Slashdot Mirror
University Networks Block Student Project
An anonymous reader writes "A computer science student at University College London put together FitFinder as a bit of a joke — it's been described as a cross between Twitter and personal ads, and it rapidly became very popular. The university took exception to this and started by blocking the site from being accessed on campus. Not content with this, a few weeks later it fined the student £300 and had him take the site down completely. Currently, the site is still offline, although there is a petition with several thousand signatures requesting its return. In the meantime, a site called PhitFinder has appeared, claiming to have no link to the original."
Just release the code and let people play with it. The uni won't be able to block every site. Now that's Phat!
Well, I'd say it sounds more like a cross between twitter and a creepy stalker organisation, but maybe I'm over-sensitive.
It are happen in Europe.
Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
"A computer science student at University College London " dot dot dot, this is from london, which as my understanding goes, is 'part' albeit separated by sea, of europe.
ZOOOOOM!!!!!
Didn't read the article, did you?
"The average reporter we talk to is 27 years old......They literally know nothing." - Ben Rhodes
University College London isn't in America.
Can you see why?
Azural - instrumentals
This is not the club with which to bash America you are looking for.
An American thing? Read the article. This is in England.
Go green: turn off your refrigerator.
If you are old enough to attend college/university you are old enough to do whatever you want. Stop "babysitting" and let students do whatever they please. Universities and colleges exist to educate people and hand them a piece of paper letting them get a job. Thats all they should do. Let students think for themselves, give them facts and have them make their own opinion and do what they want with them.
Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
Ya know, I really don't reply much, but the whole "anti-american" thing has gone too far when the damned summary includes something that tells anybody that knows anything about currency that this is not US thing. Here, allow me to quote it:
You might be especially interested in the currency indicator. That "£" symbol is used to denote the UK currency unit called the "pound". Over in the actual article (I know, nobody ever reads it, but I still did), they say this:
So, at least in this case, no, it is not an "american thing". It is, most definitely, a "London thing". As London is considerably closer to Europe (and, being part of the UK, is considered to be part of Europe) than any part of the USA, I would have to venture that your assertion
is now verified to be false. In fact, it might be so far false that this could be considered to be a "European thing", though I'm not sure I'd take it that far myself.
GPL made simple: What was my stuff is now our stuff. If you improve our stuff, please keep it our stuff.
Because we don't call our schools "University College"?
I read TFA and all I got was this lousy cookie
London isn't necessarily where you think it is.
London, Ontario, Canada.
The London Bridge which was sold and shipped from the UK to Arizona.
London, Ohio
London, Kentucky.
London, Arizona
London, California.
There are more Londons in the US than in the UK.
There's a university with far too much power.
"In prison you just have to shut your eyes and take it. Here you have to shut your eyes and give it."
And nothing of value was lost...
That's a zillion buck idea he had up and running! He should have told them to stuff it. That would have made the site even more popular as word of his telling "the man" to f off spread around his users and their friends. Plenty of time later to go get all the degrees ya want once you are rolling in dough.
So, he violated the university's disciplinary code, correct? Well, either he did violate the code, or he didn't. In either case, I hope he fights it. If the former, the code needs to be changed.
Wait, does the UK have free speech like America?
In any situation, it's defaming to his character.
No. That's not valid because those towns wouldn't deliberately create the confusion involved. It's a sound assumption that an institution with "London" in its name hails from the approximate geographical site of Londinium.
I can see the University taking it down, I wouldn't want to be hosting that either. But as far as the fine goes, what the hell. I really do wonder how that would stand up in court, presumably this is being called some kind of disciplinary measure, but it's a hell of a weird form of academic discipline, and one that I would suspect opens them up to bias accusations (what with limited ability to way and all).
According to the article, the student was fined £300, only the UK uses pounds to my knowledge...
Oh really? How many University of Kent, or University of Canterburys are there?
You are absolutely right. Nevertheless, it tells much when everybody automatically assumes this is an American thing.
So phitfinder doesn't filter html code, iframe of slashdot works just fine. Thanks.
A university spokesman said: “UCL does not approve of or condone this site. We therefore advised the student to take the site down, but he declined to do this. UCL has no jurisdiction over the site, as it is not UCL-hosted. We have, however, taken disciplinary action against the student for bringing the college into disrepute and he has been fined.”
Another triumph for Slashdot accuracy...
Yea, that there are stereotypes caused by constant battering of propaganda from the media.
There are more Londons in the US than in the UK.
There is only one London I know of that uses the GBP, and it just so happens to be the same one that University College London is in.
Sounds an awful lot like breach of contract -- he agreed to pay a certain amount of money in exchange for the university's services, but now the university is refusing to deliver those services unless he pays more than originally agreed upon.
From the media? I don't know which media you are watching, but the only medium I get this stereotype from is Slashdot.
And no, I'm not in America. So that's no explanation.
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
The solution for every censorship problem of websites and software. =)
From TFA:
Dean of Welfare (Students), wrote: “Following the serious complaints brought to this institution regarding the contents of the site and your association with it, I find myself having to bring a charge under UCL’s Disciplinary Code of Bringing the College into Disrepute. Therefore I am fining you £300.”
IANAL but AFAIK private organisations in the UK cannot enforce fines - that's a privilege open exclusively to the government. And the nation's universities are essentially private institutions (albeit receiving heavy state funding).
Having said that, if the university I went to was any guide they'll probably have something in their rules which states that if you owe them so much as a penny on graduation day, you don't graduate. And though they may not be able to get a judge to force him to pay, I have no idea if he'd be able to get a judge to force them to write off the £300 "fine".
Never said media. But Slashdot is part of a world wide society. And if something stupid like this happens, many people automatically think 'America'. So what do you think this could mean?
Yes, but if someone says London without specifying a state or nation, typically we assume that they mean the greater London area around the capital of the UK. It being a major financial centre, a major university town, one of the worlds largest 20 cities (with a population well in excess of every other London added together). The only typical exception being when you are in the general vicinity of another London.
As London is considerably closer to Europe (and, being part of the UK, is considered to be part of Europe) than any part of the USA
Not everyone in Europe (or UK, for that matter) would agree with that..
I was playing around with PhitFinder and I totally accidentally made it forward to slashdot.
Sorry.
'For we walk by faith, not by sight.' II Corinthians 5:7
you are good at not answering the question. okay it was in london, but what has the university to do with the student's project?
Even calling this thing a "project" in the headline and "a bit of a joke" once it's suckered in the readership reeks of the kind of deceitful tactics we don't expect (or want) on /. It would be nice to see better judgment and control over the stories - even on the weekend. Better no news than stuff like this.
politicians are like babies' nappies: they should both be changed regularly and for the same reasons
Today is not one of those days.
degree may be put in jeopardy? just shows what joke schools have become.
Just Stand for your rights and who cares if if you list you have a degree but just they are holding it over some non course work stuff. What if you got a job and they later found out you failed the swim test and did not fully get the degree over that?
Yes, but universities aren't private institutions. And UK law can be quite specific when it comes to legal status of universities. Not sure whether this affects anything, but you can't draw conclusions based on the legal status of a typical privately owned establishment.
BTW, take a stroll through NYC, Chicago, SF, LA or any other major US city and behold the stupid, ignorant tourist. They're not just American, although you'll see plenty of them too.
Don't consider it a "European thing", as i think I could find something similar about the US within the last couple of months and restricting myself to Slashdot.
OTOH, if you wanted to call it an "Authoritarian thing" I'd be hard pressed to deny it.
P.S.: Unlike in traditional usage, "authoritarian" doesn't distinguish between left wing and right wing. Modern left-wingers can be just as authoritarian as their right-wing opponents. WWII pretty much saw the end of that particular association...though the 1960's featured a moderate revival.
P.P.S.: I have a strong suspicion that the association of authoritarianism with either left or right wing, and by implication it's opposite with the opponents of such, is pretty much an artifact of historical perspective. Groups not in power tend to oppose the centralization of power. Groups currently holding it then to support it. Left or right wing, or even anarchist, probably doesn't make any difference, though it may well make a difference in the means used to centralize the power.
I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
Crazy is only treatable by death. Kill yourself before you relapse and begin another bout of madness and misery. A dry dive off something tall is a quick rush, like bungee jumping, followed by instant nirvana.
You will feel nothing, no one will miss you, and you will know it was a grand gesture befitting a noble person such as yourself.
"This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
You're quite the smug idiot, aren't you?
They can't enforce fines in the sense of sending men with guns to take it from his house if he doesn't pay up, but I don't see what prevents them from just adding $300 to his tuition.
In the UK a collegiate university means a university built up of individual colleges (a college is not synonymous with university in British English)
UCL is one college which forms part of the university of London. Hence it's a college of a university in Lodon. Or specifically, a university college of London [University]
So yeah. Given college != university the above isn't really that funny
It tells that in their elitist Eurohubris they are sure that the knuckledragging Yanks really ARE the Great Satan, and that no one would dare fuck about with THEIR civil liberties that way.
Want to piss off everyone? Remind them how free they aren't.
"This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
Not really. I wouldn't expect to see this action by a US university, unless it was in a bible-thumper state. And not because of "freedom of expression" or some other silly little teenager sentiment, but because the university would rightfully fear being sued.
Don't confuse .uk with .eu.
I don't think that this kind of thing is actually regulated on the european level. At least here in Sweden it would be very hard for a university to do something like that (have a hard time believing they would actually want to do something like that) but I guess there is a different situation in England.
By "we," I was referring to America, not the UK.
I read TFA and all I got was this lousy cookie
go to any average canadian or american city and you will see people walking around with many more pounds on their beltline than your average european
additionally, ukians don't even use pounds, they use a fascist communist terrorist socialist system called kilograms. luckily here in the usa we are still a free country and we use pounds for measurement, as god intended
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
Maybe you should remind us all (I'm American, BTW) how free the US is and Europe isn't. Because what you may believe to be free, Europeans might think of as oppressive. And they'll have their own "freedoms" that we don't.
The world just isn't that black and white.
We did overcome this and EW-TOO based talkers are STILL alive!
No they cannot enforce it in terms of sending in the bailiffs. But they can withhold the degree, which is substantially more threatening. Maybe you could get it back via the courts, but I wouldn't bet on it and it really will not do you any favours when your next potential boss calls for a reference.
Universities (the good ones anyway) in the UK are about the research and the students are a pest they tolerate for the funding. Departments are ran on egos and committee politics. Bow to the egos and pay the fine, or appeal if you think you can manipulate the committee politics (highly unlikely unless you are at least phd student who knows the committees, or are friends with somebody who donated a building recently).
There is a University College that is part of Rutgers University. "University" and "College" are both words. They have meaning.
Thank god there is awesomeproxy.com
No idea? Why don't you tell us. Is the answer one, and one?
That would mean students are old enough to know that they should buy an account at an ISP for their site. This means the students can enjoy freedom from University policy/control, own the domain name and site code, and keep the site up after the student is no longer affiliated with the University. In the US one can get this level of service for under $10/month; it's hard for some university organizations to economically justify competing with that low price.
I don't know UCL's complete logic here, and I don't represent them. But in the US many public universities are facing hard financial times right now. Given fiscal realities tough choices have to be made about how to prioritize dwindling resources including staff time. It's not reasonable to expect that some for-fun project is going to get the attention and resources of staff and faculty work (which is rapidly being homogenized into whatever services can be delivered campus-wide, not custom setups for a particular person/group).
Digital Citizen
You are absolutely right. Nevertheless, it tells much when everybody automatically assumes this is an American thing.
You are absolutely right. Nevertheless, it tells much when everybody automatically assumes this is an American thing.
All it tells is you're reading a primely American website and commenting with prejudice.
The Timesonline server took too long to respond for me (now it works) and I missed the quote at the end of that article where the unnamed Univ. spokesman said that "UCL has no jurisdiction over the site, as it is not UCL-hosted.". Now I see that that aspect of the issue isn't the center of this debate. It's good that Martell hosted his site elsewhere.
Digital Citizen
Standing up for your rights is one thing, but I'd also argue: Choose your battles wisely.
In any situation where there is a huge imbalance of power (which there is in this case - the student has paid his tuition fees for the year and there's no obligation for the university to actually hand over the degree certificate), the one thing you do not do if you're in the less-powerful position is piss off the person in the more-powerful position - unless you want to wind up being thoroughly crushed. You make sure the balance of power is restored and then you start pissing them off.
I'm wondering - if you were to pay under protest and then sue for the money back at a later date (which is quite possible to do in the UK if you're over a barrel), the statute of limitations is six years. Hypothetically (and IANAL), he could pay up under protest now and sue once he's graduated.
In the UK a collegiate university means a university built up of individual colleges (a college is not synonymous with university in British English)
UCL is one college which forms part of the university of London. Hence it's a college of a university in Lodon. Or specifically, a university college of London [University]
So yeah. Given college != university the above isn't really that funny
College is not synonymous with university in America either. In fact, I'd say the definitions agree, however we do not use the term "collegiate university". Syracuse University in New York has a University College as well (http://www.suce.syr.edu/).
Yes, that people are fucking idiots.
Since the guy got fined a small amount of money without any real chance of an appeal (what so ever) and not threatened to get sued for a much larger amount of money, forced to settle for a large amount still, without any real economical chance (what so ever) of an appeal, this is obviously an "European thing".
it's just text posted from http://www.softwareproblem.org/solution/catch-me-if-you-can.html
-Malakai
A Dragon Lives in my Garage
1) Because tuition isnt set by the university
2) Because, even if it was, it would be breach of contract
Now what you have instead is the archaic "we withold your results unless you pay up" - however a FoIA request should clear that up, if pressed.
even more fun, in France, le collège = Junior High School (12-15). Then comes le lycée (16-18, baccalauréat at the end), then l'université (ou une Grande Ecole).
Maybe an idea for a Community knock off (best comedy series of the year that one): not "I got my degree from Colo/umbia, and now they want met to get one from the US", but "my collège degree from France is no longer enough, I've got to go to College in the US, too".
The Cloud - because you don't care if your apps and data are up in the air.
TimesOnline says FitFinder was started a month ago. Almost a month ago today, the webcomic "Doomed to Obscurity" posted this strip launching a story arc about a character joining a "Twitter dating pool." Later strips even imply that somebody used it to post a NSFW image. The timing is eerily close, so either the app inspired the strip or the strip inspired the app.
If you still think the US's actions in any war up to and including WWII were anything but self-serving, I think you still have a lot to learn. Actually, why limit it to the US? All nations' actions are self-serving.
Hell, quite often in WWII the US's aim wasn't to win the war or achieve an objective, but to one-up their competition/allies for purpose of national pride, regardless of the lives lost in a general's juvenile pursuit.
By stifling a creative and enterprising endeavour the UCL brings it's self into disrepute.
Every week you hear about football clubs fining players for bad behaviour. This guy accepted the University's terms and conditions when he signed up for his course. So if that makes provision for this sort of punishment for this sort of activity he can either pay up or get out.
politicians are like babies' nappies: they should both be changed regularly and for the same reasons
In America the corporate state takes away your rights. Europe has the government for that. Either way you lose.
93rd rule of Slashdot: No matter how obvious my sarcasm is, my comment will be taken seriously by someone.
It's their understandable embarrassment over having to have the US save their asses twice in the last century.
Actually, no. It's the way you guys pissed away every last shred of credibility in the years following 9/11, which is quite an accomplishment. You get attacked, you have the entire civilized world on your side, and within a few years you manage to piss every last one of us off to the extent that saying "we're going to distance ourselves just a wee bit from the US" is a surefire way of grabbing a few more votes.
I honestly doubt Osama bin Laden could have possibly imagined just how much of a success his attack would turn out to be. He set the opportunity for the US to show the world what it is all about and well, it did.
People replying to my sig annoy me. That's why I change it all the time.
They are "taking actions to seriously discourage the project", which is certainly not "blocking" in an IT sense, but is arguably MORE significant.
There are at least two University of Canterbury's - There is one in Christchurch, New Zealand, which is in the province of Canterbury.
and then sue the UK government under the human rights act (\the convention if he has to go to strasbourg) for not protecting him from it in the first place.
FGD 135
If you care about killing a few thousand ragheads, you've wussed out.
Remember "Bomber" Harris and other Euros who actually had balls, dedication, and didn't sweat the death of "enemy civilians" (as opposed to pretending they are something different)? Harsh people like HIM got you your current cozy position, not postwar legalist nonsense and the UN.
Enjoy your cultural collapse. Happy Eurabia!
"This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
that doesn't invalidate the fact that he's a crazy kook who ought to kill himself before he kills someone else.
Remember "Bomber" Harris and other Euros who actually had balls
You mean the mad nutter who frittered away thousands of aircrews lives and thousands of bombers on attacking civilian targets on the ill-concieved mission of trying to 'break' the morale of a people living under a totalitarian regime? The one who was itching to get 'his' bombers released from militarilly beneficial duties in the spring\summer of 1944 supporting the invasion so that he could continue his insane mission to bomb Germany's cities into ruins (which we had to pay to fix again). It wasn't even like he tried to obliterate somewhere worth obliterating like Essen. He just tied up valuable personnel and resources on a fools quest to do what had already been proved impossible and actively opposed any sensible use of the forces under his command.
The allies won the war inspite of Arthur Harris, not because of him.
FGD 135
While generally true, there is at least one counterexample: University of Maryland University College.
Three days from now?? Thats tomorrow!! ~Peter Griffin
No they cannot enforce it in terms of sending in the bailiffs. But they can withhold the degree, which is substantially more threatening. Maybe you could get it back via the courts, but I wouldn't bet on it and it really will not do you any favours when your next potential boss calls for a reference.
And the Queen can declare war on the U.S. That's highly theoretical, though.
In reality this seems bound to earn them public ridicule and the scorn of their students. I'd guess the other students won't be too thrilled if they perceive that the university is withholding degrees for frivolous reasons.
CMU had a similar site pop up entitled "Before We Leave", which to my knowledge has not garnered any scorn from the administration.
From their FAQ page:
Life should be lived with no regrets. Undoubtedly there are people that you know (or know of) that you've always wanted to 'encounter' physically. With graduation right around the corner, these final weeks are your last chance. This site is devoted to facilitating those encounters.
So... you enter the andrew IDs of the top five people you have always wanted to get with. If they also list you in their top five, we will email both of you-- the rest is up to you. If nobody matches with you, c'est la vie-- at least you tried. It's as simple as that.
Your top five are safe: your desires will only be revealed if the other person also desires you. Otherwise they will be kept secret forever.
At least they are copying Facebook's business model:
Sot don't worry. Think of the fine, as an ante. It put you on the front page of Slashdot. If you can turn this into a partial success, then all will be forgiven. They'll quickly turn from threats of fines to requests for donations and departmental funding.
That "juvenile pursuit" saved the few French who didn't collaborate with the Nazis from having to explain to their grandchildren why their neighbors were so quick to welcome the Third Reich.
"Table for 15,000? Right this way, Monseiur Führer".
You are welcome on my lawn.
how can the just arbitrarily withhold a degree. they should be murdered or put in jail at best.
Because we don't call our schools "University College"?
Mitchell314, meet University of Maryland University College.
SWM seeks new sig for a brief fling
Talking to my Dad the other day, he describe a cousin of mine as "a good kid"... the problem? He's 31 years old! See, anybody who's had kids will always see the friends of their kids as kids. Which wouldn't be much of a problem except for the increasing longevity of people.
See, the average age of people has been climbing for a long time, and is currently about 55. So, more and more, college students are "college kids". And the "legal age" of 18 becomes increasingly irrelevant as more power is wielded by an increasingly aging population who think of 31 year olds as kids.
I have no problem with your religion until you decide it's reason to deprive others of the truth.
FoIA request should clear that up, if pressed.
Those reports won't work for getting into grad school and such. You need an official sealed transcript, and nothing else will work.
Learn to love Alaska
Actually Lebanon uses the pound too and the same symbol too.
Though frequently (for international publication) they will write it as L£ for clarity's sake
Ouch
Because they went to that sissy metric system and we don't cotton their type around here?
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
Over in the actual article (I know, nobody ever reads it, but I still did), they say this:
The /. summary also says this:
"A computer science student at University College London..."
There was no need to read the actual article to know that this did not take place in the United States
There are more Londons in the US than in the UK.
Yes, but University College London isn't in any of those.
Or they could be assuming the City of London, in the UK, which is the smallest city in the UK (just over a mile square), and has a tiny population (less than 8,000).
it is common for UK universities to withhold you degree until you have paid any outstanding library fines, so i guess this would be similar. They have no legal force to make him pay, but he will probably pay £300 rather than loose his degree.
That's basically correct. This will come as a surprise to Americans but British universities can and do fine students. The way it works is simply that if you don't pay you get kicked out of the university and the agreement you sign up to when you start the course allows them to do this. You are always free to just leave the university and forget the fine.
" We have, however, taken disciplinary action against the student for bringing the college into disrepute and he has been fined.”
A similar line has been used by our local university recently. They can catch you any way they like using this. Its much like a bad EULA - you just agree because you are progressing thru university after high school. Next thing its biting you in the ass for that slightly too raucous 1st year party, or that thesis that, while your are not a Holocaust denier, your thesis questioned a tiny part of the operational detail.
Whether it be the local city council complaining about vomit in local shop doorways, or the local Jewish Church, "Bringing the college into desrepute" appeases the complainers without mobilizing academic stalwarts.
And in an age where its all about funding and conveyor belt course, this EULA catches the ne'er do wells. And stepping outside the academic square costs resources. Thats not desirable.
In post Patriot Act America, the library books scan you.
So, at least in this case, no, it is not an "american thing". It is, most definitely, a "London thing".
In London it's actually a "London Ting"...
Who's with me?! I SAID... WHO'S WITH ME!!??
Or they could be assuming the City of London, in the UK, which is the smallest city in the UK (just over a mile square), and has a tiny population (less than 8,000).
That's never referred to as just "London" in the UK, especially in London. It's normally called "The City".
University College London is in Bloomsbury, a little north-west of the City.
You are absolutely right. Nevertheless, it tells much when everybody automatically assumes this is an American thing.
Ya, it tells us that the US doesn't have a monopoly on assholes and idiots who will leap to conclusions and allow their preconceptions to cloud their thinking.
The WHOIS database entry shows the domain name was registered on 02 June, about a month after the Uni started blocking fitfinder
Well, I'd say it sounds more like a cross between twitter and a creepy stalker organisation, but maybe I'm over-sensitive.
That's not a cross, that's just redundant.
There are more Londons in the US than in the UK.
In the same vein, Vatican City has two popes per square kilometre...
"Good news, everyone!"
I agree with your point, but note that many companies will give a charge to customers, which basically feels like a fine - most notably for late charges, e.g., to credit card companies.
I assume the point is that in these cases, they could theoretically sue you, so a fine is something a customer chooses as a cheaper option. But the problem is that customers may be scared into paying a fine, even if it's not clear if they'd have to pay any damages.
Another problem is how one sided it is. I've had cases where companies have overcharged me, and then not immediately refunded money - in some cases, they don't at all, and merely credit it against your next bill. Do they pay a fine? Of course not.
Similarly, some companies charge you if they send someone round for a repair, and you're not in. Yet if you stay in, and then they don't turn up, you don't get to fine them.
Having said all that, I don't see how this logic applies to this case. I don't see any grounds why the University could sue the student.
FitFinder was a social networking website primarily based in the United Kingdom. FitFinder is described by its creators as localised anonymous microblogging. FitFinder is based on the concept of anonymously posting both a location and description of an attractive person who one has spotted; this post is then immediately placed on the FitFeed, where it can be viewed by anyone.
Spot on. Base 12 forevah.
I read TFA and all I got was this lousy cookie
Usually people aren't referring to the city itself. Aside from a few landmarks (London Bridge, the Tower of London), most of the places and organisations associated with London are in Greater London.
You didn't. The Anonymous Coward I answered to did.
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.