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Employee Monitoring

CWmike writes "Michael Workman, an associate professor at the Florida Institute of Technology's Nathan M. Bisk College of Business, estimates that monitoring responsibilities take up at least 20% of the average IT manager's time. Yet most IT professionals never expected they'd be asked to police their colleagues and co-workers in quite this way. How do they feel about this growing responsibility? Workman says he sees a split among tech workers. Those who specialize in security issues feel that it's a valid part of IT's job. But those who have more of a generalist's role, such as network administrators, often don't like it. Computerworld contributor Tam Harbert found a wide variety of viewpoints from IT managers, ranging from discomfort at having to 'babysit' employees to righteous beliefs about 'protecting the integrity of the system.'"

274 comments

  1. Waste of time... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Monitoring other employees computer usage - one of the many non value adding tasks that have found their way into large corporations. It ranks up their with human resource departments!

    1. Re:Waste of time... by Chrisq · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Monitoring other employees computer usage - one of the many non value adding tasks that have found their way into large corporations. It ranks up their with human resource departments!

      Not quite. It doesn't have such a negative impact on other people's productivity

    2. Re:Waste of time... by AHuxley · · Score: 1

      The IT manager opens http://www.ex-parrot.com/~chris/driftnet/ watching images from TCP streams flow :)

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    3. Re:Waste of time... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Depends on the management's response while something happens. A few years back I was asked to keep an eye on employee's internet habits at the workplace though the management made if difficult for me to do but expected it to be done. Damn if you Damn if you don't. Anyway I spotted someone visiting porn sites during office hours, management said ignore it and replied then what is the point of me monitoring if no action is taken. Over the a few weeks the person went from general porn to kiddiw stuff, my management tried to sweep it under the carpet and pretend however here in the UK if you are IT staff and you are exposed you have to report it to avoid punishment yourself so I rang the Police and in the end the person who was view the porn got sack (and eventually prosecuted), management (the one's who tried to cover it up got sacked) and I got a heft pay cheque off the Chairman of the board to doing the right thing!!

    4. Re:Waste of time... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's amusing to me that the HR department, in which not one employee understands the role of any of the value-producing employees, have become the gatekeepers to employment. The only way around them is to know the right person in the department you wish to get hired in. I actually had an HR employee from a large tech company call me for a reference for an old employee of mine. I can't count how many ways he asked me the same question. I would have asked him if he was fucking deaf if I thought it wouldn't have torpedoed my old employee's chance at a job there.

    5. Re:Waste of time... by ArhcAngel · · Score: 1

      Pictures...or it didn't happen!

      --
      "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K
    6. Re:Waste of time... by Myopic · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      Apparently the achievement of UK students in language composition is similar to that of USA students. That gives me a wry sort of satisfaction.

    7. Re:Waste of time... by Myopic · · Score: 1

      Was the question "is this guy a loser"? I've had to answer that question in similar circumstances.

    8. Re:Waste of time... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Lrn 2 type better u idot!

  2. Know when by Dyinobal · · Score: 3, Funny

    You have to know when to police people. For example I only talk to people when their porn viewing habits get so strange that it started to expose the company to all sorts of lawsuits.

    1. Re:Know when by c0mpliant · · Score: 4, Informative

      That's such a bad example. Any porn viewing in a company environment leaves the company open to all sorts of lawsuits from sexual harassment to violation of ethics laws. As an IT Security professional, I need to be acutely aware of the risks the company can expose itself to. As part of our computer usage policy, anyone getting internet access must agree to express conditions of using it, for example no file downloads, no porn, no webmail etc. We monitor usage in co-ordination with blocking software to ensure compliance with this policy to ensure the safety of not just the IT infrastructure but also the companies regulatory, compliance and law requirements

      --
      There is no -1 disagree
    2. Re:Know when by mopower70 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      As an IT Security professional, I need to be acutely aware of the risks the company can expose itself to.

      "Those who specialize in security issues feel that it's a valid part of IT's job."

      And, we're done here.

    3. Re:Know when by morgan_greywolf · · Score: 3, Interesting

      You make sound as if Internet monitoring is the only sort of monitoring being done these days. Many big corporations now keep logs of files that have been executed, and some even install keyloggers and computer forensics software.

      So it isn't even just a matter of porn or file downloads or webmail. They're tracking everything done on the computer. I wonder just how useful that tracking can be, considering the huge volume of data on any network of significant size.

    4. Re:Know when by CastrTroy · · Score: 4, Interesting

      To add to that, who actually browses porn at work. I mean, every few months, I hear a story about some politician or city employee being caught browsing porn on work hours, and I just think wow. Is your job that boring? Is your life that boring? Of all the things there are on the internet that won't get you in quite so much trouble, they choose to look at porn. Not that there's anything wrong with doing it on their own time, but they have to just know it's going to end up badly. When I'm bored at work, I visit lots of non-work related websites, but I just really don't understand the porn-at-work thing.

      --

      Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
    5. Re:Know when by couchslug · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "For example I only talk to people when their porn viewing habits get so strange that it started to expose the company to all sorts of lawsuits."

      This thread is worthless without pics!

      --
      "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
    6. Re:Know when by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      As a security professional in a VERY large company, you'd be amazed how many people go to porn sites on work computers. For some people, it seems like porn is like an addiction. They crave that "stimulation" so badly that they can't wait until they're somewhere else, or perhaps they don't have a computer at home, or perhaps the only computer at home is in a public area where other people can see what they're doing. There are many reasons why someone would chose to do something like that at work.

      They also don't seem to believe the warning on the computer when they log in every morning telling them that we ARE monitoring their activities.

      The problem is that new sites pop up all of the time, so trying to block them is like the old "whack a mole" game at the carnival.

      I found one company-issued laptop with 16GB of porn videos, including kiddie porn. That was immediately turned over to the proper authorities and, if my information is correct, the former employee is now in prison.

    7. Re:Know when by VShael · · Score: 1

      It may not have been porn. It may have something risque, or marked LSFW or NSFW without actually being *porn*.

    8. Re:Know when by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      To me, this generally means they were setup somehow, because you have to be ridiculously st00pid to surf porn at work. Also, if someone pissed me off and I wanted retribution, that's exactly what I would do. I'd be in the front row at the police station as they perpwalked him in for kiddie porn.

    9. Re:Know when by Psmylie · · Score: 1

      You're right about having to know when to police people. Where I work, there are only two times IT gets into monitoring employee's network access:
      1. Troubleshooting a problem, at the employee's own request
      2. After Human Resources calls us and tells us there may be an issue.

      People in general are naturally inquisitive and there are those amongst the IT crowd that may poke their noses in where they don't belong. This raises not only privacy issues, but ethical and security issues as well, which is why the rules are in place. As one of my first IT bosses told me, "If you can't explain why you had to access that data, don't access it".

      --

      psmylie's dictionary: Godzillion (noun) Any number large enough to destroy Tokyo

    10. Re:Know when by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

      I used to have to browse porn at work - I worked on a porn links directory...

      I also had to monitor employees in case they visited accountancy or crochet pattern sites, the filthy beggars!

    11. Re:Know when by StuartHankins · · Score: 1

      Besides, isn't pron a feature of Android? Or so I've heard...

    12. Re:Know when by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      I mean, every few months, I hear a story about some politician or city employee being caught browsing porn on work hours, and I just think wow. Is your job that boring?

      To be honest, given the choice between browing porn and almost any job in the world, browing porn is going to be more interesting.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    13. Re:Know when by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Although I (and the others here) know what you meant by "file downloads", I hope you don't leave it that vague in the conditions people sign. Because if it is that vague and you decide you want to fire someone you can just point to all those .js and .png files in their temporary internet files and say, "look at all the files they downloaded".

    14. Re:Know when by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In a previous position it was my job to clean all the malware infected machines. That wouldn't be so bad except I had to document what was found and where. I'm not a puritanical zealot, but pr0n all day every day really wears on a guy.

    15. Re:Know when by ObsessiveMathsFreak · · Score: 2, Insightful

      So a Slashdotter claims that part of his workload involves being "acutely aware" of all the various kinds of porn out there, and that trolling coworkers files for instances of such constitutes a "valid part" of his job, and you say we're done here?

      Come on! This warrants at least one +5 Funny comment.

      --
      May the Maths Be with you!
    16. Re:Know when by __aasqbs9791 · · Score: 1

      Many years ago I worked for a company and we had a rather out-dated computer system. I finally convinced them to upgrade, but we still didn't have internet (which would have helped tie the different locations together for billing purposes, etc). We had a simple batch file to backup on a Zip disk one specific directory each day (which had billing information, etc in it) which was sent offsite each day and we had an employee get busted for porn because he saved it into that specific directory. Why? Well, I don't think I need to point out he wasn't the sharpest knife in the drawer, but still, this was a whole new level of stupid. Never underestimate just how incompetent people can be; some of them will surprise you every time.

    17. Re:Know when by waambulance · · Score: 1

      i have a friend who was a VP at a major bank. he got fired for looking at porn... it happens.

    18. Re:Know when by roman_mir · · Score: 4, Insightful

      putting people to prison for downloading porn, even child porn, what a fucked up society.

    19. Re:Know when by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      On the flip side why fight a losing battle - As an admin I know entire departments have passwords on a yellow post it note someplace, When I was younger I constantly fought to change this, with education with complaints etc.

      You know what I never once won against human nature. Too many people, to much intertia in management. It became a game please hide your post it sticker somewhere I wont see it when you make a support call. Having only 300 or so employees.

      Sooner or later I got to speak to all of them and I told them politely anything that they view or store on the computer I or my colleagues could see and if ordered to do so by management would have to - so dont store anything you want kept private.

      This type of 'Baby Sitting' could have eaten my entire working week - yet its not my job to enforce its the team managers who just didnt care ie its allways been that way or thats Your job the way they believe everything with a plug is IT. One of these days Im going to ring the Manager of the staff canteen and ask him to fix the office kettle because its 'Catering'.

      If you have specialised IT security professionals then it is part of their job not my mine. I keep the engine running they police the traffic laws.

    20. Re:Know when by russotto · · Score: 2, Funny

      As part of our computer usage policy, anyone getting internet access must agree to express conditions of using it, for example no file downloads, no porn, no webmail etc. We monitor usage in co-ordination with blocking software to ensure compliance with this policy to ensure the safety of not just the IT infrastructure but also the companies regulatory, compliance and law requirements

      My company has a very strict policy as well. You're expected as a condition of employment to acknowledge that you may end up seeing stuff that will burn your eyeballs out and that you're OK with that. Then you can access the whole Internet.

    21. Re:Know when by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I used to work for [a major cable company] and one of my tasks was to make sure that the playboy and other pay-per-view channels were still working.

    22. Re:Know when by dave420 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Use more lotion.

    23. Re:Know when by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      If I worked in IT then I would:

      - Use a program to filter-out requests for playboy.com and other porn sites
      - Allow streaming of radio, but impose a limit equal to Dialup speeds (i.e. 64k or less) so people don't clog the network

      That's it. It's not difficult. Is it?

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    24. Re:Know when by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thats ok, here they have random, unannounced password raids in our offices. They check under phones, keyboards, etc. If they find a password, you are put on the naughty list which gets reviewed by all the upper, upper managers and HR.

      Some days I just want to write down a bunch of random numbers, letters and symbols on sticky notes all around the office...

    25. Re:Know when by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm guessing you don't have your own office?

    26. Re:Know when by zill · · Score: 1

      Some days I just want to write down a bunch of random numbers, letters and symbols on sticky notes all around the office...

      Might not be such a good idea since the NSA routinely runs a similar type of raid...

    27. Re:Know when by Nadaka · · Score: 1

      Not at every job.

      My current employer would strongly frown on such things.

      But for my previous employer. It was occasionally a job requirement to review or monitor the video streams we were serving. Some of those streams were of an adult nature.

    28. Re:Know when by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      no file downloads

      How do your users view Web pages and associated images if they're not allowed to download files? You sound suspiciously like some IT consultants we have at our office who don't know what in the hell they're doing, but since management knows even less they were able to con them into a consulting contract worth millions.

    29. Re:Know when by PPH · · Score: 1

      no file downloads,

      OK. Protect the company from RIAA lawsuits, keep warez and virii off the machines.

      no porn,

      OK. Keep the easily offended cube-mates from accidentally seeing Goatse over an employee's shoulder.

      no webmail

      Why? Webmail in and of itself is not a hazard. And, if the company has a policy allowing occasional personal use of their system (at lunch, coffee breaks, etc.) what's the big deal? The rules concerning porn and/or downloads should apply to webmail just as they apply to surfing the 'Net for this sort of content. If you can't trust employees to use webmail responsibly from work, then why do they have Internet access at all?

      Any porn viewing in a company environment leaves the company open to all sorts of lawsuits from sexual harassment to violation of ethics laws.

      The harassment I understand*. The ethics seems strange. I've never heard of 'unethical porn'.

      *Although the reason for this is to prevent a hostile or threatening work environment. So I should be able to insist on having Christian websites blocked and employees prohibited from listening to Rush Limbaugh or Glen Beck on the radio at work.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    30. Re:Know when by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I just really don't understand the porn-at-work thing.

      I work from home, you insensitive clod!

    31. Re:Know when by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For some people, it seems like porn is like an addiction.

      That is true, and a only really good reason to block porn, as well as gambling sites. A employee trying to browse such sites should be met by a stop sign, and a very high number of stop warnings should render an investigation.

      Some occasional porn surfing on work time and work computers in not a problem.

    32. Re:Know when by Dare+nMc · · Score: 1

      Any porn viewing in a company environment leaves the company open to all sorts of lawsuits

      what if he works for someplace where this is expected; like Penthouse, Hustler, or the Vatican?

    33. Re:Know when by Local+ID10T · · Score: 1

      There is a difference between monitoring and logging. I don't monitor, but I do keep logs. Those logs are permanently archived. If there is ever a need, the logs can be pulled up, and an employee's activities can be reviewed. Anything further would be applying a technical solution to a management problem.

      --
      "You want to know how to help your kids? Leave them the fuck alone." -George Carlin
    34. Re:Know when by dekemoose · · Score: 1

      At a place I was a contractor they had a locked desk policy. Anything that was considered secured information, which included anything involving the most minute of company operating details, had to be in a secured location at the end of the day. The would periodically do sweeps looking for anything that was potentially secured information. As an employee you had a three strikes and you were out rule, third infraction was termination. As a contractor you had a two strikes rule. I got my first strike the first week I was there, before I knew about the policy, because I had a notebook in a desk drawer that wasn't locked.

      Stupid.

    35. Re:Know when by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      As part of our computer usage policy, anyone getting internet access must agree to express conditions of using it, for example no file downloads, no porn, no webmail etc.

      Are you serious? You don't allow your employees to read their personal e-mail at work (through webmail: Gmail, etc.)? That's just ridiculous.

      Can you let us know which company this is, so we can avoid applying for a job there?

    36. Re:Know when by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      As a security professional in a VERY large company, you'd be amazed how many people go to porn sites on work computers. For some people, it seems like porn is like an addiction. They crave that "stimulation" so badly that they can't wait until they're somewhere else, or perhaps they don't have a computer at home, or perhaps the only computer at home is in a public area where other people can see what they're doing.

      My company has a simple solution for this (aside from the automatic blocking software): the whole company is a "public area", at least for those who aren't highly privileged employees who get to have walled offices (HR workers, the company lawyer, and the executives and other upper management). We engineers don't have cubicles, we work in an open "bullpen" area, so coworkers and people walking by can see what you're looking at.

      Of course, this has made it difficult to get good engineers to come work here, but they don't understand that.

    37. Re:Know when by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't agree. It is better for the company to have a policy, get the employee to sign off, and then when it recieves complaints about that employee enforce the provisions they violated.

      The problem you create by being "acutely aware" of what they are looking at is that you have no created a legal liability to actually identify, and monitor all employees.

      If on the other hand you handle it as an informational policy and take steps when you are directly given information about violations, well, you've minimized your liability.

      The ACT of monitoring, and logging, actually creates legal liabilities by requiring action in the event that violations are observed.

    38. Re:Know when by Golddess · · Score: 1

      It's not difficult. Is it?

      What, maintaining an up-to-date list of every single porn and radio site? Nah, I'm sure it's easy. :P

      --
      "I'm not sure I like the fugnutish tone you used in your post!" -RogL (608926)-
    39. Re:Know when by Hyppy · · Score: 1

      Heard of Websense? It has a nice little checkmark for "Porn". It also has a nice checkmark for "automatically update myself". Online radio, well... that's another issue.

    40. Re:Know when by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I stopped reading the rest of your post when you used a made-up word in the first sentence.

    41. Re:Know when by Mr.+Freeman · · Score: 1

      "no file downloads"

      I think your entire staff is in need of firing because there's no way in hell you can actually view the web without downloading a file.

      --
      -1 disagree is not a modifier for a reason. -1 troll, flaimbait, redundant, overrated are NOT acceptable substitutes.
    42. Re:Know when by Mr.+Freeman · · Score: 1

      Yeah, because web filters are always 100% accurate and there's no way to bypass them at all.

      --
      -1 disagree is not a modifier for a reason. -1 troll, flaimbait, redundant, overrated are NOT acceptable substitutes.
    43. Re:Know when by Mr.+Freeman · · Score: 1

      "We engineers don't have cubicles, we work in an open "bullpen" area"

      That's actually an excellent solution. Your company won't attract anyone that's any good at their job and will thus be out of business inside of two years. Then you won't have anything to worry about.

      --
      -1 disagree is not a modifier for a reason. -1 troll, flaimbait, redundant, overrated are NOT acceptable substitutes.
    44. Re:Know when by NateTech · · Score: 1

      Ah, I see you've never looked at the cookies on most executive's machines, then... especially at small companies.

      As for the speech, spoken like a true-blue security guy. Somehow I'm glad you think it's important, but the shady deals and horsecrap that Sales is constantly up to in most organizations large enough to even have IT security people, since smaller firms simply can't afford to pay people to work on only IT Security all day... those deals and silliness put your job and the company at FAR more real-world risk than some idiot in Operations surfing porn on the late-shift.

      Morals and ethics matter, is all you're saying at the end of the day. And HR departments are way too scared to fire people over ethics issues these days. "Oh (s)he just has a different set of cultural values, we have to put him on a work-improvement program first before we can fire him/her."

      Unless you work in Banking or Finance... then it's the traders that put you at risk. Things they do every day could mean you are laid off tomorrow. A sexual harassment lawsuit is literally nothing compared to that.

      One of the funniest things (or saddest) that I've seen over 20+ years in this industry is "security" people not even able to see the REAL risks to the company, compared to the chump change "someone saw porn on a computer at the office" lawsuit.

      By the way, if you architect it right -- and I say this, 'cause I've seen it done when execs wanted it -- you CAN build a network where the items that MUST run for continuity of the business, will continue to run, even if some moron gets a laptop infection and spreads it to other machines. I've seen plenty of companies run WIDE OPEN Internet access, and do just fine. Maybe a single virus outbreak in a five year period. All contained to the production laptop/desktop network, kept from spreading beyond a single site, and no company data breaches... and all critical company systems ran just fine during the "desktop" outage.

      Your company's "lockdown" is more a cultural thing than a technical necessity. Seen both models. Seen the open one work, just fine... when the network and firewalls/ACL's/access are built RIGHT.

      --
      +++OK ATH
    45. Re:Know when by jp10558 · · Score: 1

      Well, yes, but so is slashdot or streams of the daily show or youtube etc... And they are usually less likely to get you fired. Heck, if you get on a forum or blog about something vaguely related to your job, you might get away with even claiming it's work related!

      --
      Opera, Proxomitron-Grypen,GPG 0x0A1C6EE3
    46. Re:Know when by azmodean+1 · · Score: 1

      The problem with WebSense and it's ilk isn't really the false negatives, if you are dedicated enough to find unblocked sites that have what you're looking for, you're probably dedicated enough to proxy around them somehow. The real problem is false positives. I frequently will be following the trail of some work-pertinent information (usually a workaround for some obscure software bug) only to have it end with "this site is blocked due to: Personal sites".

      I'm not claiming I don't waste time online at work (I'm here aren't I?), but WebSense doesn't seem to impact that at all, and it does interfere with my actual work on a pretty regular basis.

      P.S. My experience is with WebSense, but I'm not saying they are bad in particular, it's the whole approach that is deeply flawed.

    47. Re:Know when by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      That's actually an excellent solution. Your company won't attract anyone that's any good at their job and will thus be out of business inside of two years.

      You'd think, but this company's been in business since the late 80s or early 90s, so they're limping along somehow. Some of my coworkers are actually pretty decent engineers and some have been with the company for over 15 years; I don't know how they stand it. However, upper management seems to be getting more stupid all the time, especially as they continue to add even more layers of management without adding any engineers, so I imagine at some point it's going to collapse.

    48. Re:Know when by Golddess · · Score: 1

      No I haven't.

      But if Websense involves using a list of sites someone else maintains, my point stands. If it functions via keyword filter, we all know how well those work in practice (either filters out too much, or some things slip through). If it's neither of those, I'd be interested in knowing just how it works.

      --
      "I'm not sure I like the fugnutish tone you used in your post!" -RogL (608926)-
  3. Panopticon is here to stay by Xemu · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Society is growing used to more extensive monitoring overall. We monitor our babies with webcams. The webcams are then used in schools to monitor class rooms and playgrounds. When we grow up, we rename them security cameras and appoint low wage individuals as our watchmen.
    In some areas of the world such as the UK, computers are already being used to analyze the images from the security cameras. Storage capacity grows, and data gathered from the image analysis are stored for a lifetime. They can be used to enhance the analysis of your children's children. The ones which protests are considered suspicious with "something to hide". The ruling class are the only ones exempt from monitoring.
    In the next step, computers are used to analyse images from private bedrooms and bathrooms. After all, who needs to worry about privacy when it's only a computer watching. It's all about protecting us from the boogey man. Think of the children!

    Resistance is futile. You will be monitored.

    --
    Tell your friends about xenu.net
    1. Re:Panopticon is here to stay by StripedCow · · Score: 1

      You forgot to mention the nanobots that will be swimming through our blood vessels.

      --
      If Pandora's box is destined to be opened, *I* want to be the one to open it.
    2. Re:Panopticon is here to stay by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      In the next step, computers are used to analyse images from private bedrooms and bathrooms.

      I can see it now ... "How dare you say I've not got much to hide!"

    3. Re:Panopticon is here to stay by nurb432 · · Score: 1

      In the next step, computers are used to analyse images from private bedrooms and bathrooms. After all, who needs to worry about privacy when it's only a computer watching. It's all about protecting us from the boogey man. Think of the children!

      Resistance is futile. You will be monitored.

      Some people do that now, and you can buy the videos on line. :)

      --
      ---- Booth was a patriot ----
    4. Re:Panopticon is here to stay by DaMattster · · Score: 1

      Society is growing used to more extensive monitoring overall. We monitor our babies with webcams. The webcams are then used in schools to monitor class rooms and playgrounds. When we grow up, we rename them security cameras and appoint low wage individuals as our watchmen. In some areas of the world such as the UK, computers are already being used to analyze the images from the security cameras. Storage capacity grows, and data gathered from the image analysis are stored for a lifetime. They can be used to enhance the analysis of your children's children. The ones which protests are considered suspicious with "something to hide". The ruling class are the only ones exempt from monitoring. In the next step, computers are used to analyse images from private bedrooms and bathrooms. After all, who needs to worry about privacy when it's only a computer watching. It's all about protecting us from the boogey man. Think of the children!

      Resistance is futile. You will be monitored.

      Fear is an amazingly powerful controller. Why do you think the news/government tries to mention terrorism as much as it can? A state of fear keeps people generally in a blind obedience to totalitarian inroads. I cannot help but think that the movie, V for Vendetta, is a scarily astute observation/political commentary to what fear and blind following does to a society. Mix that with strong religious overtones and you have the tools for manipulation of the masses.

  4. Re:Please do by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That's what you think, Fido. I'll just shut the curtains, shorten your chain around that tree, and let you eat grass until you stop peeing on my carpet.

  5. You have to. by AnonymousClown · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "He goes through the logs to see if there's anything in there that needs to be exposed or discussed." Activity related to porn, gambling or hate speech automatically raises red flags, he says.

    He once caught an employee who was engaged in criminal activity involving intellectual property that could have resulted in a big financial loss for the company.

    Many years ago, I was in the company's server room talking to a buddy and he mentioned that an employee was taking up quite a bit of drive space - with porn. The guy had a problem. All you need is one guy with a problem like that to download some kiddie porn and your business will be shut down and you go to jail - over an employee with a problem. The guy I mentioned was talked to and I think he was asked to resign.

    Observers say IT managers can expect to be asked to take on even more monitoring duties, such are reviewing video surveillance, examining text messages, tracking employee location by GPS or listening in on social media.

    That's going too far. Come on - a Stalinist company?!?

    Larger companies have started to hire third-party firms to monitor what's said about them in the blogosphere and on social media sites, but in many midsize and small companies, this duty could fall to IT.

    That's also going too far. It's one thing what an employee does on company time and with company's resources, but they do on their own time - as long as it's legal shouldn't be a company's business.

    --
    RIP America

    July 4, 1776 - September 11, 2001

    1. Re:You have to. by betterunixthanunix · · Score: 2, Interesting

      What bothers me about this whole situation is that the IT guys are not managers -- so why are they watching over the employees to any degree? It is one thing if someone happens to stumble across something unusual, such as your example with the excessive disk space, and then reports that to a manager, but it is quite another story when IT guys are being asked to actively monitor other employees. The managers should be the people who watch over the employees and make sure that the equipment (i.e. computers) is being used properly, and they should not try to pass off that responsibility to someone else.

      --
      Palm trees and 8
    2. Re:You have to. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      at my company, silly little ideas that one man could shutdown the company, aren't easily entertained.

      Maybe that's because we have qualified attorney's on staff and not morons that seem to fill the ranks of your company.

      People do bad shit every day, using work resources and time, and the companies don't close. That's because police for several decades, and companies generally know how to work together. The company provides the police with the information they need, and the INDIVIDUAL is prosecuted.

      but let me not get int he way of your flawed rationalization.

      if we have an employee with a problem, the value he provides will be measured against the seriousness of the problem. the devil is in the details, each case is different, and the facts must be weighed carefully.

      if the employee is asked to leave, and was not reported to the police, and the problem was serious, then you are guilty of covering up crimes.

      In the course of your investigation, is it normal to raise the specter of certain types of inflammatory violations without a shred of proof? And if there was proof why did you not call the police?

    3. Re:You have to. by nikanth · · Score: 1

      That's also going too far. It's one thing what an employee does on company time and with company's resources, but they do on their own time - as long as it's legal shouldn't be a company's business.

      If it is public anyone can watch you. As long as they don't interfere on your free time activities, it should be fine.

    4. Re:You have to. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The problem is, it's already happening. Someone at the place I work was recently suspended because he quoted some obscure cartoon show. Something about dressing up as a human and raising hell over something at work. He was called in, then escorted out and his badge suspended the next morning. It was a comment on facebook or twitter or something. He's a known loudmouth and a hothead, but he's not dangerous. They were more afraid of the things he said on his blog than the usual slacking and loud mouthed commentary he makes in the office.

      The whole things crazy and is getting out of hand. Sure, if he's plain out said "I'm going to shoot the place up" it would have been a problem, but he was blowing off steam and talking about 'raising hell'. That's not a threat of violence, just loud mouthedness. And this promises to only get worse with time.

    5. Re:You have to. by MobyDisk · · Score: 4, Insightful

      All you need is one guy with a problem like that to download some kiddie porn and your business will be shut down and you go to jail

      I want to challenge this. This has been posted 10+ times in this discussion with nothing to back it up. Why would the activities of an individual in the company result in shutting down the company and sending anyone to jail? That makes no sense.

      On a related note: This is how EULAs come to exist. Someone assumes that they might be liable for some action someone else performs. So they try to get around it by making you agree to some big contract that waives liability. Over time the EULA grows, filled with such legal fallacies until it becomes 20 pages of legaleeze. In reality, there never was any liability in the first place.

    6. Re:You have to. by SleazyRidr · · Score: 1

      as long as it's legal shouldn't be a company's business.

      I'd go further than that. Even if I am breaking the law, if it's outside work hours and not using company equipment it's between me and the police, nothing to do with who I work for.

    7. Re:You have to. by Just+Some+Guy · · Score: 1

      I want to challenge this. This has been posted 10+ times in this discussion with nothing to back it up. Why would the activities of an individual in the company result in shutting down the company and sending anyone to jail? That makes no sense.

      Excellent point! On the one hand, we'll gripe at how BP and other corporations can practically cause extinction events without so much as a slap on the hand. On the other, we'll patiently explain that if Jane in Accounting catches a glimpse of Britney getting out of a car on Joe's desktop, then the whole chain of command is going to PMITA prison.

      --
      Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
    8. Re:You have to. by toddestan · · Score: 1

      What happens is the feds come busting in and take everything in the server room, and hold it for 'evidence' until they feel like giving it back (which may be never). This can be a big problem if they manage to nab the backups too, or for smaller operations the cost of replacing all that hardware and getting back up and running can be a serious hit.

    9. Re:You have to. by MobyDisk · · Score: 1

      You just argued against a hyperbole using a hyperbole.

  6. Waste of time by Jjeff1 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    As I tell my customers when they ask, "You can't fix behavioral issues with technology." If employees want to waste time instead of working, they can surf the web or send chain emails. Take that away, they can play solitaire. Take that away, they can gab around the water cooler or stare into space and day-dream. Blocking porn and gambling sites is probably a good idea for liability purposes, but I can't see that it helps productivity.

    Most frequently I'm asked to look at log files or email and tell employers things that I simply cannot know. I can tell them that an employee didn't log in to their PC until 10am, but I have no way of knowing when they actually arrived at work.

    1. Re:Waste of time by Chrisq · · Score: 2, Insightful

      As I tell my customers when they ask, "You can't fix behavioral issues with technology." If employees want to waste time instead of working, they can surf the web or send chain emails. Take that away, they can play solitaire. Take that away, they can gab around the water cooler or stare into space and day-dream. Blocking porn and gambling sites is probably a good idea for liability purposes, but I can't see that it helps productivity. Most frequently I'm asked to look at log files or email and tell employers things that I simply cannot know. I can tell them that an employee didn't log in to their PC until 10am, but I have no way of knowing when they actually arrived at work.

      I don't know, if the banned slashdot I would probably be working on a programming problem. On the other hand if they hadn't banned orgasm.com i'd ......

    2. Re:Waste of time by Silly+Man · · Score: 1

      Blocking porn and gambling sites is probably a good idea for liability purposes, but I can't see that it helps productivity.

      Blocking highly addictive sites such as porn and gambling...I CAN see how that would help productivity.

    3. Re:Waste of time by ElectricTurtle · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If my employer blocked /. I'd be on Dice.com right now.

      I have a friend whose employer actually encourages him to read /. because it increases his awareness of emerging things in the IT field. I'm inclined to agree.

      --
      I support the Slashcott and will not be reading or commenting from 2/10/14 to 2/17/14. Beta is steaming pile of dog shit
    4. Re:Waste of time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      employer actually encourages him to read /. because it increases his awareness of emerging things in the IT field

      Wait... Slashdot? You're talking about Slashdot?

    5. Re:Waste of time by xjerky · · Score: 1

      "If my employer blocked /. I'd be on Dice.com right now."

      If they blocked slashdot, you can bet they'd also be blocking dice.com....

      --
      A sentence you'll never see on an Internet discussion board: "You know what? You're right."
  7. Where do you work? by linzeal · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Unless you are working for a fortune 500 company whose image is often worth more than its current product line up, who cares? The only filters I have ever ran at a company I did IT for was for a list of of words that included, Lolita, Child Porn, Underage, No-nude and Preteen. We caught one contractor during the 8 months I worked there and it was his personal laptop, so we contacted the FBI. He was arrested on suspicion and they found enough Child Porn on his home computers that we never heard about him again, I moved before it could be brought to trial.

    People surf porn at work that is just going to happen, if there work does not suffer and they are adults it is far more worthwhile to spend time worrying about security which can get you in real trouble.

    1. Re:Where do you work? by Chrisq · · Score: 1

      People surf porn at work that is just going to happen, if there work does not suffer and they are adults it is far more worthwhile to spend time worrying about security which can get you in real trouble.

      Even if you're careful you can get caught out by a "goatse" type link on slashdot, or once even on a supplier's technical support forum.

    2. Re:Where do you work? by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      The only filters I have ever ran at a company I did IT for was for a list of of words that included, Lolita, Child Porn, Underage, No-nude and Preteen.

      Sorry for the ignorance, but if a picture has no nudity, then how can it be porn, especially kiddie porn? I don't get it.

    3. Re:Where do you work? by linzeal · · Score: 1

      No-nude preteen pics from Eastern European countries. Google it, I did not believe it myself.

    4. Re:Where do you work? by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      I think I'm still missing something. Yeah, I think there's something wrong with a guy if he wants to look at pictures of preteens, but if the kids are fully clothed, I don't see how it counts as "kiddie porn", or should even be illegal.

    5. Re:Where do you work? by farble1670 · · Score: 1

      Even if you're careful you can get caught out by a "goatse" type link on slashdot, or once even on a supplier's technical support forum.

      the only time you'd get fired for an occasional infraction is if they are looking for a reason to fire you. if you are a valued employee, they aren't going to let you go because they see a single porno image in your weblog every few weeks.

  8. As an IT Manager for a small company by ircmaxell · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I personally don't care what other people do in general. I am not their boss, and it's not my job to police what they do during work hours. I do keep logs, so if a person's manager wants to see what they've been doing I can give them a report. The only thing that I personally care about is employee behavior that may compromise my network. I do watch TCP traffic for abnormalities, and do have a black list of sites that will alert me if someone tries to visit something dangerous. Other then that, I really could care less if someone spends half their day on Facebook. It's not my job to make sure that other people are working...

    --
    If a man isn't willing to take some risk for his opinions, either his opinions are no good or he's no good
    1. Re:As an IT Manager for a small company by JustOK · · Score: 1

      Yet, they're talking about what if it became part of your job. Why do you care "personally" about your network? It's the company's network. You don't consider Facebook as a potentially dangerous site to visit?

      --
      rewriting history since 2109
    2. Re:As an IT Manager for a small company by ircmaxell · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Why do you care "personally" about your network?

      I consider it my network (and care about it), because of two reasons. First, I'm responsible for maintaining it. So when someone else fucks it up, I have to fix it (at whatever cost, whenever it's needed). Second, because I'm responsible for it, so if it goes down it looks bad upon me (Even if it was someone else's problem). I may be a rare bread in recent times, but I actually care about what I do and the way I am perceived to others (with regards to my work at least). If people can't do work because my network is having problems, that's my fault. So to save myself the potential hassle, I take proactive measures.

      I don't consider Facebook dangers. I do consider pages that are linked to by Facebook dangerous. But if I black listed any site that linked to dangerous content, I'd have to take away the entire internet. And I don't consider it my place to tell users what sites are valid for business reasons and those that are not. Some people do use Facebook for actual work (some of us do research on people, so sometimes they do need to visit Facebook, Linkedin, Twitter, etc)...

      --
      If a man isn't willing to take some risk for his opinions, either his opinions are no good or he's no good
    3. Re:As an IT Manager for a small company by nurb432 · · Score: 1

      Its your job if HR or security asks you to do it.

      --
      ---- Booth was a patriot ----
    4. Re:As an IT Manager for a small company by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, it's his job if they modify his contract to make it his job. Or did you sign something that said "this company now ownz joo!!!"

    5. Re:As an IT Manager for a small company by Rivalz · · Score: 1

      Not your job to make sure they are working but from my stand point it is your job to collect and report who is. I liked it when my company wanted me to start monitoring users. I used it as a talking point to get a raise. I had to get a new cert to sell them on it but at least I was able to get something extra out of the added work.

      But monitoring is so easy I don't see what the big deal is. Personally I like that the line between IT and Management is blurring. Usually means more pay and easier work.

    6. Re:As an IT Manager for a small company by ircmaxell · · Score: 1

      No, it's not. I will (and do) provide any information HR or Security (which we don't have) wants whenever they ask for it. I do have logging processes to watch what everyone's doing. But I don't look at it and point out to others that Joe Blow is constantly on xyz.com. If HR asks me for the logs on Joe Blow, I will gladly generate them a nice report. But if they asked me to "Tell them those people who are using the computers for non-work activities", I would tell them no. Not because I don't want to, but because I'm not in a position to decide what constitutes a "non-work activity". Plus, it's my job to maintain our IT infrastructure, not to monitor users. If they want me to do that, then they will need to alter my job title (and hence my salary, as that would be a significant increase in responsibility)...

      --
      If a man isn't willing to take some risk for his opinions, either his opinions are no good or he's no good
    7. Re:As an IT Manager for a small company by bigstrat2003 · · Score: 1

      No, that merely means that those people think it's your job. And even that doesn't mean a thing if those people aren't your boss(es).

      --
      "16MB (fuck off, MiB fascists)" - The Mighty Buzzard
    8. Re:As an IT Manager for a small company by nurb432 · · Score: 1

      Try that out in real life and you will find yourself out on the street in the unemployment line.

      "Other duties as assigned" and refusal would be insubordination and lead to immediate termination.

      --
      ---- Booth was a patriot ----
    9. Re:As an IT Manager for a small company by nurb432 · · Score: 1

      Not been out of college very long have you? Refusing to do reasonable duties as requested by management will make it a short career for you.

      Good luck in your next job and don't bother applying to work for me.

      --
      ---- Booth was a patriot ----
    10. Re:As an IT Manager for a small company by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      I consider it my network (and care about it)

      Hey, Terry Childs, how ya been, man?

    11. Re:As an IT Manager for a small company by ircmaxell · · Score: 2, Informative

      Refusing to do reasonable duties as requested by management will make it a short career for you.

      Where do you get that? I never said I was refusing to do a reasonable duty. What I said was that I am unable to do a duty that requires me to make decisions that I am not empowered to make. I've been asked more than once to do things that I was not empowered to do (either by company policy, or by my direct boss's direction), and each time that situation came up, I negotiated it into a raise and an increase in responsibility.

      You're right, saying no when they ask you to do something will make a short career. But I don't say no, I say that I am sorry but I am unable to to do that because of x y and z. If they say to do it anyway, then I would normally either go to my direct boss, or as high as I need to (depending on who's asking) to get permission...

      --
      If a man isn't willing to take some risk for his opinions, either his opinions are no good or he's no good
    12. Re:As an IT Manager for a small company by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I may be a rare bread in recent times

      You are indeed.

    13. Re:As an IT Manager for a small company by nurb432 · · Score: 1

      Once you are asked by management that oversees that area of the company you are instantly empowered. ( perhaps not qualified, but that isn't relevant anymore in the world ).

      Good for you that your direct management allows you to renegotiate salary with added responsibility, but that doesn't change what i was saying, refusal isn't an answer.

      Some could argue if this is a reasonable request or not, but i would contend it is.

      --
      ---- Booth was a patriot ----
    14. Re:As an IT Manager for a small company by ircmaxell · · Score: 1

      Once you are asked by management that oversees that area of the company you are instantly empowered.

      Perhaps in your company, but not in mine. In mine, there is a chain of command above me. My boss (CTO) and then the Owner of the company/CEO. Someone from outside that chain doesn't have a right (and this has been proven several times) to empower/remove power from my position. Otherwise you wind up with a situation where one person reports to 5 people, and how can you have effective management when there are too many chiefs and one Indian? Sure, it's not how all companies are run (and maybe not most), but that's how it is here. And that's part of why I like it. If I screw up, I hear it from one person (and not the Office Space's 9). If I need something, I go to one person. There's no ambiguity. That's what makes me effective at my job. The very fact that I know clearly who to go to, and that I receive orders from only one person (Others can ask me for help, but it's ultimately my boss's decision if I feel uncomfortable/under-empowered doing it). Other then that, I'm left to just do my job and make my own decisions. So in my company, it would not be a reasonable request (since it didn't go through proper channels). And that's what it boils down to, isn't it. You need to tailor your work ethic and method of operation to the company you are working for. And I like the company that I'm at now (partly because everything is so clear)...

      --
      If a man isn't willing to take some risk for his opinions, either his opinions are no good or he's no good
    15. Re:As an IT Manager for a small company by gsmalleus · · Score: 1

      I may be a rare bread in recent times

      And if you screw up your job, you will become a rare toast.

    16. Re:As an IT Manager for a small company by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Secret: no-one wants to work for you.

    17. Re:As an IT Manager for a small company by farble1670 · · Score: 1

      Other then that, I really could care less if someone spends half their day on Facebook. It's not my job to make sure that other people are working...

      you might care if you like your job, because if someone is on facebook all day it's $ out the window, which means less profit, fewer raises, and maybe even layoffs.

    18. Re:As an IT Manager for a small company by doesnothingwell · · Score: 1

      The owner of our company enjoyed a little porn and said we just had to share. There was a folder on the server where we put it for him. We developed software and trying to filter us all would have been a real waste of resources. I would have to do installs at jails and prosecutor's offices, sometimes they had the freaky stuff.

      --
      They can have my command prompt when they pry it from my cold dead fingers.
    19. Re:As an IT Manager for a small company by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I may be a rare bread in recent times,

      I don't think this means what you think it does...

  9. Employee monitoring is not really new by betterunixthanunix · · Score: 4, Insightful

    When it comes to being employed, though, bosses and managers have always watched their employees to some degree -- that is, of course, the purpose of being the boss. A good boss knows what sort of things are worth confronting an employee about -- maybe it is OK for someone to be chatting with their sweetheart, as long as their work is getting done, but maybe it is not OK for someone to be watching their sweetheart stripping in a video chat even if the work is getting done.

    TFA raises a slightly different issue: when one employee is asked to monitor the others. Sysadmins should not be asked to take on the responsibility of watching employees; that is a manager's responsibility. If the manager is not technically competent to monitor computer use, then there is a question of why that person is managing people who use computers for their work -- the manager should be competent with the equipment.

    --
    Palm trees and 8
    1. Re:Employee monitoring is not really new by Dorkmaster+Flek · · Score: 1

      There you go using logic again. We don't take kindly to logic 'round these parts...

      --
      I like to think of online DRM as something akin to a college -- you pay for lessons until you learn something.
    2. Re:Employee monitoring is not really new by Foxxxy · · Score: 1

      But if companies put in position mandates "Other duties as assigned" which can include monitoring others. I think that it is good to watch what is going on but not to the extent of social networking sites and GPS etc. I personally monitor the enterprise for mob behavior such as a 400% spike in internet traffic with people watching the world cup or streaming radio. I then crunch the numbers and show what the cost of said traffic is to the business and let the business decide if it continues or if I stop it.

      My job is to ensure a stable and high performing network for the enterprise, part of that is watching what people are doing and stopping things that can degrade the stability or performance of the network as a whole. I don't look at it as monitoring co-workers, I see it as monitoring the network, what I am paid to do. The fact that humans are the ones generating the traffic doesn't matter, I really don't care who is doing it, just that it is being done.

      We aren't here to single people out (unless asked to), just do the job that we are paid for.

    3. Re:Employee monitoring is not really new by iamhigh · · Score: 3, Interesting

      If the manager is not technically competent to monitor computer use, then there is a question of why that person is managing people who use computers for their work -- the manager should be competent with the equipment.

      That's a bit much. The accounting manager should be able to keep up with the latest ways to hide computer usage? Does that mean the most able computer user should be the head of each department regardless of ability to manage that department? Also, aren't the guys trying to hide stuff more likely to become the most compentent user therefore allowing them to be the "boss". Of course that means as you go up the the chain of the company it just keeps being more and more technically superior people, regardless of ability to do the job.

      No, I'll stick with the idea that the department manager should know his specific job better than anyone. That includes the IT Manager, and he should be ultimately responsible for all computer usage.

      --
      No comprende? Let me type that a little slower for you...
    4. Re:Employee monitoring is not really new by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      By his logic an employee who conforms to arbitrary rules yet doesn't get work done is preferable to an employee who doesn't.

      By that logic it's all about control and subjugation and not actually getting things done.

      A nasty human trait...

    5. Re:Employee monitoring is not really new by captainpanic · · Score: 1

      The main issue here is:

      At work, my ass basically belongs to my boss. I do work, he pays me. He can check if I do my work. I would prefer that he informs me if our IT guys also monitor me - but I am aware that this is possible.

      At home, my ass belongs to me. And I don't need to have a government that checks me. I pay them (tax), I vote for them, and I will check them rather than them spying on me.

      It's vitally important to differentiate between the two situations, or you may end up either without a job or without any privacy.

    6. Re:Employee monitoring is not really new by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't see how your position is at odds from the GP. "Being competent with the equipment" does not mean that the manager has to be the best user of the equipment in the department, it just means that they are competent. Which to me is fundemental to being a manager.

    7. Re:Employee monitoring is not really new by betterunixthanunix · · Score: 1

      Did I say the manager has to be the most competent user of the equipment? All I said was that the manager should be competent with the equipment -- competent enough to perform an occasional check to see if people are actually doing their jobs. Sure, if someone is going to put effort into hiding their activities, then it would take an expert to detect that, but I was not referring to such cases. Sure, the accounting manager will not be an expert in computer security...but I can make a similar case that the accountants that he manages are also not likely to be experts at computer intrusion or data hiding.

      How is it unreasonable to think that someone who manages employees that use computers for their work should have the level of technical proficiency needed to perform a casual check of computer use? It is no different than expecting a manager to have a certain level of knowledge about any other equipment that his particular employees use.

      --
      Palm trees and 8
    8. Re:Employee monitoring is not really new by ThatsNotPudding · · Score: 1

      When it comes to being employed, though, bosses and managers have always watched their employees to some degree

      The point is now it has become easier and especially cheaper do so effectively. This is what's so disheartening; those who said they cared about freedom and privacy were/are lying: merely biding their time until the ROI for the tools of oppression become irresistable. And this is a one-way trip; no cavalry is coming to the rescue once the whole world is turned into North Korea.

    9. Re:Employee monitoring is not really new by iamhigh · · Score: 1

      It is slightly different because I don't know of any other tool used in an office that can facilitate so many diverse activities. I can't think of many other tools used in an office (or a manu plant even) where there can be such a gap from "knowing proper usage to complete the job" and "knowing how to tell if any misuse has occured".

      It's really easy to tell if a guy is misusing a gun; you see him point and twirling it. It's obvious even to a complete noob. But trying to catch a guy perhaps using TOR to download and then encrypt porn is difficult for an experienced computer user.

      --
      No comprende? Let me type that a little slower for you...
  10. Luck for me.... by Slash.Poop · · Score: 1

    ...our Boss does not want to monitor our employees.

    However, as IT we know that SOME monitoring has to be done. We have found out that MOST of our monitoring does not even need to take place. We simply restrict access through Active Directory and DNS.

  11. Re:Please do by AHuxley · · Score: 5, Insightful

    we pretend to work; they pretend to pay us

    --
    Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
  12. Service Vs Manufacturing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If production output cannot be monitored then most businesses would like to monitor the distractions.

    I had one company I was doing some extra work for on the side pull me into the managers office to question me about the number of personal calls I had during work hours. I understood their point but kindly related that it was my girlfriend who I would talk to and I worked while I was on the phone. Which is basically me saying yes, uh huh, and wow for about 20 minutes just to make her happy. Btw I work 2 full time jobs doing tech work. Which they understood before me entering.
    I don't blame them for wanting to get the most for their money but the days of the I pay you to do this and only this are well gone. There are a lot of things they expect outside of the hours I'm payed for. If i have to keep up on like education, events, practices without compensation then it is a trade off.

    Eventually I resigned after I worked 2 weekends of overtime remotely for them. I was suppose to be paid but they tried screwing me over and not paying me OT. I eventually got paid, but from my standpoint the Employer has all the leverage.

  13. it's a valid part of IT's job by nurb432 · · Score: 1

    Since today's job world is so intertwined with technology, yes, its now part of the job of IT.

    --
    ---- Booth was a patriot ----
    1. Re:it's a valid part of IT's job by betterunixthanunix · · Score: 2, Interesting

      By analogy, imagine a railroad. Instead of computers, we have locomotives, and instead of IT staff, we have mechanics who maintain those locomotives. Now, whose responsibility should it be to check it on the employees who operate the locomotives to make sure they are doing their job, the mechanics, or the manager?

      Passive monitoring is one thing -- if an IT worker sees something strange, like an employee storing many terabytes of porn on company computers, then of course that should be reported to the boss. Active monitoring is another story -- IT staff should not be expected to check in on employee activity on the computers to make sure that people are working. Actively monitoring the employees is a manager's job.

      --
      Palm trees and 8
    2. Re:it's a valid part of IT's job by nurb432 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Its not an accurate analogy to compare locomotive mechanics and IT staff. Using a airline, and stewardesses would be closer since train mechanics don't ride with the passengers

      But that said, i don't care who you are, if management says you are to monitor, then its your job. Hell, if the says 'don't worry about the servers, go mop the floor', then that is your job for the day.

      --
      ---- Booth was a patriot ----
    3. Re:it's a valid part of IT's job by rhsanborn · · Score: 1

      The problem is that it is currently a job being done by IT whereas it should be a job facilitated by IT (providing the means to do monitoring), but handled by managers, or people dedicated to such a task.

    4. Re:it's a valid part of IT's job by hesiod · · Score: 1

      Sure, if your employment contract says you do anything your boss tells you. Lucky for me, I don't have the obviously-shitty job you do, and my job responsibilities are limited and are filed with HR.

    5. Re:it's a valid part of IT's job by nurb432 · · Score: 1

      If you honestly believe you can refuse to do a reasonable task assigned by management and not get fired ( with zero recourse ), you are deluding yourself.

      The only place that might actually be true is if you are a member of a union. Other then that, if you try telling the boss to goto hell, don't let the door hit you on the way out.

      --
      ---- Booth was a patriot ----
    6. Re:it's a valid part of IT's job by mikechant · · Score: 1

      Hell, if the says 'don't worry about the servers, go mop the floor', then that is your job for the day.

      No, that is the point where you ask very politely if this policy of getting very expensive employees to do probably pointless minimum wage work has the approval of *his* boss, and to ask your HR representative how this fits with company policy.

      There is absolutely no point in being a spineless jellyfish in a case like this; clearly 'the boss' wants to get rid of you. In countries where there is any sort of decent employment protection, such a request would be considered totally unreasonable and illegal and the company's HR department etc. would know this and side with you against your boss; in countries with no real employment protection, presumably he's going to get rid of you one way or another anyhow.

      This doesn't mean that I necessarily think it's unreasonable for your boss to tell you to get involved in employee monitoring; it's at least arguable that such a function might be part of your job.

      But there are lines to be drawn, for example where you could have some personal civil and/or criminal liability if you screw up in a job you are not trained or certified for (electrical work, use of hazardous chemicals, coding an aircraft fly-by-wire system, whatever).

    7. Re:it's a valid part of IT's job by mxh83 · · Score: 1

      Sycophant, much?

  14. honestly by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Honestly, in the IT departments I've worked in that do care about monitoring, it really lets you easily know who has fascist tendencies (not surprisingly, they also tend to be severe hypocrites). That's not to say that anyone who cares about monitoring has fascist tendencies, but there are certain types of people who really seem to relish the power/authority that monitoring gives them.

  15. BOFH by dkleinsc · · Score: 2, Funny

    The real problem with official monitoring duties is that you have to send the results to management instead of the local newspaper, or maybe a television show.

    --
    I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
  16. when my budget is cut by archangel9 · · Score: 2

    and they hire some wanker to perform a six-figure vapor-job such as "business development" and I find his user/IP spending 5 hours out of the day on time-wasting sites, that's when I take the report to the COO. Don't hack and slash IT resources to let some slacker take up my bandwidth with car races on YouTube and 360.

    underpaid (if only in my mind): check.
    bitter on weekdays: check.
    vindictive: check.

  17. There's some paranoia at play, too. by Delusion_ · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I worked IT at a mortgage company run by someone without much in the way of morals. He wanted a print-tracking solution to monitor who was printing and what they were printing. As it happens, I later worked for a company which provided this exact solution, but ultimately it didn't matter because what he wanted was something he didn't want to spend any actual money on, and at the time any solutions were resource-intensive for a file and print server running on a then-midline Pentium 166 MHz, so it would have required spending money on hardware upgrades, too.

    He wanted this solution to protect his leads, which he was convinced were walking out the door from employees taking them and selling them to his competitors; ultimately, it was one of those cases of suspecting other people were doing exactly what he would have done in their situation. I suspect there's a fair amount of this attitude, and it's probably more common in smaller businesses than Fortune 500 companies, who are generally more interested in liability.

  18. Productivity does not come with surveillance by Opportunist · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It comes with a worker's willingness to work for you. If he WANTS to actually work for you instead of just getting paid for spending time at your office, he will work. Else he will do a half assed job, surveillance or not.

    If you give your employees freedom and the ability to actually enjoy working for you, they will be much more productive. Because they WANT to be productive. Because they WANT your company to be successful, because that means they can keep that job. Sure, you will always have the ones that slack off, and not putting an eye on them constantly sure gives them an easier way to do that. But their coworkers, the ones that actually want to work for you and do want your company to thrive because it means a good, enjoyable job for them, will quickly identify such slackers and they will do the surveillance for you. Peer pressure can be quite powerful, to the point where your slackers will quickly realize that it's not the boss but the other employees that get angry with him if he's not pulling his weight. Plus, you can do without the investment in cams and surveillance staff. Your workers will do that for you. For free.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    1. Re:Productivity does not come with surveillance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, it's manager's duty to filter those who want to work in any case; those who need some help or motivation; and those who don't really want work. The monitoring won't push people into another category, but it will allow you to identify slackers early and get rid of them quickly - as in the long run, tolerating slackers demotivates the good, hard working employees who then have to pick up the slack afterwards.

    2. Re:Productivity does not come with surveillance by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      as in the long run, tolerating slackers demotivates the good, hard working employees who then have to pick up the slack afterwards.

      Even the slackers do some work, even if it's not as much as the more dedicated employees. Companies are supposed to manage this by rewarding the harder workers with bigger raises, and the slackers with no raises or paltry ones.

      But for some stupid reason, companies these days prefer not to give any raises at all, or only paltry ones (along with lame excuses about the economy), to everyone, regardless of performance. Then they wonder why their turnover is so high.

  19. A lot of the waste is a matter of opportunity by MikeRT · · Score: 0

    How many workers really need an Internet connection at their desktop? Probably not nearly as many as corporate America thinks. In many offices, I'd wager that having a few, very public Internet machines for work-related research would solve most of the problems without a loss of privacy on a daily basis to workers.

    For most workers, I bet it's not only a bad temptation on their desk, but not even necessary. A lot of offices would probably be better off if communications had to be done more infrequently and more thought-out instead of as fast as someone can write up an email and add recipients.

    1. Re:A lot of the waste is a matter of opportunity by Astatine · · Score: 1

      I have only an anecdote as a retort to this, it'll have to do. My point seems blindingly obvious, and I suspect my situation is not uncommon.

      My productivity would *plummet* without Internet access at work. I spend a lot of time looking up information on the web -- mostly online documentation. If I didn't have that connection, I would be constantly purchasing paper documentation and industry journals, and so would all my peers -- at great overall cost to the company, without even considering the additional cost of the delay incurred every time I needed to wait for a new publication to arrive. (Simply put, product releases would not come out on time.)

      In addition, no internet access would kill my ability to work remotely, because I need to be able to access my own systems at my desk remotely in order to be productive while out of the office.

      (Yes, I am a software developer.)

    2. Re:A lot of the waste is a matter of opportunity by darth+dickinson · · Score: 1

      OK, so people on the technical side of the business are an obvious exception. How about this:

      I work at a bank. On every one of our tellers' thin client desktops is an IE icon. Why again does a bank teller need internet access to do their job?

    3. Re:A lot of the waste is a matter of opportunity by yuhong · · Score: 1

      On the other hand, people do need something to do during the downtime

  20. It happens by onyxruby · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It happens, and if it's not done by IT monitoring just gets done elsewhere. The thing that baffles me is that people are surprised when it happens. All that being said they have much stronger laws on privacy in Europe than here in the US and you have to be aware of international laws for such things. You can rack up some pretty serious legal fines or jail time depending on what country your employee is working in, and even more if the data is brought back to the US (as we have horribly weak privacy laws). If your not careful you can readily have violations of HIPAA, SEC rules or SOX as well.

    All that being said, when monitoring inevitably comes up, your job is never to say 'no'. If you do that they will simply find someone else and you will have damaged your career. Your job is to ensure that if it has to happen it happens in full compliance with the letter of the law and any special rules that affect your organization. You'd be surprised at the dollar amounts fines start at, it can easily be six figures. After presenting all the legal requirements to perform a given piece of monitoring to your management, don't be surprised if they back off altogether.

    Monitoring has it's place, I try to encourage managers to use monitoring tools like a surgeons knife, not a chainsaw. I've known of employee backlash that can cause significant employee relations damages to organizations when tools were used overly broadly. And for crying out loud, if your at work, assume your being monitored and work accordingly. Whether you telecommute or otherwise, you never work in a vacuum.

  21. So, only "sick porn" as you define it is not ok? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So, only "sick porn" as you define it is not ok?

    Beastiality fine.
    Gay porn - fire the guy!

    Definitely the way any company IT Data Security rep should behave.

  22. Re:Please do by luis_a_espinal · · Score: 2, Insightful

    we pretend to work; they pretend to pay us

    Unless our paychecks (and the money we get when we cash them in) are a figment of our collective imagination, there is strong physical evidence that suggest they indeed do pay us. Maybe not in imaginary worlds, but certainly in the real one.

  23. It's not part of a Security persons Job. by bleh-of-the-huns · · Score: 1

    The security personnel are in charge of maintaining the health of the network and its related assets from a Security standpoint.

    The problem with monitoring employees, is that you find people enforcing their own beliefs and requirements with what they think is inappropriate. That results in various personnel interpreting the rules differently, which is unfair to the people being monitored.

    Also, its not our job to monitor what people do, its up to the management structure of those people to make sure they are being productive and doing their jobs. Only when what a person puts the network at risk, should security personnel ever get involved.

    --
    I came, I conquered, I coredumped
  24. It has been part of the banking/cashier industries by Silly+Man · · Score: 1

    Time is money. Information is money. Liability can mean loss of money.

    Cashiers in banks and many businesses are under constant observation, has been that way for decades.

    I am in the IT field, and I have been working with the assumption that whatever I am doing, 100% of it, it has been recorded. Although I am pretty sure (LOL, you never know!) that isn't happening. But I have always felt I should do nothing at work that I couldn't defend. I shouldn't be doing anything to be embarrassed over. I should be doing WORK anyway :)

    Now I agree, outside of work, shouldn't be observed. Although I view myself as a professional and I do feel I shouldn't do anything to embarrass my company on social sites. Those sites are public. Especially if I advertise I work for a company on a social site, I should do anything that would cause harm to my company.

    Don't get me wrong, if the company abuses this and questions every little mistake...it is time for me to find a new job.

  25. Re:Please do by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Then be prepared to follow a very boring monotonous time consuming "PROCESS" :) Which I wil have to fill out forms get manager approvals Fine by me. More money wasted.

  26. Summary is Redundant by Thumper_SVX · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I realize it's a matter of perspective... hell I've filled both roles so I know how it goes. However, the "generalist network admin" is monitoring employee actions and behaviours already. If they're not, then they're not doing a very good job. The perspective difference comes in the fact that most of the time said generalist is doing reactive monitoring, not proactive. As a result, the network admin typically does not realize that someone is attempting to compromise systems until the attempt is already occurring. There is a certain amount of proactive monitoring that the generalist does, but it tends to be limited.

    Proactive monitoring at the employees desktop or application level does sometimes tend to highlight trends in employee actions before they get anywhere in a compromise situation. That means that the good generalist with a wider scope will be able to predict much better that problems are or will be occurring and take appropriate actions.

    Now, the upper management trend of monitoring just to see exactly what their employees are doing... this I also think is fair so long as the rules are advertised and applied evenly. Remember, we are at work doing a job because we can and do. We are using company resources to do so, and we are paid for our work. I'll leave the conversation about whether we're paid enough to the individual, but I would contest that the best paycheck you're going to get from the job is about the same or less than everyone else in your field and location are demanding. Economics at work.

    There is a point at which the monitoring becomes too much. I know my web habits are monitored by my management but I feel I have nothing to hide. I can justify every site I visit and the length of time I spend on those sites because when I'm at work, I'm working. I save personal web surfing for breaks or lunchtime and my management understands there are a few personal websites I visit on a frequent basis. Like Slashdot. I have worked in a much stricter environment where they absolutely stated no personal web surfing at work, and that was also fine because I just found other things to do during break and lunch. Note that I was also far more likely to go out and take my 1 hour lunch because of this policy... my current work environment's policy of "personal stuff OK at lunchtime" means that typically I'm at my desk during lunch so if something comes up, I'm here.

    Maybe I'm just getting old, but I think the summary and the article are making generalizations that cannot be supported in the real world. Even when I started out as a junior network admin some 20 years ago give or take I understood the need and desire for monitoring employees. Since I also owned my own business for a while, I know what that desire is like but recognize that there's a balance to be found between "big brother" and "free reign".

  27. Re:Please do by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Informative

    > Unless our paychecks (and the money we get when we cash them in) are
    > a figment of our collective imagination,

    Well, actually... unless you get hard gold-backed cash in your hand then yes, your pay is imaginary.

    I refer the Honorable Gentleman to the concept of Money Creation

  28. Re:Please do by ArhcAngel · · Score: 3, Insightful

    we need a -1 *WHOOOSH* mod

    --
    "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K
  29. Re:Please do by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What the hell are you going to do with gold when the zombie apocalypse comes? Eat it?

    No, your currency needs to be backed by canned beans.

  30. But it's still usually a bad idea by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 4, Insightful

    When it comes to being employed, though, bosses and managers have always watched their employees to some degree -- that is, of course, the purpose of being the boss.

    No, it's not. The purpose of being a boss is to set direction for and co-ordinate those who work under you, so that the individual contributions all advance the overall plans.

    There is a certain type of person who does think that being the boss is primarily a power trip/disciplinary role. Such people usually live in middle management in large companies, because they are basically a waste of space. Small companies can't afford to have the dead weight, and large companies won't promote them to a level where they can do any serious damage but usually have too much bureaucracy to effectively detect and fire them.

    Trust is a prerequisite for any employment relationship. If you don't trust the people working for you to do what they are supposed to without routine monitoring, then you have bigger problems than whether the monitoring itself is justified. Indeed, one could make a reasonable argument that routine monitoring implies a breakdown in the fundamental trust relationship between employer and employee, which would itself be immediate grounds for a constructive dismissal lawsuit in this country.

    I can understand running automated tools to prevent, say, leakage of sensitive data. I can understand running automated tools to scan incoming data for viruses. This sort of thing is, sadly, reasonable for protection and sometimes necessary for legal/regulatory compliance in the modern world. However, it should rarely if ever disrupt an employee going about their business, and no-one else should be directly involved unless a problem is detected.

    I can understand general performance monitoring. Recognising staff who do well is valuable. Helping (not attacking) staff who underperform is valuable. Firing staff who underperform and cannot improve is, unfortunately, sometimes necessary. But none of this stuff requires intrusive, minute-by-minute monitoring and recording of the kind we're discussing here.

    The only time direct, intrusive monitoring is used should be when there is already a credible level of evidence of serious wrong-doing, and confronting the employee about that wrong-doing directly would prevent proper investigation. And in those circumstances, I tend to ask why the company is letting some next-line-up manager or IT/HR goon do the intrusive work. If it's that serious, the higher-ups should be calling the authorities, or at the very least passing a case file to internal security/legal staff who are required to handle the investigation with suitable discretion and a lot of accountability.

    --
    If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
    1. Re:But it's still usually a bad idea by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      The only time direct, intrusive monitoring is used should be when there is already a credible level of evidence of serious wrong-doing,

      I strongly disagree. Any time there's any evidence that you're not doing your job, "intrusive" monitoring is justified. It's your manager's job to know if you're doing your job. A lot of IT work is indistinguishable from fucking off without monitoring.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    2. Re:But it's still usually a bad idea by soliptic · · Score: 1

      The only time direct, intrusive monitoring is used should be when there is already a credible level of evidence of serious wrong-doing

      I strongly disagree.

      Do you really?

      Any time there's any evidence that you're not doing your job, "intrusive" monitoring is justified.

      Don't you think that in this context "not doing your job" and "serious wrong-doing" amount to the same thing?

      It sounds to me like you're saying the same thing. When evidence arises that you're not delivering on your responsibilities, monitoring is justified to find out wtf you are doing instead. (As opposed to monitoring everybody, in regardless of evidence they're not performing their duties.)

    3. Re:But it's still usually a bad idea by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 1

      I think we might be talking at cross-purposes, but...

      A lot of IT work is indistinguishable from fucking off without monitoring.

      Then what is the value of that work? It should be possible to tell whether someone is doing their job properly from the observable results they achieve. If their job has no observable benefits, why didn't you declare them redundant and save their salary already? (Note that "observable" does not mean "visible": invisible things such as keeping outage levels down due to effective maintenance and preemptive action are still observable, because if the employee stopped doing this you would see the negative effects.)

      If someone isn't getting the results they should be, then some action by management is necessary. Even then, I don't consider covert surveillance to be justified unless nothing more honest, such as a simple face-to-face discussion with the manager, would be sufficient. Employees are still people, and even in the work place, intrusive monitoring and invasions of privacy should only be used as a last resort when clearly justified.

      --
      If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
    4. Re:But it's still usually a bad idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There is a certain type of person who does think that being the boss is primarily a power trip/disciplinary role. Such people usually live in middle management in large companies, because they are basically a waste of space. Small companies can't afford to have the dead weight, and large companies won't promote them to a level where they can do any serious damage but usually have too much bureaucracy to effectively detect and fire them.

      These people exist in small companies, too. They're just good buddies with key decision makers that shield them from the hammer.

    5. Re:But it's still usually a bad idea by Dr+Damage+I · · Score: 1

      Sometimes the only evidence that someone is doing their job is negative evidence; they are preventing something from happening rather than causing something to happen. For example, if arrest rates are way down but crime reports are also way down, 1 of 2 things could be happening, the police are doing an awesome job and should be getting free blowjobs as a reward, or the police are slacking off, refusing to record reports of crime and probably getting free blowjobs as a reward. The only way to tell is closer monitoring of the situation to determine if access to free blowjobs should be increased or restricted.

      --
      "Cursed is he who rises early in the morning..." Isiah 5:11
  31. Great post by kancncnish · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    This is really great post. taller 4 idiots

  32. Some traditional solutions to monitoring... by digitalhermit · · Score: 1

    This is really a non-issue. Every so often we hear that there's a new problem or new approach to solving a problem. Names change but solutions remain the same. Whether it's grid technology or cloud or distributed computing or what have you, the "paradigm" may change but many times the technology is relatively unchanged.

    For monitoring employees the obvious solution, though perhaps no longer a "hot" tech, is to install SNMP on each employee. If privacy is a concern, ensure that SNMPDv3 is used. This solves not only the more general problem of availability, but the beauty of SNMP is that it can be customized for each employee. You can now easily report back on CPU (i.e., brain) utilization, idle percentage (coffee breaks), etc.. SNMP also allows a "write back" so that the monitoring station can send information back to the client/employee.

    I'm disappointed that this was not mentioned.

    1. Re:Some traditional solutions to monitoring... by Astatine · · Score: 1

      Interesting idea, but it wouldn't work. A machine can't work out what a human is doing (and thence whether or not he is "working") -- it doesn't have a brain.

      To pick on the CPU example: what constitutes "work", exactly? Not a 100% CPU graph: that probably just means that the employee in question has his feet up and is waiting for a build job to complete. Or has sussed out the system, and is running a low priority CPU eating process in order to fool the SNMP thingy into thinking he's "working" all the time. Regular small spikes, indicating typing, clicking, saving, etc? Can be faked just as easily.

      You could install a screen recorder -- the equivalent of CCTV for the desktop. That would require a lot more resources, and thence be more expensive. Fooling it would be harder, but still possible in various ways. (The how is left as an exercise for the reader. I conducted a security review of one once...)

      In my opinion (as a security specialist, not as a lawyer, mind you), none of this evidence would be admissable in a court of law: if a company fired someone based solely on evidence provided by things like this, the employee in question could sue for unfair dismissal with a solid chance of winning. Therefore, it has negative value to the company -- it's useful only for generating pointless monitoring work, and for harassing employees and making them feel unhappy.

    2. Re:Some traditional solutions to monitoring... by digitalhermit · · Score: 1

      Like all metrics, employee monitoring would be used as indicators to alert if there is indeed something unusual happening. Certainly many metrics are innocuous, but they allow the administrator to know to take a closer look. For example, if the alert triggers on "Dirty Pages" then it may indeed be as innocent as a Java overflow, but if the employee is continuously reading and dirtying pages, there's probably something worth investigating.

      I see your point, and it is valid, but respectfully disagree.

  33. Re:Please do by MatthewCCNA · · Score: 2, Informative

    What the hell are you going to do with gold when the zombie apocalypse comes?

    Bludgeon the zombies with the gold, classy and effective.

    --
    "He is so stupid. And now back to the wall!" Moe Szyslak
  34. Give the IT Tools to the HR People by RobotRunAmok · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The average, typical IT tech lacks the "touch" when it comes to employee monitoring. Give the monitoring tools, or reports from such, to the HR guys, whose ultimate responsibility this should be.

    Employee monitoring is in the position today where web page creation was 15-20 years ago. It was an "IT Function," because the tools were new and computer-y. Eight million "blink" tags and six hundred thousand animated "under construction" GIFs later, the tools made their way over to the Marketing and Creative Services people, and civilization lurched forward.

    Of course, there were always the techs who fancied themselves designers, from whose fingers the tools had to be pried away. I suspect there is more than that many techs who have gotten more than just a little bit comfortable wearing the Big Brother jackboots as well...

    1. Re:Give the IT Tools to the HR People by TehZzYzX · · Score: 1

      At my job, when we find something shady going on, we simply inform HR and give them the needed information. They take it from there, and we don't have to leave the dungeon. :)

  35. Wrong. by AnonymousClown · · Score: 1
    See, you're full of it. Because if there is illegal things on the computers, the police will confiscate them and they will start putting people in handcuffs.

    They could also accuse the company as being a front , such as here

    So again, you are wrong.

    --
    RIP America

    July 4, 1776 - September 11, 2001

  36. Spector...is great for the bosses by hesaigo999ca · · Score: 1

    I was given a task of trying to find a way to monitor pc usage time and what apps were being used, for how long, etc.
    I got my hands on spector 360 which is a great app, and the engineers there are very up to date with all the kernel hooks and such, so when you need a customized or specific task, they understand what you are about.

    I also was asked to set up certain reports to show what activity was going on (spector does this on its own)
    So a chore that would have been a full time job became my bosses passed time, all i had to do was maintain the installations
    and the rest was so user friendly ,my boss became his own policeman. Better the boss review any materials then any biased person at the company. He can also decide what recourse to take...in the end i found spector very good tool, except it always needed admin privileges to run, which i could not understand why they did that, but all in all very useful tool.

  37. You could take a more cynical view by swb · · Score: 1

    Or one of several cynical views.

    You could take the anti-monitoring view and just bury all but the most egregious stuff or whatever minimum is necessary to keep from looking like you're not doing your job, up to and including submarining the monitoring effort through "problems" with the monitoring setup that require constant upgrades, maintenance and activities that take you away from your "real" job and render monitoring semi-worthless. People you like could be quietly advised that their computer is being flagged for "performance problems" and they should avoid "non-work tasks".

    You could take the "info on my enemies" view and look at as a chance to dig dirt, keeping the juiciest info for yourself and passing along the trivial stuff, using the juicy info to damage enemies.

    The thing I think is weird is that you get exposed to all the pervs in the office. I found one guy who was highly respected, married with a young child, a church-type who was into some weird sex thing where he swapped half-nude self-shots with other guys dressed in expensive suits and jacking off. This guy made six-figure coin and there was always a remote temptation to confront him with his pix and collect a second, cash-only income less his wife and pastor get in on the picture collection.

    But I decided extortion wasn't my thing and figured anyone driven by that kind of sex craving and keeping up that facade was taking all the punishment he needed.

  38. management- be careful what you ask for... by xmundt · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Greetings and Salutations....
              A few years ago, one my my clients asked me to generate lists of the websites their employees had been on, and, how long they had spent on the sites. Since I run an in-house DNS server, not that hard to get. Well, I ran the reports for a few months, then, the project was quietly dropped. Why? It turned out that the only folks that spent significant amounts of time on porn sites and other non-business sites were the President of the company (who had ordered the reports) and his wife, the CFO of the company.
    And THEY were burning a LOT of time on non-business related entertainment and shopping!
                What was really amusing to me about this was that these two folks had the attitude that they were the only ones doing anything positive for the company, and, the employees were the enemy - and were spending all their time trying to steal time and resources away from the company, cutting down on profit margin!
                Regards
                Dave Mundt

    --
    YAB - http://blog.beemandave.com/
    1. Re:management- be careful what you ask for... by mxh83 · · Score: 1

      Jeez dude, you should be posting that as Anonymous..

  39. Total BS by KingSkippus · · Score: 5, Insightful

    You know, I'm SO sick of the total bullshit line of reasoning that people like you keep giving for gross violations of our privacy, not to mention keeping people like me from doing my job.

    Okay, so your company has a policy of not allowing me to browse porn on the Internet, woohoo. Why is it that you jump to the conclusion that the only way to make sure this doesn't happen is to monitor every single web site that I browse? Why can't you just have a policy of, hey, if management has some reason to think that KingSkippus might be up to something, then look for something fishy?

    Ponder this. I'm pretty sure that my company also wouldn't like me browsing porn magazines at work. They'd probably get quite irate if, in the middle of the day, I pulled a Hustler out and started flipping through those oh-so-sweet pages. So is the only answer now to have security guards posted at every door to pore through all of my possessions as I come and go, making sure that I have no porn in my physical possessions? I also carry a 4 GB USB drive everywhere I go with some basic troubleshooting tools and electronic copies of documents that I like to have on me at all times. Every time I enter the building, should I be strip searched and, when such a thing is found, every file inspected to make sure that I don't have dirty pictures on it?

    No, the whole "We must monitor EVERYTHING!" is just a BS policy made because people like you get off on your power trip.

    Legally, it's really simple. You create a policy that says that if you're caught browsing porn on the Internet, you get fired. Managers back it up with action by, when people are caught browsing porn, they fire the person who was doing it. There's no need for stupid ass content filters, treating everyone like they're 13 year olds, to ensure this policy, any more than there's a need for strip searches or searches of all physicial possessions. If a company gets sued--and make no mistake, they will get sued no matter what policy they have--they show the judge the policy and their record of upholding it, and that's that.

    I defy you to actually cite these throngs of "all sorts of lawsuits from sexual harrassment to violation of ethics laws," especially the ones where the court found a company liable because they didn't have a content filter in place with people like you watching everything everyone is doing instead of enforcing the policy when violations were reasonably found Big Brother-style. As long as we're talking anecdotally, you know who I've heard does the most browsing of porn on the Internet? High-level management. True story: at the company where I work, most of the executives have been given explicit exemption from our content filters. As for the "ethics laws" joke, discover the wonderful world of "situational ethics" and then explain to how you're protecting a company that deliberately puts a clause that says, "From time to time, the firm may waive certain provisions of this Code" in its Code.

    The truth of the matter is that my company spends WAY more on content filters and salaries for people to set them up and monitor them, not to mention the cost to the business when they break and the Internet becomes completely unavailable, than it would on bogus lawsuits that would have been brought anyway. The whole "you need content filtering to protect you" is a scam perpetrated by content filtering companies and people like you who would probably lose your job if management figured out the truth and actually cared. (And, more importantly, did their job of dealing with these issues instead of foisting them on the IT group.)

    Back in the mid-90s, my boss read an article that explained about how login scripts could be used on Windows 3.11 to do things like delete Solitaire and Minesweeper and replace the desktop background with a forced company standard. The next thing I

    1. Re:Total BS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Exactly. The Security guys use the "outside" connection the most. Secretly they pray they find something "good" who wouldnt.

    2. Re:Total BS by ronocdh · · Score: 1
      From the OP:

      no file downloads, no porn, no webmail etc. We monitor usage in co-ordination with blocking software

      I would never work for such a company. It blows my mind how anyone would. It must be that because of all the click-through EULAs, we're conditioned to dismiss any legal stipulations and just figure, "Eh, it'll probably never happen to me." And largely, that is true. (I'm speaking mostly of Americans when I reference this dismissive attitude.)

      I see all the time driving 70 MPH on the 55 MPH-speed limit Interstate, or driving through red lights. Who watches the watchers? Oh yeah, that would be nobody. Oh, don't worry though, I'm sure they're browsing "responsibly" and don't need watching.

      Well, I do work as a sysadmin, so naturally I fall into that category. But I sure as hell haven't ever policed anyone for checking their Gmail, for Christ's sake. The only time I've ever had to confront anyone about porn usage was in a computer lab, so it was not staff perpetrating. What a staff member does in their office is none of my damn business. It's up to their supervisor to make sure that they remain productive, and I doubt anyone cares if they eat peanut butter sandwiches, or listen to Wagner, or watch goat sex on YouTube while they maintain their output.

    3. Re:Total BS by Belial6 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      You are correct. The one piece you missed is that the monitoring actually INCREASES liability to the company. By putting up filters and monitoring employees, the company is declaring that it is their responsibility to find out and stop employees from browsing porn. They are also claiming that they have the ability to stop employees from browsing porn. This INCREASES their liability.

    4. Re:Total BS by AustinSlacker · · Score: 1

      Brilliant! Every person in every company that has the authority to make such decisions should read this post. Maybe they would think twice about instituting such draconian IT policies as they really don’t address the underlying problem of employee productivity. I can waste just as much time playing Ant Buster as I can surfing pron sites. Checking my GMail account is blocked? No problem. I'll just set up auto-forward on my GMail account to go to my company account. I get to see my mail anyway. Nor do they stop anyone from exposing the company to lawsuits that might come about as a result of someone surfing to a site that someone else would find objectionable. I guarantee that there are articles posted on CNN.com (or most any “news” site) that show the latest graphic photos of the latest victims of the latest car bomb somewhere or the latest bikini photos of some starlet wannabe. Just because it is not PMITA pron doesn’t mean that it can’t become grounds for a juicy lawsuit, because someone wants a big fat check. Please do not preach the “we must protect the company because you stupid users will destroy us” line to me. I worked in the IT department and I know just how badly the watchers need watching.

    5. Re:Total BS by MontyApollo · · Score: 1

      I agree with most of your post (and maybe it is just because I don't care for solitaire), but I do have a pet peeve with solitaire. I find it annoying when I run across employees who have almost full internet access (gambling filtered and probably porn) sitting there playing solitaire.

      It just seems like you could be doing something more interesting or productive for your personal life (e.g. reading a blog that you would otherwise spend your free time at home reading, reading the news, paying bills, etc...)

      Maybe I just feel that I have a shortage of time to do stuff that I like to do, so if I am going to steal some extra time from work I want it to be worthwhile or enjoyable. I play games at home, but not solitaire.

    6. Re:Total BS by Culture20 · · Score: 1

      Ponder this. I'm pretty sure that my company also wouldn't like me browsing porn magazines at work. They'd probably get quite irate if, in the middle of the day, I pulled a Hustler out and started flipping through those oh-so-sweet pages. So is the only answer now to have security guards posted at every door to pore through all of my possessions as I come and go, making sure that I have no porn in my physical possessions?

      IT Security Policies regarding porn sites have nothing to do with the content. Maybe Legal has a problem with it, but Information Security is more worried about what comes with those sites, and how difficult they are to blacklist (and sometimes whitelisted sites get purchased and re-purposed):
      Porn Sites More Infected Than Thought http://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=10/06/12/1712223
      Over a Third of the Internet Is Pornographic http://idle.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=10/06/16/1722258

    7. Re:Total BS by Nite_Hawk · · Score: 1

      Absolutely fantastic post.

      I was a sysadmin in a past life and know/work with a number of others. I see this kind of thing all the time even amongst those who are free software advocates. It seems no matter who you are, it takes significant effort to give up power once you've attained it. It's really unfortunate and I don't have a good answer for how to change it. A lot of it seems to be tied up in hard feelings between individuals or groups and not being willing to de-escalate the control war. Sadly innocent people get caught in the middle and are either forced to take sides or end up in a no-mans land between the warring factions.

      Ultimately projects end up failing because no one was willing to give up control and/or work together to make things succeed. Maintaining the fiefdoms was more important than actually being successful.

    8. Re:Total BS by DaMattster · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Another true story. At my company, I sit close to the guys who monitor the content filters. They have connections to their computers outside the proxies, directly on the Internet. I see them all the time accessing their personal Gmail accounts, which is blatantly against the company's security policy. It's a bit like the police officers I see all the time driving 70 MPH on the 55 MPH-speed limit Interstate, or driving through red lights. Who watches the watchers? Oh yeah, that would be nobody. Oh, don't worry though, I'm sure they're browsing "responsibly" and don't need watching.

      This happens daily at our company. In fact, I had a manager approach me and ask if she could have the same tool that I use for remote access to assist users and fix things. I flat out told her "no." She sniffed and walked away. The hubris of corporate America is astounding. Management mentality is still very much caught in "industrial revolution" mode of thinking where employees need constant micromanaging. Has it occured to anyone, that human beings hate micromanagement? Micromanagement is a moral destroyer and encourages rank and file employees to be mindless automatons. I often wonder why someone wants to become a manager. I think it is to gain more freedom to make decisions so they are less of an automaton. Many managers also forget from whence they came.

    9. Re:Total BS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Basically, because it is relatively easy to do, Internet access filtering/monitoring is considered the norm and any company not doing it would be found, legally, to be negligent if something happens. So, they really have little choice. Of course, don't let me stop you from railing away...

    10. Re:Total BS by Skal+Tura · · Score: 1

      parent can't be modded high enough. should be +10 insightful.

      Also, if a company can't trust an employee enough to be productive with normal motivation measures without invading privacy, that person shouldn't be hired in the first place. Secondly, no person can be 100% productive 100% of the time, our bodies nor our brains work like that. If you need 100% productivity, 100% of the time, with 100% dedication to the company, you get an robot. Oh wait, yeah right, there's no AI intellect enough for 90% of jobs to replace humans.

      Respect the employee, and the employee shall respect the employer. Unless the employee is a total ass, in which case he should be fired or not hired in the first place.

    11. Re:Total BS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Very well said. Thank you!

    12. Re:Total BS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You know, I'm SO sick of the Oh, don't worry though, I'm sure they're browsing "responsibly" and don't need watching.

      Porn sites are about as clean as a Tijuana crack whore. I'm tired of having to remove everything that gets past our Symantec scanners, and I sure as shit don't need more work because someone decided to spend most of his working day browsing porn sites and infecting his workstation. It's not just about lawsuits or morality, it's also a huge security and productivity issue.

    13. Re:Total BS by babywhiz · · Score: 1
      The truth of the matter is that there are companies that can get in trouble for lax rules/attitudes about monitoring....

      Doe v. XYC Corp. New Jersey Appellate Division, No. A-2909-04T2, 12/27/05

      Some places, you can even go to jail for not reporting it:

      I'm not going to jail for people who can't check their libido at the door.

    14. Re:Total BS by IICV · · Score: 1

      Micromanagement is a moral destroyer and encourages rank and file employees to be mindless automatons.

      A typo, but an apt one. You clearly meant "morale", as in "how employees feel about work"; however, by leaving off that last letter, you turned it into "moral" as in "the ethical capacity of the managers".

      Micromanagement is absolute power, and it corrupts absolutely.

    15. Re:Total BS by Just+Some+Guy · · Score: 1

      Legally, it's really simple. You create a policy that says that if you're caught browsing porn on the Internet, you get fired. Managers back it up with action by, when people are caught browsing porn, they fire the person who was doing it.

      And that's the key: if you catch someone viewing porn. If someone sneaks a peak at a Google image search for ${cute actress du jour}, and no one sees it and it doesn't interrupt their work, then who cares? I don't get the powertripping that rationalizes actively watching every employee like a hawk in case they see an occasional boob over their lunch break.

      And don't bring up the hypothetical bogeyman of sexual harassment lawsuits. If an employee is so discreet and rare with their booblooking that you can only catch them with monitoring software, then they wouldn't be exposing you to legal action in the first place. And if they do, then you have the policy manual prohibiting porn viewing and a justifiably quick firing to fall back on.

      --
      Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
    16. Re:Total BS by DaMattster · · Score: 1

      Micromanagement is a moral destroyer and encourages rank and file employees to be mindless automatons.

      A typo, but an apt one. You clearly meant "morale", as in "how employees feel about work"; however, by leaving off that last letter, you turned it into "moral" as in "the ethical capacity of the managers".

      Micromanagement is absolute power, and it corrupts absolutely.

      Thank you for pointing this out. I should have done better spell checking.

    17. Re:Total BS by hawkingradiation · · Score: 1

      burn

      --
      Society use your Sciences
    18. Re:Total BS by itjay2000 · · Score: 1

      On a company PC, you have no rights.

  40. Get the *real* security to do it. by 6Yankee · · Score: 4, Funny

    At my last place, I'd often work a bit of overtime in the evenings, and I came to know the security guards quite well. I had to walk past the block they were based in, so I'd always pop in and say hello (and usually ended up chatting for an hour or more).

    By contrast, there was some shiny-suit type in that same building who, if he even acknowledged the guard's existence, would give him (and me) a filthy look and keep walking. Naturally, one guard started wondering what use this guy was... and filmed him through the window, from the CCTV camera on the opposite building. For an hour. On overtime. Surfing porn. I didn't see Shiny-Suit Guy after that.

    Moral: if you're going to misbehave at work, keep Security sweet :)

    1. Re:Get the *real* security to do it. by dkleinsc · · Score: 4, Informative

      After becoming pals with the security guard at my building, the guard related to me a moment when she was watching the parking garage cam, and noticed that the director of marketing was busy going Lewinsky on a member (pun thoroughly intended) of the board of directors. Certainly it explained how she got the job, since skill in marketing clearly had nothing to do with it.

      If you want to know what is actually going on in a company, the 3 groups of people you need access to are the admins (who can watch people's computer use), the security guards (who can watch people's physical activities), and the bookkeepers (who know where the money and therefor the power is going).

      --
      I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
    2. Re:Get the *real* security to do it. by DaMattster · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Always become pals with the security and even the cleaners. Don't treat them as the help, treat them the way you would want to be treated. It is amazing what kind of insight they can provide. A retired federal special agent once told me that you can learn something from anyone and he was so right. A security guard overheard two people plotting a way to get rid of me. He told me the circumstance so I looked through my web logs for the sites that these ass clowns went to, had a neat little report assembled, and dropped it off at HR the next morning. At nine o'clock the next morning, the two stooges were called into the HR office and two hours later the two stooges were sent packing absolutely blind-sided. Moral: be honest, don't be devious, and most of all .... appreciate the jobs that your security and custodial folks do as they are real jobs and necessary.

    3. Re:Get the *real* security to do it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Moral: ... don't be devious

      You certainly weren't, the way you quietly got rid of people to save your job!

    4. Re:Get the *real* security to do it. by DaMattster · · Score: 1

      Moral: ... don't be devious

      You certainly weren't, the way you quietly got rid of people to save your job!

      I consider someone to be devious that does this day in and day out. I do not but when backed into a corner, like anyone, I fight.

    5. Re:Get the *real* security to do it. by roskakori · · Score: 1

      If you want to know what is actually going on in a company, the 3 groups of people you need access to are the admins (who can watch people's computer use), the security guards (who can watch people's physical activities), and the bookkeepers (who know where the money and therefor the power is going).

      In order to gain all this information, the only group of people you need access to are the secretaries.

    6. Re:Get the *real* security to do it. by bitflip · · Score: 1

      Not just computer admins - your general admins (secretaries, receptionists, etc.) know everything that is going on.

  41. This is the anti-Unix approach by davecb · · Score: 1, Offtopic

    To quote Doug Gwyn, "UNIX was not designed to stop its users from doing stupid things, as that would also stop them from doing clever things."

    In Unix, one of the design principle is that you can do anything, even something insecure and stupid, but we can always find out what you did and whack you over the head.

    Auditing what your users do so you can diagnose an error later is roughly O(n) with the number of errors. Predicting what users should be allowed to do and granting them permissions is maybe O(n^2) or worse with the number of things allowed. It works, but only for small numbers of allowed things. Watching everything users do doesn't scale at all: worst case, you could need as many sysadmins as users, O(n) with number of users.

    --dave

    --
    davecb@spamcop.net
  42. AT&T doesn't let you do anything by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    AT&T doesn't even let you see the web except for a few whitelisted sites.

    Their filter allowed *.org (like slashdot.org) and a few comic sites, so while there was downtime, a few employees would try to find something they could read.

    Unfortunately, for the management of the day, this was unacceptable because it was "wasting bandwidth"

    See, that I have to bone to pick... If you are not going to provide the employee with something to do during downtime, this behavior happens and is preferable to SNOOPING AROUND the company systems. So after being warned about that stupidity, I instead started reading all sorts of stuff management had in "readable to everyone" places using the company's own search engine.

    So instead of reading about what calvin and hobbes might be doing, I instead read about potentially damaging internal policy that the management couldn't tell if I was reading it or internal policies.

    Gee thanks.

    This same call center also prohibited people bringing in books.

  43. Political websites by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It isn't just pornography that is blocked. What surprised me about the web-filtering at my work place was blocking of political sites of the far right, like The Occidental Observer Blog, The Occidental Quarterly Online, and Vdare.

    Vdare isn't even that extreme. They are pretty mild in their criticism of Jewish power. Their main focus is on immigration and its harmfulness to our country.

    1. Re:Political websites by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      IMHO, immigration is one of those things where a little is really good, and a lot is really bad. It's like eating certain vitamins and minerals: a little bit keeps you really healthy, but if you overdose, it'll make you really sick and could even kill you. Copper, for instance, is something you need in a minutely tiny quantity, but too much is poisonous. Same goes for iron: too little and you're anemic, too much and you get iron overload disorder.

      Here's some others:
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dietary_mineral

      With a little immigration, you help avoid stagnation, get fresh ideas, "cross-pollination" from other cultures, etc. With too much immigration, the existing population gets overrun or displaced and you end up with strife. For a good example of too much immigration, look at what happened to the Native Americans: they didn't control their border, and it didn't turn out very well for them.

  44. The two sides by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Basically, if you like this sort of thing, you are a sociopath in serious need of a boot party. If you don't, you are a reasonably well-adjusted adult.

  45. Well I consider myself lucky and blessed then... by mario_grgic · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Because my work does not mind if we browse internet, access web mail, download/upload files, install software (we are all administrators on our computers), listen to online radio, watch the word cup etc. and we also all have VPN access to our computers from anywhere to do some work in crazy times of day if we feel so inclined.

    They treat us as well paid professionals and expect results from us. We are supposed to deliver on agreed deadlines and we usually do. So, if I read Slashdot from time to time, check the news or chat to my wife here and there for a few minutes, and it does not affect my productivity (i.e. I'm not doing my job to the standard or above expected of me in this company) then no one sees it as a problem.

    It's only in rare instances when people don't perform satisfactorily that questions arise how are they spending their time and what is wrong in general (but still no one monitors them even then).

    I find this freedom really helps with the moral of the people, the sense of trust in you as individual it provides, and it liberates you to be creative. If you have an issue with this much freedom and could not control yourself and spend ALL your time online playing games and looking at porn, then you probably should be monitored and you most likely would not get though our interview process anyway.

    As a matter of fact I don't think I could work for a company that does not treat me as a responsible adult and a professional. Imagine if hospitals monitored their doctors to make sure they are not checking personal email or make sure they are not telling nebulous lies to their patients? It's kind of the same.

    --
    As the island of our knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance.
  46. Security people... by KingSkippus · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Sorry for the double post, but I did want to say a few more important things.

    I don't mean to imply that all IT security people are on power trips. I know a lot of them, and my job has me working with them a lot. Most are fine, upstanding, ethical people. A lot don't like doing what they are mandated to do by their corporate overlords. Most only do so as much as they have to.

    But they're a bit like cops, as most cops are fine, upstanding, ethical people. Still, there are a few who really get off on how much access and control they have, and they use it every chance they get. They're the ones who like to brag to me, "Watch how I can access this random Schmo's desktop. See? They don't even know I'm doing it!"

    I'm also not pretending like there should be zero interference with the network. I'm painfully aware of the problems that viruses, trojans, worms, phishing scams, etc. pose. The only reason I would ever advocate having a content filter is for that purpose only, blocking sites that are literally dangerous to be accessing, stuff like malware sites. I'm also for virus scanning, as that's a necessary evil as some people still do stupid things and not 100% of security threats can be caught.

    What I object to, though, is this philosophy that we have to protect companies from people wasting valuable time or productivity. That's not IT's job, that's management's job. If I want to check my e-mail from work, there's no reason why I shouldn't be able to check my damn e-mail. I also carry a smart phone and an iPad, so you really can't keep from from checking my e-mail anyway. (Or for that matter, goofing off with the many, many games that are available to me. Or for that matter, even--gasp!--browsing porn!)

    I'm just sick of companies spending stupid amounts of money to save pennies in productivity and grossly violate people's reasonable expectation of privacy. It's not right, and given the GP's defense of such policies, it sounds like he has already drunk the corporate kool-aid.

    1. Re:Security people... by COMON$ · · Score: 1

      Now this I agree with wholeheartedly.

      --
      CS: It is all sink or swim...oh and did I mention there are sharks in that water?
    2. Re:Security people... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      First off, I agree using technology to enforce HR policy is a waste of time. However, filtering the internet is not always about enforcing policy.

      We provide a web based application to our users, many of which are in-house, but located in a distant office call center. Lets say call center folks decide to play an internet based streaming radio station (yes, instead of a radio, MP3 player, etc). Now some of these folks instead decide to entertain themselves on YouTube or other streaming video site. maybe some others decide to download the latest Quake demo on the company network because he doesn't have broadband at home, more will download the latest viral video/flash game from their gmail account.

      Real soon all these leeches start to impact the web based application's performance, ironically driving even more people to use the bandwidth to entertain themselves while the application loads.

      Yes we can (and have) tracked down offenders and fired them. Or, we can spend a some money and just prevent them from doing so in the first place, akin to locking the doors of your car rather than procescuting evey idiot who tries to steal an unlocked car with teh keys in the front seat. We know people can get around it, but there's also a lot more satisfaction firing someone who went to a lot of trouble to defeat the porn filters than making an example every 3 months of the idiot who thought browsing porn on his computer was OK because he could.

      Fun fact - i used to work for a company that dealt with a lot of porn (literally these guys http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/10/29/); we had to fire someone who set their computer to a porn theme. Why? because there's a difference between porn you have to look at (its my job), and decorating your office with porn.

    3. Re:Security people... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

      Sorry for the double post, but I did want to say a few more important things.

      I'd like 3 minutes of my life back, please. I read what you wrote (quite carefully), but you didn't have anything important to say. Just a lot of whingeing about your rights while at work, for which your employer pays you. The employer who has a right to check that you're actually working, and not endangering the company's interests.
       
      (sigh) Grow up.

    4. Re:Security people... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There is no doubt that it was long winded, but the OP did have something to say:

      the people who waste an hour playing Solitaire will simply find a way to waste an hour doing something else once [Solitaire is] gone

      it's really management's responsibility to deal with issues of bad time management, not [IT's]

      forcing such a draconian policy on everyone would be the functional equivalent of making them take down all of their family pictures and desk toys from their cubicles because "desks are company property."

    5. Re:Security people... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'd like 1 minute of my life back, please. Your post was succinct, but added nothing more than the OP. Just an authoritarian's justification for ignoring the mutual respect that ensures a functional work environment.

    6. Re:Security people... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      no, YOU grow up! doodie-breath!

  47. Listen to the BOFH by SnugglesTheBear · · Score: 2, Funny

    If the BOFH has taught the IT world anything, it's to always monitor your co-workers. This provides potential means for extortion if there would ever be talk about you being fired or replaced as well as an easy and effective way to climb to the top at startling speeds.

    --
    Would you hug a bear?
    1. Re:Listen to the BOFH by DaMattster · · Score: 1

      If the BOFH has taught the IT world anything, it's to always monitor your co-workers. This provides potential means for extortion if there would ever be talk about you being fired or replaced as well as an easy and effective way to climb to the top at startling speeds.

      What goes around, comes around. I've seen people behave this way climb a long way over a short period only to fall faster and harder. It is a miserable and paranoid experience.

    2. Re:Listen to the BOFH by SnugglesTheBear · · Score: 1

      THE BOFH NEVER FALLS!

      --
      Would you hug a bear?
  48. Dude, get a grip! by danaris · · Score: 3, Insightful

    No, the whole "We must monitor EVERYTHING!" is just a BS policy made because people like you get off on your power trip.

    For some? Sure. There are always going to be petty bureaucrats who enjoy power-trips.

    But that's hardly the only reason for that type of policy. Here are a few I know of off the top of my head:

    • 1. The company's connection is the company's, not yours. They have a right to prevent its use for non-work purposes if they choose to do so. (Although attempting to do so entirely is absurdly draconian, at least if you're not subject to DoD-type restrictions.)
    • 2. It's very simple to monitor the entirety of your internet traffic, and, depending on how dedicated you want to be to it (and how good your automated systems are) doesn't necessarily take a full-time person just to handle it. It's certainly much easier than monitoring what you bring into the building with you, or what you have on your thumb drive (whether that thumb drive is personal or company property...).
    • 3. It's surprisingly difficult to monitor less than the entirety of your internet traffic, at least without complicated automated systems to simply discard any packets or requests that you're not interested in.
    • 4. Monitoring the entirety of the internet traffic in and out, or even blocking known bad sites, in no way gets in the way of those employees just trying to do their jobs. Yes, there are privacy concerns...but see point 1. And yes, whitelisting only known good sites can certainly get in the way of employees trying to do their jobs, particularly the more technical ones. This is why, except in specific situations where security is a higher priority than productivity, I wouldn't recommend whitelisting.

    As you may be able to tell, I have been responsible for setting up some such monitoring at my company in the past (though it has since fallen into disuse, largely because we laid off 3/4 of the employees...). Though I have no problem with a certain amount of incidental web browsing, there were people who were spending essentially the entire day streaming video (which clobbers our relatively small pipe), browsing MySpace, or playing Flash games. And yes, a couple who would browse porn. (And then there were the one or two who would download games to install onto their computers which turned out to be viruses. So we'd have to clean their computers and explain that that was bad. And then they'd go and install the same bloody virus-ridden game. Again.) It's one thing to poke around a little—or post on Slashdot—but when there's urgent business that needs doing, and it's not happening because you're goofing off...I mean, yeah, that's an issue for HR, eventually, but it seems to me that it is IT's responsibility to at least take basic, reasonable steps to see that those specific temptations are not available.

    Dan Aris

    --
    Fun. Free. Online. RPG. BattleMaster.
    1. Re:Dude, get a grip! by nametaken · · Score: 1

      My company does this sanely, in that they want me to be able to tell them what they want to know about everyones traffic if I'm asked for it. But everyone understands that I'm not actually reviewing their browsing histories and reporting upwards on a regular basis and I have no voyeuristic tendencies. The company knows they can trust me not to be intrusive until there's a real business case for it. The logs run all the time and they're just locked down so nobody can see them but me, unless I've been asked to pull a report. I do occasionally look at uncorrelated lists of biggest bandwidth consuming websites, etc.

      As with most places I've worked, the logs exist to confirm suspicions, and they invariably back up what management already knows. If they walk past the same person f'ing around on facebook three times in one day, chances are good they're spending way too much time on BS personal stuff. Even then, they only ask to see logs if that same person isn't doing their job and complains that their workload is too overwhelming.

      In some cases (at other co's I've worked for) web and phone usage were only used as supporting material when someone was about to be canned anyway.

    2. Re:Dude, get a grip! by c0mpliant · · Score: 1

      I can tell that you previously worked in IT Security because you're the only one who actually considered things beyond your immediate point of view.

      First off, to all of you who claim I am on a power trip, this is simply not the case. I don't want to do this job. I, in fact, hate this aspect of my job. I do it because it is my job and because I understand the risks the company is exposed to which most people are ignorant to. I'm an IT security professional, not some egocentric maniac. I don't abuse my position, I don't bypass the content blocking. I do my job and I do it professionally.

      Second, I'm not saying that we have a zero tolerance to anything non-work related, but what I do say is that where the companies interests are threatened, we do actively block the content and if someone does circumnavigate the block, we monitor usage to ensure that they're not.

      Third, in relation to webmail, we block this not to stop you emailing your friends, we do this to ensure that our data STAYS on our network within our control. We want to ensure that your not stealing large quantities of data or leaking it accidentally by sending it unencrypted across non secure channels. Our internal email solution provides this security. You can bring in your USB drives all you want but our USB restricted thin clients prevent you from uploading/downloading anything to/or from the network for the same reasons.

      What many people in these comments fail to realise is that there are reasons for security policies beyond what you initially think is the reason for it.

      Yes I can see how these measures may appear (and in some cases actually be draconian) but there are solid reasons behind them and perhaps you wouldn't abuse your webmail access, or your USB access or any of the other form of access that we have restricted, there are people who would. The threat of Employee Fraud is massive. IT Security needs to be keenly aware of this and needs to take steps to prevent it.

      --
      There is no -1 disagree
    3. Re:Dude, get a grip! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The biggest reason we do it is because porn and other-types of sites often have malware or viruses. If we don't do it, there will be (like there was before we started) dozens of owned computers on our network with not only porn, but all sorts of cracked software, key loggers, and who knows what else. It's not just about porn.

    4. Re:Dude, get a grip! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's very simple to monitor the entirety of your internet traffic

      I'm interested in your SSL and SSH cracking software.

    5. Re:Dude, get a grip! by DrgnDancer · · Score: 1

      1. The company's connection is the company's, not yours. They have a right to prevent its use for non-work purposes if they choose to do so. (Although attempting to do so entirely is absurdly draconian, at least if you're not subject to DoD-type restrictions.)

      Speaking as someone who works under DoD-type restrictions, some of what GP advocates is draconian far beyond the DoD, at least unclassified DoD resources. I'm quite allowed to access web-mail and social networking sites on my DoD owned computer. I'm doing so right now in fact. Of course classified systems are a different matter, but those aren't connected to the Internet at all.

      --
      I don't need a million points of light, just two points of multi-mode fiber and a 10 Gig-E router.
    6. Re:Dude, get a grip! by danaris · · Score: 1

      Not sure whether you intended to reply to me or to the guy I was replying to, but I haven't actually ever been officially in "IT Security"; I'm just the sole full-time IT guy at the small insurance company where I work. Which means that part of what I'm responsible for is, of course, IT security, but it's hardly my field.

      Dan Aris

      --
      Fun. Free. Online. RPG. BattleMaster.
    7. Re:Dude, get a grip! by toddestan · · Score: 1

      It's also very easy to block encrypted traffic you know.

    8. Re:Dude, get a grip! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      professional

      When you use that word you instantly make clear that you're not.

      Real professionals prove themselves by the application of their real world skills, not self-identifying generic labels.

      The threat of Employee Fraud is massive.

      Nope, moderate. And has little to do with the policies you've just described. You do realize that treating employees like the enemy is a good way to encourage enemy-like behavior?

  49. Re:Please do by Tarsir · · Score: 1
    I think people making "WHOOOOSH" replies should have the courtesy to point out the joke. We're all here to learn, right?

    We pretend to work, they pretend to pay us

    Is an old expression from Soviet Russia

  50. Not new, but certainly different nowadays by BenEnglishAtHome · · Score: 1

    Sysadmins should not be asked to take on the responsibility of watching employees; that is a manager's responsibility.

    I disagree. It's the function of a security professional. It's the function of someone who has no axe to grind with the employee, who can be impartial, and who, at best, moves in an entirely different world from the employee. Las Vegas casino security employees don't, for example, fraternize with the frontline employees.

    Monitoring needs to be fair for a whole bunch of reasons that should be obvious and don't bear wasting time on in this post. Fairness, however, is difficult to achieve when the person doing the monitoring is known to or works with the employee.

    If the manager is not technically competent to monitor computer use, then there is a question of why that person is managing people who use computers for their work -- the manager should be competent with the equipment.

    Again, I disagree, and not just with the notion that the manager is doing the monitoring. Fair monitoring requires a statistically valid sample of data (something most managers can't figure out) to be reviewed by someone who doesn't know anything about the employee (again, removing managers from consideration) and this is best done with some rather esoteric sampling and reviewing tools. Asking a manager to learn such tools is a silly distraction from their core duties.

    If the monitoring function turns up something interesting, then and only then should managers become involved. At that point, managers consult with monitors and provide their feedback on whether the situation is a harmless part of the job, worth more extensive monitoring, or cause for action. Making judgements like that is what managers do; not staring at a terminal trying to decide if a sample of web pages accessed is part of their employees valid duties.

    Of course, managers also monitor job performance. If an employee is performing suboptimally and the manager suspects computer misuse, then that manager should be able to drop a note to the security function and request heightened monitoring. Actually *doing* the monitoring, however, should still remain a task done by someone outside the regular work-process loop.

  51. As a one-person IT department by HikingStick · · Score: 1

    I can see this one from both sides. On the one hand, I work for a privately-owned mid-sized manufacturing firm that wants to retain its familial feel and allows for limited, periodic personal use of network resources. Some members of management here want me to install web monitoring software to keep tabs on their direct reports' usage habits, but I've resisted because there's no one here to take on the monitoring.

    At the same time, I lose many hours each week troubleshooting issues caused by users who misuse their network access, whether intentionally or through ignorance. I have one user who regularly chokes our Internet connection (an aDSL connection) because he floods our mail server with forwarded crap, often sending multiple messages that are each 5Mb or larger to dozens of recipients. He reports directly to the president, who is a primary source of many of his forwarded messages. Even though one of the president's biggest pet peeves is when our Internet connection is slow, his own actions contribute to the problem.

    Then there are the Facebook-aholics, who bring in more than their share of malware. I've had to clean the head of HR's PC from the Zwinky Toolbar, Smilely Central, and countless other trojans over the past few months. Infections returned mere days after deploying a new machine, demonstrating that the user was not abiding by our computer use and network security policies, and was ignoring all of the training I provided regarding the sourse of such infections.

    Returning to the other side, being the only one here in the IT function means that everone knows who is doing the monitoring and reporting things to management. When you're trying to build a relationship with your customers (in this case, other staff) based on trust, it's much harder to do when employees view you as a snitch who they perceive to be out to get them in trouble. It's also ulcer-inducing stuff. I need to walk into the president's office in a few minutes and talk to him about his direct report, the one who keeps forwarding junk through our servers. Of course, in doing so, I'll also be (directly or indirectly) pointing the finger at the president, who is smart enough to realize his part in this (that he's the source of many of the messages) and that if I've seen one user's misuse, I've likely seen his as well.

    I'm looking forward to the day when we can deploy Windows 7 here, so we can move away from the user-as-Admin model, but many of our core line-of-business application vendors don't yet support Windows 7, so I'll just keep on keeping on.

    It's hard to teach fire prevention when you spend most of your time fighting fires. Something needs to give.

    --
    I use irony whenever I can, but my shirts are still wrinkled...
    1. Re:As a one-person IT department by DaMattster · · Score: 1

      I worked in a similar situation and it was maddness but I solved the problem with a little bit of forethought and concern for both sides of the issue. I realized I had to design an appropriate usage/access policy to protect the company. Taking some careful time I came to the realization that sometimes policies come off as too heavy-handed or even suspiciously sound like old-world Communist propaganda. As an aside, I remember getting an email at a company I worked for vaguely stating that additional security measures will "help me do my job more effectively leading to better job satisfaction and better performance for the company." Obviously, I wanted to avoid this hogwash, corporate non-speak. Here is how I did it. I implemented an authenticated proxy and drafted up an acceptable use policy in conjunction with HR worded to sound less punitive and more to explain the reasons for doing so - we are not in the military and do not have to snap to. Instead of firing off an email, I took a week to hold meetings with other employees and actually explained what happens when someone "chokes off the bandwidth." Most users use their computers somewhat impulsively without taking the time to think about the potential consequences. I found that by explaining, in more than just bullshit propaganda, the effects of abuse of the network, many of the more reasonable users agreed without grumbling. Even the grumblers begrudgingly admitted that the network works better. The manufacturing guys admitted that they depend upon their computers working perfectly to keep their machine tools doing the same. I found that people began policing themselves and reminding each other not to do because it may crash the CNC controller. In the end, I avoided becoming an enemy and my user base was smarter and more proactive.

    2. Re:As a one-person IT department by HikingStick · · Score: 1

      I appreciate your comments, and I like your approach. I'm not able to pull everyone aside into meetings, but I try to preach the same gospel in my everyday interactions with people. Most users have been very responsive, and only a few are real problem causers.

      I just got back from my meeting with the president. Thankfully, it went well. He's enough concerned about network slowdowns to have accepted the information well (in fact, he guessed the identity of the user, since he often receives the junk that he, too, forwards on). Oh, well. It's a minor victory for today. I let the president know that each hour I'm dealing with choked connections and junk in the mail queue is an hour I'm not able to add value to the company's ERP system (or other ongoing projects).

      --
      I use irony whenever I can, but my shirts are still wrinkled...
  52. It's the job of a security officer by Ceriel+Nosforit · · Score: 1

    Ideally it's not the job of the IT guys but that of a trained and outsourced security officer. A large security company has all the routine and resources to maintain this operation, and a reputation to uphold.
    Plus the guards are actually very unlikely to go rogue, to comment on what they have seen, or to be the worst culprits themselves.

    You can have the regular IT crew keep an eye the security staff if you feel the need.

    --
    All rites reversed 2010
  53. Re:Please do by maino82 · · Score: 2, Informative

    I just finished reading the Zombie Survival Guide and no where in there does he mention the use of gold bricks as a weapon, but I think you're on to something here. Just because the world has turned into a disease ridden hell hole full of the undead corpses of those you once loved doesn't mean you can't protect yourself in style. You, good sir, are a visionary.

  54. Re:Please do by ePhil_One · · Score: 1

    What the hell are you going to do with gold when the zombie apocalypse comes?

    Bludgeon the zombies with the gold, classy and effective.

    Given that gold is one of the softest metals available, I take issue with "effective". Sure, Zombie's brittle bones will shatter if hit with a log of fresh goat cheese, but what happens if you accidentally connect with a Non-Zombie Item (NZI)? The NZI will wreck your Zombie Defense System (ZDS), and then welcome to the Great Zombie Army (GZA)...

    --
    You are in a maze of twisted little posts, all alike.
  55. Re:Please do by ArhcAngel · · Score: 1

    You are correct. I thought about it AFTER I hit submit. Please to forgive.

    --
    "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K
  56. Re:Please do by Shikaku · · Score: 1

    A brick sized amount of gold is around 40 pounds.

    Yes it's soft, but it's super dense. If you can make a hollow sledgehammer out of something strong then fill it with gold, you could bludgeon someone's head off in one good smack.

  57. Monitoring employees off hour by pbaer · · Score: 1

    In response -- spurred in part by stricter regulatory, legal and compliance requirements -- organizations are not only filtering and blocking Web sites and scanning e-mail. Many are also watching what employees post on social networks and blogs, even if it's done from home using noncompany equipment.

    How does this work? I don't get how companies would 1) know what your blog or social network ID is, and 2) how would they have access to it?

    --
    There are 11 types of people, those who know unary and those who don't.
    1. Re:Monitoring employees off hour by slriv · · Score: 1

      You do realize that most people use their real names for blogs and social media sites. It's not hard to find John Doe who lives in Dallas and works at a certain company.

      --
      All the worlds a stage, and I'm the guy running the lights...
    2. Re:Monitoring employees off hour by yuhong · · Score: 1

      I use my real name almost everywhere, including here, and that as a 16 years old in school, partly because the problems with it needs to be fixed.

  58. Re:Please do by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That's why my second job is paid in trade.

  59. Re:Please do by Skal+Tura · · Score: 1

    They pretend to pay is correct, because it's such a small fraction of our creative productivity's worth.

  60. Re:Please do by luis_a_espinal · · Score: 1

    > Unless our paychecks (and the money we get when we cash them in) are > a figment of our collective imagination,

    Well, actually... unless you get hard gold-backed cash in your hand then yes, your pay is imaginary.

    I refer the Honorable Gentleman to the concept of Money Creation

    Well, I guess everything I possessed that I've paid out of my salary and that I own in full (as opposed to what I own in credit) is also imaginary. Enter the Matrix!!!

  61. Re:Please do by luis_a_espinal · · Score: 1

    What the hell are you going to do with gold when the zombie apocalypse comes? Eat it?

    No, your currency needs to be backed by canned beans.

    Screw canned beans. Back in my countries we back that shit up with chickens and hogs!!!

  62. Years ago by inode_buddha · · Score: 1

    Years ago, my employer had a CCTV camera in my work area.It watched the main entry and a hallway of offices. I used to stand under the camera at 6 AM every day and scratch my butt very vigorously. After 6 months of this, they removed the camera. Nobody ever said anything about it. See, there's more than one way to beat the system!

    --
    C|N>K
  63. Re:Please do by Shikaku · · Score: 2, Informative

    It's called fiat currency. What that basically means is money has value only because people say it does. "That's a good deal" is a daily example of this.

  64. Logged in but posting anon by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I worked IT for a fairly large (4500~ employees) company before moving to a programming position. I was only responsible for a very small subset of the company (300~ employees). I found a fair amount of porn on company laptops. My favorite case was when I found pornography of the employee and their significant other on the company laptop. The person had used the software that came with the camera to export the files which they diligently removed from the computer. However, they did not remove the copies in a temp folder in the camera software's install directory. I was re-imaging the laptop the was virus riddled but first I was backing up the documents for the user.

    Did I report the employee? Did I run to management? No. The drive got re-imaged and those files were NOT ones I backed up for them. The end result was that the drive was wiped and the images were off the company laptop. Why didn't I report it? Well, this was in a satellite office of sales staff. It was one manager and three sales people. All of them were male. One of the community offices supply filing drawers was full of Playboy magazines. Pornography was definitely acceptable in this office and the salesman's girlfriend's shaved coochie was nice break in my otherwise boring routine . .

    No harm, no foul.

  65. Re:Please do by tehcyder · · Score: 1

    Well, actually... unless you get hard gold-backed cash in your hand then yes, your pay is imaginary.

    There is nothing "real" about gold-based currencies either, you know.

    --
    To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
  66. I call BS on your BS by COMON$ · · Score: 1, Flamebait
    As a sysadmin I find your point valid but your reasoning BS. Security admins like myself do not spend our time looking at all the sites that employees go to...good lord do you really think we have that much time in our day? We monitor, log, and it gets put away for HR purposes. Occasionally we will look and see where people are going and what the bandwidth is being allocated to, but I don't know a single admin who does what you are bitching about. Now what IS done, is in high security environments, like financial institutions, will scan through the e-mail logs to see if any sensitive information leaked out.

    I love people like yourself who build up these straw-men, but have no CLUE why things are done the way they are, you just like to bitch about someone else being in control. There is a reason we don't let people like you make decisions that matter, because you are incapable of seeing the big picture. You make great Techs, bad admins.

    That being said, there are admins out there who are glorified babysitters. No one has the time to watch all web traffic and make a human judgment on it. iPrism has good lists where people actually categorize the sites so I don't have to do it. I am a BIG proponent of educating my HR departments on what is acceptable and what is ethical. Employees should be able to surf and browse as long as it does not endanger the company. If an employee is found to be having trouble keeping up with their workload, we as an IT department, will provide logs of their activities for Evaluation. This is a CYA scenario, otherwise the employee in question just states how they are overworked and HR can do nothing.

    There are also lots of bad admins out there who put bad policies in place. They webfilter but never block outgoing ports. Or they disable CD-ROMs but not USB drives.

    Your old boss is a prime example of this, but win 3.11 was very early in the game and people had not learned from the mistakes back then. We are getting better now, but wont get really good until the upper management from that era cycles out.

    To sum up, monitoring everything you can is essential in many businesses. CYA, Audit trails, and metrics are all good reasons. big brother antics make up for maybe 1% of it. The rest is just being throughough so when someone claims you sold or stole data you can prove otherwise, I personally can clear someone quickly if they get accused of stealing. I can also prove neglect. But it is up to a manager to start the process. Most likely if I am pulling up your activities, you already got caught doing something pretty nasty.

    --
    CS: It is all sink or swim...oh and did I mention there are sharks in that water?
    1. Re:I call BS on your BS by COMON$ · · Score: 1

      flamebait...really?

      --
      CS: It is all sink or swim...oh and did I mention there are sharks in that water?
  67. For the right reasons by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I don't mind monitoring people for the right reasons as long as they know they may be monitored. I make sure people know they can be monitored and that anything they do with the computer in their office might be recorded. Generally this monitoring only gets used if there's an obvious problem. For example, storage on our file server went up really quickly and we found an employee had been saving vast amounts of music and videos. Or the network is getting a lot of extra traffic and we go looking for who/what is causing it.

    In other words, I think monitoring should be used to find and fix problems, not simply for the sake of monitoring and tracking people. Usually if I see a problem I'll ask the user politely to stop saving porn on our network or to stop ripping their CDs at work or whatever. As long as it's handled in a respectful manner and IT explains why they want things done a certain way, I've found most people respond really well to it.

  68. Re: Phew, glad I'm not in the "free" USA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That sounds really crazy, how are those kind of things allowed??? Is there no expectation of privacy in your workplaces? Sounds even worse than China to me...

  69. Re:Please do by zill · · Score: 1

    GP was referring to the fact that you can easily convert from fiat currency to "real" products, thus rendering the whole "imaginary" part false. In other words, you can talk out of bank every payday carrying nothing but gold bullion regardless of what fiat currency your employer pays you in .

  70. Why is this IT's responsibility? by MobyDisk · · Score: 1

    Ignoring whether or not monitoring is good or bad: Why is it IT's responsibility to actively perform the monitoring? Of course it is their job to setup the monitoring hardware and software, but why pay an IT technician to watch people browse the web? That's like paying an optical engineer to watch someone through a two-way mirror. The engineer designs the mirror and installs it, but they shouldn't be doing the actual monitoring.

  71. Monitoring has little to commend it by bugs2squash · · Score: 1

    and I don't want to be the one defending it in general. But it has one redeeming feature; it should at least be unbiased. I think if I were to be fired I'd prefer it to be because there was some evidence of shiftlessness, rather than simply because someone in authority had a hunch that they "didn't like the cut of my jib".

    --
    Nullius in verba
  72. Re:Please do by The+Archon+V2.0 · · Score: 1

    A brick sized amount of gold is around 40 pounds.

    Yes it's soft, but it's super dense. If you can make a hollow sledgehammer out of something strong then fill it with gold, you could bludgeon someone's head off in one good smack.

    Yeah, but then no one can SEE it. I want the zombie bitches to see my bling!

  73. Re:Please do by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    they don't pay enough. my time is worth far more than a couple hundred bucks an hour.

  74. If they really cared about productivity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If my 8 different bosses really cared about my productivity, they'd give me an office with a door and a chair that didn't hurt my back.

  75. This is why Empathy is worthless. by otis+wildflower · · Score: 1

    My employer snoops IM traffic. To avoid that, I rock the OTR encryption in Pidgin, which is interoperable with Adium and Trillian, and works across all supported services (except possibly for Skype).

    Empathy does not support OTR, and is opposed to it philosophically, so IMO it's useless.

  76. Not a good idea... by SanityInAnarchy · · Score: 1

    First of all:

    Employee monitoring is in the position today where web page creation was 15-20 years ago. It was an "IT Function," because the tools were new and computer-y. Eight million "blink" tags and six hundred thousand animated "under construction" GIFs later...

    You're really going to blame the IT people for that? Blink tags, "under construction" GIFs, psychadelic animated backgrounds, and loud MIDIs and other forms of music playing when a page loads are all the kind of thing you get when you give the shiny new tech tools to non-technical people. What you're describing is basically Geocities, and later MySpace, and generally the Eternal September phenomenon.

    I don't think the situation is analogous, though, because I do think designers should have access to these tools -- though I also think that any decent website is going to require a technical person at some point. But it seems to me that the problem here is the amount of monitoring, and the extent to which we don't watch the watchers, and I doubt that moving that to another department would solve anything.

    As a tech, I'd be perfectly fine handing off responsibility once a violation is found, but until one is at least suspected, why monitor at all? And once one is suspected (which should be a rare event), why not tap IT to do what they do best -- configure things, look at logs, filter information -- and then let HR handle the human factor?

    --
    Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
    1. Re:Not a good idea... by DrgnDancer · · Score: 1

      His point about web design is just that, a point about web design. Of course a sys admin is maintaining the machine, the OS, the web server, and any ancillary daemons or services required to keep the site running. A programmer probably wrote the back end too. Neither of those guys should normally be designing the web site though. In a really small, broke company maybe, or if you happen to have a really creative and talented designer who also happens to be your sys admin. In the vast majority of cases though, design is a marketing/creative function not an IT function. And yes plenty of large commercial sites had awful initial attempts at designs because no one realized this.

      I can see his point here too. Yes, the infrastructure of the monitoring will be handled by IT. Yes, due to the nature of IT's rights and privileges on systems they maintain, chances are they will be able to see the logs (just as a sysadmin could change the web site, but they're not generally supposed to), but as a matter of policy it should not be their job to examine logs. That should be a management or HR function. I do agree that constant monitoring of logs when there's no reason to suspect any problems is kinda overkill regardless.

      --
      I don't need a million points of light, just two points of multi-mode fiber and a 10 Gig-E router.
    2. Re:Not a good idea... by SanityInAnarchy · · Score: 1

      His point about web design is just that, a point about web design.

      And it's wrong.

      Again, non-techies learning HTML were the ones abusing <blink>, MIDIs, etc. Eventually, the professional designers took over, which looked better, but was technically worse -- ever seen the HTML generated by Adobe GoLive?

      What we have now is a decent compromise -- designers design, web developers implement, and I'm not just talking about sysadmins. Then throw in some edit fields and you've got a CMS, so content producers can add content, random anonymous cowards can comment, etc.

      In other words: Design itself is not an IT function. Implementing that design often is. The designers should NOT be allowed HTML WYSIWYG tools, at least not for design work -- let them use Photoshop, let the new guy on the dev team translate it into proper semantic HTML and CSS (because nobody else wants to).

      And yes plenty of large commercial sites had awful initial attempts at designs because no one realized this.

      Plenty of sites, large and small, fall prey to one side or the other. You need both technical people and design people.

      as a matter of policy it should not be their job to examine logs. That should be a management or HR function.

      This is where I'm not sure if I agree, and why I'm not sure it's analogous. It absolutely should be IT's job to dig through logs, in that HR should not have unrestricted access to server logs or to the accounts which can talk to those server logs. It should go something like this:

      HR: We think Smith has been slacking off. Check some recent logs.
      IT: He spent half his time on Facebook and the other half looking at porn.
      HR: Ok, we'll fire him.

      This is the part I'm less sure of, though. I can see exposing the relevant information to HR, such that IT doesn't need to see it at all. That's entirely different than blaming IT people for the blink tag.

      --
      Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
  77. If you count damage control, yes by wsanders · · Score: 1

    I spend about 80% of my time cleaning up messes caused by replies to phishing campaigns, breakins from weak or null passwords, viruses from dubious web sites, torrent servers using all the bandwidth from a building, and people who have supposedly "lost" all their email after accidentally moving it to the trash. I have the right to go through their mail and search for, say, replies to phishing emails in their "Sent" mail, or log into their PC and look for pr0n in their Bookmarks. Does that count?

    Aside from that, I have worked NOWHERE (even at a big huge bank) where employee web surfing habits or emails were actively scrutinized. It just isn't worth the trouble. We thought about "saving" all incoming and outgoing email (for 8000 people), but after Management saw the price tag, that idea went nowhere.

    Certain PCs in certain locations with a proclivity for mischief (library kiosk, night hours security guards, building maintenance office in windowless basement) can just be locked down.

    Best countermeasure: open cubes with monitor windows facing out.

    --
    Give a man a fish and you have fed him for today. Teach a man to fish, and he'll say "WHERE'S MY FISH, YOU IDIOT?"
  78. Outsourcing seems to increase the need for this by flibbidyfloo · · Score: 1

    I've been working in IT and tech support for a long time, but I only have experience with outsourcing recently. My company cut their US based support staff by 70% and replaced them with a large number of workers in India that are paid about 1/3 of what we are.
    After more than a year of this, the US staff are (still) monitored very little, except for basic statistics. The off-shore staff are (still) heavily monitored and their internet access is far more restricted than ours. The reason seems to be that the cultural differences simply require it, but I'm not over there, so I don't really know.
    Any thoughts?

  79. Re:Please do by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They live; we sleep

  80. Corporate Civilization by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    IT is the infrastructure of the new totalitarianism. That's what it really comes down to. We live in an era in which the wealthy and powerful dominate society and are transforming it through the corporate control of cultural production. It's the unfortunate logic of late-stage capitalism. We have built the ruling class a machine which devours liberty.

  81. Have you actually read what you linked to? by warrax_666 · · Score: 1

    Didn't think so.

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    HAND.
  82. Actually by SCHecklerX · · Score: 1

    Those of us in Security don't like it much either. What people do with the connections we give them, if it violates policy, is a management issue.

    I have no problem doing a specific monitoring for someone suspected of violating policy, but to put global filters and monitoring on our entire infrastructure is a waste of time, money, and resources.

  83. Re:Please do by myrmidon666 · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Someone mod up the parent as funny. I lol'd. HARD.

    --
    *Process is Irrelevant, Progress is Paramount*
  84. Most monitoring is not so manual by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Maybe at smaller companies, the IT staff have little to do and have the time to monitor and review logs. And big companies (i mean fortune 500); the tools are automated and no body has the time to watch what people are doing. If you try to go to more then X prohibited sites in Y period of time, your name is added to a report that comes out the next day or week. People mistype and hit redirect links all the time. Sometimes you just click on a link and find yourself at Fleshbot - yes you knew it was something NSFW, but you didn't know you were going to a porn site. No one has the time to chase these minor infractions - when you have 30,000 to 100,000 employees, even the holiest will hit a bad link occasionally.

    As for the people that don't like monitoring; get over it. You are using company resources. You are free to go out to your car during lunch, fire up your personal laptop, slip in your aircard, and view all the porn you want. A previous poster seems to think that monitoring is like searching your stuff for Porno mags - well if there were a problem with people bringing it into the building and it was against company policy, then peoples desks would be searched for porn.

    If people were not guilty of bad behavior, then there would be no need to monitor for it; but the internet has changed the way things work. Most people would not carry porn vids or mags into work - it has never really been a problem outside of the blue collar locker room environment. But with the internet, no one can confiscate your mags and it is so easy and free, that most people don't seem to care. Like copying music, it is just so easy that "everyone" does it; but they didn't do it on such a scale before the digital age.

    I don't mind the monitoring, but if you catch people being bad, treat them all equal. Most fortune 500 companies will give an EVP a slap on the wrist (if anything); while the proles get fired for the same behavior.

  85. Re: Phew, glad I'm not in the "free" USA by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

    That sounds really crazy, how are those kind of things allowed??? Is there no expectation of privacy in your workplaces? Sounds even worse than China to me...

    Well technically, the equipment and the network belong to the company, so they're pretty much allowed to do whatever they want with it.

    We have freedom here in the USA, but only from the government. There's no freedom when you're on private property, using someone else's equipment. You're free to say and do what you want (mostly) if you're walking down a public street, or in your own home, but not in your employer's office.

  86. Re:Please do by Golddess · · Score: 1

    My rifle and ammunition say that those canned beans are mine, and that you are zombie food. :P

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    "I'm not sure I like the fugnutish tone you used in your post!" -RogL (608926)-
  87. Why hate your employees? by Just+Some+Guy · · Score: 1

    I work for a small, 50-person company. The town I live in is currently experiencing a "100 year flood" and a lot of local businesses are closed right now. Tuesday night, my employer called every worker to ask for volunteers to move heavy boxes full of paperwork out of our basement in case water started rushing in. Within an hour, about 50 people showed up (including spouses, boyfriends/girlfriends, and kids). When we were done, the boss sent out for pizza and beer and everyone hung out in the breakroom. Today, the company paid for massage therapists to come in to the office and give free massages to everyone who helped out, with all the spouses and boyfriends/girlfriends invited to come in to participate.

    We don't monitor or filter our employee's Internet access in any way, other than to put a spam and virus filter on the mailserver. Our company is very pragmatic: if an employee's personal habits don't cause a problem or cut into their productivity, then the bosses don't care. Because of all this, we have the most incredibly loyal environment of anyplace I've ever worked. Our turnover is practically zero with most attrition due to people moving or going back to college. If someone did spend more time than they should doing something not work related, they'd probably get a talking-to from their coworkers before the bosses ever found out about it.

    Oh, and our little 50-person company has been in business for more than 30 years, and in 2009 we processed more than a billion dollars worth of revenue. Yes, billion, as in each employee handled $20,000,000 in business on average last year.

    Some companies treat their employees as adversaries and watch them like thieves. My company treats us like family members, and in exchange we treat our jobs with respect and care. We're doing so much business that we can hardly keep up with it. If I ever strike out on my own and end up hiring my own workers, I know which path I'll try to follow.

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    Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
  88. Re:Please do by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What that basically means is money has value only because people say it does.

    As opposed to gold?

    Ohh, shiny...

  89. Two approaches by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I've done web filter monitoring at two companies that had different attitudes.

    One company tracked everything but blocked nothing. It was my job to review the daily logs to see who was viewing porn. Mind numbing waste of time. We were not allowed to tell people that we were monitoring. I was to print out sample images for their employee file, and typically a manager would confront and discipline or fire the person. It was all kept hush hush. I *hated* that job. I had plenty of more important things to do.

    The second company blocked almost all porn (can't ever block it all) and we had to run a monthly report to see whom had the highest percentage of blocked hits every month. Then a cursory scan of what was blocked. If it was mostly ads, no big deal. If there was a pattern of repeated attempted porn usage, then they got disciplined or fired.

    I loved the second company's approach. Most people stopped trying after a few block notices. Those that didn't, needed firing anyway.

  90. If you cannot trust your employees... by linuxhansl · · Score: 1
    then who can you trust?

    I know there are always black sheep, but a basic trust relationship between management and the employees is very important and better for the morale.

    If security is an issue, some security awareness training may be money better spent.

  91. YES by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Thank you. You summed up my thoughts as both a worker currently subject to the whims of an understaffed IT department, with some filtering and who knows what kind of logging going on, and as a former IT manager that took a pretty hands off approach to surveillance.

    Basically, as an employee, if you do good work, all day, and maintain reasonable productivity, NOBODY SHOULD GIVE A FUCK WHAT YOU'RE LOOKING AT OR DOING ON THE INTERNET, regardless of who owns the pipe and the box.

    I will say, some employees for whom I provided IT services did browse questionable sites, and did even on occasion show me porn received either as inline images or attachments, I simply would say to them "you know, you probably shouldn't be doing that here" and walk away, because once again, these were productive valuable employees and if they like tits and ass, that's cool with me.

    Somehow I think I'd make a lame cop too, as it seems most of these so called IT Security Professionals are simply on a giant ego/power trip, and are supported by micromanaging idiots that don't understand technology.

    That last sentence brought home to me exactly the problem - MICROMANAGEMENT. If you can't trust your employees to complete a task without holding their hands and wiping their asses all along the way, then maybe you should do the job yourself. MICROMANAGERS SUCK.

    Let me repeat this for all of you out there (and you assholes know exactly who you are) - MICROMANAGERS SUCK THE LIFE OUT OF THEIR EMPLOYEES AND KILL PRODUCTIVITY even as they think they're improving things, in their minds.

    This is one hell of a rant so AC it is.

  92. You are being... by unixan · · Score: 1
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  93. solution by misfit815 · · Score: 1

    I'm so glad I'm not an admin any more - but when I was, I had a simple solution. I posted outbound logs to our intranet in a user-friendly, easy-to-browse format. Anyone in the company could see what was popular. Pr0n completely dropped off the radar, as did (iirc) WeatherBot, or something like that. When the guy finally saw with his own eyes what a drain his stupid little app was having on our bandwidth, he uninstalled it (I probably could've forced the issue, but thought it was smarter to convince him than order him).

    --
    Jesus told him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father except through me. - John 14:6 NLT
  94. Re:Well I consider myself lucky and blessed then.. by yuhong · · Score: 1

    BTW, I was recently thinking of a system that makes the entire work time like Google's 20% time, where engineers can basically freely do anything they want, including working on any project, with little monitoring (maybe even make contributions to projects anonymous). It would be an interesting experiment to collect statistics on, though I am not sure if it will work in the real world.