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Best Phone For a Wi-Fi-Only Location?
bendodge writes "I am planning on heading to a university in a remote area with very poor cellular service (the only signal is spotty Verizon voice, no data). However, the entire campus is thoroughly blanketed in Wi-Fi. I am trying to find the best and most economical 'Wi-Fi phone' or else hack one together. Belkin/Netgear sell what is essentially a portable Skype device for $180. These folks recommend outfitting an iPod Touch with a mic and VoIP apps. I am looking for something that can make and receive calls to and from landlines with incoming call notification. What experiences have Slashdot readers had and what would you recommend?"
It may be a bit more expensive, but you could get any android phone and run sipdroid through a SIP provider of your choice, then forward your mobile number to your SIP line. Then you have the advantage that you can seamlessly switch to a mobile network when you go off-campus.
The Belkin WiFi phone sounds like a good idea. The trouble with using an iPod touch would be the battery life with WiFi on. I've tried to browse for an hour so on my iPod Touch and it severely drains the battery. Why get a music player/gaming device if what you really need is a phone? Yup. Get the Belkin phone and subscribe to SkypeOut. I've been pretty satisfied with the call experience even when I've made international calls. Safest way to go IMO.
When I was in a similar situation I simply got a used Symbian phone (in my case a Nokia E60 for some 50 EUR, the most important thing is there to get one with the S60 operating system.). You should be able to use that with Skype for Symbian, or alternatively with fring if your phone is not supported directly. Works well.
The E-series Nokias had the advantage is that they also included a SIP client out of the box so you weren't limited to Skype. Also there is a Python programming environment if you're into that sort of thing.
Unlike the iPod Touch it also has the advantage that it works as a phone when you're somewhere where there actually is cellular reception, or when you go abroad.
As a state gets corrupt, its laws multiply; the most corrupt states have the most numerous laws. (Tacitus, Annales 3:27)
The iPod Touch ships with a microphone on the 3GS and above. It is built into the Apple earphones. You can download Skype for free. I would use that but only if you need an iPod / MP3 player anyway. If you don't then you could pick up a Netbook for the same price that can do a lot more...
The E-series is a great solution, or if you want a more geeky toy, the N900. Prepare to charge the phone daily though, if you keep the WiFi active with Skype online all day.
She: Hey, are you a traitor? Me: No, I'm atheist.
Comes pre-installed with Skype, and it's trivial to set up any other SIP provider. A little on the expensive side perhaps, but you get an excellent Debian-based computer with it.
Get a T-Mobile UMA capable phone. Most of their blackberry line is compatible with UMA calling. UMA makes phone calls over WiFi
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unlicensed_Mobile_Access
I've had one for almost half a year and have used it for Skype calls quite a bit. VoIP is integrated in a nice way and it's a really great device in general.
The dedicated Skype or VoIP phones are junk in my experience: hard to configure, unreliable, etc. They usually can't deal with browser-based configuration, limit your choice of VoIP providers, etc.
My recommendation: get an Android phone, Nokia Symbian phone, or an iPod touch. All of them support VoIP, including Skype. The Android phone is the better choice but a bit more expensive; it will also allow you to make phone calls when you travel. Nokia phones with WiFi are cheaper, have better battery life, and also have great browsers, but the UI is bit clunky. The iPod Touch has a good screen and lots of apps, but the only way you can call is with a headset.
(I've used all of them myself.)
Have you considered getting a T-Mobile phone with UMA? It's certainly not the cheapest option with standard mobile pricing of ~$30/mo and ~$5 of various taxes, but you have the added advantage of being able to have a "normal" phone when you're outside of Wi-Fi coverage.
If you're looking for the best value, you can get an Ipevo Wi-Fi Skype phone for ~$140 (a bit less than Netgear/Belkin; works fine). Add $3/mo unlimited US calling and $30 for SkypeIn so landlines can call you, and your total cost is $66/yr... That's tough to beat, and what I would do if I were you. The only downside is that the batteries for these devices may be a challenge to source, and as far as the phone, it's certainly no-frills.
The iPod Touch is not a solution I can recommend due to the lack of on-device microphone -- not to mention its battery on Wi-Fi being rather poor.
Good luck, and way to go on saving some cash! ;)
I recommend any T-Mobile phone that is UMA (Wifi calling) enabled. UMA phones essentially do GSM-over-IP, so when the phone has a wifi signal, your normal phone number encoded on the SIM card will ring, and you can send and receive calls and texts normally. Most T-Mobile BlackBerries, and a few other phones can do this, its listed as Wifi Calling on the spec sheets. You can also take your phone and use it as normal on T-Mobile network, and then have it hop on wifi when you move into range seemlessly.
(UMA is not SIP, it works very well over low bandwidth links, and I've had little trouble with it)
If T-Mobile doesn't work for you, a Symbian or Android phone with a VoIP client using something like sipgate might be a good choice.
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Ah, see further down... guess you mean UMA...
I have to agree with rxmd, the nokia N-series and the E-series have a an amazing sip stack. one more thing, sip has a lot of issues behind a NAT.one more opting is the nokia n900, it has a front facing webcam and has complete Skype integration.
I own a Belkin WIFI Skype phone, I used it as a home phone with Skype in/out and in general it's pretty neat BUT, it drops calls, a lot. It drops calls almost as bad as AT&T.
I have a good solid WIFI system and Skype on my iPhone via my WIFI works without flaw. I do not have WIFI issues.
The Belkin randomly drops calls even when I am within 6 feet of the base and it also randomly locks up and randomly reboots.
If you can put up with that, it's neat. If you require flawless service, skip the Belkin. They have not updated the firmware in it since it was first made available.
If you google the device you will see many other complaining of the same problems.
Disclaimer: That is MY personal experience with the Belkin WIFI Skype phone.
IF you have the cash I would definitely go for the N900. Both skype and sip work perfectly over wifi (and 3g for that matter) without the need for separate apps. The phone just works identical for Skype, SIP and normal GSM. (Leading to weird situations where you pick up the phone never realizing it's a Skype call, while the other party assumes you're at home behind a PC...)
My N95 is an amazing SIP device. The native SIP implementation means that a SIP call behaves exactly like a normal call. Just dial the number as usual, just choose internet call instead of voice call. It works over wifi and 3G, almost seamless.
As for NAT, I never had any problems with it. It has NAT transversal support.
As for cheap, you can always buy one second hand.
Weird name, but works well. Round $130 normally.
http://www.frys.com/product/5859653
Reviewers seem to find the Belkin and Linksys units flaky, but the Ipevo gets good reviews. We have one. Don't use it much, but it's worked everywhere we've tried.
You could also hack together something with an old Windows CE unit (i.e. Dell Axim x51v has the power, but Wifi it a bit weak.)
Or maybe get a tablet PC (Fujitsu U810, Oqo) with a headset, optionally bluetooth. They use a normal OS (Windows, Linux, even Mac OS) not the wacky cut-down ones on those other machines.
Not that this wasn't entirely predictable.
1. Belkin WiFi Phone... I got one of these a few years ago. The sound quality is not too bad, but the battery doesn't last terribly long, and more importantly, the sound volume was too quiet. I had to use a headset with it most of the time (and it doesn't support bluetooth).
2. iPod Touch. You need a iPod Touch 3G (the older ones don't support microphones), and then you will have to use a headset. I have one of these, and I use it some of the time. If you want to use it only for outgoing calls, it's fine. If you want to receive incoming calls, then you'd better leave skype running, in the foreground, and make sure the screen doesn't lock (not very realistic). Some of this may be improving with OS 4, but I wouldn't hold my breath. Alternatively, you can get an iPhone, and just use Skype or your favorite app on there, since it has the mike built in.
3. UCCom (Starcom?) WiFi SIP phone. This was like #1, except it wasn't skype specific, it was locked to uhm.. Vonage. It sucked in most every way. The volume was quiet, the battery life was short, and the display and menus were primitive.
4. Sony Mylo 2 - This is billed as a "personal communicator", but it if really a glorified Skype phone. They are pricey new, but you can probably get a used one cheap these days... It can auto-connect to WiFi (of course), and auto-launch skype, and auto-log in (of course). It has a touch-screen, and you can dial normally with Skype-Out. The volume is reasonable, and it comes with a headset as well. The battery life is pretty good, and it has some other apps (like Google talk) as well. Most importantly, it comes with a cradle (or if not, you can buy one separately), so you can put it somewhere and have it charge and wait for calls when you're not using it - like a normal phone. Mo more fishing for USB charging adapters, etc. I have one and it's been hooked up and in constant use for about 2 years. It does a good job of staying signed into Skype and reconnecting WiFi/Skype automatically when there's an issue. Most reviews of the Mylo say it sucks, but that's because they were rating the web browser or other features which, frankly, do suck. (Or because the reviewer didn't know it was WiFi only and wondered why it wouldn't work when there was no signal). As a Skype phone, I haven't seen better. I also take it with me when I go overseas, so I can use it at friend's houses and random places like Starbucks.
Note: First, I am not making an account just to post this (hence the AC), but since I am a heavy user of this type of thing he is asking for, please mod this up to help the OP.
I'll second this. Got my n900 a few months back for the exact same reason as the OP. Now I am connected continously to a number of VOIP and other services receiving calls and starting them without hardly knowing the difference. It all just works.
Ideal for Wifi use, cos they don't work on the cell networks properly
Another metoo here - the way N900 handles Skype and VOIP is very nice.
But seriously, be aware of the battery drain. N900 lasts for a day with WiFi on and with moderate Skype use (always signed in, max. ~2h talktime). And what's annoying it still can't use all the power-saving thingies in WiFi with certain access points so you might have a surprise in some locations with hot phone draining the battery in full speed. The good thing is that it still gets fixes and matures and wifi-related bugs are still being closed.
And it is still quite expensive. If the only requirement was the wifi and SIP/Skype I would definitely google around for the Nokia E-series (S60 3rd edition, do not bother with older ones) - they tend to have good battery life and Skype and VOIP works - and you don't get the power drain of the N900's large touchscreen and Linux kernel which frankly isn't as mature on the N900 as the Symbian equivelant is regarding to power management.
See http://nokiaexperts.com/tmobile-nokia-e73-mode-uma-wifi-calling-killer-functionality/ for an example - UMA is a way of having 'standard cellular voice' (GSM based) delivered over WiFi - it's a bit like VoIP in that your GSM voice call goes over IP, but unlike VoIP in that it is not using SIP or Skype, and instead you roam between WiFi and GSM areas seamlessly (useful when off campus).
UMA WiFi phones are mostly for people who go between WiFi and GSM - one huge advantage is that the phone can automatically turn off the radio it's not using i.e. turn off GSM when WiFi is used. This saves a lot of battery life. Another big advantage is that you have one phone number and one phone service across GSM and WiFi, which is useful when you are off campus, and of course GSM mode will use less battery. T-Mobile offer this in the US, see link above. http://www.umatoday.com/ has general info.
UMA phones are thin on the ground but it's a useful feature - quite a few Blackberries support this. If you don't need UMA, almost any Nokia E-series phone with Symbian S60 would be fine. The Nokia phones are not the highest tech but they are very reliable, which is good if this is your only phone on campus - the E71 also includes GPS and other nice things, and I got it free with a great $40/month package. The N-series are more consumer oriented and also run Symbian, apart from the N900 which is Maemo.
I refer to the Nokia VOIP compatibility list a lot for times like these, and the URL that has always worked is (I hope the pages works again, soon):
VoIP support in Nokia devices - Forum Nokia Wiki
http://www.forum.nokia.com/main/resources/technologies/voice_over_IP/voip_support_in_nokia_devices.html
For clients, family, & friends, I always pointed out any Nokia phone on that list handled SIP natively. However it seems today Nokia is updating their site, and that URL is unavailable. I really hope the page comes back!
My own 'ancient' N95 with a 2nd forward-facing camera (needs Fring, but then I'm making skype-compatible video calls) does pretty everything the recent 2 generations of iPhone do. Only the newer iPhone shoots in higher resolution is all. But multitasking, SIP, tethering, and A2DP bluetooth (wireless phone/music headset), I've been enjoying all that stuff for several years earlier than Apple said I could.
My favorite app is SportTracker, which allows voice-enabled AGPS, or sans-data-plan then GPS navigation (that's 2 map apps, multitasking nicely). I can ride my bike, listen to tunes, a computer lady tells me when to turn, the music fades out softly for incoming-headset SIP calls. And I can upload my trip to Nokia's SportsTracker server, for social networking/exercise, w/ Gmaps, etc. Nokia is even coming out with a 15-20 euro bike-powered-charger; I can't wait. GPS wants juice. The N79 even records Polar heart tracking data, and uploads it along with any auto-geo-tagged MP3 playlist to SportsTracker.
The N900 _IS_ a linux computer, and I'll upgrade to it, or its successor, once my N95 dies, but so far, so very good. Nokia does great with software updates too; (over the ownership of this device, Nokia has impressed me this way; it is so much better than when it was new)
You can't be ahead of the curve, if you're stuck in a loop.
If you can, get a Nokia E72 unlocked. If you can't get the E72, get any E series Nokia phone (I have E71).
Reason for recommendation:
* WiFi roaming is painless
* 1500mAh battery: WiFi *drains* battery. You absolutely need the phone with largest battery pack or you're looking at charging it twice a day. A large screen android/iPhone is fun for a week till you get tired of looking at battery bars. Nokia will last whole 3 days on GSM and will get you through the day on WiFi.
* Integrated SIP with same dialing/receiving experience as a GSM call
* VoIP apps: Pretty much every VoIP app is available including Fring, Talkonaut and Skype apart from integrated SIP
* Excellent sound quality
Cons:
* Small screen by today's standards (you get battery life in return) ......)
* Abysmal inbuilt browser (you can have Opera Mobile and Opera Mini instead)
* It's not hip in US (however, if you want nerd points it'll score many - run wordpress on your phone with downloadable port of Apache2, MySQL4 and PHP5 - no kidding)
* Custom development is painful, but you get everything and the kitchen sink to write apps for the device (Python, Java, C++,
* No touchscreen
- mritunjai
"I am planning on heading to a university ...
(deleted plan to spend hundreds of dollars to talk on the phone)
... what would you recommend?"
My other post gave a technical recommendation to answer your exact question.
My "real" recommendation is your priorities are totally screwed up. Hundreds of dollars equals about a hundred six-packs of tolerable beer or bottles of cheap booze, and college girls like parties with alcohol. Hundreds of dollars equals around a hundred or so keg parties (you know, a plastic cup costs $5, and the keg is over there surrounded by lonely college girls). Trust me that "traditional dating" of college girls is somewhat cheaper than post-college girls, so hundreds of dollars equals at least dozens of traditional movie and dinner dates. Hundreds of dollars equals some nice wardrobe additions, and college girls like a well dressed stylish man (but don't go all overboard). Hundreds of dollars would easily pay for a year long gym membership, and college girls like a healthy looking guy and they like to talk to guys at the gym. You may notice a common theme to my numerous examples of better ways to spend your money. Now decades later, you can reminisce about all the fun you had with your numerous girlfriends in those wild and crazy college years, or you can have an obsolete broken phone with a dead battery in a box in the basement, your choice... And if you're trying to meet guys, my advice stays the same, with different pronoun genders or whatever.
"Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
IF you have the cash I would definitely go for the N900.
Or, since the submitter wanted "most economical", you could get an N800 or N810 for much less off fleabay etc. A bit bigger, but much better battery life than the N900. (no GSM/3G) Does skype and SIP very well.
I'm going to suggest the ultra low tech solution and suggest a good old fashion land line. With a modern cordless you can go your dorm's floor and perhaps one above and bellow with ease with it. The problem is if you use a call over WiFi at a university, you will have to stay where you are for the duration of the call. I had the same issue two or three years ago. The university had just a series of repeaters / access points with same SSID / Chanel lined up, and if more than one was in range (as they usually are to provide decent coverage) my wireless device would hop between the access points. Fine for web browsing, but using any service such as VOIP would result in the call disconnection each time it "hopped" between AP's.
I have a 32GB ipod touch with skype. I bought the skypeIn service which gives me a real landline number. When people call that number, I pay a per minute charge. I buy time in $25 increments. I would say on a busy month, I go through that unit of credit.
Since it serves as a second phone, I often keep the ipod docked to my laptop which is plugged into a wall scocket. Battery life is an issue, but overall I like my solution. I wish I could get 3G service for the iPod.
Samsung Omnia i910 (might be a new version out by now). Mine rocks. The wifi in it is top notch.
The new iOS 4.0 software allows the iPod touch to stay connected to WiFi even when sleeping just as the iPhone stays connected to 3G. This was done because of the "muti-tasking" included in the latest build. I believe Skype has already released an update to run in the "background" on the iOS 4.0 software or will be releasing it soon.
Why not get a used 3G iphone? They are dirt cheap now...unlock it, put a prepaid AT&T card in it if you so desire, or just put skype on it if you want to use WiFi only.
For reasons I do not understand using WiFi takes a lot more juice than using the cellular network. While many small devices, like a cell phone or iPod touch can do SIP, they get really hot and burn battery really fast. I would not consider any of them usable as a general purpose solution if you want reasonable talk time.
I don't know much about dedicated WiFi phones, there are some out there and they may be good choices. However, due to the battery issue, perhaps an iPad? The larger form factor provides a much larger battery. The same SIP apps that work on the Touch will work on the iPad. You might like it for other reasons too. :)
I'm on my second T-Mobile Blackberry (Bold 9700) that has this capability, and they work great for WiFi calling. I work out of my basement, and there weren't a lot of options for cell reception. I don't subscribe to their WiFi calling, which means calls use my minutes, but they have a $10/mo plan for unlimited calls over WiFi.
Before you make ANY decision, it would be prudent to speak directly to the school's computer services department to make sure that your device will be able to use wifi there. Most schools don't just throw up a mesh of hotspots with a simple password. Some require all sorts of authentication procedures, some disallow all devices except xxxxxx, etc, etc. At my undergrad years ago when stylus handhelds were all the rage, I inquired about setting one up on their wireless network. The answer: not supported. Nowadays, and especially at a small school, they may be more willing to work with you. Just sayin', don't buy anything until you're sure that you can use it there.
I work at a university and we've tried to set up the same things on our wifi network. The problem is that in order to use our wifi, you have to log in via a web browser first. Additionally, whenever the device sleeps, it releases the dhcp ip, so when it awakes, you have to redo this process unless you can get on a whitelist. Our departmental devices can, but I doubt they'd allow a student this convenience. You may wish to wait until you get to college and see how the network functions before buying something.
I have a Nokia 6301. Its very small and just a phone (it can email and do very limited web surfing.. although its not pretty). It does hop onto wifi and make calls on wifi when it can. Works well, I have t-mobile, I think they call it "hot spot" calling or some such thing.
I would absolutely not purchase anything without seeing how it works on campus first. There should be enough people around with enough different options to get a feel for things over the first couple of weeks (or less). My advice prior to that (and afterwards) is to get a Google Voice number and use that as your number - that way you can have it forward to whatever number you end up with, get text messages via email, etc. If you decide long-term to move away from GV you can do so after you have a phone that works.
I use UMA on my Blackberry regularly, but at least on my device I've seen times where it seems like it'll refuse to connect via UMA until it's seen a regular mobile signal. That may just be me (there are people using it internationally where they're definitely not getting a T-Mobile USA signal), but it's something to be aware of. There are other things that may keep it from working as well - UMA requires TCP connections on ports 500 and 4500, so if those are blocked it'll cause problems. There's a variety of information available from a few years ago when UMA first showed up about what needs to be open for it to function.
fencepost
just a little off
The N900 is basically a commercially available development model. I wouldn't recommend buying it unless you're willing to go hack around in the terminal a little and maybe do some programming on your own; if you think that the terminal is where you catch your flight, you'll probably be happier with an iPhone or Android or something, honestly.
On the other hand, if you're willing to do some hacking, the benefits can be enormous. I've got fucking AdblockPro running on my N900's browser - MicroB is just a specialized version of Firefox, so the plugin works. It doesn't Just Work (tm), but if you mess around with permissions enough it works eventually. ABP is kind of slow on a mobile computer (I think it relies heavily on regexes or something), but it's nowhere near as slow as downloading all those goddamn ads.