Slashdot Mirror

← Back to Stories (view on slashdot.org)

X Prize Foundation Wants AI Physician On Every Smartphone

Posted by Soulskill on from the universal-health-care dept.

kkleiner writes "One of the exciting ideas being tossed around recently at the X Prize Foundation is the creation of an Artificial Intelligence physician that you could access from your smartphone. Want to know if that rash on your leg is poison ivy or smallpox? Take a photo of it with your phone and ask the AI. The possibilities are enormous, especially for the billion plus people around the world who live more than a few hours' walk or drive from the nearest doctor." This is one of four X Prizes in planning for the future. The other three are for an AI automobile driver, organ generation through stem cell use, and a deep sea submersible capable of exploring the sea floor.

43 of 245 comments (clear)

  1. No smallpox. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    Want to know if that rash on your leg is poison ivy or smallpox?

    Not smallpox. C4n I plz haz the prize?

  2. Internet hypochondria is already a phenomenon by Burz · · Score: 4, Insightful

    http://www.webmd.com/balance/features/internet-makes-hypochondria-worse

    Would the smartphone version be any better?

    1. Re:Internet hypochondria is already a phenomenon by hedwards · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Depends how it's done. If they manage to make it more of a tricorder eventually including some testing equipment or the photos are sent to somebody with knowledge hen probably not. It's not likely to replace an exam any time soon, but it would be helpful for contacting the consulting nurse as to whether or not to come in for an appointment.

      But yes, if it just looks things up without any kind of smarts, then it's most likely just going to make things worse.

    2. Re:Internet hypochondria is already a phenomenon by Pojut · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Does anyone else find it hilarious that one of the primary contributors to Internet Hypochondria has an article about how bad Internet Hypochondria has gotten?

      --
      Living With a Nerd
    3. Re:Internet hypochondria is already a phenomenon by Monkeedude1212 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Well - wouldn't the smart phone version be able to differentiate the diseases from common blunders?

      I could see a hypochondriac using this feature to learn that "That Bump" is just a pimple.

      Which, I know - doesn't usually help hypochondriacs, even a real doctor generally doesn't sway their mind. So I don't see why a smartphone app when the internet is already widely available making it any worse. (If you can find more people who own a smart phone who don't have access to the internet at least once a week than I have fingers, I'll retract my statement)

    4. Re:Internet hypochondria is already a phenomenon by IICV · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Exactly - the problem isn't creating an AI physician, the problem is creating an AI physician that you can't lie to blatantly. It would be trivial to create a little program that's little more than an enhanced version of those 20 question balls and runs a differential diagnosis engine; something like that would cover 90% of all diseases after a few rounds. It could show you little pictures like "do your bumps look more like this or more like this?", or any number enhancements. It would probably work incredibly well with honest, impartial patients.

      The problem is, it has no way of knowing if you're lying. If you say "yes, when I press hard on this point on my belly it hurts when I let go", the thing has no way of knowing if you pressed on the right place or if it actually hurt. If there's a doctor doing that to you, they'll have a pretty good idea if it hurt.

      Really, the best this thing can do is either say "you should see a doctor" or "you should take two acetaminophen and ask me again tomorrow"

    5. Re:Internet hypochondria is already a phenomenon by Icarus1919 · · Score: 2, Funny

      Actually, this would be perfect for all that hypochondriac that lives more than a few hours walk from a doctor in a third world country, but has a smartphone.

    6. Re:Internet hypochondria is already a phenomenon by kg8484 · · Score: 5, Funny

      No, but now I'm worried I might have Hypochondria.

    7. Re:Internet hypochondria is already a phenomenon by elrous0 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Don't worry, the AMA would never allow it (not in the U.S. anyway). Their main function is to protect the livelihood of their members (aka physicians). Anything that threatens their monopoly is immediately labeled a health hazard and banned in the U.S.

      --
      SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    8. Re:Internet hypochondria is already a phenomenon by imakemusic · · Score: 2, Funny

      Now that you mention it, I think I've got a headache, too...

      --
      Brain surgery - it's not rocket science!
    9. Re:Internet hypochondria is already a phenomenon by Pence128 · · Score: 2, Funny

      It's brain cancer.

      --
      404: sig not found.
    10. Re:Internet hypochondria is already a phenomenon by Kilrah_il · · Score: 5, Interesting

      It's even more problematic than you think. As a doctor, many times I have patients coming to me with "agonizing abdominal pain" - they are sure it's appendicitis. If you check their stomach or ask them "does it hurt here?" they jump and cry and wail, etc. etc. But if I start talking to them on other subjects (What do you do in your life? Are you married? Children?) and get them diverted, I find out many times that they "forget" about their pain and the stomach is as soft and non-tender as can be.
      This is one of the reasons that no app can replace a physical exam by a doctor. You need the doctor-patient relationship to strip away the anxiety and find out the true magnitude of the symptoms. So, yes, an app like the one in TFA could be nice as a handy reference, but nothing beats the good-old face-to-face meeting.

      --
      Whenever in an argument, remember this.
    11. Re:Internet hypochondria is already a phenomenon by bitflip · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I was having some pain in my chest a couple of years back, and did some research on the internet, but none of the symptoms fit. So, I went to my doctor, and told him I'd done some research, but it didn't seem like a heart problem. When he looked surprised, I asked him if I was the only person who'd said they'd looked stuff up on the internet, and decided nothing was wrong. He said, pretty much, yea.

      (turned out to be a minor stomach problem, all fixed now - thanks doc!)

    12. Re:Internet hypochondria is already a phenomenon by jeffporcaro · · Score: 5, Informative

      OMG, I *wish* this were true of the AMA. As a physician and still active member, I can tell you that this couldn't be further from the truth. The AMA's primary business is publishing and maintaining insurance coding and billing standards, and selling their databases to the highest bidder. They employ lobbyists primarily to maintain that monopoly - they are NOT particularly interested in maintaining insurance or government payments to physicians (aka "livelihood"), although they make noises on that topic occasionally. They've basically been relegated to the sidelines on most national issues involving medicine. They represent less than 30% of active US physicians. I hear this same trope frequently, however, despite the fact that it's demonstrably false.

      --
      It is not the doing of things that is difficult. What is difficult is getting in the right mood to do them. ~~ Brancusi
  3. Hmmm by Spad · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Because having medical advice available on the internet hasn't led to people flooding GP surgeries because they're convinced their cough is actually Ebola.

    1. Re:Hmmm by hedwards · · Score: 2, Interesting

      That's why some health insurance companies provide a complimentary consulting nurse. Basically somebody that's available around the clock to answer those, should I call 911, go to the emergency room, make an appointment or just ignore it suggestions. Obviously they tend to be a bit action biased as doing a screening over the phone isn't easy, but it does help people make better decisions about what is urgent and what can wait.

    2. Re:Hmmm by commodore64_love · · Score: 2, Informative

      I hope they are better than the stories I've come out of NICE (aka nasty). Over in the State of France they have a screening service, where doctors answer emergency calls directly and can provide medical care immediately, or else send an ambulance if the sick person needs hospital treatment. It has saved the State Government a lot of money by eliminating un-necessary ambulance/hospital visits.

      This seems a good idea for the US Member States to copy, hiring actual doctors to handle 911 calls, rather than some minimum wage person. If I was a politician I would shove it through the Legislature, but of course I'm a nobody say I have no say whatsoever. Oh well.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    3. Re:Hmmm by vlm · · Score: 2, Insightful

      consulting nurse

      Somehow, despite it "requiring" AI, for liability reasons, other than the most trivial of follow up issues, it'll probably end up 99% of the time as a semi-realtime nifty videoconference frontend for existing consulting nurses.

      I would also anticipate some "self nursing". Rather than paying someone to glance at a sutured wound, have the patient photograph it with their cellphone and have a centralized nurse (and/or dr) review a stack of pictures at once. Rather than paying a nurse to stick a thermometer in the patients mouth (or, where ever) and wait for a result and record it, the phone might bug the patient to test himself and log his own result.

      This idea of a personal universal electronic medical record is kind of interesting, compared to the corporate electronic medical records we are "sort of" seeing deployed.

      --
      "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
    4. Re:Hmmm by Scrameustache · · Score: 2

      Because having medical advice available on the internet hasn't led to people flooding GP surgeries because they're convinced their cough is actually Ebola.

      Right, the internet created hypochondriacs, just like videogames created murderers and the Austrian waltz created coveting of ankles.

      --

      You can't take the sky from me...

  4. My epitaph... by elrous0 · · Score: 5, Funny

    Here Lies Jim
    His cellphone said it wasn't cancer.

    --
    SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
  5. Bad idea by Kazymyr · · Score: 2, Informative

    A smartphone cannot perform a physical exam. Enough said.

    --
    I hadn't known there were so many idiots in the world until I started using the Internet -Stanislaw Lem
    1. Re:Bad idea by sznupi · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Not available medical personel can't perform a physical exam, either (but a phone can connect one with existing personel, if that's required)

      --
      One that hath name thou can not otter
  6. The possibilities are enormous... by Angst+Badger · · Score: 2, Insightful

    ...for an epidemic of medical student's disease.

    --
    Proud member of the Weirdo-American community.
  7. Tell me more by bsDaemon · · Score: 5, Funny

    Tell me more about X Prize foundation Wants AI Physician On Every Smartphone. /emacs

  8. Nice idea, but... by miaDWZ · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The thing is going to get killed a week after public release after the AI 'misdiagnosis' someone and they decide to sue.

    1. Re:Nice idea, but... by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The difference is, "AI" systems are neither advanced enough, nor sufficiently embedded in the public mind to be seen as distinct from their creators.

      If my doctor fucks up, I sue the doctor(and possibly the hospital, if they really should have known about his habit of bringing a hip-flask into the surgical suite). I don't sue the medical school that "produced" the doctor.

      If an AI expert system fucks up, I don't sue the AI, I sue the company that built the AI. Thus, unless the company wishes to carry some sort of novel "aggregate malpractice insurance" covering all the products it sells, selling that product would be wildly uneconomic.

      The same basic conditions apply with the various proposals to automate cars. Humans are shit drivers. It is easy to believe that machines will be able to do better within the decade, and do better cheaply not too long thereafter. However, courts have an easy time with the idea that humans suck, and are morally responsible. Therefore, unless a definite defect in the vehicle is detected, the driver is usually blamed. Even if AI drivers cut vehicular crashes by 80%, saving thousands of lives a year, the companies building them would be sued into oblivion.

  9. Slacking by Coffee+Warlord · · Score: 2, Funny

    Six posts in and no comments about your phone saying "please state the nature of your medical emergency".

    Incredible.

  10. Obligatory... by smooth+wombat · · Score: 2, Funny

    "Please state the nature of the medical emergency."

    --
    We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
  11. Yeah... by SolitaryMan · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Especially for the billion plus people around the world who live more than a few hours walk or drive from the nearest doctor.

    Yeah, to all four of them, who actually have a smartphone

    --
    May Peace Prevail On Earth
    1. Re:Yeah... by mathimus1863 · · Score: 2, Informative

      When I visited Thailand, I was amazed to see that so much of the country is poor and without healthcare, yet they ALL have cellphones. In fact, Thailand has the 5th highest cellphone ownership rate in the world (1.25 cellphones per person, on average). It's crazy to go to a hill tribe village 2 hours from anywhere else, see that they probably don't even have running water, yet they're all listening to music or chatting on their cellphone. I don't even know how they charge them! I didn't think they had running electricity...

  12. The diagnosis is... by AdmiralXyz · · Score: 4, Funny

    "You have severe inflammation of the cerebral cortex, human. The only cure is to wire your brain into the AI Overmind. Proceed at once to the nearest Community Conversion Center."

    --
    Dislike the Electoral College? Lobby your state to join the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact.
  13. How many people... by tompaulco · · Score: 3, Insightful

    How many people in the world that live several hours walk from a doctor or hospital have smartphones? How well does that smartphone work with no coverage? I don't think they tend to put in cell towers in areas where the nearest human population complex is 30 miles away.

    --
    If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
  14. As a non AI physician by Dunbal · · Score: 3, Interesting

    This is a terrible idea. However I guarantee that the AI algorithm will have a "success" rate of around 85%, since that is the rate at which illnesses spontaneously cure themselves. This rate is why homeopathy, snake oil salesmen, faith healers and all other forms of shamans and charlatans manage to convince people of their effectiveness. Too bad that 15% of the patients will suffer permanent disability or die using these methods. That's the part of the statistic we doctors manage to concentrate on and improve, the 15% that really need help...

    --
    Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
    1. Re:As a non AI physician by oddTodd123 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Doctors are notoriously stubborn and arrogant about their abilities, and they refuse to believe that a significant share of medical practice can be routinized to be performed by much lower skilled and educated people. From simple hand washing to using checklists, doctors have steadfastly resisted any change that implies they could be doing their job better, or that someone with less training could do the same job.

      Nobody is suggesting the smartphone perform open heart surgery, but if it can use image recognition on a rash to tell you to try calamine lotion before going to see a dermatologist, that can save everyone a lot of time and money. Or, to use a personal example, after I fell on my shoulder, it could guide me through a series of tests (of the type "does it hurt when you do X?") and suggest I may have an AC joint separation and I should see an orthopedist. In the last example, I was originally diagnosed over the phone (by a non-orthopedist doctor) after exactly that experience. The default choice in a case such as mine would be to go to the ER. That would have turned out to be an inefficient and expensive choice and wasted a lot of people's time.

  15. Uh oh by WetCat · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Why do you need AI physician if you already have a phone? Just send a real physician (non-American, of course, because US physicians are really overpriced ones thanks to various professional insurances and malpractice lawsuits) a MMS with your views and symptoms. That will be better analyzed, anyhow.

  16. Re:LOL no Tricorder tag? by RangerRick98 · · Score: 4, Funny

    My first thought was "Please state the nature of the medical emergency."

    --
    "You're older than you've ever been, and now you're even older."
  17. Re:"AI" by John+Hasler · · Score: 2, Interesting

    > Image recognition is certainly considered a part of "AI" research...

    According to the anti-AI crowd AI is whatever it is that computers can't do yet. There was a time when all agreed that a machine playing a credible game of chess would constitute proof that AI had arrived but now defeating grand masters is "mere computation".

    --
    Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
  18. Re:The AMA is gonna be pissed by pseudorand · · Score: 2, Funny

    > inanimate objects.

    Except for the iPhone, which doesn't run Flash, most smart phones can do animation these days.

  19. Re:Pissing your money away by colinrichardday · · Score: 2, Funny

    I think you could spend much less money just getting more meat doctors into the bush.

    But how gynecologists do you need?

  20. Facebook status update by hamburgler007 · · Score: 4, Funny

    has herpes.

  21. Can I borrow your phone? by Comboman · · Score: 3, Funny

    Can I borrow your phone? I need to do a colonoscopy.

    --
    Support Right To Repair Legislation.
  22. Re:Great idea by timeOday · · Score: 2, Insightful

    "A bit beyond us" is exactly what the XPrize is for.

  23. Really, AI on a smartphone is the best solution? by haggais · · Score: 2, Interesting

    If I already have my smartphone with me, or indeed any phone with camera, and I can take pictures of my skin condition (or whatever), and write or talk about it, perhaps I could SEND the photos and comments to a REAL LIVE doctor, even one who works more than a few hours drive away, but within phone coverage, and get his NATURAL INTELLIGENCE comments, instructions, etc. over the phone? Is AI going to be better and cheaper than human doctors any time soon? And assuming it does get that way, why does it need to run on my smartphone? Through the magic that is the interweb (of which I believe smartphones are a part), would it not be easier to send the data to a slightly more powerful SERVER, and get my AI GP's advice from there? Slapping "AI" and "smartphone" on a problem does not make for a brilliant futuristic solution.