Computex 2010 Tablet PC Round-Up With Video

MojoKid writes "At Computex 2010, devices like the Eee Pad and Eee Tablet were all the rage. Of course the bulk of these were Intel Atom-based systems, but there were a number of NVIDIA Tegra 2-based models in the mix as well. What is glaringly apparent on all of these tablets — and absent on the iPad — are the multitude of connectivity options built into them, like USB ports, flash card readers, and video output ports. Obviously, from a hardware perspective, the iPad is a sexy device; but Apple's true mastery is that of the user interface. The first big player that steps up with something competitive to Apple in that regard will have the pole position in 2010's race for the hot re-emergent tablet market." Reader Raikus adds an opinionated summary of winners and losers at "Tabletpalooza," i.e. Computex 2010.

Comments

Interesting quote from the summary

[DJRumpy]

I think it would be more accurate to say that Apple already has the pole position (no pun intended), and that any new competitors would be the runner up until proven otherwise.

"The first big player that steps up with something competitive to Apple in that regard will have the pole position in 2010's race for the hot re-emergent tablet market."

Re:Interesting quote from the summary

[FuckingNickName]

Is Windows purchased because it is technically the best, or because it has the best marketing team aimed at the target market?

Ask yourself the same question about the iPad.

All Apple's taught us is that it's possible to market something so well that even "I gotta be different, man!" geeks are taken in.

Re:Interesting quote from the summary

[Space cowboy]

Neither. It's mainly purchased due to a desire to conform to what the majority have, mainly for interoperability with others (work, gamers, ...). It's purchased because it has the majority of marketshare.

It's tough to make the same claim when Apple went from zero phones in 2007 to what they have today, or the introduction of the iPad which again went from 0 to todays 2 million in a matter of weeks.

Simon.

Re:Interesting quote from the summary

[MarkvW]

That's a ridiculously argumentative question based on a false dichotomy.

I don't buy Windows because it's technically the best AND I don't buy it because it has the best marketing team. I buy Windows because it runs Adobe CS5 and Ableton, and because I am familiar with the Windows interface. Doubtless, other people buy Windows for different reasons.

If your false dichotomy truly represented the only two reasons why people purchase Windows, open source systems would have no trouble displacing Windows.

Fanboi is a modern synonym for eunuch.

Re:Interesting quote from the summary

[DJRumpy]

Yes and no. In two years time, i'm sure some 'android' equivalent will establish itself as a real competitor, and it's fan's will claim that it is the best thing since sliced bread and that nothing Apple does is 'orignal' or 'new', all the while forgetting that their tablet probably has it's roots, and it's very existence based on an attempt to 'best the iPad'. The same is true for the iPhone and the current crop of Android devices.

Simply creating a device is only half the challenge. You also have to do it well, which is where they tend to fall to the wayside.

Re:Interesting quote from the summary

[FuckingNickName]

or the introduction of the iPad which again went from 0 to todays 2 million in a matter of weeks.

That's the best evidence of good marketing I've come across. It's an unproven device which few people had even seen, let alone had the chance to try out, yet preorders and early orders came in by the hundreds of thousands.

People want to conform to a majority brand: the Apple brand offers social interoperability. No-one does real work on an Apple iDevice - they're for the guy in Starbucks always writing his first bestseller, taken mainstream. If you think you're the exception, you're on the spaceship with the management consultants (how I miss '70s and '80s Apple..).

Re:Interesting quote from the summary

[node 3]

That's the best evidence of good marketing I've come across. It's an unproven device which few people had even seen, let alone had the chance to try out, yet preorders and early orders came in by the hundreds of thousands.

In stores, before you buy an iPad, you can try one. Even before the iPad was announced, you would have experience of the OS from the iPhone. And ultimately, you can return it, if it doesn't meet your expectations.

There's absolutely no way whatsoever Apple's current success can have been achieved primarily by marketing. For marketing to work, long-term, you have to have a great product behind it.

People want to conform to a majority brand: the Apple brand offers social interoperability.

Apple had zero smartphones sold just three years ago. Now they have tens of millions. These people all bought iPhones because it was already a majority consumer brand?

No-one does real work on an Apple iDevice - they're for the guy in Starbucks always writing his first bestseller, taken mainstream.

I can guarantee you more "real work" is done on iOS than on Android OS. But it's a silly metric to use, unless you think that people should only own things that are used for "real work", or that the iPad is primarily targeted as a device for "real work".

"Real work" (whatever that means) is still primarily the role of the PC (whether Windows or Mac). The iPad is useful to augment "real work", but isn't something that's yet set to replace the PC for that purpose. Which is why no one every says it should, outside of those that use it as a reason to put it down.

Re:Interesting quote from the summary

[Albanach]

I would imagine the vast majority of the 2 million were purchased by people who owned an iPhone or iPod Touch and therefore had a pretty good idea of what they were getting.

It certainly wasn't as big an unknown as the first iPhone.

Re:Interesting quote from the summary

[node 3]

I just looked at the iPad specifications on apple.com and couldn't find any mention of an SD slot. Did I miss something?

Yes, but...

I'd really like to know if the iPad does indeed have an SD slot because that might make it worth having. I'm not talking about some kludgey dongle thing that will let me read SD cards, but an actual slot on the side.

It's an adaptor for the dock connector on the bottom of the iPad. It's very compact (much smaller than most USB SD readers). Being able to bring it with me on vacation to sync photos means I can leave my notebook at home, and to me that's *HUGE*.

It's also very well integrated with the Photos app, including supporting RAW files, skipping already imported items, deleting from the card when you're done, syncing photos back to your PC, etc. Yes, these are all things one would expect from a properly done process, but on portables, "properly done process" isn't exactly something you can always count on being the case.

But if you have an aversion to adapters, it's got that going against it. It seems a bit much to me to base the iPad's suitability on one very small adaptor, but to each his own.

Re:Interesting quote from the summary

[hitmark]

iphone piggy backed on itms and ipod, pretty much the same way windows piggy backed on dos and the invetment people had done there.

Re:Interesting quote from the summary

[greenguy]

Apple already has the pole position (no pun intended)

None taken.

Re:Interesting quote from the summary

[UnxMully]

Can you connect an iPad to a projector? I didn't think it had much in the way of connectors.

There's an adaptor for an iPad to VGA connection - http://store.apple.com/uk/product/MC552ZM/A?fnode=MTc0MjU4NjE&mco=MTczMTA1MTE

Re:Interesting quote from the summary

[hairyfeet]

The iPod sold because the other PMPs at the time sucked ass or blew chunk, your choice. One thing I'll give old Steve credit for, he may be an asshole, but that man knows how to get a good UI designed. The players at the time had craploads of buttons, usually menus upon submenus, nothing at all was intuitive or was where you would expect it to be, frankly they all sucked.

As for the other iDevices, never underestimate herd mentality. Sure they work great, nothing wrong with them that I know of, but when my 67 year old dad, who is about as clueless as they come and is about as "cutting edge" as a stone age hammer, says he is thinking about an iPhone cause some of his friends have them and they "look spiffy"? yeah, don't underestimate herd mentality or keeping up with the Joneses. On a positive note, I've been getting all his tech fad hand me downs since he got a Trash 80 when they were all over the TV, so if he wants to play with a new shiny, who am I to stop him? ;-)

Re:Interesting quote from the summary

[PhilHibbs]

A combination of good marketing and a loyal fan base that know that they tend to like Apple products. One person's fanboi is another person's satisfied customer.

Re:Interesting quote from the summary

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

Be aware, though, that(contrary to expectations developed in using PCs, including the OSX-running ones), iPad VGA out doesn't just automatically mirror the internal screen. Support is per-application, and at the application developer's sole discretion. Oh the sob stories from people planning to use the netflix app on a large screen...

iPhad; hardware is sexy?

[hhedeshian]

Obviously, from a shiny perspective, the iPad is a sexy device; but Apple's true mastery is that of the lack of a user interface.

Fixed that for ya.

1. There is nothing sexy about a crippled CPU with no connectivity.

2. People can't handle choices. If you give them a device with only a few buttons, then it's like a microwave and they're happy.

Re:iPhad; hardware is sexy?

[Anonymous Coward]

Obviously, from a shiny perspective, the iPad is a new device; but Apple's true mastery is that of the lack of a user interface.

In what way is an inanimate piece of plastic sexy? It's only advantage is that it does a few tasks adequately.
Everything it does, there is a device that does it better, just not all in one shiny white idiot-proof case.

Anyone know if these have external moisture sensors on them too?

Re:iPhad; hardware is sexy?

[TinBromide]

ditto, the average person wants something that he can poke at and make work. If it's as simple as the interface that biologists provide monkeys in research cells, all the better. He wants to poke at the red square and get a treat, or when he wants other treat, poke at the blue one. Uneducated users are afraid of the unknown, and software that they would have to test and use themselves to determine the quality of is well beyond their knowledge base (unknown = bad). Unless something has been vetted through nerds (us) who have the knowledge and expertise to know quality, OR everybody and their mother uses it, it's unknown and only potentially not ungood.

Unfortunately, until some manufacturer comes out with something that is simple (red square = treat) and as good (face it, the iphone/ipad is quality-ish hardware and its interface does work), the apple products will continue. Just because it lacks a few features that 75% of the population doesn't use (only we wish that we could hook up a keyboard or mouse, everyone will continue to be happy jabbing at the screen instead of jabbing at a keyboard), doesn't mean that something that you can be more productive on will dethrone it.

Re:iPhad; hardware is sexy?

[click2005]

There are only so many things you can do with a tablet form factor.
Other than a button or two and some ports, they're all going to look more or less the same.

Re:iPhad; hardware is sexy?

[PIPBoy3000]

For the majority of consumers, the biggest thing you can do with a tablet form factor is to drop the price.

Re:iPhad; hardware is sexy?

[gyrogeerloose]

only we wish that we could hook up a keyboard or mouse

You can connect an iPod to a keyboard--either Apple's own unit or any standard Bluetooth keyboard will work. No joy on a mouse, though. The touch interface doesn't support one.

Re:iPhad; hardware is sexy?

[Concerned Onlooker]

No, people CAN handle choices. And they're choosing the iPad.

Re:iPhad; hardware is sexy?

[suomynonAyletamitlU]

Wow, a blatant troll at +3 insightful. Well, I suppose it only takes a handful of mods.

1. There is nothing sexy about a crippled CPU with no connectivity.

There is something intriguing, and perhaps sexy from the right viewpoint, about a device that responds instantly and smoothly to your input, and which has consumer-level (finished) applications that look gorgeous. A device that was nothing but "shiny" would have no, or few, practical applications, and any consumer level app is or can be considered a "practical application"--it's something you would pay money to do, use, or have. Or, well, not any, I guess, but I think the size of the market supposes pretty clearly, if only by sheer virtue of statistics, that there are in fact practical applications for it.

2. People can't handle choices. If you give them a device with only a few buttons, then it's like a microwave and they're happy.

I disagree with your oversimplification. A platform like Windows or Linux allows anyone who develops applications to say, "You need to be this geeky to install and use this application." This is by far one of the most straightforward, and yet it is somehow one of the most hotly debated, reversals of the iOS: they do not allow you to jump through hoops in order to get extra functionality, which means that the programmers either have to begrudgingly improve their GUI skills or limit functionality altogether.

The reason is simple--the people they're marketing to will go cross-eyed if you talk to them about a topic they would need to study for months or years to understand at the same level you would, and believe it or not, computers and programming are such a topic. If your life is already computer-centric, understanding computers is no big deal. If your life is centered around construction work, business deals, hair salons, clothing design, or any of the other (completely fucking legitimate) career paths out there, saying "You have to spend months learning computers before this $500 tablet and this particular $2 application become useful to you" is going to lose you customers.

If instead you tell those same customers, "We promise we won't let the programmers do anything that's going to confuse the crap out of you, for instance, try this $2 app that you can start using right away! And there are more that are just as easy!" you now have a customer, and probably more on the way

I mean, in some ways I feel you. I've been a computer user literally longer than I can remember, and the idea of having a tablet that can also have cron jobs and shell scripts running in the background is delicious. But no, dude, don't yell at the Norms for being Normal. Give it a year or two and there will be some kind of really excellent Linux tablet that does everything a geek could ever want. You don't have to try to turn this one into that miracle product. Just let it be.

Re:iPhad; hardware is sexy?

[jo_ham]

No, but it's not as obtrusive as you might think, but it may put some people off. The different pages of apps on your home screens slide sideways when you swipe your finger, but they move as fast as your finger does; so if you do a demo you can do it slowly. If you are using the phone day to day you swipe without thinking and it happens rapidly, but enough that you can see what it is doing (better feedback than just instantly blinking to the next page).

The zoom happens when you start an app, and this is really there to cover the load time I think. On my 3G some of the bigger apps are still loading after the zoom finishes.

From using it day to day there's no extra animation beyond UI feedback - for example, icons don't swirl around like some fancy vortex when you press them just to look pretty. Every animation is specific to give you feedback on your input. That's the smoothness - the rate at which a list scrolls is entirely down to you. A couple of quick flicks and it whizzes past but stops instantly if you touch your finger down again.

Re:iPhad; hardware is sexy?

[jedidiah]

> There must be something sexy about the iPad hardware since all the tablet computers shown on the page linked to in the summary look pretty much identical to one.

There's plenty you could do to bring a tablet into the 21st century and still leave it looking pretty similar to an iPad.

1) USB port
2) SD card port
3) HDMI port

4) Decent CPU

5) Respectable GPU

6) Correct screen geometry for video

7) Some means of accomodating an external hard drive.

8) An internal hard drive.

9) non-crippled OS

10) Allow for multiple "app" vendors.

Re:iPhad; hardware is sexy?

[jedidiah]

>> 1. There is nothing sexy about a crippled CPU with no connectivity.
>
> Internet connectivity not enough for you? Are you holding out for wormhole connectivity?

No it isn't. I would like to be able to connect to my own home network. I want to print without any stupid hacks. I want to be able to save stuff and to read stuff that I have stored on other computers. I don't want to be limited to Apple-only standards and incomplete 3rd party tools. I don't want to have to deal with some lame app that looks like it's still stuck in the 90s to manage my files.

Re:iPhad; hardware is sexy?

[jedidiah]

> I disagree with your oversimplification. A platform like Windows or Linux allows anyone who
> develops applications to say, "You need to be this geeky to install and use this application."

Nope. That's total, mindless, foaming at the mouth, cult following FUD.

Windows installs have never been terribly complex.

Linux uses an installation method that strangely resembles the App Store.

The idea that installing new stuff on a general purpose machine must be hard even
when that machine is a Unix machine with the training wheels sawed off is a fallacy
from the last century.

It's time to update the FUD.

I install VLC on Macs not because it is "free software" but because it is the simpler
option when compared to dealing with the prospect of augmenting the designated built-in
OS level service. Apple has no "midas touch" by any stretch of the imagination.

The iPad doesn't even "limit choice" really. It just limits certain choices that might
be inconvenient for the platform vendor. This is more like Microsoft might have run amok
in the 90s then some sort of improved user experience.

The iPad is Microsoft's monopoly wet dream.

Maybe so

[osgeek]

The first big player that steps up with something competitive to Apple in that regard

Haven't prognosticators been saying this exact same thing for years about the iPod and the iTunes store?

The song goes something like this: "We've got hardware! It's got MIPS and ports and pixels and gigabytes! All we need now is easy to use software. See that word 'easy'? That must mean it's EASY to build."

As a geek, I'm not interested in an iPad because it's missing hardware options, but to the regular consumer the shiny, easy, hip user experience is everything.

2010 Roundup?

[Bysshe]

Considering its only June, its hard to do a comprehensive 2010 roundup.

USB Ports on Tablets

[billstewart]

You must have one of those special iPads, then - the ones Steve Jobs is selling have a Dock Connector Port, though you can hang a cable with a USB connector off of that, or plug into a dock. It's not part of the tablet itself, it's an external device, so it's annoying at best if you're trying to connect things to a tablet as opposed to a desktop-mounted thing. Also, I can't tell from the documentation how many of those things you can use simultaneously - obviously you can't use the Dock-to-VGA cable and the Dock-to-USB cable at the same time, but if you've got the Dock or Keyboard Dock, can you use both the VGA and the USB at once? It doesn't look like it.

With USB, if the device only has one port (boring), you can hang a powered hub off it to support keyboard, mouse, Ethernet adapter, etc, but AFAIK there's no equivalent fanout for Dock ports. So your iPad battery had better be charged up before you use it with an external screen, and you'd better have a Bluetooth keyboard and mouse and Wifi.

It's one thing for Apple to try to use proprietary connectors to keep you locked in to Apple's world. But it's another thing entirely to be Not User Friendly as a result, or to be Ugly and Klunky instead of Insanely Cool-Looking.

Re:USB Ports on Tablets

[jedidiah]

Why should the hardware manufacturers have to make special accomodations for
a particular system vendor when there are widely used open standards that are
readily available?

It's not like we're talking about a video card or a capture card here.

Really?

[N0Man74]

I'm probably going to get modded down by fan boys for my blasphemy, but...

Lack of USB ports, card readers, and video outputs and the like are features? Seriously!?

You do realize that the reason that there are compatibility issues that exist within the PC world is not simply because of hardware options, but because of the fact that every single piece of the system is customizable. Every piece of hardware, every piece of software, and even the OS can be picked by a user. The more variables there are, the more possibility that there can be unexpected interactions.

However, if you have a locked down platform where you control the OS and the hardware that is present, then the chances of random compatibilities goes down incredibly. That's without even taking into account having control of the software too.

My XBox 360 has more hardware features than my Wii does, and amazingly I haven't had a single compatibility problem with it. My friend has no issues with his DSi, even though it has more hardware features than his old DS. I'm going to take a stab in the dark and guess that if Apple had added additional hardware features to their iPad, then the chances are they'd work without compatibility issues.

I think that one could argue legitimate reasons for exclusion of certain hardware exclusions. I might disagree, but reasonable arguments could be made. However this one just seems silly. I might have a lot of criticisms for Apple, but they seem to do well in quality control; I have faith that they could pull off hardware features that work.

iPad has USB and video out in its iPod connector

[gig]

There is no lack of connectivity on iPad. It has a 30-pin iPod dock connector, which is multiple ports in one, for the same reason as an iPod: it's too thin for the other ports it replaces. There is USB, video out, and a number of other cables in an iPod dock connector, so there is no lack of connectivity. A device with a micro-USB port is no better off, you still need a cable with the right ends for whatever device. iPad supports USB audio, hubs, keyboards, and card readers. It supports VGA, component, and composite video out. iPad also works with many iPod accessories, such as credit card readers, which is something other tablets can't say. iPad connects directly to iTunes, which makes it easy to transfer music, movies, books, documents, podcasts onto and off of the device. And it supports Bonjour (zero configuration networking) so it appears as "iPad.local" on the network. Bluetooth keyboards, audio, and controls. It jumps on and off Wi-Fi networks very easily as you move around. There's no shortage of connectivity.

When comparing iPad competitors, it's going to be way, way, way more instructive to compare software, which is 95% of this kind of device. Look at firmware, system, native C apps, HTML5 Web apps, and cloud services. The software that runs the touchscreen is very important to whether the device is practical. Also, usability is very important in consumer electronics.

Maybe the summary means other tablets are vying for pole position in the race to compete with iPad, but if talking about the market as a whole, iPad is way out in front by any measure. They already outsold all other tablets from the past 25 years.

     

NO NO NO! BAD TABLET, BAD!

[dafing]

What is glaringly apparent on all of these tablets — and absent on the iPad — are the multitude of connectivity options built into them, like USB ports, flash card readers, and video output ports.

Christ, whats wrong with these people? Make it *NICE TO USE*, and THEN worry about slowly trickling out new features!

Are you really going to take X over Y because it has an IR transmitter? Maybe the Slashdot audience, but certainly not the majority of consumers, you know those people whos money is just as worthy as the tech elite?

Make it nice! Make it lovely, a pleasure to use! I actually imported an iPad, without even seeing one in the metal, and ended up paying EXTRA. And yet, I am wildly happy with my iPad, cannot imagine living without it. Would I want "Tablet Y" even if it were cheaper and had a Serial port? NO! Because every other tablet SUCKS!

I actually fear for the other manufacturers, who have clung to Android. I think its bad to build Google into this all important Super-Company in every market. It means we get locked down into Android...or nothing...because theres no third option.

I hope HP does well with WebOS, the big thing with getting ANY portable computer essential is that its NICE to use! Not some hacked together lump of plastic and ports.

A man with a Netbook came into my work today, he was measuring furniture and entering it onto the HP Netbook. He was pushing a pram, AND holding this open screened Netbook down each aisle, incredibly awkward looking! I couldnt help but imagine how much better using my iPad would be for the task. I could easily hold my iPad in one hand, and tap-type with the other, instead of walking about with this big (it looked huge and flimsy) Netbook with a crappy screen. For each entry, he had to place it on something, and crouch over to type a few numbers into the spreadsheet. I'm sure I can type many times faster on a physical keyboard than my iPads software keyboard, but not in that scenario! How fast are you when crouched over, pecking out keys in a public space? Holding with one hand, tap typing with the other, I would be much more efficient using my iPad in this situation. Of course, a smartphone would have been better yet.

For the love of god Hardware Companies, make NICE products, dont just worry about what never to be used port you can slap on the ugly sides!

What an appropriate Slashdot quote "The truth of a thing is the feel of it, not the think of it. -- Stanley Kubrick"

Re:NO NO NO! BAD TABLET, BAD!

[Totenglocke]

I'll take something useful over something pretty anyday. Useful AND pretty is a bonus. However, like the iPad, pretty and not useful is an epic fail.

For the average person, why get excited about plugging in SD cards? That then require your slick looking device having a permanent gash...

See, in the real world, there are people who have these things called "files". A great way to transfer these "files" from one device to another is either a USB drive or a SD card. It's infinitely better than having to take your iPad, plug it in, load iTunes, and then go through it's horrific sync system that only syncs files for programs Apple chooses to let you sync from (I have an iPod and an iPhone, I'm well aware of the horrible flaws in iTunes sync). It's much easier if you can keep extra songs / pictures / movies / books / whatever on an SD card and just pop it in and read it off the card - that way if you go on a trip, you don't have to lug a laptop with you just to get more files over to the tablet.

iPads sold, 2 million plus, a MILLION a month

Yes, but they have something that no one else has! A bright shiny apple on the back! That means that the average moron MUST have it or be a social outcast, despite the fact that there are other options (well, in the case of the iPad, there soon will be) that cost less and do more - but they don't have the shiny apple on the back, so they're inferior products.

You seem to be confusing "I must have it because the TV tells me I have to have it in order to get attention and popularity" with "I really like device X and it does everything I want".

That's why I'm trading in my iPhone 3GS for an Evo - not only will I save $23 / month with Sprint vs. AT&T, but I'll have better hardware, better software, and the ability to customize my phone however I want. I'll laugh at all the trendy idiots buying the iPhone 4 that isn't even as good as an Evo, despite coming out a month later. I'll especially laugh in 3 months when the next Awesome Android Phone comes out and really embarrasses the Apple fanboys.

Re:NO NO NO! BAD TABLET, BAD!

[Totenglocke]

Oh, so you have a bandolier of SD cards strapped around you, and you change "mags" a dozen times a day with your phone/tablet device? Why not just get the storage space you require, INTERNALLY?

Well, your beloved Apple limits the iPad to 64 GB (for way too much money) or a measly 16 GB which stores....well, not much. SD cards would fix that just fine - cell phones have been doing it for years.

If you want a file, why not email or otherwise FTP it to where you want? Rather than carrying things about on little bits of plastic? Or...do it all..."on the cloud"!

Once again, with your "email it" "solution", you're back to needing a second computer just to get a damn file. That's absurd and one of the major failings of the iPad. Secondly, if you want Google / MS / Apple / Other Big Company to have ALL of your personal files (pictures, home videos, word documents, everything) that not only they have access too but a mistake could mean you lose all of your files FOREVER, then to be blunt, you're a damn fool. A little extra convenience is NOT worth losing your privacy or potentially losing all of your files for.

Give me an example of an iPad competitor, thats in the market right now (pretty much worldwide too), that I could have bought instead of my iPad.

Well, you know, there's this thing called "impulse control" - you could start by learning some of that. Then you could wait a few weeks as the Android tablets flood the market. I know - researching before you buy something, it's a crazy idea!

We also have no Apple Stores, those damn attractive, ultra profitable stores, damn them! *shakes fist*

Please, go in one sometime when you're in the US. You'll never want to do business with Apple again. Everything about their stores (from the way the employees talk to customers to the giant displays they have with "tips") tells you blatantly that they think you are a complete moron. It's rather insulting, not to mention that Apple intentionally has about one store per 5 million potential customers, which ensures that you'll always have long waits.

I would personally assume the iPhone 4 is far better than the EVO, but I have actually used neither.

Making decisions about two products you've never used based purely off Lord Jobs' advertising. I can see now why you bought an iPad. I have an iPhone 3GS and I've used phones running Android 2.1. Android not only allows you to run whatever apps you want, to customize whatever apps you want, but it also adds new features at a pace that Apple can't even dream of.

Whats the EVO got? Faster network...actual tethering (although the iPhone can be tethered in basically every OTHER country apart from yours....)....what else?

More memory, expandable storage, higher res cameras (yes, BOTH cameras are higher rest), mini-HDMI port, FM tuner, a kickstand to watching movies / Sprint TV, Flash support, a much bigger screen, and other things I can't think of off the top of my head.

The iPhone 4 will be about the same price (I buy unlocked and run on prepaid plans normally), is slimmer, I think it will have better build quality (my opinion) and definitely a better rear camera, from what we've seen.

Being .1 inches slimmer is an unnoticeable difference. You're basing the "better camera" on what exactly? As for build quality, the Evo has gotten great reviews for build quality, as has just about every HTC phone.

Listen, I know its all cool to hate "the establishment" and all, but judge tech on its own merits, not how your peers feel.

I do buy based off the merits of the technology - that's what my whole disagreement with you has been about. You've been saying people should buy a device because "OMFG it looks cool!" instead of it actually DOING something useful.