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Google To Add Pay To Cover a Tax For Gays

GrApHiX42 writes "Starting on Thursday, Google is going to increase the salaries of gay and lesbian employees whose partners receive domestic partner health benefits, largely to compensate them for an extra tax they must pay that heterosexual married couples do not. Google is not the first company to make up for the extra tax. At least a few large employers already do. But benefits experts say Google's move could inspire its Silicon Valley competitors to follow suit, because they compete for the same talent."

41 of 1,036 comments (clear)

  1. Why so discriminating? by bbqsrc · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Why is it okay to discriminate against people in such an expensive way? That's like taxing tampons or pads because they know that 50% of people need them. It conflicts with the Christian moral agenda in the first place in so many ways...

    --
    Disagree != mod troll.
    1. Re:Why so discriminating? by txoof · · Score: 5, Interesting

      This is the angle I can never figure out. Homosexuality isn't like robbery or assault, it doesn't affect anyone except for those that participate in it. And, no, alternative sexual orientation is not a crime. The argument that a extending rights such as marriage to gay couples somehow lessens the social value of marriage is ridiculous. Following that same logical path, all those that do not practice christian marriage (Jewish, Islamic, Navajo) are also decreasing the social value of "christian" marriage.

      I hope that Google's position in this matter will help influence other companies and eventually federal and state policies positively. If enough companies throw their weight behind this issue, it will become standard to offer a salary benefit for gay partners to cover the tax difference. Once it becomes standard, you can bet that companies will start lobbying congress to solve this problem in order to save them money.

      Aside from the tax issues, how can anyone that appreciates the freedoms offered by our constitution and the rationale backing it in the declaration of independence, willfully discriminate against another based solely on private, personal preference? After all, "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all [people] are created equal."

      --
      This one's tricky. You have to use imaginary numbers, like eleventeen... --Hobbes
    2. Re:Why so discriminating? by CharlyFoxtrot · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Christianity is NOT anti gay, some (most) of the christian churches are anti-gay. They base this on a selective reading of the Old Testament which they use to justify an opinion they already held previously. The "christians" who use their faith to justify anti-gay bigotry should be told to read Leviticus in its entirety and fuck off. Especially those in US churches that look more like Old Testament eschatological cults than anything teaching the New Testament values of love and forgiveness.

      --
      If all else fails, immortality can always be assured by spectacular error.
    3. Re:Why so discriminating? by rjch · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Anal-abusing males and group-masturbating females (commonly known as lesbians) do not contribute children towards the population of Planet Earth and USA in particular.

      Contributing children towards Planet Earth is something that governments in general are going to have to discourage. At least one country on Earth already does. The planet simply cannot sustain a growing population indefinitely.

      I should also note that many gay or lesbian couples do adopt children, or undergo fertility treatment to have children.

      Since it is the job of the future generation to care about the current generation when it becomes elderly, people who do not contribute DNS to the future generation, shall be required to shoulder extra burden for the common good of the society.

      In general, the elderly that the current generation care for are their own parents, not other "generic" elderly people. Given your logic, then gay and lesbian people are doing themselves a disservice by leaving themselves without someone to care for them when they grow older.

      In Europe and South America many countries actually had taxes for healthy 25+, who were unmarried and 30+ still without kids.

      Whilst I've never heard of such a tax, I suspect that "had" is the operative word if such taxes did actually exist. We are already straining environmental resources significantly with the population we have. We do not need more to contribute to the problem.

    4. Re:Why so discriminating? by sqrt(2) · · Score: 4, Informative

      I always say, if people go to hell for sodomy, then you're going to hell for shaving and wearing a cotton-poly blended T-shirt - both things mentioned in Leviticus...I don't think it specifically mentions T-shirts though.

      --
      If you build it, nerds will come. Soylentnews.org
    5. Re:Why so discriminating? by somersault · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Even the new testament criticises homosexual relationships (and the only laws of the old testament that were "updated" in the new testament were ones to do with sacrifices and what you could put into your body).

      I just Googled to find passages and opinions on it. One site tries to say that the bible is simply criticising non-Christian worship practices when it complains about same sex relationships, but that's clearly a load of horse shit. It would just say so if that was the case.

      It also tries to claim that the passage about Sodom and Gomorrah is nothing to do with Sodomy and that "know" literally means know rather than "have sex with", when Lot clearly offers his daughters to "do with what you will" instead of the men.

      I don't believe in any of it any more, but like I said I find it pathetic when people try to twist their own scriptures to make them more politically correct instead of just manning up. If you don't agree with your scriptures, then stop worshipping your bigoted God.

      --
      which is totally what she said
    6. Re:Why so discriminating? by Rogerborg · · Score: 5, Insightful

      We hold these truths to be self-evident, that [the robber-barons in our Country Club are just as good as any ennobled British lord or monarch]."

      Fixed that for them. That is precisely what they meant, after all: that any rich white man was as worthy as any noble white man, not some laughably ridiculous notion that blacks or women had any worth.

      --
      If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
    7. Re:Why so discriminating? by ObsessiveMathsFreak · · Score: 4, Informative

      Homosexuality isn't like robbery or assault, it doesn't affect anyone except for those that participate in it.

      It affects the people who are offended by it. They are offended--outraged even. And in a democratic society, these outraged people have a voice, and these voices in total are loud enough to force governments to punish the people who's behavior caused the offended people to become offended.

      In fact, offense doesn't even really come into it. You can just have enough people who simply don't like another group and who will vote in punitive laws that will punish that group for simply existing. This is Democracy 101, otherwise known as the Tyranny of the Majority or at least the tyranny of the people who control the majority.

      And this is largely how democracy is practiced today. And in case you think this only works one way, consider other things which have been banned/restricted like indoor smoking, fox hunting and chemical equipment ownership. In an age where the will of the people is absolute, people get what they vote for; or what other people paid to get them to vote for.

      --
      May the Maths Be with you!
    8. Re:Why so discriminating? by Rogerborg · · Score: 5, Informative

      [Anti-gay Christians] base this on a selective reading of the Old Testament

      • Gen 19:5-8: "and they called to Lot and said to him, 'Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us that we may have relations with them.' But Lot went out to them at the doorway, and shut the door behind him, and said, 'Please, my brothers, do not act wickedly.'"
      • Lev 18:22-23: "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination."
      • Lev 20:13: "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death."
      • Cor 6:9: "Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals"
      • Tim 1:9-10: "realizing the fact that (civil) law is not made for a righteous man, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers"
      • Rom 1:26-27: "For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error."

      Now, I fully agree with you that the majority of anti-gay Christians are anti-gays who use the above passages to justify their bigotry, but hey, it's called bigotry for a reason.

      However, I'll have to challenge you to select other passages from the bible that contradict or refute the ones quoted above. Sure, that filthy hippy Jesus waffled some peacenik tree hugging propaganda about loving and forgiving sinners, but I don't recall him saying that it wasn't a sin.

      --
      If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
    9. Re:Why so discriminating? by Nuskrad · · Score: 4, Informative

      That's like taxing tampons or pads because they know that 50% of people need them.

      In the UK (and I believe the rest of the EU) they DO tax sanitary products. It took quite a lot of campaigning to get them placed in the 'reduced' rate of tax (5%) rather than the 'luxury' rate (currently 17.5%, soon to be 20%) as well. See here for example.

    10. Re:Why so discriminating? by QuantumRiff · · Score: 5, Insightful

      A guy in CA was collecting signatures for a bill to really protect the value and sanctity of marriage. He was trying to ban divorce.

      Strangely, not many of these people were willing to sign.

      --

      What are we going to do tonight Brain?
    11. Re:Why so discriminating? by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 4, Informative

      I'm not much to argue about the finer details of those particular scriptures; but I'd appreciate it if people recognized why Sodom and Gomorrah had to be expunged from the earth. The place was full of assholes! At one point they tortured some 11 year old girl to death for giving a starving man bread, because the girl was nice to someone (what a crime!). They tormented those in need. Any time someone new showed up, they turned a sadistic eye towards them immediately.

      I think this is the most important lesson here. They didn't come to "have sex with" the newcomers; they came to brutally rape them.

    12. Re:Why so discriminating? by supercrisp · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I know a guy who's a former rabbi and is currently a professor of religion. He told me that the Sodom and Gomorrah story is about hospitality law and not homosexuality. Basically, you don't just rape strangers. You take them in, feed them, and so on. Even offer them one (or some) of your women. He told me a lot more about it, but I'm afraid that I can't recall all of it. I'm not offering this as a counter-argument, just as a possible interesting avenue to consider.

    13. Re:Why so discriminating? by TheCarp · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I don't remember exactly how it came up, but a particular jewish friend of mine and I ended up talking about the Lot story.

      She was stunned to hear how Christians taught the story and pulled up the Torah, read the passage and pretty much translated it word for word the way I had it in the English. Then she became absolutely adamant that the intended meaning was that the men from the town wanted to beat the men up, not have sex with them.

      Her claim was that it was not about homosexuality but a city with gangs that didn't like outsiders. I can't say as I have studied it enough to have my own opinion, but that was her take on it.

      -Steve

      --
      "I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
    14. Re:Why so discriminating? by Rantastic · · Score: 5, Funny

      Sure, that filthy hippy Jesus waffled some peacenik tree hugging propaganda...

      Actually, Jesus was a tree killer, not a tree huger.

      Matthew 21:18: Early in the morning, as Jesus was on his way back to the city, he was hungry. Seeing a fig tree by the road, he went up to it but found nothing on it except leaves. Then he said to it, "May you never bear fruit again!" Immediately the tree withered.

      Just sayin

      --
      Ask Slashdot: Where bad ideas meet poor googling skills.
    15. Re:Why so discriminating? by ceoyoyo · · Score: 4, Funny

      The passages in liviticus are surprisingly clear for the bible. The Sodom and Gomorrah story doesn't necessarily have anything to do with homosexuality though. Trying to rape gods kid would surely qualify for extermination even if it weren't homosexual rape.

      This was actually a fun conversation I had with the local jehova's witness lady who seemed to think an unmarried guy living with female roommates was somehow at high risk for "catching gay" along with other seemingly incompatible sins.

    16. Re:Why so discriminating? by Taevin · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Language is defined through its use. It's undoubtedly true that the word "sodomy" holds the meaning it does because people used it to refer to some form of "sexual deviancy." Consider also how in modern times the phrase "begging the question" has all but lost its original meaning and now is a synonym for "raising the question." That it is now used incorrectly does not change the original meaning.

      Ironically, you're begging the question (petitio principii--assuming the initial point) with your argument. You're saying that 1. the word sodomy (modern) means "unnatural sex," 2. the word derives from the Latin meaning "sin of Sodom," 3. therefore the people of Sodom practiced sodomy. There's a disconnect there because you're assuming that the "sin of Sodom" is "unnatural sex," but this is an unproven claim.

      If the "sin of Sodom" is instead an extreme lack of hospitality, then the word sodomy should refer to that, but will still be used improperly to refer to "unnatural sex" (and homosexual sex in particular) because that is the common meaning. Just like begging the question.

  2. Still unfair.. by Pvt_Ryan · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Unmarried hetro couples are now discriminated against. They should get the same as the Gay/Lesbian couples, some people may not believe in marrage or may not want to get married for one reason or another. Why should they be forced to marry just to avoid a tax?

    1. Re:Still unfair.. by dingen · · Score: 5, Funny

      Just convince your employer that your girl is actually a dude. Photoshop could help out, but maybe it's not even needed.

      --
      Pretty good is actually pretty bad.
    2. Re:Still unfair.. by gutnor · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Marriage is a tax and legal affair. It is like creating a company or a trust with a business partner : Both of you can stay independent self-employed and do the same job but you will not get the same benefits. (and constraints)

      Marriage is the mechanism to subscribe to the benefits you feel discriminated against - just like filling you tax return. Marriage is not a declaration of Love or some blood pact before ${diety}, it is a legal contract and nothing more.
      The only real discrimination was to restrict this legal contract to people of specific sexual orientation.

    3. Re:Still unfair.. by Nyder · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Unmarried hetro couples are now discriminated against. They should get the same as the Gay/Lesbian couples, some people may not believe in marrage or may not want to get married for one reason or another. Why should they be forced to marry just to avoid a tax?

      Thats all "legal" marriage is. A tax break.

      Love has nothing to do with marriage, regardless what the world wants to believe.

      Sure, you can say marriage is the public commit process of your love. And maybe it is. But you have to go sign legal documents, that bonds you and your partner together, in a contract, that comes down to money.

      Get divorced? It's all about the money split.
      Partner goes into debt, oh ya, they just put you in debt also. legally.

      --
      Be seeing you...
    4. Re:Still unfair.. by Pharmboy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Indeed. To me, it would be fair if we simply got rid of all tax deductions for being married, children, home loan interest, etc. and just have an overall lower tax rate. I paid my home off by making sacrifices, yet I pay more taxes because I was responsible enough to do so. And why should I subsidize someone else's children? I don't have kids, so I pay yet higher taxes than those who decided to procreate. If you want kids, fine, have them, but a tax deduction for children is no different than me giving you a hand out for the effort.

      In a nutshell, I pay way more taxes because I am financially responsible and have no kids. And before those with kids (and deductions) say "But you don't understand how expensive it is to have kids", I would remind them that it was their choice, not mine, and there is no sense of fairness in me having to pay for part of raising their kids.

      --
      Tequila: It's not just for breakfast anymore!
    5. Re:Still unfair.. by nosferatu1001 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      No it is not, as the civil marriage laws have nothing relating to a religious observance in them.

      In fact civil partnerships have absolutely no "standard" wording at all, unlike civil marriages, meaning you can actively denounce religion if you want and it is fine (as long as the registrar doesnt panic, that is....) - we were told we could write our entire service if we wanted.

      Yes the nominal head is both State and Church, but the actual PM is purely a civil role.

    6. Re:Still unfair.. by forand · · Score: 4, Informative

      By and large I agree with you, however, you have benefited greatly from a society which chooses to educate children. So while I don't see why you should pay MORE to educate the children of the US I believe you should pay an equal share because the benefit is for society not just the parents.

  3. Paying straight people less, lawsuit? by frovingslosh · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Boy, do I see a lawsuit brewing here. How can they legally justify paying straight people less than gays, if all other factors are equal? I don't care about any tax issues. Does Google pay an apartment dweller more just because they don't get a mortgage write-off? Do they pay a single person more because he can't claim to be a head-of-household under IRS rules like a married person does? Do they pay a blind person less because they get two personal exemptions rather than one on their ISR 1040? If their pay policy doesn't address these and a lot more tax inequities, then I hope that they get sued big time for a pay policy that actually favors gays over straight people. In short, it's not for Google to start correcting the unfairness of the tax system, and to do so in a discriminatory manner that favors gays over straights just isn't right or smart.

    --
    I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
    1. Re:Paying straight people less, lawsuit? by bersl2 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      So, the government can discriminate on the basis of sexual orientation (prevent a same-sex couple from attaining the same marriage a differing-sex couple is entitled to), but a private-sector company cannot?

    2. Re:Paying straight people less, lawsuit? by lena_10326 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      OK. So, you are upset google is compensating gays in long term relationships for a tax code that is discriminatory against gays and you wish to eliminate unfair wages based on sexual orientation. So then by implication I can assume you are also wishing to legalize gay marriage so that we can eliminate the federal tax code discrimination against long term gay relationships in order to stamp out google's wage discrimination which is based on countering the federal tax code discrimination against gays?

      Hint: if you're against one form of sexual discrimination, then you MUST be against another form of sexual discrimination in order to maintain a consistent logical argument.

      --
      Camping on quad since 1996.
    3. Re:Paying straight people less, lawsuit? by frovingslosh · · Score: 4, Insightful

      So do you believe it is always OK for businesses to discriminate on the basis of sexual preference, or only do so when it favors homosexuals? I strongly suspect that you are a hypocrite and would be protesting any stated policy that advocated paying homosexuals less than straights rather than more.

      --
      I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
  4. Re:Andrew by r00t · · Score: 5, Funny

    Sure, why not? We tax alcohol and tobacco too. Are you suggesting that this is a sin tax error?

  5. Re:Well, heck! We can all be gay! by TheRaven64 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    That was pretty much my reading too. I think the correct solution is to give in to the Christians wanting the state not to recognise gay marriage and go a step further - the state should not recognise any kind of marriage. If you want to sign a contract for shared ownership of possessions and to cohabit with someone, that's possible without marriage law. If you want to get this agreement blessed by your favourite religion, that's not the state's business.

    --
    I am TheRaven on Soylent News
  6. not really, because everybody benefits by r00t · · Score: 4, Insightful

    No law can be defect-free, but consider the fact that every member of a Gay/Lesbian couple was once a child.

    Some mostly-correct assumptions are implicit in the law. Kids are known to do better in intact families. (even kids that grow up to be gay) Kids do better with a stay-at-home parent, traditionally the mom. Hetero couples generally produce kids. Legal issues related to kids (inheritance, etc.) are easier with a married couple.

    Even totally single people benefit from marriage-related tax breaks. Oh sure, having benefited as a child it would be mighty nice (totally selfish) to throw away the tax advantages for the generation that follows. Your childhood is comfy, and screw the next generation, hmmm?

    It's kind of like social security, moving wealth across generations. The kids are at least a good investment; they cost less and aren't just waiting around to die. Better food or additional at-home parental time would do some good.

    Think of the children, Gay ones included.

  7. Re:So Much For Employee Privacy! by barzok · · Score: 4, Informative

    What business does Google have to snoop into it's employee's sexual preferences?

    The employee would have to declare that they need domestic partner health benefits. Google isn't "snooping", it's information the employee is providing.

    What about Google employees who are straight who live with someone who they are not married, they going to see extra pay?

    If they qualify for domestic partner health benefits, I should think so.

  8. it hurts those it's intended to help by r00t · · Score: 4, Insightful

    European companies are really hesitant to hire people because it's so damn hard to get rid of people.

    Places that think they can get away with it will particularly avoid those who seem likely to take advantage of the benefits.

    WTF is with people thinking they should get paid for nothing and/or have a right to get back a job they abandoned for half a year? Everybody else at that company gets hurt, especially the substitute worker who'd really like to keep the job.

  9. God hates shrimp by AlterEager · · Score: 5, Funny
    1. Re:God hates shrimp by fractoid · · Score: 4, Funny

      Now you're just being shelfish.

      --
      Rampant carbon sequestration destroyed the Dinosaurs' tropical paradise. I'm here to help repair the damage.
    2. Re:God hates shrimp by nottheusualsuspect · · Score: 4, Funny

      Man, I really wish that you would stop trying to mussel your way into the conversation.

    3. Re:God hates shrimp by somersault · · Score: 4, Funny

      As long as you're not watching pr4wn

      --
      which is totally what she said
  10. Re:Andrew by icebraining · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Of course this screws over the non-married heterosexual couples

    But they can get married, so why don't they?

    If they don't want to get married, but think unmarried gay couples shouldn't get benefits they don't have, the solution is obvious: lobby for gay marriage.

  11. Re:So Much For Employee Privacy! by PoderOmega · · Score: 4, Informative

    There isn't an extra tax. Domestic partners health premiums cannot be paid pretax like a spouse or child's can. The part of the premium for the partner is considered income (imputed income).

  12. Re:Two wrongs don't make a right by hedwards · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It's not equivalent. In the vast majority of America, there is no same sex marriage or equivalent and in all of America there isn't a federally recognized union. Straight folks OTOH that are just in committed relationships have the option of getting married and collecting both the benefits as well as the responsibilities of being married. As long as it's not available to same sex couples it's not the same thing as choosing not to be.

    The other thing is that the couples end up more or less exactly where they would be were it not for a bunch of bigots refusing to grant equal rights under the law. Perhaps you should do some research rather than making bigoted claims over the internet. I assume that you're going to go back and ask David Duke what the rest of his argument goes like.

  13. God Hates Figs by GoodBuddy · · Score: 4, Funny

    Yes, this is the origin of the saying "God Hates Figs" The Westboro Baptist Church just got things messed up in their minds.