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Harry Reid Pushes Nevada As "Saudi Arabia of Geothermal Energy"

Posted by timothy on from the flogging-sand dept.

An anonymous reader writes "Of all the 'mainstream' forms of renewable energy, it seems that geothermal power is always left in the shadows compared to solar and wind power. However, that looks set to change with news that the US Department of Energy will fund geothermal projects in northwestern Nevada and southeast Oregon. With funds from the American Reinvestment and Recovery Act, the DOE has stated a 'conditional commitment' to provide a partial guarantee for a rumored $98.5 million loan to the Nevada Geothermal Power Company (NGP). According to US Senator Harry Reid, 'Northern Nevada is the Saudi Arabia of geothermal energy.'"

36 of 369 comments (clear)

  1. According to US Senator Harry Reid ... by WrongSizeGlass · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ... that kind of kills it for me. Any politician making such proclamations must be taken with a pound of salt. Wasn't Nevada also proclaimed as the dumping ground for nuclear and toxic waste?

    1. Re:According to US Senator Harry Reid ... by e9th · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Reid, the Senate Majority Leader, is in danger of losing his long-held seat. He needs the pork badly, and the administration is more than willing to help him out.

    2. Re:According to US Senator Harry Reid ... by nebaz · · Score: 4, Interesting

      It makes me wonder, if Senators bring in pork to their state to get re-elected, do you think there would be more pork in general if we repealed the direct election of senators, which some claim would give states more say in the Federal government? As is I think the fact that so much party money is on the line to keep representatives 'pure', which greatly distorts the idea of local elections.

      --
      Rhymes that keep their secrets will unfold behind the clouds.There upon the rainbow is the answer to a neverending story
    3. Re:According to US Senator Harry Reid ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      I don't know about how much Reid is in danger. His opponent is on record for a variety of...odd positions: eliminating the US Department of Education, pulling out of the United Nations, getting rid of Social Security, Medicaid, and Medicare; wants to protect our purity of essence and precious bodily fluids by opposing fluoridation of water, similarly wants to get rid of alcohol, thinks global warming is a hoax and is for drilling for oil here, there, everywhere. Is also the nutter who thinks overthrowing the duly elected government of the United States via a violent revolution is a good idea. All Reid has to do is frame the campaign that way and it's pull the lever for the nutter or pull the lever for Reid. He'll beat her by 10 points. That's how bad of a candidate Reid is--she should manage the 25% dead-enders at best. Still bringing in more federal dollars isn't a bad idea for Reid, pork or legitimate (but well-timed).

    4. Re:According to US Senator Harry Reid ... by iluvcapra · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The senators would be appointed by their state legislatures in a manner that's up to them -- in the 19th century the state legislature would hold a vote, or the governor would make an appointment subject to state senate advice and consent, or whatever.

      The problem with this approach was that it made senate seats a form of patronage for governors and state political machines, and while the people appointed might have been worthy there was zero democratic accountability, and senate appointment was a notoriously corrupt institution -- take the recent Rod Blagojevich nonsense and imagine it were the norm. Eliminating the direct election of senators in order to control "pork" or earmarks, which are themselves only about 2% of the federal budget, and are at least as big a problem with House members, is a pretty extreme solution.

      --
      Don't blame me, I voted for Baltar.
    5. Re:According to US Senator Harry Reid ... by clarkkent09 · · Score: 4, Informative

      She is not crazy at all and if you think huffington post is a reliable source of information on conservative candidates then you are crazy.

      How about having her describe her opinions instead instead: http://www.sharronangle.com/issues/

      Or how about the opinion of the people of Nevada: Angle: 50% Reid: 39%

      --
      Negative moral value of force outweighs the positive value of good intentions.
    6. Re:According to US Senator Harry Reid ... by Traze · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Real Link
      Sorry about that. O_o

    7. Re:According to US Senator Harry Reid ... by mrchaotica · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The Washoe County Commission in 1992 rejected fluoridation, and Angle said the Legislature should not approve fluoridation in her county without a vote of its people.

      All that indicates to me is that she supports checks and balances between state and local governance, not that she opposes fluoridation.

      Her website itself plainly states she wants to eliminate the department of education and social security.

      Does that mean she's philosophically opposed to education and safety nets for the poor, or -- more likely, I think -- does it mean she supports decentralization of government (i.e., where the state or local governments would control education and provide social safety nets)?

      I don't know anything about this person beyond what I've just read in this thread (and not being a citizen of Nevada, I don't particularly care), but she sounds merely like a supporter of [federalism|checks and balances|states' rights], not a crackpot.

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    8. Re:According to US Senator Harry Reid ... by Third+Position · · Score: 3, Informative

      Why should I want more democracy? There's nothing particularly sacred about democracy. That's the point of the Senate, the founders recognized that mobs can get carried away by stupid ideas, and that's why the Senate was intended to act as a buffer to the House of Representatives. Now, we effectively have two Houses of Representatives, and what's the point of that?

      Further, consider the priorities of an elected official. He gets into office by whoring for votes. His priority is the next election, not how his actions will affect the country decades into the future.

      The point is, elected officials and unelected officials have different incentives. That's why the government was designed to have components of both.

      I actually think it was a mistake to allow direct election of the president. It causes people to concentrate on the election of one politician on whom they have little influence, rather than their local representatives where the views of a relatively few people actually can have significant influence.

      --
      American Third Position
      Finally, a real choice!
    9. Re:According to US Senator Harry Reid ... by Mindcontrolled · · Score: 3, Informative

      Ya really.

      Deinococcus radioduransshrugs of acute doses of 10000 Gy and thrives under a constant 60 Gy/h. That's way beyond what your puny machine will offer...

      --
      Ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.
    10. Re:According to US Senator Harry Reid ... by chapstercni · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You say "eliminating the US Department of Education" like it is a bad thing!

      I'm all for it.
      I'm for pulling out of the United Nations.
      I'm for getting rid of Social Security, Medicaid and Medicare.
      Floridation of water? Debatable. But, a local gov't issue.
      Alcohol? Local issue.
      Global warming? It IS still being debated. And then, not proven that it is man-made warming.
      Drilling for oil? Please, lets! I am for keeping dollars in the USA, instead of being sent overseas.
      Really, the States Rights vs. Federal Rights is the pivotal issue.

      In the words of Thomas Jefferson, whom helped found the USA.
      ""Most codes extend their definitions of treason to acts not really against one's country. They do not distinguish between acts against the government, and acts against the oppressions of the government. The latter are virtues, yet have furnished more victims to the executioner than the former, because real treasons are rare; oppressions frequent. The unsuccessful strugglers against tyranny have been the chief martyrs of treason laws in all countries." --Thomas Jefferson: Report on Spanish Convention, 1792. "

      http://etext.virginia.edu/jefferson/quotations/jeff0300.htm

  2. Las Vegas... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Las Vegas is the Saudi Arabia of prostitution, booze, gambling, and insane energy use.

    It looks like Harry Reid is trying to use the Saudia Arabia of geothermanl energy to power the Saudi Arabia of prostitution.

    As long as nobody tries to put a veil on the hookers this plan sounds good to me.

    1. Re:Las Vegas... by Tackhead · · Score: 4, Funny

      Las Vegas is the Saudi Arabia of prostitution, booze, gambling, and insane energy use.

      "Forget your Saudi Arabia! I'm gonna make my own! With hookers! And blackjack! In fact, forget the energy! Aaw, screw the whole thing!"
      - Harry Reid

  3. The problem with geothermal by overshoot · · Score: 5, Insightful

    is that unlike wind and solar, it's always on. This makes it much more difficult to explain why it won't meet baseline demand.

    --
    Lacking <sarcasm> tags, /. substitutes moderation as "Troll."
    1. Re:The problem with geothermal by peterofoz · · Score: 3, Funny
      NEWS FLASH 4/1/2015

      Federally funded Nevada geothermal plant sponsored by Harry Reid triggers massive earthquakes in San Francisco and causes the giant Yellowstone caldera in Wyoming to rise another 50 ft.

      http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/dec/15/swiss-geothermal-power-earthquakes-basel

    2. Re:The problem with geothermal by Solandri · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The problem with geothermal is that after you extract the heat from the rocks, it takes time for the surrounding rock to heat up the cool spot you've created. This places a natural limit on the rate you can extract heat energy from a geothermal well, thus making it unsuitable for high population density areas like cities. The geological formations in some areas provide their own natural flow of subterranean water, thus constantly carrying in heat from other distant rocks to your geothermal well. But those are exceedingly rare.

      Regardless, I am very optimistic about geothermal for meeting the energy needs of low population density areas. On top of that, geothermal heat pumps for heating and air conditioning, while not an energy source, improve efficiency so much that in both hot and cold regions of the country, they will typically pay for themselves in 3-7 years.

    3. Re:The problem with geothermal by Dunbal · · Score: 3, Informative

      it takes time for the surrounding rock to heat up the cool spot you've created. This places a natural limit on the rate you can extract heat energy from a geothermal well

            While I'm no expert in the field I daresay that there's a "natural limit" to anything, including the energy produced from an oil burning plant. Surely the output of the plant is an engineering issue, and it's simply a matter of design.

      --
      Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
    4. Re:The problem with geothermal by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Federally funded Nevada geothermal plant sponsored by Harry Reid triggers ... earthquakes ...

      Not completely a joke.

      High pressure injection of liquids into faults makes them act as hydraulic jacks with piston cross-sections measurable in square miles, pushing the faults open. If the faults are under even slight crosswise stress that cause earthquakes. (This was first discovered in Denver when the Rocky Mountain Arsenal used a deep injection well to attempt disposing of chemical warfare waste, later researched and documented.)

      Doing it with a liquid that can boil when the rocks are hot means you have less control over the process once the liquid is in place and being expanded by the heat. (IMHO there's also a possibility of activating a volcano.)

      While setting off quakes in northwestern Nevada probably won't bother the faults in San Francisco or Yosemite, it wouldn't be all that friendly to the people within a few tens of miles of the site.

      --
      Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
    5. Re:The problem with geothermal by drinkypoo · · Score: 4, Informative

      The problem with geothermal is that after you extract the heat from the rocks, it takes time for the surrounding rock to heat up the cool spot you've created.

      The problem with geothermal power is cleaning up the toxic waste.

      I've said it before and I'll say it again: geothermal power is a total failure on all levels. I live within shootin' distance of The Geysers, the most geothermally active region known to exist on Earth. We have a geothermal plant here which is continually over budget and under-producing. The turbine blades are built by Halliburton, which is a disaster in itself. After they have been in service for a certain period of time, they must be cleaned of buildup of toxics like Arsenic which are released from the vent along with the steam. Most of the hot springs in town have measurable Arsenic content. This is simply pressure-washed off, and the slurry stored in open pits for evaporation. After this process has been repeated a sufficient number of times the pit is covered over and the walls raised. They used to put it in drums and bury them in a field on one of the roads out of town but the drums started leaking and cows were being born with two heads and that sort of thing, so they "cleaned it up". Oh, sorry, THEY didn't clean it up, we did. It was a superfund site; we still have one of those operating in town, for similar compounds. The "solution" was to dig it all up, put in a rubber liner, and bury it again.

      There are other types of geothermal power options, like heat pipes, but all you have to know about them is that they are terribly inefficient (not that any geothermal plant in the world is producing any amazing amount of power) and they don't last, just like the turbine blades in our example. You're always digging things up and replacing them, which is terribly impractical. The simple truth is that solar panels could repay the energy cost of production in under seven years back in the 1970s and if all the money spent on geothermal plants was spent on even PV solar plants we would have produced a lot more power for the same amount of money.

      Anyone promoting Geothermal power for low environmental impact is either ignorant or trolling.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  4. About time! by migla · · Score: 5, Funny

    There are far too many women driving around in Nevada!

    --
    Some of my favourite people are from th US; Vonnegut, Chomsky, Bill Hicks.
  5. Naturally by Pojut · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Of course it is. Since it's your state, Mr. Reid, it couldn't possibly be anywhere else, right?

    That's one of the things I always hated about politicians. They always think their state is the best at ::insert arbitrary thing here::. I got news for you, bud: it's America. Hardly anything here is the best. A lot of it is very good, some of it is even awesome, and some things are even legendary in how amazing they are...but I think saying best is generally pushing it.

    -American who loves his country, which is why he can be honest about it

    --
    Living With a Nerd
    1. Re:Naturally by lawpoop · · Score: 3, Interesting

      That's one of the things I always hated about politicians. They always think their state is the best

      It's not a problem with politicians, it's a problem with the system. The constitution says that a senator represents a state, a congressperson a district. If you want it to be different, we need to have a body that is elected by the American people as a whole.

      --
      Computers are useless. They can only give you answers.
      -- Pablo Picasso
  6. Saudi Arabia? by denzacar · · Score: 4, Funny

    How much is that in sensible scientific measurements like Libraries of Congress or Football Fields per Square Barleycorn?

    --
    Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
  7. Re:Geothermal energy ignored? by inanet · · Score: 3, Informative

    Here in New Zealand (only the most thermally active place in the world with people living on it) we use quite a bit of geo-thermal energy, but apparently we are only utilising the tip of the iceberg, although there are plans for more plants to be built... one of the great things about geothermal energy is "waste gold" that builds up in the pipes ;) ... unfortunately along with sulphur and all sorts of less desirable bits and pieces...

    --
    "This is my Sig. there are many like it but this one is mine."
  8. Some More Sources: by BJ_Covert_Action · · Score: 3, Informative

    Here are a few more sources for info. regarding the contract...posted for no other reason than my own annoyance with Inhabitat =P

    DOE Press Release with Media Contact Number

    Sustainable Business Blog, apparently the initial plant will produce 49.5 MW in capacity

    Home website of NGP, the contract winner

    Write up from EON, with quite a bit more info, including contact info. for various parties involved.

    --
    Motorcycles, Robots, Space Gossip and More!
  9. Re:Geothermal by ArbitraryDescriptor · · Score: 4, Funny

    Geothermal isn't really that renewable!

    Once we suck all the heat out of the Earth's core, the mantle will solidify: fusing all the tectonic plates and ending earthquakes and volcanoes once and for all.

    Win/win.

  10. Re:Yellowstone Caldera? by nephilimsd · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Actually, as a resident of Reno (it's not as bad as it sounds.. really) I can definitively say that there is more geothermal energy over a wider area here than in Yellowstone. My understanding is that Yellowstone has a very strong, but very locialized pocket of usable energy, whereas the entire greater Carson-Reno area is tappable for energy. There have been quite a few apartment complexes and neighborhood groups who have pitched together to fund geothermal wells in this area, and effectively end up paying about 15k as a one-time cost to eliminate an electric bill for life (well, the life of the well, anyway). Best part is, because more energy is generated than can reasonably be used by 15-20 houses, the rest gets sold back to the electric company, and NV Energy takes care of maintenance on the well in exchange.

  11. Re:Geothermal by Dunbal · · Score: 4, Informative

    Once we suck all the heat out of the Earth's core, the mantle will solidify: fusing all the tectonic plates and ending earthquakes and volcanoes once and for all.

    Win/win.

          Assuming that were possible (don't worry, it's not), you end up losing the dynamo effect of a liquid mantle, the Earth's magnetic field vanishes, and the solar wind blows the atmosphere off into space. Yeah, really win.

          Nerd card revoked.

    --
    Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
  12. Re:Geothermal by ArbitraryDescriptor · · Score: 4, Funny

    Oh, you misunderstood. I was speaking on behalf of the Earth.
    Win 1: No more painful earthquakes and embarrassing volcanoes.
    Win 2: No more disgusting fungi and parasites mucking about on the surface.

  13. Re:Geothermal by ArbitraryDescriptor · · Score: 3, Funny

    But I've never been this close to one before! :(

  14. If the Yellowstone Caldera goes... by voss · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Earthquakes in San Fransisco will be the least of your worries. The last eruption of the Yellowstone caldera 640,000 years ago
    shot 240 cubic miles of rock and dust into the sky.

    1. Re:If the Yellowstone Caldera goes... by Mordok-DestroyerOfWo · · Score: 4, Funny

      The last eruption of the Yellowstone caldera 640,000 years ago

      Wow, I saw you had a low ID, but I never realized they went back that far!

      --
      "Never let your sense of morals prevent you from doing what is right" - Salvor Hardin
  15. Well, that settles it by DesScorp · · Score: 4, Funny

    "Sharron Angle is fucking crazy. [huffingtonpost.com]"

    Well, if the HuffPuff said it, then I'm sold.

    BTW, if you think Sharon Angle is crazy for wanting to eliminate several departments in the Federal government, and phase out Social Security as it currently exists, then you're going to be mighty shocked at how many crazy people there are.

    --
    Life is hard, and the world is cruel
  16. Lying Senator by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The actual state most likely to qualify as a "Saudi Arabia of geothermal energy" is Wyoming. Remember the Yellowstone supervolcano? The caldera is tens of miles wide. We need to drill into the magma at a thousand places and extract heat, not only for the energy , but also because reducing the temperature down there relieves the pressure, and makes it less likely that the volcano will go off!

    1. Re:Lying Senator by sjs132 · · Score: 3, Funny

      Or you could end up with a bad movie where drilling results in the volcano going off... Hmmm.... :)

      --
      --- Relax, that mass muderer is just trying to reduce our carbon footprint, one fetus at a time...
  17. Re:Silly by rts008 · · Score: 3, Funny

    "Nevada"

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