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The Apple Broadcast Network

Hodejo1 writes "In 1959 5,749,000 television sets were sold in the US, bringing the cumulative total of sets sold since 1950 to 63,542,128 units. This number supported, through advertising, three national television networks, ABC, NBC, and CBS (a fourth, Dumont, folded in 1956) and numerous local independent stations. Now here are another set of numbers. As of April this year Apple sold 75 million iPhone and iPod touch units, devices capable of delivering video via Wi-Fi and 3G connectivity. Add to that figure 2 million iPads and counting. By the end of the year Apple should have about 90 million smart mobile devices in the wild. That makes a proprietary amalgam greater than what the TV networks had in 1959 and one that easily serves as a foundation for a pending broadcast network that will be delivered not through tall radio towers, but through small wireless hubs and the Internet. Call it the Apple Broadcast Network. iAd is how Apple plans to pay for it."

190 comments

  1. How they plan to pay for it? by ravenspear · · Score: 4, Insightful

    They've already "paid for it" with the bucketloads of cash they've made from selling all the devices.

    1. Re:How they plan to pay for it? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Using my rough calculations, with $100 bills, $900 million is about 1 cubic meter in volume. Apple makes about $8 billion in profit per year. 1 bucket (unit) is 0.01818 m^3. This is about 480 bucketloads of cash (roughly 80 tonnes). Really, at this scale they should be thinking of using barrels or truckloads to move their cash. Even a pipeline would be more feasible than buckets.

    2. Re:How they plan to pay for it? by Squeeonline · · Score: 1

      mod parent up. They spent the time working that out. Deserves more than a 0.

    3. Re:How they plan to pay for it? by FatdogHaiku · · Score: 1

      At about 1 gram per bill, that's in the neighborhood of 10 tons (US) of cash... I'd like to live in that neighborhood...

      --
      You have the right to remain sentient. If you give up the right to remain sentient, you will be elected to public office
    4. Re:How they plan to pay for it? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Better yet, get a barrel full of girlfriends.

    5. Re:How they plan to pay for it? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wednesdays are your turn in the barrel.

    6. Re:How they plan to pay for it? by w0mprat · · Score: 1

      The unit you should be using is one metric asston. Mathematically speaking all non-zero integers of bucketloads, truckloads or shitloads always equal one metric asston and gets the point across.

      --
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    7. Re:How they plan to pay for it? by Hatta · · Score: 1

      This is about 480 bucketloads of cash (roughly 80 tonnes). Really, at this scale they should be thinking of using barrels or truckloads to move their cash

      How do you think they fill the barrels, genius?

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      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    8. Re:How they plan to pay for it? by Gilmoure · · Score: 1

      What's the relation between Metric Asston and Imperial Buttload?

      --
      I drank what? -- Socrates
  2. Do not need. Do not want. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Interesting

    Apple has nothing to say that I find worth hearing. Apple has nothing to show that I find worth seeing.

    1. Re:Do not need. Do not want. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Apple has nothing to say that I find worth hearing. Apple has nothing to show that I find worth seeing.

      Remember, if you say you like Apple and express interest in their products and services, you are just giving an opinion.

      If you say in a non-inflammatory way that you don't like Apple and do not have an interest in their products and services, why then you are "-1, Flamebait".

      Yup, nothing hypocritical about that, mods.

    2. Re:Do not need. Do not want. by causality · · Score: 1

      Apple has nothing to say that I find worth hearing. Apple has nothing to show that I find worth seeing.

      Remember, if you say you like Apple and express interest in their products and services, you are just giving an opinion. If you say in a non-inflammatory way that you don't like Apple and do not have an interest in their products and services, why then you are "-1, Flamebait". Yup, nothing hypocritical about that, mods.

      I agree with parent, so mod me down too. You know you wanna.

      --
      It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. - Einstein
    3. Re:Do not need. Do not want. by icebike · · Score: 1

      mod parent up.

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    4. Re:Do not need. Do not want. by JustOK · · Score: 1

      mod sister sideways!

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      rewriting history since 2109
    5. Re:Do not need. Do not want. by node+3 · · Score: 3, Informative

      If you say in a non-inflammatory way that you don't like Apple and do not have an interest in their products and services, why then you are "-1, Flamebait".

      That also applies if you say something in favor of the App Store, or the iPhone in general in comparison to Android. Or anything negative about Android.

      In other words, welcome to the Internet, where if you say anything that someone disagrees with, you run the risk of -1 Flamebait/Troll.

      As for the OP AC, his post is flamebait/troll. His post, in its entirety is:

      Subj: Do not need. Do not want.
      Body: Apple has nothing to say that I find worth hearing. Apple has nothing to show that I find worth seeing.

      No real content other than, "I hate Apple." Flamebait/Troll would apply to pretty much any topic with such a post. Android, Google, Microsoft, Linux, you name it. Maybe about BP it would get a pass...

    6. Re:Do not need. Do not want. by mister_playboy · · Score: 1

      I agree with parent, so mod me down too. You know you wanna.

      --
      Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law ::: Love is the law, love under will
    7. Re:Do not need. Do not want. by indi0144 · · Score: 1

      I agree with parent, so mod me down too. You know you wanna.

    8. Re:Do not need. Do not want. by Gilmoure · · Score: 1

      I do not like the number '6'.

      --
      I drank what? -- Socrates
  3. Video over 3G? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Not anymore!

  4. Over what bandwidth? by tftp · · Score: 4, Interesting

    s of April this year Apple sold 75 million iPhone and iPod touch units, devices capable of delivering video via Wi-Fi and 3G connectivity.

    The 3G connectivity is not sufficient for watching video in volume comparable to TV. TV bandwidth is essentially free (a true one-to-many broadcast,) whereas 3G is not (it's limited and shared.)

    Even the Wi-Fi connectivity is lacking in many cities, let alone countryside. I think we are a good decade away from being able to depend on our Internet links for reliable, always-on TV viewing.

    1. Re:Over what bandwidth? by dmacleod808 · · Score: 1

      Well said... AT&T's new tiered 3G plans will kill this easily... I can watch unlimited Television for free (broadcast networks of course).

      --
      There Can Be Only One...
    2. Re:Over what bandwidth? by fredmosby · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I haven't watched 'traditional' television since I discovered hulu.com and bought a computer to drive my HDTV. I can't believe I used to be willing to make an appointment to watch a TV show.

      I agree about the 3G though. Cell phone networks have been slow to realize that they need to develop a high speed high bandwidth data only network and deploy it everywhere.

    3. Re:Over what bandwidth? by mlts · · Score: 2, Interesting

      With net neutrality not an issue, I wonder if AT&T will have its arm twisted into giving "free" passage to any Apple specified content where it doesn't contribute to the cap, while anything from Hulu, YouTube, and other places get charged the metered rates. This way, users end up going to Apple's content because it doesn't cost them anything.

    4. Re:Over what bandwidth? by tftp · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Cell phone networks have been slow to realize that they need to develop a high speed high bandwidth data only network and deploy it everywhere.

      Laws of physics may be against them. If each handset consumes 10 Mbps (10^7 bps) (which is about half of what broadcast digital TV uses - 19+ Mbps) and if you have 10,000 (10^4) viewers in service area of each cell site then you need roughly (10^4 * 10^7) = 10^11 bps. If we assume s/n = 20 dB that requires 10^11 / 6.65 = 11.5 * 10^9 Hz, or about 12 GHz of bandwidth. That can't be done on a carrier that is around 2 GHz! Variations of multicasting could be used to reduce that number somewhat, but it's a lot in any case, even if you reduce the bit rate at the client. At best you could achieve some mediocre reliability of a small picture for a limited number of clients. You can't get to the target bit rate without going into millimeter wave, and that isn't going to work due to poor penetration of buildings. And the root cause of all that trouble is that indeed "never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon loaded with magnetic tapes." Broadcast TV delivers an incredible amount of bits per second, even though each client gets exactly the same bits as any other client.

    5. Re:Over what bandwidth? by causality · · Score: 3, Insightful

      With net neutrality not an issue, I wonder if AT&T will have its arm twisted into giving "free" passage to any Apple specified content where it doesn't contribute to the cap, while anything from Hulu, YouTube, and other places get charged the metered rates. This way, users end up going to Apple's content because it doesn't cost them anything.

      If Apple resorts to this, then that'd be a great reason to avoid Apple's content at all costs as a form of protest against a business practice that needs to be nipped in the bud and discouraged as early in the game as possible. I'm not saying the sheeple will do that, as they are not generally known for considering the full implications of their actions i.e. whether they are encouraging a business practice that is not in their interests. I'm just saying that it's a great reason independent of whether they are capable of appreciating and acting on it.

      --
      It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. - Einstein
    6. Re:Over what bandwidth? by gig · · Score: 1

      No, it wouldn't be simultaneous. Nor will it be in black and white or feature ads for cigarettes.

    7. Re:Over what bandwidth? by FuckingNickName · · Score: 4, Interesting

      As a radio ham and general "get off my lawn!" sort of person, I still feel guilty when I catch up to some TV programme online. There's something very wasteful (at an instant) about using a one-to-one link for what should have been multicast/broadcast.

      It's really weird to see more recently arrived 'net users not even stop to contemplate bandwidth allocation. Or throw away food or packaging. The trend's reversing, but at a snail's pace. We can assume there is an infinite amount of sunlight (beyond Earth) - anything else is something we're quite fortunate to have right now.

    8. Re:Over what bandwidth? by tftp · · Score: 1

      No, it wouldn't be simultaneous.

      That's just too bad because TV consumption has well defined highs and lows. Think of a major football game, for example.

    9. Re:Over what bandwidth? by jollyreaper · · Score: 1

      s of April this year Apple sold 75 million iPhone and iPod touch units, devices capable of delivering video via Wi-Fi and 3G connectivity.

      The 3G connectivity is not sufficient for watching video in volume comparable to TV. TV bandwidth is essentially free (a true one-to-many broadcast,) whereas 3G is not (it's limited and shared.)

      Even the Wi-Fi connectivity is lacking in many cities, let alone countryside. I think we are a good decade away from being able to depend on our Internet links for reliable, always-on TV viewing.

      For "live" tv no, it's insufficient. For cached TV, it works fine. My ipod can download podcasts at whatever speed it can manage and I watch when it's done. It wouldn't take too much more effort for Apple to put automatic downloading into the operating system on the phones/pods. On my Mac, I run Miro and it downloads automatically without me asking a damn thing. Same with itunes itself. But since the units are so powerful these days and have so much space, needing to go back to home base for automatic downloads or having to manually trigger downloads is annoying and could be easily remedied.

      --
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    10. Re:Over what bandwidth? by AHuxley · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Well they could have used an idea like Digital Multimedia Broadcasting
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Multimedia_Broadcasting
      But now seem to only have the option to push data on closed networks rather than satellite or terrestrial transmission like radio or TV.
      Could US telco networks be opened to all, a new 'broadcast' standard is offered or the US public is herded into brand only walled media subscriptions?
      The US telcos feeling data use, bandwidth upgrades and pricing is clear.
      Apple and telco $$$ time for all :)

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    11. Re:Over what bandwidth? by Vellmont · · Score: 4, Interesting


      If each handset consumes 10 Mbps (10^7 bps)

      Straight off, you're off by a factor of 10. Streaming video can quite easily be compressed down to 1 Mb/second corresponding to about the quality of SDTV. Since you'd only then require 1/10th of the bandwidth, that means only 1.2 ghz.

      --
      AccountKiller
    12. Re:Over what bandwidth? by fermion · · Score: 1
      Exactly, this is why a broadcast model does not apply. As the parent says, Broadcast has a fixed cost, the transmission towers, but it costs essentially the same to transmit to one viewer as it does to 1 million, within a geographical area that is. Cable has fixed costs to get the signal to a customer, but then the recurring costs for infrastructure are minimal. In both cases the issue, I suppose, to get enough viewers to cover the fixed costs, and then the rest is profit. The more customers the better.

      Of course with content delivered over the internet there are many recurring customers costs. There is the cost of delivering the signal, and capacity must be added as customers increase. The content provider must build capacity for maximum viewership, and let excess capacity stand idle for most of the time. The infrastructure to deliver the content to the user is owned by third parties and paid for by the person receiving the content. The third party prices internet access based on assumptions that the customer is not going use it that much, and when the do, as in the case of iPhone, has to re price to limit the use.

      So, what we are looking at is a system that may or may not be able to handle 42 million people watching to find out who shot J.R. I can tell you Hulu cannot handle the viewers it has now. Netflix does a much better job, but it does such on the iPad, so there is room for improvement. I am just not sure how Apple is going to do this. It takes me well over an hour to download a 40 minute show in standard def from iTunes. Apple does not seem to be set up to deliver real time content.

      --
      "She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
    13. Re:Over what bandwidth? by vlueboy · · Score: 1

      I can watch unlimited Television for free (broadcast networks of course).

      Aaaand... without the constant buffering, or even compression-related visual artifacts you get on streams or even crappy cable TV.

    14. Re:Over what bandwidth? by vlueboy · · Score: 1

      Even the Wi-Fi connectivity is lacking in many cities, let alone countryside. I think we are a good decade away from being able to depend on our Internet links for reliable, always-on TV viewing.

      Hey, isn't 10 years the deadline we heard a month ago, where the US government plans to move broadband minimums to 100Mbps?

      I have a bad feeling about current capping trends and these forced bandwidth increases. Don't get me wrong, I know grandmothers who only read e-mails and maybe follow a youtube link.

      The problem will be every media provider upping their stream minimum to HD or Blueray resolutions in the next ten years, without an appropriate cap re-evaluation on the billing side of the equation. Grandma won't know just how fast her new 100MB pipe is chugging along against her non-increasing cap.

    15. Re:Over what bandwidth? by ChiRaven · · Score: 1

      I haven't watched 'traditional' television since I discovered hulu.com and bought a computer to drive my HDTV. I can't believe I used to be willing to make an appointment to watch a TV show. I agree about the 3G though. Cell phone networks have been slow to realize that they need to develop a high speed high bandwidth data only network and deploy it everywhere.

      It's not so much that they haven't REALIZED it, it's just that, well, you said it yourself ... Over What Bandwidth? Video on demand (or even just a three-channel broadcast station configuration like the 1950's) in a ubiquitous network would take more spectrum that we're likely to see available to the wireless carriers in the near future no matter WHAT kinds of tricks they can pull out of their hats by way of reuse or compression.

    16. Re:Over what bandwidth? by faedle · · Score: 1

      He's also wrong on the size of cell sites.

      In most metro areas, a cell site would probably cover an area equal to about 5,000 handset users.

    17. Re:Over what bandwidth? by sootman · · Score: 1

      I haven't watched 'traditional' television since I discovered hulu.com and bought a computer to drive my HDTV. I can't believe I used to be willing to make an appointment to watch a TV show.

      If "making an appointment" is your definition of "traditional" television, then I haven't watched "traditional" television in the decade I've owned my TiVo.

      --
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    18. Re:Over what bandwidth? by digitalchinky · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Probably you know this already, apologies in advance...

      In most metro areas these days you have small footprint systems, several per block. In larger buildings they are often placed on each floor, the antennas anyway. I'd be quite surprised if any single cell footprint had 5000 users at one time. Back when I was working in the field, this was more than 10 years ago now so things have probably progressed a bit, SS7 was almost always a 64kbps transmission going down one of the channels in the trunk. Overall the SS7 could handle maybe a maximum of 1000 concurrent users, I think the upper limit was 1024, but it's been a long time. Only a small fraction of this total are able to make actual voice calls. Bandwidth has always been pretty tight and likely always will be. Like you mentioned, the size of the cell site makes a big difference. Make that smaller and you can increase the available bandwidth to each user.

    19. Re:Over what bandwidth? by kramerd · · Score: 1

      I can't believe I used to be willing to make an appointment to watch a TV show.

      I assume you don't watch live sports then.

    20. Re:Over what bandwidth? by fredmosby · · Score: 1

      Bandwidth doesn't work the way oil or minerals do. It can't be saved for the future. Unused bandwidth is basically a wasted resource. Why wait for a TV broadcast, which is inconvenient, when the technology exists for me to watch what I want when I want.

    21. Re:Over what bandwidth? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dammit, where a mod "-1 Don't give them ideas" when you need it.

    22. Re:Over what bandwidth? by oddTodd123 · · Score: 1

      The US telcos feeling data use,
      bandwidth upgrades and pricing is clear.
      Apple and telco $$$ time for all :)

      I have no idea what this means, but it's a beautiful haiku.

    23. Re:Over what bandwidth? by AHuxley · · Score: 1

      The US telcos feeling towards your data use, their bandwidth upgrades and extras pricing is clear :)
      It seems if you want "TV" you going to have to stream it via some Apple like device and a pay a telco's monthly plan.

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    24. Re:Over what bandwidth? by node+3 · · Score: 1

      With net neutrality not an issue, I wonder if AT&T will have its arm twisted into giving "free" passage to any Apple specified content where it doesn't contribute to the cap, while anything from Hulu, YouTube, and other places get charged the metered rates. This way, users end up going to Apple's content because it doesn't cost them anything.

      If Apple resorts to this, then that'd be a great reason to avoid Apple's content at all costs as a form of protest against a business practice that needs to be nipped in the bud and discouraged as early in the game as possible. I'm not saying the sheeple will do that, as they are not generally known for considering the full implications of their actions i.e. whether they are encouraging a business practice that is not in their interests. I'm just saying that it's a great reason independent of whether they are capable of appreciating and acting on it.

      If Apple makes a deal with AT&T to not count iTunes streaming content against your cap would be a reason to boycott Apple? WTF?

      Ignoring the fact that this is all imaginary right now, assuming this exact thing happens, it's a net positive for the end user. You'll note that this scenario doesn't have Apple making a deal with AT&T to charge more for Hulu et al, but charging less for iTunes content.

      But this is all moot at the moment, as Apple has no such plans announced, and it's not even their style.

    25. Re:Over what bandwidth? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      People have been timeshifting TV viewing since the late 1970s. Yours is not a new discovery.

    26. Re:Over what bandwidth? by nicke999 · · Score: 1

      Cell phone networks already support multicast so there is no need to hade individual streams to each handset. The standard is called MBMS and is part of the GSM/HSPA/LTE standard.

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    27. Re:Over what bandwidth? by Bing+Tsher+E · · Score: 1

      Expanding capacity dramatically because something is 'inconvenient' is, however, similar to the way oil and minerals work. Unused bandwidth is basically a wasted resource, and is the direct result of overbuilt capacity.

    28. Re:Over what bandwidth? by Bing+Tsher+E · · Score: 1

      If "making an appointment" is your definition of "traditional" television, then I haven't watched "traditional" television in the decade I've owned my TiVo.

      Sure it is. You just have an electronic secretary to make your appointments for you. You have to plan ahead, or have your agent plan ahead, for you. Anything you've 'missed' is gone.

    29. Re:Over what bandwidth? by mister_playboy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If Apple makes a deal with AT&T to not count iTunes streaming content against your cap would be a reason to boycott Apple? WTF?

      They would be building a walled garden where users will tune into their content rather than get it from elsewhere on the Internet.

      Isn't it obvious? The trap works much better if it has been baited... the "doesn't count against your cap" part is the bait.

      --
      Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law ::: Love is the law, love under will
    30. Re:Over what bandwidth? by apoc.famine · · Score: 1

      Indeed. I'd totally avoid any HTTP:GET commands as well. It's terribly wasteful to receive information like that, rather than via town crier.

      The thing is, information has steadily become more and more personalized. At first, our information was broadcast - around the campfire, from the center of town, from the pulpit. Then, our desire for information became more specific - competing printed works, consumed at our own time and choosing, composed of what we wanted to consume.

      Radio and TV put us back into the broadcast era, where we had some choice of content, but no control over when to receive information.

      Enter the TiVO and internet age, and we have the best of all worlds. Lots of choices, and the ability to choose when to consume. When to start, when to pause, when to rewind, when to stop.

      I'll happily get off your lawn, because frankly, your lawn sucks. TV and Radio were a huge step back, because they forced users to become a captive audience, with limited ability to modulate what and when they got their information and entertainment. Yes, from a bandwidth perspective, they are fantastic. And yes, for things that MUST be broadcast (live sports, eg.) they can't easily be replaced. But for most entertainment, they are terrible.

      I understand your hanging onto bandwidth allocation, but neither do I worry much about water allocation, land allocation, food allocation, traffic congestion, or electricity allocation. The place I live in has done an adequate job in allocating all those things. When they stop being allocated to my liking, I'll try to work with my fellow citizens (ok, hope the corporations pay my politicians to do the right thing) to re-allocate them appropriately. Bandwith worries for client-server connections is far less important now than it has been in a long time. But if you want to worry about it, I'll get off your lawn.

      --
      Velociraptor = Distiraptor / Timeraptor
    31. Re:Over what bandwidth? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      AT&T wants to get paid as much for its bandwidth as possible.

      The network costs for content that provides revenue to apple will be built into the purchase price and transferred to AT&T.

      Increase in demand vs fixed supply results in price increase

    32. Re:Over what bandwidth? by causality · · Score: 1

      If Apple makes a deal with AT&T to not count iTunes streaming content against your cap would be a reason to boycott Apple? WTF?

      They would be building a walled garden where users will tune into their content rather than get it from elsewhere on the Internet.

      Isn't it obvious? The trap works much better if it has been baited... the "doesn't count against your cap" part is the bait.

      I believe GP fits my definition of the "sheeple ... who are not known for considering the full implications of their actions" (emphasis added). I believe their mentality is this: "is there a short-term gain, maybve some frivolous thing I could easily live without, and a long-term loss like less freedom of choice? Sign me up!"

      --
      It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. - Einstein
    33. Re:Over what bandwidth? by sootman · · Score: 1

      I thought by "appointment" he meant "I need to be in my living room at 10pm on Wednesdays to watch South Park."

      As for Hulu, given a choice between the two, I'd still rather have cable or satellite with ALL the channels and a PVR over Hulu with its relatively limited selection.

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    34. Re:Over what bandwidth? by Xest · · Score: 1

      "I agree about the 3G though. Cell phone networks have been slow to realize that they need to develop a high speed high bandwidth data only network and deploy it everywhere."

      When the land line carriers have been refusing to pay for this for the last decade despite already having the resources and infrastructure to feed the cable down and connect it together, what makes you think mobile carriers are capable of doing it?

    35. Re:Over what bandwidth? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      too bad the ipad isn't running at 640x480 . . .

    36. Re:Over what bandwidth? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We're quite fortunate to have... atoms? I'm sorry but it's bullshit: as you stated it, we have what, at our scale, is an infinite amount of sunlight. We have an unlimited supply of energy. We have atoms. We can create and re-cycle *many* atoms.

      I'm not for consumerism: I'm the kind of person that takes always his same old plastic bag to the grocery store as to not generate needless waste.

      But we have energy and atoms all around us and we can make good use of them, recycle them, and enjoy quite some pleasures.

    37. Re:Over what bandwidth? by Gilmoure · · Score: 1

      I've used the TV Tuner on my Mac server to stream live tv to my iPhone over 3G. It worked pretty well. I only have access to the 70 odd analog stations, though. Tuner can't get Comcast's digital stuff.

      --
      I drank what? -- Socrates
    38. Re:Over what bandwidth? by rdnetto · · Score: 1

      That's only if they stick to the conventional model. Consider a BitTorrent-esque solution: the provider supplies 1 copy of the content over 3G, and the various clients share it over WiFi. While the popularity of individual series would be too low for it to work, it could work for the major TV stations if watching a program from 1 channel meant acting as a node for all programs on that channel.
      It would require a very high population density though, and I doubt that there will ever be that many people who want to stream broadcast TV over 3G - given the (likely extortionate) cost, people are much more likely to broadcatch the content on their main PCs and sync the portable device before they leave.

      --
      Most human behaviour can be explained in terms of identity.
  5. Drivel.. by Wovel · · Score: 5, Informative

    I told the firehose this link-bait was stupid, not sure why it did not listen. TFA article does not make any sense. There is no meat to it. It does not offer any information. The entire thing is pointless.

    BTW there is nothing in the article that is not in the summary, so feel free to comment away without clicking. Not clicking is actually preferable in this case. I would dispute the point of the article, but since it makes no point, it is difficult to dispute. It is also, umm, pointless....

    1. Re:Drivel.. by IndustrialComplex · · Score: 3, Funny

      Hell and the summary sounds like it came from the movie 'The Ten Commandments'. And Apple declares it.... So let it be written.

      --
      Out of modpoints but really liked a post? 1BDkF6TtmmeZ3yqXbz9yhdYVqRYnwFoXDj
    2. Re:Drivel.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah. Don't comment on "stories" like this - it only encourages the douchebag spammers.

    3. Re:Drivel.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No kidding.

      Not to mention Nokia sold 107.8 million units just this quarter. In other words, in 3 months Nokia sold more than 1.5 times what Apple sold in 3 years. Then you have HTC, LG, Samsung, etc. Apple is a tiny little guppy in the mobile world.

    4. Re:Drivel.. by icebike · · Score: 2

      Not only that, but they compare US tv sales to Apple WORLD sales.

      When you purchased your TV set, you knew you weren't going to get any content from Philco or Sylvania. Those companies would not limit what you could watch.

      --
      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
    5. Re:Drivel.. by EdIII · · Score: 1

      I don't know about pointless....

      "Call it the Apple Broadcast Network. iAd is how Apple plans to pay for it."

      What preceded that statement was a bunch of hype and cheer leading, but that is a pretty big statement there at the end.

      1) Apple is going to become a television network. Considering the recent article about their market capitalization surpassing Microsoft for the first time, they just *might* decide to go for it. I really dunno. Sony went took a bunch of steps backwards financially to support the PS3 before going forward, so it could be a calculated risk. They might also license their content competitively to the cable companies and satellite companies for distribution.

      I honestly wonder what kind of content they would create. Considering that we would probably need to calculate (with a perfect Grand Unified Theory) all future events in the Universe before understanding how Apple approves content/software in it's app store and their seemingly Quaker like attitude towards sex and sexuality the content itself would probably make the Teletubbies look downright lurid in comparison.

      Apple is the bastion of Shiny Happy People right? Some say (who are clearly just jealous) that they are pretentious, beret-wearing, Starbucks-swilling, shallow douchenozzles. Definitely a percentage to be sure, but I don't think we can blame Apple personally. Before you mod flamebait, I totally admit that my sample is a single person (my friend), who also is a total Adobe Slut, so two strikes. If he is reading this, yes I know... I am an ass... but you actually own that fucking beret don't you? Seriously, I have seen him wear the beret. You can't make that up.

      Will be interesting to see what Apple thinks its glorious followers want for TV content. Can't wait actually.

      2) iAd. i-Advertising. As in commercials and shit. I literally mean shit here, not an attempt at slang.

      This one honestly surprises me. Apple has been, in the last couple of years, pretty damn good at putting out shiny objects that people will pistol-whip their mothers to obtain. I would think that this ability to perform so well was an indication of a deeper understanding of where the world is going in regards to technology, culture, and how we want to interact with it... then again... commercials?

      For reals? For Serious?

      Advertising is dying. Not a question of if, but when. Now we can argue about AdBlock Plus and the ethics of removing advertising and thwarting it all day long. What is without question though, is that the technology to perform such actions is getting better and more used.

      I left the cable companies and satellite networks over 5 years ago and did not look back. I have not even watched TV since November 2009, and that was an HD torrent with the advertising ripped out, but those super-lame ad overlays during the actual show.

      If you (Big Media) want me back, and a small portion of my money, you are going to have to give me what I want. Content on demand, time-shifted and media-shifted with NO RESTRICTIONS and DRM, and with absolutely no advertising of any kind. I am of course willing to pay on a show-by-show basis, if I decide that I really like it that much and need to see the next episode this Friday instead of actually having a life outdoors now.

      Of course I may be different than most, and probably I am, but betting on Advertising to prop up a whole network when Advertising itself has been in a consistent decline in revenues year after year just strikes me as foolish.

      So... I found this article quite interesting simply by what it implies to me.

    6. Re:Drivel.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They told you not to comment, you douchebag.

    7. Re:Drivel.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      Oh, so the firehose ignores you, as well. I've noticed it ignores me, too.

      Still, I eat my own... what's that? Do you? Oh, that makes two of us. Coprophage, I think is the term.

      Well, yes, the *accepted* term. I think 'Ballmerite' is going too far...

    8. Re:Drivel.. by wkcole · · Score: 1

      I told the firehose this link-bait was stupid, not sure why it did not listen.

      Professional courtesy. One robotic mindless incompetent website editor giving another a free pass.

      TFA article does not make any sense. There is no meat to it. It does not offer any information. The entire thing is pointless.

      It got a bunch of /.ers to visit MP3 Newswire, which appears to the the point of everything "Hodejo1" submits to /.

    9. Re:Drivel.. by Yaur · · Score: 1

      The article is pure speculation by someone that doesn't even understand the basics of what it would take to bring something like this to market.

    10. Re:Drivel.. by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 1

      Plus cellphones are, inherently, personal devices. It is not surprising that ideally each person would like to own one. Have four people living in a house? Good chance they'd like to have 4 cell phones, and will provided they have the money. TVs are not the same. TVs can be shared. While not every person in America owns a TV, I would venture to say that very nearly, like 99.99999%, of all American households owns a TV, even the very poor.

      So I wouldn't expect an equal number, even in the US. However I would say that TV reaches almost every American and smartphones do not, not unless the number of active smartphones equals the total population.

    11. Re:Drivel.. by Bing+Tsher+E · · Score: 1

      Well, the story is hosted on apple.slashdot.com, not the real slashdot. So we can expect this kind of thing.

  6. exaggerated numbers by phantomfive · · Score: 4, Insightful

    As often happens when someone is trying to support their position, these numbers are exaggerated. A lot of people have bought two iPhones, so there really aren't that many iPhones out in the wild. The phones are not all in the US, either, and an iPod touch with nothing but wifi may not be the best media delivery system.

    In other words, if your business plan (or anything real, other than a slashdot story) depends on these numbers, you better dig deeper so you know what you are really dealing with.

    --
    Qxe4
    1. Re:exaggerated numbers by sznupi · · Score: 1

      Plus TV, especially in its early days, is a single device shared among many eyeballs.

      --
      One that hath name thou can not otter
    2. Re:exaggerated numbers by polymath69 · · Score: 1

      The guy doesn't even write his dates in ISO standard format. He must think he's posting to the USA Wide Web.

      --

      --
      I don't want to rule the world... I just want to be in charge of mayonnaise.
    3. Re:exaggerated numbers by Dr.+Spork · · Score: 1

      On the other hand, if Apple made something like an IP TV station, they wouldn't be crazy enough to make it accessible only from their mobile devices. I'm quite sure that there would be an interface in the style of iTunes that even works in Windows. But having said that, I don't think the problem is the lack of an installed base with the right hardware. I think the problem is getting this service to work and getting content for it.

    4. Re:exaggerated numbers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The guy doesn't even write his dates in ISO standard format. He must think he's posting to the USA Wide Web.

      you're such a dune coon.

      read the slashdot faq. this is an American site that happens to also have some visitors from other countries. get over it.

    5. Re:exaggerated numbers by fredmosby · · Score: 1

      I've bought two iPhones. Of coarse when I bought my second, I gave my old one to my brother, and when he bought a new iPhone he sold it to a friend. There are at least three people who want my current iPhone if I decide to buy Apple's next phone. None of the iPhone models are so old that they are obsolete. Judging by my experience the vast majority of iPhones that that have been sold are probably still in circulation.

    6. Re:exaggerated numbers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Of course they'd limit it to their devices. It'd be a damn selling point. To expect them to *not* leverage it to move more devices is naive.

    7. Re:exaggerated numbers by ninjakoala · · Score: 1

      I suspect a lot of the people who bought two iPhones or iPods handed their old model down to family. My mom now has my old iPod Touch, since I have an iPhone.

      You're correct that not all are in the US, but then again: Does it matter? The internet is already decentralized. Heck, it could be the first step to kill off geoblocking - and wouldn't that be lovely?

      --
      Against the grain
  7. In other words... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ..."America is still devoted to worthlessness."

  8. Huh? by Scareduck · · Score: 5, Insightful

    How do you get from "people own devices made by X" to "X has a network"? Dumbest. Story. Idea. Ever.

    --

    Dog is my co-pilot.

    1. Re:Huh? by ModernGeek · · Score: 1

      Yeah, we've seen what titans Zenith and RCA became by making television sets.

      --
      Sig: I stole this sig.
    2. Re:Huh? by MrNonchalant · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Right, because RCA TVs and Apple iPhones are absolutely comparable. They both display moving images. They both play sound. And they are both internet-connected devices running software written and updated by a single party. That party maintains a persistent connection to them, and has an avowed interest in becoming a media distribution power. Oh, wait.

      I am not suggesting that Apple will literally play streaming video over all these devices. However, it's an interesting way to think about the vested power here. They have 90 million devices that they essentially own in everyone's pockets, backpacks and living rooms. They are one update, one App Store app, away from becoming bigger than all four broadcast networks at their peak.

    3. Re:Huh? by Scareduck · · Score: 1

      Waah.

      --

      Dog is my co-pilot.

    4. Re:Huh? by inKubus · · Score: 0, Troll

      Mom, Scareduck won't stop using periods too often!

      --
      Cool! Amazing Toys.
    5. Re:Huh? by Scott+Tracy · · Score: 1

      Well, RCA did create NBC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBC), to make content for their devices (in a 1920s kind of way). So that's actually an exact parallel to the Apple situation we're discussing (which is nuts in and of itself, but that's for a different thread)

    6. Re:Huh? by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      How do you get from "people own devices made by X" to "X has a network"? Dumbest. Story. Idea. Ever.

      Everything Apple requires that you use iTunes. This provides Apple a chance to show you ads. Comparing to the number of TV sets in 1957 is phenomenally stupid though. I have more computing power in my lap than the whole world had in 1957 but it doesn't mean I'm the god of computers.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  9. Yay Apple by thomasw_lrd · · Score: 0, Insightful

    Once again another apple story with no point. The climate in 1959 was much different than it is today. They only had radio and uhhm, tv. There was no internet, no video games. It was either watch tv at home or go to the movies. Today we have so many more options.

  10. My cat ate an Apple: post it on slashdot! by DMiax · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Of course, since there was a story on Microsoft on the front page, we had to see this baseless speculation of a random guy on the net. I suppose everyone wants this stories, because they keep coming...

    As for the subject I understand they have a content distribution network called iTunes and it works quite well. They will produce the iFridge before ever creating two competing products. Is there any point at all in this speculation?

    1. Re:My cat ate an Apple: post it on slashdot! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      OK: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvDsrL2uCss

  11. I must be missing the point. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I don't understand what this is trying to prove. Yes, mobile phone sales by Apple are greater than the TV sales in the 1950s. They both have advertising. Okay, good analogy so far. But the video people want to watch isn't coming from Apple, it's coming from Youtube and a number of other independent sites. The bandwith is coming from AT&T. I don't think Apple is interested in providing either the content or the bandwith themselves at this point, unless you mean iTunes sales. And those should be supported by the price of the content itself.

  12. Uhh, 1959? by thenextstevejobs · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Anyone care to enlighten me to why the ___ it matters how many Apple devices there are compared to how many TVs there were in 1959? Somebody playing madlibs with summaries?

    --
    Long live the BSD license
    1. Re:Uhh, 1959? by cappp · · Score: 1

      It's easier to find numbers for televisions than invisible pink unicorns?

      More seriously, the idea is that Apple now had access to a huge and amazing content delivery system. It's a reasonable point if poor sourced and confusing in the origins of its numbers.

      Ignoring all the other problems, the post fails at basic math. The US population in 1959 was just under 178mil as per the census (http://www.census.gov/popest/archives/1990s/popclockest.txt). Google tells me that we're at about 307mil right now (http://www.google.com/publicdata?ds=uspopulation&met=population&tdim=true&dl=en&hl=en&q=usa+population). 63/178 > 90/307. Methinks someone got confused between greater-than and less-than.

    2. Re:Uhh, 1959? by cappp · · Score: 1

      Ouch, methinks someone needed to do a read-through before clicking submit.

  13. Ads by RafaelAngel · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I despise how everything I now want to interact with (TV, Internet, video games, the old paper media) must be all based on ads. Can't somebody think of a better way? And if I have a subscription, can't I receive an ad free version. Thank (your favorite deity) for AdBlock and the mute button. I remember a time when there were only two commercial breaks when watching a TV program, now it's four. It sometimes feels like there is more commercials than actual program. I demand that these media outlets pay me for watching these ads. I might actually pay attention to them if I was paid to watch them.

    1. Re:Ads by sznupi · · Score: 1

      In Soviet Union, a better way has you!

      --
      One that hath name thou can not otter
    2. Re:Ads by gumbi+west · · Score: 1

      There are only two models, ads and subscription/purchase. Ads have worked for radio, TV, newspaper for decades (and still more or less does for TV and radio). Subscription/purchase has worked for... HBO and books, it used to work for music and movies but then they became easy to rip and it was over.

      Also, you are paid to watch the ads, you are paid with the content that you are given (otherwise gratis). If you don't want the ads: don't consume the content.

      As for a better way, I've noticed that it is always someone else that people think will come up with a better way. The fact of the matter is that there are tons of consumers now who have been spoiled by ripped content so that they just want everything free. The only way to get around that is content-integrated ads that satisfy the ad buyers and the content producers. NOBODY is going to be happy with that.

    3. Re:Ads by __aajfby9338 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I despise ads so much that I've quit watching broadcast TV or listening to radio. The few TV shows that I do watch, I buy from the iTunes store, because I'd rather pay a couple bucks than have to watch any ads, and I don't watch enough TV shows to justify bothering with a cable TV subscription and DVR (to skip the ads).

      When I'm in a friend's vehicle and they have the radio on, hearing the ads is worse torture than their incompatible taste in music. I used to subscribe to XM radio, but cancelled when they merged the XM/Sirius channel lineups and eliminated much of the stuff that I wanted to listen to; at that point, they no longer could compete with my iPod.

      I like my Apple products, and barely tolerate Apple's iron fist (there's a lot of room for improvement there). However, if there was an "Apple Broadcasting Network" supported by "iAds", I wouldn't have any interest in it unless there was an easy way to avoid ever seeing any of the ads. I have zero interest in ad-supported products, though I'm not above using ad-supported products and services where I can easily block the ads.

      So, to all of you ad-supported product providers out there: Unless you let me steal your crappy product without having to see the ads, I'm just not interested. Die in a fire, and all that. If you think you have a product that's good enough that I can't live without it, then give me a way to support it without seeing ads. If it's a good enough product, I'll happily pay for it; if it's crap, I'll either steal it for free or just live without it.

    4. Re:Ads by gumbi+west · · Score: 1

      If it's crap, why would you waste your time watching/listening to it? Is it possible this is just a way to justify to yourself not paying for content?

      Just curious, do you have a limit, like once the play count on a song goes over 10, then you buy it? Or might you play a song 40 times but still claim it is crap even if it is catchy?

    5. Re:Ads by scottrocket · · Score: 1

      SO -paid content with product placement, but benefiting me. Sign me up.

    6. Re:Ads by __aajfby9338 · · Score: 1

      Maybe I wasn't clear enough. The "crap" that I referred to "stealing" is only ad-supported stuff. Like a broadcast TV show that I might record and then watch while skipping the ads (I don't bother doing that any more), or a web page that's festooned with annoying ads (that I happily block). I don't pirate music at all. I have just under 3,500 songs in my music collection, and I've paid for all of them either by ripping a CD that I bought (and still own/possess), or by buying them from a digital provider like iTunes or Amazon. I am quite happy to support providers of quality content, including music, TV shows, movies and software. Even the CDs I own were mostly bought new (except for out-of-print stuff that's not available new), so I generally don't double-dip by buying a CD that somebody else has already ripped. Heck, a friend recently turned me onto the web series The Guild, and I bought it in the iTunes store rather than watching it for free on their web site. I was happy that a portion of the purchase price would be going back to the creators of that series.

      My point was simply that I despise ads so much that I refuse to tolerate them at all. I will pay for quality non-ad-supported products. If a product is only available in an ad-supported format, I'll either block/skip the ads or just live without the product.

    7. Re:Ads by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      but you *are* paid to watch the commercials - by way of being allowed to watch the program - someone's determined that the program is worth $X / person - you have the absolute right not to watch the program if you feel the commercials are not worth the time. The convenience to catch missed programs by Hulu is brought by a handful of short ads, and usually from the same company over and over again. If I see another ad for 5Hour Energy, I want to scream, but then I realize that with out them taking a few seconds of my time, I wouldnt be able to watch half of anything conveniently distributed through Hulu - they've pumped so much money into the adspace that they practically single handedly keep Hulu afloat. Now, I'm feeling a little sluggish, where's my shot of energy.... (never had one, never plan to try one, but i'll let them bombard me for 2 minutes of my life to get whatever it was I was watching for "free")

    8. Re:Ads by RafaelAngel · · Score: 1

      We tout innovation but apparently no one can innovate a way out of using the same ad model for decades. I prefer subscriptions. I'm a happy subscriber of Marvel Digital Comics. Also had HBO at one point. Why can't we subscribe to the channels we want and not pay for the ones we don't want(a la carte). Or better yet have a subscription model per show. The show you like will be ad free while the others, which you'll probably ignore, run like they usually do.

    9. Re:Ads by gumbi+west · · Score: 1

      Ad models have changed substantially, think of Google Ads. The point is you can't really get away from (a) the user pays or (b) someone else pays and the user must pay attention to their ad.

      As for a la carte, iTunes and netflix already have this. On iTunes, you can already subscribe to a show.

    10. Re:Ads by gumbi+west · · Score: 1

      I see, sorry for my misinterpretation and saying you don't pay for your content.

    11. Re:Ads by __aajfby9338 · · Score: 1

      It's cool.

    12. Re:Ads by vertinox · · Score: 1

      There are only two models, ads and subscription/purchase.

      You forgot donations, subsidies, and patronization.

      Hey patronization worked during the Renaissance for starving artists. Could work now.

      --
      "I am the king of the Romans, and am superior to rules of grammar!"
      -Sigismund, Holy Roman Emperor (1368-1437)
    13. Re:Ads by Datamonstar · · Score: 1

      I bet you roll over and go to sleep immediately after orgasm, too. (Yes, I am aware that this is /.)

      --
      The eternal struggle of good vs. evil begins within one's self.
    14. Re:Ads by __aajfby9338 · · Score: 1

      I bet you roll over and go to sleep immediately after orgasm, too. (Yes, I am aware that this is /.)

      Depends on what's on TV... ;)

  14. TVs can be watched by many by LoverOfJoy · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The whole family (which was larger on average back then compared to now) would gather around a single TV to watch together back in 1959. Iphones and even Ipads aren't really conducive to shared viewing like that.

    1. Re:TVs can be watched by many by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

      Sharing is evil..

      1) each person needs a viewer
      2) each viewer needs a license(subscription?)
      3) Profit!!

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    2. Re:TVs can be watched by many by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, your slashdot name goes with your comment like a warm apple pie goes with Thanksgiving.

    3. Re:TVs can be watched by many by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ... unless you plug your ipad (or next-gen-apple-tv) into your tv so all can share.

    4. Re:TVs can be watched by many by LoverOfJoy · · Score: 1

      Do those plugs come included with the ipads or are they sold separately (honest question, I really don't know)? If they are sold separately then what are the sales figures like for those plugs? My impression is that the vast majority of ipad/iphone owners don't hook up their machine to their television and would prefer using cable, a dvd, or even having their computer permanently hooked up to their tv to watch shows or movies with friends and family. Sure, with Apple's numbers they have the potential to grab a piece of the media pie that is not insignificant. I just don't think the sales numbers are really comparable to the sales numbers of a device that is specifically designed for the watching of shows by multiple viewers.

  15. Competition by Puk · · Score: 3, Insightful

    In 1959, the television broadcast networks were competing with... radio? Today, Apple is competing with an enormous number of Windows- (and Linux-, Android-, WebOS-...) based Internet-connected laptops (and desktops, phones, PDAs, tablets...) capable of showing the same quality video. Oh, and with television (broadcast, cables, satellite...), which has grown a bit since 1959.

    -puk

  16. Apple Scam by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "That makes a proprietary amalgam greater than what the TV networks had in 1959 and one that easily serves as a foundation for a pending broadcast network that will be delivered not through tall radio towers, but through the internet via medium radio towersand local wireless cells (and cost infinitely more than free)" Fixed

  17. The Death Star for this lame argument. by MyFirstNameIsPaul · · Score: 1

    Apple has to compete with every other content delivery option. Pbpbpbpttt.

    --

    I once took an excursion to Reddit, and later HN. Unlimited up/down voting sucks when dealing with a hive-mind.

  18. OUseless without an unlimited data plan by tomhudson · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Nobody wants to pay to download ads, just like nobody wants to pay to download Wired magazine's 500 megabyte iPad edition (which is what happens when you cancel flash support and leave everyone scrambling).

    1. Re:OUseless without an unlimited data plan by PenguSven · · Score: 4, Insightful

      nobody wants to pay to download Wired magazine's 500 megabyte iPad edition (which is what happens when you cancel flash support and leave everyone scrambling).

      Two things...

      1. Apple never indicated that Flash would be supported on it's iPhoneOS devices, so how can they cancel support for something they never supported?
      2. How is it Apples fault that Adobes "solution" for a lack of flash, is to bundle a heap of IMAGESinto an App?
      --
      What is...?
    2. Re:OUseless without an unlimited data plan by MBCook · · Score: 3, Informative

      They've still got WiFi, which covers a LOT of places. It covers my house, my parents house, my friends houses, my work, and many restaurants, hotels, and other places of business. Most of the places I use my iPhone, usually when I'm sitting around waiting for something, WiFi is often available.

      For the rest of the time, yes, theres 3G. Someone (Engadget or Gizmodo) did some calculations the other day and found that it would take ~11 hours of streaming TV shows on Netflix to use up the 2G monthly allocation the new data plans have. That's for a normal computer, not lower resolution designed for mobile viewing.

      They could get people to watch quite a bit of content without killing their bandwidth caps, especially if you pre-load it when on WiFi for on the desktop and then sync it to the phone (basically, as video podcasts).

      I will agree that the fact that cap is there would make me have to think about watching content when I had to get it over 3G/4G/HyperPonyDataRadio, when I wouldn't have thought about it before.

      --
      Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
    3. Re:OUseless without an unlimited data plan by Kitkoan · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      nobody wants to pay to download Wired magazine's 500 megabyte iPad edition (which is what happens when you cancel flash support and leave everyone scrambling).

      1. How is it Apples fault that Adobes "solution" for a lack of flash, is to bundle a heap of IMAGESinto an App?

      Maybe Apple should have allowed Flash to run on the iPad then? At the moment they say they are against Flash but the problem is, whats the alternative? HTML5 is still too much in it's infancy to be an acceptable alternative, and things like this 500mg iPad magazine shows that the other option isn't a good option since the new data plans listed are what? 2 gigs max I think before extra charges? So 4 magazines and there goes your bandwidth and you have to pay more to surf the internet or only download the magazines when your on a wifi-only link (which kinda kills the whole 3g network concept). In the end at the worst case is that Apple should allow at least a watered down version of Flash to run since it would be better then nothing and then make it obsolete when a better technology shows up.

      --
      Attention... all grammer nazi"s! Is they're anything; wrong with: my post,
    4. Re:OUseless without an unlimited data plan by tyrione · · Score: 1, Insightful

      nobody wants to pay to download Wired magazine's 500 megabyte iPad edition (which is what happens when you cancel flash support and leave everyone scrambling).

      1. How is it Apples fault that Adobes "solution" for a lack of flash, is to bundle a heap of IMAGESinto an App?

      Maybe Apple should have allowed Flash to run on the iPad then? At the moment they say they are against Flash but the problem is, whats the alternative? HTML5 is still too much in it's infancy to be an acceptable alternative, and things like this 500mg iPad magazine shows that the other option isn't a good option since the new data plans listed are what? 2 gigs max I think before extra charges? So 4 magazines and there goes your bandwidth and you have to pay more to surf the internet or only download the magazines when your on a wifi-only link (which kinda kills the whole 3g network concept). In the end at the worst case is that Apple should allow at least a watered down version of Flash to run since it would be better then nothing and then make it obsolete when a better technology shows up.

      Maybe Wired should have backed the right Pony and hired Apple to consult in writing their application and not Adobe.

    5. Re:OUseless without an unlimited data plan by aztektum · · Score: 0, Redundant

      ORly?

      --
      :: aztek ::
      No sig for you!!
    6. Re:OUseless without an unlimited data plan by JackAxe · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That would be the wrong pony. Take a step back and think about it, but first ease up on your zealotry for Apple.

    7. Re:OUseless without an unlimited data plan by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      At the moment they say they are against Flash but the problem is, whats the alternative?

      For a magazine app? How about an EBOOK?

      If they've got rich content, how about a PDF inside a viewer application? How does the New York Times do it? How does the MLB do it?

      Nothing about Wired's app required Flash; not having Flash didn't harm them in any way. They CHOSE to use a Flash translation tool, but it's not like their existing content was in Flash to begin with and it was just the path of least resistance...they just chose the wrong development tools.

      A bundle of high-resolution images is not a substitute for writing an app. Wired's clutter-your-homescreen with a different app per issue approach, and their bloated archive of essentially scanned images with page flips are both horrendously stupid ideas, irrespective of the tools used to create them.

      HTML5 has nothing to do with native applications. This isn't web content. This isn't Flash content having to be converted.

    8. Re:OUseless without an unlimited data plan by node+3 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Maybe Apple should have allowed Flash to run on the iPad then?

      There is nothing about the iPad app that couldn't have been accomplished with either HTML5 or as a native iPad app without resorting to images. The reason the Wired app uses images is that that's how Adobe decided to solve the InDesign -> iPad workflow. This solution is very Adobe. They make great creative tools, but horrible end-user presentation tools. Adobe Reader and Flash are prime examples of this.

      As for allowing Flash, had the Wired App been a Flash app, it would have been smaller in size, but awful in interaction and performance. Also, those that say things like "Apple should allow Flash" seem to be ignorant of the fact that Flash is not on a single handheld device, except as a very recent beta for Android. A beta which by all accounts is atrocious.

      At the moment they say they are against Flash but the problem is, whats the alternative?

      Cocoa Touch on the iPhone OS. As well as HTML5. There are zero cases where Flash is technologically better than both of those.

      HTML5 is still too much in it's infancy to be an acceptable alternative

      On mobile devices, Flash is much, much worse. Also, HTML5 is on its ascendancy, meaning that it's improving, and doing so swiftly. Flash is relatively stagnant, and there's no indication that current handheld devices will fare well with Flash, even as the awful beta version is improved over the Summer and into the Fall.

      and things like this 500mg iPad magazine shows that the other option isn't a good option since the new data plans listed are what? 2 gigs max I think before extra charges?

      The Wired iPad app is not large because it's not in Flash, it's large because it contains videos and flat images. The videos in the app take up about 100MB, which is less than the PNGs, but still significant.

      As for data plans, you can't even download the app over 3G. Apps larger than a certain size (I think 20MB) cannot be directly downloaded over 3G, only WiFi. Given that most everyone with an iPad, iPod touch or iPhone have WiFi, and that their device spends a significant amount of time on WiFi, and that the PC they connect their device to has either WiFi or an ethernet connection to the Internet, the caps on 3G service are not a big deal. Hell, in a pinch you could walk into an Apple Store and use their WiFi. I'm sure they'd be happy to let you use it to download a large app.

      So 4 magazines and there goes your bandwidth and you have to pay more to surf the internet or only download the magazines when your on a wifi-only link (which kinda kills the whole 3g network concept).

      That the coming 3G data cap for the largest standard plan only covers the data for four magazines (which you can't even download over 3G anyway), means that the whole idea of having 3G on an iPad is a flawed concept? Do you really think people would be downloading such large apps over 3G, if it were even possible, on a regular basis? If someone feels the need to download more than four 500GB magazine apps per month over 3G, and such large app downloads are allowed over 3G, these people can buy additional bandwidth at $10/GB. Not the most economical solution, but if someone is crazy enough to rely solely on 3G for such large transfers, what's another Hamilton here and there?

      In the end at the worst case is that Apple should allow at least a watered down version of Flash to run since it would be better then nothing and then make it obsolete when a better technology shows up.

      Apple notoriously leaves behind technology that is seen as either on the out, or as something which compromises the overall user experience, and it has served Apple very well. Flash falls into both of those categories, and as such it's futile to expect Apple to support it. It's also far from clear that supporting Flash would be to Apple's benefit, and a watered-down version would be even worse.

    9. Re:OUseless without an unlimited data plan by dwightk · · Score: 1

      why assume that apple would send the ads over the one pipeline that costs, instead of the plurality of pipelines that don't cost?

      Ads do not have to be updated every second. If the rumor is true that they are charging more than $1M to become an advertiser, we aren't looking at L.C.D. ads that try to latch on to the hippest keyword of the moment, but a few advertisers looking for a higher-end market.

      That could be updated when the phone syncs, or when the phone is on WiFi.

      --
      Like anyone can even know that
    10. Re:OUseless without an unlimited data plan by c_forq · · Score: 1

      I'm not so sure. Apple just recently posted a ton of HTML 5 demos on there website. One of the key features is "all of the text is HTML, so it is searchable and accessible". There is at least once a week that I am pissed that a flash page has broken scrolling, unselectable text, or unsearchable text. I'm sure those depending on Google adwords (and soon iAds) will like that feature.

      --
      Computers allow humans to make mistakes at the fastest speeds known, with the possible exception of tequila and handguns
    11. Re:OUseless without an unlimited data plan by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Also, those that say things like "Apple should allow Flash" seem to be ignorant of the fact that Flash is not on a single handheld device, except as a very recent beta for Android. A beta which by all accounts is atrocious.

      Nonsense - my Nokia E71 from 2008 supported Flash straight out of the box.

    12. Re:OUseless without an unlimited data plan by tomhudson · · Score: 1

      why assume that apple would send the ads over the one pipeline that costs, instead of the plurality of pipelines that don't cost?

      All end up costing.

      If they cache them on the device, they cost the user storage space - and these are devices that, by todays standards, are woefully under spec for storage (16 to 64 gig, no ability to expand it or add additional storage media).

      a few advertisers looking for a higher-end market.

      Apple is no longer "the high-end market". Computers are commodity devices. Apple's most pimped-out iPad costs less than an entry level computer a decade ago.

      Apple's biggest customers are cheap thieves. They'll buy an iPod, but they sure as hell didn't pay for the billions of bits of mp3s on them. Apple made its nut by aiding large-scale copyright violations.

      Apple customers are sheep. "I bought an iPad!" That'sa nice. Too bad that everything you can do with it, I can do much better with a 4-year-old laptop.

      Watch hi-def movies? You can't do that - downscaled to 1028x576 is not high def. Apple lied to you, sucker. But I can watch hi-def on my laptop, and with a 17" screen, others can watch them easier too. And I can pop in a dvd. Can you? Aw, so your dvd collection is inaccessible now. So much for being a "media tablet." Speaking of which, how's your webcam? Oops, you don't have one.

      You bought the iPad with 64 gigs of storage? Big deal, my laptop has 640 gigs (twin 320 gig), plus if I need more, I can plug in all sorts of external storage.

      System memory? 256 meg - that's it?. 4 gigs on that 4-year old laptop.

      Multi-tasking? You'll get "some" of that in your next update, I've got linux.

      Software? You're locked into the App Store. The worst part - you paid to be locked in.

      Funny how that 4-year-old laptop, at the same price even with the extra ram and hard disk, beats the pants off Apple's shiny new toy. Because the iPad is a toy.

      The iPad is not for the "high-end" market - Apple stopped targeting them (people who would spend 10k on a pimped out mac for graphics work) a long time ago, Apple is just a consumer products company now.

    13. Re:OUseless without an unlimited data plan by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      dude, stop it, really, you're getting irrational in your Apple fanboyism. I've seen Flash in mobile devices since AGES!

      You must own some stock or develop for the iFad.. but when I see your rant I can't help but feel a little sick on how Apple fans can brainwash themselves so fucking hard, iDon't want to be related to such people.

    14. Re:OUseless without an unlimited data plan by dwightk · · Score: 1

      Apple is no longer "the high-end market".

      Yeah, I've read your highly-rated rants before.

      Point is, Advertisers who are charged $1M to even get in the advertising game are going to be higher end than google ads that cost almost nothing.

      But maybe that's just a rumor, or maybe no advertisers will bite.

      --
      Like anyone can even know that
    15. Re:OUseless without an unlimited data plan by tyrione · · Score: 1

      That would be the wrong pony. Take a step back and think about it, but first ease up on your zealotry for Apple.

      Sorry, but at NeXT and Apple we wrote quite a few fortune 50/100/500 solutions for Corporations while they ramped up their staffing of such skill sets necessary to maintain and extend beyond their initial project goals.

      Who the hell do you think Adobe hired for a lot of it's internal Cocoa apps? NeXT and later Apple.

  19. 75 million sounds like a lot until.. by atticus9 · · Score: 1

    You notice that Firefox has 360 million users, Chrome has 70 million users*, and IE has more than both of those combined.

    *http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9177101/Firefox_trumps_Chrome_in_active_user_gains_Mozilla_director_argues

  20. Advertising ...revenues? by Crash+Culligan · · Score: 2, Insightful

    ravenspear: They've already "paid for it" with the bucketloads of cash they've made from selling all the devices.

    dmacleod808: Well said... AT&T's new tiered 3G plans will kill this easily... I can watch unlimited Television for free (broadcast networks of course).

    It's interesting that you two are overlooking the same thing from different angles.

    ravenspear has neglected to take into account that television is not free to broadcast. Even without government regulations and licensing, you have to have a transmitter, and either a live performance (lights, cameras) and/or some recorded performance (playback hardware) to transmit. The electricity alone would be monstrously expensive, and needs to be paid for somehow (say, advertising).

    And you're citing AT&T's tiered plans as being a stopper because you think nobody on the receiving end would pay for the service. How do you watch broadcast television without paying for it? Because the broadcaster pays for the transmitter.

    So what would happen if a significant chunk of iAd's revenue went into paying an ISP system or carrier for the bandwidth? I could only see it working this way, if you cast the phone's/pad's/computer's user as the audience, Apple itself as the network, and the ISP (or just one primary choice of ISP) as the nigh-inertial cost of doing business.

    I can easily imagine reasons why they wouldn't do this—AT&T's 3G coverage and the fact that the iPhone and similar devices are already straining their networks for two. But then again, I thought the hassles of dealing with a mobile phone carrier would be sufficient to keep the iPhone from becoming a reality, so what do I know?

    --
    You cannot truly appreciate Dilbert until you read it in the original Klingon.
    1. Re:Advertising ...revenues? by R3d+M3rcury · · Score: 1

      One possibility, also, is to use WiFi.

      I do most of my TV watching at home in front of my--oddly enough--TV. I also have WiFi at home. I'm not necessarily that interested in watching TV while I'm out and about because I'm doing other things like driving.

      Sure, there might be exceptions. I could see watching a little TV over lunch instead of reading a newspaper. If I have jury duty or some other situation where I'm stuck waiting for a potentially long period of time, I could watch some TV. But lots of restaurants have WiFi. Even some court buildings have WiFi.

      Now, I don't take mass transit (It's LA--what is this mass transit of which you speak? :^) ), so I could see it being useful there. On the other hand, again, you're slowly seeing WiFi on busses, trains, etc.

      So, watching via a 3G or 4G network probably wouldn't be my first choice anyway. Add in bandwidth caps like AT&T's and I'll probably end up waiting for a WiFi network.

    2. Re:Advertising ...revenues? by node+3 · · Score: 1

      I'm not necessarily that interested in watching TV while I'm out and about because I'm doing other things like driving.

      You don't watch TV while driving? You don't even want to do watch TV while driving?

      And you call yourself an American!

  21. Baseless speculation, that's all by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Title says it all.

    I wish I could mod this article down a dozen times...
    I mean, it is just a bunch of random predictions that are not even supported by real facts. That shouldn't even be on Slashdot, but it still ends up here just because it talks about Apple. That gets old quickly, even to an Apple fanboy.

    Yeah, I know, I must be new here, huh?

  22. There are not 90 million iphone/touch/pads by C_Kode · · Score: 2, Insightful

    They may have sold that many, but there aren't that many in use. I'm guessing somewhere near 25% of those 75 million (15-18 million) are out of use. (damaged or retired/upgraded)

    Not that it matters really to the story, just making it know that the numbers are overstated.

  23. Oh flippin' wonderful! by Chas · · Score: 0, Troll

    So we can turn on the news and see a bunch of smug schmucks in black turtlenecks behind a newsdesk reporting Apple-approved pablum 24/7?

    Hold on. Where's a leave my set of seppuku knives...

    --


    Chas - The one, the only.
    THANK GOD!!!
    1. Re:Oh flippin' wonderful! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, one-way media flow is definitely an Apple "way" of internet management. Fortunately, all we have to do is not own an Apple product, to avoid it. This'll be easy LOL.

  24. Those numbers seem fishy to me. by REALMAN · · Score: 2, Informative

    "In 1959 5,749,000 television sets were sold in the US, bringing the cumulative total of sets sold since 1950 to 63,542,128 units."

    There are 300 + Million people in the U.S. and you're telling me that only 63.5 million sets have been sold from 1950 to now???

    I call Bullshit.

    "By 1960, there were 52 million sets in American homes, one in almost nine out of ten households."
    Jordan, Winthrop. The Americans. Boston: McDougal Littell, 1996: 798.

    "According to data from the Consumer Electronics Association (CEA), there are currently 285 million televisions in use in US households."
    North American TV Market and Its Relevance [pdf]. Energy Star Research, 6 January 2006.

    --
    - A Frog in a pond utters an azure cry. -
    1. Re:Those numbers seem fishy to me. by REALMAN · · Score: 1

      Mea Culpa.

      I misunderstood the initial statement. The numbers were for 1950 - 1959

      Excuse me while I wipe the egg from my face. :P

      --
      - A Frog in a pond utters an azure cry. -
    2. Re:Those numbers seem fishy to me. by way2trivial · · Score: 1

      No.. from 1950-1959 there were 63 million - reread for comprehension
      I did have to read it twice the first time myself, but that is the conclusion I drew.

      presumably 11 million were not in use/retired over that decade

      it's still bogus for other reasons- such as the average TV supported more than one viewer
      (picture a family, and the neighbors, all watching uncle Milton together on 11 inches of b&w crt)

      --
      every day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random
  25. iAds are in apps, not media by gig · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The reason Apple is doing iAds is to improve the experience of in-app ads. User like free and $1-2 apps, and so developers have been putting ads in their apps and the ads are very basic and they take you out to the Web. So iAds are advertising-focused mini HTML5 apps that run inside native C apps, and keep you in your app.

    If used in a media app, they may support media, like a free Hulu app. But they work on all kinds of apps.

    Besides, $8.99 a month for Netflix on iPad absolutely destroys Hulu. There is no shortage of TV already on Apple devices.

    1. Re:iAds are in apps, not media by pandrijeczko · · Score: 1

      The reason Apple is doing iAds is to improve the experience of in-app ads.

      Please, please, please, stop with the marketeer-speak!

      Personally, I don't want *ANY* advertising so I don't give a toss what someone else does to "improve the experience" because to me, it's *STILL* advertising.

      The *ONLY* criteria I have is whether or not an advertising-free paid-for service is worth the money or not - if it is, I'll buy it and enjoy an "advert-free experience", otherwise I will endure the advertising for the sake of getting it free.

      --
      Gentoo Linux - another day, another USE flag.
  26. Wow. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This "story" shows exactly why Slashdot is irrelevant now.

  27. OMG . . . Apple is bigger than US Steel . . . ! by PolygamousRanchKid+ · · Score: 1

    Hyman Roth (Meyer Lansky http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meyer_Lansky) to Michael Corleone: "Mike, we're bigger than US Steel."

    I'm really not sure what that means, or is appropriate for this story, but that is the first thing that came into my head.

    Which is, as I will admit, full of holes.

    --
    Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
  28. I call BS on their TV statistics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    According to Nielsen, there were 67.5million American households subscribing to basic cable in 1999. If we assume that every American household only owns one television (hah), that they have only bought one television in the entirety of their lives (HAH), that TVs don't exist outside of homes, and that every single television ever sold in the US if still in service (hope you enjoy hooking up the B&W to a digital converter box); why were 4million households subscribing to a service that they could not physically use?

    In reality, the FCC claims that 99% of American households own a television (according to the census, the number of households in the US is around 115million), and that the majority of households own more than one TV. Additionally, and I know this is only anecdotal, I don't personally know any adult who hasn't had to buy a new television at some point (whether when they get their first place, or because an old TV has died).

    What I'm trying to say is: Only 63million TVs sold in the US since 1950? [Citation needed]

    1. Re:I call BS on their TV statistics by Wyatt+Earp · · Score: 1

      Read the passage.

      "In 1959 5,749,000 television sets were sold in the US, bringing the cumulative total of sets sold since 1950 to 63,542,128 units."

      1950 to 1959.

  29. 1959? fail. by timmarhy · · Score: 2, Insightful
    who gives a fuck how many sets existed in 1959. that was a fledging market, the TV market is now very very mature with lots of players. who wants to watch a significant amount of tv on a small fucking iphone screen anyway??!! this is all besides the point that current plans make it impossibly expensive to stream more then a few minutes of video, the cell phone networks can't cope either.

    this whole story is just stupid, has /. run out of real stories and resorted to recycling crap from mac rumor forums or something?

    --
    If you mod me down, I will become more powerful than you can imagine....
  30. Goodbye Flash. by owlnation · · Score: 2, Informative

    That's 90 million people (with a good income) who won't be seeing anything designed in Flash.

    If that's not a good reason to stop using Flash on websites, I don't know what is. If you're an advertiser, and you use those annoying Flash ads that we all hate, then it's time to change, or die.

    I may not agree with all of Apple's reasons for not using Flash, but I sure as hell love the result.

    1. Re:Goodbye Flash. by pandrijeczko · · Score: 1

      Three words:

      "Betamax Versus VHS"

      Just because everyone agrees HTML5 is a better and more open technology than Flash does not mean the former will win over the latter.

      Jobs has his own reasons for trying to destroy Adobe and I can imagine him in his office now repeating the words "Adobe is a cancer" to himself, over and over again, as Ballmer did with Linux.

      --
      Gentoo Linux - another day, another USE flag.
  31. All this means by hduff · · Score: 1

    Apple fanbois = new media bitches

    --
    "I believe in Karma. That means I can do bad things to people all day long and I assume they deserve it." : Dogbert
  32. Also by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 3, Interesting

    People don't buy phones to watch TV. They buy, well, TVs.

    I do not get this idea that retards in the press have that TVs and computers are going to go away and be replaced with phones. No, they aren't. It isn't a matter of technology, it is a matter of convenience and features. Yes, modern smartphones have no problem displaying SD video, and you can surf the web on them. No, that doesn't mean you want to use only them.

    I just bought a new TV, it is a nice 46" LCD TV. Why did I do that, if my phone could play media? Because I want a 46" TV. When I want TV I want to sack out on my couch and have a nice large screen to watch on. I do not want to have to hold a phone right up to my face to see what is going on. For that matter I don't even want to watch on my computer. My computer has a nice screen, and it is plenty large for using close up, but I don't want to sit in my computer chair all the time. Likewise, it wouldn't work well to move the system out in to the living room and try to use it there. Hence, I have a TV. Even though I have other devices that could technically fulfill its function, they do not have the features, namely the size, that I want.

    I certainly think people will continue to consume media on their portable devices. After all, if you are in the doctor's office waiting it is convenient to have a device in your pocket that can entertain you. However that doesn't mean it'll become the primary or major way people get their media.

    A big problem, in terms of streaming to mobile phones, is that pesky little thing called Shannon's Law. It states that the amount of information you can get in a given channel equals the bandwidth (in Hz) of the channel times the log of the signal to noise ratio. Well this is a real problem for high speed sustained wireless. The frequencies you are working with aren't that wide. When you are working in the 1900MHz range, you can only have channels that are tens of MHz wide. You can't have 1GHz channels or anything. Also, because of the low signal levels (-80dBm or less generally) your SNR sucks. 20dB at best, and it can be as low as 6dB for GSM. That equals not a whole lot of bandwidth. Now it can be fine when people use it in spurts. You allow someone to use a bunch of channels and get a big transfer, then someone else can use them. However if everyone is trying to sustain downloads, as is the case in streaming media, you simply run out of bandwidth.

    Unfortunately, just upping the frequency isn't a solution either. The higher the frequency, the less penetrating power it has, and the more line of sight it is. A 100GHz signal could have great bandwidth, but won't even go through a wall. So in the frequency ranges that are useful, there's just only so much bandwidth you get.

    As such, you aren't likely to see anything replace TV and cable/fibre as the main video content delivery for most people. It is simply a nice way to watch. Phones will remain a peripheral device, used occasionally but not the main thing.

  33. BUT WITH A tv YOU CAN ONLY WATCH ... TV by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    With a phone or mp3 player you, by definition, do something completely different. Like jiggle tits, sound off a fart or two, and download yet another 99 cent POS (piece of software) or two or three.

  34. Models by zogger · · Score: 1

    There are some more ways to tweak those two methods. There is patronage, then release as a freebie bit torrent, so no one entity has to eat the whole cost. Patronage say the first episode free, released as a torrent/teaser, you (all of "yous") like it and want more, the creator sets up a pool and takes donations until his minimum price is met for the next one or two episodes, then the next is released as a free torrent. That's not quite subscription, but a variant that could work if the content is good enough. The big thing once you have content to move is bandwith and server costs, with bit torrent that is shared so the price per episode doesn't have to be as high for the content creator to still make money and keep it cheaper to offer. Sure tons of leeches, but who cares, eventually if your price is met, even the leeches can serve as word of mouth advertising for you. If it isn't costing you another penny, and you got your loot, who cares then...

    A variation on the ad model is let the consumer pick the ads! At least give some option to look at ads that might be relevant to your tastes and shopping interests, not one size fits all forced ads. Like I watch the TV news sometimes OTA, but have no interest in "little purple pills" I should ask some actor-quack about, I just mentally tune those things out for the most part.

    On the net, this could be different. How about a check box with like 20 different types of ads? That and the content issuers vett the ads so they aren't malware or take too much bandwith, etc. I block ads now and also a default javascript block because of security and bandwith issues. I am on a slow connection, pulling ads from five other servers, any one of which could be spewing malware, makes the net *really* slow and is also a legitimate security issue all the time, which all these various sites like to plp;ay make believe doesn't happen/. BS, all of them it seems get nailed with spewing bad ads sometimes, plus, they assume everyone is on some whizzbang ten core machine with a ten meg a second connection. maybe *they* are at big website.com or bigadsite.com, but joe sixpack ain't all the time. They just don't grok this. Like we just saw the best place to get fast cellphone data from ATT is on the Apple campus. So all those devs and execs there get this totally skewed notion of how the net works on their iDevice.

    And now, you combine the two tweaks above, for an even different model, as long as there is at most only one or two ads per show/movie/video whatever, not every five/ten minutes. A slight donation in advance, plus somewhat ad supported with the user picking ads they might be interested in, plus the user agrees to upload at least to parity.(I can't do streaming at all except just low bitrate voice, so have to pass on any model for that, I have to download any vid first to view it)

    After that right now I got bupkis. The big problem is this expectation of every content creator wants to be a millionaire. Just ain't gonna happen with the way content gets made today, too many people like doing it and it is getting easier and easier to do, it isn't locked in to a few big players anymore.

    Raised on TV over the air, so paying directly for shows..I don't do cable or satellite now, think it is a rip, mostly because there do not have a la carte models,(I hate "plans", make it a la carte, I'll think about getting a dish..) so it would have to be good and with an easy micropayment method. I am not interested in signing up in advance for a whole season for some show over the internet. too much stuff out there to look at. Show by show..that's a possibility, but it has to be cheap. Also perfectly willing to seed a torrent to at least parity to help keep costs down for the producer so they can offer their stuff cheaper.

    This is an interesting subject because digital content is such a profound game changer in eliminating scarcity, it is our first real replicator technology. The price of copies is so absurdly low to reproduce that legitimate c

    1. Re:Models by gumbi+west · · Score: 1

      A few points:

      Physical media is about 10% of the cost of production, most of the total cost is on people you don't see or think of who are involved in the production of a song/video. It has always been the case that most of the costs were not for the last unit, its mostly about the first unit.

      As for what you call patronage, this will result in WAY to little product--I would never pony up for this model unless it was within a few bucks of the limit and stuck there for a day or two.

      I'm worried that if things don't change soon there will be very little in the way of music production and even TV/movies might fall. I'm afraid that, ironically, only the biggest acts will survive and there are just going to be a bunch of people saying, "uh, I thought the price wasn't fair, so I got the torrent. Man, they needed to fix their business model and they never did. Not my fault."

      Finally, when I read, "This is an interesting subject because digital content is such a profound game changer in eliminating scarcity, it is our first real replicator technology." I think, please google "gutenberg".

  35. Numbers are off by Hadlock · · Score: 0

    the cumulative total of sets sold since 1950 to 63,542,128 units

    Uh, I think you missed a zero at the end there, pal. Wikiawnsers says somewhere around 110 million households in the USA. *I* don't watch broadcast TV, but I still have an ancient 27" TV that a friend of a friend was looking to unload buried in the attic somewhere. The number of households that don't own even one set (even in storage) are vanishingly small. That doesn't even account for the hundreds of millions of TVs bought and broken, or simply given away or trashed over the years. You can't even give away a TV under 27" these days. I can't count the number of TVs I've seen on the curb with signs that say FREE or STILL WORKS! attached. Most households own closer to two sets. I have no idea how they got the 63 million number, that should be 630 million. But 630 million is not a number anywhere near how many products Apple has sold during the entire lifetime of the company combined, so it doesn't make for as interesting of an article.

    --
    moox. for a new generation.
    1. Re:Numbers are off by Wyatt+Earp · · Score: 1

      I think you failed to read.

      "In 1959 5,749,000 television sets were sold in the US, bringing the cumulative total of sets sold since 1950 to 63,542,128 units."

      Thats over 10 years, not to date.

  36. Maybe I'm not "in the know"... by billsayswow · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Either I missed a major news release and this was a bad article or... this is all merely speculation. Sure, I could see Apple rolling out an advertising system, it's already been mentioned vaguely before, especially since they could lock your system for the ads if they wanted to, it's just... unless it was specifically tied to certain sources of content, forcing adverts on everyone's devices could really start a slow backlash towards Apple on their level of control on the devices.

    At least... I think this sort of thing until I look at the control they already have on the devices, and see the possibility of adverts as just another step down the road that everyone will unthinkingly take.

  37. Story is BS. Anyway, what happened to mcast? by Ilgaz · · Score: 1

    When I heard multicast in 1990s and couldn't try because my ISP (like 99% others) didn't support it, it became a mystery for me.

    Why doesn't consumer multicast take off? OK, the original specs are too low for today's needs, why not multicast 2.0? Especially when Google like companies has to pay billions for same video and they are experimenting with "live" broadcast?

    Before Youtube I'd say MPAA or TV network conspiracy but it really seems something else as we hear even Microsoft is experimenting with P2P for OS updates, they simply pay too much for old fashion uploads.It should be even possible to multicast the OS updates. There should be millions of MS/Apple operating systems looking for updates at 9:10 AM and downloading terabytes of exact same file at 9:20.

  38. So that's what's happened to Stevie Jobs... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    He's turned into Citizen Kane...or even worse: Rupert Murdock.

  39. One should watch D8 conference before blogging by Ilgaz · · Score: 1

    If you watch this video (which may work without Flash on Safari/Chrome):

    http://video.allthingsd.com/video/d8-steve-jobs-on-television/FF922002-FA63-4B68-A326-EA12EC800612

    Steve Jobs told the exact problem with "Apple TV" or anything regarding "replacing TV" or "inventing things to plug into TV". He also said he will not let (!) a nation of "bloggers". Perhaps he meant such blogs/news sites (!) who doesn't understand the basic concept of millions of devices pulling some random data at same time and making money over it. Ask Google about the money Youtube makes...

  40. As someone whos house receives TEN GB A MONTH.... by dafing · · Score: 1, Flamebait

    Let me speak on this subject. I am currently receiving 10GB a month of broadband (ADSL2+) internet access, I hope to raise it to 20GB for a whole $10NZD more soon.

    Bandwidth zooms by so fast, you just wouldnt believe. 10GB is *NOTHING*...I listen to podcasts while I work, and I mean AUDIO podcasts, MP3 files, probably 64kbps is average. Many of my two hour long shows can be EASILY 80MB+...lets round to 100, shall we? So, even at just one "100MB" podcast a day, a couple hours of audio at a decent quality (not that you get a choice to scale down!), you would have 10 days worth of audio to reach 1GB, right? Well, factor in internet browsing, which, being honest, is bugger all, but YouTube video...wow, hundreds of MB can rack up fast.

    And DONT EVEN GET ME STARTED ON THE DAILY SHOW! I swear, the videos from The Daily Show much be massive...I check my usage as I go on my Mac using Activity Monitor, the Network section shows what you have uploaded and downloaded. (Countries with internet caps allow you to check on the ISP website). I can watch a few clips of The Daily Show, and check Activity Monitor....and half a GB has vanished!

    By myself I effectively chomp through 10GB in a couple of weeks, and thats RESTRAINING myself. I'm not using Bit Torrent (for linux distros of course...just like everyone else...), nor am I actually watching Video in any concerted effort.

    Honestly, take it from someone living under the tyrannical rule of Internet Caps! Fight for your freedom to actually *USE* the internet circa 2010! The caps SEEM to get smaller all the time, perhaps every few years your ISP will announce "oh look, we've doubled all the caps!"....meanwhile, Internet Video has blossomed, I remember being on THREE GB a month...and that was tight, as soon as I got 10GB a month....I somehow expanded to fill that allocation...

    I honestly shudder to imagine what it would take to replace televisions. For example, I download .flv news clips from my national news shows.... and a few minute news story can easily be 20-60MB. Choosing to watch the freaking "nightly news" on my computer has real consequences, if I just watched on my TV, for a couple hours a night in the background, I'd be "saving" ....half a GB a night?

    Do everything you can to avoid caps! The internet should be "all you can eat", WITHIN REASON, IE not for chronic illegal downloading of movies, music etc.

    --
    --- ...or a new slashdot signature. Dear aunt, let's set so double the killer delete select all
  41. DuMont! by oddTodd123 · · Score: 1

    Telling that the summary of this stupid article mentioned DuMont, as DuMont is the only one of the four networks that also manufactured TVs. Shows how well the combined broadcaster/manufacturer business model worked back then.

    It sounds to me like the article is suggesting Apple start producing its own shows, and not just a few shows, but enough to replace the dozens of shows that people watch on the networks currently. Being a broadcaster has never been a very profitable business; they make their money from producing shows.

    1. Re:DuMont! by Wyatt+Earp · · Score: 1

      Allen B. DuMont made and sold TVs, but the network didn't manufacture them. They did pretty good, making high end TVs until 1960 and then selling to Fairchild and Emerson Radio

  42. Flash already exists on mobile by Mr2001 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Also, those that say things like "Apple should allow Flash" seem to be ignorant of the fact that Flash is not on a single handheld device, except as a very recent beta for Android.

    Not true. Flash Lite is already shipping on some phones, including the HTC Hero and Evo. It's not Flash Player 10.1, which is the beta you mentioned (and that beta is available for Android 2.2 users to try for themselves), but it's enough for many popular sites.

    Cocoa Touch on the iPhone OS. As well as HTML5. There are zero cases where Flash is technologically better than both of those.

    Flash is more portable than Cocoa Touch. It's more powerful than HTML5 and also has better development/design tools.

    It's also far from clear that supporting Flash would be to Apple's benefit, and a watered-down version would be even worse.

    Apple's benefit? Of course, they'd rather have you use their proprietary APIs. But isn't their customers' benefit what really matters?

    As for the watered-down version: again, you're ignoring Flash Lite, which is certainly better than no Flash at all.

    --
    Visual IRC: Fast. Powerful. Free.
    1. Re:Flash already exists on mobile by node+3 · · Score: 0, Troll

      Also, those that say things like "Apple should allow Flash" seem to be ignorant of the fact that Flash is not on a single handheld device, except as a very recent beta for Android.

      Not true. Flash Lite is already shipping on some phones, including the HTC Hero and Evo. It's not Flash Player 10.1, which is the beta you mentioned (and that beta is available for Android 2.2 users to try for themselves), but it's enough for many popular sites.

      That's not Flash, it's a subset of Flash.

      Cocoa Touch on the iPhone OS. As well as HTML5. There are zero cases where Flash is technologically better than both of those.

      Flash is more portable than Cocoa Touch. It's more powerful than HTML5 and also has better development/design tools.

      And neither of those are cases "where Flash is technologically better than both of those".

      As a solution for iPhone, iPod touch, and iPad, the combination of Cocoa Touch and HTML5 thoroughly outclasses Flash.

      It's also far from clear that supporting Flash would be to Apple's benefit, and a watered-down version would be even worse.

      Apple's benefit? Of course, they'd rather have you use their proprietary APIs. But isn't their customers' benefit what really matters?

      The customer's benefit is Apple's benefit. If Apple does a good job of seeing to the needs of their customers, they will sell more products, and as it turns out, they do sell very, very well. It's only in monopoly-like situations where a company can blatantly work against their customers' needs, like Microsoft (not so much of a monopoly anymore, and surprise, surprise, Windows 7 doesn't completely suck, and IE is becoming more secure and standards-compliant!), or Comcast.

      Apple has no monopoly, so they have to actually create products that are innately attractive to consumers.

      As for the watered-down version: again, you're ignoring Flash Lite, which is certainly better than no Flash at all.

      How am I ignoring it? I addressed it right there. And no, it's not clear at all that it's better than nothing. No Flash means no Flash. Flash Lite means some Flash works and some doesn't. And that doesn't even address the issue of most Flash being entirely unsuitable for multitouch.

      Better to just have none of it than to have a broken, incompatible variant. And the proper, official variant is by no means compelling at this point. If Adobe can make a version that runs nicely on mobile hardware and integrates properly with multitouch, the case for Apple to include it would be more reasonable. But right now, the existing Flash 10.1 for Android does not make a compelling case for it.

    2. Re:Flash already exists on mobile by Mr2001 · · Score: 2, Informative

      And neither of those are cases "where Flash is technologically better than both of those".

      Sorry, I won't play your pointless semantic games. Flash is more portable than Apple's proprietary Cocoa Touch, and it's more powerful than HTML5. As a result, there are plenty of cases where it's the best choice out of all three for a given project; whether or not it's the best in all respects simultaneously is irrelevant.

      As a solution for iPhone, iPod touch, and iPad, the combination of Cocoa Touch and HTML5 thoroughly outclasses Flash.

      Sure, if you ignore the issue of portability -- which is exactly what Apple wants you to do.

      And no, it's not clear at all that it's better than nothing. No Flash means no Flash. Flash Lite means some Flash works and some doesn't.

      Yes, and some is better than none. Which part of that don't you understand?

      And that doesn't even address the issue of most Flash being entirely unsuitable for multitouch.

      That's because it's a red herring. The only "issue" with Flash on a touch screen is hover effects, which are certainly not vital to "most Flash". And HTML has hover effects too, so your logic would also have us abandon HTML in favor of some other proprietary Apple technology.

      --
      Visual IRC: Fast. Powerful. Free.
    3. Re:Flash already exists on mobile by dwightk · · Score: 1

      Flash Lite is a video player that can do a very little more

      --
      Like anyone can even know that
    4. Re:Flash already exists on mobile by Albatrosses · · Score: 1

      And HTML has hover effects too, so your logic would also have us abandon HTML in favor of some other proprietary Apple technology.

      Ooh! Ooh! Can we abandon HTML in favor of HTML5?

    5. Re:Flash already exists on mobile by Mr2001 · · Score: 1

      Depends on what you want to use it for, I guess. It reportedly plays Homestar Runner, MySpace Music, and at least some of the games on Newgrounds. Like I said, it's not as good as the full Flash Player, but it's definitely better than nothing.

      --
      Visual IRC: Fast. Powerful. Free.
  43. An Apple Article A Day Keeps Fanbois At Bay....... by pandrijeczko · · Score: 1

    Bearing in mind that most of what Apple sells is bought by kids and teenagers who never venture onto Slashdot, leaving a minority of fanbois who do, why-oh-why do we have to keep putting up with these "zero content" articles every day just so we can be constantly reminded that Apple exist in the first place?

    But I'll bite anyway...

    1. Comparisons to TV purchases in 1959 are meaningless figures unless you take into account the relative populations of the USA then and now. Also, you probably should look at the relative costs of TVs then and Apple devices now, based on the fact that people, in general, have a lot more disposable income now than they did then.

    2. I have a MythTV box at home (here in the UK) that has both satellite and terrestrial capture cards in it, I can receive and record TV from both sources, as well as from the Internet, and I understand you can do pretty much the same thing with PVR software on Windows. In either case, these exist already and give you far more freedom with what you view than just a single provider.

    3. Why would any company going into TV broadcasting over the Internet restrict viewing of it to just a single subset of devices? Why would they not create client software for Windows, and possibly Linux, if they could charge each user for the service? Surely it would be commercial suicide not to do it that way? And if broadcasting is available to multiple clients, why is the number of Apple unit sales important, since it would still be a small fraction of the number of users viewing through Windows?

    4. This service makes absolutely no sense whatsoever unless you have the facility to watch live-streamed video wherever and whenever you want - otherwise people will just keep doing what they do at the moment which is download stuff and transfer it to a portable device where they can watch it at their leisure (and you don't need anything by Apple to do that). You can't stream live video when you're on an aircraft, if you're traveling anywhere then it depends on having good wi-fi coverage wherever you go (and the ability to hop seamlessly between wi-fi networks as you move) plus the cellular network, whilst having better coverage than wi-fi, is not geared up to stream video and gets very expensive very quickly when you do it.

    5. What's the *ACTUAL* news here? So a new TV service provider is going to stream video over the Internet - big deal, wake me up when it's something that hasn't been done before...

    --
    Gentoo Linux - another day, another USE flag.
  44. If you are writing about it... by Wyatt+Earp · · Score: 1

    Spell it correctly.

    DuMont, not Dumont.

    DuMont Television Network

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DuMont_Television_Network

    They invented the idea of TV commercials rather than someone sponsoring a program.

  45. Re:An Apple Article A Day Keeps Fanbois At Bay.... by Wyatt+Earp · · Score: 1

    1. US population in 1950 was 151,325,798 and in 1960 179,323,175, An iPhone at $300 today is equal to 40 dollars in 1960, while 40 wasn't disposable then, a color table top was about 500 dollars- '60 RCA: $495 (21") or $3,635.88 today

    http://www.tvhistory.tv/tv-prices.htm
    http://www.dollartimes.com/calculators/inflation.htm

    2. You can't do that while mobile, which is what an iPhone/iPod Touch/iPad do, so it's Apples and Oranges

    3. Its really the Flash/HTML 5 argument. Until Windows and Linux go mobile with this big of an installed base, theres no point in bringing them into this

    5. Yes, its a stupid article. /. keeps posting Apple articles because Cmdr Taco went Apple back...oh...around the time 10.1 or 10.2 came out. And believe or not but alot of techies use Apples, not just fanbois. My entire state agency is Apple.

  46. huge and wild speculation by erroneus · · Score: 1

    I am guessing the author never paid a mobile phone/broadband bill. I haven't paid for cable TV in at least 20 years. I object to the notion that I will have to pay to see advertising. If Apple pushes advertising over its devices, it would mean all the more reason to feel justified in never having owned one. (Still, my main reason for not owning one is the non-removable battery issue... I once owned a Sony Clie' -- sweet hi-res Palm OS device... battery couldn't be changed by the user, device discontinued, device completely useless. For that and other reasons I will never buy another Sony anything... or anything else with a non-removable battery)

    If Apple wants to push advertisements over their devices, I say "go ahead" because I won't be listening or watching. I suspect that most people are brain-dead enough to accept it; to keep paying their "unlimited"* internet bill and their "unlimited"** mobile data plan and keep on enjoying their iProducts.

    Please, no one tell me about Apple's battery replacement service. There are OTHER reasons I want to be able to replace my battery such as being able to ACTUALLY turn it off, to prevent it from bursting into flames and to be able to have a spare battery in case of emergencies.

  47. Apple by oshkrozz · · Score: 1

    I think what most people are not realizing is that Apple is Steve Jobs and his life span is decreasing at a rapid rate now. When he reaches his end of life cycle that will also end Apple as a company since the two are one and the same. He left once before and pretty much everyone who can think long term remembers what happened. Yes they have popular products but they are not innovators they did not invent these products, they did not push the technical envelope in the field. They are a marketing company and Steve Jobs is very good at it. However with him gone that will be left to the normally greedy shareholders that have driven many good companies into oblivion. (and guess what I am sure during his funeral i-stuff will support flash as a fond farewell to him).

  48. Numbers... by RichiH · · Score: 1

    I am not saying that the number are not impressive, or that iTV is not right around the corner, but I sold more cell phones in 2010 (one) than the entire market in 1959 ;)

    Similarly, there are a _lot_ more devices out there that can display video than the mere 100 million iXs. Again, not saying this is not a large install base, but the comparision was useless, imo.

  49. Garbage by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Great, another source of mindless crap to make future generations fatter, lazier, and less intelligent than ever before. I can't wait to never watch it.

  50. Apple network by alfredo · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Ever since Jobs returned, Apple has been about delivering content. They didn't want to take over enterprise, they wanted to take over Hollywood. I think it would be a great idea if Apple could compete with the cable companies. Most cable companies have no competition within their regions and can gouge us at will. We need Apple or some other entity to challenge them.

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    photosMy Photostream
  51. the power of N:M vs 1:N by crovira · · Score: 1

    Broadcasting of information from a single source over a scarce resource fundamentally puts up gates, gatekeepers and imposes an economic structure over the free flow of information. (It doesn't matter if its a rented town crier, paper, radio or stone tablet, its all scarce and controllable. It describes a monopoly or at best an oligopoly.)

    The true power of the internet lies in subsuming the existing oligopolistic business models since N:M includes the ability of 1:N existentially.

    The facts that the digital revolution happened and that the transmission of data is being done at a much lower cost point is at the heart of the problems that the existing oligopolies are having.

    The media companies are only having problems with the revenue side of the equation, not the expense side. They love that it lowered their costs. They hate that it limited their sales.

    It wouldn't be so bad for them if we had no consumer class devices, but we do. Devices like the iPod, the iPhone, the iPad and similar devices are all terminal points on the internet.

    We can now connect to the internet and using the web and other open, or semi-open, protocols can access data regardless of its actual rendering.

    The mechanical transcription of content over some analog media is dead! Long live the digital file!

    McLuhan is dead! Long live post-McLuhan!

    --
    MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
    1. Re:the power of N:M vs 1:N by FuckingNickName · · Score: 1

      Yes, all it needs is a mining operation, a billion dollar chip fab, ten thousand Chinese slave labourers, thousands of miles of cabling, routing hubs in every major city (often connected to mysterious boxes no-one's allowed to question), a few spacecraft, half a dozen multinationals, and the political stability and friendliness of all nations housing this equipment... for information to be "free".

      No, if it's freedom you're worried about, give me radio any day. All you need is two men with basic electronics knowledge, a cupboard of old parts and a vague understanding of the ionosphere. Modern freedom of speech is nothing more than the freedom to speak sufficiently quietly that those with real power drown you out.

      (For a case study in how much freedom the Internet really gives you, observe the history of Wikileaks. It's interesting to observe that, no matter how much people feel the Internet has opened our eyes and with the exception of a couple of web sites which can barely stay afloat, there's very little we couldn't have found from traditional well-known sources.)

  52. Yeah, and the FCC regulating the airwaves. by crovira · · Score: 1

    Don't tell me you like the fact that if you want to start a radio station you need a certified course, a license, sponsors, a production studio, transmitters, radio towers, etcetera. Basically LOTS of $ for an evanescent footprint in the consciousness of the masses.

    Your fiction of "two men with basic electronics knowledge" would land you in jail in every country on this planet.

    N:M isn't about what wikileaks tell you but about the fact that there can even be a wikileaks.

    I don't imagine ANY commercial sponsor for that kind of content and radio runs first and foremost on money.

    With the internet its possible for an individual to make a difference in the world.

    Apart from that, as Liebling said "the power of the press belongs to those who OWN one" and have been able to enter into the distribution and promotion deals that will at least grant you access to the masses.

    --
    MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
    1. Re:Yeah, and the FCC regulating the airwaves. by FuckingNickName · · Score: 1

      Don't tell me you like the fact that if you want to start a radio station you need a certified course, a license...

      Well, I have an amateur "radio station", though not a broadcast station, and indeed for it to be legal I had to pass some exams (no course) and obtain a free licence - the lower classes are a weekend's work from nothing. I certainly don't need sponsors, towers or a studio to speak to people in hundreds of countries across the world.

      Your fiction of "two men with basic electronics knowledge" would land you in jail in every country on this planet.

      For a broadcast station? No. For example, the FCC (US) and Radiocoms Agency (now Ofcom) used to care quite a lot about pirate stations - yet they still operated and became famous. Now they are much less concerned about pirate stations, and they continue to pop up.

      But radio waves don't respect borders, and it's the stations hosted in a neighbouring country to which an unofficial blind eye is turned which have the most interesting status.

      N:M isn't about what wikileaks tell you but about the fact that there can even be a wikileaks.

      Wikileaks' troubled history has proven that there cannot be a Wikileaks. When it's actually up, we see it to contain mostly low-level tactical/technical sources and very little confirming strategy. Documents are demanded but not made fully available during endless funding drives, and money is channeled without the very transparency it expects from others.

  53. Re:As someone whos house receives TEN GB A MONTH.. by Gilmoure · · Score: 1

    AT&T's helping me not use up my bandwidth by not having any signal within 5 miles of my house. But they did offer to piggy back their signal on my network connection, for just $150.

    Gee, AT&T is nice!

    --
    I drank what? -- Socrates