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Sleeping iPhones Send Phantom Data
Stoobalou writes with a story that got started earlier this month when iPhone users in the US and the UK noticed that their phones seemed to be sending large data bursts via 3G overnight. (Providers are ending unlimited contracts, so iPhone users are paying more attention to how much data they are using.) The discussions began on MacOSRumors and an Apple discussion forum. Thinq.co.uk makes this guess as to what is going on, but doesn't offer much in the way of substantiation: "The simple fact of the matter is — as far as we can tell — that the iPhone's push notifications and other small transfers of data are totted up throughout the day and the total for all of those notifications is added up after dark and sent to your airtime provider while your phone is sleeping. If these tiny amounts of data were individually listed your bill would probably be the size of a telephone directory. The reason it is using the 3G network rather than Wi-Fi is that all iPhones up to and including the 3Gs turn off Wi-Fi push functionality while the phone is in sleep mode, in order to preserve battery life. The iPhone 4, incidentally, has better power management so will not need to do this."
iPhones are dreaming!
Do iPhones dream of non-walled Androids?
Living With a Nerd
Combine this news with the timing of the AT&T 2GB cap announcement with the release of iPhone 4, and well, it smells like a forced upgrade.
My blog
The headline is contradicted in the summary. It should read: Sleeping iPhones Appear To Send Phantom Data.
Turns out they don’t, it’s just a total of use from the entire day that accumulated a lot of tiny data transfers made by the iPhone’s system which are too numerous and trivial to itemize on the bill.
Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
The iPad (even non-3G) and the Touch also have the ability to stay logged into a WiFi network in very low power mode and so can get push data over WiFi. And I can't imagine these were forced by AT&T.
Besides, what if you are in an AT&T dead zone (of course we all know these are mythical ;) and you get a FaceTime(TM) call or try to Find My iPhone? Wouldn't you like it to get through on WiFi even though you can't get a push over 3G to your phone?
http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/8/20/95
It's not a few bucks in my bill that I care. I worry about my phone sending out data surreptitiously in the middle of the night. What the hell is it sending?
I don't usually bash Apple users. As much as I don't like Apple's practices, and as much as I'd like to see everyone using Free Software, it beats using windows. But this time, this guys scared the fuck out of me. They catch their phone sneaking out data in the middle of the night, and none of them is truly worried about it. They are sort of wondering "Oh, what could it be?". It doesn't matter what it is. Apple has no right to phone home without specific user authorization. The way Apple and Microsoft users have accepted the fact that they don't really own their devices, and that their corporate overlords can control their phone/computer is scary, to say the least.
WTF am I doing replying to an AC at 5 A.M on a Friday night?
Seriously, I'd mod you down if I hadn't already posted in here.
Stop with the pariah attitude. If you post tangentially related (at best) stuff about how you don't like Apple repeatedly, you'll get modded down, period. Add something to the discussion besides (hey, did you know Apple is still censoring apps!) and you might be treated differently.
Just because you want to say it a lot doesn't mean people want to hear it everywhere.
http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/8/20/95
I live in a fringe area. While I get a good number of bars with Edge, 3G is hit or miss. I work in town where 3G reception is good though so I usually keep 3G on. That said, I have noticed that some evenings my battery drains almost completely while just sitting on my dresser. It's not every night so I chalked it up to reception. However, this makes more sense if it's trying to transmit data with a crappy signal.
for me as I don't get a good 3G signal at my house!
Go AT&T!
I like microcars
We have about 150 iPhones for corporate use and we have had to return 8 so far because of bad battery life. We have had more reports of deteriorating battery life from approx. 25 more users that doing a full restore to the phone and NOT applying the backup, just rebuilding the phone manually, has resolved their battery life back to original capacity.
The key is not to restore the backup created immediately before the restore in iTunes. Even though all of the push and antenna settings are set correctly, there is still something in the OS that makes the battery drain.
The worst one I've seen so far would drain 8% every 5 minutes; you could literally watch the battery percentage count down like a timer. Doing a restore of the OS fixed it.
The iPhones are using 3G bandwidth overnight to report on how much 3G bandwidth they used during the day?
Undoubtedly no; it’d be tallied up on the provider’s end and then added to your bill by a batch queue running daily. Other than that relatively minor detail, I think their theory is pretty sound.
Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
You got modded down for the Foxconn bit sparky.
Foxconn build stuff for HP, Cisco, Nintendo, and I think Microsoft.
That comment was clearly a troll and unbalanced. So yea it was both a flamebait and a troll.
Get over the persecution complex.
See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
I understand your qualms, but, I just don't share them.
Yes, Apple maintains control over the app store. But, generally it's intended (at least, in theory) to ensure that the user doesn't have a crappy experience. I have a new iPad, and from just the free apps that are available for download, it largely does everything I need it to do.
Heck, I seem to recall seeing an app which basically a stripped down browser that operated in safe mode, and chucked all of the data when it was done. So you had "private" browsing such as it is. One could surf porn using that if they so chose, but Apple doesn't want to sell or be associated with porn.
However, I'd point out that only just last week or so, Microsoft said they'd not be allowing porn on the Windows Mobile devices, so it's not like Apple is doing anything different there. I'm betting that under most circumstances, most fortune 500 companies don't want to be associated with porn.
As to the products ... between using my iPods (I have four accumulated over a decade), my iPad, and iTunes, I've come to appreciate the very integrated experience, it "just goes" -- your mileage may vary, but people using Apple products are actually kind of happy for the rubber-bumpers and safety rails. I'm acutely aware of the fact that they've covered up the sharp edges and made sure to put safeties in all of the outlets. But, I really enjoy it for that fact, and, IMO, it actually contributes to the overall experience. If I want to operate with complete freedom, I have Linux, FreeBSD, XP, and Vista boxes I'm free to do anything on I want.
As far as the whole carrier thing, I would go so far as to say that every cell phone I've ever owned has been tied to the carrier who sold it to me, and the exclusive deal Apple originally did with AT&T kept that business model going. I also understand they're going to start selling unlocked iPhones, so one could be unchained and not need to jailbreak.
I guess if you think your freedom is being restricted, their products aren't for you. If you actually feel like they've just set you up with good choices that work and do what you need, you don't see it that way. And, it's apparently a completely binary position from what I've seen lately on Slashdot. It doesn't seem to be possible for their to be a middle ground.
To me, I like their products because they strip out all of the fiddly bits and focus on what it is you want to do with them. Having my iPad controlled by my existing iTunes actually simplified things for me. Far more so than a netbook, which I think would both require more care and feeding, and still be beholden to the keyboard and mouse model. Checking my email in my backyard while playing iTunes and then going back to my e-book ... well, that alone was worth the price of admission. Same goes for taking some documents I need to review away from my desk, and sitting in a comfy chair. I'd rather review a whole slew of technical stuff not sitting bolt upright in a chair, and not with a laptop sitting in my lap. This is more like a hardcopy.
And, really, for defending Apple, recent stuff shows me I'm more likely to get modded down than you are. On a lot of threads is seems mindless Apple bashing gets modded up, and actually trying to discuss the issue and defend Apple gets one modded as Troll. Because everyone has some pet crusade that, for them, makes any and all Appler products completely EVIL ... and people seem unwilling to acknowledge the point that their point of view doesn't match that of the people who actually choose to use, and enjoy, Apple's stuff.
Cheers
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
The way I'm reading this makes it seem like they buried the lead. The iPhones are using 3G bandwidth overnight to report on how much 3G bandwidth they used during the day? That's stupid! That's stupid like 8 different ways.
If they were it would be.
Instead it's a matter of when data usage is reported on your bill - nothing more.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Yes, but it's not just listening. It has to send the tower a keep-alive so the network knows where you are, and calls can be routed to the right tower. Otherwise every cell tower on earth would have to individually broadcast every call made, and wait for a phone, somewhere, to respond.
:p
Plus, carriers gotta be able to charge you through the nose for "roaming" just because your phone is powered on in their airspace
Depends if you think of the phone as a 'portable personal computing device', or really just 'an appliance'.
Like you, I couldn't stand anyone telling me what software I could or could not run on my personal computer (running Linux or Windows or whatever). It's a ~personal~ microcomputer which I should be able to make run any arbitrary code I desire to feed into it. I can even write my own software for it.
Some might also consider a phone to be the same - a completely open bit of personal hardware that they should be allowed to do with as they please.
OTOH I think a lot of people out there (not saying I'm one of them) consider a phone as merely an appliance. They buy it in the knowledge that its not an 'open' device you can do what you want with. But they don't care. I mean ... they don't really care that I can't run arbitrary code on their DVD player or their microwave or their car stereo system or whatever. And they think of a phone as being in the same class of device - they just want it to work and don't have a desire to do anything more fancy with it.
Apple has been successful selling such locked down products to that kind of consumer. You (and I) disagree with that approach, but there are good alternatives out there, so there's no real reason to get worked up about it. If I don't like it, I won't buy it.
The 'locked to a carrier' thing is also strictly a US thing. In my country (and most others) you can just whack any old SIM card in an iPhone and it will work on any network like any other phone. I should also point out that Apple's actual ~computers~ (i.e. Mac OS X running laptops and desktops) are still open platform 'personal computers' ... indeed these days you can even run Windows or Linux on them). So I don't think the lock-ins pervade every product they sell. Just the iPad/iPhone/iPod/etc.
But you're right - you shouldn't be modded as troll for discussing these things. They are legitimate concerns with Apple's products. But I just think that you are not Apple's target market - you want a computer when they are really just trying to sell an appliance.
Theoretically you are probably right but not in practice - I have personal experience (warning N-size one story coming up): My folks live up in a remote area where there is no cell service. If you take a cell phone up there and leave it on, the battery will get drained very rapidly (~ 8 hours). I think it's probably b/c it's hearing very distance signals and trying to connect and failing at max transmit power again and again. If you turn the radio off of course the power drain becomes very slow. Once you drive into town where there is signal, the battery drain becomes more typical.
We've noticed that our comparatively-ancient Nokia 2610 (prepaid AT&T) does this as well - we noticed because both our car stereo and our PC's speakers pick up transmissions from AT&T phones.
Thing is, we observed it transmitting even when it's turned off...
Except it shouts "Marco", then expects to hear "Polo" back. If it gets the response, great. Otherwise, it can increase power and try again. It will repeat this until it gets a signal or hits its maximum strength, and gives up.
I know my phone drains much faster when I'm in a poor reception area than when I've got a good signal.
That's a great conspiracy theory, but it sounds more like your battery was shot and you lost all your settings every time because the phone lost power.
There is no OS upgrade mechanism over the air.
Because Apple "Just Works". For varying values of "Just Works".
This is a perfect example of the emperors clothes as it applies to Apple. Actually suggesting that someone put the phone in Airplane mode is crazy. Unless they are using it for an alarm clock, having the phone sit turned on with no passive functions possible, and no one to initiate an active function, Airplane mode is just an inefficient form of "OFF". Suggesting that someone turn their phone off every night so that they don't get charged exorbitant fees for some unknown, and certainly unneeded function is no better than telling someone they would be better off running Window Me as their primary OS over whatever they currently have installed.
A phone that must be turned off every night is kludgy and broken, providing a terrible user experience.
This is true. And it's actually a battery saving technique. The phone will attempt to transmit and make a connection with the weakest possible transmission power possible. If that fails, then it kicks up the power and tries again.
In the well covered areas, it doesn't take a lot of power to hit a cell phone tower. So the amount of power needed to stay in contact is minimal. In a weak signal area, it takes more power to maintain that contact, which is why the battery drains faster. Also, in weak signal areas, the signal tends to be lost completely often. When that happens, the phone will wake up and start searching for a new tower using the previously described ramp-up method. It will keep attempting that every minute or so until it finds a tower.
Sonds like the firmware got corrupted. My wife took her 3GS (1 year old to the day) in to the apple store last night. A tech looked at it, found it reported ~8 hours of battery life but 700 days of standby time. Obviously this was not right, found the firmware was corrupted and asked if she would permit a wipe and restore. Apparently this caused some errors in the back and a few min later he came back with a new phone for her.
As it was the last day of the included warranty it only cost us a few minutes of our time. Note that as it was the firmware that was the problem she could not do a full restore from her computer. Just reinstalled apps, some restored data some did not. And had to re-setup to her liking.
Telephony sessions are typically billed at the end of the session. Phone calls are billed when they are disconnected, SMS's when they are delivered, etc.
GPRS sessions (not individual sockets, the entire IP tunnel) are also typically billed when they are torn down too. This means that on some platforms data sessions can go unbilled for a long, long time. I've heard of months-long Blackberry sessions.
Now, the iPhone doesn't fully close down GPRS sessions when it goes idle, we saw that story a while ago. It does a fast disconnect, leaving the session running and hoping to reconnect to it later. What may be happening is that these sessions time out in the middle of the night, when the phone goes idle for long enough, resulting in a middle of the night charge for data from the entire day.
These long running sessions are being noticed by carriers, and they are starting to request mid-session commits, where the bill isn't updated at the end of the session, but at set intervals.
This is true. And it's actually a battery saving technique. The phone will attempt to transmit and make a connection with the weakest possible transmission power possible. If that fails, then it kicks up the power and tries again.
You have it backwards. Phones don't transmit when they are looking for a tower, they LISTEN. The tower has MUCH more transmit power than the phone does, so when you are out of range, it is likely you can hear the tower, but it can't hear you.
And when the phone does try to make initial contact with the tower, it does so at the highest possible power level. The tower then tells it to reduce the transmit power, if it is too high.
The tower is smart about receiving initial contacts too. It reserves some time slots for such attempts, in effect saying "if you're trying to get in touch with me, do so NOW". It has to do this because of the propagation delay - it doesn't know how far away you are, and doesn't want you to transmit all over a time-slot that is reserved for someone else.
brings the trolls out
it's not just iphones. it's ALL PHONES FROM ATT.
http://pogue.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/06/18/another-iphone-mystery-explained/
Fortunately, this one has a happy ending. AT&T spokesman Mark Siegel tells me:
“What your readers are seeing is a routine update of the daily data activity on their devices—whether the iPhone or other handsets—to ensure billing accuracy. Customers are not charged for any data usage as part of this routine update