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San Francisco Requires Cell Phone Radiation Warnings

Lord Ender writes "Poor phone reception may soon be a selling point in San Francisco. A city ordinance was just approved which requires those selling phones to indicate the 'specific absorption rate' (SAR) caused by the radio transmitters in the phones. Cell phone industry groups opposed the law. The FCC already requires phones sold in the US to have SAR levels below 1.6 W/kg, though adverse health effects from such levels of radio exposure have never been conclusively demonstrated."

49 of 258 comments (clear)

  1. Medical Radiation the New Demon by eldavojohn · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Recently it was reported widely that “airport scanners, power lines, cell phones and microwaves” ain't got nothin' on medical scanning radiation. Now people are asking for tracking systems and calling them a threat.

    I'm not really worried about cell phones as much as when I roll into my new dentist's, get 18+ x-rays of my entire mouth for their record. Find out I need two inlays on the lower left. Come back in two weeks and get two more xrays so they know where to drill. Come back in two weeks to get the inlays put in only to have them re x-ray the inlays after they were in to make sure they were in properly since they couldn't floss between them. What. the. hell? Can't you use regular light and your eyeballs to set those in there? I mean, I'm glad you did a good job, I just don't know what to do about this malignant jaw tumor now ...

    --
    My work here is dung.
    1. Re:Medical Radiation the New Demon by JWSmythe · · Score: 2, Informative

          I really hated that story. The news story that is. Your doctor story is sadly accurate.

          In the news story, they mix non-ionizing radiation (like RF) and ionizing radiation (like X-ray), and don't clearly differentiate them. Both can be bad. Ionizing radiation can be worse. They miss the fact that even if every source of man made radiation were to be neutralized, both still exist at background levels. Well, unless you are exposed to daylight, then you're getting a bit of both. :)

       

      --
      Serious? Seriousness is well above my pay grade.
    2. Re: Medical Radiation the New Demon by MozeeToby · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I wonder how the medical imaging radiation an average person receives compares to the daily, hourly, sometime nigh-continuous exposure to the lower levels of radiation from a cell phone.

      It doesn't. Trying to compare the two would be like trying to compare getting hit with a ping pong ball once a minute all day every day to getting shot with a 9mm pistol once a year. Look up the difference between ionizing and non-ionizing radiation if this isn't making sense to you.

    3. Re:Medical Radiation the New Demon by theNAM666 · · Score: 5, Funny

      What are you complaining about? I went the dentist and then the urologist a few years ago, and then attempted to drive over the Williamsburg bridge. Six ATF guys pulled me over because their radiation detector went off... I don't want to remember the rest of it.

    4. Re:Medical Radiation the New Demon by geekoid · · Score: 2, Funny

      A man can handle 100 X-Rays a year, and should have to.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    5. Re:Medical Radiation the New Demon by fiannaFailMan · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It'd be cool if they could do something about the resolution of ultrasound. Any ultrasound experts out there...?

      --
      Drill baby drill - on Mars
    6. Re:Medical Radiation the New Demon by sleeping143 · · Score: 3, Informative

      Not an expert, but I do know that ultrasound is only good at solid, soft tissue. Bones and gas-filled areas cause weird echoes and distortion that lower the image's resolution.

    7. Re:Medical Radiation the New Demon by Dan+Ost · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Beyond burns, what risks are associated with non-ionizing radiation?

      --

      *sigh* back to work...
    8. Re:Medical Radiation the New Demon by Sir_Lewk · · Score: 2, Insightful

      They're scary. Seems as though some people have an RF phobia. Probably stems from them never taking a physics class in their life, I blame the public school system.

      --
      "linux is just DOS with a UNIX like syntax" -- Galactic Dominator (944134)
    9. Re:Medical Radiation the New Demon by need4mospd · · Score: 3, Funny

      I may not always get x-rays, but when I do, I get 100 of them.

    10. Re:Medical Radiation the New Demon by Sir_Lewk · · Score: 2, Informative

      Beyond burns, what risks are associated with non-ionizing radiation?

      Ultraviolet light is ionizing radiation, and those others are burns.

      Care to revise your statement?

      --
      "linux is just DOS with a UNIX like syntax" -- Galactic Dominator (944134)
    11. Re:Medical Radiation the New Demon by Sir_Lewk · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I love how slashdot is so anti-intellectual these days that mentioning facts is considered to be trolling.

      --
      "linux is just DOS with a UNIX like syntax" -- Galactic Dominator (944134)
  2. poor reception by Trisha-Beth · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Poor reception means that the phone has to transmit at higher power to reach the cell base station.

    1. Re:poor reception by JWSmythe · · Score: 4, Interesting

          I went to Europe once (years ago), with my Nextel phone. I left it on quite a bit, so I could retrieve phone numbers, and call them from my local cell phone. The Nextel phone usually lasted for days if it was just turned on but I wasn't making calls. I had to charge it every night while I was there, because it was constantly seeking towers that didn't exist. After I got home, everything was back to normal. It could find towers, so it worked at lower power.

      --
      Serious? Seriousness is well above my pay grade.
    2. Re:poor reception by MozeeToby · · Score: 3, Informative

      Similar problem when I go to visit the folks up in rural Wisconsin, the solution I've found is to put the phone into airplane mode (both of my most recent phones have had it so I assume it's becoming standard). That allows you to use the phone as a PDA (pull contact information, view/edit saved data, play games, etc) without it running down your battery in a matter of hours.

  3. important psa by girlintraining · · Score: 5, Funny

    WARNING: The Sun is radioactive! Avoid using it to make phone calls. -- San Francisco.

    --
    #fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
    1. Re: important psa by Black+Parrot · · Score: 4, Funny

      WARNING: The Sun is radioactive! Avoid using it to make phone calls.

      Or at least avoid holding it against your ear for prolonged periods.

      --
      Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
    2. Re:important psa by Caledfwlch · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I don't think they have Sun in San Francisco (Fog City)

      --
      These views express my own personal opinions, not those of the other voices in my head
    3. Re: important psa by geekoid · · Score: 2, Funny

      Holding the sun to your ear will not cause cancer. I guarantee it.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    4. Re:important psa by GofG · · Score: 3, Funny

      Dihydrogen monoxide? I've heard of that. Isn't it the main ingredient in most harmful pesticide sprays?

      My understanding is that it has gotten into most of our lakes and rivers, and even in our drinking water.

      --
      GFA/M/S d-- s: a--- C++++ UBL++$ P+ L+++ !E- W++ N+ !o K- w--- !O !M !V PS++ PE Y+ PGP+ t+++ 5- X+ R tv@ b++ DI++++ D+ G
  4. Hey Gavin by Low+Ranked+Craig · · Score: 4, Informative
    --
    I still cannot find the droids I am looking for...
    1. Re:Hey Gavin by Low+Ranked+Craig · · Score: 4, Interesting

      You think he doesn't know?

      Honestly? Yes. I think he isn't capable of understanding even the simple definitions and explanations in the attached. I've talked to council members on various city councils over the years - there are some astoundingly stupid people in local government that lack knowledge of basic economics, let alone basic science.

      --
      I still cannot find the droids I am looking for...
  5. OMG! by another+joe · · Score: 5, Funny

    What about second hand radiation? Maybe they should only call in their own homes!

  6. Other things that Emit Radiation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    -Fire
    -Stove
    -Television
    -The sky

  7. I think you might need a new dentist by mbessey · · Score: 2, Informative

    Seriously - I didn't get anywhere near that many x-rays when I had my root canal/crown operation a couple of years ago.

  8. Phone companies would stand to lose a lot by rubenerd · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I acknowledge we don't know the long term effects of any mobile phone usage because we haven't been using them long enough, but at the same time I feel uneasy. Phone companies would stand to lose so much money and have their industries labeled alongside big tobacco, so I can't help but think they're pouring as much research into studies that "prove" phone radiation is harmless. Even if they couldn't convince people, at least they'd make the water murkier.

    I dunno, my opinions on the ethics of big business have hit another all time low, for some reason.

    --
    Cheers, ~ Ruben
    1. Re:Phone companies would stand to lose a lot by MozeeToby · · Score: 3, Informative

      There are populations that have been using cell phones for almost 30 years, and before them there were groups that used hand held radios of similar power levels for another few decades. Granted, the levels of use are probably going up, but in many cases the power output is also going down so you're talking about minimum 30 and up to 60 years of use, it shouldn't be too hard to get a group of long term radio and cell phone users together and have them take a health survey. In fact, you probably wouldn't even have to, all you'd really have to do is look at the rate of brain cancers compaired to the rate of cell phone adoption and if there's a strong correlation you can investigate further (here's a hint, there isn't one).

    2. Re:Phone companies would stand to lose a lot by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 2, Funny

      shouldn't be too hard to get a group of long term radio and cell phone users together

      Be careful about stopping by the local HAM club and doing a health survey. Long-term radio use seems to cause geekery, pudginess, beer cravings, and a tendency to use linux.

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
  9. Re:Threatened? by gninnor · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If everything is labeled "warning" including things that have shaky evidence to support it, eventually warnings become less useful and ignored.

    That being said, I really do not see what "information" is being provided.

  10. Californians piss me off by JumpDrive · · Score: 3, Funny

    Just like a bunch of Californian wussies to get all worried about a little bit of cell phone radiation, when we have FREAKING UFO's flying around everywhere.
    Did anybody tell them that when the wind blows East to West that dust from the Trinity site settles in the fog?

  11. Re:iPhone by Quiet_Desperation · · Score: 4, Funny

    Put sharp 1 inch spikes on the phone. They will have the added benefit of preventing pigeons from landing on your phone.

  12. This is an implant ..... by wsanders · · Score: 3, Insightful

    ... not just a crown. They drill a screw down into your jaw or skull bone, then mount a tooth on it.

    I would *definitely* not want to have problems with that, they could take as many X-rays as they want. At 0.005 millisieverts (see parent's link) that's still 1/20th the amount of a chest Xray.

    Now off to brush my teeth compulsively for the next hour.

    --
    Give a man a fish and you have fed him for today. Teach a man to fish, and he'll say "WHERE'S MY FISH, YOU IDIOT?"
    1. Re:This is an implant ..... by Eponymous+Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Have you had an implant? My dentist is telling me to get one (have a missing tooth) and the estimate is between $4000 and $5000. That seems a bit outrageous to me. Just wondering if you (or anybody else) has data to compare.

      I told my dentist I'll get an implant in Mexico and he just laughed at me.

  13. Re:Threatened? by dwillden · · Score: 4, Insightful

    And semi-coincidently California now has so many warnings on so much stuff that the warnings do get ignored.

    CA should just save time and require everyone and everything (and I mean EVERYTHING) within the magical borders of CA to be labeled as being possibly cancerous.

    --
    I'm too lazy to compose a creative sig.
  14. Stupidity in action by DaveV1.0 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    So, San Francisco passed a law that required a sticker on a common product showing a rating of something most people do not understand or even know about, that has not been shown to have any health consequences, and offers no guidance or explanation. And, it is all to placate some paranoid idiots and will result in ignorant hypochondriacs going bonkers.

    This isn't FUD. It is blatant fear mongering and deliberate risk miscommunication.

    --
    There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
  15. If there is anything i've learned this year... by Rooked_One · · Score: 2, Insightful

    its better safe than sorry. Take the oil rig disaster. Had *PROPER* precautions been taken, it wouldn't have happened. Same with that brain cancer you are hoping not to get. It might hit your testicles as well - think about where that iPhone that never stops transmitting data is right now.

    Count me in with the "nut jobs" who would rather think in FUTURE tense and could be wrong than thinking only in present tense and thinking the outcome is always going to be "on my side."

    Ignorance may be bliss, but its no way to live your life. Hey, I just came up with that - I would say that's a pretty good notable quotable, eh?

    1. Re:If there is anything i've learned this year... by John+Hasler · · Score: 4, Insightful

      > its better safe than sorry.

      Right. What if living in houses causes cancer? It's never been proven that it doesn't. Better live outside.

      > Count me in with the "nut jobs"...

      Ok.

      --
      Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
    2. Re:If there is anything i've learned this year... by DaveV1.0 · · Score: 2, Informative

      What if living in houses causes cancer?

      In some parts of the country it does. Have you forgotten about radon gas?

      --
      There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
    3. Re:If there is anything i've learned this year... by ImABanker · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Studies have shown that nearly all of people who contracted cancer had lived in a house within the past 5 years. I'm surprised there isnt more of an uproar.

  16. Shouldn't they have warnings against by NotSoHeavyD3 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Light bulbs and sun light? I mean the photos in both of those have large numbers of photons in the visible range. Those are quite a bit more energetic than microwaves so logically you'd think they'd be more dangerous. (Oh I'm sorry, logic doesn't come into it.)

    --
    Did you know 80 to 90% of the moderators on slashdot wouldn't recognize a troll even if one dragged them under a bridge.
    1. Re:Shouldn't they have warnings against by bzipitidoo · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Apparently, logic doesn't come into discussions about cell phone radiation either. They do have warnings against sunlight, which has its dangers, as I'm sure you know. Even light bulbs are suspect. It's thought that light bulbs enable too much nighttime activity, which combined with the light itself throws off our circadian rhythms.

      We ought to find out just what cell phones do to us. It may not be all bad news either. One study showed it actually helps rats with Alzheimer's. Still bad in a way, because such a study shows that the radiation does have effects, contrary to what the telecom industry wants to believe. Another study suggested it could be the cause of Colony Collapse Disorder. Maybe. The only thing that is obvious is that the industry has a motive to suppress research about possible harmful effects. And would they do that? You bet! And they've been far too successful in confusing the issue, or we'd likely know much more.

      There's a long track record of business foolishly squelching such science. Used to be that no one knew of the dangers of tobacco and radiation. We should have known sooner than we did. As late as the 1990's, when everyone knew better, tobacco companies were still trying to deny that their products were harmful. In the early 1900s, the Radium Girls were assured that their work environment was safe, even when the management knew it wasn't-- and protected themselves but not their workers. All the Radium Girls died of cancer. Watches with dials that glow in the dark because they are radioactive, are not made any more. The entertainment industry is still demonizing sharing as "piracy", and still doing all they can to prop up a broken and dead business model. Builders build too close to creeks with designs that are not adequate, then leave the owners and the cities to deal with the foundation problems this causes down the road. I still see creeks being straightened and turned into drainage ditches, to "reclaim" land, despite abundant research showing it's a bad idea, as it causes greater erosion, and magnifies flash floods. Exxon and peers tried to deny climate change, and have had entirely too much success. They studied the tobacco companies not for a lesson in business ethics, but to use and improve upon their methods of obscuring the issues! They love blaming government for "not doing their jobs", after they themselves did all they could to undermine the government's ability to police them. Need I do more than mention the financial industry? There are many honest businesses out there, but as a whole, the business world has little sense of responsibility to anything other than the immediate bottom line, and it's a real shame.

      --
      Intellectual Property is a monopolistic, selfish, and defective concept. It is "tyranny over the mind of man"
  17. Fun with the Dentist by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    As soon as you hear the xray machine go on, yell "Owww!"

    They love jokes like that!

  18. Move along,nothing to see here. by bickerdyke · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Over here, the SAR has to be noted with the technical details for at least 10 years now. Not a cellphone less was sold.

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    bickerdyke
  19. Re:Dear Sir by wagnerrp · · Score: 3, Interesting

    It will kill you by heating and denaturing the proteins in your brain, but it will not give you cancer. Only ionizing radiation has sufficient power to damage DNA.

  20. Clueless in San Francisco (and elsewhere) by joeyblades · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I always marvel at those people who are concerned about cell phones and cancer...

    These are the same people who insit on driving and carrying on a conference call at the same time. I got news for you. There is a high probability that your cell phone will be a direct cause of your death... but it has nothing to do with radiation.

    And you pedestrians, don't act so smug. A few weeks ago I saw a walkin' talkin' fool step out in front of a bus without looking (lucky for him, a conscious observer yanked him back from the clutches of death).

    Believe me, radiation is the least of your worries...

  21. Mexican Dentists by wsanders · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Actually, you should check out Mexican dentists (and doctors.) Sailboat liveaboards and other adventurers who spend extended periods of time down there swear by them. A good many are reported to have US training, speak English, and your cash expense could be less than your insurance deductible.

    --
    Give a man a fish and you have fed him for today. Teach a man to fish, and he'll say "WHERE'S MY FISH, YOU IDIOT?"
  22. Banana Equivalent Dose of Cell Phone Radiation? by daten · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I'm curious what the measure of cell phone radiation exposure is in bananas?

    From wikipedia:

    """
    Many foods are naturally radioactive, and bananas are particularly so, due to the radioactive potassium-40 they contain. The banana equivalent dose is the radiation exposure received by eating a single banana. Radiation leaks from nuclear plants are often measured in extraordinarily small units (the picocurie, a millionth of a millionth of a curie, is typical). By comparing the exposure from these events to a banana equivalent dose, a more realistic assessment of the actual risk can sometimes be obtained.

    The average radiologic profile of bananas is 3520 picocuries per kg, or roughly 520 picocuries per 150g banana. The equivalent dose for 365 bananas (one per day for a year) is 3.6 millirems.
    """

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banana_equivalent_dose

    1. Re:Banana Equivalent Dose of Cell Phone Radiation? by pslam · · Score: 2, Informative

      The banana equivalent dose is 0. Cell phone radiation is non-ionizing.

  23. Re:Science Deniers by JumpDrive · · Score: 2, Funny

    What are you talking about? This is the home of quantum metaphysics. Without them we wouldn't have known about the healing power of pyramids and rocks.