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SpaceX's Falcon 9 Appears As UFO In Australia

RobHart writes "ABC (the Australian Broadcasting Commission) has reported extensively on a bright spiraling light that was seen in Eastern Australia just before dawn. It has just broadcast a report from an Australian astronomer who has suggested that the light was probably the successful Falcon 9 launch, which would have been over Australia at that time on its launch trajectory." Update: 06/05 22:20 GMT by T : Setting aside the literal exhaust fumes, reader FleaPlus says, It's "interesting to look at the reactions from those in Congress who control the purse-strings for NASA (one of SpaceX's biggest customers). The successful launch was congratulated by Sen. Bill Nelson (D-FL and former astronaut) and Rep. Suzanne Kosmas (D-FL), both praised and criticized by Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchison (R-TX) due to the successful launch being a year later than previously predicted, and blasted by Sen. Richard Shelby (R-AL) for merely replicating what 'NASA accomplished in 1964,' who added that the company's success 'must not be confused with progress for our nation's human spaceflight program.'"

143 comments

  1. Oh, those Falcon UFOs! by The+Bad+Astronomer · · Score: 5, Informative

    FWIW, I have a substantial blog post with details, including a rant against the ABC story. :) This was definitely the Falcon 9 second stage, despite the UFO guy's protestations: the timing, position, and appearance all match.

    --
    *** Phil Plait, aka The Bad Astronomer http://www.badastronomy.com
    1. Re:Oh, those Falcon UFOs! by Adambomb · · Score: 4, Funny

      FWIW, I have a substantial blog post with details, including a rant against the ABC story. :) This was definitely the Falcon 9 second stage, despite the UFO guy's protestations: the timing, position, and appearance all match.

      Oh sure, says the Bad Astronomer!

      --
      Ice Cream has no bones.
    2. Re:Oh, those Falcon UFOs! by ColdWetDog · · Score: 3, Funny

      So despite the nonsense you'll hear from the news sites and the bulletin boards that will claim this is some sort of transdimensional stargate warp ...

      Look, if it's all the same to you, I'll take the transdimensional stargate warp over a measly chemical rocket any day.

      But thanks for playing.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    3. Re:Oh, those Falcon UFOs! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh sure, says the Bad Astronomer!

      Better him than BadAstrologyGuy.

    4. Re:Oh, those Falcon UFOs! by morgan_greywolf · · Score: 1

      Maybe he means bad in this sense.

    5. Re:Oh, those Falcon UFOs! by PieSquared · · Score: 2, Funny

      Oh yea, likely story. Just because there was something that looks like the UFO in the same place at the same time doesn't mean that it was the same thing.

      Far more likely is that the Falcon 9 second stage hit an alien spacecraft, causing it (the alien spacecraft) to spin and spew gas!

      --
      Does a line appended to your comment give your post meaning in and of itself, or only in relation to those without?
    6. Re:Oh, those Falcon UFOs! by davester666 · · Score: 1

      Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
      -- Arthur C Clarke's Third Law

      Maybe them there rockets are too newfangled for those people down under...

      --
      Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
    7. Re:Oh, those Falcon UFOs! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      If it was the Falcon 9 then it would be identified, not unidentified. As no space agency, including NASA, have identified it then nothing on your blog will change the fact that it is a UFO and will remain that way until it is identified. That doesn't mean whatever it was contains little green men or is any more interesting than a wet fart in a heavy wind.

    8. Re:Oh, those Falcon UFOs! by morgajel · · Score: 1

      Slashdot is at the top of my RSS reader in the tech folder, BA is after it in the science folder- I saw this article and thought to myself, "Huh, I wonder what Phil is gonna say-" then BAM, first comment on slashdot.

      Nice.

      --
      Looking for Book Reviews? Check out Literary Escapism.
  2. Fools! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Everyone who watched knows the Falcon 9 was launched in the upwards direction, not the downwards direction needed to reach Australia.

    Also, Australian UFOs spiral in the opposite direction to The Vistors who arrive in the northern hemisphere.

    1. Re:Fools! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I LOL'd. XD

  3. DST by LBArrettAnderson · · Score: 2, Informative

    A doubter quoted in the article says "Firstly, the time of the launch was 18.45 GMT, which translates to 4.45am EST, the duration of the flight was 9 minutes 38 seconds - this is a full hour before the reported sightings."
     
    Did he forget that we're on DST right now? He should have looked up the EDT time, not EST.

    1. Re:DST by vsage3 · · Score: 4, Informative

      Presumably "EST" refers to Australian east coast time and not American EDT given it was 2:45pm EDT when the launch occurred.

    2. Re:DST by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      (and I know that he'd be ok as long as he's consistent, but my guess is that he accidentally used EST for one and EDT for the other).

    3. Re:DST by LBArrettAnderson · · Score: 1

      Oh... I assumed he was talking about the time when it took off in Florida (I didn't follow it THAT closely, so I wasn't sure if it took off really early or later in the day), although I guess I could have figured it out based on the conversion to GMT.

    4. Re:DST by LBArrettAnderson · · Score: 1

      Even so, has anyone checked his work? It's always easy to get off by an hour when there's DST involved.

    5. Re:DST by vsage3 · · Score: 1

      There's no work to check. His GMT time is correct, and I'm guessing he knows his own country's time zone offsets from GMT.

    6. Re:DST by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      except that he forgot rockets take time, like an hour, to fly halfway around the planet.

    7. Re:DST by LBArrettAnderson · · Score: 1

      Well, I did it anyway :)

      He seems to be right according to http://wwp.greenwichmeantime.com/time-zone/time-zones.htm (I assume that they're on standard time, being on the southern hemisphere and all).

      Was the whole flight just under 10 minutes? or did that only account for how long it was being propelled (did it fall for a while?) Or was it actually just something entirely different?

    8. Re:DST by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      it was the 2nd stage deorbiting over australia. took roughly an hour to reach.
        flight time was 10 minutes to burnout.

    9. Re:DST by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He's right; it just takes about an hour for a rocket launched in Florida to make it over Australia.

    10. Re:DST by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 4, Informative

      Was the whole flight just under 10 minutes

      No, that was boost time.

      or did that only account for how long it was being propelled (did it fall for a while?)

      It will be falling for the next year or so, until the orbit finally decays.

      --

      "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
    11. Re:DST by MichaelSmith · · Score: 1

      Did he forget that we're on DST right now? He should have looked up the EDT time, not EST.

      We're not on Daylight Savings Time now.

    12. Re:DST by MichaelSmith · · Score: 1

      In Melbourne:

      date && date -u
      Sun Jun 6 09:12:56 EST 2010
      Sat Jun 5 23:12:56 UTC 2010

      The east coast of AU is at GMT+10 right now.

    13. Re:DST by LBArrettAnderson · · Score: 1

      I am. If you read the thread you'll realize that I (mistakenly) thought he was talking about the American EDT (in the article they should have used AEST to be more specific).

    14. Re:DST by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "He seems to be right according to"

      He's not.

      "(I assume that they're on standard time, being on the southern hemisphere and all)"

      He wasn't. He was on AEDT/EADT (UTC+11), atm only Queensland is on AEST/EAST (UTC+10)

      However, much of NSW / Vic insist on calling +11 as EAST/AEST, they completely miss that when on daylight saving time they are no longer on AEST, and given the other fundamental problems with the claims by the "UFO investigator", I'd suggest he's simply screwed up the times.

  4. So ..... by unity100 · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    all the bright spiraling lights that were seen over norway, canada, and 4 corners of the world were falcon 9 launches ? what, are these guys using a ship for launches and, for some godforsaken reason, needing to launch from arctic circle, just north of norway, then to go to the other corner of the world, australia, and to launch from there ? give me an effin break.

    1. Re:So ..... by Yvanhoe · · Score: 2, Informative

      In Norway I believe Russia recognized it was a failed missile test.

      --
      The Wise adapts himself to the world. The Fool adapts the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the Fool.
    2. Re:So ..... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      nope. those were russian missiles/aurora borealis/HAARP shots/alien spacecraft using the pan arctic trans-dimensional jumpgate. take your pick.

    3. Re:So ..... by unity100 · · Score: 1

      so, the same spiral light is created by a russian failed missile test, falcon 9, and what was the one that created the one in canada ?

    4. Re:So ..... by unity100 · · Score: 1

      and the one in canada ? what was that ? why they all looked the same ? all russians ?

    5. Re:So ..... by dave420 · · Score: 1

      Not this shite again. Any object travelling in space, ejecting something not exactly from its centre of gravity will start to spiral. As space is a near-vacuum, the ejecta will continue, and create a spiral. Get a fucking grip - it's insanity like yours that makes the internet look retarded.

    6. Re:So ..... by unity100 · · Score: 1

      ooooooooooook.

      so then, why these spirals started coming up recently despite we have been launching rockets, satellites, space shuttles, and even suborbital planes for around 58 years ?

    7. Re:So ..... by dave420 · · Score: 1

      New types of propellant, new types of engines, new designs of rocket design, more frequent launches, sheer coincidence - you name it. Leaping to some retarded conclusion that it's some nefarious or secretive conspiracy is, well, retarded. Very retarded. It makes Carl Sagan cry, and makes you look like a nut job.

    8. Re:So ..... by unity100 · · Score: 1

      oooh yeaaah. new types of propellant. what ? nuclear fission ? or, gravity waves ? or, did they put fireworks material into the propellant to make a show ?

      being a witless idiot by trying to rationalize things that are yet NOT known and yet not even researched, without getting off your armchair makes one look even more stupider than the one who propagates a conspiracy theory. not that i did propagate one. what i said was that we did NOT know what was that, and the shitty 'swamp gas' like cold war era sounding explanations did not fit into anything.

      in another note, i'd rather be a nut job than a moron who believes any argument/explanation that people fire out without even leaving their chairs to do research, or being one of those who do fire them. research, is an integral part of knowledge, and where there is no research, there can be no knowledge. only assumptions, and uptightness.

    9. Re:So ..... by Muad'Dave · · Score: 1

      New types of propellant, new types of engines, new designs of rocket design, more frequent launches...

      You left out the real reason - new procedures to prevent space junk from exploding boosters and fuel tanks - they now routinely dump the remaining fuel overboard after the boost phase is complete, making the spirals.

      --
      Tiller's Rule: Never use a word in written form that you've only heard and never read. You will end up looking foolish.
    10. Re:So ..... by unity100 · · Score: 1

      new procedures ? russian rocket uses the same procedures too ? despite being an older design ? despite russians never needing to stick to any 'procedure' that the west or east brings up, neither in international rules nor technology ? so they suddenly felt the need to be environmentalists in regard to space junk, just because some people need to use it as an argument to explain a recent phenomenon without having to leave their armchairs ...

    11. Re:So ..... by Muad'Dave · · Score: 1

      Ass.

      Perhaps you'll believe Elon Musk himself:

      "I heard people in Australia thought UFOs were visiting :)," SpaceX's millionaire founder Elon Musk told SPACE.com in an e-mail. "The venting of propellants, which is done to ensure that an overpressure event doesn't produce orbital debris, created a temporary halo caught the sun at just the right angle for a great view from Australia. I thought the pictures looked really cool."

      Or perhaps let me google it for you.

      --
      Tiller's Rule: Never use a word in written form that you've only heard and never read. You will end up looking foolish.
    12. Re:So ..... by unity100 · · Score: 1

      ok was he in norway too when the spiral happened there ? is he russian ? was he in canada too, when NO rocket was there to be used as an explanation ?

    13. Re:So ..... by Muad'Dave · · Score: 1

      I guess you missed the coverage and the fact that Russia Admitted it was a failed missile test?

      Admit it, you're just a crackpot.

      --
      Tiller's Rule: Never use a word in written form that you've only heard and never read. You will end up looking foolish.
    14. Re:So ..... by unity100 · · Score: 1

      yes. then it was either a failed missile test in canada too, or, spacex or whatever was there. is it ?

  5. RE:Doug Moffett by Low+Ranked+Craig · · Score: 1

    You keep using these words. I don't think they mean what you think they mean.

    from UFO Research NSW Oh. That explains it...

    --
    I still cannot find the droids I am looking for...
  6. Congress is happy by Presto+Vivace · · Score: 2, Informative
    1. Re:Congress is happy by hedwards · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I think it's oddly ironic and evidence of how off base Republicans are with science that they can decry this as being unimpressive. Normally they'd be touting this as evidence that NASA needs to be canceled so that the private sector can do it without federal funds.

      Because ultimately this is a big deal, private businesses haven't been able to do this sort of thing nor really was the US government able to without a massive amount of money.

    2. Re:Congress is happy by caseih · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Gotta love the quotes from the wonderfully progressive Republican party folks including this gem from Sen. Richard Shelby (R-AL): "[Shelby congratulated SpaceX on what] 'NASA accomplished in 1964,' [and] added that the company's success 'must not be confused with progress for our nation's human spaceflight."

      That's really rich seeing that NASA can't even do what SpaceX has done. Welcome back to 1964, maybe, we SpaceX is now years ahead of the now hopefully defunct Aries I program, despite NASA's extensive experience, which SpaceX is benefiting from. Even more ironic that a Republican senator is unhappy that private enterprise is doing something that a government agency is apparently unable to do. Oh how the Republican party has fallen. They're now caught by their own positions. I mean are they for private enterprise and the free market or not?

    3. Re:Congress is happy by Kjella · · Score: 1

      I mean are they for private enterprise and the free market or not?

      They're politicians. They don't even get a passing grade in remedial politics if they can't dodge such obvious attempts at consistency and accountability.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    4. Re:Congress is happy by darjen · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The Republican party never has been for free markets and never will be. Every single time they win, government still expands by leaps and bounds. It is mostly false rhetoric by leftists trying to prove that free markets don't work. Case in point is the quote from this fine senatorial idiot.

    5. Re:Congress is happy by confused+one · · Score: 5, Informative
      I believe Keith Cowing from http://nasawatch.com/ put it best when he commented on Senator Hutchison and then Senator Shelby's statements:

      Keith's note: This is hilarious. Ares 1-X was a suborbital mission with a fake second stage, a first stage motor different than the final one, and used borrowed avionics. Falcon 9 flew an operational vehicle first time out of the hanagr and put a payload into orbit at a small fraction of the cost that an Ares would require. Falcon 9 has a better chance of closing the gap than Ares 1 will. Apparently the good senator (her staff that is) are utterly unaware of the fact that Ares 1 will not achieve any of its milestones until after Falcon 9 has already done so. Yet we never hear anything from her about that, do we?

      As for Sen Shelby's comments, It would seem that SpaceX is better equipped to do what "NASA accomplished in 1964" than the NASA of 2010 can accomplish - and do so faster - and more cheaply. Ares 1 would cost much more and be ready later than Falcon 9.

    6. Re:Congress is happy by inf4mia · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Timothy is such a luddite for turning this into a Red vs. Blue thing. Rep. Suzanne Kosmas (D-FL) also down played SpaceX's accomplishment. All of the politicians downplaying the achievement are just lamely trying to protect their area's piece of NASA's salted pork.

      Rep. Kosmas: "The successful test launch of SpaceX's Falcon 9 rocket is a significant step in the development of the commercial space industry. There is no doubt that commercial spaceflight will play an important role in the future of our efforts in space, and I believe private companies can bring new job opportunities for the Space Coast's highly skilled workforce. But we must both support the emerging commercial space industry and ensure a robust, NASA-led human spaceflight program in order to maintain our international leadership in space and keep our economy strong. I will continue fighting at every opportunity to minimize the human spaceflight gap, protect jobs, and ensure a bright future for the Space Coast."
      http://cosmiclog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2010/06/04/4465072-spacex-fans-and-foes-speak-out

    7. Re:Congress is happy by sumdumass · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Ah,, don't inject truth, reason, and sanity into this. Can't we just bash one party or the other for the hell of it and leave false impressions to the masses? I mean how are we supposed to get our guy elected if we can't get everyone else to believe the fallacious positions we put the opposition in.

      I bet you don't like puppies. Nobody listen to this guy, he doesn't like puppies, or kittens either.

    8. Re:Congress is happy by garyisabusyguy · · Score: 1

      I am not surprised that the Republican from Alabama is against SpaceX, seeing how Huntsville is the home of Morton-Thiokol, a major contractor for the solid rocket boosters that were to be used on the canceled program.

      Aside from the fact that Senators never notice federal government waste when the money is being spent in their own state, the is very much a red-blue issue since Republicans are currently looking for anything to call a fail on the current administration

      --
      Wherever You Go, There You Are
    9. Re:Congress is happy by DaveV1.0 · · Score: 1

      Of course "SpaceX is now years ahead" of the Constellation program. SpaceX started years before the Aries program, used 30 year old technology, and has a much simpler goal: LEO and GEO. They fucking better be years ahead, specially as the Aries program has lost its funding.

      I guess you forgot that the Constellation system was supposed to take us back to Luna and then on to Mars and not just the ISS which is the primary target of the Falcon 9 system.

      Comparing the Constellation system to the Falcon system is like comparing an over the road semi-articulated tractor trailer to a day-cab straight truck.

      --
      There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
    10. Re:Congress is happy by Captain+Nitpick · · Score: 5, Informative

      SpaceX started years before the Aries program, used 30 year old technology

      I guess you forgot that the Constellation system was supposed to take us back to Luna and then on to Mars and not just the ISS which is the primary target of the Falcon 9 system.

      You are misinformed. The Ares I rocket is just a LEO launcher. It is an extended space shuttle solid rocket booster with an upper stage powered by a single Saturn V motor. The technology in it dates to the mid-1970s or even earlier.

      The Ares V is a heavy-lift booster that outclasses anything built. Or it would if they'd actually try building one. It is a STS External Tank with five motors off the Delta IV under it and two STS SRBs attached to it. The upper stage is powered by the same Saturn V derivative motor used on the Ares I.

      Both programs started development circa 2005 (SpaceX was only founded in 2002). SpaceX has delivered a working launch vehicle. NASA has launched what was literally a slightly modified SRB out of the Space Shuttle inventory as the Ares I-X, and is unlikely to launch the real thing until 2017. The Ares V hasn't even begun to leave the drawing board.

      SpaceX has a working satellite launcher that can be made man-rated. The Constellation program has nothing.

      --
      But then again, I could be wrong.
    11. Re:Congress is happy by goodmanj · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Normally I'm all for Republican-bashing, but in this case I think it goes to something more primal than Republican luddism.

      Whether a congressman approves or disapproves of Space-X has nothing to do with his/her party, beliefs, or political position, and everything to do with, "Do I have a NASA manned spaceflight center in my district?"

      Space-X has gotten jeers from Florida, Alabama, and Texas; cheers from just about everywhere else. At least Florida and Texas have a role to play in a privatized spaceflight arena. Alabama, on the other hand, is watching the Marshall Space Flight Center evaporate like a puddle of liquid oxygen, and is going to fight like hell to keep ol' Werner von Braun's playground alive.

    12. Re:Congress is happy by goodmanj · · Score: 3, Funny

      Comparing the Constellation system to the Falcon system is like comparing an over the road semi-articulated tractor trailer to a day-cab straight truck.

      Hooray, a truck analogy. Lemme fix that for you. It's like comparing a fusion-powered antigravity freighter to a day-cab straight truck. The antigravity freighter is much more impressive, but the straight truck actually exists.

    13. Re:Congress is happy by avtchillsboro · · Score: 0, Troll

      Umm... how about some equal time for Democrats??
      Now that 'The One' has shut down the Shuttle & de-funded the Ares Program because he is against spending precious tax dollars on wasteful activities (heh)
      any bets on how soon the liberal do-gooders will want to impose confiscatory new taxes on the nascent private space industry's "windfall" profits?

    14. Re:Congress is happy by somenickname · · Score: 1

      Once the Stargate was found and the Asgard gave us all their tech, these sorts of events are no longer impressive.

    15. Re:Congress is happy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except space-x is in texas too, so I don't really get the jeers from here. Presumably they offer fewer jobs because they are more efficient.

    16. Re:Congress is happy by DaveV1.0 · · Score: 1

      Or it would if they'd actually try building one.

      They would have except for Obama de-funding the program. I guess you forgot about that.

      Let's see:

      SpaceX has delivered a 1960s era liquid fuel rocket designed for LEO. NASA has delivered a 1970s era test vehicle as part of a program to develop a 2010s era launch system.

      SpaceX has an almost working satellite launch vehicle. NASA was developing a system for sending people to Luna and Mars.

      Yeah, SpaceX has gotten very far using NASA's old technology.

      --
      There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
    17. Re:Congress is happy by DaveV1.0 · · Score: 1

      And, the only reason it does not exist is because of Obama.

      --
      There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
    18. Re:Congress is happy by Gravatron · · Score: 1

      Nasa's system was far over budget, far behind schedule, and no making up any sort of ground. 9 billion and all they had was a SRB. They were years away from orbit, and decades from the moon.

      Meanwhile, for a fraction of the cost, Space X put a test vehicle in orbit. They will be able to put a man in orbit in a few years time. Ares can't say the same.

      Ares is and always will be a vehicle designed primarily to save jobs, not to preform space exploration.

    19. Re:Congress is happy by Gravatron · · Score: 1

      It was still many years away from achieving what space X did this week. Killing it was a great idea.

    20. Re:Congress is happy by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      It is mostly false rhetoric by leftists trying to prove that free markets don't work.

      Two points: Free markets don't exist, and what do you mean by "work"? The existing market conditions are working fine if the goal is to make the rich richer.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    21. Re:Congress is happy by BigLonn · · Score: 2, Insightful

      This is bigger than you realize, yes nasa did it in 1964 in what is essentially a lewis & clark type exploration project, the mercury / gemini / apollo series of flights. This is different than 1964 its akin to the opening up of the railway systems in the east that eventually lead to the transcontinental railway. Spacex is just the first company to get there under their own steam. Yes they have government contract, but they developed their own medium lift vehicle powerful enough to launch a man rated space craft into orbit. that is the Dragon space capsule. They did it all in house at a fraction of the cost of the defunct Aries & constellation projects. The dragon now needs to go through a full vetting process to get it man rated but even then it will take 3 years, that will still beat the first full up test flight of the Aries by 3 years[nasa's best guess]. The best part of this is it was done privately for a fraction of what the public sectors failed attempts cost. The Republicans, well, they are just upset the Democrats killed Aries thats why they are kvetching on this, I say if Elon wants to win this hands down, press to get the dragon man rated in 18 months. As there are plans to get the Constellation project restarted already afoot

    22. Re:Congress is happy by chrb · · Score: 1

      Whether a congressman approves or disapproves of Space-X has nothing to do with his/her party, beliefs, or political position, and everything to do with, "Do I have a NASA manned spaceflight center in my district?"

      The Republican line is that private industry is always better than government organisations. They are happy to see the people's money being given to Lockheed-Martin, Haliburton, Boeing etc. in exchange for regular flight R&D. But when Obama suggests that the provision of space flight R&D should move from a government organisation towards private corporations, then some Republicans start proclaiming that government run organisations achieve better results than private industry. This is obviously a contradiction to their regular line, and the "Do I have a NASA manned spaceflight center in my district?" question points out the hypocrisy of this position. The Democrat line is less hypocritical, as they have never stated that private industry is always better than government organisations, and hence there is no contradiction in their position.

    23. Re:Congress is happy by Captain+Nitpick · · Score: 1

      They would have except for Obama de-funding the program. I guess you forgot about that.

      You're kidding, right?

      Obama has proposed removing funding for the Constellation Program in the 2011 budget. The budget cuts haven't taken effect and are still being argued over. The reason NASA hasn't built them is that NASA is years behind schedule.

      Let's see:

      SpaceX has delivered a 1960s era liquid fuel rocket designed for LEO. NASA has delivered a 1970s era test vehicle as part of a program to develop a 2010s era launch system.

      SpaceX has an almost working satellite launch vehicle. NASA was developing a system for sending people to Luna and Mars.

      In five-ish years, SpaceX designed, built, and flew a prototype two-stage rocket. In five-ish years, NASA put a guidance system on an existing STS SRB, and launched a fake second stage.

      And you are still confusing two separate launchers. The Ares I is a LEO launch vehicle, an orbital taxi. It can no more get one to the Moon than the Falcon 9. It can ferry people to a lunar transfer vehicle, but so could the Falcon 9.

      Yeah, SpaceX has gotten very far using NASA's old technology.

      NASA can't get anywhere using NASA's old technology, so SpaceX is still ahead on that score.

      --
      But then again, I could be wrong.
    24. Re:Congress is happy by goodmanj · · Score: 1

      My point is that in either party, regional interest trumps political positions. You can call it hypocrisy if you like, but you should never be surprised when politicians behave this way.

      On the Democrat side, take for example Ted Kennedy. Proponent of alternative energy, opponent of expanded oil drilling, but when they wanted to build a wind farm in *his* back yard, he fought it tooth and nail until the day he died.

    25. Re:Congress is happy by cheesybagel · · Score: 1

      Lockheed Martin assembles Atlas rockets at Decatur, Alabama. But hey, who cares uh? Better to fund a rocket proposed by ATK - a company from Utah.

    26. Re:Congress is happy by Teancum · · Score: 2, Insightful

      What is interesting is when I hit Republican candidates for office on private commercial spaceflight.... they are all for it until the word "Constellation" comes up and then try to defend that program as if ATK has completely financed the entire development for that project out of their own pocket.

      Sometimes I don't really know what is going on, and it seems as though politicians will simply bend in the wind if you start to blow back. We'll see, I guess.

      Support for the Constellation program won't survive the light of day when people really start to realize what it is and what it is doing to NASA. Once it is built, if it is ever built, the first act of the next President of the USA will be to cancel it. Right now we just have to see if Obama has the backbone to get it canceled for good before another dozen billion dollars are spent on that black hole.

    27. Re:Congress is happy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ignore this post everyone. This guys does not know what he's talking about.

    28. Re:Congress is happy by tibit · · Score: 1

      Morton-Thiokol, the same people who, through their negligence (can't call it any different), killed one shuttle crew? Yeah, a great name to associate yourself with, Republican from Alabama.

      --
      A successful API design takes a mixture of software design and pedagogy.
    29. Re:Congress is happy by TheOrquithVagrant · · Score: 1

      No. The reason it does not exist is because the Ares-I kept running into delays and cost overruns, as well as performance issues that continually forced them to remove capabilites for Orion. The reason it _shouldn't_ exist is that it's a _terrible_ program that, had it been allowed to continue, would quite probably have killed NASA and never gotten us out of LEO anyway. Even the Ares-I would not have been operational during Obama's presidency, even presuming he stays in office until 2016.
      I used to be a fan of Constellation when all I knew was the current NASA PR. After learning just what an absolute mess the program really was, and the severe issues with the Ares-I, I've changed my mind. While the Ares-I would probably be possible to finish, the expected cost of development is $35 billion dollars, and not before 2017. And at the end of all that time and money, you end up with a rocket that takes less mass to LEO than the Falcon 9 Heavy will - and the F9H will have cost roughly as much to fully develop from scratch as the Ares-I's expected yearly recurring operating cost.
      It is also worth pointing out that the budget that cancels Constellation is NOT in effect yet, and won't be until next year; congress still has to approve it. Obama has absolutely nothing to do with the current delays and failings of the Constellation program - the program itself, and the previous NASA administrator, bear all the blame for that.

  7. Skylab by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Oz has every right to be worried when pieces of spacecraft come flying over them.

    1. Re:Skylab by MichaelSmith · · Score: 4, Funny

      Oz has every right to be worried when pieces of spacecraft come flying over them.

      Eventually we will put all the pieces together and have our own space program.

    2. Re:Skylab by cheesybagel · · Score: 1

      Actually Australia would be a good place to put a space port. Many rockets were launched from Woomera a couple of decades ago. I also remember some corporation wanted to launch Russian rockets from Christmas Island. The problem is most of the places which actually manufacture launchers are very far away from Australia...

    3. Re:Skylab by MichaelSmith · · Score: 1

      Actually Australia would be a good place to put a space port. Many rockets were launched from Woomera a couple of decades ago. I also remember some corporation wanted to launch Russian rockets from Christmas Island. The problem is most of the places which actually manufacture launchers are very far away from Australia...

      Woomera is too far south for equatorial launches. There was a proposal for a spaceport on Cape York but in truth it is going to lose out to places right on the equator.

      Also if you launch east from woomera you cross the east coast, where is where most of the population lives. Its a bad architecture from the word go.

      If orbital commerce really takes off the ideal place would be the east side of Johor Bahru. Unless Singapore beats them to it of course.

  8. Don't believe him. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    He gets paid to lie to us.
    In fact, the bright light (pink), was a spaceship full of gay niggers from planet anus.

  9. Second Stage Burn over australia by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    SpaceX has been kinda quiet about it... But the second stage did try to do another burn over Australia to make escape velocity. The burn didn't go as planned, probably due to the fact of the uncontrolled spiraling of the first burn. They were targeting escape velocity, but it only burned for about 8 seconds. After scrambling to keep a couple of ground stations up to track it, they found it tumbling still in about the same orbit as the first burn. As usual Elon put a good spin on it saying they just wanted to do a quick burn to slightly change the orbit. When you don't release what your targeting to the public before hand its easy to call that a success, but in actuality, that's not what they had planned. Still a great day for SpaceX for a first launch of this rocket.

    1. Re:Second Stage Burn over australia by Sir_Lewk · · Score: 1

      Do you have any sort of sources at all for this? I didn't know that the Falcon 9 was ever supposed to be able to achieve escape velocity. What exactly where they supposedly shooting for? A moon shot?

      Anyways, their brand new rocket didn't blow up and acheived orbit the first time they tried it, I think it'd be easy to spin this as a sucess regardless.

      --
      "linux is just DOS with a UNIX like syntax" -- Galactic Dominator (944134)
    2. Re:Second Stage Burn over australia by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 4, Informative

      Do you have any sort of sources at all for this? I didn't know that the Falcon 9 was ever supposed to be able to achieve escape velocity. What exactly where they supposedly shooting for? A moon shot?

      There is always a final burn after 1/2 orbit to circularize the orbit. Which is probably what the OP was babbling about. There was no intention to put the Falcon 9 into an escape orbit.

      On the other hand, Falcon 9 is capable of putting a payload into GEO. It requires more deltaV to achieve a circular orbit at GEO than it does to reach escape speed (if the fuel needed to circularize the orbit at GEO were spent during the initial boost, Falcon 9 would be about 150 m/s shy of a Mars transfer orbit.

      --

      "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
    3. Re:Second Stage Burn over australia by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Escape velocity is easy to achieve. Hell, a delta 2 sent both rovers to mars. The falcon9 has a lot more lift than it. They weren't aiming for anything, with a hyperbolic orbit right over a ground station they can track it for a long time as it travels away from the earth and gain valuable data.

      Yes, it was more successful than even they had hoped. Even if the second stage didn't light at all, they would have still called it a success. And I would agree with that. They got more accomplished than Ares I did, and that launch cost over a billion dollars.

    4. Re:Second Stage Burn over australia by goodmanj · · Score: 2, Informative

      According to the Falcon 9 user's guide, it's capable of sending a payload of about 2.5 tons to escape velocity (C3=0).

      Though I agree, the OP meant "orbit circularization".

      Anyway, three cheers for SpaceX, but if I were NASA I'd make damn sure they know what the deal was with that roll before they let a Dragon anywhere near the ISS.

    5. Re:Second Stage Burn over australia by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Anyway, three cheers for SpaceX, but if I were NASA I'd make damn sure they know what the deal was with that roll before they let a Dragon anywhere near the ISS.

      Thing the first: the next test flight will put the prototype Dragon into orbit for tests. It won't go to the ISS.

      Thing the second: the real Dragon (as opposed to the dummy atop yesterday's test launch) has quite a comprehensive set of maneuvering & attitude control thrusters. It should be quite capable of stabilizing itself, even if it ends up rolling.

      Thing the third: that roll is going to be a problem for any launch that doesn't involve a spacecraft with its own attitude control system. Which almost certainly means that that's what SpaceX is going to be working on come Monday...assuming they're not all still hung-over anyways.

      --

      "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
    6. Re:Second Stage Burn over australia by cheesybagel · · Score: 1

      The dummy payload was meant to simulate a Dragon capsule. I doubt the rocket has enough power to lift that kind of large payload all the way to GEO. SpaceX is selling Falcon 9 to NASA for ISS resupply. The ISS is at an altitude of around 336 km. The target altitude for this flight was allegedly 250 km. A large part of the trip to the station is meant to be done using the capsule's small orbital Draco engines (which were not AFAIK installed or used in this flight).

    7. Re:Second Stage Burn over australia by Muad'Dave · · Score: 1

      From Heavens-above.com:

      Dragon/Falcon 9's orbit: 242 x 268 km, 34.5 (Epoch Jun 7)

      I'd say they made their orbit. If you live within about 40 degrees of the equator you're likely to have visible passes of the spacecraft. Use heavens-above.com to get listings for your location.

      --
      Tiller's Rule: Never use a word in written form that you've only heard and never read. You will end up looking foolish.
  10. maybe Australia has a space program by FudRucker · · Score: 1

    and nobody outside Australia knows about it, and we all think it is just some UFO flyover when they launch a rocket in to space.

    --
    Politics is Treachery, Religion is Brainwashing
    1. Re:maybe Australia has a space program by MichaelSmith · · Score: 3, Informative

      and nobody outside Australia knows about it, and we all think it is just some UFO flyover when they launch a rocket in to space.

      Come on. Nobody here can keep a secret. Have you met an Australian outside AU who knows how to shut up?

    2. Re:maybe Australia has a space program by not-my-real-name · · Score: 1

      Come on. Nobody here can keep a secret. Have you met an Australian outside AU who knows how to shut up?

      But, that's what they want you to think.

      (goes to adjust tinfoil hat)

      --
      un-ALTERED reproduction and dissimination of this IMPORTANT information is ENCOURAGED
    3. Re:maybe Australia has a space program by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Come on. Nobody here can keep a secret. Have you met an Australian outside AU who knows how to shut up?"

      They same thing could be said about many countries, though top of the list would probably be the US.

      The simple fact is that people living overseas from their birth country are much more likely to be adventurous and extroverted relative to their country men that stay in their birth country.

  11. Some perspective: by OpenGLFan · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Some perspective: I used to live in Huntsville, AL, and I currently live in Austin, TX.

    Shelby's just trying to protect the funding of of the Marshall SFC NASA group in Huntsville, AL. In their defense, the HSV group kicks a lot of ass, and is a welcome outpost of science and engineering in Alabama.

    KBHutchinson is just an ignorant asshole.

    1. Re:Some perspective: by Low+Ranked+Craig · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Regardless, he sounds like an ignorant ass. I really do hate both political parties. They are both filled with buffoons, just left buffoons and right buffoons.

      --
      I still cannot find the droids I am looking for...
    2. Re:Some perspective: by goodmanj · · Score: 1

      Same deal with KBHutchinson, she's trying to protect Johnson Space Center. She could also be an ignorant ass too, I dunno.

      I gotta feel bad for Alabama, though. I could be just an ignorant Yankee, but from here, it looks like if you take away Huntsville, Alabama's up an economic creek without a high-tech paddle.

  12. I'm a little confused here.... by 3seas · · Score: 1

    ...over the key word "Probably"....

    Amazing how we can get to space but don't know how...

  13. Sen. Richard Shelby's Comment by TXP · · Score: 2

    SpaceX is trying to make rocket launchs come off an "assembly-line". This alone would be an impressive feat. Comparing this to a 1964 launch would be like comparing the 8086 cpu to modern quad core. My amature opinion on the launch: I don't think spacex has been totally successful as mentioned by quite a few other posts. They keep spiraling out of control, they need better rocket/jet rudders or something to improve their out of atmosphere control.

    1. Re:Sen. Richard Shelby's Comment by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      my amateur opinion on your post: i don't think you've been totally successful. you need better dictionaries or something to improve your spelling control.

    2. Re:Sen. Richard Shelby's Comment by DaveV1.0 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Comparing this to a 1964 launch would be like comparing the 8086 cpu to modern quad core.

      Bwahahahaha!!!! That is rich, fucking hilarious even. No, it is not like that at all, or at least not like you mean.

      A private company succeeded in launching its first sub/low orbital rocket and it was only a year late. There are no truly innovative technologies used in the Falcon 9. It is comparable to a Titan III rocket, first launched in 1965.

      The most innovative part of the Falcon 9 is that both stages are "designed" to be reusable, but that capability is not certain but rather hoped for and has yet to be demonstrated.

      Literally, this is the equivalent of a private company demonstrating its new single core, 32 bit, RISC processor. It is old technology that has been mastered repeatedly by others and is nothing special.

      --
      There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
    3. Re:Sen. Richard Shelby's Comment by asaz989 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Actually, it is special. It's cheap. Which was the whole point, from the beginning.
      SpaceX isn't aiming to do anything new, they're aiming to do the same thing for less than half the price (per kilogram, Falcon 9 Heavy compared to the Ariane 5).

    4. Re:Sen. Richard Shelby's Comment by DaveV1.0 · · Score: 1

      It is still a two trick pony: Satellites to LEO, and satellites to GEO. It does not take the place of the shuttle and most especially does not take the place of the Constellation program.

      --
      There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
    5. Re:Sen. Richard Shelby's Comment by cheesybagel · · Score: 1

      The microprocessor (e.g. 8086) was crap compared to a mainframe, or even minicomputer, processor. Only in the 1990s did microcomputers add features (e.g. superscalar processing) which supercomputers had been using since the 1960s. What made the microprocessor special was that it was cheap. It meant everyone could have a computer, rather than it being the preserve of government laboratories or mega corporations.

      SpaceX is selling the Falcon 9 at a price lower than even 2nd hand Russian military rockets. If you cannot understand why this difference in price can be market transformative, you aren't looking very far. They also managed to recover from an aborted launch, in which the engines ignited, in some 2 hours and executed a successful launch afterward. Not a lot of other companies can say the same. Try shutting down and restarting the Shuttle's solids in a similar scenario. You could not do it. Sometimes "old" tech design is better than "new" tech design.

      Also compare this with NASA. Ares I was originally planned to use a SSME engine for the second stage. Then they figured out it would be impossible to air start the complex staged combustion SSME engine because it was originally designed to be ground started with a complicated ignition sequence. Compare this with SpaceX which reused their Merlin 1 first stage rocket engine for the Falcon 9 second stage without major issues.

      The fact is there is nothing wrong with SpaceX's design. It is fairly conservative, but this also means it is more rugged and cheaper to manufacture. Had they gone, say, for staged combustion they could have squeezed some more percent of performance at a lot of cost and even more design time.

      Check out Delta IV. The RS-68 engine is nothing special either. It is gas generator, not staged combustion like SSME which is a couple of decades older. It is effectively 1960s engine cycle tech, done with 1990s tools and techniques. The big deal with it is that it is cheap. Atlas V uses a high performance Russian engine because there is no one in the US which has been able to manufacture a kerolox staged combustion engine, let alone the price the Russians sell RD-180.

      SpaceX already has customers. Once they demonstrate the ability to repeatedly launch vehicles new customers, even markets will come up.

  14. I wish I saw it! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm in Adelaide and was walking to work between 4am and 5am local time, I wish I saw it!

    1. Re:I wish I saw it! by caffeine_high · · Score: 2, Informative

      You did not miss much from what I saw. I'm in Newcastle and was out for an early ride and say it at 5.50 EST. To me it looked more like a unusual cloud formation near the moon. It was interesting enough for me to mention it to my friends when I met them at 6 but they did not even notice it. I did not think about it again until I saw it on the evening news with a few ufo nuts.

      --
      The smarter home exchange, http://switchhomes.net
  15. A curse on Sen. Richard Shelby! by Titan1080 · · Score: 1

    May his gulf shores be tainted with oil for years to come!

  16. Politicians by Dunbal · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Sen. Richard Shelby (R-AL) for merely replicating what 'NASA accomplished in 1964,' who added that the company's success 'must not be confused with progress for our nation's human spaceflight program.'"

          The bit he left out was the fact that America as a "nation" has lost the space race altogether. Unless of course you count buying seats on Soyuz spacecraft as part of the "American manned space program"... Yes America put a man on the moon - but what have they done SINCE then, Shelby - while YOU were in office? In fact, while Elon Musk was busy building a billion dollar company (PayPal) that many people use every day, all you did was suck up taxpayer dollars feeding off of society and pretending to be important. Then Mr. Musk goes on to found another visionary company while you just whine and bitch and believe that you actually contribute to society. Truth is that Shelby can be replaced instantly by someone just as mediocre.

          SpaceX has demonstrated it can now lift useful, heavy payloads into orbit. This is the beginning of a business model - one that never worked for NASA. Instead of whining about how America did this a long time ago he should realize that this is not costing the taxpayer anything at all AND is the beginning of regular self funding, sustainable space flight. A boon to ALL of humanity.

    --
    Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
    1. Re:Politicians by DaveV1.0 · · Score: 1

      Exactly who did we lose the space race to?

      --
      There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
    2. Re:Politicians by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Russia, China, and soon India all have more advanced space programs than the USA right now. China will have a *permanent* manned lunar base by 2025. They *will* do this, not just talk about it. Japan will have a robot base by around then. You will have... nothing. Very shortly, your only way to get a human into space will be to beg rides from the Russians or Chinese. Your weather satellite network is falling apart and your GPS network is being superseded by a more accurate European one.

      I think that qualifies as "losing".

    3. Re:Politicians by DrDitto · · Score: 1

      LMAO. Talk to me when all of this "will have" stuff is complete. Don't doubt what the world's largest economy can accomplish if it decides to prioritize something (yeah, I know...China "will" overtake the U.S. by some year I'm sure you can throw out).

    4. Re:Politicians by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It is really a race if others arrive at the finish 50 years later and find it abandoned because the previous winner realized there was nothing there of any value?

    5. Re:Politicians by the+gnat · · Score: 1

      China will have a *permanent* manned lunar base by 2025. They *will* do this, not just talk about it.

      So far, they've done a lot more talking than doing. It seems more imminent than it probably is only because credible news sources took the claims of some Chinese scientists too seriously, and because "OMFG China is becoming a superpower" stories have been in vogue for the past decade and becoming even more common. The first stories I could find on this were from 2002, and suggested that China might have a manned moon landing by 2010. Right now they're claiming that they might have a manned moon landing by 2020, or maybe 2030, or they might set up a lunar base by 2030, but none of this appears to be actually funded yet.

      I'm sure they could do this if they really wanted to, just like the US could have landed someone on Mars decades ago, but it's probably going to take just as long for them to actually get around to it. The problem, as always, is not that the technology isn't available, it's that the available technology is so cripplingly expensive and the tangible rewards so limited. One of the claims is that they'll mine the lunar surface for He-3 for fusion power. . . which still hasn't even been proven, and with ITER climbing above $20 billion, behind schedule and already reduced in size, I'm not optimistic about that changing any time soon.

      Right now it's to China's advantage - or at least its leaders think it is - to make these bold claims so they can impress everyone and throw their weight around just like the USA has been doing for the last 65 years. There's no reason why China can't continue to become wealthier and a true superpower, but their government is so tin-eared that I doubt it's going to be as rapid and smooth a rise as our local prophets of doom seem to think. Once they start getting sucked into resource wars and citizens of Third-World countries start burning Chinese flags outside their embassies and the tens-of-millions of surplus young Chinese men realize that they're never getting laid ever, their progress may slow down a little bit.

    6. Re:Politicians by snowwrestler · · Score: 2, Informative

      Russia, China, and soon India all have more advanced space programs than the USA right now.

      Not right now. The U.S. put more people into orbit on one flight last month than China has in their entire history. Maybe someday China and India will pass us, but not yet.

      --
      Build a man a fire, he's warm for one night. Set him on fire, and he's warm for the rest of his life.
    7. Re:Politicians by goodmanj · · Score: 3, Informative

      Agree. If there's one thing space exploration has taught us, it's that plans count for nothing. The US had grand plans for the Shuttle. The Soviets had grand plans for the Moon. You don't have a space program until main engine cutoff.

      I don't want to be a chest-beating American here, the grandparent post may turn out to be true 20 years from now. But right now, at this moment, the U.S. has:

      1 guy in orbit
      300 tonnes of space station hardware in orbit
      13-20 Earth-observing satellites
      2-3 sun-observing missions
      1 mission to Mercury
      1 mission to the asteroid belt
      4-5 missions to Mars
      1 mission at Saturn
      1 mission heading to Pluto

      plus some miscellaneous ones I've forgotten about. Some numbers are approximate because it depends on how you count.

      Anyway, *that* is a space program. The future may bring what the future may bring, but right now, find me another country that is doing a tenth as much space stuff.

    8. Re:Politicians by goodmanj · · Score: 1

      Correction: the guy in orbit is actually a chick.

    9. Re:Politicians by goodmanj · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Here's another way of looking at it. Kind of a Republican way, though Sen. Shelby would hate to admit it.

      The achievements of NASA are not the only things the U.S. has accomplished. For all its weaknesses, the U.S. is the only country on Earth where some random dude from South Africa can come, get an education, become a citizen, start a company to revolutionize the way the world buys stuff, sell it for bajillions, and then start launching rockets into orbit, partly because it's awesome, partly as a stepping-stone toward getting humanity off this damned rock.

      The achievements of Elon Musk and SpaceX do not just demonstrate America's flaws. They point out what's *great* about America.

    10. Re:Politicians by evilviper · · Score: 1

      Russia, China, and soon India all have more advanced space programs than the USA right now.

      Umm, actually all of the above are more PRIMITIVE than the US' relevant programs. The fact that the space shuttle has been taken out of service doesn't change that fact. The US continues to launch plenty of unmanned missions.

      China will have a *permanent* manned lunar base by 2025. They *will* do this, not just talk about it.

      That's HILARIOUS.

      China doesn't nothing but talk, extensively, about every topic under the sun. If you believe damn near any of it, you're a fool. China states, routinely, how their country is going to surpass all others in every possible pursuit on a regular basis. It never happens. Spouting crap is what they do.

      Very shortly, your only way to get a human into space will be to beg rides from the Russians or Chinese.

      Your weather satellite network is falling apart

      We're all falling apart. Time works that way. As long as the weather satellite network continues to work, complaints about it are academic.

      and your GPS network is being superseded by a more accurate European one.

      We've been hearing that for, what, 15 years? The fact that the EU feels the need for one-upsmanship by duplicating the functionality of GPS at a ridiculous cost, for no benefit, is fine by me. Good luck with that.

      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
    11. Re:Politicians by evilviper · · Score: 1

      Yes America put a man on the moon - but what have they done SINCE then,

      Hmmm... Numerous Mars Rovers and other probes, Hubble space telescope, Spitzer space telescope, New Horizons on it's way to intergalactic space, put up and assembled a massive space station, etc.

      Yeah, nothing...

      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
    12. Re:Politicians by UK+Boz · · Score: 1

      .. and ditto for any politician. Only Kennedy had real Balls, the rest cant see past another ride on the gravy train.

      --
      www.boznz.com Simple solutions to complex problems.
    13. Re:Politicians by Dunbal · · Score: 1

      I guess you never heard that kid's story about the tortoise and the hare, right? Yeah yeah, no value, etc.

            No value in starting a colony in the New World either, right? I mean the first colony in what was to become America was in Jamestown Virginia in 1607. The New World was discovered in 1492, 115 years earlier. Certainly there was "no rush" to set up colonies, because I guess the expense (a couple thousand pounds - a small personal fortune in those days) in no way justified such a venture... Moral: you don't know what you could be are losing out on until it's over.

      --
      Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
    14. Re:Politicians by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      China doesn't nothing but talk, extensively, about every topic under the sun. If you believe damn near any of it, you're a fool.

      China talked about the Olympics. Many didn't think they'd get done what needed to get done. They did, and they did better than those who discount them thought they would. Sure, their weather control fell a little short, but they spent billions to get everything done and ready to go. They have the high speed rail to Lhasa, the first an a number of things. They have Three Gorges (mostly done, I think everything from the original plan is done and they added some things that haven't been done yet) and it's the largest power plant of any kind anywhere in the world. They may talk about everything, but they aren't only talk. To dismiss them is to not understand them, and Sun Tsu (you might have heard of him, he was Chinese) would have words with you.

      China states, routinely, how their country is going to surpass all others in every possible pursuit on a regular basis. It never happens.

      They claimed they'd make the highest high speed rail, and they did. They claimed they'd build the largest power plant the planet has ever seen, and they did. They said they'd surpass all others in specific areas and did. That you say "it never happens" indicates you are an idiot or a liar. Not that I'm arguing with you, as you are obviously not worth it, I just want to make sure no one else listens to your crap.

    15. Re:Politicians by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      China talked about the Olympics. Many didn't think they'd get done what needed to get done. They did, and they did better than those who discount them thought they would. Sure, their weather control fell a little short, but they spent billions to get everything done and ready to go.

      Unseasonal floods != "fell a little flat"

      They have the high speed rail to Lhasa, the first an a number of things.

      A little early to brag on that right now. WE'll see how it turns out.

      They have Three Gorges (mostly done, I think everything from the original plan is done and they added some things that haven't been done yet) and it's the largest power plant of any kind anywhere in the world.

      Three Gorges is one of the greatest environmental tragedies of the modern age.
      Fits in nicely in a country where copper wire is commonly stripped for recycling by burning off the PVC covering, producing dioxins which travel so far as the USA.

      That you say "it never happens" indicates you are an idiot or a liar. Not that I'm arguing with you, as you are obviously not worth it, I just want to make sure no one else listens to your crap.

      Certainly it is excessive hyperbole but I think it is fairly clear that China's self-image is seriously overinflated.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    16. Re:Politicians by aaronfaby · · Score: 1

      that this is not costing the taxpayer anything at all AND is the beginning of regular self funding, sustainable space flight. A boon to ALL of humanity.

      Actually, I believe SpaceX is receiving Federal funding, so this is costing the taxpayer. However, it is costing us exponentially less than Ares.

      Remember years ago when NASA's motto became "cheaper, faster"? Privatizing space flight is the best way to do this.

    17. Re:Politicians by cheesybagel · · Score: 1

      Once the Shuttle is retired (in what 1 year?) the only way for astronauts to get to ISS will be to use a Russian Soyuz. Or perhaps a Chinese Shenzhou. Lots of next generation US military satellite projects have been aborted for running over schedule and budget for years on years.

    18. Re:Politicians by cheesybagel · · Score: 1

      China has some of the world's largest solar panel manufacturing plants. There are other resources in space besides He-3.

      China cannot achieve a moon base without doing several intermediate steps first. I think they will only be able to do it in 2030 perhaps a bit sooner. One critical milestone is to get their next generation Long March 5 rocket family up and running. The first flight is only planned to happen in 2014 and may slip further. To build a Moon base they will probably wait until their next launcher generation, after Long March 5, which should take at least a decade to design.

      China's space program has proceeded at a snail's pace. However they have been pretty committed to their space program because it is essential as part of their military force projection abilities. China should this year surpass Japan and become the world's 2nd largest economy, right behind the USA. This should allow them to ramp up their space investments substantially.

    19. Re:Politicians by cheesybagel · · Score: 1

      Three Gorges is one of the greatest environmental tragedies of the modern age.

      It is precisely this kind of misguided, pseudo ecologist, decadent mode of thought that is leading to Western downfall. Fortunately the Chinese have not fell prey to such anti-progressive trite.

    20. Re:Politicians by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      So your argument is that, because you don't like the environmentalism of the Three Gorges, that it isn't the largest power plant on the planet? Either they said they'd make the largest and then did it, or they didn't. If you can't address the facts, just say "I hate Chinks" and let us move on. And what do we have to wait and see about the rail line to Lhasa? Last I saw, it was running fine. Are you expecting a mass derailment? Or are you expecting it to be used to further kill the Tibetan culture? After all, we are talking only about technical achievements, and if you can't accept a technical achievement because you don't like the politics of it, then we aren't having the same conversation. If you are complaining about the technical aspects, rather than whiny "we'll see" comments about the train, make an actual statement about the shortcomings, otherwise I'll assume it's perfect and you are a bitter racist.

      Certainly it is excessive hyperbole but I think it is fairly clear that China's self-image is seriously overinflated.

      I call factually incorrect excessive hyperboles lies. And I'd be interested in seeing how you'd compare the self-image of China to the US and let me know which one you think is the most overinflated and why. Because where I sit (having spend a few months in China and being from the US), I'd say that it's too close to call.

    21. Re:Politicians by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Funny you talk about those 300 tonnes of space station. Actually, only 3 of the 14 modules that comprise the ISS are have been built by the USA. The rest have been build in Russia (5 of them), Europe (4) and Japan (2). Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Space_Station

    22. Re:Politicians by Muad'Dave · · Score: 1

      Sadly, we've lost the space race to all those 'desperately needed' 'entitlement' programs that are killing the whole world economy. Instead of spending a dollar on space research to help all of mankind, we've spent the dollar to breed and feed a mouth that will be hungry again tomorrow.

      --
      Tiller's Rule: Never use a word in written form that you've only heard and never read. You will end up looking foolish.
  17. Ob. Red Dwarf by ozbird · · Score: 3, Funny

    Cat: I hate to go all technical on you, but: All hands on deck, Swirly Thing Alert!

  18. Space? by scottwilkins · · Score: 0

    Silly Republicans, space is for kids.

  19. Supernova by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    I'm still laughing at the people in the background of the news footage (http://news.ninemsn.com.au/technology/1064435/ufos-seen-zooming-over-eastern-australia).

    "I don't think it's a supernova now that I look at it..."

    Yep. Definitely makes you proud to be an Australian.

  20. "spiraling light" by ridgecritter · · Score: 1

    would be consistent with the increasing roll rate apparent in the onboard video as the second stage approached burnout. Haven't gone to YouTube yet to review, but it was clear that although the vehicle made it to orbit and may have made it through the intended insertion window, attitude (roll axis) control was not happy. I hope SpaceX will discuss what happened...purely as a matter of engineering curiosity, I wonder if it was a problem with roll G&C or whether a nozzle/bell burn asymmetry put a torque on the vehicle that was beyond G&C roll control authority, or ???

  21. not an Earth escape mission by ridgecritter · · Score: 1

    No, Falcon 9 was never intended, nor did it have the delta V needed, to achieve escape velocity. Orbital velocity (LEO) ~ 5 miles/sec. Escape velocity (Earth) ~ 7 miles/sec. Nowhere enough propellant on board to achieve the latter. If there was an engine restart after the ascent burn, it may have been an attempt to raise the perigee, a routine astrogation move to circularize the orbit.

  22. SpaceX is where NASA was in 1964? by voss · · Score: 1

    As opposed to NASA who's Ares I-X rocket is where NASA was in 1957.

    spacex for better or worse, has made slow but steady progress towards a manned orbital launch platform and will be ready
    years ahead of Ares.

  23. From the first link by schn · · Score: 1

    '...it looked like a row of lights, maybe four lights', he said.

    1. Re:From the first link by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There Are FOUR lights! -Picard

  24. The other part that Obama's critics dont get by voss · · Score: 2, Informative

    Obama is trying to develop a viable space program that works and we can actually afford. The first part of that is a lowering
    the cost to get stuff to orbit. Spacex will be part of that plan

  25. What are the odds of an entire weekend passing... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...Without timothy posting non-stories from his beloved Australia?

    Anyone?

  26. contact on earth 2010 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hi all,

    Troll here, are we all going to just let this moment pass us by, or acknowledge that something amazing has happened on planet earth, what's the next step? contact on tv with live alien beings? disclosure project is nearing their goal!

  27. Correct me if I'm wrong... by jonadab · · Score: 1

    But since we know what it was, wouldn't that make it an _Identified_ Flying Object?

    --
    Cut that out, or I will ship you to Norilsk in a box.
  28. Same as in Norway? by vanderbosch · · Score: 1

    Is this the same sort of light that was seen above Norway not long ago?

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8406633.stm

  29. So vote Republican. by FatSean · · Score: 1

    So vote Republican.

    --
    Blar.
  30. Oh silly Senators by JasoninKS · · Score: 1

    Senator Shelby seems to have forgotten...that "precious" Constellation program that was cancelled was little more than an oversized version of what NASA did in the 60's anyway.

  31. Obligatory by sconeu · · Score: 1

    <voice type="Jean-Luc Picard">
    There are FOUR LIGHTS!!!!
    </voice>

    --
    General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
  32. much leanrt, much forgotten... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    " and blasted by Sen. Richard Shelby (R-AL) for merely replicating what 'NASA accomplished in 1964,' "
    lol. what an idiot.
    he must have forgotten that a new born baby doesn't automatically have
    the total sum of knowledge from its parents and grandparents.
    it would be the same, as to say that it is no feat, to learn and understand
    special and general relativity, because "it's just replicating what someone
    figured out 100 years ago".
    mister senator, THIS IS, still, ROCKET-SCIENCE!

  33. What about Hayabusa? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Wasn't Hayabusa due to crsh, er, land in Australia anytime soon ? Bringing an asteroid sample. After disappearing, being given up lost, then reappearing and being reaquired much later? With a successful sample they ('them' science folk) thought it hadn't caught, at first ?

    I'd only be worried if, recently, a probe to the edge of the solar system started to malfunction and start transmitting incomprenhisible data streams. Or a Galaxy sattellite went dead except for aircraft GPS functions and bent-pipe transmision - coasting away to a Lagrange point. I'd really be worried if anyone had made, like, one or two movies about it already.