MorphOS 2.5 Released, Supports More Old Macs

An anonymous reader writes "The MorphOS Team has released version 2.5 of its PPC computer-only operating system. The new version extends its support of the PPC Mac range to include the eMac, which was the 2002-2006 Mac model consisting of a CRT monitor and computer in a single housing. MorphOS previously and continues to support the PPC Mac mini, as well as the Pegasos and Efika niche computers (all discontinued but available second-hand). MorphOS includes a web browser and TCP/IP stack and a few traditional baseline OS-associated apps among its features. Further software is available from a range of online repositories. MorphOS 2.5 comes on a bootable 30-minute demo live CD ISO which may also be installed. The ISO is available for free download by anyone. The 30-minute limit is removed by online purchase of registration/key file which is available for a limited period for the sum of 111 euros to celebrate the launch of this version."

Comments

Is it

[Anonymous Coward]

Morph from Orph?

Why not just use a Linux distribution?

[assassinator42]

It's free and probably works with more programs.

Re:Why not just use a Linux distribution?

[Ethanol-fueled]

Why not just use a Linux distribution?

People'd use this for the same reasons they'd use BeOS and ReactOS. You're right, though -- they'd probably be able to get actual work done with a Linux distribution.

Re:Why not just use a Linux distribution?

[David Gerard]

And supports more hardware. Ubuntu PPC on a Mac G4 works just the same, is a better CD/DVD burner than Tiger and supports hardware that Mac OS X doesn't.

Re:Why not just use a Linux distribution?

[flnca]

Well, MorphOS is one of the few Amiga-compatible OSes that remain that can run natively ... MorphOS has some interesting concepts by itself ... it does have some applications. I used it on Efika for a while ... the only thing about MorphOS I came to dislike was the lack of virtual memory and the fact that it was closed-source. But certainly, you're right ... Linux and even the BSDs are so good nowadays that there's barely a reason to use MorphOS (let alone AmigaOS 4) except for people who want (or need) to run an Amiga-like OS natively. The speed is certainly impressive. You'd get a lot of bang for the buck if everything related to it wasn't so expensive (the hardware, the OS, some of the software). There was an Intel-based clone of AmigaOS once but Amiga Inc. forced it off the market. Another aspect speaking for it is the simplicity of writing device drivers. So it can have some applications in the embedded area where time-to-market and speed are more important than price.

Re:Why not just use a Linux distribution?

[chaoskitty]

Why not just use Windows?

The reasons some people might give for using GNU/Linux (Linux is just a kernel, after all) are probably similar to the reason that people might give for using MorphOS. Some people like the development environment (especially people who learned on AmigaOS), some people probably enjoy the efficiency of this OS on PowerPC hardware, and some people like to be different and not run the same software as everyone else.

There are no GUIs for GNU/Linux which are as efficient or as intuitive as AmigaOS, and MorphOS tries to continue that philosophy.

Re:Why not just use a Linux distribution?

[Darkness404]

The thing is, why would you really need to run Amiga OS? Other than admiring the simplicity and the architecture and all that fun stuff, theres no real reason to run Amiga OS for day-to-day work that can't be done with a decent Linux distro.

Re:Why not just use a Linux distribution?

[icebraining]

Except those are open source, community driven projects and this is an expensive, closed source OS.

Re:Why not just use a Linux distribution?

[Bert64]

Cost has been the undoing of AmigaOS for many years...
When i first got an Amiga, it was because the machine was relatively cheap while still being pretty capable. It was capable of gaming with the simplicity of a console, while also having an OS allowing serious and/or educational work to be done... You could buy one for your kids and they would enjoy playing games on it, but could also hook up a printer and do their school work.

However, once i started trying to get the amiga online that all fell apart... Even simple things like a tcp stack, telnet client or web browser cost money and all these costs soon added up. After a while it simply wasn't worth keeping the Amiga anymore.

More recently, i tried MorphOS on a mac mini and found it fun to play with for a few minutes, but certainly not worth 111 euro.. Same goes for AmigaOS 4, it's certainly not worth the price of the OS plus having to buy low spec but relatively expensive hardware to run it on.

Re:Why not just use a Linux distribution?

[larpon]

you could consider AROS to be intel-based although it runs on other architectures :)

Re:Why not just use a Linux distribution?

[Bert64]

Unlike MorphOS, Linux:

Costs nothing
Runs on a much wider array of hardware
Is open source
Has a much wider array of useful applications - enough to be usable on a day to day basis

And i imagine that despite the efficiency of morphos, a 2ghz g4 (does it even support the g5?) will not outperform a modern quad core system...

Re:Why not just use a Linux distribution?

[flnca]

That's right, I forgot about that one! :)

Re:Why not just use a Linux distribution?

[jaak]

Windows NT supported PowerPC.

Re:Why not just use a Linux distribution?

[sznupi]

BeOS open source?

Re:Why not just use a Linux distribution?

[PopeRatzo]

So David, let me ask you something: If you had a 17" G4 Macbook Pro, is there any advantage to using Ubuntu PPC in place of OS X? I've got such a machine and I don't use it much any more but I'd like to get some productivity out of it. So many of the programs that I use a Mac for now require Intel (Logic Studio, Netflix via browser, Eve Online) that unfortunately this beautiful machine is just not a go-to system for me any more. Considering it cost me 4 grand, I'd like to squeeze some more life out of it. It's got 2gig RAM.

Maybe I'll dual boot OSX and Ubuntu PPC.

Re:Why not just use a Linux distribution?

[sznupi]

Amithlon was perhaps even more interesting in its time - a fully transparent layer (build around a stripped down Linux or something) providing the ability to run AmigaOS 3.9, through JIT 68k emulation, on quite typical x86 machine. Also with binary compatibility and being the fastest Amiga back then, by a huuuge margin.

But killed quickly, supposedly due to some IP troubles; though I suspect the idea of not milking Amiga faithful was simply too hard to swallow.

Re:Why not just use a Linux distribution?

[somersault]

You'd get a lot of bang for the buck if everything related to it wasn't so expensive

Best thought ever.

Re:Why not just use a Linux distribution?

[somersault]

Other than admiring the simplicity and the architecture and all that fun stuff, theres no real reason to run Linux for day-to-day work that can't be done with Windows.

FTFY?

I am a Linux user btw, I just think this is a silly line of thought.

Re:Why not just use a Linux distribution?

[sznupi]

Hell, why one would bother with Linux distro for day-to-day work if it can be done with Windows that came preinstalled on a laptop...

Re:Why not just use a Linux distribution?

[bedouin]

Yeah, but it never actually ran on any Macs.

Re:Why not just use a Linux distribution?

[sznupi]

There's always AROS if you really want all that (and it and MorphOS have enough apps "to be usable on a day to day basis")

But since MorphOS, among few other things, is doing relatively (very relatively, yeah...) fine even with AROS around, perhaps its community doesn't care about those factors all that much (plus...)

As for the speed, and most notably the percieved speed...I wouldn't be so certain. Grab AROS, it's reasonably comparable for our needs (more rough though); there are even some VMs of recent builds always available. And run it on as low amount of processing power as you can get your hands on.

Re:Why not just use a Linux distribution?

[icebraining]

I assumed he was talking about Haiku - do people really still use an OS that stopped being developed a decade ago?

Re:Why not just use a Linux distribution?

[Smeagel]

Security, stability, plethora of truly free applications...tons of reasons that make your day-to-day tasks much faster. Hell half the reason I dislike windows so much these days is the UI, I just work faster on my fully-customized linux machine.

Even if you say these reason are all arguable, which they are, at least there are solid arguable reasons. I've seen no such arguments for MorphOS.

Re:Why not just use a Linux distribution?

[sznupi]

Security (c'mon...what malicious thing would run on MorpOS?), snappiness, plethora of Amiga and Amiga-style apps you love (and which work for you)...tons of reasons that make your day-to-day tasks much faster.

Even if you say these reason are all arguable, which they are, at least there are solid arguable reasons.

Re:Why not just use a Linux distribution?

[sznupi]

So maybe also assume this news is about AROS, ehh?

Re:Why not just use a Linux distribution?

[Bert64]

Aros didn't seem all that quick (tried it on a dell latitude c610, (1.2ghz cpu and 512mb ram - it wouldnt boot on my regular desktop)... Also when trying to rebuild the OS out of curiosity when it first became self hosting, it got slower and slower until it basically froze.

Re:Why not just use a Linux distribution?

[sznupi]

I wouldn't be surprised if that was some unintended effect of trying to run it natively...

Re:Why not just use a Linux distribution?

[pipatron]

It was laughable back then and it's laughable now. I still check Aminet now and then, and there are still crazy people that release everything for the Amiga as shareware. It's insane when you compare with all the 100% free applications that people spend hours and hours on for linux.

Re:Why not just use a Linux distribution?

[niteshifter]

... do people really still use an OS that stopped being developed a decade ago?

Yep. Even older: The last DOS (MSDOS 4.01, running on a ancient Compaq) install I had to maintain was retired last July. This in a ~ 26bil (US) Fortune 500 company. It operated a testing apparatus. Lack of slow enough hardware (not kidding) to replace that Compaq was why it was retired.

Re:Why not just use a Linux distribution?

[AnonymousX]

So basically we can emulate a dead OS made by a dead computer company that runs on a dead end line of Macs. And it only costs $150? Don't everyone rush at once!

Re:Why not just use a Linux distribution?

[Lord Byron II]

do people really still use an OS that stopped being developed a decade ago?

Yes, Windows XP.

Re:Why not just use a Linux distribution?

[icebraining]

What are you talking about? It got a Service Pack two years ago, and still get patches. Not the same thing at all.

Re:Why not just use a Linux distribution?

[solafide]

How about in terms of power efficiency?

Re:Why not just use a Linux distribution?

[yuhong]

Yea, it was one of several OSes that was supposed to run on hardware confirming to the PReP/CHRP hardware standard that was created as part of the attempt to push PowerPC processor-based computers as an better alternative to IBM PC compatibles based on x86 processors. The Advanced Computing Environment's Advanced RISC Computing (ARC) standard was a similar standard created for a similar purpose, but for the MIPS processor instead of PowerPC.

Re:Why not just use a Linux distribution?

[hairyfeet]

I can top that! Last I heard my old gamer rig, which I had to dig out of my shed for a customer a few years back, a whopping Pentium 100Mhz with 32Mb of RAM, two PCI and 3 ISA slots, is STILL running DOS 3 in a lumber company down the road!

The owner of the mill left his kid in charge while he went on vacation, and wouldn't you know it that would be the time their ancient DOS 3 PC that ran the lathe that did custom columns would take a shit. The kid came into our shop practically having a heart attack, because the old lathe (which apparently was an 85k+ piece of hardware back in the 80s and the company that made it is long out of business) would only run on an ISA slot and only on DOS 3, and every shop said they didn't have anything that old. Naturally they had a big job requiring those custom columns due by the end of the week and the kid was ready to shit puppies. I thought that kid was gonna faint when I said "I think I got a couple of ISA PCs out in my shed that works". Luckily the board and not the whole 20Mb HDD was what died on their old one, so I was able to clone it onto my old gamer rigs and get it back to life.

So you'd be surprised what some folks are still using, and when you consider it would probably cost the 50k to replace that custom lathe you really can't blame 'em. I ended up making $400 for those two old junkers PLUS time and a half PLUS double my usual service call fee just to go set them up and show the kid how to keep the spare in running order. Last I heard my old DOOM box is still running that lathe, 5 days a week, just running that single program in DOS 3. They really don't make them like that anymore. Those beige boxes were fugly, but they were built like tanks.

Re:Why not just use a Linux distribution?

[chaoskitty]

It was a rhetorical question.

Re:Why not just use a Linux distribution?

[ninjakoala]

Amiga Inc. did not force Amithlon off the market.

What happened was that the distributor (Haage & Partner) supplied Kickstart ROM and related software for the developers Bernd Meyer and Harald Frank. It turned out that Haage & Partner were not licensed to distribute said software, so Bernd Meyer terminated his relationship with the company over breach of contract.

After this, Haage & Partner kept selling Amithlon for a considerable amount of time and lawsuits were filed against Bernd Meyer. Initially he tried developing a new version without code related to Haage & Partner and Harald Frank, but eventually dropped the project in 2002, because he was no longer interested in fighting his former partners.

While Amiga Inc. screwed up plenty of things, this was not one of them.

Re:Why not just use a Linux distribution?

[ninjakoala]

Personally I think Linux distributions are clumsy and still not user friendly. I can easily get by with using a given Linux distro (or BSD) for a desktop, but I'd hate the extra hassle that it entails.

Linux has reached the point where it's really easy to install, and often it's a smoother process to set up a Ubuntu install than a Windows install on the same hardware (supposing you don't have hardware out of the ordinary or want to use media center functionality, play back media in non-open formats etc), but once I start using it for my everyday work, I always end up spending more time figuring out solutions than getting work done - and I've used Linux and BSD on and off for about 12 years. In later years I've changed my usage pattern, so I install Linux to play around with instead of getting work done. That works for me.

MorphOS, on the other hand, installed nice and fast, and while the OS lacks a central repository (like OS4 Depot for AmigaOS 4), it's still easy enough to find software for it. Mind you, I'm not using this as my main OS either. I would use my AmigaOS 4.1 machine, if I wanted work done, but it's still a nice OS, and I've set it up so I can use it as an internet terminal in a living room. The Mac Mini is perfect for hiding away, and MorphOS boots so fast that my 3G router is online just after MorphOS has hit the desktop.

There is lots of free software (including some you are used to on Linux) and if you know your way around Amiga software, this is a great way to run it. Aminet is still full of software, and now that there are decent browsers (OWB, Sputnik), SSH software (SSHCON), nice mail clients (SimpleMail, YAM), excellent IRC clients (Wookiechat, AmIRC), graphics tools, music players and video players... really.. what more do you need for home use?

I've switched to Google Docs, so an up to date native office package is no longer a priority.

Re:Why not just use a Linux distribution?

[flnca]

Thanks!! :)

Re:Why not just use a Linux distribution?

[aliquis]

Yeah, 111 euro is sooo expensive for an OS of MorphOS level. How will I ever be able to afford such exclusivity!?!

Re:Why not just use a Linux distribution?

[aliquis]

Ubuntu PPC on a Mac G4 works just the same

Yeah, I can see that happen ...

Ever used an Amiga? Of course the experience of Ubuntu will be JUST LIKE MorphOS...

Re:Why not just use a Linux distribution?

[aliquis]

Ubuntu PPC on a Mac G4 works just the same

What are you talking about?

Do you mean Amiga Forever or any such package with emulators or AROS?

Of course you can still run an Amiga emulator or AROS.

I don't know if you can buy any emulator packet with the kickroms though, if that's what you mean.

Re:Why not just use a Linux distribution?

[aliquis]

theres no real reason to run Amiga OS for day-to-day work that can't be done with a decent Linux distro.

There's no reason to run Linux instead of Windows, Windows instead of Linux, OS X instead of Windows, Solaris instead of Debian and so on either.

So then I guess there's no purpose for any OS at all, or atleast not for more than one.

All hail MS-DOS.

Re:Why not just use a Linux distribution?

[aliquis]

... back in the days "because it could be done!" or "because the developer wanted to" was good enough reasons.

Back in the days Linux would had been crap compared to other more mature OSes, and the same thinking wouldn't had helped back then ..

The problem with Amiga is of course that you don't get that many NEW applications. But there exists a lot of applications for the real Amiga and plenty of those would run in MorphOS by JIT emulation. Add MorphOS apps and UAE (which I assume is available to.)

The best reasons would probably be out of nostalgia and pure fun/simplicity.

There is a webkit browser port for MorphOS nowadays I believe, but that's probably the only real area lacking, and you could solve that by running the browser through remote desktop. For almost everything else I assume there is awesome native applications which will not be your usual free-software alternatives but still do the job and do it good.

For instance IRC, IM, e-mail, photo- and video viewers, trackers, music-players and such.

Re:Why not just use a Linux distribution?

[flnca]

Your reply apparently went to the wrong place. ;)

Re:Why not just use a Linux distribution?

[aliquis]

As a user MorphOS would for sure be just as safe, most likely even faster and easier.

Easier depending on what you are used to though. It's always harder to learn something new than just doing what you know.

Re:Why not just use a Linux distribution?

[aliquis]

The Ben NanoNote with a native install of AmigaOS (which would had been impossible, but an AmigaOS-like OS would do to) and an IBM Thinkpad styled mouse-knob would had been so cool :D

Now it's just a poor (compared to the screaming monsters people are used to nowadays, still great compared to a 486) Linux machine for creative users, but 366 MHz and 32 MB RAM for something at the level of AmigaOS and AmigaOS applications would be plenty and make for lots of fun, creativity & features.

Re:Why not just use a Linux distribution?

[aliquis]

I think it's up to the developer to decide what they want to do with their software and work. Not much free software for OS X either, lots of very simply stuff and helpful pieces are shareware or regular commercial applications there to.

Sure I find it disturbing and most likely not worth the cost compared to say what a game would cost, on the other hand I do understand that they won't sell as many copies and if they want any money for the product then they have to charge a higher price.

Lots of shareware may have full functionality though, you should pay, but most people won't.

Re:Why not just use a Linux distribution?

[aliquis]

MorphOS isn't dead, classic AmigaOS-development would be, depending on how you look at it. Can't really say that's dead either but whatever.

No computer company behind MorphOS. But yeah, Amiga as a professionally ran organization has been dead for tens of years.

They port to the macs because they are PPC and the OS is written for PPC, and because they are cheap since they are old and people haven't got much other purpose for them.

They charge for the OS because it takes time to develop .. Feel free to volunteer all your own working hours.

Re:Why not just use a Linux distribution?

[aliquis]

Yeah, weird, I wonder how that happened.

Should had gone here:
http://apple.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1676376&cid=32471152

What I wrote as answer to this post was something like:

"Yeah I can totally see how MorphOS and Ubuntu would be JUST THE SAME!" ...

No idea how that could be messed up, copied text eventually but I can't see why I would had copied a whole post.

Re:Why not just use a Linux distribution?

[drinkypoo]

As a Linux and Windows user and former Amigan I think the idea of keeping the Amiga alive is stupid. It would have been a cool PDA OS because of the short boot time and low requirements, but the time for that was back when PDAs had less computing power than the space shuttle. I wouldn't mind seeing the concepts reused, though. Amiga was full of good ones, not least that it had a genuinely working microkernel architecture, which was a big part of its hardware autoconfiguration scheme.

Re:Why not just use a Linux distribution?

[Bing Tsher E]

And it's not even really shareware. The shareware concept originally entailed releasing fully functional software and relying on the 'honor system' that people would pay.

The time-bomb-laden or otherwise crippled junk that people deal with these days is not sharware per the philosophy that Jim Button promoted. Shovelware is a better term for it.

Re:Why not just use a Linux distribution?

[RocketRabbit]

Works the same? What if you need a professional grade Midi tracker, video editor, or photo editor?

A better CD / DVD burner? I doubt it - I have't ever run into problems with my G4 running 10.5...

And finally, the fact that you claim Linux supports more hardware checks out... at first. Sure, it supports loads of obscure hardware on most architectures, but on PPC? Are you really sure you got your morning coffee?

I know Apple bashing is fashionable around here but sheesh dude, everything you said was just flat wrong.

Re:Why not just use a Linux distribution?

[Bing Tsher E]

It's good to see an old schoole Amiga enthusiast (ahem) still stoking the pot-bellied stove.

Keep it up, if only for tradition's sake. We wouldn't want the stereotype to fade away.

Re:Why not just use a Linux distribution?

[somersault]

Likewise. I loved my Amigas, but I started accepting they were dead around 98 and we got a Windows box :/ I would have moved onto a PPC setup if I could afford it, but I was only 15. Now I can afford it, but I just don't really see the point in paying over the odds for it when Ubuntu on a cheap netbook can handle most of my requirements.

Re:Why not just use a Linux distribution?

[TheBilgeRat]

It would have been a cool PDA OS because of the short boot time and low requirements, but the time for that was back when PDAs had less computing power than the space shuttle. I wouldn't mind seeing the concepts reused, though. Amiga was full of good ones, not least that it had a genuinely working microkernel architecture, which was a big part of its hardware autoconfiguration scheme.

Well, up until early 2000's, Amigas were just fine for the Space Shuttle:

http://www.polyphoto.com/upchug/AEcastro.html

Re:Why not just use a Linux distribution?

[aliquis]

lol, everything moderated 0, flamebait + 0 troll.
Ohwell, I can handle it ;)

Greater than gcc

Ass-hat claiming random Linux distribution would be all everyone need is still moderated insightful though ;D

Amiga (or more precisely Fairlight?) rules!

... Legends never die!

Re:Why not just use a Linux distribution?

[Anonymous Coward]

It is mathematically undefined more expensive than Linux

Re:Why not just use a Linux distribution?

[thogard]

I got an email about someone wanting to know if a dos program I wrote in about 1982 would work on newer hardware because it seemed "slow". It took it a few seconds to do its thing in the dos window and I pointed out that when it was new, it took all night.

Re:Why not just use a Linux distribution?

[MBGMorden]

When you're talking about an off the wall OS with VERY limited 3rd party app support, yeah, that's through the roof. Remember - everything is relative. $5 isn't shit to me, but if someone wanted to charge $5 for a paper clip that's still expensive for the product.

In that light, 111 (which should be round-about $150) is a LOT for this product, when in reality if you're already willing to deal with the realities of using a non-mainstream OS, Linux is a far better choice. And if you want something to play around on from a "tinkerer" perspective, Haiku or Syllable are better choices.

Re:Why not just use a Linux distribution?

[David Gerard]

Dunno if it supports everything on the laptop. I know it was very nice on a G4 800Mhz. Worth a try. Setting up dual or triple boot is somewhat painful. But hey, worth a try.

Re:Why not just use a Linux distribution?

[hairyfeet]

People forget how far we have truly come. Hell my current GPU (A 4650HD with 1Gb of DDR2) which cost me a grand total of $36 is more powerful than my first FOUR PCs put together! Remember what it was like to fire up DOOM or Hexen for the first time, and marvel at being able to have real 3D? Or when the first Unreal was released? At the time I was running a P100Mhz with a brand new Voodoo, I think it had a whopping 8Mb, I know it had the old pass through for 2D support, and me and my friends just letting that demo run for a good half an hour with our jaws on the floor.

Hell nowadays folks just don't realize how truly awesome PCs are. My boys are MMOing on my "hand me down" P4s, which could easily fit my first dozen PCs CPU power and have tons left over, and those are just considered "old junkers" today. The fact that I built my latest PC for less than $600 with an AMD quad, 8Gb of DDR2, dual 500Gb HDDs, and a GB of RAM just for the GPU? Maybe I'm getting old, but I find that just blows my mind. My neighbor (a retired NASA engineer, how cool) was talking about this just the other day, and he was laughing about how they made him move his satellite display into the back of this trade show he was working in the mid 80s, because he had managed to design an accurate simulation of the satellite's motion in space, complete with a whopping 4 color day/night change, by writing damned near ASM on a "cutting edge" Commodore 128 and the people were so spellbound by seeing actual graphical displays of the tech in real time they were creating a pileup!

When folks bitch "This is slooow" because a program takes a whole 8 seconds to load, I just wish I still had one of my old 8Mhz DOS boxes, just so I could give them a taste of what slow really was!

Re:Why not just use a Linux distribution?

[thsths]

> When folks bitch "This is slooow" because a program takes a whole 8 seconds to load, I just wish I still had one of my old 8Mhz DOS boxes

It is slow. Home computers would "boot" in a split second. Turbo Pascal 3.0 took maybe 5 seconds to load from floppy disk, and then it was lightning fast. Modern development environments are dead slow by comparison. Those were the good old efficient 8 bit days, when bloat was not generally tolerated.

Re:Why not just use a Linux distribution?

[sznupi]

High quality like Mozilla Firefox?

Re:Why not just use a Linux distribution?

[sznupi]

Unreal still looks damn nice, hmm (especially old ruins filled with water kind of stuff) - I guess it just shows it's a also a lot about texture / artist side of things.

But anyway, I think folks were saying the same thing with electronic calculators vs. mechanical ones using help of electric motor; the latter vs. those with hand crank; trains vs. buggies; steamships vs. ...well, you get the idea.

Our medicine is quite primitive, we'll probably see another "why do people don't appreciate what they have compared with that savage past?" here (and in ways we can't quite imagine, even dismissed by many); or with driverless modes of transport blending public & private (and with better energy transfer technologies to boot)

Re:Why not just use a Linux distribution?

[sznupi]

I can a lot bigger problem with that lathe glooming - finding old PC is easy, imaging HDD contents likewise; but what about that ISA card?

Anyway, "those beige boxes were fugly, but they were built like tanks" is IMHO a combination of nostalgia and selection bias (you see only those which survived to our times)

Is this an ad?

[Chelmet]

This is quite clearly a sales pitch - am I the only reader left thinking, 'well so what'?

Its all well and good keeping old computers running (providing the OS is secure enough), but I for one feel that this is neither news for nerds, nor stuff that matters.

And I'm not even clicking the link to vindicate the posting, click-through-wise.

Re:Is this an ad?

[sznupi]

This OS is one of the ways Amiga zombie tries to stay undead; stuff quite a bit for nerds, I'd say.

Re:Is this an ad?

[DannyO152]

I looked at the summary, was wondering what's the advantage over TerraSoft's YDL, the os formerly known as Yellow Dog Linux.

When I saw the 30 minute limit thing, I realized clearly what was the disadvantage compared to YDL.

Re:Is this an ad?

[noidentity]

If it's an ad, it sure does a bad job, because I'm like "registration key, oh, this isn't open-source or anything, just another proprietary OS. I might as well continue using Mac OS 9."

Re:Is this an ad?

[confused one]

Be better off using a version of Mac OS X that runs on PPC.

Re:Is this an ad?

[Tom9729]

I have a 700mhz eMac machine (768mb ram, GeForce 2) and OS X Tiger runs fine on it. :)

Re:Is this an ad?

[Nyder]

This is quite clearly a sales pitch - am I the only reader left thinking, 'well so what'?

Its all well and good keeping old computers running (providing the OS is secure enough), but I for one feel that this is neither news for nerds, nor stuff that matters.

And I'm not even clicking the link to vindicate the posting, click-through-wise.

Old computers are appreciated by nerds. If you were really one, you'd understand that, even if you weren't into old computers.

slashvertisement

[bcrowell]

This "story" is an ad, with promotional language in the slashdot summary like "available for a limited period." The OS isn't open source. Looks like someone knows how to game the firehose.

Re:slashvertisement

[ithyus]

Well, if it is it's kind of amusing. The /. community is all about tinkering with toys both old and new. But if we're going to revive an old machine for the purposes of tinkering, we're not going to pay money to do it. Seriously, most of us live in our mom's basements (or should probably be stored there for the benefit of society). Do you really think we have money laying around?

Re:slashvertisement

[cupantae]

To be fair, open source is by no means a requirement for something to be story-worthy. It seems that most of the computer stories these days are about Apple products, which are rarely open source.

Also, the Linux/BSD release "stories" are usually far more enthusiastic (or advertising) than this, even if the company that releases it aims to make a profit. I say this as a Linux fanboy, by the way...

Re:slashvertisement

[icebraining]

He said nothing about it being paid. He talked about it not being open source - and yes, that's important for the purposes of tinkering.

Re:slashvertisement

[Bert64]

Apple products are more open source than morphos, and they don't intentionally cripple themselves after 30 minutes (i think even microsoft is more generous than that with suspected pirate copies)...

Re:slashvertisement

[sznupi]

Apple products are more open source than morphos

Ehhh?
http://morphosambient.sourceforge.net/

And FFS, it's not "crippling suspected pirate copies", it's a trial; quite adequate (you can restart, you know...) to determine if you want to get the thing.

Re:slashvertisement

[sznupi]

http://morphosambient.sourceforge.net/

Re:slashvertisement

[Bert64]

Having to restart every 30 minutes is far from adequate and gives you no ability to test the long term stability...

MS gives you 180 days on their trial versions - a lot more useful than 30 minutes!

I remember the trial TCP stacks on amigaos - had the same issue, disconnected you after 30 minutes... On a slow dialup, 30 minutes wasn't enough to download anything (like another tcp stack without such limitations).

Incidentally, for those of us with old amigas, its no longer possible to register any of this software... you can download the trials, but they're useless 30 minute affairs with no way to legitimately get a full version... finding a cracked copy (and thats not very easy either) is the only option. I have an A4000 and an A3000 sitting around somewhere.

Re:slashvertisement

[sznupi]

180 days is far from adequate and gives you no ability to test the long term accumulation of crud in the OS...

Re:slashvertisement

[Aladrin]

Yeah, it's the same crappy tactics that all the 'free download' sites use. Sure, it's a free download... But you have to pay for the software.

Re:slashvertisement

[Jeremi]

On a slow dialup, 30 minutes wasn't enough to download anything (like another tcp stack without such limitations.

Probably that was deliberate...

Re:slashvertisement

[MrHanky]

This is apple.slashdot.org. Does something ever get posted here that isn't an ad?

Re:Is there a market for this?

[Saeed al-Sahaf]

111 Euros means about $2000 in US dollars because of the weak US currency.

111 Euro is $132.82, not anywhere near $2000. Right now, the Euro to US$ conversion is very good due to the general state of the European economy.

Re:Is there a market for this?

[cupantae]

Why pay for this OS which is likely worth more than the Mac it is running on

It's worth more? Why, that's a great reason to use it!

111 Euros?

[grahamsaa]

Seems like a bit much for a very limited operating system that only works on PPC architecture. Can anyone explain why this would be attractive at that price?

Re:111 Euros?

[AdmV0rl0n]

MorphOS is in relative terms 'Amiga' alike and can run older Amiga programs with a JIT emulator at great speed in comparison to older Amiga based systems.

So, for anyone who had an interest, what this offers is basically a faster Amiga, modernised quite a bit, and with more resources.

In this, there is a large library of software and so on that is around from the time Amiga's were in wider use, and for anyone who has an old Amiga thats on deaths door, this offers one modern way forward.

You can do similar things with WinUAE or UAE, however, emulation is all well and good, but having real hardware and modernised software is always one good avenue.

Lastly, its a single user, exec alike OS, so its fast in terms of look and feel, on a level that more modern OSs cannot match. Off course, its actually raw processing power is only whatever the cpu's offer, so it tends to only be look and feel in nature.

Re:111 Euros?

[sznupi]

That's quite a bargain considering prices of many things with which amigans kept their nostalgia alive over the last decade+

Re:111 Euros?

[Darkness404]

But how would it be worth $130+? Having an Amiga is all good an well but its a very dead platform. If this was freeware or better yet F/OSS it would be great. But for $130 I can buy a second hand x86 desktop, buy a used Amiga or just upgrade OS X/the hardware to Leopard.

If I really wanted a weekend project, why would I pay $130 for it? Amiga or MorphOS will never reach the same level of usability as Linux or OS X so why pay tons for an OS that is worthless?

Re:111 Euros?

[sznupi]

It doesn't run anything which depends on those great custom Amiga chips though, only the "OS level" software. Not without UAE at least...but it doesn't really make a difference where you run the latter.

There was even better option a long time ago, Amithlon (probably quite a bit faster, to). I suspect there were not only merely problems with IP, but also somebody, at the time, thought that Amithlon doesn't provide enough opportunities to milk small fanbase out of their cash...

Re:111 Euros?

[Bert64]

Would anyone seriously use this for anything more than the odd nostalgia kick?
If this was free i might consider installing it and might use it once in a blue moon, but it certainly isn't worth 111 euros..

If i want to play with old Amiga software, i can install UAE and while i don't doubt MorphOS has some very efficient emulation code the fact that it only runs on fairly obsolete processors nullifies that advantage.

Modern Amiga software really has very little appeal, a lot of it consists of ports of open source apps (eg they got a webkit based browser quite recently) which are always several years behind the more mainstream ports.

Re:111 Euros?

[sznupi]

Webkit isn't a browser, you know; it's an engine. They recently built a browser around Webkit which has very Amiga-like feel - that's a bit more accurate. Most/all software they use on MorphOS has that feel. "Fairly obsolete processors" notwithstanding. Doing it via UAE apparently doesn't quite cut it for its users...

Re:111 Euros?

[ifeelswine]

[quote]Seems like a bit much for a very limited operating system that only works on PPC architecture. Can anyone explain why this would be attractive at that price?[/quote] ok, I will do my best. Since the bankruptcy of Commodore, I never feel truly happy nor do I ever feel truly happy. I feel like I am going through the motions of life, numb to the monochromatic monophonic realities of life. It is like the people who went to see avatar and could not bear to not live in idyllic Pandora. I remember the first time I saw an Amiga, back in 85 or so. 4,096 colors, multtasking, stereo sound. Even in 2010 now computer has matched the Amiga's ability. My PC still beeps like an apple 2 when I turn it on, I cannot format two floppy disks at the same time, and the pc's audio does not connect to my home stereo. The promise of reigniting the amiga flame, bringing my back to 1985, is a siren song to me and others like me. I have purchased not one but two licenses even though I only have one PPC mac.. I might find another one at the goodwill or something, you never know. but just incase i do I have the license already. I will always purchase one more license than I have physical hardware for this reason. If morphos falls short of the glory of amiga, then I am going to take up crystal meth. At least I will not be held to the whim of a bahamian corporation for the rest of my living years.

Buy a new computer for that price...

[Darkness404]

For $150-ish dollars the same price as the OS, you could easily buy a cheap, second-hand x86 computer and do more. Or heck, why not just get PPC versions of Linux?

Unless MorphOS has some killer feature like the ability to emulate Windows perfectly, or something that Linux doesn't have, I'm not seeing the point in wasting hundreds of dollars on software that nothing really runs on.

Re:Buy a new computer for that price...

[sznupi]

It has killer feature of emulating the Amiga experience (there's your something that Linux have...), that's enough for its intended audience.

Amiga?

[PhunkySchtuff]

Now, I'm not trying to troll here and I genuinely loved the Amiga, back in the day, but why on earth would anyone want to run an Amiga-compatible OS these days?

Can the modern Amiga OS run old Amiga software? Could I really fire up my old copy of Alien Breed, Titus the Fox or some of the old mega demos?

What can you do on an Amiga compatible OS that can't be done more easily and cheaply with, say, Linux or even OS X? I'm asking this because I'm genuinely interested...

Re:Amiga?

[sznupi]

Can the modern Amiga OS run old Amiga software?
Yes, that's the point of MorphOS... (though if it doesn't run on a machine with custom Amiga chips (zombie "1200" with PPC accelerator for example), then the software depending on that chips won't run)

What can you do on an Amiga compatible OS that can't be done more easily and cheaply with, say, Linux or even OS X? I'm asking this because I'm genuinely interested...
Having Amiga-like experience. Is that so hard to guess?...

Re:Amiga?

[flnca]

Yup, both MorphOS and AmigaOS 4 (and perhaps AROS) have 68k emulation layers to run legacy AmigaOS 1.x-3.x software. :) But for some old software, you can fire up an Amiga emulator like UAE as well ... it's only when you want to run the software more or less natively that you need one of those OSes. Speed-wise, these OSes still outperform other OSes running on the same hardware ... but if it's really worth the investment, that's a good question. The user interface is still more or less the same, promising you the same ages-old user experience! ;)

Re:Amiga?

[flnca]

I just read that you'll still need UAE on those OSes if you want to run applications that were accessing the old Amiga hardware directly (like most games or demos). So, perhaps the best solution for you would be to run UAE or WinUAE. There's a nice (commercial) software package called AmigaForever from Cloanto that runs on Windows. But if you have the ROM images and OS disks, you can use the free versions of UAE on Linux or WinUAE as well.

Re:Amiga?

[PhunkySchtuff]

What can you do on an Amiga compatible OS that can't be done more easily and cheaply with, say, Linux or even OS X? I'm asking this because I'm genuinely interested...
Having Amiga-like experience. Is that so hard to guess?...

Yes, and what can you do with an Amiga-like experience (come on, the GUI, while it was innovative for it's time has nothing on Windows 7 or OS X) that can't be done more easily with a modern OS. If you're the kind of person that knows Workbench back-to-front and inside-out, and haven't learnt anything else in the intervening 15-odd years, then I'm sorry, but it's time to move on ^_^

Is there any Amiga-only software that is worth running today that doesn't depend on the custom hardware in the Amiga, is there any software that does anything useful that hasn't been ported or replicated on another platform?

Re:Amiga?

[sznupi]

Apparently some people still like it... (while certainly having lots of experience in other OSes, you can't really avoid it nowadays) ...who are you to judge they must be wrong?

Re:Amiga?

[aliquis]

System friendly applications will run through JIT emulation, and you also got some native apps.

For the less friendly things you'll have to run complete machine emulation such as UAE.

For instance I assume YAM just work, but through emulation:
http://trac.yam.ch/

OWB would most likely run native:
http://fabportnawak.free.fr/owb/
http://charlie.amigaspirit.hu/screenshots/macmini/mini-MorphOS-OWB-1.8-teaser.mov

Hey, it plays videos from Youtube! More capable than iPad? ...

Here you've got Project X running in E-UAE in MorphOS:
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xd0zzh_uae-in-ambient_videogames

Re:Amiga?

[aliquis]

Is there any Amiga-only software that is worth running today that doesn't depend on the custom hardware in the Amiga, is there any software that does anything useful that hasn't been ported or replicated on another platform?

Probably a lot of things which gets the work done but with none of the bloat of modern software.

Re:Amiga?

[Bing Tsher E]

You mean like using MS Office 4.3 (on Windows 95 OSR-2) on the 486 laptop I got off Craigs List a few weeks ago?

I gave the guy $5 for it, which was more of a courtesy tip for actually listing it and not just shitcanning it. It didn't cost me 111 euros.

There's a lot of productive use for old stuff. But wringing value out of it is a totally different thing than trying to revive further development of it as something new.

Re:Amiga?

[aliquis]

You mean like using MS Office 4.3 (on Windows 95 OSR-2) on the 486 laptop

Actually: YES.

Re:Amiga?

[konohitowa]

Having Amiga-like experience. Is that so hard to guess?...

Wouldn't it be simpler and cheaper to just install an app that pops up a GURU Meditation error randomly and then fools you into thinking you can recover from it before forcing you to reboot the system?

Re:Amiga?

[sznupi]

Well, bluescreens or kernel panics & X crashes might shatter the illusion...

Re:Amiga?

[konohitowa]

Ah... so the 111 Euro is all for the sake of the illusion.

Re:Amiga?

[sznupi]

Well, no, it's when you get the Real Thing(tm); that's the point.

Re:Amiga?

[konohitowa]

It comes with a real Copper and a real Blitter to code to? Awesome. That's a pretty good deal then. They're pretty much the only thing I really miss about my Amiga. Where do they plug in?

Re:Amiga?

[sznupi]

It is what it says it is.

Re:Amiga?

[konohitowa]

So no. Not the Real Experience (TM). And still 111 Euro. That's a bummer.

Re:Amiga?

[sznupi]

Of course yes. Those who get it think so, apparently OS & OS-level apps is the part they care about here (though MorphOS can be run on, say, zombie A1200 with PPC accelerator), and why would you say they're wrong or why would you even care?

Re:Amiga?

[konohitowa]

Well, this started out as what I thought would be obvious humor (GURU Meditation errors) in response to having the "real" Amiga experience. I honestly assumed I was going to get either a "funny" mod, or else someone would have told me to install GOMF (currently definition 2) to counteract the facetious app.

It would seem that you thought I was attacking you. Honestly, I was just being what I thought was funny. I probably shouldn't have carried it so far, but when it comes down to it, €111 is a ridiculous amount of money to pay just to run some Amiga software on my old Quadra. So I carried it on far too long.

I've programmed on the PET series, the VIC-20, the C-64, and various Amigas. The Amiga was, by far, the best of the bunch. I suppose I could go dig up details, but I as I recall Jack Tramiel from Atari was responsible for the awesome hardware set that the 68k Amiga had at the time. Unfortunately, the software sucked rocks. Not because they had the wrong idea, but because they had a piss poor implementation. As urban legend would have it, the company that was hired to build the Workbench (or was it Kickstart?) actually lost the source code and they were stuck with the binary for far too long. And Jack, sadly, didn't pony up for an MMU in the design. Hence the ubiquitous GURU Meditation errors. However, that aside, the interleaved access to memory via the 68k and the Blitter, as well as having a graphics coprocessor (the Copper) to coordinate the show, made the Amiga a joy to program for. I had a great time. I programmed in a a lot of assembler. I was an early adopter of QuickBasic. I even experimented with Forth (notwithstanding Tony Farmer's review of it for the Amiga claiming that Forth was the "...Porsche of languages amongst Fords and Chevys...")

However, time goes by. I already have Unix (OS X) on my current PPC Macs. And my old PPC Macs, while having the option of MacOS (not my favorite system), can still run Linux if I want. I just don't see the point in shelling out $132 USD for a nostalgic experience. Particularly when my best memories were back in the 68k days.

So, to summarize: peace, love, and rockets.

Re:Amiga?

[sznupi]

IC, so you came to conlusion that I have no sense of humor in failing to notice your effort at it, while at the same time you missed inherently non-serious tone in the direct response; one about bsods, kernel panics and X crashes.

Sure, Amiga wasn't perfect (MorphOS is quite a bit more stable though, supposedly); still was probably the best thing for a long time, at least when looking at machines of reasonable cost. And the faults didn't seem to stop it from being used for reasonably serious stuff - kickstarting consumer video editing, image editing, CGI; even NASA utilised them for some Shuttle telemetry. If some people value the overall characteristics of its software, so be it...

BTW, if you still have some warm place for Forth, you might check out Jupiter Ace.

Re:Amiga?

[konohitowa]

Actually, I had no opinion one way or another about your particular sense of humor. Until this last post. Really. Lighten up Frances.

Re:Amiga?

[sznupi]

Hey, if the last one was what it takes, instead of just the one about bsods/kernel panics/X crashes that happen so often as to destroy the illusion of guru meditations... ;p

obligatory lmgtfy

[rduke15]

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=111+EUR+in+USD

Bumer it doesn't support G3 Macs ...

[SickLittleMonkey]

Then again, it's closed source, pricey and runs Amiga apps.
Any suggestions for Linux on G3?

Re:Bumer it doesn't support G3 Macs ...

[acsinc]

yellowdog http://www.yellowdoglinux.com/

Re:Bumer it doesn't support G3 Macs ...

[Bing Tsher E]

I run NetBSD on some G3 iMacs. The huge ports collection (pkgsrc) keeps them quite useful. Almost all the current open source packages run fine.

Re:Bumer it doesn't support G3 Macs ...

[SickLittleMonkey]

Thanks, but they dropped G3 support.

Re:WTF??? Why bother?

[pipatron]

And it won't make us Amitards happy either, because like.. it doesn't really run on any Amiga with relevance.

15" PowerBook G4 with 512 MB of RAM?

[antdude]

I have an old 15" PowerBook G4 with 512 MB of RAM, dial-up, WEP wireless, etc.

What runs well on it since its Mac OS X 10.2.8 and softwares are outdated these days.

Re:15" PowerBook G4 with 512 MB of RAM?

[flnca]

Check and see if MorphOS supports the hardware (it would run very fast on that) ... if it doesn't, try Linux (like Ubuntu or Debian) with XFCE or LXDE desktop. :)

Re:15" PowerBook G4 with 512 MB of RAM?

[yyr]

Mac OS X Tiger (10.4) should run well on your PowerBook G4.

Re:15" PowerBook G4 with 512 MB of RAM?

[antdude]

Better than 10.2.8 with 512 MB of RAM? It's already slow enough. I am afraid to upgrade to make things even slower. :(

Are they that rich?

[Ilgaz]

So, poor (!) Xerox, IBM, Microsoft has to buy (possibly bid) ads from huge ad networks to show ads on /. but some no name, fantasy OS company can buy stories.

That is what you mean right?

Debian, Gentoo, Ubuntu and even Fedora

[OrangeTide]

Those all run great. I still run an fairly old version of Ubuntu on my B&W G3 tower. I have OSX 10.3 on it too and it runs okay, but Linux runs circles around the thing. Gentoo is a better choice for PPC these days because the ports.ubuntu.com stuff is not as well supported as the standard ubuntu stuff, back when I install the PPC version it was one of the main supported architecture for ubuntu. There is even Fedora Core for PPC, it's a little tricky to install but once it is on there it runs like a champ.

But really all you need is some Linux distro that you like that also supports PPC, X11 and all that runs very nicely on PowerPC, and Linux tends to scale to the low end better than OSX and Windows so you'll have a pretty comfortable experience. I have a 1.6Ghz Atom and an 800MHz G3 (got an overclock chip in it) both running Ubuntu with some 2D video acceleration going on (ATI Rage128 in the G3, GMA950 in the Atom) and the G3 feels quite a bit snappier. And the load times when I ran a stop watch was 10% faster for the small apps and 20% slower for the big ones, I don't like waiting for a simple Xterm to load so it's worth it to me. I don't really run OpenOffice or the GIMP that much on a low end system anyways.

You can usually pick up a Powermac B&W G3 in the paper or local shop for around $50. The built-in IDE controller has issues with anything bigger than a 120GB device. But there are PCI slots and it is possible to boot off them if you pick the right controller. I have a SATA card in mine and just boot off a 40GB drive and mount two 1TB SATA drives for storage. There is a G4 500MHz upgrade for the old B&W but it's not worth it, there is a 1GHz G3 upgrade for about the same price which is a much better deal as it is faster and more stable than a G4 in that system.

Re:Debian, Gentoo, Ubuntu and even Fedora

[SickLittleMonkey]

Thanks a lot for the info.
This is for the wife's iBook G3, but a quick google around found only marginal success with Ubuntu.
Maybe Gentoo then ...

Gee, all these nice replies but no mods - weird ... thanks guys!

Re:WTF??? Why bother?

[LoadWB]

Which would be? And relevant to what?

I missed out on the thread about what it means to be a "real" Amiga. I think I will have to find it on AO and have a read.

I recently acquired a G4 MacMini and installed MorphOS 2.4. I am pretty pleased with its operation, especially how quickly USB devices are recognized and mass storage devices get mounted (excellent work, Chris, thank you!) There is a nice selection of software -- free, shareware, and commercial -- out there for the various Amiga-oid platforms. And the native compatibility with OS3 (68k) software is a great benefit.

Why use it rather than Linux? Because it IS NOT Linux.

How did all these damned mosquitoes get into my house?!!

OS X 10.5.x upgrade on my G4 PowerBook killed it.

[crovira]

I now have an expensive TiTanium slab that boots to a DOS prompt but NO GUI.

I'd be plenty pissed off if I didn't have other hardware available. As it is, I'm merely peeved.

OS X 10.5.x is the end of the line for Apple's support of the PPC anyway.(I thought development on Ubuntu PPC was stopped a few years ago.)

If you know of somewhere I can download Linux for PPC I'd appreciate an email charles [at] msbpodcast.com

This is not news...it is an ad!

[hackel]

Seriously, why would anyone pay to use this limited garbage when they can install a full-featured Linux distribution for free?

Re:OS X 10.5.x upgrade on my G4 PowerBook killed i

[Kadin2048]

Ubuntu on PPC is "community supported" as opposed to officially supported by Canonical. I'm not sure that it makes that much difference in practice; I suspect that many of the fixes that you'd care about are applied to upstream (the Linux kernel) and end up working on both platforms equally well.

You can get it here:
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PowerPCDownloads

Alternately you can install plain-Jane Debian instead of Ubuntu, which is supported on PPC to the same extent as it is supported on any other platform. Arguably this is equal to Ubuntu's "community support," but if it helps to not feel like you're on a second-tier platform, that might be the route to go.