancer twice. Three times if you count the relapse.

      Here are the drugs I took

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asparaginase

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercaptopurine

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methotrexate

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vincristine

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prednisolone

      So yea, the drug companies actually cured me.

    5. Re:Cure? by 0100010001010011 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      My dad ha(s|d) cancer.

      ONE chemo bag is $18k. I think he gets 3 per month until it goes into remission.

      I guarantee you there is no way in hell he'd ever spend that much on Viagra or any other drug that someone could possibly use if he lived.

    6. Re:Cure? by oldhack · · Score: 1

      So my drug company would invest in better viagra and let the suckas invest in cures. You are one of them suckas, eh?

      --
      Fuck systemd. Fuck Redhat. Fuck Soylent, too. Wait, scratch the last one.
    7. Re:Cure? by Lando242 · · Score: 1

      The long tail. Sure, they may cure cancer or AIDS but that isn't going to solve all of your health problems. The longer you live the more crap you need to keep your quality of life high and the more money they make. It may cost them billions in R&D, testing and trials to come out with the next miracle drug but they make it all back and then some off of the millions of people that live much longer lives. Not to mention the money they make on the cure itself. It is pretty true about your last statement though. If they can't make any money off the cure they wont bother.

    8. Re:Cure? by Stick32 · · Score: 1

      There is no money in a cure....

      That's a common misconception. While there isn't much direct money involved in a cure, the drug companies still come out way ahead. If people don't die (and aren't even sick really) from cancer, they are more likely to buy other products, such as Viagra, that the drug companies are pushing.

      Or they could just come up with a treatment, make sure it doesn't interfere with Viagra and then charge you double for the rest of your life...

    9. Re:Cure? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      When people come to Slashdot and talk about creationism, atheist and communist conspiracies, the community normally pisses on them extremely quickly.

      Yet time and time again, the half-spoken, implicit, veiled theory appears: drug companies don't want to cure diseases, they intentionally avoid developing cures, because that would lose them money.

      Why?

    10. Re:Cure? by interkin3tic · · Score: 4, Insightful

      There is no money in a cure....

      Skepticism is always warranted with an industry as large, corrupt, but ultimately essential as the pharmaceutical industry. Still, that goes into paranoia. No money in a cure? Perhaps you missed the very last line of TFA

      [glioblastoma patient] average survival is 14 to 16 months with standard treatments.

      This is not a disease that the industry is making money off stringing along patients rather than curing them. There's no stringing along. You die of it. You never become a continuous customer for the drug company. Hospitals might make a lot of money from them, and I don't know the standard treatment. I'd guess it's more surgical and pallative care with glioblastoma.

      The second to last line also speaks against the idea that the cure is being suppressed: a quote by some professional suggesting that the drug would extend the lives of these patients. Not cure, extend. If you were right and they just want people to hang on to suck up more treatment, they'd be aggressively testing this, possibly in combination with a drug they -can- patent and make a bunch of money off of.

      Anyway, any given research team has a huge interest in a bona-fide cure for cancer. That would probably be the quickest awarded nobel prize right there. Even if you were working for a company that had a financial interest in not actually curing cancer and you'd get fired, you wouldn't sit on it.

    11. Re:Cure? by BobMcD · · Score: 4, Informative

      There is no profit in cures, just treat the symptoms and make them dependent on you.

      You're missing the author's point. Your two combined statements would read as:

      There is no profit in cures, except wherein the condition would result in the death of the patient.

      Dead patient means no more profit. Yeah?

    12. Re:Cure? by MediaCastleX · · Score: 0

      Hey, as long as it *looks* like someone's doing something, no one will mind that we'll NEVER see a cure for anything...

    13. Re:Cure? by Gr8Apes · · Score: 2, Interesting

      After reading TFA, it does not appear that this is a cure per se, just that it halts the growth of active tumors. It seems that much more research is needed.

      So, where's the Gates Foundation on this one? It seems a perfect avenue for them to do some good for humanity with only a small amount of money spent.

      --
      The cesspool just got a check and balance.
    14. Re:Cure? by bunratty · · Score: 3, Funny

      You clearly have no idea of the magnitude of the conspiracy to suppress the cure for cancer. All those cancer researchers just want to get rich from the grant money by doing more "research"!

      --
      What a fool believes, he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.
    15. Re:Cure? by Venik · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Yet time and time again, the half-spoken, implicit, veiled theory appears: drug companies don't want to cure diseases, they intentionally avoid developing cures, because that would lose them money. Why?

      Probably because it makes sense. Most pharmaceutical companies are publicly traded and their primary obligation is to the shareholders and not to the customers. If you can charge a customer fifty grand for one course of chemo treatment for the rest of his life, then what is the incentive to find a cure? It's the process that makes them money, not the end result.

      A tearful story usually follows comments like mine: what about all those wonderfully dedicated researchers working for the pharmaceutical companies day and night searching for the cure? Well, I follow the news, so I am sure I will hear if they actually cure cancer.

    16. Re:Cure? by westlake · · Score: 1

      There is no money in a cure....

      Of course there is.

      Your customers die at age ninety and not forty-five. Your investment in a cure just might lead you towards a much deeper ubderstanding of aging and disease.

    17. Re:Cure? by Arthur+Grumbine · · Score: 4, Funny

      Yeah, well, you are Wyatt Earp. There's no way you're going lose out to cancer.
      ...

      Oh...right...uhm...yeah. Sorry, dude, I didn't know.

      --
      Now that I think about it, I'm pretty sure everything I just said is completely wrong.
    18. Re:Cure? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The less people that die from cancer eventually means more death from other diseases. If I were selling heart disease medicine, I would want less cancer deaths. I would also invest in things that would cause people to get heart disease.

    19. Re:Cure? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If it came back, then you weren't cured.

      Cancer itself is a fucking symptom people, look it up.

      The disease/illness is damage to the cells self destruct system.
      Fix that, and cancer never comes back.

    20. Re:Cure? by ameline · · Score: 2, Funny

      > there is no way in hell he'd ever spend that much on Viagra

      Of course he wouldn't -- he would spend 6k on the hookers, 6 on the viagra, and 6 on the blow. :-)

      (I hope your dad gets well.)

      --
      Ian Ameline
    21. Re:Cure? by Wyatt+Earp · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Actually...

      I had ALL for two years. Was declared to be cured (I have the record of that in my medical records on dead tree), then when I went in for a blood count check, I'd relapsed with cancer in another organ. So two more years of chemo.

      Then...six years after that, I was diagnosed with yet another cancer.

      Then 17 years after that, a non-cancerous tumor.

    22. Re:Cure? by FatdogHaiku · · Score: 4, Funny

      If people don't die (and aren't even sick really) from cancer, they are more likely to buy other products, such as Viagra, that the drug companies are pushing.

      For erections lasting longer than four hours, try new Woodbegone!!!
      Available in "100mg", "200mg", and "Damn, where'd my dick go?" sizes.

      --
      You have the right to remain sentient. If you give up the right to remain sentient, you will be elected to public office
    23. Re:Cure? by Wyatt+Earp · · Score: 1

      I hope I can make it to 80, I was given six months to live in 1980, so I reckon I might be ornery enough to make it.

    24. Re:Cure? by PopeRatzo · · Score: 5, Informative

      Why?

      Let's look at a case study.

      There was a time when the most profitable drugs were anti-ulcer medicines. Surgeries for fixing ulcers were also big money-makers and they even developed rubber patches for peoples' stomachs to repair ulcers that didn't respond to the medicines.

      Some (publicly-funded) research found that ulcers were actually caused by bacteria not stomach acid, and could be cured with an extremely cheap course of ant-biotics. The drug companies had done some basic research on this and did not publish. There was more than half a decade when drug companies knew that cheap antibiotics could cure ulcers but did nothing about it. It finally took government-funded researchers to publish and within half a year, the anti-ulcer drugs fell off the top ten, and even the top 100 of prescribed drugs.

      During the time when it was known that ulcers could be cured with antibiotics, drug companies spent millions of dollars on marketing the anti-ulcer drugs to doctors, even convincing them that these drugs should be used to prevent ulcers in patients that had no symptoms. Since calcium phosphate was one of the ingredients of some of these drugs, they were pushed for osteoporosis therapy for women, even though simple calcium supplements cost pennies by comparison.

      Do drug companies put profits ahead of patients? Undoubtedly. It's what happens when the ownership of a company is no longer the person who's name is on the sign, but equity owners who see their ownership in the company as a simple investment, and don't care at all about what the company does or how it does it, as long as the stock price rises. The desire for profit becomes a much stronger force than the desire to do the right thing, because corporations are not people, and will never care about the "right thing". This is the disconnect that gives the lie to any "free market" benefit to society.

      If I'm the owner of the Pope Ratzo Cabinet Company, I care about the satisfaction of the customers who buy my cabinets. Along with the desire to profit is a natural desire to be known as the guy who makes the best cabinets. When I sell the company to a conglomerate, there is no longer a connection of reputation, or even the raw peer pressure I would feel if the lead paint on my cabinets were to harm someone. Now the investors are the owners, and they don't know squat about cabinets. They just know profits. Add "tort reform" and "liability limits" and suddenly there's no downside if people get hurt because the company does something wrong. It's just added to the cost of doing business.

      Acquisition and consolidation creates fewer competitors. Globalization grows the scope of the remaining companies until the cost to get into the business to compete becomes so great that it's impossible for new competitors to come from anywhere but venture capital, where the "name on the sign" is pushed out of the way as quickly as possible. No responsibility, no accountability in the marketplace, since customers don't really have many options to find a competitor.

      What was the last time a doctor prescribed or recommended aspirin, which is far superior to any of the more expensive "anti-inflammatory" medicines which are used for arthritis, pain, etc? I can buy aspirin, a wonderdrug, safe and effective (even perhaps beneficial) for $1.99 for a bottle of 500.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    25. Re:Cure? by Lunix+Nutcase · · Score: 1

      There is no money in a cure....

      How so? Just because you cure current people of cancer doesn't mean that more people aren't still going to develop it too. Considering how people are living longer and longer the probability of cancer of this individual getting cancer of some form goes up. The drug companies still have a huge potential supply of people to sell the cure to.

    26. Re:Cure? by similar_name · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure I follow your post. Are you saying you do or don't think their was/is an underlying problem that is causing cancer to develop?

    27. Re:Cure? by sjames · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Generic drug means very little profit (comparatively speaking). Patented drug is a lot of profit. Unless, of course, there is a safe and equally effective generic drug already out there. So, they would MUCH prefer no existing treatment while they try to cook up an expensive designer drug.

    28. Re:Cure? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      One thing to note is that there is no such thing as "curing cancer"... or even "curing lung cancer". The problem is that cancer is not a single disease. Yeah, sure, they all have symptoms in common, e.g. rapid and uncontrolled cell proliferation, but that doesn't mean it's all the same.

      Cancer arises when there is a defect in one or more genes that regulate cell growth and development. These defects are not all identical. One might break a receptor that signals the cell to die when it malfunctions. Another might cause a "time-to-grow" signalling pathway to always be turned on.

      To put things in computing terms, if you have a number of different software programs that are buggy in the same way, does it necessarily follow that the coding fix will be the same in each one?

      I realize that the idea of different types of lung cancer (or brain cancer or what have you) is a new one to most people. Heck, it's only recently that companies are doing research on drugs that kill "lung cancer type A" vs. all lung cancer. But that's the direction things are moving in. One day the doctor may be sequencing the genome of your cancer to determine which drug to put you on for maximum effect.

    29. Re:Cure? by camperdave · · Score: 2, Insightful

      their primary obligation is to the shareholders and not to the customers.

      You know, I don't really understand this line of thinking. The customers are where the money comes in. Shareholders are, for the most part these days, automated trading computers and mutual funds. Shareholders come and go like the wind. Furthermore, every shareholder goes in with the understanding that there may not be a profit. If you treat your customers poorly just so you can show a profit to the shareholders, then you will lose your customers, your profit, and your shareholders. However, if your primary obligation is to the customer, then you will generate more profit, and please the shareholders.

      --
      When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
    30. Re:Cure? by sjames · · Score: 1

      Here the point is simple. They don't want a cheap generic drug to be proven helpful, they want an expensive patented drug that does the same thing. That's why none of them have spent any money at all on testing the generic. They'll test just as soon as they get a patent on something they can charge tens of thousands a dose for.

      It's a perfect example of why public funding is absolutely essential to medical research. There is no amount of market manipulation that will make big pharma interested in drugs like this.

    31. Re:Cure? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's just absurd. Smallpox used to be the biggest threat to our species, and it's gone now. These days, we're actually living long enough to worry about things like cancer. If cancer gets cured, and the average life expectancy jumps a decade or two, we'll discover some rare condition that isn't much of a worry now is starting to take out huge numbers of us.

    32. Re:Cure? by geekoid · · Score: 2, Insightful

      FALSE.

      Lets look at this, shall we?
      A cure boost stock prices, hurts you competitors, and gets C*Os a ton of cash in the form of bonuses. i.e. get stinking rich.

      Unless top management is so kind hearted that want to be sure revenue is around for there predecessor and other companies your statement make no sense.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    33. Re:Cure? by geekoid · · Score: 1

      Now imagine how much a company could charge for a cure?

      They could charge 40K, and the insurance companies would be happy to pay.

      Mom mom is going through chemo. The number of whack a loons that come out of the wood work just drives me nuts.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    34. Re:Cure? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      "There is no amount of market manipulation that will make big pharma interested in drugs like this."

      End the patent system. The only reason they aren't interested in this drug is because the government is granting them monopolies on other ones, making them far more profitable.

    35. Re:Cure? by gd23ka · · Score: 1

      You obviously don't understand the goal here. It isn't about "making money", when it is they who _create_ the money in the first place. Revisit "Brave New World" again.
      The true profit, the yard-stick by which pharma and the medical industry is measured is number of deaths and infertilities. They're doing a good job.

    36. Re:Cure? by shadowbearer · · Score: 1

        Not everybody gets cancer, or dies from it. There are a lot of other diseases or problems that humans are subject to that the drug companies develop and sell possible remedies for. While it might be true in your Dad's case, it's not necessarily going to be true for when applied across everyone.

        I hope your Dad gets well, too. I just lost another friend (6 in four years now) to cancer a few months ago, and it still hurts. Best wishes for him and your family.

        (I used to think that there weren't people out there so callous that they would not want a cure for cancer, or AIDS, etc, but given the recent economic fiascoes, I no longer believe that strongly...)

      SB

      --
      It's old. The more humans I meet, the more I like my cats. At least they are honest.
    37. Re:Cure? by interkin3tic · · Score: 1

      Here the point is simple. They don't want a cheap generic drug to be proven helpful, they want an expensive patented drug that does the same thing.

      It would be rash to say this drug is proven at this point based off of 5 test subjects, but yes I am aware of the case. I was specifically responding to AC's suggestion that the drug industry has no interest in actually curing people of cancer.

    38. Re:Cure? by Wyatt+Earp · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Of course there was an underlying issue(s), but the two cancers I've had and the non malignant tumor all have different underlying issues.

    39. Re:Cure? by westlake · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I guarantee you there is no way in hell he'd ever spend that much on Viagra or any other drug that someone could possibly use if he lived

      Your Dad perhaps not.

      The kid diagnosed with cancer at age ten who survives into his mid-eighties? That's a much tougher question to answer.

      What would you be willing to pay over twenty-five years, fifty years, for a greatly extended, vigorous and productive, old age free of cancer, heart disease and stroke, arthritis, diabeties, Alzheimer's, COPD...? $20K, $50K, $100K? More?

    40. Re:Cure? by shellster_dude · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Generic drug means very little profit (comparatively speaking). Patented drug is a lot of profit. Unless, of course, there is a safe and equally effective generic drug already out there. So, they would MUCH prefer no existing treatment while they try to cook up an expensive designer drug.

      While there is much truth in your statement, you must take into consideration the enormous risk and cost of bringing a new drug to market. So in some ways, generic drugs still make a lot of profit because there is virtually no risk or overhead in the process.

    41. Re:Cure? by twidarkling · · Score: 1

      Except in cases like this, "losing the customers" doesn't mean they go to a different company, it means the customer died. And a dead customer is one you don't need to worry about any more. So, in a case where the customer's choice is "pay or die," you don't need to give a shit about them. Few people are going to willingly choose death.

      --
      Canada: The US's more awesome sibling.
    42. Re:Cure? by telomerewhythere · · Score: 1

      If you treat your customers poorly just so you can show a profit to the shareholders, then you will lose your customers, your profit, and your shareholders. However, if your primary obligation is to the customer, then you will generate more profit, and please the shareholders.

      I agree that would be smart, but look at cell phone companies or cable companies, or health insurance companies. While the customer may actually be first, it really does not appear that way to most outside observers.

      What may be a good way to gauge the soundness of the logic is to ask, 'Are drug companies altruistic?'

      Another valid consideration is how little is even known about why/how diseases happen. From what I understand about drug research is that it is not much better than shooting in the dark and listening for a thud. I found this subheading and the next in Wikipedia about drug discovery an interesting read.

      Really, for a 'cure' of many things, the technology to deliver to every cell in the body and insert in the right place modified DNA needs to be developed, as I see it.

    43. Re:Cure? by shellster_dude · · Score: 1

      If what you say is the case (I believe you are full of crap), then explain this to me: If a cancer cure is easy and cheap to manufacture, and drug companies are as unscrupulous as you say, then how come one of them doesn't release a cure, patent it, and then charge ungodly amounts of money? Sure, all the other drug companies would be screwed, but that one drug company would own the entire market, cut their competitors out of business, and rake in profits hand-over-fist. There will always be cancer, the guy who has the patent and the cure will make obscene profits. That doesn't even take into account all the future profits they will make from these people because they are still alive.

      People who come up with these conspiracy theories of how drug companies don't release cures, truly don't understand how the market works. Your theory is analogous to saying that military weapon creators don't create more powerful or high-tech weapons because they don't want too many potential customers to be killed off too quickly.

    44. Re:Cure? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How about it, these smallpox drugs are costing me a fortune.

    45. Re:Cure? by Martin+Blank · · Score: 5, Interesting

      That depends very much on your doctor. I was recently found to be very deficient in Vitamin D. The traditional course of therapy is 50,000IU per week for a month. He could have written out a prescription, but instead wrote out a lab request and attached a Post-It with the words "50K units Vit D/wk." I asked if there was anything special I should look for, and he said, "Just make sure it says 'Vitamin D' on the front of the label." For $8, I got two months' regimen. I need to go back in for testing to make sure that it's recovered, and will be taking 5000 units per week until I can find a better way to get direct sunlight on a regular basis, but that's really it.

      One of his colleagues on call a couple of months earlier when I got severe overnight upper-abdominal pains suggested that I could either go to the ER (in case it was appendicitis) or he could write out a prescription for something to tend to the symptoms (in case it was just a really bad gastrointestinal virus or food poisoning). I chose the latter, since the pains were upper abdominal and there was no firmness anywhere in my abdominal area. I had to have someone else get the prescription, as I couldn't drive to the pharmacy, but $60 got 100 tablets of each of the two generic medicines. It took a couple of days to pass, and I lost a good deal of weight, but I didn't have to shell out for the ER plus whatever other charges might have come along with a day or two in the hospital.

      Interview your doctors, people. Ask them how they feel about pharmaceutical marketing, and their preferred approaches. Find one that makes you comfortable. Mine is old-school, and would rather his patients tend to themselves than rely on pills, and that's how I prefer to approach it as well.

      --
      You can never go home again... but I guess you can shop there.
    46. Re:Cure? by mpaulsen · · Score: 1

      > there is no way in hell he'd ever spend that much on Viagra >> Of course he wouldn't -- he would spend 6k on the hookers, 6 on the viagra, and 6 on the blow. :-) ...and the rest he'd just squander.

    47. Re:Cure? by meow27 · · Score: 1

      what nonsense are you talking about? everyone knows that raw money (lots of $100 bills) is the cure to aids! just ask Magic Johnson!

    48. Re:Cure? by magarity · · Score: 3, Interesting

      There is no money in a cure....

      That's a common misconception

       
      You've mis-concepted the concept; there's a LOT more money for University medical centers in researching cures than there is in actually finding a cure.
       
      The money for merchandise with pink ribbons should go in a bounty pool. Bounties, rather than never ending research grants, are the way to find hard solutions.

    49. Re:Cure? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      The skepticism pains me. If could cure cancer with an off-patent drug, I would do it in a hearbeat. The cancer center I work at would want to do this. It would make them more famous and get me promoted. But of course, the overriding reason to do it is that *it is helping people* which is why me and my colleagues chose our line of work!

      BTW - as cheap as aspirin is, as an irreversible COX inhibitor, it has higher GI toxicity and bleeding risk that other anti-inflammatory drugs. If aspirin were up for approval today, the FDA would not approve it for anything other than casdiovascular prevention at its lowest dose. There are safer drugs that are just as good. And just as cheap - acetaminophen, ibuprofen, and naprosyn come to mind depending on the scenario.

    50. Re:Cure? by CheshireCatCO · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Some (publicly-funded) research found that ulcers were actually caused by bacteria not stomach acid, and could be cured with an extremely cheap course of ant-biotics. The drug companies had done some basic research on this and did not publish. There was more than half a decade when drug companies knew that cheap antibiotics could cure ulcers but did nothing about it. It finally took government-funded researchers to publish and within half a year, the anti-ulcer drugs fell off the top ten, and even the top 100 of prescribed drugs.

      Not that I really doubt your point that corporations don't really care about costumers, but I have to ask: source? This is a fairly egregious example of lying by omission and before I repeat it, I want a solid source.

    51. Re:Cure? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Let's look at a case study.

      Some (publicly-funded) research found that ulcers were actually caused by bacteria not stomach acid, and could be cured with an extremely cheap course of ant-biotics. The drug companies had done some basic research on this and did not publish. There was more than half a decade when drug companies knew that cheap antibiotics could cure ulcers but did nothing about it. It finally took government-funded researchers to publish and within half a year, the anti-ulcer drugs fell off the top ten, and even the top 100 of prescribed drugs.

      [Citation needed]

    52. Re:Cure? by Martin+Blank · · Score: 2, Insightful

      A friend works in a urology clinic. Based on her descriptions of how priapism is handled, Woodbegone could be a significant seller. (Hint: treatment for aggressive priapism involves the erection and one or two needles. It's done under local anesthetic, but still...)

      --
      You can never go home again... but I guess you can shop there.
    53. Re:Cure? by bunratty · · Score: 2, Funny

      It's a joke, son.

      --
      What a fool believes, he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.
    54. Re:Cure? by CubicleView · · Score: 1

      So you're saying that the "Big Pharma's" should do the research? You're post is attacking the man more than the argument I think. I didn't read the article but I got the impression that the drug is cheap because it probably can't be patented for whatever reason. If that's the case I presume there would be nothing to stop another company immediately selling the drug on the back of the "Big Pharma's" research. So it's no surprise then that it's left to a charity to do the research.

    55. Re:Cure? by sjames · · Score: 2, Informative

      For someone so stuffed full of himself, you don't read very well do you?

      Where did *I* say they don't want a cure? I said they don't want a cheap generic cure (as in something already approved for use in humans that is already made generically), they want an expensive patented one.

      How's that for a fact dumb ass? (you started it :-)

    56. Re:Cure? by Sir_Dill · · Score: 1

      Shareholders are, for the most part these days, automated trading computers and mutual funds. Shareholders come and go like the wind. Furthermore, every shareholder goes in with the understanding that there may not be a profit. If you treat your customers poorly just so you can show a profit to the shareholders, then you will lose your customers, your profit, and your shareholders. However, if your primary obligation is to the customer, then you will generate more profit, and please the shareholders.

      This is a good point about the reality of what "shareholders" mean in today's economy. While probably true for the majority of shareholders, it is probably not true about the majority shareholders. That said there seems to have been a shift in business ethics in the last 20 years.

      Now I am not saying that everything has gone to hell in a hand basket for this or that reason nor am I looking on our past with rose colored glasses.

      With recent and not so recent scandals, time and time again we hear a company line about making profit for our shareholders is our goal while still providing a product(or service) we believe in.
      This is the problem.
      It should be Providing a quality product/service we believe in while maintaining profitability for our shareholders.

      They really aren't putting the customers and products first and consumers are starting to see that.

      Regardless of whether shareholders are people banging down the door when things are going bad, its more about decisions being made about which drugs get funding based not on effectiveness but rather on marketability.

      Consider that the attitude of many large companies is profitability first. This is what happens when you have a board made up of people who were not the founders. Once a company outlives the life of the individuals who started it, its direction naturally shifts towards maintaining profitability and growth.
      Decisions are made based on profit margins and costs which drives efforts towards markets that are producing profit. No longer is the company's vision that of an individual but rather its a formula of corporate survival. Its not necessarily a malevolent drive, but it does tend to be devoid of empathy and accountability. So instead of one mans drive to improve the world or whatever, its about growing the brand.
      New treatments mean new profits.
      New cures mean that ultimately that product will no longer be needed which, when you consider the costs of bringing a new drug to market and the R&D costs and if the ailment being cured is sufficiently rare enough, even if they have a 100% cure, it won't get funding because on paper, there's no profit in it. For the people suffering from that ailment it definitely looks like the drug companies don't "care about a cure"

      What it really boils down to is that we aren't really learning anything, we're just inventing new bandaids. Once we're sufficiently knowledgeable in genetics and understanding just how our metabolism works, I have a feeling that drug companies may not be needed for much outside of pain management and other transient problems where manipulating cellular tissue wouldn't help.

      The fact that someone found a naturally occurring substance that happens to work for a particular problem but didn't want to test further for whatever reason isn't really the point though is it?

      Its a question of the millions of dollars in donations going to cancer research, if this sort of thing ISN'T what those charities are about, then where is the money going?

      Its part of a larger "Awakening" that I think is happening where people snap out of it and start asking for some sort of accountability for charities and companies. Take some responsibility and take some pride in your business. I think people should ask themselves, "what would my mother say if she knew I made this decision?"or"would I be embarrassed if this decision made the front page?". Too often it seems the answer is, well if I don't get caught it won't matter and the odds are that I won't get caught since nobody is looking.

    57. Re:Cure? by DrCode · · Score: 1

      I recently went to a doctor with a sinus infection. She told me it was most likely viral so there was no point in prescribing antibiotics, and the best thing I could do would be to use a nasal rinse, available for about $13 at the drug store (and which I already owned).

      Maybe the problem isn't the doctors, but the heavy advertising by the drug companies which encourages people to demand prescriptions regardless of their costs or actual benefits.

    58. Re:Cure? by Naturalis+Philosopho · · Score: 1, Insightful

      there is virtually no risk or overhead in the process

      Except for the fact that we're discussing an unproven drug. If a drug company goes to the expense of proving something that's already a generic, then their competitors can produce it right away without having had the cost of running the trials. That doesn't make sense from a business/competitiveness standpoint. Nor was there a guarantee that this trial was going to pan out resulting in any usable drug at all, even a lower-profit one. Don't underestimate the gobs of money that are made on patentable drugs. It may be a crap shoot for the company to test a patentable drug, but the payoff of the few good bets really does pay off the bad ones and leave enough left over for some nice executive houses and company jets.

    59. Re:Cure? by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      as cheap as aspirin is, as an irreversible COX inhibitor, it has higher GI toxicity and bleeding risk that other anti-inflammatory drugs.

      And still has fewer side effects than Advil or (god-forbid) any of the "super" anti-inflammatories that the pharmas were sued over.

      And just as cheap - acetaminophen, ibuprofen, and naprosyn come to mind depending on the scenario.

      All are more expensive and less effective than aspirin. And Pharma is trying to replace even those with even more dangerous, even less effective replacements, as long as there's a patent.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    60. Re:Cure? by bit01 · · Score: 1

      The desire for profit becomes a much stronger force than the desire to do the right thing, because corporations are not people, and will never care about the "right thing". This is the disconnect that gives the lie to any "free market" benefit to society.

      Yes. Another disconnect is the way that corporate structures give perverse monetary incentives. Corporate structures are supposed to protect shareholder's investment from going below zero. Problem is, that risk doesn't go away, it's simply transferred to the entities that the corporation deals with, employees, customers and suppliers. That creates disincentives for shareholders to care about the the operation of the company as much as they should and makes life more risky for everybody else. While technically it's illegal for a company to trade while insolvent in practice it happens all the time because of the difficulty of rationally valuing things like customer good will or prospects and the natural human tendency of directors to hide their failures.

      ---

      How many million man hours has the advertising industry cost today?

    61. Re:Cure? by oddTodd123 · · Score: 4, Funny

      I need to go back in for testing to make sure that it's recovered, and will be taking 5000 units per week until I can find a better way to get direct sunlight on a regular basis, but that's really it.

      I'd start with leaving the basement.

    62. Re:Cure? by hhawk · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I think the real issue is the insurance / liability costs of releasing a drug in the US; we need Tort reform.

      --
      http://www.hawknest.com/
    63. Re:Cure? by PopeRatzo · · Score: 5, Informative

      [Citation needed]

      This is the best I can do with short notice

      Note especially the timeline at the bottom of the article.

      By "medical establishment" they mean "the pharmaceutical industry".

      Here is what happened in 1984:

      A paper describing Marshall and Warren's results is accepted by the Gastroenterological Society of Australia for presentation.[37]
              Marshall and Goodwin attempt to infect pigs with H. pylori in an attempt to demonstrate that it causes PUD. The experiment fails.[37]
              Marshall and Warren's paper is accepted by The Lancet in May and published in June. Many reviewers dislike the paper.[37]
              McNulty and Watson are able to reproduce Marshall and Warren's results.[40]
              June 12 - Marshall intentionally consumes H. pylori and becomes ill. He takes antibiotics and is relieved of his symptoms.[37]
              The National Health and Medical Research Council of Australia fully funds Marshall's research into H. pylori.[37]
              A study is published in China about the effectiveness of treating PUD with an antibacterial agent.[30]

      It was demonstrated that penicillin could cure ulcers as early as 1955, but it wasn't until 1994 when the patents ran out for the anti-ulcer drugs that "the medical establishment" started to pay attention to the fact that H. pylori infection was the cause of ulcers, not stress or spicy food.

      Note that Warren and Marshall's research is fully funded by The National Health and Medical Research Council of Australia. In other words, "the government". Not the free market. Not the pharmaceutical industry. The Government.

      In 2005, Warren and Marshall win the Nobel Prize in Medicine.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    64. Re:Cure? by ArsonSmith · · Score: 2, Funny

      If you're paying $6,000 on a hooker you may want to get more than $6 worth of Viagra and blow.

      --
      Paying taxes to buy civilization is like paying a hooker to buy love.
    65. Re:Cure? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      hookers, not hooker. Be reasonable.

    66. Re:Cure? by ArsonSmith · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Your argument falls apart when it comes to chemotherapy. That is purely done to cure. The side effects are often much worse then the general discomfort of cancer aside from the finally dieing part. My father finally said no more. He wanted to live his last few months with at least some energy and well being.

      --
      Paying taxes to buy civilization is like paying a hooker to buy love.
    67. Re:Cure? by ArsonSmith · · Score: 1

      my question still stands.

      --
      Paying taxes to buy civilization is like paying a hooker to buy love.
    68. Re:Cure? by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      I want a solid source.

      As you should.

      See below for citations. Follow my link for further citations galore from the first treatment of peptic ulcers with penicillin in 1955 to the Nobel Prize in Medicine in 2005. It's pretty shocking, but in the end an example of what can be done when there is public funding for medical research that is not tied to profits.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    69. Re:Cure? by Khashishi · · Score: 1

      Damn right. I've been waiting for a cure for valley fever for years. Been taking expensive meds for years which only halt the progression of the disease. I was very hopeful of this new drug called Nikkomycin Z, which eradicated the disease in mice and has not produced dangerous side effects in phase I human testing. I was rather depressed when I heard that studies were terminated due to lack of funding and recruitment challenges. It's true, nobody will fund research for a cure, even at this point, when probability for success is high.

    70. Re:Cure? by FatdogHaiku · · Score: 3, Funny

      Jeez, just telling the dude what you are going to do should wilt most guys... "Well Mr. Smith, we are going to restore blood flow by installing a couple of drains via these big ass needles... ah, I see it's no longer needed..."

      --
      You have the right to remain sentient. If you give up the right to remain sentient, you will be elected to public office
    71. Re:Cure? by izomiac · · Score: 1

      Yes, that's why no cancer is curable. It's a death sentence, just like several decades ago. Drug companies simply make high-priced chemotherapy to squeeze out as much money as possible before you succumb to your illness.

      Cancer mortality is measured by 5, 10, 15, 20 year survival rates, you wouldn't be able to tolerate chemotherapy, surgery, or radiation for anywhere near that long. So, if people aren't being treated, suffering symptoms, or dead, what does that imply?

      Or, look at it from a business case. Company A has a cheap drug that cures the condition. Company B has an expensive drug that treats, but doesn't cure it. Which company's drug makes more money? Alternately, it takes ~10 years and a billion dollars to make a drug. Are you going to gamble that much on nobody coming out with something superior before you're able to recoup your investment? Or are you going to cure the condition and ensure there's no highly profitable potential market left for your competitors?

      For the last paragraph to not be true, there'd have to be collusion of some sort. Do you really think that nobody would spill the beans on that? It'd be squandering trillions and costing millions of lives each year, so could everyone privy to that information really have no morality at all? Or would the aging politicians turn a blind eye to something that would hasten their own mortality? Perhaps the scare-mongering media would keep quiet about it.

    72. Re:Cure? by yukk · · Score: 1

      You'd be surprised. I bet the insurance companies would make the patient go through $120k of chemo sessions at $20k per shot before they'd consider the $40k outlay. Somehow it must work out better on their spreadsheets. That is unless they had to pay for more than 2 or 3 sessions in a month. Then they might do it. I dislike insurance companies. They're a necessary evil for most people but still an unnecessarily evil one.

      --
      The trouble with the rat race is that even if you win, you're still a rat." Lily Tomlin
    73. Re:Cure? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Less facts, more conspiracy theories advanced by people who assume that their tech knowledge transfers laterally into other fields. This is Slashdot, get with it!

    74. Re:Cure? by nbauman · · Score: 1

      Some (publicly-funded) research found that ulcers were actually caused by bacteria not stomach acid, and could be cured with an extremely cheap course of ant-biotics. The drug companies had done some basic research on this and did not publish. There was more than half a decade when drug companies knew that cheap antibiotics could cure ulcers but did nothing about it. It finally took government-funded researchers to publish and within half a year, the anti-ulcer drugs fell off the top ten, and even the top 100 of prescribed drugs.

      Since this is Slashdot, I'm not surprised to get a confused story, but if anyone is interested here's the Wikipedia entry on what actually happened.
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helicobacter_pylori#History

      Marshall and Warren did win a Nobel Prize for this, so it wasn't exactly ignored. http://nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/medicine/laureates/2005/index.html

    75. Re:Cure? by OnePumpChump · · Score: 1

      Is that in the US?

    76. Re:Cure? by nbauman · · Score: 1

      There is no money in a cure....

      That's why you're better off if your doctor is motivated by the desire to cure you rather than by the desire to make money.

      There are such doctors, although that may be difficult for Americans to believe.

      There are even American doctors like that.

    77. Re:Cure? by SlowGenius · · Score: 1

      Try taking 5000 units of D per day, not per week, and seriously consider doing that for the rest of your life unless/until you move someplace at least semitropical where you can get a good sunbathing session in every week. And despite what your doctor says about "just make sure it says Vitamin D on the front of the label", you (a)probably want to make that Vitamin D3 (cholecalciferol), not Vitamin D2 (ergocalciferol), and (b) probably do NOT want a formulation with extra calcium in it.

      --
      Listen to what I say, not what I mean...
    78. Re:Cure? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This made my day.
      Thanks.

    79. Re:Cure? by Martin+Blank · · Score: 1

      The US RDA is for 200 units per day at my age, and while it's hard to get hypervitaminosis D, there's no real need for 35,000 units per week unless you're seriously deficient. Even 5000 per week is almost four times the recommended dose.

      --
      You can never go home again... but I guess you can shop there.
    80. Re:Cure? by wvmarle · · Score: 1

      Maybe that doctor should have suggested you to go and catch a little more sunlight. Something like 30 mins a day of exposing face and arms should do the job. And sunlight tends to make people feel happy as a free bonus.

    81. Re:Cure? by budgenator · · Score: 4, Interesting

      UC Davis team finds need for much higher RDAs
      A UC Davis research team led by assistant professor Laura M. Hall, Ph.D., made two findings.

      Both are sobering in terms of average vitamin D intakes in America and somewhat unsurprising to folks who follow vitamin D research:

              *
                  Light-skinned people need at least 1300 International Units (IU) per day during the winter.
              *
                  Dark-skinned people need 2100 to 3100 IU per day during the winter and throughout the rest of the year.

      The recommendation for light-skinned people holds even if they get abundant sun exposure, so those who get little sun exposure need even more dietary vitamin D.

      But the recommendation for dark-skinned people holds true even for those who get more sun exposure than average.Vitamin D RDAs Fall Far Short in Winter

      I take 2000 IU a day and generally feel much better.

      --
      Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
    82. Re:Cure? by uncqual · · Score: 1

      Your argument falls apart when it comes to chemotherapy. That is purely done to cure.

      Chemotherapy is, in fact, also used to extend life for some terminally ill cancer patients (such as some cases of stage IV colon cancer).

      --
      Why is there an "insightful" mod and why isn't it "-1"? If I wanted insight, I wouldn't be reading /.
    83. Re:Cure? by The+Hatchet · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Sure, there is money in a cure, but no drug company that can come up with a therapy will dare make a cure. And the economics behind it is simple. First of all, a corporation is driven by stockholders, whom the very vast majority of only care about profit (or at least all those that matter to the decision making). The more profit, the better. Every last cent you can squeeze out of each customer ends up in the bank account of a shareholder, and because they make the decisions, so it is. If a drug company creates a therapy or treatment, they can string people on for millions and do basically nothing at all. If they develop a cure, then an illness is just something which we can move forward from, and they either make much less, or get called out big time on unjustified costs to dying, desperate consumers. Therapies make you appear to care, but overcharging for cures makes you look sick. If you make a cure, you lose the potential to make a lot more money, and in economic terms, that is as good as losing money from your bank account. Sure it is terrible, sick and wrong, but that is how modern business works. It needs to be changed, because it is harming every business from our health, to our food, to our electronics and entertainment. Everything you buy, 99.99% of what you pay ends up in the financial sector, or the top brass of involved companies wallet. Imagine the 50's quality of life, and value of a dollar compared to wages. Now imagine 60 years of technological advancement making everything you bought cheaper to make and cheaper to own, while making more money yourself. We should be living like kings, not struggling like hell to get by.

      Also, a few hundred/thousand bucks towards drugs like viagra will never add up the the tens of thousands to millions that those companies can make off of every single cancer patient. Hell, if they could give more people cancer they would be rolling in it, until the day the costs overwhelm yet another system and the financial sector gets another flat and the world gets another recession for it. This kind of half-assed logic and denial based on weak reasoning of something researched a while ago is pathetic. Sure, if you had actually thought about it, you might has something useful to say, but crappy statements like this just slowly divide a populace based on half assed ideas. Try fully engaging in thought before commenting, or at least more than you did here.

      --
      Where is the mod rating for "scary"? Also, ...
    84. Re:Cure? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just not in a zombie apocalypse way please.

    85. Re:Cure? by Jiro · · Score: 2, Informative

      http://www.csicop.org/si/show/bacteria_ulcers_and_ostracism_h._pylori_and_the_making_of_a_myth/

      The bacteria causing ulcers idea has been distorted by the media. It was proven that bacteria caused ulcers, however:

      1) There were in fact a lot of papers published on the subject.
      2) Proving that an infectious agent causes a disease requires being able to reproduce the disease. This did not happen for a while. Even the scientist who experimented on himself didn't actually get an ulcer.
      3) Many healthy people have the same bacteria but don't get ulcers.
      4) The existing non-antibiotic treatments for ulcers did work. The antibiotics just prevented a relapse, and the correct treatment is to use both (i.e. not to avoid the existing anti-ulcer drugs)
      5) The length of time it took for the medical community to accept the theory was reasonable, considering the steps you need to go through to prove it, the length of time required, and the research needed. Trials take time.

      There wasn't any suppression.

    86. Re:Cure? by Jiro · · Score: 1

      "It was demonstrated that penicillin could cure ulcers as early as 1955,"

      No. Causation is not the same as correlation. Saying "someone took penicillin and his ulcer goes away" is not a demonstration that penicillin can cure ulcers, regardless of what incorrect summary is made in a Wikipedia article.

    87. Re:Cure? by fractoid · · Score: 1

      I believe the second and third '6' were 6k, not just $6. I infer this from the original sum mentioned being $18000, not $6012.

      --
      Rampant carbon sequestration destroyed the Dinosaurs' tropical paradise. I'm here to help repair the damage.
    88. Re:Cure? by rs79 · · Score: 1

      "There is no money in a cure...."

      Truer words were never spoken.

      In Suzanne Somers' book 'Knockout' Dr Russell Blaylock says on p157 "The problem is that is has gotten to be such big business. If we found the cure for cancer there would be a terrible economic impact. Hospitals would have to get rid of all their mammogram units; they would get rid of a lot of the CT scanners and MRI scanners. Oncologists would be out of their jobs, radiology units would close. The impact would be hundreds and hundreds of billions of dollars. The pharmaceutical companies would lose major revenuesand that is what keeps research from following a course that would lead to truly curing patients."

      To get an idea of how corrupt big pharma is see: http://rs79.vrx.net/opinions/observations/ghosts/

      Then watch: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vq63CZNYw6I

      I've met people whose cancer has been reversed by this stuff.

      Not also that the mechanism by which cancer transports glucose into the cell also transports ascorbic acid the same way. Linus Pauling reversed cancer in some poeple with huge doses of C (~ 60-100G/day) given intravenously. Big pharma spent millions "proving" he was a quack and discredited him the same way they did to Abram Hoffer - yet these guys cured thousand of poeple from various disorders just by giving the right molucules in the right doses.

      Read everything here: http://orthomolecular.org/library/jom/

      There will be a book coming out later this year called "What really causes breast cancer" by H.D. Foster. Pay attention to it.

      See also salvestrols.ca and fosterhealth.ca

      Big pharma is not even close to being your friend.

      (no affiliation with any of these)

      --
      Need Mercedes parts ?
    89. Re:Cure? by fractoid · · Score: 1

      Cancer itself is a fucking symptom people, look it up.

      Cancer is a symptom of being too fucking old. You're meant to get married at 14, spend the next eight years having children, then get eaten by a lion in your mid 20s.

      --
      Rampant carbon sequestration destroyed the Dinosaurs' tropical paradise. I'm here to help repair the damage.
    90. Re:Cure? by hvdh · · Score: 1

      CT, MRI scanners and mammo units are needed for cancer screening (detection) and checks during treatment, not for treatment itself.

    91. Re:Cure? by slapys · · Score: 1

      I'm happy to hear that you survived. It must feel great to be alive!

    92. Re:Cure? by sFurbo · · Score: 1

      Yes, who would ever pay to be cured of cancer. /sarcasm

      Now, there might be more money in a treatment, but if good treatments already exist and is either patented by someone else or the patent has run out, you can make quite a lot of money curing people. Plus, when you start researching a drug, it's not always clear if it will become a cure or a treatment. So, after having used billions of dollars on a drug, only to have it be much more effective then expected, do you expect the medicine companies to just throw away that money, or to make as much money as they can on it?

    93. Re:Cure? by Neuticle · · Score: 1

      I realized after I hit "Submit" that my long-winded screed about prescriptions wasn't really all that on-topic to your post. I'd just seen some of that sentiment earlier in the thread, plus I'm tired and grumpy and vented on you.

      Somewhat related, I'm tired because I got up early this morning to volunteer at a free clinic...

      Actually, I pretty much completely agree with your post. I know both types of doctors. Very few are completely uninterested in making money, but the vast majority of them value good patient care over the extra money they could get from being profit-driven assholes.

      --
      "Cheeze it!" - Bender
    94. Re:Cure? by interkin3tic · · Score: 1

      For someone so stuffed full of himself, you don't read very well do you?

      Nah, I've never been impressed with the reading skills of people who think too much of themselves, I'd say he's about middle of the pack.

    95. Re:Cure? by Kleiba · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I disagree with your conclusion. Although it is correct that Patient dead => won't buy other products, it doesn't follow that Patient alive => will buy other products.

      Even though your actual statement was less strict ("more likely to buy"), I still doubt that it would make sense economically to reason that way. You don't invest large amounts with vague expectations for ROI which would - if at all - only occur with a substantial delay. Also, how do you know that the patient is going to buy those other products from you and not from your competitor?

    96. Re:Cure? by RichiH · · Score: 1

      There is no profit in cures, except wherein the condition would result in the death of the patient.

      As perverted as that sounds, there is more money in a long-lasting agony near to death than in full recovery.

      1) People in agony will be willing to shell out _lots_. My gf works in a pharmacy and they sell drugs at several thousand a pop. Some people need such a pop once per month or even more often.

      2) If they survive, there is no guarantee that they will buy more stuff from you. They might buy from someone else.

    97. Re:Cure? by RichiH · · Score: 1

      A cure boost stock prices, hurts you competitors, and gets C*Os a ton of cash in the form of bonuses. i.e. get stinking rich.

      The same is true for something that will just make people fend off the illness longer.

    98. Re:Cure? by sqldr · · Score: 4, Insightful

      There is no money in a cure....

      That depends if you're trying to make money, or save money and more importantly fulfill your mandate to save lives, and this all depends on whether you're a drugs company or a national health service

      This came up a couple of years ago in the UK when an American drugs company came up with a treatment (can't remember the name) for various types of cancers which had a 20% chance of prolonging the life or a patient for between 6 and 18 month for the paltry sum of £50000/year per patient, not to mention the rather unpleasant side-effects. They were denied the treatment on the NHS (except nobody was stopping them buying it privately except personal wealth, or digging into the inheritance funds).

      The documentary cut to footage of crying relatives angrily talking about how their children missed out on another year of being able to see their grandparent because the NHS which they had paid for through national insurance all of their lives had denied them this drug ("if they'd just had the XYZ then they could have seen them for longer!"), etc.

      It then cuts to an NHS funds manager talking about budget and how they have the highest level of pregnancy deaths in the country and the treatment for many of those incidents which could save the entire life of a child is much cheaper. The NHS budget is calculated according to its effect on quality of life, scored as "QUALS". These guys are the ones whom Sarah Palin refers to as the "death squads". Could have been worse.. under a private healthcare scheme, the insurance company death squads would probably have let the babies die for the sake of the 6 months of a bed-bound terminal cancer patient.

      It then cuts to the manufacturers of this drug, in their massive marble-sided Chicago skyscraper, having a massive champagne-fueled banquet, handing out awards to eachother for their "life-saving" work in creating this rather ineffectual drug.

      One might wonder what the first family would have thought if the reason for their children not seeing their grandparent was because it was the CHILDREN who were ill, who couldn't get treatment because the NHS had just spaffed £50000 on a drug which just made someone ill for an extra 6 months. And what about the 70 year old who is going to live for another 15 years and would love to spend those 15 years being able to walk properly after receiving an expensive hip-replacement operation? Nah.. cancer is like the poster boy of illnesses. The old "why aren't you curing cancer?" poke at the ignoble awards is getting tiresome.

      So from where I stand, I've not got cancer, or MS, or Parkinsons (dementia is VERY badly funded.. all the charity money goes to breast cancer these days), or anything else.. YET, but I'm hedging my bets by saying that I hope that my national insurance money is going towards what is most likely to save me the most grief, rather than paying for more champagne and marble skyscrapers. In that respect, a CHEAP cure for cancer sounds bloody brilliant, and I hope the NHS invest heavily in it. In the long run, that will free up more money to research all the other horrible diseases we might get.

      There is huge incentive for the NHS to invest in cheap drugs, because that's their job. Private healthcare doesn't really have this moral obligation.

      --
      I wrote my first program at the age of six, and I still can't work out how this website works.
    99. Re:Cure? by alex67500 · · Score: 1

      I just hope they keep the hot nurses away from that procedure aswell =)

    100. Re:Cure? by someone1234 · · Score: 1

      If they don't get cured, they will switch to something else (if there is something else).
      If they are cured by that something they will likely use that cure next time (also word goes around).

      --
      Patents Drive Free Software as Hurricanes Drive Construction Industry
    101. Re:Cure? by RichiH · · Score: 1

      In 2005, Warren and Marshall win the Nobel Prize in Medicine.

      And they fucking deserved it! My childhood and adolescence was a fun game of random pain so bad I could literally do nothing but roll on the floor, sometimes. All that was stopped by a handful of tablets in _two weeks_. Man, am I grateful...

    102. Re:Cure? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Also note that this is the "Australian Government" your talking about - as viewed by a lot of Americans as a horrible place to live because they have "Socialist" medicine - like a lot of the developed world. Thats right... the government will cover your hospital costs if you get sick and dont have private healthcare... it must be terrible to have the "government" involved in your healthcare... bloody commies...

    103. Re:Cure? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually apsirin is not far superior to all of the more expensive NSAIDS on the market. It is roughly 10 times more selective towards the COX1 enzyme over COX2. This means that undesirable side effects such as gastric irritation are much more prominent compared to other NSAIDS which are COX2(COX2 is the enzyme that is responsible for the inflamation response anyway). This selectivity is also why it is used as an anti-clotting drug.

    104. Re:Cure? by RichiH · · Score: 1

      If they get better but not well, they will stick to what works for as long as they live. Experiments will be few; considering the stakes.

    105. Re:Cure? by ImOnlySleeping · · Score: 1

      Which is why I can buy ibuprofen everywhere.

      --
      Everybody seems to think I'm lazy I don't mind, I think they're crazy
    106. Re:Cure? by RichiH · · Score: 1

      PS: For most of the time, I had no ulcers. When they found them, I had come across a pamphlet describing H. pylori, already.

    107. Re:Cure? by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      Since this is Slashdot, I'm not surprised to get a confused story,

      You've got to read the article you link to a little more closely. Click some of the links and sources you find in the story and not just the Wikipedia summary.

      I never suggested that Marshall and Warren's work, published in 1984, was ignored. I suggested it was suppressed by the drug companies for a decade, until their patents ran out in 1994.

      But this is Slashdot, and people don't like to read articles, so I'm not surprised you'd get confused.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    108. Re:Cure? by yamfry · · Score: 1

      Oh. I've been working on those in the wrong order.

    109. Re:Cure? by MrPeach · · Score: 1

      Well he was born
      born
      born
      born to be alive!

    110. Re:Cure? by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 1

      I hate to say it but I'm starting to agree with this. Why would any pharmaceutical company EVER want to actually cure something when they could hook people on treatments for life.

      Especially if they can't patent it, or it's inexpensive.

      The answer to the first part is, so that one of their competitors don't get there first and make all the money. However, if the treatment is inexpensive and the drug company can't patent it, there is no reason to spend the incredible sums of money to test if it is a cure.
      Of course, theoretically, that is why organizations such as the American Cancer Society exist. Unfortunately, it is not in the interest of the ACS to actually find a cure for cancer, what would their excuse for fund raising be then?
      Pharmacuetical companies have a reason to find a cure if they can patent it. If they do not pursue the research, one of their competitors might and then all of their treatments will cease to have value.
      Actually, this brings up another thought, if this drug is already approved to be administered to people, it is not necessary to put it through as intensive testing in order for it to be used. As a matter of fact, there are a lot of drugs which are used to treat conditions other than the ones they were approved to treat (not always effectively).

      --
      The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
    111. Re:Cure? by ect5150 · · Score: 1

      Do drug companies put profits ahead of patients? Undoubtedly. It's what happens when the ownership of a company is no longer the person who's name is on the sign, but equity owners who see their ownership in the company as a simple investment, and don't care at all about what the company does or how it does it, as long as the stock price rises. The desire for profit becomes a much stronger force than the desire to do the right thing, because corporations are not people, and will never care about the "right thing". This is the disconnect that gives the lie to any "free market" benefit to society.

      The failure and disconnect you speak of is strictly the lack of competition, not the "greed and doing the right thing" many people seem to shout. The greed incentive needs to be there for an incentive to offer more competition. More competition leads to lower prices and more produced. This is the idea of a "free market" ... one with actual competition. Funny you should mention wonder-drugs like aspirin. Take Ibuprofen for an example. What has happened to the price and quantity available as it once moved from some patented drug to a freely generic produced drug in a free market? Hint: It hasn't gotten more expensive and it hasn't become less available. Show me how society did not benefit.

      --
      I have never let my schooling interfere with my education.
    112. Re:Cure? by Synn · · Score: 1

      Of course companies would want the cure. If they have the cure:

      1> They'll make a killing selling the cure.
      2> They'll put their competitors selling just treatments out of business.

    113. Re:Cure? by cmaxx · · Score: 1

      If we presume that this position were true, how would you explain the fact that commercial pharma companies have invented, and continue to invent new antibiotics, antifungals and particularly new vaccines which are intended to actively *prevent* illness and death, including some common causes of cancer like HPV?

      Frankly there's a shitload of money in cures. And keeping patients alive by prevention, cure or treatment means you can sell them other stuff later - so they're all good.

      But more than that - it's the right thing to do and it's often personal.. mostly the individuals doing the research really want to help people. You don't become a medical/pharma scientist for the flashy lifestyle (hah) or the opportunities to be evil. You may doubt it but the regulators (science, medical, fianncial, etc.) are actually all pretty much down on evil. And let's face it there are lots of opportunities to be evil without getting an extensive, expensive, education, and working in a field that's subject to public opporbrium at every turn even while you daily work for the public's health and welfare. Quite a lot, probably most of the researchers go into the field because it's a rare chance to make a positive difference to large chunks of humanity.

      Remember the people who work in pharma are just that - people. They are also patients themselves or relatives/friends of patients, they're users of their own products, as well as being employees, shareholders, perhaps managers and members of broader society.

      They also, somehow, have to find ways to do all that good while running a financial machine called a company - so they have to pick and choose where they put their effort to both do good and self-sustain that operation.

      That's why government funding and foundations like the Bill and Melinda Gates foundation are so important - where some disease area couldn't become a sustainable financial prospect for a pharma company, those funders can help to get the science done by drawing on money generated elsewhere.

      --
      ...an Englishman in London.
    114. Re:Cure? by Martin+Blank · · Score: 1

      I stand partially corrected. I poked around a bit to verify, and some similar numbers are recommended by a few other places. Thank you for that.

      --
      You can never go home again... but I guess you can shop there.
    115. Re:Cure? by KlomDark · · Score: 1

      Aspirin is a COX inhibitor? Did someone give my cable modem some aspirin?

    116. Re:Cure? by srmalloy · · Score: 1

      That depends very much on your doctor. I was recently found to be very deficient in Vitamin D. The traditional course of therapy is 50,000IU per week for a month. He could have written out a prescription, but instead wrote out a lab request and attached a Post-It with the words "50K units Vit D/wk." I asked if there was anything special I should look for, and he said, "Just make sure it says 'Vitamin D' on the front of the label." For $8, I got two months' regimen. I need to go back in for testing to make sure that it's recovered, and will be taking 5000 units per week until I can find a better way to get direct sunlight on a regular basis, but that's really it.

      I had an analogous situation; my doctor wanted to put me on a cholesterol-control medication, and after discussing the various medications and their possible side effects gave me a prescription for Niaspan, which (being a brand-name medication) had a rude copay under my health coverage. Niaspan being essentially nothing more than extended-release niacin tablets, I did some poking around and discovered that I could get OTC sustained-release niacin tablets with the same dosage, and instead of paying a $50 copay for 30, I could pay $3 for a bottle of 100. With a couple of extra tests to verify that the OTC was working just as well as the prescription would, I dumped the Niaspan prescription.

    117. Re:Cure? by booch · · Score: 1

      Ah, so the drug companies operate on the same principals as a parasitic virus -- the best strategy is to be neither too aggressive nor to timid. Killing the host/patient is bad, as is completely leaving/curing the host/patient.

      --
      Software sucks. Open Source sucks less.
    118. Re:Cure? by SoTerrified · · Score: 1

      There is no money in a cure....

      That's a common misconception. While there isn't much direct money involved in a cure, the drug companies still come out way ahead. If people don't die (and aren't even sick really) from cancer, they are more likely to buy other products, such as Viagra, that the drug companies are pushing.

      Well, when I submitted this story, I included a quote from the main researcher...

      The most interesting part of the story is that the breakthrough was originally discovered in 2007, but tests have taken so long to advance because no one would profit. From the article "Michelakis notes that all of the studies they've undertaken thus far on DCA has come with the support of the University of Alberta and public donations. That's in part because DCA is a commonly available compound that is not patented or owned by any drug firm. Pharmaceutical companies have not been interested in funding further research on DCA since the treatment won't make them a profit."

      That would seem to indicate that the pharms really don't care if you're alive to purchase viagra or not.

    119. Re:Cure? by CatsupBoy · · Score: 1

      Thats what drug companies love the most, treating the symptoms only and not doing anything to resolve the actual problem.

      Good thing for cancer patients is that the symptom is they are dying from cancer.

    120. Re:Cure? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Cancer societies are not about FINDING a cure, they are about LOOKING for a cure. Once a cure for cancer is found, they are all out of business.

      Drug companies want a cure or at least a treatment. "we cannot cure cancer, but if you take this drug every day for the rest of your life, your cancer will not kill you."

      Go to one of those societies websites and look at how much they spend of the donations they receive on administration. The administration should be a fixed cost and not a percentage of total income. 15% of $2M is twice as much as 15% of $1M, but it does not take twice as many people to donate that extra million to worthy research.

      I have done consulting (IT) work at several non-profit societies and let me tell you they are not hurting for money or nice things.

    121. Re:Cure? by budgenator · · Score: 1

      My neighbor has MS and she went from a wheelchair to working in her garden after a year and a half on vitamin D, her Rheumatologist poo-pooed the very idea of it, now he takes it himself for his RA. Now that summer is coming I'll probably get 1000 IU's till winter comes.

      --
      Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
    122. Re:Cure? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      For those following your advice here - there are different forms of Niacin, and while all are good for the nutritional function or the vitamin, the cholesterol lowering aspect is found in Nicotinic acid, not Niacinamide or other types.

      Check out: http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/niacin/cl00036 and

      http://www.umm.edu/altmed/articles/vitamin-b3-000335.htm

    123. Re:Cure? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Did the drugs cure you? Or did they just help to mitigate the symptoms of chemotherapy?

    124. Re:Cure? by dcw3 · · Score: 1

      So in some ways, generic drugs still make a lot of profit because there is virtually no risk or overhead in the process.

      While the generic doesn't require the initial testing that the original did, they still do some. Overhead is usually from the cost of doing business, paying for the building, utilities, etc., so I think you're off a bit there. Certainly, they don't have the marketing costs incurred by the developing company. Obviously, the fact that generics cost much less affects their margins.

      --
      Just another day in Paradise
    125. Re:Cure? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's a misconception only that he's saying there is NO money in a cure. The fact is that there is LESS money in a cure than can be made by treating it as they have been. You only sell a cure once, but someone dying from cancer makes an indefinite amount greater money as they continually buy treatment. What if they made a car that you never needed to fix? How long do you think a manufacturer would last? You'd sell a ton up front then your market would fall off drastically.

      Simple fact: as long as there's money to be made, there won't be a cure.

    126. Re:Cure? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He said cure, jackass- not crippled. There is NO MONEY IN A CURE. Period.

      Have you seen the stock price for those Polio vaccine's lately?

      Money won't solve our problems.

    127. Re:Cure? by AdamThor · · Score: 1

      I'm sure you'll find that lion one day!

      --
      -- "Oh. This guy again."
    128. Re:Cure? by fractoid · · Score: 1

      If all he's lacking is the lion then he's Doing It Right. Now, if you're sitting next to a lion, surfing /., and wishing you had a 14 year old to make babies with, possibly you need to de-neanderthalize your value system. ;)

      --
      Rampant carbon sequestration destroyed the Dinosaurs' tropical paradise. I'm here to help repair the damage.
    129. Re:Cure? by Wyatt+Earp · · Score: 1

      The drugs stopped the cancer enough that my body could keep living ad other drugs nuked the cancer's production sites.

      Four years of poisoning, recovery and poisoning kinda sucked.

    130. Re:Cure? by canajin56 · · Score: 1

      In those 16 months, the drug company sells them $864,000 of treatments. Yeah, nobody is making a killing off of it. And I don't buy the argument that "if you cure them, they'll spend a million dollars on Viagra, instead, so it's a net gain for the drug company". Yeah right. Especially if the drug company cutting funding to the cure isn't the same fucking one that even MAKES Viagra...

      --
      ASCII stupid question, get a stupid ANSI
    131. Re:Cure? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have mod points, but there is no +1 Good Luck option.... so I'll have to post as AC.

    132. Re:Cure? by dollarwizard · · Score: 1

      What was the last time a doctor prescribed or recommended aspirin, which is far superior to any of the more expensive "anti-inflammatory" medicines which are used for arthritis, pain, etc?

      Actually, you mean ibuprofen. Good point other than that.

    133. Re:Cure? by sac13 · · Score: 1

      Skepticism is always warranted with an industry as large, corrupt, but ultimately essential as the pharmaceutical industry.

      Reminds me of government... the same government that just created health care laws that severely prevent cheaper drugs from being imported to compete with the big pharmaceutical industry...

      Size is our enemy... whether it's companies or governments, the bigger they are, the more they can and will screw us...

    134. Re:Cure? by pnutjam · · Score: 1

      ding...ding...ding

      Very true, however The March of Dimes was originally founded to fight Polio and succeeded in mostly eradicating it, but they are still around, albeit with a modified mission.

    135. Re:Cure? by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      You're right of course, but you're taking a long-term view. American corporations don't take long-term views of anything, only short-term and maybe medium-term. So in their view, it's pointless to make cures, because they won't get enough profit from them (they'd get some profit, but not as much as they'd like). So they'd rather spend their effort making treatments that require you to be on drugs for the rest of your life, not cures.

      Making all kinds of stupid loans on way overpriced houses to people who couldn't afford them wasn't in the long-term interest of all the finance companies, since it caused a collapse and tons of foreclosures, but that sure didn't stop them from doing it, because in the short term it seemed like a good way to make a lot of money.

    136. Re:Cure? by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      While you might have to worry about cancer taking you out, at least you don't have to worry about getting killed in a gunfight. You can walk right up to attackers who are shooting at you, and the bullets will miss, though they'll put holes in both sides of your coat.

      You could make a lot of money if you took up a new career as a mercenary.

    137. Re:Cure? by SlowGenius · · Score: 2, Informative

      Martin, If you dig just a little bit deeper, you'll find that this bunny burrow goes a very long way down. Hypovitaminosis D has been implicated in just about every disease under the sun (so to speak). Not surprising when you learn that our ancestors were making 5,000+ units per day in their skin, back before we all turned into residents of air-conditioned caves who smear on chemicals to "protect" us from sunshine on those rare occasions that we do venture outdoors.

      The key to understanding why vitamin D is so important is to know that it's actually not a true vitamin at all, but rather a pre-hormone; the active hormone (calcitriol) is involved in a myriad of regulatory pathways all over our body, most significantly in the immune system as well as in calcium regulation. Calcitriol is also essential to normal growth, including neural development; deficiency during pregnancy is associated with autism in children.

      Deficiency during childhood is associated with many autoimmune diseases including type 1 diabetes and multiple sclerosis.

      Deficiency during adulthood is associated with coronary artery disease, hypertension, diabetes, dyslipidemia, vulnerability to viral infections (including influenza and the common cold, which are far more prevalent in the winter months), vulnerability to certain bacterial infections (most prominently including tuberculosis), and at least 17 different types of cancer, most notably including breast, colon, prostate, and (ironically enough) melanoma.

      If you start to look into diseases that are significantly more prevalent in dark-skinned people (who are more protected against the rays of the sun but unfortunately also not so good at making enough Vitamin D outside of tropical environments), you can begin (but only begin) to understand the extent of the problem.

      The current RDA for Vitamin D has somewhere between zero and nothing to do with actual human requirements for the substance; fortunately that's actively changing as the medical community gets more aware of the situation, but in the meantime you can consider current amount of Vitamin D supplementation in food to fall into the "near homeopathic dose" category.

      Current official medical recommendations are to take enough Vitamin D to achieve measured serum levels of at least 30 ng/ml of 25(OH)-D (calcidiol), but a growing number of doctors who have looked into this a bit further (including myself) think that the goal should actually be somewhere in the 60-80 ng/ml range, particularly for cancer prevention.

      --
      Listen to what I say, not what I mean...
    138. Re:Cure? by Wyatt+Earp · · Score: 1

      I'm in Alaska now, the bears are the danger up here.

      Which is one of the places my namesake ended up for a spell.

    139. Re:Cure? by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      You need to come back down here to Arizona and deal with all the gangs in a Vendetta Ride.

    140. Re:Cure? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No money in a cure + outrageously expensive compliance costs means + standards in fiduciary responsibility that won't even allow a board to allow such an investment because it is not in the best interests of the investors means the law requires that the re-research of DCA for treating cancer must be done by a non-profit created specifically for that purpose.

      Call it a perverted side effect of the law, but don't blame the drug companies. They don't make the rules that force their hand this time.

    141. Re:Cure? by Martin+Blank · · Score: 1

      I suppose it has something to do with when the standard was set. Perhaps the 200IU/day number was set when people spent a lot more time outside in general. As I mentioned, I do network security, and while I do get out at lunch, even living in California, there's a limit to what I can do while there's a decent amount of sunlight, especially in winter.

      I'm also generally averse to taking pills. The last time I tried taking general supplements, I managed to jack my phosphorus levels over the ideal amounts and towards danger territory. I'm happy enough taking just the Vitamin D supplements, and if that's where it stays, so be it. The rest of my numbers were all good, except for my low hematocrit, which the doctor said was likely due to having donated blood a month before. That also will be rechecked soon (and I'm happy to do so -- it bothers me canceling blood donation appointments.)

      --
      You can never go home again... but I guess you can shop there.
    142. Re:Cure? by nbauman · · Score: 1

      You've got to read the article you link to a little more closely. Click some of the links and sources you find in the story and not just the Wikipedia summary.

      Any sources in particular?

      The argument, "If you read the literature you'd see that I was right" isn't too useful.

      I never suggested that Marshall and Warren's work, published in 1984, was ignored. I suggested it was suppressed by the drug companies for a decade, until their patents ran out in 1994.

      How do the drug companies suppress research by academic researchers in Australia? If they have promising results, they're free to submit it to NEJM, JAMA, Lancet, BMJ, Science, Nature, etc. Are you saying that the drug companies have their tentacles around the reviewers of all those journals?

      They can also apply for government grants (even the U.S. NIH).

      And their treatment of H. pylori requires antibiotics. So they could even find an antibiotic manufacturer to fund their trials.

      Ten years isn't out of the ordinary for an innovation in medicine to be adopted. If their results were adopted too slowly, I would attribute it to the usual exasperatingly slow pace of clinical research.

      Although if you know of any evidence that it was actually suppressed, I'm always ready for a good (verified) story.

    143. Re:Cure? by nbauman · · Score: 1

      I realized after I hit "Submit" that my long-winded screed about prescriptions wasn't really all that on-topic to your post.

      It seemed that way. I wish I could share your optimism that doctors are no longer on the take, but the ethical guidelines have too many loopholes. (What do you expect from drug company lawyers?) The drug companies still pay "opinion leaders"/heavy prescribers consulting fees of $3,000 a day, plus travel expenses to the meetings, to give educational lectures.

      Since you're apparently in the medical profession, I don't have to spell it out for you. There was one psychiatrist who wrote a piece in the New York Times Magazine describing his experience on a drug company lecture panel. (I'm too lazy to Google it, but you know who I mean.) It's amazing how they can use a $3,000 lecture fee to manipulate doctors. They sell out so cheap.

      Some doctors are on the take and some aren't, but I've been disappointed in the past when doctors I really trusted wound up selling out. I don't want to name names, because a lot of them Google their names and they'll find out I was talking about them. But most of the time, I read a review article in NEJM and the author discloses consulting fees with all the big hitters. Maybe I'm too romantic about Alexander Fleming.

    144. Re:Cure? by Hotsphink · · Score: 1

      No money for the drug companies, true.

      But what about the other much-maligned member of the "health care" industry: insurance companies? They would save a ton of money if somebody came up with a proper cure. Not only would they not have to pay for the expensive last-ditch drugs for the currently incurable disease, but they wouldn't need to treat all of the complications that arise from late-stage terminal illness.

      People would probably freak out if the "evil insurance industry" started to dabble in researching their own drugs and treatments, but they are the ones with the incentive. This whole idea was given to me by a friend of mine, who once suggested to a high-level insurance representative that they should be awarding bounties for cures. It makes a lot of sense, even though bounties are obviously limited in what activities they can support.

      (Note: the quotation marks around "evil insurance industry" should not be taken to mean that I actually disagree with the label; personally, I find the insurance industry as it is currently set up to indeed be a systemic evil. I'd much rather they sold insurance for catastrophic health expenses, rather than being an integral part of the payment and approval process.)

    145. Re:Cure? by Hotsphink · · Score: 1

      Err... so you are taking a patient providing a guaranteed revenue stream from staving off a terminal illness, and replacing him/her with a patient with a possibility of providing a smaller revenue stream, maybe for a longer period if you're lucky?

      And this is a patient who almost died and suffered through uncountable procedures and doctors and uncertainty, and you think they'll jump at the chance to play with even more pills and doctors? Everyone I know who has had a serious encounter with the medical establishment would do almost anything to avoid having anything to do with doctors again. And that includes dying. (Yes, it's anecdotal, but I have deceased family members in precisely this category.) Younger people especially may find the idea ludicrous, but the idea of living at all cost becomes far less appealing once you become personally acquainted with that cost.

    146. Re:Cure? by Morkalin · · Score: 1

      Jeez, just telling the dude what you are going to do should wilt most guys... "Well Mr. Smith, we are going to restore blood flow by installing a couple of drains via these big ass needles... ah, I see it's no longer needed..."

      If news like that gives you a boner then I think you have more serious issues.

    147. Re:Cure? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The business model for medicine in the US is simple: let's say your research team lays two discoveries on the board room table: (1) a cure for [pick your disease or condition], and (2) a treatment for the symptoms that saves the patient's life and goes on forever, or until the patient recovers from natural processes.

      Understand: the only revenue from the cure is one-time per patient. Revenue from treating symptoms can be a lifetime.

      Making a profit is OFTEN diametrically opposed to making a healthier person. As featured in many sci-fi stories, the ideal drug for a company to make is one that is "life-saving" but never cures.

      There are many examples of this: honey heals wounds better than most antibiotics (and where no antibiotics seem to works as in MRSA) http://www.worldwidewounds.com/2001/november/Molan/honey-as-topical-agent.html , hyperbaric oxygen (HBOT) heals prevents 75% of amputations in severe gangrenous diabetic leg wounds, even after everything else has been tried. Both are examples of non-proprietary medicine superior to the pay-or-die policy among drug companies.

  2. Where else by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It does to administration and hosting all those ridiculous charity events.

    1. Re:Where else by eln · · Score: 5, Insightful

      A lot of the big charities these days seem to be focused on "awareness" rather than "finding a cure". This basically sounds like giving money to these people so they can run more ads to get more money. At what point do we decide people are "aware" enough and start actually trying to cure these diseases? I don't care how many people are aware of breast cancer, I care how fast it takes to come up with a cure for breast cancer.

      The big offenders I've seen are breast cancer awareness and autism awareness. Why do we need to give money to make people more aware of these conditions? Everyone is already as aware as they need to be! Stop spending money on awareness and start spending it on research!

      Of course, once a charity reaches a certain size, its primary goal becomes self-preservation, and finding a cure for these things would threaten that goal.

    2. Re:Where else by BobMcD · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The big offenders I've seen are breast cancer awareness and autism awareness. Why do we need to give money to make people more aware of these conditions? Everyone is already as aware as they need to be! Stop spending money on awareness and start spending it on research!

      I can't speak for breast cancer, but my youngest son is autistic. Lack of awareness leads people to assume he's retarded, or a brat, or both. My nephew has Downs and I frequently envy his parents on the simple fact that they don't really need to spend a lot of time explaining how their child is different. My own son gets a mixed result of surprise and disgust when he doesn't live up to the standards his appearance would dictate.

      Thankfully he's not really all that aware of how people treat him...

      But awareness isn't all bad...

    3. Re:Where else by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      My baby brother has autism, he's 18 and operates at a 12 year old level. He's not stupid, but he is definitely developmentally retarded.

      Seriously, if you don't think that autism is a retardation then there is something really wrong with your world view.

      Heck, just look up the words.

      Autism == a disorder of neural development characterized by impaired social interaction and communication, and by restricted and repetitive behavior.

      Impair == make worse or less effective
      Restrict == restrain within bounds; to limit; to confine;

      Restrain == to close within bounds, limit or hold back from movement;

      Retard == cause to move more slowly or operate at a slower rate

      Quit trying to convince yourself that it's not as bad as it is. Accept that it's bad, and then fix it.
      Denial on your part just limits the possible solutions that you will aloow him to enjoy.

    4. Re:Where else by FuckingNickName · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Lack of awareness leads people to assume he's retarded, or a brat, or both.

      Autism often goes hand in hand with mental retardation, and it can cause the sufferer to act like a brat. Either way, autism is a mental fault and someone who is autistic or who has an autistic family member cannot expect the autistic person to be treated as if he is any more *special* than someone who just happens to be born, say, with a low-to-average IQ. In other words, "retardation" is also something you are usually born with, and it's no worse to be "assumed" retarded than it is to be "assumed" autistic.

      My nephew has Downs and I frequently envy his parents on the simple fact that they don't really need to spend a lot of time explaining how their child is different.

      Why does it bother you so much what strangers think? Perhaps you should take a lesson from your son.

    5. Re:Where else by perrin · · Score: 1

      I guess it depends on the charity. I know that some of the largest medical charities here in Norway channel a lot of money to research projects, I have seen some of it, really good stuff. They also spend money on educating patients about their disease and their rights, which too seems a good idea. Not sure if that is what parent posters mean by money going to 'awareness'.

    6. Re:Where else by toppavak · · Score: 1

      More often than not it ends up in the hands of for-profit drug companies one way or another. Even the money that goes to fund research in academic labs eventually is used to patent the drug compounds by the university and an exclusive license is granted to a pharma company with few or no strings attached about ensuring that the drug is brought to market in a way that actually ensures access to patients. It's kind of a sick process when you think about it since the incentives for all parties involved (scientists, universities, pharma) are stacked to encourage them to charge or be ok with charging ridiculous margins on the drug compound to turn record-breaking profits rather than shooting for a responsible profit margin while ensuring maximal possible patient access. This is done with both public and private financing and is an unintended consequence of the Bayh-Dole act which was meant to ease the commercialization process for technologies coming out of publicly funded research. Groups like Universities Allied for Essential Medicines have been trying to fight this in a grassroots manner by advocating that universities adopt responsible licensing policies where they can include pricing and accessibility targets for which non-compliance can result in revocation of license exclusivity (just one example of what UAEM fights for).

      Disclaimer: I am not directly affiliated with UAEM, but have several friends who are.

    7. Re:Where else by BitwiseX · · Score: 2, Interesting

      My own son gets a mixed result of surprise and disgust when he doesn't live up to the standards his appearance would dictate.

      Amen. My best friend from middle school through high school (and beyond if he hadn't have passed on) had Muscular Dystrophy. He was physically retarded, not mentally. Our own wonderful school system even tried to put him in a "special ed" class. Idiots. Every time I hear someone refer to a mentally challenged individual as one of "Jerry's kids" I want to punch them in the face.

      So when I donate to MDA, if some of that money goes to educating someone about MD, I'm all for it. It might even keep me out of jail one day.

      Awareness is a fair use of of funds. Everyone is NOT as aware as they need to be. If it ever affects you personally.. you'll get it..

      P.S. Buy an MDA Shamrock.

    8. Re:Where else by westlake · · Score: 1

      Everyone is already as aware as they need to be! Stop spending money on awareness and start spending it on research!

      Most breast cancer cases are curable, but mammograms are still a must

      If breast cancer is detected early, the survival rate is above 90%.

      Because of screening, about 25% of breast cancer is caught early at the stage of non-invasive cancer, which is very treatable. Studies show that mammography reduces the risk of death from breast cancer by 15%.

      Doctors recommend annual mammograms for women over the age of 40, or starting earlier if you are at elevated risk. "It's still alarming how many women don't get mammograms or skip for years at a time," says Dr. Elisa Port. [The chief of breast surgery at Mount Sinai] " "Mammograms are essential."

    9. Re:Where else by geekoid · · Score: 1

      Yeah, is anyone not aware of breast cancer or aids?

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    10. Re:Where else by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But at some point you have to accept that firstly a lot of these people are just close-minded ignorant idiots who will never
      learn but more importantly awareness is done wrongly. Trying to make people aware of things is great but on most of the
      population all they see is some perfect flawless actor/celebrity dressed up and some charity event for something.

      I know its much worse for children but I'm paralysed and in a wheelchair because of a car accident but a lot of people assume
      I have a brain injury. I honestly think the thing thats changed that the most is people like Christopher Reeve and Stephen
      Hawking.

      To change people's awareness you need to see people with these conditions regularly on tv, in magazines and in everyday life.

    11. Re:Where else by twidarkling · · Score: 1

      That's not from lack of awareness. That's from both fear and lack of access to medical treatment. Are you aware of the cost of things like mammograms? How do you expect the average American without health insurance to swing inspections like that? And if they *can,* then they have to overcome the "if I don't know about it, it's not real" thinking. Increasing awareness won't help either of those things. Increasing access to medical testing facilities and improving detection methods to in-clinic abilities would help that.

      --
      Canada: The US's more awesome sibling.
    12. Re:Where else by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Have you seen this famous video of where Carly Fleischmann, an autistic girl, learns to communicate? It clearly shows that austism is NOT mental retardation and gives some wonderful insights.

      Autistic Girl Expresses Profound Intelligence
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jq--75v4lI8

      -- posting as AC since moderating... Unknown Soldier

    13. Re:Where else by shadowbearer · · Score: 1

        I believe what the GP was trying to say is that the ratio of charity money spent on research vs. awareness is badly skewed, and I agree with him. I've worked with enough charities to see just how many self-serving asshats there are in those organizations, especially in the administration levels.

        I'm currently doing thirty hours or so a week as a core member of a local Salvation Army, and we are continually fighting against incompetence and corruption in the administration. We are in danger of having our store/family services building closed by the state and OSHA due to non-compliance with building codes and health regulations - not trivial stuff, either, and most of this is due to a regional church official who ignored the problems with the buildings for years - he is certainly incompetent, whether he is corrupt nobody can say at this point, although there is evidence that points to it. So I have some experience in this area. Like just about any other large organization, these problems exist.

          Anyone out there looking for work, the Salvation Army really isn't that bad to work for, as a whole. The pay often sucks, and it can be an emotionally difficult job, but if you are desperate for work as I was after I got laid off just over a year ago, there are much worse jobs, and they are always short of competent help in every department. I glommed on to the job because I needed to have some reliable income; now ten months later I'm finding pride in it because there are so many people who thank you for helping - and believe it or not, if one works hard and is willing to put up with a lot of BS (like every other job) the raises do come.

        Oh, and for the one or two out there who follow my postings here, yes, I am an outspoken atheist. They have no problem with that, as long as I don't make it a problem by being militant about it.

        SB

       

      --
      It's old. The more humans I meet, the more I like my cats. At least they are honest.
    14. Re:Where else by FuckingNickName · · Score: 2, Informative

      Let me try this again, since you obviously misread something in my post as "autism is mental retardation":

      1. Autism is often linked with mental retardation. Moreover, depending on your area, autism may be classed as a form of retardation (a very general term!), or classed as whatever the current politically correct term for "retardation" is;

      2. Autism describes a problem with mental ability just as retardation describes a problem with mental ability. Prejudice against the "retarded" is as bad as prejudiced against the autistic.

    15. Re:Where else by Fareq · · Score: 1

      You are totally on to something.

      As far as awareness goes for cancer, I think the most important thing would be awareness of not-scary treatments for early-detected cancer.

      Why?

      I know only 1 person who died from cancer.

      I know many people who have undergone insane tormenting treatments for their not-early-detected cancer. Chemo, surgeries, and all sorts of terrible stuff involving massive amounts of disfigurement and pain, and still only moderate survival rates.

      If I think that "finding cancer" means huge suffering and then dying anyway in 2-5 years, and not detecting the cancer means dying in about the same 2-5 years but without all of the torturous treatments in between... argues pretty well for not looking, doesn't it.

      We need to get the word out about how treatable certain cancers are when caught early and how much less debilitating these treatments are when you catch it "in time"

    16. Re:Where else by tnok85 · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately most people's level of 'awareness' is Dustin Hoffman in Rainman. And the current awareness campaigns seem to consist of "ARE YOU AWARE THAT AUTISM EXISTS?" without really giving a succinct explanation of what it is.

    17. Re:Where else by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      back in the 90s the pink ribbons that said "find a cure" were for AIDS. Now people sell them and supposedly the money is going for breast cancer awareness. Maybe it's still going towards AIDs.

    18. Re:Where else by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Parent is correct: I've got a "retarded" (learning/developmental disorder) child and there's nothing more frustrating than meeting a parent whose kid has a different disability coming out with the equivalent of "at least my kid's not a retard".

    19. Re:Where else by smaddox · · Score: 1

      There's a difference between being aware of autism and being able to diagnose autism. You shouldn't expect people to realise that your son is autistic unless someone tells them.

    20. Re:Where else by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      First there was Big Steel, Big Oil & Big Tobacco, now there's Big Charity!
      I have to admit, in my (anecdotal, unscientific) experience, I've found the charity industry to reek of one giant con.
      It just all seems a little too slick and well managed for me not to believe that it is an industry designed specifically to fleece good-hearted people of their hard earned cash.

    21. Re:Where else by Arccot · · Score: 1

      My nephew has Downs and I frequently envy his parents on the simple fact that they don't really need to spend a lot of time explaining how their child is different.

      Why does it bother you so much what strangers think? Perhaps you should take a lesson from your son.

      Spoken by someone who has never encountered it. You really have no idea how many idiots think their opinion on how to parent a special needs child is worth forcing on a parent at the worst possible moment. You haven't ever seen a meltdown until you get some asshole telling your kid "you deserve a spanking, boy" as he's trying to regain control of himself.

    22. Re:Where else by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think it's more about the fact that if someone (a teacher, colleague, etc) doesn't know that Bob's son is autistic then they wouldn't know how to deal with him. The autistic people I know (my step brother and my music teacher) aren't in any way retarded - in many ways they're a lot smarter than I am. It's just a matter of knowing that they don't respond to social cues/norms/etc the way that neurotypical (I don't know a better way to say 'normal') people do, and thus making sure that you are communicating using words instead of body language, using facts instead of hyperbole, etc.

    23. Re:Where else by FuckingNickName · · Score: 1

      You haven't ever seen a meltdown until you get some asshole telling your kid "you deserve a spanking, boy" as he's trying to regain control of himself.

      This sort of vocalisastion is inappropriate regardless of the ability of the person it's directed at. Remember what the person is doing - he's annoyed by some stranger kid's behaviour (which is acceptable, if intolerant), and he's turning his frustration into abuse against that kid (which is not acceptable). This guy also has a problem with social interaction. Unfortunately, millions of people have this problem.

      "But my son doesn't know better, and can't know better, but everyone else should," you may say. Really? Is everyone as sophisticated and rational? Moreover, does everyone have the mental capacity to reason against, say, the approach they experienced as a child? Pushed on them by their community? I went to two "make you a man" private schools where emotion was pretty much considered a weakness, and I recall at the age of 9 some kid who clearly had difficulties with understanding and concentration being hit on more than one occasion by one teacher (back when this was "OK"). This sort of thing either imprints in you a horror at such treatment, or imprints in you the belief that such treatment is OK.

      IOW, while your concern is obviously toward your child's feelings/response, the adult's behaviour toward your child may have a complex background and not be as simple to solve as "don't be an asshole". A mentally mature adult is required in this world to cope with irrational behaviour, and, unfortunately, some disorders makes this hard to do (to take another example, a socially anxious adult might retreat for weeks over a minor off-the-cuff remark). It still won't be possible to "educate" everyone to create a cushion around the sufferer: you have to help the sufferer understand, to the extent that they can, and learn coping methods.

    24. Re:Where else by RichiH · · Score: 1

      I _see_ Down's. No awareness or anything needed. Even in a society with no awareness, no knowledge about defects at all, everyone would immediately be able to follow to train of thought "looks weird, acts weird, might be related". (Unfortunately, that reflex is also a massive cause of prejudice).

      The problem with your child is that people can not readily see his illness as such. It sucks, yeah. But unless you make him wear a shirt with "I am autistic" on it, the problem will not go away.

      And giving everyone who acts a-social/anti-social (no offense intended! seriously!) the benefit of the doubt would only create a society where bullies would flourish.

      Unless people _know_ (or suspect) about something, they will not be able to make allowances for it.

      I broke my foot very thouroughly last year. Half a year later, I was hiking in a group. I tended to be among the slower ones even though I am physically fit and look fit, too. After a few days, someone commented on the fact that I was holding people up and just lazy. I told them I was happy I could walk as well as I could and that I considered hiking rehab.
      They were sorry etc pp; tried to excuse themselves.
      But: I did not tell anyone about my handicap so no one adapted to it. So there was nothing they had any reason to be sorry about.

      Of course, I am privileged inasmuch my handicap is (mostly) gone by now and I keep on getting better. Others do not have this privilege. Yet, the basic principle is the same:

      Awareness does not help unless people know they need to apply what they are aware of to person X.

    25. Re:Where else by Taxman415a · · Score: 1

      The big offenders I've seen are breast cancer awareness and autism awareness. Why do we need to give money to make people more aware of these conditions? Everyone is already as aware as they need to be! Stop spending money on awareness and start spending it on research!

      When discussing the context of finding cures then of course awareness sounds like wasted spending. But much of the focus of awareness efforts is on prevention. Growing evidence of autism, since you bring that up, is that the earlier it is identified by families and pediatricians and early treatment is sought, the better outcomes those children can have in terms of social integration and other areas in which people with autism tend to have difficulty. Most people still probably don't know that and there is still a stigma with autism so identification and treatment is delayed. Since there may be no cure for autism on the near horizon, awareness of the need for early identification and treatment amounts to prevention. An ounce of prevention can be worth a pound of cure.

      Of course a true cure for cancer and autism would be a fully preventative one, but most people would consider those pretty cutting edge and risky research areas. In the meantime the best answer is probably a mix of awareness efforts focused on prevention and efforts towards cures.

      Of course, once a charity reaches a certain size, its primary goal becomes self-preservation, and finding a cure for these things would threaten that goal.

      Well yes, but hopefully these organizations would be smart enough to repurpose themselves into finding a cure for something else. The March of Dimes was pretty successful doing that.

    26. Re:Where else by aminorex · · Score: 1

      That's how evolution works. Organizations which survive are organizations which are good at surviving, in the current environment. Eventually all of the biggest and longest-lived organizations are primarily concerned with their own growth and survival. That is the end-game for those organizations, and they will probably die soon, but they are large enough to create a lot of collateral damage in the meanwhile. Governments are much the same.

      --
      -I like my women like I like my tea: green-
    27. Re:Where else by BobMcD · · Score: 1

      You've never met him. How would you know?

    28. Re:Where else by BobMcD · · Score: 1

      Actually I believe I can expect that. I'd really like people to understand that there's an intelligent young man hiding behind that socially-inept shell. If you approach him from the right 'angle' emotionally, he'll likely do exactly what you're asking. He understands perfectly what you're saying, at normal speeds, even though he isn't making eye contact. Etc, etc, etc.

      It is a bit complex, but all the clues are there and anyone who'd be expected to interact with the public could reasonably be expected to spot the signs.

      With the prevalence we're seeing these days, it is probably a good idea to get ahead of this rather than behind.

    29. Re:Where else by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Cut the parent a break, she's just pointing out it's a pain in the ass to constantly have to repeat yourself.

      Imagine you have to tell people for the next four years some variation on "Yeah, the cast will come off in six months, and then after the second round of surgery I will be in therapy for four years, and then I will be able to walk normally". You'd get tired of it and want to hang a sign around your neck, OK?

      Now imagine doing it for life...

      I have some sympathy because my daughter's not the same race as me, and while I do not consider this a "problem" it's really pretty boring to have to explain over and over and over again "Yes, she's mine. No, my wife's not black. We're not genetically related. Well, you can say that if you want, it's a free country, but we all consider her my 'real' child - does she look 'unreal' to you? No, we're not offended, but some adopted people feel quite strongly about it, so you might want to watch for that when you talk to adopted children."

      It gets tedious, y'know? Because it's unavoidable. I actually prefer it when people are blunt "hey, why is your daughter black?" because it takes less time to resolve than when politically correct people dance around the subject forever.

      Everybody recognizes the facial features of a Downs child, so there's no need to explain.

    30. Re:Where else by nedlohs · · Score: 1

      You state people assume he is a brat. Hence he likely acts like a brat, otherwise it seem unlikely people would assume that. Of course everyone might be wrong hence the "likely".

      While autism does not necessarily mean the person has an IQ in the mentally retarded range, it does mean they are "relatively slow in mental or emotional or physical development" and hence retarded. Note retarded != mentally retarded and retarded != stupid.

  3. Where all charitable funds go by maliqua · · Score: 1

    Some rich asshole who runs the fucking things new beach house

    1. Re:Where all charitable funds go by SomeJoel · · Score: 4, Funny

      Some rich asshole who runs the fucking things new beach house

      Why do rich people that embezzle from charities always have to be called "assholes"? I mean, seriously, it's equally likely that he's an asshat, asswad, or assclown. Stop jumping to conclusions, assface.

      --
      <Complete your profile by adding a signature!>
    2. Re:Where all charitable funds go by maliqua · · Score: 1

      You are so right it was prejudice of me to assume he was an asshole specifically definitely ass-something tho

    3. Re:Where all charitable funds go by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      that's why you shouldn't make ass-sumptions

    4. Re:Where all charitable funds go by apoc.famine · · Score: 1

      I've gotten angry looks from people when I've mentioned "supporting the magnetic ribbon industry" in regards to their ribbon of choice. "But it says, 'I support our troops',..."

      --
      Velociraptor = Distiraptor / Timeraptor
    5. Re:Where all charitable funds go by shadowbearer · · Score: 1

        Heh. I'll take a stab at that:

        Asshole = corrupt, arrogant, and greedy
        Asshat = incompetent, arrogant, and greedy
        Asswad = damned difficult to work with no matter how good does job, but at least consistent
        Assclown = fucks off at work too much

          Assface = looks like a donkey's hind end

        Note that a person can be both an asshole and an asshat, and occasionally an asswad, but it's unusual to find all of the first four attributes in any one person.

        The last one, of course, is mostly an unfortunate combination of genetic tendencies, and can occur in combination with any of the above.

      SB

       

      --
      It's old. The more humans I meet, the more I like my cats. At least they are honest.
    6. Re:Where all charitable funds go by aminorex · · Score: 1

      Most rich embezzlers are probably quite popular.

      --
      -I like my women like I like my tea: green-
  4. but... but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    what about the magical free market fairies!!!

    1. Re:but... but... by fusiongyro · · Score: 1

      The free market doesn't have to be perfect, just a lot better than the alternatives. Which it is.

    2. Re:but... but... by yuriyg · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I'll take free market fairies over government bureaucrats anytime.

    3. Re:but... but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Uh.. what? The pharmaceuticals don't do something, it happens anyway through the action of other parties, and this is not a free market response?

    4. Re:but... but... by ebuck · · Score: 1

      Remember that at least one of the alternatives is "the perfect market". Free market can't be better than that!

    5. Re:but... but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The free market is better than the alternatives in some cases, but not in all cases. For example, the free market does not work very well when it comes to the slavery market (for the slaves at least). This is an extreme example, but examples of free market failures abound in every-day industries.

    6. Re:but... but... by poopdeville · · Score: 1

      There's no such thing as "the free market". There are markets, and each of them is either free or not free.

      --
      After all, I am strangely colored.
    7. Re:but... but... by krem81 · · Score: 1

      You're absolutely correct! Planned economies are far more efficient at enslaving their people and slave trade.

    8. Re:but... but... by twidarkling · · Score: 1

      Not when it's done through government intervention. That's the very antithesis of the Free Market. The Invisible Hand is supposed to take care of all of society's needs, relegating government to a law enforcement role at best. But if there's no profit in something, the free market will seldom-if-ever take an interest in something. And thus hybrid markets where the government steps in to fill holes is proven to be a much more logical and reasonable option.

      --
      Canada: The US's more awesome sibling.
    9. Re:but... but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You seem to be ignorant to the fact that large corporations and large governments are both bureaucracy laden to the point of being ineffectual.

    10. Re:but... but... by sveinungkv · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately the government kept the hand of the Free market away. Read Curing Cancer: A Patent Impossibility (written in 2007) for the details. Here is an excerpt:

      The bad news is that it is a simple, inexpensive chemical long used in medicine, and is not patentable. Thus there is no mechanism for getting the chemical (dichloroacetate, DCA) past the billion-dollar barrier of FDA approval.

      --
      Spelling/grammar nazis welcome (English is not my first language and I am trying to improve my spelling/grammar)
    11. Re:but... but... by beleriand · · Score: 1

      Medicine is heavily regulated, no free market there

      Of course, if you remove those regulations you get tons of quacks ripping people of. So they are propably there for a good reason. But when it takes millions and millions just to get the paperwork done to start some trials, it seems the bureaucracy is overblown currently

    12. Re:but... but... by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 1

      If there is a free market for the products the slaves are used to produce, slavery will go away. In the long run slavery is not an economically efficient method of production. If you look at pre-Civil War U.S., you can see this. The moderate anti-slavery people wanted to prevent slavery from being extended into new territories because they believed that if it was not allowed to expand, it would die out. Those who were avid supporters of the institution of slavery aggressivley tried to promote its expansion into new territories because they believed that if it did not expand into new territories it would die out. There is significant evidence to suggest that they were right.

      --
      The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
    13. Re:but... but... by tmosley · · Score: 1

      The government killed them in 1913. And we're running out of fairy dust, at an altitude of 26,000 feet. The ride down will be exhilarating so long as you don't think about the sudden stop at the end.

  5. Spelling. by saintlupus · · Score: 2, Funny

    Tumours? Does this only work on Canadian cancer patients?

    --saint

    1. Re:Spelling. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      it's never lupus

    2. Re:Spelling. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes. Find your own cancer drug.

    3. Re:Spelling. by hyades1 · · Score: 2, Informative

      No, it works on all cancer patients who spell properly.

      --
      I've calculated my velocity with such exquisite precision that I have no idea where I am.
    4. Re:Spelling. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      by saintlupus (227599) writes: on Thursday May 13, @05:21PM (#32200262) Homepage

      Technically, Dr. House, wasn't it lupus this time? So that would be twice it was lupus.

    5. Re:Spelling. by laughing_badger · · Score: 2, Informative

      Nope, u should be fine anywhere in the rest of the world outside of America too :)

      --
      Help children born unable to swallow - www.tofs.org.uk
    6. Re:Spelling. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, the treatment requires that Vitamin Eh be present in the bloodstream.

  6. Where the money goes by BitZtream · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Most of the time it goes to organizations the give out grants to companies to do the research and testing. Unfortunately what happens is it gets given out to Glaxo and the like, which then uses the money to research and test ... and patent what they come up with.

    Some of the money goes to universities who research it, patent it, and sell it to drug companies so they can raise their own salaries.

    This would be all fine and dandy if the drug companies gave back.

    They do give back, but they don't give back anything like they get. They give back just enough to say 'we give back' in little strategic bits that make for good publicity.

    --
    Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
    1. Re:Where the money goes by ducomputergeek · · Score: 3, Insightful

      More like curing cancer would put the charities out of business. It's like the March of Dimes. They're goal was to wipe out Polio. When that happen, they didn't exactly fold the tents and go home.

      --
      "The problem with socialism is eventually you run out of other people's money" - Thatcher.
    2. Re:Where the money goes by BitZtream · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It would also put the drug companies produce the cure in a really crappy spot.

      This is why medical research should be publicly funded and public property.

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
    3. Re:Where the money goes by pluther · · Score: 5, Informative

      Notice, though, that the March of Dimes didn't try to block the Polio vaccine, or lobby against it in any way.

      Instead, they switched to other things to wipe out, and have apparently made great progress on all sorts of various birth defects now...

      --
      If the masses can keep you down, you're not the Ubermensch.
    4. Re:Where the money goes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is why medical research should be publicly funded and public property.

      Yeah, it should be just like government funded movie production, like you know, cuz government funded movies from Europe dramatically exceed in quality and quantity anything that Hollywood ever produces.

      Sheesh. Damn economically illiterate /.ers.

    5. Re:Where the money goes by Chris+Burke · · Score: 4, Informative

      More like curing cancer would put the charities out of business. It's like the March of Dimes. They're goal was to wipe out Polio. When that happen, they didn't exactly fold the tents and go home.

      So... you mean it's like the opposite of the March of Dimes.

      Great example.

      --

      The enemies of Democracy are
    6. Re:Where the money goes by mi · · Score: 3, Interesting

      This is why medical research should be publicly funded and public property.

      Right. Because the selfless, benevolent government officials will be happy about losing their funding (and risk their cushy government jobs), when the cure is found — unlike those evil corporate drones, out to perpetuate our ills for, dare I say it, profit...

      Back to the question at hand, the money, obviously, goes to raising awareness. Gee, the easiest question in a week!

      --
      In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
    7. Re:Where the money goes by blueg3 · · Score: 1

      Yeah, we're in serious danger of curing every major disease, thus putting medical researchers out of business.

    8. Re:Where the money goes by FuckingNickName · · Score: 1

      cuz government funded movies from Europe dramatically exceed in quality and quantity anything that Hollywood ever produces.

      Not "ever". But, in general, yes, you couldn't be more right. Hollywood is source of some of the worst entertainment and politics the Western world has to endure.

    9. Re:Where the money goes by sjames · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately, we're currently in no danger of running out of things that have no cure, so their job would be safe. If they manage to actually find cures for every known disease, they can just define old-age as a disease and keep going. And the cheaper the actual drugs involved are, the more room there is in the budget for pork.

      It turns out that sometimes the best treatment is simple, cheap, and effective. It would be a shame to let those (and the people who need them) languish while big pharma looks for complicated, expensive, and perhaps as effective.

    10. Re:Where the money goes by geekoid · · Score: 1

      " happy about losing their funding"

      if it because the found a cure to cancers, then yes they would.

      I mean really, who would want a Noble prize, public recognition, and be able to write there own ticket on there next lab.

      I would also suspect that there would be other things to work on. I mean "Cured Cancer" on ones resume will probably get you a few interviews..and books.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    11. Re:Where the money goes by SimonInOz · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Basically this is a problem with corporations. They have no morals. The law treats them as pseudo-humans, but they are not.

      In fact, by most definitions, they are psychotic.

      They are incredibly paranoid (with trained attack lawyers), delusional (almost any management meeting), appalling bullies (Microsoft et al), manipulative (marketing, more lawyers), small-minded (the next quarter is the only thing).

      Do I need to go on? And yes, drug companies are among the worst - but think of tobacco companies, oil companies ...

      Company law needs to change in some way to make incorporated entities be more responsible.
      But how?

      --
      "Cats like plain crisps"
    12. Re:Where the money goes by shadowbearer · · Score: 1

        Who else is going to stomp on corporations that are abusing their power?

        Other corporations? The "free market" *cough*

          Is it easier for the masses to revolt against their corporate masters, or against their government masters?

          Oh, wait, at this point in time, it'll be both of them... ... but it won't happen, because most of the people in this country are either too fucking content with the garbage they get fed every day to care, or too politically polarized to actually remember that there are real problems.

          We are pretty well fucked.

        (To those who would say "well, run for public office" I say - get real. I don't throw myself into a tree mulcher, either, for the simple fact that I know it'll fuck me over, that's it's basic mode of operation. )

        What do we replace it with?

        DamnedifIknow, and I don't think anyone else does,either. But it is obvious that what we do have isn't working. I for one want to move offplanet; preferably way the hell offplanet, and there are many who share that view, for different reasons. So let's get off our asses and find a way to expand already...

      SB

      --
      It's old. The more humans I meet, the more I like my cats. At least they are honest.
    13. Re:Where the money goes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I dunno, that sounds like most people I've had the misfortune of meeting.

    14. Re:Where the money goes by Sarten-X · · Score: 1

      Instead of "giving back", they spend lots of money on things like my company, which helps make future research easier. If a company makes $10 billion on a cancer drug, they can either give $8 billion to the various foundations to give back to others, or make their own future research far cheaper. My company's product makes research faster, which means there can be more drugs coming out faster, and the various support organizations get more efficient use of their money.

      In other words, the drug companies' "cancer research" money also goes toward all kinds of other research, indirectly.

      --
      You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
    15. Re:Where the money goes by TooMuchToDo · · Score: 1

      So you're saying whatever government entity is doing this work is going to run out of diseases and ailments to cure? Doesn't sound too bad to me. As long as people suffer from disease, or die due to their bodies failing, there will always be work to be done.

    16. Re:Where the money goes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, not like there is more than just a select few things that need to be worked on.

      Only need to find a few cures and no real improvements on surgery techniques or anything like that.

      Sorry man, but if the did this, the only way they would lose too much funding is if they somehow managed to cure everything and fine tuned every surgical task conceived by man and even came up with ones no one ever thought of yet. So long as mankind is capable of getting sick or injured, there will always be a demand for coming up with better cures, remedies and surgical techniques to help them as quickly and painlessly as possible.

      There biggest threat would actually be from the government trying to divert funds to some pet war they have going on and even then, it would be near political suicide to even attempt it.

    17. Re:Where the money goes by Larryish · · Score: 1

      Make someone responsible.

      Dissolve corporations entirely and convert every business into a sole proprietorship or a partnership.

    18. Re:Where the money goes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Make it so that only workers can own stock. If they quit, they have to sell the stock. Once the workers are responsible for both the profits and their actions, they'll be less likely to a) think short term, and b) be complete asses about things.

    19. Re:Where the money goes by sFurbo · · Score: 1

      And it will be much harder to get funding for a start-up if you can't give the investors shares.

      Of course, there will always be loopholes, "this guy works for us, as a consultant, about 1 hour a week/month/year, from home. So he can own stocks".

    20. Re:Where the money goes by rdnetto · · Score: 1

      Hit them where it hurts: as an equivalent to imprisonment, prohibit dividends and fine them to the amount of all profits generated over a specified period.

      --
      Most human behaviour can be explained in terms of identity.
    21. Re:Where the money goes by aminorex · · Score: 1

      Opposites are much more similar than are things which are on orthogonal axes, so, yeah.

      --
      -I like my women like I like my tea: green-
    22. Re:Where the money goes by aminorex · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Very simple: Apply penalties for crimes. Apply the death penalty liberally, where death is understood to mean a revokation of the corporate charter, and the return of funds to shareholders after outstanding liabilities are acquitted.

      The problem with corporations is not so much that they are treated as persons, but that they are treated as persons who are above the law. As a society, we fear the creative destruction which is actually beneficial to all.

      --
      -I like my women like I like my tea: green-
    23. Re:Where the money goes by mi · · Score: 1

      So you're saying whatever government entity is doing this work is going to run out of diseases and ailments to cure? Doesn't sound too bad to me.

      Of course it does not sound bad — whether the entity is governmental or private. My response was to the sentiment, that medical research must run by the government, because, somehow, government's employees are not as worried about losing their jobs, as the private industry ones...

      The illogic goes like this:

      • There is no money in cure, because, once everyone is healthy, people stop paying.
      • Corporations care only about money.
      • Corporations aren't looking for cure (worse, if they accidentally find one, they'll sabotage it).
      • Therefor, all medical research must be done by the government.

      I posit, that this cynical line of thinking is just as attributable to government as corporate managers... At least, corporations have to compete with each other, whereas the government can simply outlaw the competition...

      --
      In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
    24. Re:Where the money goes by mi · · Score: 1

      Yeah, we're in serious danger of curing every major disease, thus putting medical researchers out of business.

      Evidently, the people advocating a government takeover of medical research are sure, it is the big-pharma's sabotage, that prevents cures from becoming widely available...

      --
      In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
    25. Re:Where the money goes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't worry, Rush Limbaugh told me the free market will work out all problems on its own.

    26. Re:Where the money goes by blueg3 · · Score: 1

      You're going to have to use actual English if you want to make a point. Do you mean, "Evidently the people advocating a government takeover of medical research are sure that it's Big Pharma's sabotage that prevents cures from becoming widely available."?

      That neither addresses my point nor is what the comment you refer to actually said.

    27. Re:Where the money goes by Chris+Burke · · Score: 1

      Similar in that they both speak to the same subject.

      An orthogonal example would neither support nor refute the premise, it would just be irrelevant.

      An example of something that is the opposite of the premise refutes that premise.

      So, yeah, it was a great example for proving himself wrong.

      --

      The enemies of Democracy are
    28. Re:Where the money goes by mi · · Score: 1

      You're going to have to use actual English

      The comas, which I used, were appropriate. Check with your English teacher.

      That neither addresses my point nor is what the comment you refer to actually said.

      Not interested.

      --
      In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
    29. Re:Where the money goes by sac13 · · Score: 1

      This is why medical research should be publicly funded and public property.

      I sure as hell don't want to rely on the government to figure out how to fix a problem. Is there anything they've out-innovated the private sector at? I suppose you could argue space technology, but most of that is because of the laws that prevented a lot of the private work from being done.

      How about we just do away with the patents and make the process to get new drugs to market faster and more efficient? It seems to me the answer is less government involvement, especially if your goal is innovation.

    30. Re:Where the money goes by pnutjam · · Score: 1
    31. Re:Where the money goes by snadrus · · Score: 1

      Courts currently require this profit-hungry attitude. If instead they measured adherence to a mission statement (corporate contract) then peer pressure would come in to play. Who wants to be on the Fortune 500 list of most evil mission statements?

      --
      Science & open-source build trust from peer review. Learn systems you can trust.
    32. Re:Where the money goes by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      No, death needs to mean just that: death. If a corporation receives the death penalty, then its executives need to be lined up and shot.

    33. Re:Where the money goes by blueg3 · · Score: 1

      The comas, which I used, were appropriate. Check with your English teacher.

      There's another "m" in "commas". While technically this sentence is legitimate English, indicating that you used commas adds nothing to the statement, "The commas were appropriate." You probably meant, "The commas that I used were appropriate." To be really pedantic, all commas are the same. It's not really meaningful to refer to an appropriate or inappropriate comma. A good sentence would be, "I used commas appropriately."

      It's a moot point. You did not use commas appropriately.

      Not interested.

      Yes, it's quite clear that your approach to discourse follows the stereotype suggested by your stance on the subject and your sig.

  7. Broken Link In Summary by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    From TFS:

    first clinical trial against brain tumours

    From TFA:

    Sorry, this story is not available.

    1. Re:Broken Link In Summary by Lurching · · Score: 1

      None of their stories are available from their site - regional block?

    2. Re:Broken Link In Summary by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't think that this is a region block. I am in Calgary and am getting the same error...

    3. Re:Broken Link In Summary by twidarkling · · Score: 1

      I'm in Edmonton, and I accessed it fine. So either a *highly* selective region block, or it was broken for a while.

      --
      Canada: The US's more awesome sibling.
    4. Re:Broken Link In Summary by compro01 · · Score: 1

      It's working for me over here in Saskatchewan.

      --
      upon the advice of my lawyer, i have no sig at this time
  8. couldn't patent? by Lord+Ender · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Drug companies can patent just about anything, so long as they do the research and file the patent. Example: a drug called Finasteride 5mg, which treats enlarged prostates, was discovered by its maker, Merck, to stop male pattern baldness. But the patent for Finasteride is expired. Merck did some studies and found that a 1mg dose was enough to treat baldness, and got the 1mg dose (Propecia) approved by the FDA. They patented the 1mg dose and to this day, 1mg Finasteride costs $60/month ($2 per pill), whereas 5mg Finasteride pills (the same drug, different dose) is basically free from generic drug manufacturers.

    The moral of the story is that he who does the research gets the patent, even if the chemical itself cannot be patented.

    --
    A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
    1. Re:couldn't patent? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thus proving that men who have enlarged prostates are 5 times more likely to be bald than normal.

      What? Isn't that what you were getting at?

    2. Re:couldn't patent? by geekoid · · Score: 1

      Ha, I patented .5mg twice a day.

      Suck on that, Merck.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    3. Re:couldn't patent? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, the patent is for the chemical plus a specific usage.

      And there is a number of generic producing company that slightly modify the chemical formulation of a drug and sell them at a fraction of the cost.

      You have to really take into account the time and money it takes to make a drug: 1 to 1.5B and 10 to 15 years. Take into account that the success rate for a drug making it to the market is pathetically low (a bit over 2%), you'll understand why it costs so much over the production costs...

    4. Re:couldn't patent? by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      So what exactly is to stop someone from selling the generic chemical for the new (patented) use? Or someone getting the generic and using it themselves for the new usage?

  9. Lifestyle by markdavis · · Score: 1

    >"It also raises the question of where all the money donated to cancer societies [...] goes, if not to actual cancer research like this."

    Apparently a lot of it goes to marketing type stuff trying to convince people to change their lifestyles. At least, that is what I have noticed the most.

    1. Re:Lifestyle by RabbitWho · · Score: 1

      You noted marketing the most? Well go figure.
      Please don't spread assumptions.

      I used to work for the Irish Cancer Society and I highly resent all this cynical speculation.
      It doesn't take much searching on Google to find all the great work they do.
      How much goes to research vs. screening vs. education vs. awareness vs. treatment completely depends on which cancer charity, with many giving 100% to research.

    2. Re:Lifestyle by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There's a lot of little things involved that people probably don't think about when it comes to cancer until it hits someone they know. My grandmother had to go down state for radiation and chemotherapy and stayed in charity-run lodging.

      Cancer prevention through advocacy is really important -- stop smoking, cut back on the drinking, and eat more vegetables and less charred meat -- but it's hardly the only focus of these charities. Should the charities do the cancer drug research, which already has a ton of funding poured into it and is being pursued by the drug companies (arguably the best people to research drugs, even if what happens after isn't always the right thing)? Or should they handle the stuff that isn't being handled because there isn't profit to be made from it, like lodging, support groups and advocacy?

      I know grandma wouldn't have minded if there was a pill to make lung cancer disappear overnight, but I suspect that wouldn't have happened even if the charities pooled their money and dumped every cent into research (throwing more money at the problem doesn't necessarily mean the breakthroughs happen faster.) I do know she greatly appreciated having a place to stay with people who understood what she was going through.

  10. Penn and Teller talked about this on "Bullsh*t" by fusiongyro · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Money spent on e.g. breast cancer awareness goes towards raising awareness of breast cancer, not to finding a cure or even a treatment. It's the same with every other X cancer awareness non-profit charitable organization.

    1. Re:Penn and Teller talked about this on "Bullsh*t" by Thelasko · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Money spent on e.g. breast cancer awareness goes towards raising awareness of breast cancer

      Except some of those charities explicitly say, "For the Cure." If they are spending the money on awareness and not finding a cure, that is flagrant false advertising.

      --
      One of our competitors trademarked the term "hypothesis". From now on, we will call them "boneheaded ideas".
    2. Re:Penn and Teller talked about this on "Bullsh*t" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Money spent on e.g. breast cancer awareness goes towards raising awareness of breast cancer, not to finding a cure or even a treatment. It's the same with every other X cancer awareness non-profit charitable organization.

      Also most charities are in the business of raising money not solving the problems of the world. The best of the charities only use 10% to 35% of the money for administration and fund raising. 50% isn't uncommon and some use 90% for "expenses". One major charity they couldn't find evidence that any money ever was paid out for the intended purpose. Non-profit simply means they don't claim profits. Paying out bonuses for some reason isn't considered profit.

    3. Re:Penn and Teller talked about this on "Bullsh*t" by pz · · Score: 5, Informative

      Money spent on e.g. breast cancer awareness goes towards raising awareness of breast cancer, not to finding a cure or even a treatment. It's the same with every other X cancer awareness non-profit charitable organization.

      Also, the amount of money for awareness isn't very large compared to the amount of money required to do human-based research. My small research lab has a relatively modest budget of USD 250k per year (*thank* *you*, NIH, and *thank* *you* to all you taxpayers out there). The total cost my institution will bill the government for my lab over the five years of the grant I have is about $2.25 million, including overhead. Now a couple of million dollars is a gob-smacking amount of money by most individual people's scales, but it's just one small biology lab. We're working with test-tubes, not humans ... at least not yet.

      A hoo-ha-break-out-the-champagne fund raiser would net $1 million. That's a fantastically successful fund raiser. But it would only run my lab for about two years. If I wanted to do a Phase-I clinical trial, it would take two-to-three times that amount of money. Phase-II would be about ten times that. Phase-III is not something that could be done at my home institution alone.

      So public-based fund raising for breast cancer, autism, kidney disease, coronary disease, glaucoma, what-have-you, is wonderful. But it's on the wrong scale to fund research or human drug testing. I'm deeply impressed that anyone was able to raise enough money for an independent drug trial.

      --

      Put my fist through my alarm clock with its ding-dong death inside my ear. - The Blackjacks.
    4. Re:Penn and Teller talked about this on "Bullsh*t" by bit01 · · Score: 1

      Phase-II would be about ten times that.

      So why is it so horrendously inefficient? Seems to me it's time for some research on how to improve the efficiency of clinical trials, not on drugs per se.

      The drug industry as a whole is extraordinarily inefficient and wasteful, spending huge amounts of money on marketing instead of research, and on pushing drugs that have been shown not to work instead of real treatments. Drug companies today are far too often little more than the snake oil peddlers of old with shiny white coats.

      ---

      The USA is <5% of the world's population. It is statistically insignificant.

    5. Re:Penn and Teller talked about this on "Bullsh*t" by Sarten-X · · Score: 2, Informative

      It's inefficient because of how hard it is to find patients suitable for a clinical trial. Good science requires isolating variables. A hypothetical hospital may have a hundred cancer patients. Half of them are long-term smokers, but the drug is known (through test-tube experiments) to interact with the residual pollutants, so they're out of the trial. Of the remaining fifty, ten have been known to be unreliable with their medications.They're out, too. Of the forty left, thirty have the wrong kind of cancer. Only ten are left, and five of them are using other drugs that work with the same chemical as this drug, so (possibly fatal) interactions are likely. Three more have various outside-the-hospital factors that affect their ability to participate (they live next to a Superfund site, have a highly stressful life, etc). That leaves only two individuals that appear to be useful for the trial at this hospital.

      If the trial needs more than those two people, the whole process has to be repeated at another hospital. When you include factors such as the cost of lawyers (to verify that personal information stays personal), plane tickets (to make those all-important face-to-face meetings), review board meetings (to ensure that the trial is actually going to be useful before patients are contacted), the monetary price goes way up.

      The drug companies are well aware of how inefficient the process is, and solutions are under progress.

      --
      You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
    6. Re:Penn and Teller talked about this on "Bullsh*t" by PatrickThomson · · Score: 1

      Amen to that. I've worked MedChem in both industry and academia, and neither of them are particularly cheap. In industry we were shovelling cash into furnaces (automated chromatography, LC/MS on every floor, 2 fume hoods each, 400MHz NMR for 12 scientists) because the relative cost of the trials were something like 90-95% of the total cost of bringing a drug to market.

      --
      I am one of many. My idea is not unique, nor do I expect my voice alone to sway you. I speak in a chorus of opinion.
    7. Re:Penn and Teller talked about this on "Bullsh*t" by guyminuslife · · Score: 1

      I just don't have a good grasp on the whole "awareness" thing. There are plenty of things that plenty of people are not aware of, and probably should be, but it just doesn't seem that the more common deadly diseases fall in that category.

      Q: "Were you aware of breast cancer?"
      A: "Why no, I've never heard of that. Is that white meat chicken stuffed with crab meat?"
      Q: "No, in fact, it's a life-threatening illness where doctors have to cut your boobs off to save your life."
      A: "Outrage! Every boob is sacred! Why aren't we doing anything about this most important issue?!"

      If the "awareness" is meant to drum up political support or funding, then okay, but I don't understand the strategy other than that.

      --
      I don't believe in time. It's a grand conspiracy designed to sell watches.
    8. Re:Penn and Teller talked about this on "Bullsh*t" by pz · · Score: 1

      So why is it so horrendously inefficient?

      Because it's nearly all labor and hospital costs. When you go to the doctor to get a procedure done, the total bill is not your USD 10 or 15 co-pay, but rather a much larger sum that gets paid by your insurance company. There is no such thing as insurance for procedures done as part of a clinical trial, so the organization running the trial must pay the medical bills. Those costs really are very expensive because they are, in turn, mostly labor costs and liability coverage.

      --

      Put my fist through my alarm clock with its ding-dong death inside my ear. - The Blackjacks.
    9. Re:Penn and Teller talked about this on "Bullsh*t" by Rich0 · · Score: 1

      Yup - clinical trials cost a fortune. Most of the costs of developing a drug are in the trials - tens of millions of dollars each and hundreds of millions of dollars in total (and that is when they're run assembly-line style by organizations that do nothing but run and supply trials 24x7).

      I think half of it is essentially corporate welfare for doctors and hospitals. The costs you point out are very real of course. You also need to factor in that if you pay a doctor $100 per visit per subject and somebody else offers $150 per visit per subject then you won't get any subjects. There seems to be a lot more demand for subjects than supply. Of course, the actual volunteers don't see a dime of this money, and chances are their doctor doesn't mention to them that they are recommending experimental treatment A over experimental treatment B because they get more money out of it. Not that doctors would actually do anything like base treatment decisions on their financial interests...

      Actually, if you look at the FDA's debarment list (a list of people forbidden to work on pharmaceuticals or trials), you'll find most are doctors. The most typical offense is signing up people for trials who shouldn't be in the trials so that they can get paid all the associated fees. This is bad for everybody. The patient gets experimental drugs that may not help them, or might even hurt them. The pharmaceutical company gets clinical trial data that contains more noise, which means they have to subject even more people to experimental medication to find out if it works or not, and pay more money as a result. The public ends up with less accurate clinical trial data, which might mean that a drug that actually works doesn't get approved (which means people don't benefit from it, or maybe they keep taking inferior drugs that are actually less safe even though the trial data suggests otherwise).

      Human clinical trials are a mess. Their ability to generate meaningful data is also very weak compared to things like animal testing. The problem is that they're all we have, so we need to make the most of them.

      The GP is right that the only way we can see independent trials happen is if the government funds them - or maybe VERY LARGE charities. I'm all for it - if an independent trial might benefit the public by showing benefit from a cheap "new" drug, or nail the coffin in a bad drug, then let's have it. And I'm generally in favor of drug patents. Competition is always good for consumers and it keeps private companies more honest.

  11. where does it go? by JustNiz · · Score: 5, Informative

    >> It also raises the question of where all the money donated to Canadian and other cancer societies, and especially the billions spent buying merchandise with little pink ribbons on it goes, if not to actual cancer research like this."

    Answer:
    http://www.preventcancer.com/losing/acs/wealthiest_links.htm

    1. Re:where does it go? by MobyDisk · · Score: 4, Informative

      That article is a bit sketchy, and way out of date. Take a look at this instead: Charity Navigator on the American Cancer Society

      I trust Charity Navigator a lot more than thus guy. His site looks like a non-profit organization, but it seems to be just one guy looking for a way to sell his own books. All the publications on the site are written by this one guy, Samuel Epstein. He criticizes the ACS, but his nonprofit isn't even listed on Charity Navigator.

      in 1988 the ACS held a fund balance of over $400 million...Of that money, the ACS spent only $90 million— 26 percent of its budget— on medical research and programs

      That was 22 years ago! Based on Charity Navigator, they spent 6.9% on administrative expenses, and 72.8% on programs. The names he mentions in his article aren't current.

      It was probably a good criticism in it's time, and it appears that the ACS has reformed -- perhaps as a result of the article.

    2. Re:where does it go? by mmaniaci · · Score: 1

      Yet we still do not see any cures... only new, incredibly expensive, and patented treatments. The virus that is the ACS simply evolved to suit the new climate, and I don't consider that reform. I want an anti-cancer organization who's official mission goal is to make itself useless by the eradication of all cancer. Raising awareness is a farce when people are dying by the hundreds-of-thousands a year.

      One more thing: research grants to private corporations are still considered "program expenses." To adapt Murphy's Law: that which can be corrupted, will be corrupted.

    3. Re:where does it go? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It might also be worth noting that although only 6.9 percent of their 1 billion dollars goes to administrative expenses, the deputy CEO makes over a million dollars. Just sayin.

    4. Re:where does it go? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >> It also raises the question of where all the money donated to Canadian and other cancer societies, and especially the billions spent buying merchandise with little pink ribbons on it goes, if not to actual cancer research like this."

      Answer:
      http://www.preventcancer.com/losing/acs/wealthiest_links.htm

      The Canadian Cancer Society publishes financial statements, which can be found here:

      http://www.cancer.ca/Canada-wide/About%20us/CW-Financial%20statements.aspx?sc_lang=en

      I'll skip the analysis, but if you take a look, they break down their revenue by sources and their expenditures by type. They also show what assets they have and so on. In other words, they show all the typical stuff required for financial statements. It'd be interesting to do an full analysis, but even though I'm a business major I am not an accountant.

    5. Re:where does it go? by MobyDisk · · Score: 1

      Agreed.

      The ACS is definitely not a 4-star charity. Even if they were, what they do isn't really that important. I say this even though I have lost a family member to cancer, and another one was cured. There are better places to put your money.

    6. Re:where does it go? by MobyDisk · · Score: 1

      I agree. The ACS is not the best charity to donate to. Charity Navigator gives them 3 stars, so they aren't the worst - but they are still fairly inefficient, and as an AC pointed out their CEO makes millions of dollars.

      One more thing: research grants to private corporations are still considered "program expenses."

      I don't know about you, but I don't see a problem with that. It isn't perfect, but I don't think all research must be done by schools or non-profits. That isn't realistic unfortunately.

  12. A much better page on Science Daily... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/05/100512141909.htm

    Generic Drug May Be Potential Treatment for Deadly Brain Cancer

    ScienceDaily (May 13, 2010) — Medical researchers at the University of Alberta have reported evidence that the orphan generic drug dichloroacetate (DCA) may hold promise as potential therapy for perhaps the deadliest of all human cancers: a form of brain cancer called glioblastoma.

    The report is published at the journal Science Translational Medicine, a journal of the American Association of the Advancement of Science.

    In 2007 the U of A team led by Dr. Evangelos Michelakis, published evidence that DCA reverses cancer growth in non-human models and test tubes. The team showed then that DCA achieves these antitumor effects by altering the metabolism of cancer. By altering the way cancer handles its nutrient fuels, specifically the sugars, DCA was able to take away cancer's most important strength, the resistance to death. Since then, several independent groups across the world have confirmed the Alberta team's findings. In December 2009, the editors of "Science" predicted that cancer metabolism is one of only 5 areas across all scientific disciplines, to "watch for major breakthroughs" in 2010.

    The U of A team set out to show that the way that DCA works in actual patients is the same with the way it works in the lab. In addition, researchers wanted to show whether DCA is safe and possibly effective in very sick patients with brain cancer.

    By extracting glioblastomas from 49 patients over a period of 2 years and studying them within minutes of removal in the operating room, the team showed that tumors respond to DCA by changing their metabolism. Then, the team treated 5 patients with advanced glioblastoma and secured tumor tissues before and after the DCA therapy. By comparing the two, the team showed that DCA works in these tumors exactly as was predicted by test tube experiments. This is very important because often the results in non-human models tested in the lab do not agree with the results in patients. In addition, the team showed that DCA has anti-cancer effects by altering the metabolism of glioblastoma cancer stem cells, the cells thought responsible for the recurrences of cancer.

    In the 5 patients tested, the drug took 3 months to reach blood levels high enough to alter the tumor's metabolism. At those levels, there were no significant adverse effects. However, at some of the higher doses tested, DCA caused nerve malfunction, i.e. numbing of toes and fingers. Importantly, in some patients there was also evidence for clinical benefit, with the tumors either regressing in size or not growing further during the 18 month study.

    No conclusions can be made on whether the drug is safe or effective in patients with this form of brain cancer, due to the limited number of patients tested by the study's leads Drs Michelakis and Petruk. Researchers emphasize that use of DCA by patients or physicians, supplied from for-profit sources or without close clinical observation by experienced medical teams in the setting of research trials, is not only inappropriate but may also be dangerous. The U of A results are encouraging and support the need for larger clinical trials with DCA. This work is also one of the first in humans to support the emerging idea that altering the metabolism of tumors is a new direction in the treatment of cancer, Michelakis and Petruk said.

    The research team hopes to secure additional funding to continue the ongoing trials with DCA at the University of Alberta. Further studies would include more patients with brain cancer, and test the combination of DCA and standard chemotherapies, eventually including patients from other academic health sciences centres.

    One of the intriguing features of this work was that it was funded largely by public donations, including philanthropic foundations and individuals. In addition, it received strong support by Alberta public institutions, both the University of Alberta and Alber

  13. Re:Cheap Dancer Drug by B4D+BE4T · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    You, sir, are and idiot

    Oh, the irony...

  14. Re:Cheap Dancer Drug by kyrio · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    There is no irony. It's a meme and you failed at life.

  15. For answers to the question -- by dwiget001 · · Score: 0

    -- about cancer societies and research.

    Read books like "Murder by Injection" and similar.

    The various disease societies are pretty much PR/Marketing arms or heavily supported organizations of pharmaceutical companies and the like. Does some good come of their activities, yes. Does a some bad (in the forms of where their loyalties lie) come from their activities, yes.

    1. Re:For answers to the question -- by geekoid · · Score: 2, Insightful

      How about you read something that isn't full of lies?

      Fuck. I can't beliecve a thinking person would actually reference that piece of shit.

      Why don't yuo include a reference of his book on the federal reserve and his views on Jews to get the full trifecta of crap?

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    2. Re:For answers to the question -- by dwiget001 · · Score: 1

      O.K., I have.

      I have read 50 plus books A FRICKEN YEAR for over 28 years now. I mentioned one book out of over 1400 books I have read in that time.

      The one book I mentioned got me started on my own research into the area, there is definitely some good, and definitely some bad in the relationships between pharmaceutical companies, the AMA, various medical research institutes and various societies.

      And, for final full disclosure, I have met the author of "Murder By Injection", about 15 years ago. I do not agree with all of his writings, and totally reject his anti-Semitic views/writings (heck, I was married to an Israeli for nine years, been to Israel twice, etc.). Nice man, generally, but very much "out there" on a number of things.

      Hope that helps, have a nice day.
         

  16. Never forget that... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "A patient cured is a customer lost"

  17. Really? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why are they creating a drug that creates cancer? That seems like the exact opposite of what they should be doing!

  18. Who cares? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Cancer was cured last month:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/manchester/4423847.stm

  19. Overheads by s-whs · · Score: 1

    Money spent on e.g. breast cancer awareness goes towards raising awareness of breast cancer, not to finding a cure or even a treatment. It's the same with every other X cancer awareness non-profit charitable organization.

    Except that it almost certainly doesn't go fully to raising awareness. Most is probably spent on overheads as with many charities. Such overheads include large expensive buildings, ridiculous salaries for people on the 'board' etc.

    Here in the Netherlands there was an outrage about the heart foundation's director getting a salary of nearly 200,000 euro (annually) a few years ago. And rightly so. If you're in a charity, you should make do with a more modest salary because of the fact that the money should go to research/prevention etc., not paying a fat-cat. The people who collect the money are usually volunteers and get nothing, yet the guy/guys in the top positions get loads of money basically for being nothing more than a secretary/secretaries.

    1. Re:Overheads by cduffy · · Score: 3, Interesting

      A small medical software startup I once worked at had some extra office space we weren't using, which we donated to a local non-profit doing research to help support policy making on health-related issues.

      We were working on folding tables with the cheapest office equipment we could get; they had beautiful wood desks, a huge high-speed copier/fax/scanner, bought (excellent) SNOM VoIP phones compared to the cheapo Grandstreams we were using, and otherwise clearly paid far, far less attention to minimizing their expenses.

    2. Re:Overheads by TooMuchToDo · · Score: 1
      I had the same experience with the United Way. Know who you're donating to and what money is getting spent on.

      http://www.charitynavigator.org/

  20. Open Source Medicine by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    For years now I have been following the progress of DCA by lurking on thedcasite, where people exchange information about their own DCA use to fight cancer. It's an amazing story of Open Source Medicine, as it builds up one testimonial at a time. Dr. Michelakis, who leads the U of A group that discovered its potential for cancer treatment, is vehemently opposed to its use outside of clinical trials, and he has used his influence to make it unavailable in Alberta. There are doctors in Canada who will prescribe it off-label to cancer patients, but most of them choose to remain anonymous for fear of censure. Medicore Clinic in Toronto, however, has a practice openly specializing in the treatment of cancer with DCA. They have done their best to publish objective results on their website. Given that most of their patients have exhausted other avenues of treatment, I would say their results are impressive. TFA tells us that it has only been used on 5 patients, but in reality there is a large body of practical knowledge being gathered about its use. We know, for example, that it can reduce a cancer tumor so quickly that the body becomes overwhelmed with the byproduct of that, a condition called tumor lysis syndrome (TLS). We are discovering that it is more effective in people who drink a lot of black tea. Its only known side effect (other than TLS) is peripheral neuropathy, and this can be relieved somewhat with vitamin B supplements. Yet this knowledge, gained outside of official channels, is disdained as heresay. Governments expend tremendous effort to keep it out of the hands of cancer patients for fear of ... what? A terminal patient might live longer??

  21. Vitamin D by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yeah, it is called vitamin D. If you supplement at least 1,000 IUs and do not consume diary, you will not develop cancer later in life.

  22. Anonymous Coward. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Drug companies weren't willing to test a drug they could not patent"

    Fucking sickening

  23. Re:Cheap Dancer Drug by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Not recognizing a stupid meme is actually WINNING at life.

  24. Too little, too late... by fahrbot-bot · · Score: 3, Informative

    In four of the five glioblastoma patients, there was no further brain cancer growth after initial treatment. Follow-up studies on cells taken from these patients showed that DCA killed cancer cells.

    My wife died of a GBM (glioblastoma multiforme) in Jan 2006, 7 weeks after diagnosis - sigh. We were together for 20 years; I had hoped for many more.

    By-the-way, the cutting-edge drug for this is Temodar at a list price of $11,000 / month (for several months), but co-pay w/insurance: BCBS: 10%, Optima: $40 - go figure.

    --
    It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
    1. Re:Too little, too late... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My mother died of GBM in Jan 2009, exactly 11 months after diagnosis. She was 51.
      I hope this succeeds, so that no one else has to lose their loved ones because of this.
      I wish I could've done something to save her.

  25. what we should do by nimbius · · Score: 1

    is fire a warning shot across the bow of every pharmaceutical and huckster awareness group huddled close to the money-teat of sorrow and suffering. Open Source curative medicines would i think turn the tides.

    --
    Good people go to bed earlier.
    1. Re:what we should do by blair1q · · Score: 1

      Uh-huh. And where are the "open source" community going to get the money to pay for the clinical trials? How many in this community are willing to do thousands of pro-bono hours of legal paperwork just to get a trial noticed by the FDA? This isn't like writing a new search tool. Your suck can't languish on SourceForge for years, baiting people into corrupting their filesystems while you're off dealing with something else. Your product has to be tested on real human beings, after reams of other data has been produced.

      I don't mind big pharma companies owning their stuff. I do mind that they charge way more than it cost to develop. And it should be illegal to spend more on advertising than they do on development just to create false competitive pressure to keep the prices high. And I'm pretty sure that some of the things they do in terms of fixing prices in various nations are illegal, but nobody's actually doing anything concrete about it (although, iirc, this was one of the points in one of the healthcare bills being voted on; though the GOP so thoroughly fucked up the legislative process on it that as of now I have no clue what we actually got from what was actually passed).

    2. Re:what we should do by geekoid · · Score: 1

      but how do you do that? OS works in software becasue by it's nature, it's cheap to do.

      Phamacuticlas are not.

      Contrary to popular belief, the Pharmaceutical companies make money from helping people, and yes even cures.
        we need regulation and have it.

      Add to that, the patent on drugs isn't that long.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  26. There's no one cure for cancer. by blair1q · · Score: 3, Informative

    The current means of "curing" cancer is to poison the cells that have cancer, which sometimes mean poisoning all of your cells and hoping the ones with cancer are more susceptible to the poison. If they die before you do, you are cured. If not, well, then you "died of cancer".

    The actual cure for cancer would involve making the damaged DNA not be damaged any more. But it's not just the DNA, it's also the biological nanomachines that replicate and repair the DNA.

    Personally I don't think it's impossible. But the difference between the current medicine and that kind of medicine is like the difference between splashing a bucket of paint on a wall and rendering Avatar in real-time.

    We are as da Vinci in the middle ages, all imagination and no concept of technology, drawing pictures of flying machines made of sticks and sack-cloth with all the aerodynamic efficiency of a mid-air collision. The real things may be centuries off. Or maybe decades, if technology has taught us anything about accelerating technological change, and if greed hasn't so crippled the medical-research industry that it prefers maximizing long-term profit from poison to actually finding a cure.

    1. Re:There's no one cure for cancer. by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

      Cancerous cells aren't just regular ones that have gone bad, they're new cells that don't belong wherever they are. With most tumor forming cancers it's the mass effect that gets you - the tumor gets big enough that it just won't fit and either ruptures something or presses on something too hard.

      You do not want to "fix" cancer cells. You want to kill them and have the body's naturally housekeeping equipment break them down and remove the debris.

  27. Similar situation with Multiple Sclerosis by ozarkcanoer · · Score: 1

    There's a similar situation occurring with MS patients and the research findings about CCSVI. It's a radical departure from the accepted theory about MS because it points at vascular problems in MS sufferers' veins that drain the brain. Chronic Cerbrospinal Vascular Insuffciency (CCSVI) can be treated with balloon venoplasty that is safe and relatively low cost or with stents. The issue at present is many neurologists and the MS Societies of US and Canada have resisted pushing funds to validating the hypothosis and doing trial to show the efficacy and safety. So patients are traveling to Poland, Bulgaria to get treated. Big Pharma is also threatened because MS drugs are a very very big money maker for Teva and others. Some nurologists are crying hoax and 'it can't be'. See http://csvi-ms.net/en for references to information about CCSVI.

  28. Conspiracy and patent claims not called for. by JoshuaZ · · Score: 1

    Claims about the big bad pharma companies not wanting to research this due to the inability to patent are inaccurate. See this analysis: http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2007/01/in_which_my_words_will_be_misinterpreted.php.

  29. Cures are not what are sought! by sfarber53 · · Score: 0

    "Healthcare" is not about health, it is about profit, just like everything else in our modern world.

    --
    Like the inimitable Groucho Marx, I would never join a club that would have me as a member.
  30. um, it goes to fund research like this? by Goldsmith · · Score: 3, Interesting

    It really depends on where you send your money, as someone here points out, awareness is not research. Some groups do sponsor research, but it's hard to really do trials without major, major funding.

    One thing you can assume that any money you spend on a research oriented charity is only half as effective as you would expect. Most research organizations (universities, national labs - medical research is popular at national labs now) charge ~50% overhead on all grants. That's 50% hopefully going toward facility maintenance, but possibly going to retain administrative "talent." That's after whatever non-profit you donate to takes its operating expenses out.

    Ok, so how much do human trials cost? If you raise $100k, that probably won't pay for one trial patient once it's been chopped into little pieces.

    This is also why you can get a PhD in microbiology, be an excellent cancer researcher and make less than $30k/year (NIH "minimum" is supposed to be ~$45k at this point by the original law, but they don't even have the resources to support that level themselves and fund the people they want to fund). Once you're allowed to spend money on in-lab expenses, you really try and stretch those dollars. Sometimes you take less money to work on the research you care about (and hope some company, university or non-profit makes it up to you later).

    I think it's amazing someone got up to human trials with this drug. It's a marvel of fund raising and organization. Really, very nice.

  31. But but but ... the Free Market! by blackpaw · · Score: 1

    Finds the best solution to everything!

    Damn commie pinko socialist government run testing program.

    1. Re:But but but ... the Free Market! by crdotson · · Score: 1

      How is parent a troll post? http://slashdot.org/moderation.shtml . "Simply disagreeing with a comment is not a valid reason to mark it down."

      No wonder he posted anonymously. Some of you freaks will probably moderate me down, too, but I think karma is overrated. :)

  32. Re:Cheap Dancer Drug by twidarkling · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Oh my, YOU haven't heard of a meme, so therefore it must not be common?! *gasp* how the FUCK could I have been so blind? Toss off, you arrogant fuck. It's a dirt-old meme, and more common than your mom's phone number in bathroom stalls. And I believe that since you practically live online, YOU fail at life.

    (And I'm aware that ranting at an AC also puts me in running for that failure, but I'm comfortable with that)

    --
    Canada: The US's more awesome sibling.
  33. "Not for profit" but all the money goes somewhere by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Not for profit" in the description of an organisation does not mean that someone is not making a very good living out of it.
    From personal experiece: Stop Aids Now, RIPE, UNESCO, and many, many more :--(

  34. Viagara is an indicator for CAD by pushf+popf · · Score: 3, Interesting

    It turns out that guys that need Viagra are at a hugely increased risk of a heat attack in the next few years. The same blocked arteries that make it difficult to get an erection are a needed for other functions such as "living". Erectile Dysfunction is a really great indicator for severe Coronary Artery Disease.

    Doctors are taking the easy way out and handing out boner pills instead of scheduling tests to see how long is is before the patient goes in for the "last roundup".

    1. Re:Viagara is an indicator for CAD by daem0n1x · · Score: 3, Funny

      At least they die happy...

    2. Re:Viagara is an indicator for CAD by moosesocks · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Coincidentally, this is the same exact disease that Viagra was designed to treat.

      It wasn't designed to treat ED -- it just turned out to have one really noticeable side-effect. It also wasn't expected to be the blockbuster that it is, as estimates for the prevalence of ED at the time were way off, as few men were willing to admit to having it, while no practical treatment options existed.

      (There's also a growing body of work suggesting that men who have sex frequently are less likely to get prostate cancer, so there's that... )

      So... yeah. Shame on them for accidentally creating a successful product.

      --
      -- If you try to fail and succeed, which have you done? - Uli's moose
    3. Re:Viagara is an indicator for CAD by Aphoxema · · Score: 1

      At least they die happy...

      It would be irresponsible happiness to be comforted in dying atop a loved one.

      --
      "Most people, I think, don't even know what a rootkit is, so why should they care about it?"
    4. Re:Viagara is an indicator for CAD by chip_s_ahoy · · Score: 1

      So I should apologize once I come back to life?

    5. Re:Viagara is an indicator for CAD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You should apologize once you come prematurely.

    6. Re:Viagara is an indicator for CAD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Q: What did Tarzan do when he came across Jane in the jungle?

      A: Wiped it off and tried again.

    7. Re:Viagara is an indicator for CAD by hesaigo999ca · · Score: 1

      >Erectile Dysfunction is a really great indicator for severe Coronary Artery Disease
      Or to show the damage from when you were younger and landed on your balls during a splits too many times to mention.

    8. Re:Viagara is an indicator for CAD by Dan+Ost · · Score: 1

      Doctors are taking the easy way out and handing out boner pills instead of scheduling tests to see how long is is before the patient goes in for the "last roundup".

      That's simply not true of any good doctor.

      If you have erectile dysfunction and your doctor hasn't shown any interest in determining why you have erectile dysfunction, get a new doctor.

      --

      *sigh* back to work...
    9. Re:Viagara is an indicator for CAD by midtoad · · Score: 1

      Wrong, or incomplete. One typical reason for erectile dsyfunction (ED) is treatment for prostate cancer, which damages the nerves that control erections. In this case, you can have zero CAD but still need the viagra. Without the viagra, men will not get the nightly erections that are necessary for prevention of scarring and damage to penile tissue.

      --
      - midtoad
      Umwelt schützen, Fahrrad benützen
    10. Re:Viagara is an indicator for CAD by theshowmecanuck · · Score: 1

      I did some work in the Philippines in 1999. While I was there, one of the newspapers reported on a guy who took six Viagra and then paid for the services of several 'Guest Relations Officers' GROs. That, by the way, is an official term for licensed prostitutes (at the time at least, it was up to the city in the Philippines if they would allow that kind of business, officially). Anyway, the guy died the next morning from basically pulmonary edema. The newspaper interviewed the hospital staff who had the common morbid/black humour of all emergency services workers. The thing was that unlike North American (and even some European) newspapers is that they included the hospital staff's comments on this. Like, "it was a hard way to go." Or, "he should have seen it coming." etc etc. I was on my way to Hong Kong and then London that morning and reading the article on board the plane while taxiing for take off. The comments were pretty funny in my opinion (I also have a dark sense of humour), and the other passengers kept looking at me perplexed as I was laughing my ass off reading it.

      --
      -- I ignore anonymous replies to my comments and postings.
  35. Also, drug companies don't give a shit about you by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This a side note but it's relevant inasmuch as it shows that drug companies truly don't care about patients. Propecia is actually quite dangerous. See propeciahelp.com for some horrible stories of permanent side effects that happened in a small percentage of men who took the drug. I am one of them, and I can attest to how life destroying they are. Does Merck know about these issues? Yes, they were informed years ago. Have they updated their product guidance? No. But then they did much the same thing with Vioxx.

  36. Biochemist Zheng Cui’s funding was cut by transporter_ii · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Biochemist Zheng Cui’s had grants and funding while researching cancer, but after he found a very promising approach to fight cancer -- it worked so well that he planed to move to human trials -- all the money dried up. Here is what he said:

    There is some private funding and the university put some funding into it. And also, at early stages when we studied the mechanisms of these mice, we had one Mitchell Cancer Institute grant, several small grants from Cancer Research Institute. But they all stopped funding me. It was kind of a strange situation. I thought it was our common goal to come up with a new weapon to fight cancer, but the moment I announced I had a new weapon to test in real human cancer situations, everybody shied away.

    Very interesting interview that can be read here: http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/4273366

    None dare call it a conspiracy!

    --
    Doctors destroy health, lawyers destroy justice, universities destroy knowledge, religion destroys spirituality
    1. Re:Biochemist Zheng Cui’s funding was cut by nbauman · · Score: 2, Informative

      Biochemist Zheng Cui’s had grants and funding while researching cancer, but after he found a very promising approach to fight cancer -- it worked so well that he planed to move to human trials -- all the money dried up.

      http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/4273366

      Popular Mechanics is not the best source for a comprehensive report on new cancer research, but as best as I can figure out that interview he seems to be describing something that's been used for 50 years. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hematopoietic_stem_cell_transplantation

      I know about this because I had a friend with leukemia who was looking for a donor with a match. I wanted to join the donor registry myself (not for my friend, which was very unlikely, but because it was possible that somebody somewhere in the world was a match for me) but I was too old.

      It would take someone who knows more about cancer immunotherapy than me to explain all the ways treatments like this have been tried before and usually failed, sometimes succeeded.

      But the idea of paying $100,000 for an experimental cancer treatment unapproved by the FDA and tested only in mice is enough to raise my eyebrows. The first human study after an animal study is a Phase I study, which is done not to cure but to establish a safe (and unsafe) dose. I can't imagine how he got it through the Wake Forest ethics committee.

      None dare call it a conspiracy!

      You just did. But this is /..

    2. Re:Biochemist Zheng Cui’s funding was cut by yamfry · · Score: 5, Informative

      The stem cell transplants currently used for leukemias and lymphomas involves completely eradicating the host immune system through chemotherapy and/or radiation therapy. Then a donor stem cell is implanted and is used to replace the host immune system (which will hopefully be completely eradicated and not pumping out cancer cells). Dr Cui's research is a little different. He is keeping the host immune system intact, but is taking sample immune cells from donors with cancer resistance and injecting them into the host. The goal is that the donor cells will kill the cancer but not the rest of the host's cells which leads to GVHD. This seems to work for solid tumours in rats. A good summary of is research is here.
      In the US, the usual FDA process for drug approval is to go through 3 phases of human trials (then a mandatory phase 4 during which adverse event data from the wild is gathered and analyzed). There is a Fast Track program at the FDA for serious diseases where there is a need for treatment options. This allows drugs to get approved faster by skipping steps and using surrogate end points instead of proving complete efficacy and safety.
      I'd be interested to hear the reasons that grants were not given to continue this research. It might have something to do with there not being a specific mechanism of action identifiable in his experiments. In his interview he admits that he has no idea why it works, but it seems to work. Sciency people don't like things like that. They probably have a better reason than "it seems a little hokey", though.

  37. Incentives by sjbe · · Score: 2, Interesting

    If you can charge a customer fifty grand for one course of chemo treatment for the rest of his life, then what is the incentive to find a cure?

    For the people charging the fifty grand probably not much unless their patent protection is about to run out. For everyone else who can charge nothing because they don't have a patented cure of their own there is plenty of incentive. Just because one drug company develops a treatment doesn't mean every other drug company and research institution will suddenly and forevermore stop all research on that topic.

    Well, I follow the news, so I am sure I will hear if they actually cure cancer.

    "Cure cancer" is a stupid phrase uttered by naive people. That's like saying you're going to "cure viruses" or "fix government". Cancer isn't one disease with a single cause. There never will be a "cure for cancer" because the phrase itself is almost meaningless. Doctors don't even refer to it as cancer amongst themselves. There might be a cure for a neuroblastoma or melanoma (and even those might ultimately refer to categories rather than specific conditions) but the word cancer is too broad to be meaningful in the context of a cure or even a treatment.

    1. Re:Incentives by Ken_g6 · · Score: 1

      "Cure cancer" is a stupid phrase uttered by naive people. That's like saying you're going to "cure viruses" or "fix government".

      Hey, we cured bacteria! Remember penicillin?

      Oh, wait, nevermind.

      --
      (T>t && O(n)--) == sqrt(666)
  38. Why awareness campaigns exist (and work) by sjbe · · Score: 1

    A lot of the big charities these days seem to be focused on "awareness" rather than "finding a cure".

    The awareness campaigns are designed to get the word out that there is a problem so that real money can ultimately be directed towards research for a cure. A good example is what happened with HIV. Compared to other diseases HIV has a relatively small patient population in the US but it has received vast amounts of media attention and as a result, money for research. This happened largely due to an awareness campaign by members of the most affected communities. Breast cancer is another good example. It is only the fifth most common cause of cancer death but it gets huge amounts of research money due to awareness campaigns.

    The short version is that if no one is aware of a problem, no money is going to go towards a finding a cure. No awareness = no money for research = no cure.

  39. DCA worked for me by abushga · · Score: 5, Interesting

    In 2008 I learned I had failed treatment for prostate cancer (72GY radiation & 2.5 years triple hormonal blockade). The disease was metastatic in skeleton and soft tissue with a PSA doubling time of 24 days which is very dangerous. Severe bleeding and bone pain quickly developed. Chemotherapy does not extend survival time for prostate cancer patients, moreover it has serious side effects. There was no clinical trial of DCA for prostate cancer. I decided to self-administer Sodium Dichloroacetate (DCA).

    DCA is an orphan drug which for 30+ years has been safely used in the U.S.A. to treat infants born with congenial lactic acidosis; also to treat cerebral ischemia among other conditions, so it is well described in the literature and the side effects are understood. It is not completely benign but is far safer in my opinion than radiation, hormonal blockade or chemotherapy. I had already done my homework and knew to watch for hypoglycemia. I limited my dose to 15mg/kg and took benfotiamine to minimize peripheral neuropathy, R+Lipoic Acid for hepatic support, and arranged regular lab work to monitor liver function.

    30 days after initiating DCA the pain in my hips and lower spine ceased. One day unremitting pain, the next day none. 60 days after starting DCA the profuse bleeding from bladder and colon ceased completely. My PSA doubling time dropped from 24 days to 72 months and stabilized.

    I developed a little numbness in my toes, which was expected. That is reversible over time. As with many cancer drugs, the evil little cells eventually developed resistance to DCA and I resumed androgen blockade for a time before switching to another self-administered novel treatment. Because of DCA I enjoyed ten wonderful, pain-free months during which I traveled, worked outdoors, got a tan, recovered my strength and my spirits. I have no regrets, not one.

    This pattern of temporary remission seems to be a typical experience for early adopters of DCA, although there have been a few reports of complete cures (prostate cancer, sarcoma). About 1,700 patients around the world are currently utilizing DCA as a cancer treatment, off-label. The most organized DCA treatment program is offered by the Medicor Clinic in Canada: http://www.medicorcancer.com/dca-reports.html

    Reading about DCA on the web one encounters venomous hostility to self-administered novel treatments for cancer, and to the use of DCA in particular; sadly, one such source has been quoted today on /. A more appropriate reference might be this op-ed in the New York Times, "Patents Over Patients" http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/01/opinion/01moss.html

    Whether it is more ethical to allow patients (and their doctors) to utilize an orphan drug off-label, or to tell them they can't utilize a molecule that may extend or even save their lives is a question for another discussion.

  40. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  41. By Neruos by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You're not cured if you have a relapse. Cancer NEVER goes away once you have it, there is no '100% biological clear success rate' treatment. Don't be fooled and don't fool yourself. Cancel can be cleaned up and forced into hiding, but you will always have a cancer cell somewhere, waiting.

  42. Patent by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It was hard to find funding for testing, because no pharmaceutical company wanted to bother researching a generic non-patentable drug. ...Duh

  43. Re:sfhxsfghdfjfd by fractoid · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I'd just like to thank Timothy for correctly saying "raises the question", rather than misusing "begs the question", in the summary.

    --
    Rampant carbon sequestration destroyed the Dinosaurs' tropical paradise. I'm here to help repair the damage.
  44. Another promising anti-cancer drug by GPS+Pilot · · Score: 1

    Another very promising anti-cancer drug, that's probably being overlooked because it can be manufactured very cheaply, is bromopyruvic acid. The preliminary research was done by Dr. Young Ko at Johns Hopkins.

    --
    That that is is that that that that is not is not.
  45. Writing prescriptions for profit does not happen by Neuticle · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Goddamnitsomuch, I hate this meme... You're either a troll or supremely ignorant.

    Doctors don't make ANY money from writing prescriptions. They never have, aside from the days of yore when doctors personally purchased the ingredients to mix up and sell*. Even then, it wasn't long before chemists/pharmacists took that over.

    They can bill for exams, tests and procedures, but in the USA, Canada, UK and (AFAIK) all of Europe, they don't get anything for writing a prescription. NOTHING. They don't even get to bill for the paper it is written on (which has security features and can be surprisingly expensive).

    There have been some rare (and I mean rare) cases of kickbacks from pharmaceutical companies to doctors. The only examples I know about are for chemotherapy drugs costing thousands of dollars per dose, e.g. an oncologist getting money for putting all his patients on drug A over competitor's drug B, which wasn't necessarily cheaper or more effective. The people involved were caught fairly quickly and punished severely.

    This only happened because the base cost of the drug was very high (many chemo drugs are wickedly hard to make), the markup is high (to recoup massive development costs), AND the market is small (Only oncologists treating a specific subset of cancer patients, possibly only a few thousand people). The profit of a handful of additional sales was enough to tempt people into breaking the law. The odds of this happening with mass market drugs are practically nil. No doctor is going to take that kind of personal risk unless there is significant money involved, and a company is not likely to spend that money and take a huge legal risk to drive sales of XYZ antibiotic up from 500,000/year to 500,100/year.

    Seriously, this meme needs to die. As for getting gifts and other non-money compensation, in the USA, drug companies aren't even giving out free pens and post-its anymore, and that wasn't done based on number of prescriptions written anyhow.

    *Snake-oil salesman were/are sometimes doctors, and thus could have "prescribed" something to the scam victim, but it's not a traditional doctor/patient relationship.

    --
    "Cheeze it!" - Bender
  46. Closed casket by ThatsNotPudding · · Score: 1

    But keeping the casket closed requires bolts or boom chains.

  47. It gets spent one way or the other by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    As with all non-profit "charities" that operate anywhere other than on a strictly local level the surpus of cash will find its way directly into the pockets of those heroic folk who give their time so cheaply to the cause of good.

    I am of course talking about the directors and the embezzeling accountants. God bless them for making it all possible!

  48. Two possibilities: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    1) Eliminate the corporate veil - the board of directors, the executives and managers are now "on the hook" for anything the company does under their supervision. They can be imprisoned, fine or even executed for ill deeds, negligence or wilful misconduct. Unfortunately, this would probably lead to scapegoating on a large scale - the fellow calling the shots will pass the buck.

    2) Eliminate the shareholder's "limited liability" - the shareholder is now not only "liable" to the extent of his paid-up capital, but for any other further liability that the company incurs - you'll suddenly have shareholders actually participating and holding the exec's feet to the fire over corporate policy and procedure. Unfortunately, that would destroy the "upper classes" grip over the proletariat and middle classes, so it's not going to happen either.

    Corporations already have enough money to have laws changed and bribe politicians and judges regularly. The only PRACTICAL step is to remove corporations influence over politics, by outlawing all campaign contributions from non-physical persons - that won't entirely eliminate the lobbying, but is at least real step that could be taken - sadly, Campaign Finance Reform bills need to be approved by those who least want them... so they usually emerge toothless or stillborn.

  49. Re:sfhxsfghdfjfd by strack · · Score: 1

    no one cares. either are the proper usage. and even if it wasnt, the only people who care would be people who like correcting other people on piffiling self-percieved grammatical errors, and no one wants to interact with those sorts of people. those sorts of people are brittle and boring and unchanging, unlike the english language.

  50. Re:Also, drug companies don't give a shit about yo by Lord+Ender · · Score: 1

    Just looking at the site briefly, it seems that most of those proposed symptoms could be attributed to ageing.

    But if there are questions about withdrawal symptoms from long-term drugs such as Propecia, I agree that there should be a study. Perhaps a "withdrawal" study should be mandatory for certain types of long-term drugs. Such a mandate would have to come from the FDA, as drug companies would be unlikely to undergo such expensive testing voluntarily.

    --
    A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
  51. What happens to all the money... by Hasai · · Score: 1

    "...donated to Canadian and other cancer societies, and especially the billions spent buying merchandise with little pink ribbons on it, if not to actual cancer research like this?"

    Easy; it keeps the permanent institution of 'cancer research' going. If anyone ever did the unthinkable and actually published a cure, well, then all those cancer researchers in their pretty labs and all those administrators in their posh offices would have to go find another line of work.

    They might even have to pay taxes.
    ];)

    --

    Regards;

    Hasai

  52. How dare anyone question where the money goes! by singingjim1 · · Score: 1

    But if you do raise a legitimate concern you're labeled a cynic. And friends wonder why I'm so cynical. Because when you ask good questions the answers usually drive a person right to cynicism. Big shocker. Just another example of the source of my cynicism. (sigh)

  53. Re:Cure? Healthier eating etc.? by Paul+Fernhout · · Score: 1

    Just for reference, it seems most cancer can be prevented (and sometimes cured) by a healthy diet (heavy on the vegetables, and perhaps including occasional fasting), enough vitamin D3 from sunlight, moderate exercise (helps keep the lymph system working among other things), avoiding pollution (like in water), some positive thinking and positive relationships, and the ususal lifestyle choices (like avoiding smoking).

    Joel Fuhrman is an MD who talks a lot about this sort of stuff:
        http://www.drfuhrman.com/
    """
    Contrary to popular belief, you don't have to live the rest of your life in pain or on medication.
        You can reverse disease, reduce high blood pressure, lose unwanted weight, lower your cholesterol levels, prevent heart disease and cancer, and improve your health - all without relying on drugs and fad diets. The importance of good nutrition is emphasized in Dr. Fuhrman's dietary program, Eat To Live.
        Reduce high blood pressure, reverse diabetes and dramatically lower cholesterol without drugs. Dr. Fuhrman offers advanced nutritional advice based on scientific research.
    """

    On the right amount of vitamin D:
        http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/treatment.shtml
    """
    We predict that treatment with physiological doses of vitamin D3 (between 4,000-10,000 IU/day from all sources, including sun, food and supplements) along with periodic monitoring of blood calcidiol and calcium levels will become routine. [Zittermann A. Vitamin D in preventive medicine: are we ignoring the evidence? Br J of Nutr. 2003;89:552-572. Holick M. Vitamin D: A Millennium Perspective. J Cell Biochem. 2003;88:296-307.] Research indicates it will help several vitamin D deficiency-associated diseases such as: autism, autoimmune illness, cancer, chronic pain, depression, diabetes, heart disease, hyperparathyroidism, hypertension, influenza, myopathy (neuromuscular disorders), and osteoporosis.
    """

    Bluezones is a community-wide effort that does similar things but at the community (not individual) level, as many things like having healthier menus in restaurants, building sidewalks, creating walking trails, making parks, and fostering a sense of community are more than any one individual can do alone.
        http://www.bluezones.com/makeover-about
    """
    The AARP/Blue Zones Vitality Project will focus on four areas that are crucial to health and longevity: Community Environment, Social Networks, Habitat and Individual Sense of Purpose.
    """

    Anyway, these cheap things -- sunlight, clean water, fresh air, more vegetables (and fruits, pulses like beans, and nuts and seeds), avoiding processed foods, walking and swimming, healthy relationshiips and attitudes, and not smoking etc. -- are not going to be promoted by most of our profit-oriented industrial system (even if many individuals have written books on these or sell some related products like good blenders for making green smoothies).

    Best wishes for staying well.

    --
    A 21st century issue: the irony of technologies of abundance in the hands of those still thinking in terms of scarcity.
  54. Re:sfhxsfghdfjfd by momerath2003 · · Score: 0, Redundant

    You and everyone else on Slashdot need to read the Language Log's post, "Begging the question": we have answers.

    --
    I had but a simple dream, to destroy all humans.
  55. i thought canadian healthcare was perfect? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    i mean socialism is supposed to cure all ills right? without the evil profit making companies the canadian healthcare system should be able to produce and test drugs all with no taxes. this is classic socialist bs complaining that drug companies won't spend the hundreds of millions of dollars to test a drug they can make no profit on. how many failed countries will it take for people to realize that when there is no opportunity to succeed there is no motivation to produce anything. it's like in office space when he says he works just hard enough to not get fired.

    1. Re:i thought canadian healthcare was perfect? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What a load of anti-socialist gibberish from someone who hasn't got a clue how health care, or politics either for that matter, works in Canada.

  56. Hope by Outsdr · · Score: 1

    My mother has a brain tumor. She has four months to live. Please hurry.

  57. Gates - picky donater by Firethorn · · Score: 1

    So, where's the Gates Foundation on this one? It seems a perfect avenue for them to do some good for humanity with only a small amount of money spent.

    Getting money from the Gates Foundation is in many ways MORE difficult than getting a grant out of the government. The foundation still has limited amounts of money to give, you have to convince the Gates that your cause is worthy and doable.

    With the limited, if large, amounts of money to give - there are plenty of worthy causes the Gates won't donate to because they're determined to donate in useful amounts.

    A lot of places you donate to, 50% or more of your donation money goes towards soliciting more donations. It's a vicious circle. Bill was determined to avoid that.

    So either the Gates have determined that this isn't quite worthy enough, that there's better projects to donate to, or they haven't applied to the Gates Foundation for money.

    --
    I don't read AC A human right
  58. Re:Cure? Healthier eating etc.? by Wyatt+Earp · · Score: 1

    Don't throw a holistic infomercial into this.

    "Contrary to popular belief, you don't have to live the rest of your life in pain or on medication."

    Here is a heads up, when you've had 14 major surgeries under general, tons of radiation and are missing three organs, you'l have pain.

    I do have to live the rest of my life on medication if I want to live normally, D, sunlight and eating well won't replace testosterone.

    Acute Lymphoblastic Leukemia can't be cured with a healthy diet and exercise, nor will that keep it from occurring and to think those things will have an effect is ignorance.

    Just for reference, ALL is caused by mutation, radiation and/or exposure to chemicals. Me, I have the Cryptic T(12;21) Cytogenetic translocation and possibly exposure to radiation in the form of Radon gas.

  59. Canadian Cancer Society's perspective on DCA by frank249 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The Canadian Cancer Society posted this in August 2008:

    "In early 2007, University of Alberta researchers published results of a study about DCA (dichloroacetate) stating that the agent showed promise in shrinking tumours in laboratory rats and human cell lines (human cells grown in a petri dish).

    While the results were hopeful, the research was in its earliest stages and had been done on animals only.

    The Society has concerns about Canadians with cancer seeking DCA before any clinical trials had been done on humans to test its effectiveness on cancer patients. DCA has been shown to have potentially dangerous side effects when used for non cancer-related conditions.

    The Canadian Cancer Society welcomed the news in September 2007 of Health Canada's approval for the first human clinical trial about DCA. This is an important first step in testing this agent for use in cancer patients. We look forward to the results of the trial, which is being led by researchers at the University of Alberta .

    Until these clinical trials are finished, we can't advise cancer patients in the general population to use the agent.

    Key issues that need to be determined through a clinical trial include:

    Is it effective in shrinking tumours?
    Can DCA be used safely in cancer patients at doses needed for effectiveness.
    Are there critical doses or methods of administration to achieve anti-cancer effects.
    The Canadian Cancer Society is currently funding hundreds of other encouraging cancer-fighting research projects."

    According to the Wikipedia article:

    In a 2005 audit by KPMG, the Canadian Cancer Society reported a revenue of $150,718,000 CAD. A breakdown of disbursements shows 28% of the Society's revenues going to fund research, 17% to provide support for people living with cancer, 7% to pay for information campaigns, 6% to fund prevention, and 2% to provide advocacy. Fundraising consumes 27% of the Society's revenue, and 6% is given over to management costs.

    --

    Today's vices may be tomorrow's virtues.

  60. Re:Cure? Healthier eating etc.? by Paul+Fernhout · · Score: 1

    Within limits, the human body can repair itself, and even repair DNA damage to some extent. Sorry to hear you have been exposed to environmental mutagens like excessive radon; that would certainly challenge anyone's body, on top of genetic issues. So, while certainly what happens to people in life is in good part chance, for many people with cancer (not saying yours), either they exceeded the body's ability to repair itself by exposure to mutagens, or the body's capacity to repair itself was diminished somehow by lack of vital nutrients or other issues (including, as you suggest, underlying genetic issues from conception). For example, all people are continually having cells go rogue but normally the immune system destroys such cells before they can proliferate, but it takes good nutrition including vitamin D for the immune system to do that -- which is why the dermatological profession may have caused 30 internal cancers for every external skin cancer they prevented by the advice to fear the sun without suggesting adequate vitamin D replacement).

    By the way, because you mentioned a specific cancer, Acute Lymphoblastic Leukemia, a quick Google on that and diet produces:
    "Maternal Diet and Acute Lymphoblastic Leukemia in Young Children"
    http://cebp.aacrjournals.org/content/14/8/1935.abstract
    """
    Because leukemia clone-specific chromosomal abnormalities are present at birth in children who later develop leukemia, it has been hypothesized that maternal factors, including nutrition during pregnancy, might affect the risk of acute lymphoblastic leukemia (ALL) among young children. We have evaluated this hypothesis in a nationwide case-control study of ALL among children ages 12 to 59 months in Greece. Children (n = 131) with ALL were gender and age matched to control children (n = 131) hospitalized for minor conditions between 1999 and 2003. The mothers of the children were interviewed in person by trained interviewers who used an extensive food frequency questionnaire addressing diet during the index pregnancy. The analysis was done by modeling the data through conditional logistic regression, also controlling for total energy intake and possible confounding factors. Odds ratios (OR) and 95% confidence intervals (95% CI) were expressed per quintile increase of maternal intake during pregnancy of the specified food group. The risk of ALL in the offspring was lower with increased maternal intake of fruits (OR, 0.72; 95% CI, 0.57-0.91), vegetables (OR, 0.76; 95% CI, 0.60-0.95), and fish and seafood (OR, 0.72; 95% CI, 0.59-0.89) and higher with increased maternal intake of sugars and syrups (OR, 1.32; 95% CI, 1.05-1.67) and meat and meat products (OR, 1.25; 95% CI, 1.00-1.57). Children of women who tend to consume during their pregnancies what is currently considered to be a healthy diet maybe at lower risk of ALL.
    """

    So, clearly this is suggestive of a dietary link to some extent.

    If you have had 14 surgeries and lots of radiation, obviously the medical system has failed you in the sense of helping you treat the underlying issues causing cancers to recur. They may have treated the symptoms, but what about addressing the underlying causes, whatever they are? Sure you may need some forms of medication given everything you said, but still, why not try to get the rest of your body to work as well as it can and have the most energy you can have?

    I have no connection with Dr. Joel Fuhrman other than buying a few of his books and a DVD and liking what I've seen and trying to put his advice into practice in my own family (and he says little that many others have not said for decades, although he synthesizes it well). To me, he makes a lot of sense. Even now, you might find your health may benefit from following his dietary advice (after discussion with your doctors); he is a bona-fide MD; you might even want to just give him a call if he does consultations (and if your insurance covers it and ca

    --
    A 21st century issue: the irony of technologies of abundance in the hands of those still thinking in terms of scarcity.
  61. Re:Cure? Healthier eating etc.? by Wyatt+Earp · · Score: 1

    No, actually the 14 surgeries and radiation is what's saved my life and fixed what's gone on.

    Without the chemo and radiation, with ALL in 1980, I would have lived 2-9 months. When I relapsed my prognosis was 4-12 months.

    Instead I've lived 10802 days.

    ALL free since 1982, of the NIH/Mayo cohort I was tracked with, n=8351, there is one alive. Me.

  62. Re:Incentives (Phage Therapy) by Paul+Fernhout · · Score: 1

    "Phage Therapy: Where Communism Succeeded and Capitalism Failed"
      http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL9910/S00096.htm
    """
    While there are some genuine reasons why phage treatments of bacterial diseases were overlooked in the 1930s and 1940s, the failure to develop a western research program into bacteriophage treatment in the 1980s and 1990s represents an inexcusable failure of western capitalism. By the 1980s, there could be no denial that antibiotic resistance was going to be a major problem in (if not before) the twenty-first century. Yet, we just didn't want to know about what will probably turn out to be the most important medical breakthrough in the twentieth century; a breakthrough made in communist Georgia, in Stalin's Soviet Union.
        It is embarrassing when western science is out-trumped, especially by the "communists". Usually, when out-trumped, we don't tell anyone. That's what happened here. Not only did we not have the nous to start a western programme in bacteriophage research; we looked the other way when the files of phials threatened to be destroyed following the breakup of the Soviet Union, and during the little reported civil war that engulfed Georgia a few years ago. So much for the knowledge economies of the west. How can such valuable knowledge be so cheap?
        It's not too late for western medicine to enter the post-antibiotic bacteriophage era. Our grandchildren will hardly thank us if we persevere with our corporate-profit-motivated conservatism.
        The Soviets were able, eventually, to admit that they were wrong to follow Lysenko. Will we in the west be equally able to admit that we were wrong to put all our medical eggs into the one antibiotic basket, in the process ignoring the most basic tenets of the theory of evolution?
    """

    So, with this as an example, what else has capitalism ignored as it relates to cancer?
    Nutrition?
        http://www.drfuhrman.com/
    Vitamin D?
        http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/treatment.shtml
    Fasting?
        http://www.soilandhealth.org/02/0201hyglibcat/shelton.bio.bidwell.htm
        http://www.healingcancernaturally.com/fasting-cure-for-health.html
       

    --
    A 21st century issue: the irony of technologies of abundance in the hands of those still thinking in terms of scarcity.
  63. Firstly by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Firstly, this is exactly the same problem that occurred in Australia. Two doctors discovering bacteria in the stomach, swimming around in all that acid, a place where it was believed no bacteria could live, and they discovered that a cheap antibiotic and a bit of lithium could safely kill them. No more stomach cancer, no more stomach ulcers. Finally a solution. And for the drug companies, no profit. So no funding for research. The cheap antibiotic was already generic. The privately fund raised, and now the world has a solution to stomach cancer and stomach ulcers. Here, a fund raising effort led by a man who's sister suffered and died of brain cancer (I think its called neural blastoma) raised about $360,000 for a short study of 6 patients. That's $60,000 per patient. Still some little part of the currently unemployed me still wants to donate a few bucks directly to this cause. It can't be worse that donating for a cure for MS (the drug companies are looking for a drug for that too, even though Paulo Zamboni's treatment is offering excellent relief to many many people, yet governments and big science (pharma) are unwilling to accept the treatment because its 'untested', yet there is no testing going on. Why? Because 95% of all funding to MS gets diverted to something else, and MS funding is massive. Let people die if you have to, but keep big Pharma shareholders happy.

  64. Re:sfhxsfghdfjfd by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

    "+1, Doesn't Beg The Question"?

  65. Re:Cheap Dancer Drug by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    (And I'm aware that ranting at an AC also puts me in running for that failure, but I'm comfortable with that)

    Good, because you're right, you lose.