Slashdot Mirror
Women Dropping Out of IT
Women's eNews has an interesting look at women in tech, with numbers showing that women are bailing out of the IT field at a rapid pace. "Technology jobs are predicted to grow at a faster rate than all other jobs in the professional sector, up to 22% over the next decade, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics. Compensation is also good. In 2008, women in tech made an average salary of $70,370. ... But women's stake in that rosy outlook is questionable. For starters, men's pay during the same time period was $80,357. A study by the National Center for Women and Information Technology ... also finds that women are leaving computer careers in staggering numbers. 'Fifty-six percent of women in technology companies leave their organizations at the mid-level point, 10-20 years in their careers,' said Catherine Ashcraft, the senior research scientist who authored the report. In 2008, women held only 25% of all professional IT-related jobs, down from 36% in 1991, according to the group's report, 'Women in IT: The Facts.'"
Since the women leaving the IT field are bringing down the percentage of women in the IT field, of which there have been many stories on about on Slashdot saying this must increase, they're working against the raising of women in the IT field. Therefore, they must be sexist.
Could it possibly be that women drop out of these jobs 10-20 years into their careers to have children? Could this also explain the difference in "average" salary if their careers have a break or work shorter weeks?
The terms are being used interchangeably here. The bloom is off the rose on IT careers, certainly (in the US, at least), and not just for women. And the number/type of pure IT careers is imploding, I'm sure (once upon a time there were "webmasters" who were counted as IT guys). But capital "T" Technology as a whole? The highly technical careers that use computers and software as tools? I'm not convinced.
Fewer woman programmers and server room jockeys, OK. But fewer woman technology workers and technicians? Not so sure. Sounds like stats being massaged to prove a point for somebody...
They try, but they can't, because they wear shoes precisely designed to prevent any form of rapid ambulation.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Yet, they still tend to stay far enough away from people who say things like "rapid ambulation" in casual conversation to make it irrelevant.
I have never met an IT person nor worked in a place of IT where I can honestly say we have ever put down a woman that works in the field. But keep in mind, there is a difference here. Something so many women seem to forget.
IT nerds don't have to give you respect *because you're a woman*.
IT nerds give respect *when you know what you're doing*.
This is a key difference, because we (used to) have a ton of women in our company in IT that commanded a lot of respect. These smart, knowledgeable, and powerful women left the job not because of the men, but because of the pressures of the job (our DBA left because she was having to get up at 12AM to do database maintenance stuff because of a contracted developer we had).
I just quit my 15 year IT career to be an artist. As a bonus, all the medical conditions I had while in IT disappeared within 2 months of leaving it. I probably just added years to my life expectancy. My salary went way down, of course. Then again, without all the stress I'll live to spend some of it now.
IT isn't a place for women, but it's not a place for men either. It's a sinkhole that takes the best and brightest and turns them into bitter husks (if they don't run off screaming first).
IT careers are fundamentally broken. IT is not treated like a science. IT workers don't have unions to protect them like mechanics and doctors. IT gets the worst of everything. Most people can only immerse themselves in code and gadgetry for so long before they notice that their peers appear to be leading more enjoyable lives.
I still like computers and I follow the latest technologies that interest me, but I never intend to work IT again. It's just not worth it.
Fucking Gods! The is the most sexists post I've seen in slashdot in ages! But its aimed at men so it ok right?
Women are not more intelligent than men, statistics prove it. Women simply have different options and opportunities.
It's men who are dumb enough to tolerate the aspy-programmer types, the sneering arrogant IT guys,
These are mostly myth, sure they exists but I've been in several IT firms and people are generally nice.
the mailing lists full of flaming personal attacks leveled by closet bullies empowered by semi-anonymity,
That's human interaction for you, guess what? Women are prone to as much if not much more drama when it comes to discussions.
the phallic-compensating gadget consumerists,
Yes! The only reason people consume is because they have small dicks! That explains why women love to go shopping! No wait, consuming is only bad when you are a guy right?
constantly "helpful" types who manage to insult while trying to rescue,
Again myth, and you'd be surprised how women manage to be dickheads nonetheless. My mother worked in an all female environment and I've heard several stories about abusive bosses and cheating employees.
and the sexually inept who use pinup wallpaper and leer at any woman in eyeshot.
Teehee, you said "sexually inept", you should've said "sexually repressed" but of course you wanted to be as offensive as possible.
Even so this is about your only stab that almost hits something, but women aren't excepmt from this because they are smarter, they have the privilege of having a lower sex drive meaning not only they have less urges but also that there's a ton of guys ready to calm any urge that might arise.
Men don't have to be passionate about computers and programming to do well in our field.
That's questionable, Show me a good programmer that isn't passionate about programming.
But even so, what shall we do with men who ARE passionate about programming? Shot them?
But brilliant women who are not passionate about the field are smart enough to tell us all to go fuck ourselves after the first serious flame, because they know nobody should have to put up with that shit.
Well if they are not passionate about the field by definition they don't have the drive to remain in the field you dumb ass. What about brilliant women who ARE passionate about computers? Or does passion about a carrier equal stupidity? Or is it maybe just for IT?
Your post is dripping with sexism, hate and intentional stupidity. A modern society should not have any acceptance for such a despicable attitude.
But... the future refused to change.
>>>all the medical conditions I had while in IT disappeared within 2 months of leaving it
I refuse to let myself become stressed-out in my job. Even if my boss is breathing down my back and saying, "If you don't get this done I'll find someone else who can," I just ignore the mother fucker. I chose this career to ENJOY it not to be treated like a McDonalds employee, and if he does replace me with somebody else, so be it. At least I'll be happier than Mr. Heart Attack.
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
My IT career quit me. {sigh}
I haven't found new work in it, and with a total income of a whopping $0 (not including unemployment and friends giving me food and places to sleep), I have to consider other options.
I've been trying to find serious IT work. I'm either:
1) Over qualified, where they don't want me because the senior folks are afraid I'll take their job, or I'll bail as soon as better money comes along.
2) Not qualified, because I don't know some specific qualification required for the position. I may seem like I know everything, but it's still impossible to know everything.
3) Not interested at the rate. $10/hr for a 3 month part time gig that requires moving across the country to a high cost of living area isn't exactly an acceptable offer.
So women are leaving IT? Big deal. Lots of people are. I'm about ready to be a short order cook, or an auto mechanic, but lately I've just been a handyman, doing anything friends need in exchange for food, drinks, and places to sleep.
Serious? Seriousness is well above my pay grade.
If anti-intellectualism is what is required to blend well with the society, I say: fuck the society.
The creatures outside looked from Alt-Right to Antifa; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
It's men who are dumb enough to tolerate the aspy-programmer types, the sneering arrogant IT guys, the mailing lists full of flaming personal attacks leveled by closet bullies empowered by semi-anonymity, the phallic-compensating gadget consumerists, constantly "helpful" types who manage to insult while trying to rescue, and the sexually inept who use pinup wallpaper and leer at any woman in eyeshot. Membership in (or at least tolerance of) a repellant boys' club is an almost-mandatory feature of our industry.
In a 20 year career as a software developer:
1. I haven't met any programmers suffering from Asperger's Syndrom (I assume this is what "aspy" means, correct me if I'm wrong)
2. I haven't known any "sneering arrogant IT guys". The IT guys I've met have been normal, helpful human beings.
3. I have seen some harsh emails, but not often and nothing like the venom you describe
4. I can't recall any "phallic compensation gadget consumerists", but perhaps I'm not looking hard enough...
5. I haven't met any "constantly helpful types who insult while trying to rescue"
6. I have seen some teenage male type usage of naked women pictures, but that's been quite rare. Do you think that teenage male types only exist in the tech industry?
Do you think that "boys clubs" are more prevalent in the tech industry than other industries? The problems that you cite probably exist in most companies to one degree or another.
One of the differences between working in a GNU/Linux shop and that other OS is stress. Last year, I worked in a shop using that other OS. It was always frightening on zero-day-malware-day because I always had to work late making sure updates were done in spite of having automatic updates enabled. With GNU/Linux, I type a few commands and it gets done for the whole system in a few minutes and I can go home to sleep. Last year I had trouble sleeping more than four hours. This year, I sleep as long as I want knowing things are safe. Next year, we will be 95% M$-free. I look forward to that.
A problem is an opportunity http://mrpogson.com
"But there's a nice unexamined assumption in your post: Why the fuck aren't the men taking parental leave or caring for the children?"
Well, some of us are. At my current position at least 3 top male engineers have taken time off to care for their wives and newborn children.
This is well regarded and considered a given for women, but there is still palpable prejudice against men doing the same.
In my particular case, I even got a direct ridiculing, sneering comment from a female co-worker,
along the lines of "you must be the next winner of the most dedicated father of the year award".
This kind of sexism against men, specially in highly technical disciplines goes often "unnoticed" by the same
journalists who relentlessly lament how "poorly" women fare in the workplace.